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Is using Ad-ons is cheating?

  • thorwyn
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    So two people starting at the same time and playing roughly the same way the person who has ESO+ will have an "up" on the other person.

    The same applies to people, who are playing on different hardware or internet connections. That's not cheating though.
    Both players have the opportunity to eqzalize any disadvantage by getting better hardware, upgrading their connection or subscribing to Eso+ or installing the AddOn(s) too.
    A cheat gives you an illegally achieved advantage that the other side can not even out without using illegal ressources.
    Just my 5c. :)
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  • Dusk_Coven
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    thorwyn wrote: »
    Is an ESO+ subscription cheating? Think of all the advantages over those people who might not have access to Cloudrest or Sunspire, let alone an infinite crafting bag.

    That's a tricky question because it probably involves what is practical in marketing. DLC access in ESO+ is probably a marketing concession. Imagine new players coming into the game now and you tell them you must buy this that and the other expansion to have the full game. They'd balk at it when they already have to buy the base game.
    What ESO+ is with respect to DLCs is a type of rental plan that doesn't detract from the current promotion. Whether you buy the expansion later or not is up to you but for a lower up front cost you can access the "whole game" (that is, everything except what they're trying to sell at the moment, which for 2019 is Elsweyr).

    The infinite Crafting Bag, though is another story. That said, I believe many people make do "without it" -- that is, they just survive in between the ESO+ free trials with alt mules. There are a lot of strategy posts on the internet.
    For people WITH ESO+ looking at these people who can make do without it by using ESO+ free trials -- subscribers might in fact FEEL those people are the "cheaters". The *feeling* that these people are getting around the subscription doesn't make them cheaters necessarily though.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on October 10, 2019 5:39AM
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  • ccfeeling
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    It's cheating definitely .

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  • Vhozek
    Vhozek
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    Is using the C-stick in Smash cheating?
    lmao
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  • mocap
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    Long story short - in PvE no one cares about what you using. Not so in PvP.

    imo, cheating can be harmful and peaceful. Any type of "ez mod" addons like crafting helpers, map pins, combat alerts etc are cheats, peaceful though. Any type of combat alert addons in PvP are harmful, unless everyone using them.
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  • preevious
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    When everyone on a platform has free access to them, it's obviously not cheating.

    I mean, if you bring a knife to a gun fight, you don't lose because your opponents have guns ... you lose because you have a knife though guns are available.

    Now, if console players (no mods) and PC players (mods) were to all be on a single server, then yes, it would be unfair.

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  • FierceSam
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    No
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  • Env_t
    Env_t
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    Env_t wrote: »
    Davor wrote: »
    Bethesda considers ad-ons as cheating

    proof? any official Bethesda quote pls
    right now i can find only this
    and its far away from what you said
    2AUrRpK.png

    so OP, will you answer to my post?
    or nothing to say?
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  • Banana
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    No. Go back to console if unhappy
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  • EmEm_Oh
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    Wat8.jpg?1315930535

    I can understand why woman in picture was cheated on.

    I think.
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  • TQSkull
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    Davor wrote: »
    Let's please keep this civil and have a friendly debate. I just like to have a friendly discussion. Being a friendly debate we need to respect everyone's opinion. Thing is we don't need to agree to other people's opinion but respect it non the less since many millions have dies so we can have rights for different opinions. So we can RESPECTFULLY disagree. :) Thing is if we "need to prove someone wrong" then address what the person said and not just give examples of what the person didn't say and or deflect what the person is trying to say.

    At first, I thought, no, ad-ons are not cheating because it just makes my game enjoyable. So I never though of it again until Fallout 76. For some reason, Bethesda considers ad-ons as cheating and Zenimax Online Doesn't. Wierd, but OK, what ever. I respectfully disagree with Bethesda and many players of Fallout 76 who say ad-ons is cheating.

    Having an open mind, even when I disagree with other people's opinion, I still try to understand why they think like that. I play Fallout 76 as if it was a single player game just like I do in ESO. After the year has gone by, I have dabbed in a bit with ESO multiplayer because of events, and just finally did play with another person in Fallout 76. My view has seemed to change a bit.

