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cp overhaul & other ideas 3.0: ACP

Rungar
Rungar
✭✭✭✭✭
Welcome to Rungar's Emporium. Here is where my ideas for eso are laid to rest. Enjoy!

CP Overhaul

This cp system is designed with performance in mind but also advanced gameplay.
Version 3.33

Cp points in general will become obsolete including everything available in the cp system including the 20% stat bonus which will be greatly expanded upon. Instead we will use achievement points ACP to promote a more interesting and balanced gamestyle. Since achievements are core to every game system and are added regularly with all content this would allow people to play the way they want including grinding exp if you wanted to. For most people this would be a great boon to the gameplay and might attract some new blood to the game. This system will now work with your levelling to 50 so you can work on your achievements while you level your character(s) or really any activity you might be interested in.

The idea then would be that you would gain achievement points as you do now but the points now unlock even more useful things as described below. The system would also need to phase out combat upgrades relatively early and feature diminishing returns on investment, while providing a linear long term structure to non combat upgrades, and collectible specializations and skills. This allows you to collect what you need first asap but also provides long-term game-play to collect and try it all. 3.31 There will be no need for additional classes as the new game-play will add skills and specializations to collect instead. Since eso has a achievement possibility of almost 43k my estimate for combat would be 25k which is around half considering new content naturally adds new achievements all the time and most of these you obtain from just playing the game. Also to be considered is the champions legacy achievement (below) 3.31that adds up to 15k points on top of the 43k for a total of 58k total possible points. These and all numbers could be adjusted.

This game has a giant wealth of content that i don't think players fully utilize. I think pairing the extra advancement system with the achievement system will help expand peoples horizons on specific content. I made a necro a few months back and just did delves and leveled to 50 collecting skyshards and that character amassed 4k achievement points without really doing anything special but playing the game. Hasn't run any dungeons, did a little pvp, no trials, very few quests, no tradskills, etc. I really think it can be done and in a very passive way that works with the game instead of against it.

For those who would fear the loss of the champion points they wouldnt be going away as a new achievement called "champion's Legacy" will tally all your exp collected the same as before and give you sizable achievements for gaining the exp so it wont be lost (3.31up to 15000 points equal to cp1500). So you get the best of both worlds. You can still grind out points or you can get them another way or both at the same time.

so to make the achievements work well need to keep the character achievements which will feed into a new category called global achievements which will cherry pick achievements from any of your characters and provide the account based unlocks. I don't think it would be difficult to do that since the global furnishing merchant can do it right now.

Using this system some damage or defense will be sacrificed but utility expanded at the same time.

Group 1: milestones

General
Each achievement point (ACP) gives you a flat health/mag/stam bonus according to 7 tiers.
Tier 1 is 1-2000 achievement points and gives 3000 ( 1.33/acp)
Tier 2 is 2001-5000 and gives 3000 ( 1/acp)
Tier 3 is 5001-8000 and gives 2000 (0.66/acp)
Tier 4 is 8001-12000 and gives 1000( .25/acp)
3.31Tier 5 is 12001-17000 and gives 1000 (0.2/acp)
Tier 6 is 17001-25000 and gives 750 (0.1/acp)
Tier 7 is 25001-50000 and gives 250 (0.01/acp)


3.31A grand total of 10750 health/mag/stam at acp 25000 (less than half of whats possible) but gains suffer diminishing returns ( and a token increase from 25k-50k) so much of it will be collected by acp 8000 ( less than a quarter of whats possible) The bar here is pretty low for combat related items.
The method of using flat base stats is an alternative to cost and damage reductions which will no longer be used , in a general sense, in an effort to reduce and streamline calculations. It works the exactly the same way in the end except the base stats are more flexible and apply to everything. Secondary stats will benefit the most here due to the way primary stats are stacked in this game. Primary stats will also go up but not by nearly as much.

A side effect of this system is that there will be more to heal but this might actually improve healers in the game. As a healer main one of my pet peeves with this game is how fast everyone's health bars drop. You really have to do most of your healing in advance. It would be nice if players had more health overall to improve the healer role specifically.

Using this system some damage will be sacrificed but utility expanded at the same time.

