PTS Update 21 - Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Changes

The_Last_Titan

i do like the ultimate generation for nord, it could be the key to making them dps viable without making them over powered, if it was 5, every 5 seconds then nerf the resists down to breton levels, would have to lower the health too probably so would be tricky, and maybe would make them OP as tanks if not done right

zaria

The_Last_Titan wrote: »

i do like the ultimate generation for nord, it could be the key to making them dps viable without making them over powered, if it was 5, every 5 seconds then nerf the resists down to breton levels, would have to lower the health too probably so would be tricky, and maybe would make them OP as tanks if not done right

More ultimate will make them OP as tanks, rather give Nord a bit weapon damage,

twing1_

Tyrion87 wrote: »

The new spell recharge is a dead passive for Altmer as in PvE magicka characters have their stamina full most of the time and even if not, they just don't need stam regen at all. Even in PvP the stam gain is too little to be noticeable and meaningful.

Please, consider changing this passive into something like: Altmer get back their magicka (or highest resource) either when it drops below certain % or when they are hit with a magicka direct dmg ability (in both cases with a cooldown). Alternatively just ditch the sustain from Altmer and give them a little bonus to spell penetration (even a conditional bonus).

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457727/lowest-resource-restore-belongs-to-the-dunmer#latest

I suggest just this! I take it even a step farther and suggest they give spell recharge to the dunmer to further differentiate the races and to consolidate dunmer as the hybrid race. Take a look at my thread and keep it alive

@Tyrion87

dave_harter_ESO

The altmer changes are very poor workmanship. Altmer were only third place in the last pts for pve , while now with the new changes altmer are pure garbage for pve. I cannot state how much I dislike this. Alcast does such a better job than ZOS at understanding pve balance. Lore Wise it makes no sense that altmer and dummer are crap mages as well.

The_Last_Titan

zaria wrote: »

The_Last_Titan wrote: »

i do like the ultimate generation for nord, it could be the key to making them dps viable without making them over powered, if it was 5, every 5 seconds then nerf the resists down to breton levels, would have to lower the health too probably so would be tricky, and maybe would make them OP as tanks if not done right

More ultimate will make them OP as tanks, rather give Nord a bit weapon damage,

yeah maybe 129 weapon damage at the cost of bringing the resist to 2310 would end up being similar for total power, for stam. ult is more neutral so would be better for mag

tomex

Vapirko wrote: »

sionIV wrote: »

Imperial is the worst race at the moment, with Nord coming in on a close second. I would prefer something like this instead of the changes that we have now.

Imperial

1500 Magicka
1500 Stamina
1000 Health
Red Diamond: When you deal Direct Damage, you restore 400 Health, Magicka, Stamina and you gain 1500 Physical and Spell Resistance for 5 seconds. This effect has a 5 second cooldown.

Get it through your head that not every race is based on top DPS parses. People like to play Tanks and healers as well. How is Nord one of the worst races? As far as I know a lot of PvPers and tanks are quite happy with the Nord changes. Imperials need work yes, but is ZOS going to make them a top DPS race? I doubt it.

Your avatar says everything.

What happens to tanks in pvp?
Beaten to death without killing anything (maybe a new guy almost dead get killed) and are ignored. Once they get out of resources, bye bye. A DK uses corrosive armor, bye bye. Berserker Strike and it's morphs, bye bye. Bleeds, bye bye. etc...
I know that you have seen them in pvp but your are trying to call everyone idiots.

Get an Orc and put it in heavy armor, and watch the difference between them and the rest of the stamina based races.

In pve basically you don't need a full tank (you don't need it except in the new dungeons), and there are dungeons where even if you are full tank you get one blow and you are gone. Or if you think it's fun to get a boss facing you in corner while the dps guys do damage like in a test dummy and don't even have to think or see the mechanics. I rather do housing.
Why don't you get a full tank and do vet Maelstrom arena? It might be fun for you. And if you do finish it before the end of life of the game let me know.

In PvE and PvP tanks are useless, except in some situations (i.e. a group of new guys in a dungeon).

I think I need to start streaming and get a guild called: (put race) army, and yell a lot to put pressure on ZOS and the races I play will have the same treatment as Orcs. Damn, I'm not a native English speaker, the streaming might not work.

silvereyes

@ZOS_Gilliam, I just tested out Bosmer Hunter's Eye changes for week 3, and here are my impressions after getting some real gameplay. I tested combat with and without skill points assigned to the passive, for comparison.