    While my stance on Ad-ons or mods what ever you want to call it, when playing a single player game ad-ons/mods don't matter. Play how you want. So I thought this was weird in Fallout 76, since many people say that ad-ons are "quality of life" issues and or fixes and I agreed. After all, anything to add fun or make something fun and not unfun/frustrating is always good. Thing is people on the Fallout 76 forums still said Quality of Life ad-ons/mods are still cheats but never explain how. So it took me a year to figure it out.

    After playing ESO on PC I went back to console to see how it was. My god. It was tough. No mini map. No visuals on the screen or placed where I want them. No this or that. So I went back to PC ESO since it was more enjoyable because of the Quality of Life fixes. Then like I said I finally did some playing with other people. Only then I noticed how some QoL issues changed the screen when people are in PvP lands with groups. Then I go back to console and try it and then that is when it hit me. QoL issues are a cheat in any game where people play with each other especially in PvP.

    What are QoL issues say a mini map is a cheat. On consoles where there is no ability to have a mini map, that is an ADVANTAGE since the person who has a mini map doesn't have to stop what they are doing and have a giant map blocking their screen. While not a big deal in my opinion, any advantage is a cheat. Now we have ad-ons/mods that let numbers go off to the side. Is this a cheat? Well it does give an advantage since it's not cluttering the screen and it could help others to have those numbers on the side and read them better.

    Same for ad-ons that allow to show members of your group that people who don't use ad-ons or console players don't have access to, get an advantage that can actually be of use.

    Since in my opinion, Quality of Life issues make a game easier to play, that is an advantage, no matter how small, is an advantage over someone who doesn't use it. So any advantage no matter how small is a cheat.

    Now my question is, why do we keep saying on ESO forums that they are not a cheat but Quality of Life issues? Is it because we don't want to be considered cheaters? We are using 3rd party software that wasn't intended in the game. Doesn't matter if the mini map is in the game, Zenimax Online for what ever reason doesn't have it activated and console users can't activate it, so it's an advantage no matter what. So it's a cheat. I didn't like calling myself a cheater, but now I realize, doesn't matter if I don't call myself a cheater, I am because I am using ad-ons. I have an advantage when I play on PC because I use ad-ons and can't use them on console.

    Now for sure we can say ad-ons that show where skyshards, books, what ever is cheating. It makes your character more powerful faster than someone who doesn't know where to find them without looking at the spot on the map. That is a blatant cheat. It's cheating when PC and or console users look on the internet for the answer as well.

    I hope I have explained myself. I very well can be wrong and I can admit when I am wrong. Let's have a fun friendly discussion. Is there really an right or wrong answer? After all we all have differing opinions so opinions in most cases can't be wrong. After all is someone wrong for wanting to eat sardines out of a can while walking down the street? Is someone wrong for wanting anchovies on their pizza? Well 1+1=2 so if someone says otherwise would be wrong UNLESS they show how it's not.

    TL;DR

    So is ad-ons cheating? If not give reasons why. Please respect everyone's opinion even if you disagree.

    Yes, Add-ons are cheating. We will all be banned soon.
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  • redlink1979
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    Addons are a short cut imo. Some of them are great/useful (QoL improvements) and should be added to the base game since they would benefit all the players.
    Only amazes me the fact that some of them were never even considered to be added to base game even if all the players could benefit from their functionality.

    As a console player I would like to have these, at least, added to base game:

    - auto repair gear if the player is carrying repair tool kits in the inventory.
    - auto recharge your weapons if the player is carrying soul gems in the inventory.
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  • Bam_Bam
    Bam_Bam
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    troll thread.
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  • Donny_Vito
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    MrGhosty wrote: »
    Donny_Vito wrote: »
    There are addons that can improve buff/debuff visibility. In extreme cases this gets dismissed as, "it tells you when to do everything." Thing is, it's only relaying information you have access to, and putting it in your face.