Food and drink

At acp 1000 you can now use both food and drink at the same time but can only use a green recipe for the second choice @50% penalty ( percentages are listed but only flat rates will be used).
At acp 2000 you can use a blue recipe @50% penalty
At acp 5000 you can use a purple recipe @50% penalty
At acp 8000 you can use a gold recipe @50% penalty
At acp 12000 the penalty is any recipe @49% penalty
At acp 17000 the penalty is any recipe @48% penalty
At acp 23000 the penalty is any recipe @47% penalty
3.31At acp 30000 both your food and drink last for an extra half hour(+30)
At acp 40000 both your food and drink last for an extra hour ( +30)
At acp 50000 both your food and drink last for an hour and a half (+30)


In all cases the second choice operates at a 47-50% penalty depending on your acp. This is to partially compensate for the loss of some of the dmg, mitigation and sustain enhancements available in the cp trees currently. Food and drink will now last for 4 hours each plus passives.

Utility barslot

At acp 1500 you can unlock the utility barslot. This slot is common to both bars and you can slot any non ultimate but cannot be activated. As such switching weapons has no effect on this slot. It is completely independent. Only passive will apply.
At acp 4000 you gain full functionality of the new slot and can now activate it as you would any other slot. Yes this can easily work on a controller. I play with a controller.
3.3At cp 8000 you get a 2% cost reduction to whatever is slotted there.
At acp 12000 you get a 3%
At acp 18000 you get a 4%
At acp 25000 it maxes out at a 5% cost reduction for that skill slot.


Major and Minor Mundus

At acp 500 you gain the double mundus ability (twice born star will be revamped) but similar to the food and drink milestone the second mundus operates at a lower efficiency. At acp 500 it is 30%. I list the percentages but you only get the flat rate. As opposed to improving everything by a set percent you now have to choose again which one you want.
At acp 1500 it is 38%
At acp 3500it is 43%
At acp 6000 it is 47%
At acp 9000is is 48%
At acp 11000 it is 49%
At acp 16000 it is 50%
3.31At acp 25000 you gain the mundus transport ability which will teleport you to the closest known mundus ( requires 5 soul gems).
At acp 40000 your mundus transport will let you transport to any known mundus in the zone( requires 4 soul gems)
at acp 50000 your mundus transport will let you transport to any known mundus in the game (requires 3 soul gems)


Armor Cap

At acp 1750 the armor cap is raised to 55%
At acp 3250 the armor cap is raised to 58%
At acp 7500 the armor cap is raised to 59%
At acp 12500 the armor cap is raised to 60%

a 60% armor cap is required to balance the dmg reduction cps for tanks. This also makes armor more important again for everyone since it replaces the current dmg reductions ( in addition to the inherent health bonus offered by the new system). The armor system is multiplicative so it shouldnt change the end result much of other forms of mitigation on top of that.

Since blocking will be more important in general due to the loss of passive mitigation ( partially mitigated with larger health pools and thus larger shields) one shot mechanisms will be relaxed a little with the knockout system.

3.31 Replacing the oneshot in addition to the above will be the "knockout" ability some bosses will have. The knockout ability , if you fail to block and would of died to the dmg and if the boss has the capability ( limitation) there is a chance to knock you down instead, stunning you for 5 seconds and leaving you with 1% health/mag/stam , throwing you across the room like a rag doll. The chance of you scoring a knockout instead of death is related to your armor rating. If you are knocked out you gain a "woozy" debuff meaning you cannot be knocked out (saved) again. The higher your armor the better your chance to be knocked out this according to below. The knockout function is limited to boss heavy attacks and other special moves that usually result in a single target oneshot. It is not meant to cover all situations.

0-10k armor = 10% chance
10.1-20k arm =20% chance
20.1-25k arm= 30% chance
25.1-30k arm =40% chance
30.1-33k arm=50% chance
33.1- 35k arm= 60% chance
35k+ arm 75% chance


Class identity

at acp 1600, and 3100 your class abilities in your dmg line will successively scale from the highest offensive stats ( mag or stam) ( just like the dk's inferno)
at acp 3750 and 5100 your class abilities successively from your healing line will scale from your highest stats ( non healling components)
at acp 5900, and 7050 your class abilities successfully from your tank line will scale from your highest stats
Note that for each class only 2 abilities per line get this boost for a total of 6 class abilities.

the exception to this system is abilities that scale off health in any way ( like most new heals) which will remain the same. Additionally the resource cost does not change so if it costed magic before it still does. The idea is to give class abilities a little more flexibility than non class skills so players will still feel like the class they play regardless of whether they choose mag or stam. It should also be remembered that this acp system will augment your offstats significantly making this even more useful.

