So two people starting at the same time and playing roughly the same way the person who has ESO+ will have an "up" on the other person.
Is an ESO+ subscription cheating? Think of all the advantages over those people who might not have access to Cloudrest or Sunspire, let alone an infinite crafting bag.
Let's please keep this civil and have a friendly debate. I just like to have a friendly discussion. Being a friendly debate we need to respect everyone's opinion. Thing is we don't need to agree to other people's opinion but respect it non the less since many millions have dies so we can have rights for different opinions. So we can RESPECTFULLY disagree.Thing is if we "need to prove someone wrong" then address what the person said and not just give examples of what the person didn't say and or deflect what the person is trying to say.
At first, I thought, no, ad-ons are not cheating because it just makes my game enjoyable. So I never though of it again until Fallout 76. For some reason, Bethesda considers ad-ons as cheating and Zenimax Online Doesn't. Wierd, but OK, what ever. I respectfully disagree with Bethesda and many players of Fallout 76 who say ad-ons is cheating.
Having an open mind, even when I disagree with other people's opinion, I still try to understand why they think like that. I play Fallout 76 as if it was a single player game just like I do in ESO. After the year has gone by, I have dabbed in a bit with ESO multiplayer because of events, and just finally did play with another person in Fallout 76. My view has seemed to change a bit.
While my stance on Ad-ons or mods what ever you want to call it, when playing a single player game ad-ons/mods don't matter. Play how you want. So I thought this was weird in Fallout 76, since many people say that ad-ons are "quality of life" issues and or fixes and I agreed. After all, anything to add fun or make something fun and not unfun/frustrating is always good. Thing is people on the Fallout 76 forums still said Quality of Life ad-ons/mods are still cheats but never explain how. So it took me a year to figure it out.
After playing ESO on PC I went back to console to see how it was. My god. It was tough. No mini map. No visuals on the screen or placed where I want them. No this or that. So I went back to PC ESO since it was more enjoyable because of the Quality of Life fixes. Then like I said I finally did some playing with other people. Only then I noticed how some QoL issues changed the screen when people are in PvP lands with groups. Then I go back to console and try it and then that is when it hit me. QoL issues are a cheat in any game where people play with each other especially in PvP.
What are QoL issues say a mini map is a cheat. On consoles where there is no ability to have a mini map, that is an ADVANTAGE since the person who has a mini map doesn't have to stop what they are doing and have a giant map blocking their screen. While not a big deal in my opinion, any advantage is a cheat. Now we have ad-ons/mods that let numbers go off to the side. Is this a cheat? Well it does give an advantage since it's not cluttering the screen and it could help others to have those numbers on the side and read them better.
Same for ad-ons that allow to show members of your group that people who don't use ad-ons or console players don't have access to, get an advantage that can actually be of use.
Since in my opinion, Quality of Life issues make a game easier to play, that is an advantage, no matter how small, is an advantage over someone who doesn't use it. So any advantage no matter how small is a cheat.
Now my question is, why do we keep saying on ESO forums that they are not a cheat but Quality of Life issues? Is it because we don't want to be considered cheaters? We are using 3rd party software that wasn't intended in the game. Doesn't matter if the mini map is in the game, Zenimax Online for what ever reason doesn't have it activated and console users can't activate it, so it's an advantage no matter what. So it's a cheat. I didn't like calling myself a cheater, but now I realize, doesn't matter if I don't call myself a cheater, I am because I am using ad-ons. I have an advantage when I play on PC because I use ad-ons and can't use them on console.
Now for sure we can say ad-ons that show where skyshards, books, what ever is cheating. It makes your character more powerful faster than someone who doesn't know where to find them without looking at the spot on the map. That is a blatant cheat. It's cheating when PC and or console users look on the internet for the answer as well.
I hope I have explained myself. I very well can be wrong and I can admit when I am wrong. Let's have a fun friendly discussion. Is there really an right or wrong answer? After all we all have differing opinions so opinions in most cases can't be wrong. After all is someone wrong for wanting to eat sardines out of a can while walking down the street? Is someone wrong for wanting anchovies on their pizza? Well 1+1=2 so if someone says otherwise would be wrong UNLESS they show how it's not.
TL;DR
So is ad-ons cheating? If not give reasons why. Please respect everyone's opinion even if you disagree.
Donny_Vito wrote: »There are addons that can improve buff/debuff visibility. In extreme cases this gets dismissed as, "it tells you when to do everything." Thing is, it's only relaying information you have access to, and putting it in your face.
Same is true for things Raid Notifier. Raid Notifier cannot give you any information you couldn't get on your own (Except: for telling you the correct names for certain actions. Know what Storm of the Heavens is? You'll find out if you run vAS with Raid Notifier turned on. You could see the ability before, but now you'll have it on your screen.)
I think the only valid argument I see against this is that you're not using the combat and mechanics for how it was designed. Meaning, the intent is for you to look around the fight and identify mechanics as they come. It sorta defeats that purpose when every mechanic is written on your screen. Do I think it's cheating? No, ZoS allows it. But I do think it makes you an inferior player since you have to rely on additional help to beat a fight.
After having used notifier, I would actually argue that I've become a better player than I was before. Taking into account latency, some effects don't even show on my screen sometimes. The game really only tells you what kills you, but if you don't know what effects are named what can also make it difficult to narrow down when you should dodge, block, tank or kite. Saying players who use notifiers are inferior to those who do not is about as silly as saying people who used stone tools were obviously inferior to the ones using wooden implements. Add-ons are tools and if they are available and you want to use them you should. Or I suppose in group content people also aren't allowed to call out mechanics either, cuz that would make players inferior?
Since in my opinion, Quality of Life issues make a game easier to play, that is an advantage, no matter how small, is an advantage over someone who doesn't use it. So any advantage no matter how small is a cheat.
