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Harrowstorms are an un fun pain and a step backwards compared to similar incarnations.

  • Sephyr
    Sephyr
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    An interesting difference on PC/NA:
    • SKYRIM Harrowstorms are up a long time, it takes some time to kill them, so there is usually enough time to reach them despite the long ride from wayshrines (assuming you have rapids and a max speed mount), but
    • BLACKREACH Harrowstorms die really fast. Unless you are actually camping at the site, there is no way to reach them in time, which is a pain if you are just trying to check off all the harrowstorm sites.
    Why is this? Is there a big health difference on the pikes above and below?

    There's no difference at least from what I've seen, but the reason why they go down so fast in Blackreach is that there are large groups gathering at the sites. I've counted anywhere from 20-35 players most of the time by the end of one down there.
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    Aliyavana wrote: »
    Biggest pain point for me is that the spawns of blackreach and the overland are shared

    According to this post by the lead dungeon/encounter developer, they are not.
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • SpiderKnight
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    Does the Harrowstorm daily reward drop motifs? This is the only reason I will do dailies, but as they are right now, I can't waste my time trying to get them done. Zos, unless you plan on fixing these, don't even bother adding a motif to the rewards.
  • AgaTheGreat
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    Harrowstorm wait time is longer than necessary and as entertaining as watching the grass grow.

    In short, they're rubbish.
    PS4 EU Aga_The_Grey - retired | PC EU AgaTheGreat
  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    Wing wrote: »
    the technical aspects of the encounter are fine, I have no doubt that the spent quite some time on them, and the mechanics are very nice.

    that is not the problem

    Then you haven't done them late at night when you're lucky to get 4 people to show up. One way Dragons were a step backwards from Geysers and Dolmens is that Dragons didn't adapt the amount of adds to the number of players present. Harrowstorms take this error and multiply it by orders of magnitude.

    Yeah, heck, even middle of the day on a saturday I just fought a Harrowstorm with a whole 3 people at start, 5 by the end (and I called it out in zone that it was spawning). Big numbers for a new patch lol.

    And my reward was a green ring of winter's respite and a 250gold treasure trash item, that's it. So all that work for essentially nothing.

    So why should I care about doing the time sink of a fight? I can get zone coffers in a fraction of the time doing the other easier quests, so it's not the coffer. You don't get a guarantee of the vamp style mat even, which you should. At this point I've just been doing them once on diff characters to complete them, I see no reason to do them consistently. Especially when if there is a zerg they are dead before you can chase one and if there isn't a zerg, much like a dragon, they are too annoying to bother with.
    -- @xaraan --
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  • kind_hero
    kind_hero
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    Fixing Harrowstorms is not enough...

    Take a look here:

    CyIXk4k.png

    I wonder if the devs really play their game, not just a playthrough, but doing dailies and chasing these storms.
    Because if they did, they would have seen those two wayshrines (red and purple) are to close to each other, while the North coast is missing a wayshrine.

    I get it, that area is remote and frozen, but this is not the single player Skyrim! You created dailies and achievements that require doing those delves/storms. If I get a daily with those delves, I just skip it.
    There should be one wayshrine near the giant's camp on the Northen shore.

    I really don't understand this poor wayshrine placement. The game is not new, this is not the first DLC...
    [PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter
  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    kind_hero wrote: »
    I really don't understand this poor wayshrine placement. The game is not new, this is not the first DLC...

    I think the most mind boggling thing is why are those two wayshrines so close together, when you can run between them in a straight line? And the fact that somebody spent hours designing that landscape, and not once thought, "You know, maybe one of these wayshrines might be redundant, and perhaps players will notice that I didn't put any wayshrines close to two harrowstorms, a world boss, and a trial!"


    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • SpacemanSpiff1
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    kind_hero wrote: »
    Fixing Harrowstorms is not enough...

    Take a look here:

    CyIXk4k.png

    I wonder if the devs really play their game, not just a playthrough, but doing dailies and chasing these storms.
    Because if they did, they would have seen those two wayshrines (red and purple) are to close to each other, while the North coast is missing a wayshrine.

    I get it, that area is remote and frozen, but this is not the single player Skyrim! You created dailies and achievements that require doing those delves/storms. If I get a daily with those delves, I just skip it.
    There should be one wayshrine near the giant's camp on the Northen shore.

    I really don't understand this poor wayshrine placement. The game is not new, this is not the first DLC...

