Harrowstorms are an un fun pain and a step backwards compared to similar incarnations.

Wing · June 2020

i will compare them to anchors, summerset geysers, and elsweyr dragons, morrowind didn't really have an incarnation of the mechanic, nor did wrothgar, relying more on more difficult world boss encounters.

1) wayshrines and travel time

for SOME reason it seems effort was made to deliberately place harrowstorm locations as far as possible from wayshrines, and i do mean deliberate. in fact it seems like ZOS was extra stingy with wayshrines this time around in general, usually when a company does this there is some $$$ idea behind it like paid fast travel or something, but as ESO (currently) lacks any such mechanic it seems done to just make it more of a pain?

if you compare to summerset it had an abundance of shrines around and many placed within a reasonable distance of world bosses and geysers. elsweyr may have slipped a little bit on this point but introduced a new more useful mechanic to make up for it. and one not even bring up popular dolmen farms in the base games that often have shrines right next to them for ease of access.

2) "any storm up?!"

summerset didn't have any indicator but as stated had an abundance of close wayshrines and short travel time. elsweyr started to slip in convenient shrine placement (aside from the NW dragon spawn that was right next to one) but did introduce the new mechanic of the dragon symbol on the map, that both alerted you to the fact that a dragon was about to land and if it was in progress changed when it went below half HP allow you to see what was in progress, and the state of the progress.

harrowstorms do NONE OF THIS. no indication that one is coming up (other then eyes on) no indication of where, no indication when one is in progress, or the state of that progress.

this combined with lack of wayshrines and long travel time make it very hard to communicate and participate in current storms, you end up sitting at empty storm locations hoping it will be next because even if another one does come up its very hard to get to it in time.

add to that the buggy inconsistent storm timers (some pop multiple times before others even pop once in half an hour)

this makes the entire harrowstorm system a pain, by the 5th daily done i am already sick of them (something that has NEVER happened in previous incarnations) its such a step backwards when this is the 4th incarnation of this type of system and should only be getting better, but like Cyro performance, we have only gone backwards from what was in the game at launch.

EDIT

3) rewards

rewards don't hold enough wait to merit doing them past the 90! required to do for the achievement, if you even care to do that many for it in the first place.

Ragged_Claw · June 2020

Yes, I think if they're going to be utterly random, some kind of zone telegraph or map marker would be extremely welcome. I've ridden for ages only to get to one just as it's gone down. Some people are helpfully saying how many witch spikes are still up, but it's hard to type and fight at the same time. Two were stuck above-ground tonight as well. I think a similar system to the dragons would be perfect or a zone telegraph saying 'a storm is brewing near...' and a meter so we can gauge whether it's worth going after. I gave up doing the dailies immediately and just join if I see one nearby. I want to quest and level up the antiquities, I don't want to stand like we did the other night for over an hour waiting for one to come up.

Wing · June 2020

Ragged_Claw wrote: »

Yes, I think if they're going to be utterly random, some kind of zone telegraph or map marker would be extremely welcome. I've ridden for ages only to get to one just as it's gone down. Some people are helpfully saying how many witch spikes are still up, but it's hard to type and fight at the same time. Two were stuck above-ground tonight as well. I think a similar system to the dragons would be perfect or a zone telegraph saying 'a storm is brewing near...' and a meter so we can gauge whether it's worth going after. I gave up doing the dailies immediately and just join if I see one nearby. I want to quest and level up the antiquities, I don't want to stand like we did the other night for over an hour waiting for one to come up.

yup, the dragon system was FANTASTIC and im terribly sad to see that such an informative tool was tossed aside.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · June 2020

The game, like most games, has at least some mechanics that are all about making people wait. While you are waiting to do content, you are not grinding it to boredom and burning out on it, and if you are forced to do things slowly, the new content they develop will last longer before people stop playing.

I'm not saying it's particularly bad in ESO, or even that it's necessarily bad in general to slow people down a bit when they are playing a game, but it is most assuredly by design. The clear and informative announcement of active dragons on the Elsweyr maps made that content too quick and efficient. It became less of a social hunt and more of a well coordinated slaughter assisted by an efficient information system.