    Same is true for things Raid Notifier. Raid Notifier cannot give you any information you couldn't get on your own (Except: for telling you the correct names for certain actions. Know what Storm of the Heavens is? You'll find out if you run vAS with Raid Notifier turned on. You could see the ability before, but now you'll have it on your screen.)

    I think the only valid argument I see against this is that you're not using the combat and mechanics for how it was designed. Meaning, the intent is for you to look around the fight and identify mechanics as they come. It sorta defeats that purpose when every mechanic is written on your screen. Do I think it's cheating? No, ZoS allows it. But I do think it makes you an inferior player since you have to rely on additional help to beat a fight.

    After having used notifier, I would actually argue that I've become a better player than I was before. Taking into account latency, some effects don't even show on my screen sometimes. The game really only tells you what kills you, but if you don't know what effects are named what can also make it difficult to narrow down when you should dodge, block, tank or kite. Saying players who use notifiers are inferior to those who do not is about as silly as saying people who used stone tools were obviously inferior to the ones using wooden implements. Add-ons are tools and if they are available and you want to use them you should. Or I suppose in group content people also aren't allowed to call out mechanics either, cuz that would make players inferior?

    Thank you for the straw man argument there, but I don't think it serves any purpose at all. Team communication and coordination are not the same thing as someone using add-ons and I'm not even sure why you'd make that argument.
    Edited by Donny_Vito on October 10, 2019 3:07PM
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  • mague
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    Davor wrote: »
    Since in my opinion, Quality of Life issues make a game easier to play, that is an advantage, no matter how small, is an advantage over someone who doesn't use it. So any advantage no matter how small is a cheat.

    Add-ons are NOT cheating. The API is from the devs.

    But they give an advantage. QoL add-ons like daily alchemist are nice but not game changing. But something like Action Duration Reminder are a huge sustain boost and sort of game changer. There are maybe more, but this is the only i use.

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  • sudaki_eso
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    Hmmm, cheating? No. I would love to use some on the ps4 just because they make life in eso easier, just for convenience. Its more like activating easy mode, espcially if you use add ons that will tell you when do block and what to do, but its certainly not cheating - imho.
    Edited by sudaki_eso on October 10, 2019 11:55AM
    PS4 EU - StamDK
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  • VaranisArano
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    Davor wrote: »
    Davor wrote: »
    Jhalin wrote: »
    Imagine walking into an open note test and saying everyone’s notes were cheating because you failed to bring your notes.

    That’s the OP

    How is that? Just because you say so doesn't make it so. Again, give examples as I said before to show how someone is wrong. In this case how am I wrong? Just trying to shame? I don't understand what you ment. Love an explanation. :)

    Its an analogy. PC and Console are two different classrooms. PC gets an open note test. Console gets a closed note test (thanks to their Console providers not providing PTS, ESO Logs, or add-ons). Everyone knew that ahead of time when they bought ESO for their platform.

    On the PC Open note test, everyone is allowed to have their notes out to get answers. There are no extra prizes for not bringing your notes except for maybe feeling smug that "I didnt need my notes, even though they were totally allowed." If you call students using their notes "cheaters", they are going to laugh, because its an open note test. Notes are 100% allowed, and your grade isn't somehow more valid because you didnt use your notes. In fact, if you missed answers because you didnt use your notes, its a valid question to ask "You know its an open note test, right?"

    Tank you for this. You mean open book test. I never herd of open note test. OK this makes sense now. Never herd that expression before. For us in Ontario at least back in the day it was "open book test". We hardly ever had them. Notes were on paper and were never allowed to be brought. This is why it seemed so weird for me.

    Well here is one. Not sure how it is else where in the world, but here in Canada, or at least in Ontario, if we win a prize we need to answer a skill testing question with no help with any device, digital or what ever or have someone help us and need to do it on our own in a specific amount of time.

    Other parts of the world they can use a calculator if they need to answer a question to get a prize. Is it a cheat? No, because it is allowed, BUT for me it would be an "unfair" advantage though because I don't get to use the calculator.

    I curious, what would be the proper term, or wording we should use? Playing the same game with different rules. Unfair? Unfair advantage?