Speed Boost after Dodge Roll:

• The speed difference is completely unnoticeable when repositioning with bow in combat with the passive vs. without. Hasty Retreat already gives a 30% boost, which is more than fast enough. (edit: I previously, incorrectly, stated 20%)
• The difference is slightly noticeable when swapping to my melee bar, since there's not Hasty Retreat. However, it feels unnecessary as well. The circumference of the circle I move in around the target is so small at melee range, that traversing it at normal speed is fine.
• I couldn't help but feeling that it would be much nicer to always have the speed boost on, to be able to strafe enemies better. After dodge rolling, I was rarely in a position where I needed to strafe.

Penetration Bonus after Dodge Roll:

• I never did figure out how to use the extra penetration bonus in PvE content.
• If I build to actually use the extra penetration, I will be underpenetrating on boss fights and loose DPS.
• Dodge rolling is too expensive both in terms of stamina and opportunity cost from not attacking.
• Even if the penetration bonus were much higher, dodge rolling as part of a PvE DPS rotation seems like it would just be incredibly awkward.
• I could see the extra physical penetration *might* make trash fights a little faster, where Major/Minor fracture uptime is low.
• The spell penetration is kinda weird. Not sure why someone would be trying to cause damage with magicka skills on a Wood Elf.

twing1_

I am really worried about the lack of racial identity between the Altmer and Dunmer in the current state of the PTS. My concerns and reasoning with a possible solution are outlined in this thread.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457979/lack-of-racial-identity-between-altmer-and-dunmer#latest

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Eiron77

From PTS Patch Notes v4.3.0:forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454456/

Since Wood Elves are natural born hunters... so they could hunt their targets better... we’ve repurposed the Stealthy passive to be an anti-stealth one.

One more thought to add about removing Bosmer's Stealthy passive...
By the mechanics of the game, Khajits will now be the supreme hunters.


This is because:

• 3m of a reduced detection area cancels out 3m of stealth detection.
• Meaning, a Khajit stalking a Bosmer is the same as a Nord stalking an Argonian.
• In this scenario, what do you think is the percentage of the Nord hitting the Argonian first?

Result in philosophical question form: Who is the hunter and who is the prey?


We will now reverse the scenario.

3m of stealth detection vs. any race in stealth that is not Khajit.

• The sneaking Bosmer wanders the PvP area for x amount of time, hoping to find a stealth target they can only see with an additional 3m.
• Ok. That took too long to think about.
• So, now we'll say: A sneaking Bosmer notices the target that is not Khajit "disappear" into stealth mode.
• The Bosmer could wander the immediate area hoping to stumble within 3m of the sneaking target.
• But the intelligent Bosmer remembers that it has an AoE (or an ability similar to Magelight).
• The Bosmer throws the AoE/Magelight in a tactical position, revealing the sneaking target that is not Khajit.
• BUT!! OH NO!! A few moments later, the Bosmer notices a sneaking Khajit already attacking him at 3m away!
• While the Bosmer is still reacting, the Khajit has hunted the Bosmer.

Result in sarcasm form: The Bosmer is on the same level of hunter as every other man, woman, and mer that is not Khajit. gg.

Narvuntien

My thoughts on the racial changes in the recent update:

Dumner: Yay more resources and the removal of the hp bonus that didn't really fit with what people used the race for. I got a small but noticeable dps increase from the changes.

Bosmer: My suggestion of giving a damage boost on dodge roll was acted upon, yay listening but. as I have said in other threads. Penetration is a strong offensive stat but because it constantly updates you need to have it run for a longer time for it to be effective. my suggestion was for a weapon damage buff which also effects healing which often occurs after dodge rolling and is locked in for skills like endless hail and caltrops allowing it to be used as a PVE damage buff more effectively than Penetration.

Altmer: So this is where the rage is at and I sympathise with it. This change seems super unnecessary. The change to giving you the wrong resource is almost always completely useless due to the way the game is designed even for tanks and its just too small an effect for PVP. As far as I can tell this is a response to players complaining about swapping their MagDKs to altmer over dumner. As MagDK use the most class skills of any class and struggle with sustain in such a way that Altmer is very beneficial. I like the "When you use a class skill" trigger this passive uses but perhaps if you want to make Altmer not feel like always the best choice perhaps not give them sustain from this passive (making Breton THE sustain race) but a different bonus perhaps resistances or spell penetration (although this might be too strong) anything not sustain so that the Altmer will be powerful spell casters but not sustained ones. The other option is to restore the lowest % resource or whatever is lowest at the time but it seems super stop gap and not that good when the first version of the passive seemed fine.

Breton: Neato Breton is looking very good this patch, those elemental types are very common.