VaranisArano wrote: »Imagine walking into an open note test and saying everyone’s notes were cheating because you failed to bring your notes.
That’s the OP
How is that? Just because you say so doesn't make it so. Again, give examples as I said before to show how someone is wrong. In this case how am I wrong? Just trying to shame? I don't understand what you ment. Love an explanation.
Its an analogy. PC and Console are two different classrooms. PC gets an open note test. Console gets a closed note test (thanks to their Console providers not providing PTS, ESO Logs, or add-ons). Everyone knew that ahead of time when they bought ESO for their platform.
On the PC Open note test, everyone is allowed to have their notes out to get answers. There are no extra prizes for not bringing your notes except for maybe feeling smug that "I didnt need my notes, even though they were totally allowed." If you call students using their notes "cheaters", they are going to laugh, because its an open note test. Notes are 100% allowed, and your grade isn't somehow more valid because you didnt use your notes. In fact, if you missed answers because you didnt use your notes, its a valid question to ask "You know its an open note test, right?"
Tank you for this. You mean open book test. I never herd of open note test. OK this makes sense now. Never herd that expression before. For us in Ontario at least back in the day it was "open book test". We hardly ever had them. Notes were on paper and were never allowed to be brought. This is why it seemed so weird for me.
Well here is one. Not sure how it is else where in the world, but here in Canada, or at least in Ontario, if we win a prize we need to answer a skill testing question with no help with any device, digital or what ever or have someone help us and need to do it on our own in a specific amount of time.
Other parts of the world they can use a calculator if they need to answer a question to get a prize. Is it a cheat? No, because it is allowed, BUT for me it would be an "unfair" advantage though because I don't get to use the calculator.
I curious, what would be the proper term, or wording we should use? Playing the same game with different rules. Unfair? Unfair advantage?There's just no point in comparing the two tests.
The way I see it, and I am not saying you are wrong just to show my opinion and at least understand why I am thinking this. Reason I see there is comparing is because I believe when some people say "git gud" or others I have seen said "use this app it will help you in combat" and most times people will say "I am on console" or others just don't want to use apps and play the game on how Zenimax Online wants us to.
So how is it fair for someone using ad-ons and then tell someone get better only because they use it? For people who don't do this, which is most I believe, it's a non issue but I do laugh at a person who thinks they are good just because they use an ad-ons that helps them and without it, they can't play as good.
I play better on PC because I have ad-ons I use, but on console game is a bit harder because of no ad-ons. That is why I feel like I am cheating on PC. Even if it's legal, it does for me feel like cheating. When I get all the achievements for finding the skyshards, it feels good, but knowing I need to look at Google or someone using an ad-on, it doesn't feel good for me because they needed help to find it.
Nothing wrong to cheat in single player games because it ads fun to the game. Thing is once SOMEONE does try and tell someone else to get better is using an ad-on that is different. That is getting help not on your own.
Just to make clear which it seems I didn't do, I am not calling anyone a cheater, saying it is cheating and we shouldn't do it. For me, at that moment of time, I felt I was, and then got thinking were the people on the other forum correct after all, when I was in the shoes of the camp saying "it's not cheating". Were they correct after all?
Doesn't matter, I just thought we all could have a good conversation and talk about something different for once. Surprised we didn't have anyone say "nerf sorcerers" or "stop nerfing things". Nice to discuss something else for once.
I don't think addons are cheating perse, but they do give an advantage over those who do not or CAN NOT use them (low PC specs).
IMO, the addons that become mandatory to use should be baked into the factory UI to balance the playing field.
Those with low PC specs are at a disadvantage in most MMORPGs as it is. Slower response is deadly. When the indication of the area effect is not showing up until a couple seconds later that is a disadvantage.
Your post is 100% irrelevant to the discussion.
If an addon becomes so used that it becomes necessary in order to play the game, it should be baked into the UI.
Thank you for replying, always nice to see you and correct your mistakes.
So you make a comment about the disadvantage of those who cannot use addons due to low PC specs and when I essentially agree with you and state they are normally at a disadvantage for multiple reasons my comment is irrelevant to the discussion. Hmm
You are cherry picking my post out of context, hence why your comment is irrelevant.
redlink1979 wrote: »Only amazes me the fact that some of them were never even considered to be added to base game even if all the players could benefit from their functionality.
Kuramas9tails wrote: »AS A CONSOLE PLAYER.........
Naw. I don't consider most add-ons to be cheating. The only issues I have with add-ons are the ones who give you all the information up front without the players having to adventure out themselves or do it themselves:
Example:
- Add-ons who give you the direct location of every heavy sack/chest in game without you FIRST having to find them yourself.
- Any add-ons that give you a distinct advantage over other players (I only heard of one from PC PVP but I think it was taken down?)
- Anything that automatically does something for you like resets your buffs.
Addons aren't cheating, but I would add an asterisk to all world first etc if addons were used.
Damage incoming in 5, 4, 3, 2 1 "BLOCK NOW" is just one example of the many outright crutches that addons provide lol.
Addons aren't cheating, but I would add an asterisk to all world first etc if addons were used.
Damage incoming in 5, 4, 3, 2 1 "BLOCK NOW" is just one example of the many outright crutches that addons provide lol.
{Wall of text}...
TL;DR
So is ad-ons cheating? If not give reasons why. Please respect everyone's opinion even if you disagree.
As part of the ongoing Services provided to You, ZOS will make available an application programming interface (the "API") to allow You to create, download, enable, use, or associate Content, including user-generated Content ("UGC"), that modifies or otherwise provides enhanced features to the user interface ("Add-ons") for The Elder Scrolls® Online software-as-a-service product purchased by You (the "Game").