Having us waiting, not having complete information, and talking about that amongst ourselves, makes good sense for the developers, and I'd say it really doesn't take away from the fun for us.

On a much related note, I'm disappointed in the passive from the new skill lines that makes treasure chests shine like beacons. I was bad at spotting them, but that was the whole point. Next step up in obviousness would be to have them spin and bob up and down in the air with shiny sparkles, figuratively shouting "look at me". Some games do it like that. I like that at least some things are low key and not blindingly obvious in ESO. We'll see if it lasts.

Arunei · June 2020

@stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO
You do know you don't have to take a passive just because it's there, right? If you wanted chests to stay hard to find why would you take a passive that does the exact opposite? The only reason it's 'blindingly obvious' is because you put points into a passive that exists literally to do that. You even said you were bad at finding them before, then turn around and say you like it when things aren't obvious like they are in ESO. It can't go both ways.

As for the Harrowstorms themselves, there is no reason for people to sit and sit and sit and wait for these things to pop, especially since there's apparently an issue with them sometimes not even actually fully activating, they just partially start and then sit there. Harrowstorms are also part of a daily, and plenty of people have limited play time every day. A lot of people won't have the time to sit here waiting for these things to spawn. It would have made more sense to have them be like Dragons, where numerous ones can spawn at a time, than it is to have it so only one Harrowstorm can be going on at a time. At least then it would help with people not having to smash their faces against their keyboards in frustration.

max_only · June 2020

Incoming!

“Trophy generation wants everything handed to them, back in my day it was a privilege to wait 2 hours to fight and then immediately die and lose all your stuff, this game is too easy as it is”

Did I get that right?

Eifleber · June 2020

The thing is that there's so much to do in this game. If I had the option between waiting for a harrowsytorm for 20 minutes or do something similar rewarding but with immediate access the choice is easy.

When the next expansion arrives, nobody is going to do Harrowstorms anymore.
Look at the N Elsweys dragons with their easy visibility on the map, except the one close to the wayshrine.
Puzzling that ZOS didn't draw any conclusions from that.

edit: I do like the Harrowstorms themselves.
*

kind_hero · June 2020

There should be a marker, similar to the dragons, so you can see which storm is up and if it's almost over (that was very good with dragons). It happens that I run to get there and by the time I arrive, the storm is over.

merevie · June 2020

I just spent 30 minutes at one with mostly new players then left. They were 99% dead most of the time.
Last time I did one there was almost no reward -am I missing something here?
What's the point?

wild_kmacdb16_ESO · June 2020

merevie wrote: »

I just spent 30 minutes at one with mostly new players then left. They were 99% dead most of the time.
Last time I did one there was almost no reward -am I missing something here?
What's the point?

There are achievements attached to them and you get a chance at one of the new motifs from doing the daily. Aside from that, probably not much point unless you like getting 1 shot killed from stuff that is very hard to see and react to.

DarcyMardin · June 2020

I have yet to do one. Never even seen one close up. Too much other stuff to do in game than to loiter around a harrowstorm site waiting for some action. Very disappointing.

Jaraal · June 2020

Why they decided to put two different pairs of wayshrines within seconds of each other, but absolutely zero wayshrines on the northern coast will be one of the most mind boggling mysteries of the game for all time.

Ashryn · June 2020

Frankly...the Developers were praised for introducing the new map signals for dragon fights by plenty of players. Why would they not do that for these kind of activities with each new chapter? I've done about 3 Harrowstorms so far and I doubt I will continue with any more unless I actually almost trip over one! I can do without the motifs (that the daily gives) and won't buy it, either, if it makes an appearance in the Crown Store.

Kadoin · June 2020

Wow, it's almost as if your criticism echoes EXACTLY what was said in the IGN review.

Wing · June 2020

Kadoin wrote: »

Wow, it's almost as if your criticism echoes EXACTLY what was said in the IGN review.

really? I don't read or trust reviews from companies anymore.