I don't play other races so I can't really compare befores and afters.

dodgehopper_ESO

zaria wrote: »

Arciris wrote: »

"zaria wrote: »

Khajiit is only ahead on templars because of piercing spear +10% crit damage, change this passive if needed.
The latest buff was to compensate for nerf to stealth and low base stats who will not benefit so much from the new +20% from cp.

Agree on Altmer, unneeded nerf, revert it perhaps even buff them

Dunmer look decent perhaps a bit sustain as you say.

Argonians, agree not shoehorn into healer role. 3-4% healing done or received.

Agree on Bosmer its the other race who is an mess now, static penetration would work.

Why nerf Templar because of one single race? Leave Piercing Spear alone, it is fine.
People freaking out about Khajiit forget that:
- in most test thus far, the kitties only come on top within a +500 dps margin from the second. 500 DPS!!! The sky isn't falling, you don't need to play a cat for anything, If I had to choose an optimal race for my Templar, it would be Breton hands down.
- Khajiit had 10% Critical rating for both Spell and Weapon damage at launch. They were meant to be great damage dealers in both specs since the game conception because it is Lore friendly.
- Khajiit are only good for PvE. They are a trash race for PvP, especially since they don't even have a damage from stealth bonus anymore. At least with Breton (magika) or Orc (stamina) you can tackle both end game PvE and end game PvP

Conclusion: Khajiit is fine, no changes needed (no buffs, no nerfs) - other races still need a slight buff

Never asked for an nerf for templar.
Simply change piercing spear to something else like crit chance if Khajit templar got OP, a lot to avoid an one race - one class setting who we know become an problem down the line.

However they will not do class changes this round only races, class changes will come next update.
Can be smart to save some race change tokens.

Horrible idea.

silvereyes

silvereyes wrote: »

I did some testing on PTS to compare the speed bonuses/sprint cost reduction of Orcs Swift Warrior passive vs Bosmer's Hunter's Eye roll dodge speed boost passive, to see how they handled and which I preferred.

[snip]

Race Results

• Orc time: 18 seconds, every time
• Bosmer time: 17 seconds, every time

I just re-tested the same exact retreat sprint for Bosmer on PTS v4.3.2. The overall race results didn't really change, even with the nerf to Hunter's Eye to 10% speed boost. I'm sure it was a fraction of a second slower, but well within a margin of error with executing my dodge rolls at the right time.

Bosmer time (Hunter's Eye PTS v4.3.2): 17 seconds, every time.

I guess this kind of makes sense. Sprinting alone is a 40% boost, and Hasty Retreat adds another 30%. The difference between 190% movement speed (PTS v4.3.0) and 180% movement speed (PTS v4.3.2) is somewhat unnoticeable in the time spans dictated by a normal stamina pool, especially since 20-25% of your time is spent rolling instead of sprinting.

In fact, I did another test with Hunter's Eye completely turned off.

Bosmer time (no Hunter's Eye Passive): 17.5 seconds.

There is a significant difference, but only about 1% slower. Hunter's Eye in either iteration, 10% or 20%, isn't fast enough to escape a determined pursuit by someone else with a bow.

I did a last test with Rapid Maneuvers and straight up sprinting, and while this used significantly more stamina...

Rapid Maneuvers + Sprint time: 16 seconds

The same speed can be accomplished by any other source of Major Expedition (Boundless Storm, Quick Cloak, Double Take, Path of Darkness, Falcon's Swiftness, Frozen Retreat, Elusive Mist, speed pots). There should be no problems catching Wood Elves running away. They take resources, true, but so does roll dodging.

In retrospect, nerfing the movement speed bonus down to 10% was probably unnecessary. It's such a minor thing when compared to other sources of speed.

Edit: It does make a difference if you don't use a bow at all, like for a sword and board back bar. But if you are running S+B, you are brawling and probably not running away too much.

Strider__Roshin

I would like to see some attempt on the devs part to make them respectable damage dealers rather than being pigeon holed into only being tanks. As much as I love Nords I'm probably going to swap to Orc next update; they're just too good.

FilteredRiddle

Pre-PTS week 3 updates, I made this suggestion:

Imperial:
- Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → Increases Experience gain in any Melee Skill Line* by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain
- 12% Max Health + 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Max Stamina by 2000.
- New Passive → Increase Melee Weapon Damage by 258
- 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you have a 15% chance to heal for 1750 and restore 950 Stamina.