    There's just no point in comparing the two tests.

    The way I see it, and I am not saying you are wrong just to show my opinion and at least understand why I am thinking this. Reason I see there is comparing is because I believe when some people say "git gud" or others I have seen said "use this app it will help you in combat" and most times people will say "I am on console" or others just don't want to use apps and play the game on how Zenimax Online wants us to.


    So how is it fair for someone using ad-ons and then tell someone get better only because they use it? For people who don't do this, which is most I believe, it's a non issue but I do laugh at a person who thinks they are good just because they use an ad-ons that helps them and without it, they can't play as good.

    I play better on PC because I have ad-ons I use, but on console game is a bit harder because of no ad-ons. That is why I feel like I am cheating on PC. Even if it's legal, it does for me feel like cheating. When I get all the achievements for finding the skyshards, it feels good, but knowing I need to look at Google or someone using an ad-on, it doesn't feel good for me because they needed help to find it.

    Nothing wrong to cheat in single player games because it ads fun to the game. Thing is once SOMEONE does try and tell someone else to get better is using an ad-on that is different. That is getting help not on your own.


    Just to make clear which it seems I didn't do, I am not calling anyone a cheater, saying it is cheating and we shouldn't do it. For me, at that moment of time, I felt I was, and then got thinking were the people on the other forum correct after all, when I was in the shoes of the camp saying "it's not cheating". Were they correct after all?

    Doesn't matter, I just thought we all could have a good conversation and talk about something different for once. Surprised we didn't have anyone say "nerf sorcerers" or "stop nerfing things". Nice to discuss something else for once.

    :smiley:

    I'm going to drop the Open Note/Open Book test analogy, since I suspect its not super helpful at this point, amd speak directly to the situation at hand.

    I get that your issue is that you went from console to PC and now you feel like its cheating for you to use add-ons.

    I also get that you really hate other players telling people to "git gud" in general and it annoys you that PC players say that to console players when PC players can use add-ons.

    Those are two separate issues and I'm going to address them as such.


    1. PC vs Console "Cheating"
    On Console, no one has access to add-ons and so everyone is on a level playing field.
    On PC, everyone has access to add-ons and so everyone is on a level playing field.

    PC and Console arent even playing on the same field. Ever! PC has huge advantages over console because of PTS Access and ESO Logs, even before we talk about add-ons. (I have an earlier comment explaining those advantages in greater detail.)

    So when you swapped from Console to PC, you swapped from an environment where no one has access to add-ons to one where everyone has access to add-ons.

    Were you cheating? No. You remained on a level playing field with the people you were playing with. (Unless you self-impose a challenge of not playing with add-ons, but ESO doesnt award prizes for that.)

    Did it feel like you were cheating?
    Sure. You went from Vanilla ESO to Non-Vanilla ESO and didn't take into account that everyone on PC has the opportunity to play Non-Vanilla ESO. I'm not surprised you felt like you were cheating, even though ZOS allows you to use addons and you remained on a level playing field by using add-ons on PC.

    That's your feeling. Its subjective, applies only to you, and isnt relevant to any other player who's on PC using add-ons as allowed by ZOS.


    2a. "Git Gud" PC vs Console
    First off, there's no point in comparing PC and Console. Not for you, and not for anyone who wants to say "git gud" or "you're playing wrong." That's because PC has huge advantages in PTS Access, ESO Logs, and add-ons. PC players are so far ahead of Consoles thanks to the PTS and ESO Logs alone that its not even funny - and that's thanks to ZOS and the Console providers.

    (To briefly dip back into the testing analogy, imagine that the PC students get to see the final exam in a pretest (PTS Access), get to review the test to check their errors (ESO Logs), and get to use their notes/Book on the test itself (add-ons.) Console players dont get anything. There's no comparing those test scores!)

    There's a reason why PC and Console Players don't compete. It's stupid to even try to compare PC and Console because they arent at all on a level playing field and never will be. Any PC Player claiming that a Console player should "git gud" is foolishly denying the threefold advantages that PC Players have: PTS Access, ESO Logs, and Add-ons.