    Gilliam has played over 400 days.
  • Hurbster
    Hurbster
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    I'm guessing one of those wayshrines is next to the new starting area ? That's the only reason I have for it being so close to the Dragonbridge one.
    So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.
  • BlueRaven
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    Hurbster wrote: »
    I'm guessing one of those wayshrines is next to the new starting area ? That's the only reason I have for it being so close to the Dragonbridge one.

    Yup.

    I am not upset over that close pairing, but the northern coast does need an additional wayshrine.
  • Wing
    Wing
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    kind_hero wrote: »
    Fixing Harrowstorms is not enough...

    Take a look here:

    CyIXk4k.png

    I wonder if the devs really play their game, not just a playthrough, but doing dailies and chasing these storms.
    Because if they did, they would have seen those two wayshrines (red and purple) are to close to each other, while the North coast is missing a wayshrine.

    I get it, that area is remote and frozen, but this is not the single player Skyrim! You created dailies and achievements that require doing those delves/storms. If I get a daily with those delves, I just skip it.
    There should be one wayshrine near the giant's camp on the Northen shore.

    I really don't understand this poor wayshrine placement. The game is not new, this is not the first DLC...

    Gilliam has played over 400 days.

    gilliam does numbers and parses, i doubt he has any say on wayshrine placement.
    ESO player since beta.
    full time subscriber.
    PC NA
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  • kind_hero
    kind_hero
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    kind_hero wrote: »
    Fixing Harrowstorms is not enough...

    Take a look here:

    CyIXk4k.png

    I wonder if the devs really play their game, not just a playthrough, but doing dailies and chasing these storms.
    Because if they did, they would have seen those two wayshrines (red and purple) are to close to each other, while the North coast is missing a wayshrine.

    I get it, that area is remote and frozen, but this is not the single player Skyrim! You created dailies and achievements that require doing those delves/storms. If I get a daily with those delves, I just skip it.
    There should be one wayshrine near the giant's camp on the Northen shore.

    I really don't understand this poor wayshrine placement. The game is not new, this is not the first DLC...

    Gilliam has played over 400 days.

    I meant if the devs play the new chapter, not the game in general, and if they do daily quests or hunt harrowstorms. Because if they did, they will feel the same about these wayshrines.
    [PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter
  • Hurbster
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    It's not as if there is no precedent for moving wayshrines, remember where the Mournhold one used to be ?
    So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.
  • deLioncourt
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    I gave up on harrowstorms after like..2 days.

    They're boring, too sparse, and the rewards suck.

    There's literally zero reason to do them.
  • Alphawolf01A
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    kind_hero wrote: »
    There should be a marker, similar to the dragons, so you can see which storm is up and if it's almost over (that was very good with dragons). It happens that I run to get there and by the time I arrive, the storm is over.

    As for a marker, If the harrowstorm symbol flashed red before it started and then solid red when it was running, that would be great.
  • Jaimeh
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    A lot of things in the new chapter felt hurried or with little thought put behind them, from the story to the trial, to the harrowstorms... at least they've added a couple of wayshrines, but still it's not a great design, especially compared to the dragons and geysers... I don't care about these achievements, but for people who'd like to get them, it will be kind of a pain.
  • MasterSpatula
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    Jaimeh wrote: »
    A lot of things in the new chapter felt hurried or with little thought put behind them, from the story to the trial, to the harrowstorms... at least they've added a couple of wayshrines, but still it's not a great design, especially compared to the dragons and geysers... I don't care about these achievements, but for people who'd like to get them, it will be kind of a pain.

    Adding the waysrines was helpful, but changing the daily to where you only need one to complete took one of the main "pain points' they said they were going to address and willfully made it worse: Now, significantly fewer people show up to any storm, which makes them completely nightmarish to complete. It now takes me significantly longer to complete one that it did to complete three a week ago.

    We're only a month out, and already seeing 6 people at a storm if you're a late-night player is what qualifies as a well-attended storm. Yeesh!

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: They need to go back to what they did with Geysers and make Harrowstorms react to the number and competence of players in a positive way, not in a negative way. And they desperately, desperately, desperately need the rewards to improve dramatically.

    Wayshrines can't fix the underlying problems of bad design decisions and downright cruelly-stingy rewards. Reducing the encouragement of players to do them only enhanced the underlying bad design decisions.
    "A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle
  • Jaraal
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    Jaimeh wrote: »
    A lot of things in the new chapter felt hurried or with little thought put behind them, from the story to the trial, to the harrowstorms... at least they've added a couple of wayshrines, but still it's not a great design, especially compared to the dragons and geysers... I don't care about these achievements, but for people who'd like to get them, it will be kind of a pain.