*Two-Handed, Dual-Wield, and One Hand and Shield

Post-PTS week 3 updates, I amended it to this suggestion:

Imperial:
- Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → Increases Experience gain in any Melee Skill Line* by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain
- 12% Max Health + 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Max Stamina by 1000.
- New Passive → Increase Melee Weapon Damage by 258
- 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you restore 650 Health and Stamina. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.

However, as lots of people seem stuck on Imperial maintaining magic I further amended it to this suggestion:

Imperial:
- Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → Increases Experience gain in any Melee or Staff Skill Line by 10%, extra 1% Gold gain
- 12% Max Health + 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Max Stamina by 1000.
- New Passive → Increase Melee Weapon or Staff Damage by 258, based on your highest maximum resource.
- 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you restore 650 Health and either Stamina or Magicka based on your highest maximum resource. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%.

The "Reduces the cost of your Block and Bash abilities by 5%" could easily be removed, to make the race more 'open'.

Imperial:
- Increases Experience gain in One Hand and Shield Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Gold gain → Increases Experience gain in any Melee or Staff Skill Line by 10%, extra 1% Gold gain
- 12% Max Health + 10% Max Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Max Stamina by 1500.
- New Passive → Increase Melee Weapon or Staff Damage by 258, based on your highest maximum resource.
- 10% Chance on Melee Attack to heal for 6% of Max Health → When you deal Direct Damage you restore 650 Health and either Stamina or Magicka based on your highest maximum resource. This effect has a 5 second cooldown.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam

zaria

The_Last_Titan wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

The_Last_Titan wrote: »

i do like the ultimate generation for nord, it could be the key to making them dps viable without making them over powered, if it was 5, every 5 seconds then nerf the resists down to breton levels, would have to lower the health too probably so would be tricky, and maybe would make them OP as tanks if not done right

More ultimate will make them OP as tanks, rather give Nord a bit weapon damage,

yeah maybe 129 weapon damage at the cost of bringing the resist to 2310 would end up being similar for total power, for stam. ult is more neutral so would be better for mag

Sounds like an plan, not like you would be OP against Orc

Sascha

I'd like to share my feedback as well.

As a Disclaimer, I only play Khajiit, but I can understand the frustrations of altmer players. Restoring stam on a magicka class and magicka on a stam class can be good for utility on stam-nightblade or sorcs, but altmer need a little sustain to keep their spot as one of the top for dps. Sustain is after all the other half of DPS. Maybe revert the passive but lower the value slightly?

Now as for Khajiit, what really frustrates me is how the metrics for if we are "balanced" are being distilled down to how Khajiit DPS performs on Optimal classes, in Optimal raid conditions, with group members using shards/bubbles, and by only a tiny margin of DPS!

Even with the last buff, khajiit only outperforms on two classes under ideal conditions and by a tiny margin. I feel like a lot of the flack we are getting is from people who are sore about the changes to the old "master races" and are looking for something to take it out on.

As others have pointed out this is also only in pve; In pvp, people will generally continue to pick more meta races like orc.
PvP is my main focus, and I'm really happy to see the performance gap being narrowed between kitties and the other races. Please don't nerf Khajiit back down simply because we get 1k more DPS out of 48k+ DPS in trial conditions.

ToRelax

Narvuntien wrote: »

[...]

Altmer: So this is where the rage is at and I sympathise with it. This change seems super unnecessary. The change to giving you the wrong resource is almost always completely useless due to the way the game is designed even for tanks and its just too small an effect for PVP. As far as I can tell this is a response to players complaining about swapping their MagDKs to altmer over dumner. As MagDK use the most class skills of any class and struggle with sustain in such a way that Altmer is very beneficial. I like the "When you use a class skill" trigger this passive uses but perhaps if you want to make Altmer not feel like always the best choice perhaps not give them sustain from this passive (making Breton THE sustain race) but a different bonus perhaps resistances or spell penetration (although this might be too strong) anything not sustain so that the Altmer will be powerful spell casters but not sustained ones. The other option is to restore the lowest % resource or whatever is lowest at the time but it seems super stop gap and not that good when the first version of the passive seemed fine.

[...]

It actually makes Altmer look a whole lot better for mag DK in PvP.

Lluanda

Sascha wrote: »

Even with the last buff, khajiit only outperforms on two classes under ideal conditions and by a tiny margin. I feel like a lot of the flack we are getting is from people who are sore about the changes to the old "master races" and are looking for something to take it out on.

As others have pointed out this is also only in pve; In pvp, people will generally continue to pick more meta races like orc.
PvP is my main focus, and I'm really happy to see the performance gap being narrowed between kitties and the other races. Please don't nerf Khajiit back down simply because we get 1k more DPS out of 48k+ DPS in trial conditions.