    2b. "Git Gud" and "you're playing wrong" in general.
    Davor, I know this annoys you from previous conversations.

    If I recall previous conversations correctly, you also don't do much in the way of PVE group content or PVP. I remember a fairly recent conversation in which I had to explain to you what a "fake tank" was and why it might be annoying to group members to have a "tank" who was refusing to hold aggro on the bosses.

    I'll be honest. Overland and non-grouped content is easy and there's no point to telling someone they are doing it "wrong". Crafting? LOL.

    However, if you don't play PVE group content or PVP, you aren't likely going to see when it's appropriate to tell someone "you are doing this wrong." Obviously, it ought to be done politely, but there are times its 100% appropriate.

    Example: When I tell you to follow mechanics in a PVE dungeon/trial or we are going to wipe again, that's not a suggestion. If you don't follow the mechanics and you die, you were playing the game wrong. And it will be obvious to everyone watching.

    Example: When someone is struggling with dying quickly in PVP because they are wearing their PVE gear, they are playing the game wrong. They need to adjust how they play and what gear they wear to be apropriate for a PVP zone, i.e. more health, more resistances, and impenetrable trait gear. (There's lots of examples in PVP.)

    Do note that neither of those has anything to do with add-ons. That's right. Its entirely possible to play Vanilla ESO wrong.

    So my advice to you when you see someone telling someone else "You are playing ESO wrong" is to consider "Is this an appropriate time to tell someone they are playing the game wrong?" And if it's a part of the game you don't play often, like PVP or group PVE, consider that you may not have the experience to know that for yourself and you probably shouldnt immediately jump to the conclusion that its inappropriate. Just because it annoys you to hear someone told "you're playing the game wrong" doesnt mean that they aren't, in fact, playing the game wrong.


    Hope,that helps clarify some things.
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  • Kuramas9tails
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    AS A CONSOLE PLAYER.........

    Naw. I don't consider most add-ons to be cheating. The only issues I have with add-ons are the ones who give you all the information up front without the players having to adventure out themselves or do it themselves:

    Example:

    - Add-ons who give you the direct location of every heavy sack/chest in game without you FIRST having to find them yourself.

    - Any add-ons that give you a distinct advantage over other players (I only heard of one from PC PVP but I think it was taken down?)

    - Anything that automatically does something for you like resets your buffs.

    I am on console so I don't know the full list of add-ons but these are just examples I can think of that may or may not be actual add-ons.

    P.S. Still salty about PC players who abused their one add-on that got Clever Alchemist nerfed to the ground and ruined it for console players.
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    • Zer0_CooL
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      only if you play on console
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    • idk
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      Raideen wrote: »
      idk wrote: »
      Raideen wrote: »
      idk wrote: »
      Raideen wrote: »
      I don't think addons are cheating perse, but they do give an advantage over those who do not or CAN NOT use them (low PC specs).

      IMO, the addons that become mandatory to use should be baked into the factory UI to balance the playing field.

      Those with low PC specs are at a disadvantage in most MMORPGs as it is. Slower response is deadly. When the indication of the area effect is not showing up until a couple seconds later that is a disadvantage.

      Your post is 100% irrelevant to the discussion.

      If an addon becomes so used that it becomes necessary in order to play the game, it should be baked into the UI.

      Thank you for replying, always nice to see you and correct your mistakes.

      So you make a comment about the disadvantage of those who cannot use addons due to low PC specs and when I essentially agree with you and state they are normally at a disadvantage for multiple reasons my comment is irrelevant to the discussion. Hmm

      You are cherry picking my post out of context, hence why your comment is irrelevant.

      Odd how you choose to argue over this when my comment was not squabbling over anything you said, essentially agreeing with that one point. It seems more like you just want to argue with me for the sake of it.
      Edited by idk on October 10, 2019 2:03PM
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    • idk
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      Only amazes me the fact that some of them were never even considered to be added to base game even if all the players could benefit from their functionality.