    Adding the waysrines was helpful, but changing the daily to where you only need one to complete took one of the main "pain points' they said they were going to address and willfully made it worse: Now, significantly fewer people show up to any storm, which makes them completely nightmarish to complete. It now takes me significantly longer to complete one that it did to complete three a week ago

    Yeah, this makes no sense to me. Why take away people's motivation to do the storms?

    Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms.

    I can see it becoming a new anthimeria: "Wow, we really harrowstormed that raid up! Should we try again, or give up?"
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • MasterSpatula
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    Jaraal wrote: »

    Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms.

    That's really well-put, since that's a list of three things they did well in previous content of this kind that they did the exact opposite of this time around.

    "A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle
  • SickleCider
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    I was waiting to reserve judgment, but this is all too right. The storms are too rare and the incentive just isn't there. I still regularly farm dragons. As it is my friend and I are just doing these when we happen to be next to a spawn to get the map clear. Also, Greymoor furnishings/motifs are almost as rare as Alinor stuff. It's ridiculous.
    ✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨
  • WastedJoker
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    With the new wayshrines, and the end of MYM, I'm hoping HS activity will pick up.

    I do think the rewards need to be looked at though; perhaps make HS drop survey maps?

    Let me guess, someone stole your sweetroll!
  • Greystag
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    ZOS_Finn wrote: »
    Hey Folks!

    Thanks for the feedback and we absolutely hear you on the core issues you mentioned. We are taking a look at the Harrowstorms and how to reduce some of the pain points.

    I love seeing answers like this so much instead of the usual Warning posts! Thanks for the engagement with the community, hope there's more!
    | PC / EU |
    | Aspen Greystag, Khajiit Warden, Frosty boi |
    | Healer, Tank, Damage dealer |
    | CP: 1800 |
    | Guilds: Officer at Meridia's Light |
  • Xaemyl
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    Harrowstorms themselves are fun, but I already have the achievements. I'm just waiting for the motif to drop, then I'm pretty much done as the "rewards" are beyond pathetic. So much wasted potential here.
  • Keledus
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    I dont think they're so bad

    The indicator is the huge storm you can see from miles away, the wayshrines aren't that far off really just max ur mount speed.

    I dont think they deliberately made it this way that wayshrines are abit more off from the activity. It's just the map design.
    Also why complain about this now when Elsweyr Dragons is even worse, their wayshrines are even further away.

    The rewards are abit underwhelming thats my only complaint.
    Been farming harrowstorms with a small team, they take quite abit longer and are more difficult than your dolmens and geysers.
    I dont think the difficulty is the problem, I like it.
    Dolmens are way too easy, so don't make harrowstorms easier ZOS. just give us abit more in rewards.

    Once they reward more, it'll be worth the extra travel time and effort.
    PC - EU
  • redlink1979
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    Thankfully we now just need to complete 1 harrowstorm for the daily quest.

    Rewards from harrowstorms should be a bit better, in quality n frequency.

    Regarding wayshrines: Western Skyrim isn't the only zone that was needing 1 or 2 wayshrines added. Northern Elsweyr needs at least 1 or 2 more.
    Edited by redlink1979 on July 7, 2020 11:10AM
    "Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"
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  • Raudgrani
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    Either they should be subject to some sort of predictable schedule like former similar things, or have some sort of indicator in the map when they are active.

    It sort of works now, because many people are kind enough to call them out as they "go up", but in a few months or so, this will likely not be the case.

    Speaking of these, the "Shrieke" seriously needs to get some counseling to fair play too. At the moment, he suddenly targets you from like 70 meters away, and instakills you without any sort of "telegraph" or whatever. He just strikes, and deals you like 15-25k damage in one go. I have only died to the Shrikes (maaaany times), and like twice or so to the Harrowstorm Titan because of his stun/flame waves (which is ok). That kind of mechanics shouldn't belong in the game, it's frankly not mechanics at all.
  • BRCOURTN
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    Hurbster wrote: »
    It's not as if there is no precedent for moving wayshrines, remember where the Mournhold one used to be ?

    I dont remember, and I've been playing since 2016. Where did it used to be located?
  • DreamsUnderStars
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    Harrowstorms have definitely become more of a PITA then they were at start.
  • MasterSpatula
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    BRCOURTN wrote: »
    Hurbster wrote: »
    It's not as if there is no precedent for moving wayshrines, remember where the Mournhold one used to be ?

    I dont remember, and I've been playing since 2016. Where did it used to be located?

    On an island outside the city, near where the Undaunted Enclave is now. Next time you load into Deshaan, look at the loading screen. It shows the shrine in its old location.
    "A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle
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