Agreed. I main an Altmer, I have many Altmer and Dunmer and Breton. While I'm not happy with the latest change to Altmer nor the position of Dunmer, I very much welcome the changes to Khajiit and hope they will stay strong as I'd love to see more of them in the world and actually can't wait to play a Khajiit mage.

SodanTok

New Patch Feedback

I believe in the first iteration of race changes ZoS hit quite good spot for majority of races so I find new changes mostly like using hammer instead of chisel. It looks to chaotic and random not as thought out as the first changes were. Sure some races needed some tweaks and some little buffs but it should have been done differently... imo.

Altmer
They were quite balanced option. Small tweak to put them lower wouldnt hurt them (tho people would still complain), but they were balanced. Removing one passive completly is kinda weird way to 'tweak' them. For a record by tweaking I mean moving stuff around. I can get behind the idea that should not have damage and sustain in their kit, but it should have been achieved by replacing the sustain with either damage or something useful. Small stamina regen is not useful in combat, because stamina spending happens mostly in big spikes (getting pressured) to magicka builds in pvp and pve. It is fine as utility passive, but then I believe Altmer are owned small combat passive.

Argonian
They deserved some tweaking and maybe even buff but it went to wrong passive. Potion passive is incredibly strong and rightfully complained about in PVP. It was nerfed well in first patch. Argonians deserved buff in other ways than that.

Bosmer
Totally broken . As a bosmer player I can admit I have bias, but the penetration is simply useless. Old version gave noticeable speed boost on dodge roll, it was utility passive with very small effect on combat outside of PVP, but it was still good enough to make sense. Current version goes against most of the points made about racial balances and developer notes. It has 3 totally different parts - stealth detection, movement on dodge and damage on dodge.

I dont have to explain how stealth detection doesnt hold any value in combat, only to find people that arent engaged or interested in combat, because monsters in dungeons, trials or even overland dont sneak and players in pvp engaged in combat cannot sneak. This means this part of passive is essentially dead weight on the list of things bosmer can do and while it is there to appease lore, according to reasoning every race has something to appease lore, yet only bosmer (and well khajiit part) dont directly affect combat. Even stuff like stamina sustain for high elves or snare reduction for redguard is something they always gain advantage from no matter how little it matters because spending stamina or being snared is something regularly happening in combat.

Dodge roll on moving is good part of the passive. Dodge roll is reposition and defense tool used to avoid attacks or close distances. Movement speed is essentially helping with that. 10% is not very noticeable but it is still advantage anyone using dodge roll gains benefit from. And every build in every content uses dodge roll for this effect, In that sense this part of passive is good utility advantage comparable to any other race.

Which brings me to the 3rd part of this passive. I could summ this up as opposite statement than above. Penetration on dodge roll absolutely makes no sense and is in no way good boon and can be easily argued as being totally useless for overwhelming majority of people in this game across any content. I will repeat myself slightly here: Dodge roll is reposition and defense tool. In both senses this means interrupting combat to perform move to get out (get somewhere else) or avoid damage. It cannot be used as offensive move to get damage boon, because the basic elements of the combat system are build against it. There is stacking cost increasing each dodge roll to make dodge roll mindful reactionary activity. If the game and the cost of dodge roll was balanced around dodge roll being used as main defensive ability yet not spammed mindlessly it means builds that use dodge roll as their defensive ability can hardly afford to start using it offensively too. But fine, that can still be argued to be just trade off (tho anyone playing medium armor build in noCP pvp can tell you that dodge rolling is way too expensive and medium too squishy to afford wasting resources to gain offensive boost).
But there is more! In PVE the combat was designed (or evolved into?) around performing rotation in timely manner (using abilities as fast as global cooldown allows) and rewarding organized teamplay (more healing and buffs from people generally standing in places than run around like chicken). Dodge roll as offensive buff doesnt fit into this design, because it costs stamina, creates delay in your rotation and moves you to different spot. And thats ignoring the fact the buff is so small that if there was just simple ability that on cast gives this buff for the cost of dodge roll it wouldnt be used even if it lasted 5 times longer.
And still more! It is penetration. The purest damage stat out of all possible. It is stat healers and tanks (and people not actively fighting) have no use for. It is stat majority of endgame pve builds around maximizing. That means any build in any slightly organized group will either have enough penetration 100% of the time and gain nothing from this. Or they will build for less and then they will have same amount of penetration for way less than 100% of the time and... lose damage because of how big of impact penetration has yet also how easy it is to get mere 1500 of it from CP so almost no value gained from having it.