      Zos had developed a UI that was more akin to what we find it major MMORPGs during early testing including early player testing. They abandoned it in favor of the basic no frills UI we had at launch with the idea that player will build out the UI. My guess is they had no real plans to move to consoles at that time because they really get the short end of the decision to abandon the early UI.
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    • TankinatorFR
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      I can understand that some add-on give "unfair" (but intended, as it is permitted) advantage over other peoples that don't use them. But cheating imply doing something that is not explicitly authorized and encouraged by the deciders.

      I barely use any add-ons of this kind, only an add-on that put the timers of my buff/debuff on the icon of the powers themself, thus I can remove the buff/debuff tracker. I do have less information and I need to remember the action related to the timer, but it reduce the screen cluttering and I can better profit of the game's landscapes. Is it cheating to use this combat add-on ?

      Also, one of my in-game friends use lots of add-ons to be informed of incoming attack or to make it easier to see her allies or know where are those who need a rez...
      Is it cheating ?
      Well, you might consider it, but you need to realize that, without those, she wouldn't be playing.
      Life is unfair, and she can barely see outside of the center of the screen, and even there her vision is far from good. A notification on the center on the screen is definitely her only way to get the information at all, and thus, the only way she can play through the all story. Because that is why she is here : the hundreds of quests, the lore, the story bits.
      The add-on is definitely helping, but, sorry, I cannot understand how someone would call her a cheater.

      So, even when it come to combat add-ons, the way you are using them and the reason why you are using them can change everything when it come to judging the person.

      Other add-ons are QoL, definitely.
      Removing the mail delete confirmation is not cheating. It's just that the confirmation is completely unneeded for me. I know some people who prefer the confirmation and won't use this add-on. It's just a matter of preference, but we need add-ons for this, as ZOS give no "do not ask again" option.
      Same thing with grid inventory. I can identify most of my inventory by the icons, but the default list is extremely long and painful to scroll. Most PC game interfaces use a grid-based inventory for a good reason. is it an advantage ? Well, I do have more object on sight at the same time (advantage), but when it come to some objects, like treasure map, I need to put the pointer on the object and wait for the tool-tip to know which one it is, so it is slower than when you just need to see the name to know where to go (disadvantage).
      Here again, the add-on do give more freedom, but no clear advantage, and it will come down to personal tastes.

      Outside of theses add-ons, well...
      I do have add-ons, like this one that make the night darker, up to the point I can barely see anything when there is no moon or artificial light-source. I don't like when night is basically a cloudy day. And I also have this cool add-ons that remove unneeded visuals clues from the lock-picking mini-game (audio clues are enough and more immersive).
      Plus some others add-ons of this kind.
      Theses add-ons are definitely cheats that make the game easier... No ?

      So no, you can't just say that "using add-on is cheating", because there is lots of add-ons and lots of reasons to pick them.
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    • SORjosh
      SORjosh
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      Addons aren't cheating, but I would add an asterisk to all world first etc if addons were used.

      Damage incoming in 5, 4, 3, 2 1 "BLOCK NOW" is just one example of the many outright crutches that addons provide lol.
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    • kringled_1
      kringled_1
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      AS A CONSOLE PLAYER.........

      Naw. I don't consider most add-ons to be cheating. The only issues I have with add-ons are the ones who give you all the information up front without the players having to adventure out themselves or do it themselves:

      Example:

      - Add-ons who give you the direct location of every heavy sack/chest in game without you FIRST having to find them yourself.

      - Any add-ons that give you a distinct advantage over other players (I only heard of one from PC PVP but I think it was taken down?)

      - Anything that automatically does something for you like resets your buffs.

      Just to add something for 2 of your 3 points:
      I can't comment on Harvest map or similar add-ons because I don't use them.
      I have never used Miats add on, but the statements from Zos at the time were clear; zos felt that the alert for stealth attacks was not fair, so that event was removed from the API. AFAIK, the add-on remains available, just without that functionality.
      I'm not aware of any add-on that can recast buffs. The ones I am aware of simply show clearly visible timers so that the player knows when to recast with minimal downtime or overcasting. This is definitely an advantage over base game function, but mostly because base game function is quite poor.
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    • Donny_Vito
      Donny_Vito
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      SORjosh wrote: »
      Addons aren't cheating, but I would add an asterisk to all world first etc if addons were used.