BlueRaven · June 2020

Wing wrote: »

i will compare them to anchors, summerset geysers, and elsweyr dragons, morrowind didn't really have an incarnation of the mechanic, nor did wrothgar, relying more on more difficult world boss encounters.

1) wayshrines and travel time

for SOME reason it seems effort was made to deliberately place harrowstorm locations as far as possible from wayshrines, and i do mean deliberate. in fact it seems like ZOS was extra stingy with wayshrines this time around in general, usually when a company does this there is some $$$ idea behind it like paid fast travel or something, but as ESO (currently) lacks any such mechanic it seems done to just make it more of a pain?

if you compare to summerset it had an abundance of shrines around and many placed within a reasonable distance of world bosses and geysers. elsweyr may have slipped a little bit on this point but introduced a new more useful mechanic to make up for it. and one not even bring up popular dolmen farms in the base games that often have shrines right next to them for ease of access.

2) "any storm up?!"

summerset didn't have any indicator but as stated had an abundance of close wayshrines and short travel time. elsweyr started to slip in convenient shrine placement (aside from the NW dragon spawn that was right next to one) but did introduce the new mechanic of the dragon symbol on the map, that both alerted you to the fact that a dragon was about to land and if it was in progress changed when it went below half HP allow you to see what was in progress, and the state of the progress.

harrowstorms do NONE OF THIS. no indication that one is coming up (other then eyes on) no indication of where, no indication when one is in progress, or the state of that progress.

this combined with lack of wayshrines and long travel time make it very hard to communicate and participate in current storms, you end up sitting at empty storm locations hoping it will be next because even if another one does come up its very hard to get to it in time.

add to that the buggy inconsistent storm timers (some pop multiple times before others even pop once in half an hour)

this makes the entire harrowstorm system a pain, by the 5th daily done i am already sick of them (something that has NEVER happened in previous incarnations) its such a step backwards when this is the 4th incarnation of this type of system and should only be getting better, but like Cyro performance, we have only gone backwards from what was in the game at launch.

You forgot to add the rewards for the storms being close to pointless as well. I am doing them for the achievements and then that's it.

I remember happily farming dragons for many evenings, the harrow storms? No thank you.

Wing · June 2020

BlueRaven wrote: »

You forgot to add the rewards for the storms being close to pointless as well. I am doing them for the achievements and then that's it.

I remember happily farming dragons for many evenings, the harrow storms? No thank you.

true, ill edit that in, once I get the 30 dailies done, im out too.

Noxavian · June 2020

Ashryn wrote: »

Frankly...the Developers were praised for introducing the new map signals for dragon fights by plenty of players. Why would they not do that for these kind of activities with each new chapter? I've done about 3 Harrowstorms so far and I doubt I will continue with any more unless I actually almost trip over one! I can do without the motifs (that the daily gives) and won't buy it, either, if it makes an appearance in the Crown Store.

you have to keep in mind these are the same devs/designers that think a vampire ability that literally just kills yourself on a toggle in exchange for some attack power is the "pinnacle" of what it means to be a vampire in the Elder Scrolls.

...And in that same clip, right as they say that, they run into a normie NPC vamp conjuring a swarm of bats to attack the player.

After hearing and seeing that, I believe it is safe to say the devs can do just about anything. Illogical or not.

Tigerseye · June 2020

I totally agree, they're awful.

...and I say this as someone who did dragons a lot.

redspecter23 · June 2020

If ZOS was intending for the Harrowstorms up top to be a dead zone in 2 months (or less), then mission accomplished. Doing the daily is much easier down below even when you factor in that you may not make it in time. I park myself at miners or dwarf and then run/port to whichever one comes up next. Repeat until 3 are done. If you get a long load screen, you're out of luck.

It creates a level of frustration where I can't afford to slow down at all. Instant port (and pay for it). Run as fast as possible, skipping anything else in the way. Not even a chance to enjoy the scenery. My alternative is to camp one and hope it comes up but it might be an hour as there is no set rotation.

Yes, it appears as though through a combination of accidents and intent, ZOS has made this a massive pain.

Tigerseye · June 2020

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

While you are waiting to do content, you are not grinding it to boredom

Of course you are.