Now i typed too much so I dont feel like continuing rest of feedback in same manner...

Khajiit:
As khajiit player I like these buffs, but I again believe the race was balanced and instead of just slapping more regen/stats on it it should have been moved from somewhere (like health regen). I also dont believe the sneak passive has any value in combat. Mostly because sneaking is literally impossible to do while in combat.

Orc:
Takes simple math to figure out they are overbuffed. They have way too much raw power while getting useful utility passives. They are essentially carrying 2 best possible stamina damage passives - 258 WD and 2k stam (comparable to bosmer 258 regen and 2k stam or dunmer 258 WD and 1875 stam) but they also get slapped with 1k health. Health at worst is useful but unnoticeable gain in PVE when build has already enough health at best it is simply 1k more stamina because of use regen food that puts health below enough level (and I dont have to explain how having 3k stam and 258 WD is ridiculous). Health is also always useful in PVP because 99% of stamina build build for more health than they have on default, making it again either useful HP buff or stamina convert. 3k of useful stats and 258WD on top is just wrong.
Also, (tho my bias speaks here), I dont see how anyone could not see they are simply better bosmer in every way. 258 WD to 258 regen, 2k stam to 2k stam, 10% speed on sprint to 10% speed on dodge and then 1k health and sprint reduction with small healing to... sneak detection, poison resistance and penetration on dodge? Nobody would take these things over 1k health alone.

All other races seem fine to me.

technohic

I actually change my position on Nord overall. Stats are fine with the armor bonus. I don't think they ultimate regen is that great for a little sooner ultimate on a particular playstyle, but nor do I find stealth for Khajiit much more for most of my builds. Question really becomes where do things stand as far as other races balance wise and the trade off for tankiness vs damage, vs off stats and you all have that debate going just fine.

The_Last_Titan

Going to be trying to buff all races to varying levels. I believe altmer got nerfed because the regen created too much power for dunmer to keep up without making them the top stamina dps. so buff everyone or nerf a few, also tie in damage reduction/health/utility to each race. I haven't given some of the races enough thought, so ill stick to some i have.

altmer: more consistent mitigation/add mag sustain and buff most others a tiny bit!

the 5% should be reworked somehow, i would say 5% for 3 seconds after casting an ability. Something that is going to be on a lot more consistently. but i'm guessing the "while channeling" mechanic might be the whole point of the % based modifier so don't know... give them magicka sustain back, but raise some other races if so.

khajiit: balance out the pvp/pve damage side of things a tiny bit.

give them maybe 500 more mag/stam and reduce the crit chance to 6% or 129 wd/sd and put the crit at 4%, not sure if the damage makes more sense on a clawed khajiit or less..up the regen more if high elf gets magicka back.

if khajiit are doing more dps than altmer right now if would have to be from the crit chance, so reducing the crit and upping the other stuff would bridge that a bit and balance the pvp damage stats more.

dunmer: add something to separate them from altmer

reduce the stam/mag to 1500, keeping the amount higher than khajiit.
give them 1500 physical/spell penetration for 3 seconds after doing a light/heavy attack, 5 second cooldown. if altmer gets primary stat sustain back, up this amount or the mag/stam.

orc: leave as is

unless every race gets minor buffs (altmer gets sustain back) then maybe trade some unflinching passive health for stam regen like the first iteration.

imperial: big rework

2k health, 500 mag, 500 stam
500/500/500 every 5 seconds red diamond
reduced cost of all abilities, block, and bash by 5%
+ something that resembles "calm" from other games, maybe reduced hostile radius

stam/mag/dps/tank, jack of all trades!

nord: more deeps

reduce the resist to 2310 and give them 129 Weapon damage, or buff the ultimate generation to 5 every 5 and nerf the resist, and the stam or health by 500.

the first option is probably a safer bet, but i do like the ult generation for carrying the magicka based nord potential.

bosmer: leave as is, or tie the penetration to something more common/up the duration if other races get buffed up.

maybe make the penetration last for like 6 seconds and the speed last for 3? i would like the penetration to be more consistent in pure dps scenarios, but they probably don't need it. maybe if you haven't been hit with a direct damage attack within 6 seconds, or roll, gain the penetration.

breton: leave as is?

i haven't given breton any thought, taking others word that they are perhaps top of the magicka list.

redguard: give toughness, leave stam as is?

maybe give them 500 health, and maybe alter that flavor passive to heal them when affected by snares like the hist sap set,
(5 items: While you are affected by a disabling effect, immobilization, or snare, you heal for 2500 Health every 1 second.)or barkskin which would trigger when applied and have a 5 second cool down

not sure the value, 400 every 1 second? 800 every 5?

argonian: buff deeps somehow. give some stamina

1k+ stamina, also i like the theme of neutral stats like reduced all cost, ultimate generation, but i cant wrap my head around what to give them. remove the 6% healing done and give them : increase their weapon and spell damage by 193 for 5 seconds after casting a direct damaging ability, or increase their healing done by 9% after casting a direct healing ability 5 second cool down. this might be tricky cause if they followed the same cool down people would have to pay attention to make sure a dps doesn't use vigor when the cd's up and things like that. maybe 129/6% would be enough depending on how their resource return is.