      Damage incoming in 5, 4, 3, 2 1 "BLOCK NOW" is just one example of the many outright crutches that addons provide lol.

      I tend to agree with you.

      The over-arching problem seems to be console players (guilty as charged) comparing their game to PC players. There is a difference in the playing field between the two (specifically add-ons) and therefore us console players tend to few them as crutches. This is just human nature....if you were in school and your class couldn't use calculators for the math test but the other class could then I believe there would be some salty people. They'd call the calculator-using students weak, inferior, and potentially cheaters. But those students were just using the tools available, and they'd be foolish if they did not. I believe the same mentality is happening here, and it continually causes a rift between the two different gaming communities.
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    • VaranisArano
      VaranisArano
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      SORjosh wrote: »
      Addons aren't cheating, but I would add an asterisk to all world first etc if addons were used.

      Damage incoming in 5, 4, 3, 2 1 "BLOCK NOW" is just one example of the many outright crutches that addons provide lol.

      Something to consider when talking about "World Firsts" is that PC Players get to practice extensively on PTS and to use ESO Logs to refine their tactics.

      So there's no point at all in comparing PC and Console "World Firsts", even before we start talking about add-ons.

      And there's very little point in trying to be a "Vanilla ESO Purist" on PC, when everyone has access to the same addons, and choosing not to do so is a self-imposed challenge. There are no official prizes for self-imposed challenges.
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    • mairwen85
      mairwen85
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      Irrelevant post below...

      I'm just going to say this: 'hence why' is the same as saying 'which is why why'.

      'Hence' is interchangeable with 'therefore', 'thus', or as a single word replacement for 'the reason why'.

      Example:
      I slipped in dog mess, which is why I have new trousers.

      I slipped in dog mess, hence the new trousers.

      Is having more whys than everybody else cheating the discussion?

      Edit
      Sorry just read a lot of why why on several pages.
      Edited by mairwen85 on October 10, 2019 3:42PM
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    • red_emu
      red_emu
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      I couldn't even get through the walls and walls of text there, so I'll say one thing.

      The moment Bandits UI is considered cheating, I'm done with the game 😏
      PC - EU:
      Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
      Falathren - AD StamSorc
      Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
      Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
      Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
      Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
      Your-Ex - AD MagBlade
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    • InvitationNotFound
      InvitationNotFound
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      Davor wrote: »
      {Wall of text}...
      TL;DR

      So is ad-ons cheating? If not give reasons why. Please respect everyone's opinion even if you disagree.

      You seem to not really understand the differences between mods, addons and third party application.

      Both mods and third party applications are not allowed in ESO. So I'll stick to addons for the further discussion.

      To develop an addon, ZOS respectively the developer has to expose an API (Application Programming Interface) for the addon developers. Otherwise, this is not possible.

      So in Fallout, the game developer said no, we do not provide an API. Here in ESO, ZOS said "hell yeah, we want to provide such an interface so people can write addons".

      ZOS defines the API and what kind of information is available to the addon developer. So ZOS wants and encourages this.
      You will find the conditions at different places: ToS, Add-On Terms and likely at other places as well.

      So declaring this cheating is absolutely nonsense. ZOS actively allows this and wants players to develop and use addons.
      Excerpt from the Add-On Terms:
      As part of the ongoing Services provided to You, ZOS will make available an application programming interface (the "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content, including user-generated Content ("UGC"), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for The Elder Scrolls® Online software-as-a-service product purchased by You (the "Game").

      So no, addons are by far not cheating.
      We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
      You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
      Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober

      Addons:
      RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
      Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
      Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
      Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR
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    • Cirantille
      Cirantille
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      I just gave up and started using add-ons.

      Holy shirt! That AUI thing is great, now I can see where I am heading thanks to minimap
      Also I can see people's classes, I was always wondering that hahah

      Plus Skyshards thing, such a time saver.
      Options
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