The wait is part of the grind...

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Having us waiting, not having complete information, and talking about that amongst ourselves, makes good sense for the developers, and I'd say it really doesn't take away from the fun for us.

Yes it does - it really, really does.

Plus, they're not fun, anyway.

Wing · June 2020

redspecter23 wrote: »

If ZOS was intending for the Harrowstorms up top to be a dead zone in 2 months (or less), then mission accomplished. Doing the daily is much easier down below even when you factor in that you may not make it in time. I park myself at miners or dwarf and then run/port to whichever one comes up next. Repeat until 3 are done. If you get a long load screen, you're out of luck.

It creates a level of frustration where I can't afford to slow down at all. Instant port (and pay for it). Run as fast as possible, skipping anything else in the way. Not even a chance to enjoy the scenery. My alternative is to camp one and hope it comes up but it might be an hour as there is no set rotation.

Yes, it appears as though through a combination of accidents and intent, ZOS has made this a massive pain.

i actually feel up top will be dead in less then a month, as everyone is starting to figure out that storms are faster in black reach.

there are just to many locations to far from shrine on to random of timers.

dragons had 3 "zones" of influence, one right next to a shrine, and even taking their symbol out of the equation were on a predictable rotation.

there are TEN storm sites across TWO maps with NO close wayshrines (and the north coast of west skyrim is a particular joke) on a completely random drop timer with no warning.

they clearly don't test these kinds of things as players, and spent time just designing the encounter itself rather then all the tertiary interactions that go along with it:

-spawn time
-spawn alert or tracking
-shrine proximity / travel time
-spawn rotation
-rewards
-etc.

the only details we got about them were combat related.

Iccotak · June 2020

My idea for a unique dolmen system

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/507715/new-dolmen-activity-siege-defense

mav1234 · June 2020

I like the Harrowstorms themselves but believe they are a massive step back from dragons.

Bryath · June 2020

This sounds awful.

Between this, antiquities that try to make me do stuff I don't wanna do, suck-tastic vampires, and a questline I can win by pressing 1-1-1-1... I couldn't be much more bummed about Greymoor.

Nemesis7884 · June 2020

we can talk about the rewards, but otherwise i think they are awesome

Batgirl · June 2020

The most rewarding things the harrowstorms drop, and the main reason why im doing them, are the new vampire furniture recipes.
But the drop rate is painfully low, storms are far away from wayshrine - in fact especially the northern Coast and black reach ones seem to be placed deliberately to force People into horse riding simulator

That combined with totally random spawns, no indication on map, and either 50 People killing it in matters of second (in blackreach - honestly, no idea how new players without rapid maneuvers and low lvl horse could get there in time traveling from wayshrine) or just 2-3 showing up, being unable to finish Storm or taking forever at horribly placed northern ones creates a rather unpleasant experience.

Jaraal · June 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

we can talk about the rewards, but otherwise i think they are awesome

The storms themselves are awesome, I don't think anyone is complaining about the combat interaction. And the addition of mechanics (focus on the ghosts, people) is a nice touch. It's just everything else about them that could have been implemented better that folks are upset about.

redspecter23 · June 2020

I'm wondering if ZOS just assumes that all players have a maximum speed mount with rapids available for these world events. I sometimes forget myself as my toons have all had max speed for a while, but as a new player it must feel horrible to be so much slower and basically not even have a chance of participating in what I assume is the intended way of waiting for a shout out for the next spawn by a camper and porting/sprinting full speed to get there.

Hurbster · June 2020

Agreed, it's bad enough on a max speed mount with rapids. With a new character on a slow mount, it's physically painful. Western Skyrim is not new character friendly, IMO.

Still, there is always the crown store...

Wing · June 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

we can talk about the rewards, but otherwise i think they are awesome

the technical aspects of the encounter are fine, I have no doubt that the spent quite some time on them, and the mechanics are very nice.

that is not the problem

its the supporting structure around them as I have listed further above:
-spawn time
-spawn alert or tracking
-shrine proximity / travel time
-spawn rotation
-rewards