But i do like the sound of this mechanic, buffs healers if they want to heal or dps if they want to dps.

thx for reading, figured if i truly thought these were good ideas id have to get them out in a cohesive list before its too late, whether they are or not i dono

edit: argonian....

tamrielwinner

the changes to stealthy abilities are disappointing. the damage loss to stealth attackers is the biggest nerf out of all changes, with nothing redeeming included.

woodelf loses out the most out of any of the races, currently being one of two great stealth races and soon to be not stealthy.

please reconsider removing the 3s run speed on woodelf, which is somewhat redundant with the bow line and replacing it with additional stealth detect reduction ability and stealth damage bonus.

silvereyes

Increased stealth detection radius for Bosmers seems uniquely wrong. Not just a badly designed part of the kit, but wrong, for one simple reason:

It is the only racial bonus that benefits PvP exclusively.

No other racial passive is impossible to use in PvE content. Many are badly designed so that they require a very specific type of bad build to be useful, or only useful in certain roles or battle conditions, but none are impossible to use in PvE except this one.

Now contrast this with the old bonus to decreased radius of being detected while in stealth.

Detection of enemies in stealth is not equal and opposite to decreased radius of being detected while in stealth. There is an entire justice system and two entire PvE DLCs related to not being seen, and it is also a very useful mechanic in PvP.

@ZOS_Gilliam, please get rid of the stealth detect bonus for Bosmers and give them something that can be used in both PvE and PvP.

zaria

twing1_ wrote: »

I am really worried about the lack of racial identity between the Altmer and Dunmer in the current state of the PTS. My concerns and reasoning with a possible solution are outlined in this thread.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457979/lack-of-racial-identity-between-altmer-and-dunmer#latest

@ZOS_GinaBruno

More nerfs can be arranged very easily.
That would add some racial identity.

Ask for small buffs and demand that nerf are revered.

Khajiit ask for an small block cost reduction, simply to make us an potato race for the potato status effect.
As this one mostly heal or tank Khajiit agree on most buffs outside the one who are idiotic.

Toc de Malsvi

Bosmer dodge roll passive is not very good. But more importantly it only reinforces Bosmer as stamina only class. Magicka cannot make use of the passive enough for spell pen to be of any use nor is the 10% speed that noticeable.

Personally I play mostly stamina, but from time to time I wish to play mag. The most frustrating thing is that I really feel the loss of racial passives if I try to play mag on Bosmer. I really like where Khajit is going and the overall balance of the classes.

I wish Bosmer would get some Magicka support love. Changing the recovery away from % amplifier is a good change that at least makes the passive more useful for Magicka. However if we are going to shoehorn the 3rd passive into negligible benefit, it would be nice to get a 3rd tier passive that is more influential for Magicka than stamina.

Strider__Roshin

Nords are in a bad spot. They're literally only useful for tanking now. Why would I use a Nord over an Orc? Nords get 3690 resistance, 1500 stam, and 1000 health.

Orcs get 258 weapon damage, 2000 stam, and 1000 health.

As an Orc I could slot chuden + pirate skeleton, and have higher mitigation, and higher damage than I would if I were to slot veli + kena on my Nord.

Rungar

changes i would make:

altmer: i would get rid of the channeling and low resource regen and replace with a magic shield strength cap bonus ( equal to 1000-2500 health)

dunmer : lower stam and mag to 1500 but give them the current altmer low resource regen.

orc: lower stam to 1500

imperial: 1500 mag/stam/health

bosmer: get rid of that roll dodge penetration and give flat 750 penetration with bows.

other than that it looks like zos done a great job here.

prototypefb

khajiit and wood elf should have dark stalker passive from vampire - ability to move without movement speed penalty while crouched/stealthed.
atm stealth classes are 99% forced to play vampire

technohic

Daus wrote: »

Nords are in a bad spot. They're literally only useful for tanking now. Why would I use a Nord over an Orc? Nords get 3690 resistance, 1500 stam, and 1000 health.

Orcs get 258 weapon damage, 2000 stam, and 1000 health.

As an Orc I could slot chuden + pirate skeleton, and have higher mitigation, and higher damage than I would if I were to slot veli + kena on my Nord.

If you go medium armor on a Nord, you are similar resist to an Orc in heavy. You then get the weapon damage, and sprint speed, there. You.are short the resources compared to orc but get recovery and cost reduction to ability, roll dodge, sprint; and crit from the medium armor passives.

Not very useful if you look at both in medium for full dps, but for pvp if you want more tankiness while still having damage, it's not awful. We do then get into a matter of if heavy armors passives make it better still to be an orc. That might be an armor discussion though

CurvedSwords123

The_Last_Titan wrote: »

Going to be trying to buff all races to varying levels. I believe altmer got nerfed because the regen created too much power for dunmer to keep up without making them the top stamina dps. so buff everyone or nerf a few, also tie in damage reduction/health/utility to each race. I haven't given some of the races enough thought, so ill stick to some i have.

altmer: more consistent mitigation/add mag sustain and buff most others a tiny bit!

the 5% should be reworked somehow, i would say 5% for 3 seconds after casting an ability. Something that is going to be on a lot more consistently. but i'm guessing the "while channeling" mechanic might be the whole point of the % based modifier so don't know... give them magicka sustain back, but raise some other races if so.

khajiit: balance out the pvp/pve damage side of things a tiny bit.

give them maybe 500 more mag/stam and reduce the crit chance to 6% or 129 wd/sd and put the crit at 4%, not sure if the damage makes more sense on a clawed khajiit or less..up the regen more if high elf gets magicka back.

if khajiit are doing more dps than altmer right now if would have to be from the crit chance, so reducing the crit and upping the other stuff would bridge that a bit and balance the pvp damage stats more.

dunmer: add something to separate them from altmer

reduce the stam/mag to 1500, keeping the amount higher than khajiit.
give them 1500 physical/spell penetration for 3 seconds after doing a light/heavy attack, 5 second cooldown. if altmer gets primary stat sustain back, up this amount or the mag/stam.

orc: leave as is

unless every race gets minor buffs (altmer gets sustain back) then maybe trade some unflinching passive health for stam regen like the first iteration.

imperial: big rework

2k health, 500 mag, 500 stam
500/500/500 every 5 seconds red diamond
reduced cost of all abilities, block, and bash by 5%
+ something that resembles "calm" from other games, maybe reduced hostile radius

stam/mag/dps/tank, jack of all trades!

nord: more deeps

reduce the resist to 2310 and give them 129 Weapon damage, or buff the ultimate generation to 5 every 5 and nerf the resist, and the stam or health by 500.

the first option is probably a safer bet, but i do like the ult generation for carrying the magicka based nord potential.

bosmer: leave as is, or tie the penetration to something more common/up the duration if other races get buffed up.

maybe make the penetration last for like 6 seconds and the speed last for 3? i would like the penetration to be more consistent in pure dps scenarios, but they probably don't need it. maybe if you haven't been hit with a direct damage attack within 6 seconds, or roll, gain the penetration.

breton: leave as is?

i haven't given breton any thought, taking others word that they are perhaps top of the magicka list.

redguard: give toughness, leave stam as is?

maybe give them 500 health, and maybe alter that flavor passive to heal them when affected by snares like the hist sap set,
(5 items: While you are affected by a disabling effect, immobilization, or snare, you heal for 2500 Health every 1 second.)or barkskin which would trigger when applied and have a 5 second cool down

not sure the value, 400 every 1 second? 800 every 5?

argonian: buff deeps somehow. give some stamina

1k+ stamina, also i like the theme of neutral stats like reduced all cost, ultimate generation, but i cant wrap my head around what to give them. remove the 6% healing done and give them : increase their weapon and spell damage by 193 for 5 seconds after casting a direct damaging ability, or increase their healing done by 9% after casting a direct healing ability 5 second cool down. this might be tricky cause if they followed the same cool down people would have to pay attention to make sure a dps doesn't use vigor when the cd's up and things like that. maybe 129/6% would be enough depending on how their resource return is.

But i do like the sound of this mechanic, buffs healers if they want to heal or dps if they want to dps.

thx for reading, figured if i truly thought these were good ideas id have to get them out in a cohesive list before its too late, whether they are or not i dono

edit: argonian....

I agree, the most naturally talented warriors in Tamriel can't take a punch and have low burst potential. That snare reduction is a joke. Rework pls.