These six milestones will yield a similar return as players get from the acp system now but still offer choices in how they go about that in ways that already exist within the game with hopefully minimal calculations required.

Group 2: Alternate Abilities

Group 2 has alternate versions of abilities in the weapons skills and guild lines which are generally enhanced. These skills are slottable only in the new utility slot.Thus you can only have one active at a time per character. Each weapon line and guild line will have two new abilities to choose from. 3.31 Each line will feature both an active ability and an an ability with a passive component. You have to have the appropriate standing and acp to unlock the abilities. In addition these abilities may (or may not) have a quest component that is required to be completed before you can unlock the ability. This could be a simple as unlocking the ultimate for a weapon line, maxing out a guild rank or could be more intensive.
You get your first ability at acp 900 and you can unlock another ability every 1000 acp so you can unlock all of them and can collect them all and can reset them on an account basis. You can choose them in any order based on your preference.

These abilities will center around dmg type variants to support the specialization system as well as stam/mag variants for dps and variants of what i call critical utility skills for tanks and healers to help fill in class and build gaps. These will not be brand new super-powered skills but more toward popular skills with alternate parameters.There is no order to them so you can get what you need first and collect the rest at your leisure. None of these skills will have morphs as they are meant to be a third morph option to select popular skills from the weapons and guild lines with a few exceptions for critical role skills.

examples:

frost rune : same as fire rune but frost dmg
blue vigor: mag version of vigor
magic trap: mag version of rearming trap
poison slash: poison dmg variant of twin slashes
diseased shrapnel cloud: disease version of steel tornado
Lions blood: weaker version of dragons blood with a different passive

Group 3: specialization packages

Each package is tailored to a specific type of playstyle or role. Each one is unique but usually includes offensive defensive and utility bonuses (and penalties) related to that style. There are three levels to specialization Adept, Expert and Master.

The points are set up so you can have two choices but only one of those choices can escalate to master and only one of those choices can escalate to expert. These also suffer diminishing returns so the difference between adept and master is not overwhelming combat damage wise. Expert and Master levels will include more utility instead and minimal dmg upgrades.

At acp 2500 you get your first choice
At acp 5000 you get your second choice

At acp 9000 you can upgrade one to expert
at acp 12000 you can upgrade either another to expert or one to master
at acp 18000 you get the final upgrade

Here are some examples based off of the damage types but it could be anything :

Wizard ( fire)
Thaumaturge ( frost)
Magus ( lightning)
Elementalist ( fire,frost,lightning)

Snake master (Poisoner)
Rat Master (Disease)

Man at arms (physical/generalist)
Magician (magic/generalist)

Light Armor Specialist
Medium Armor Specialist
Heavy Armor Specialist

Diviner ( healing)
Sidekick (Combat Support, general)
Adventurer (General)
Ranger (stealth/utility)

Rogue ( poison/stealth/utility)

Class thematic/specific specializations

Active ability classes: These classes get a similar themed active ability to control creatures. This is a charm type slottable ability that lets players control mobs and use them as pets. You have to go get the pet and if it dies you have to go get another one. Each theme is determined by the class. ( its sort of in the game now, baby wasps)

Sorcerer: Summoner: active ability to control daedra and elementals
Necromancer: Dominator: active ability to control undead
Warden: Tamer: active ability to tame animals

in all cases the adept line gives the basic ability and the expert and master gives more types of creatures in that theme to control and some extra utility. For instance the necromancer master ability would be to animate the dead, allowing them to either raise a corpse (npc corpse) as the pet or animate their current pet one more time.

Passive class abilities: These classes get passive abilities which are activated when certain creatures are slain in battle. This is a passive style buff system. Each class has their own Specific theme and available buffs.

Akatosh's Wisdom: Gives Dragonknights unique offensive and defensive buffs when killing daedra and elementals respectively.
Priest of Arkay: Gives Templars unique defensive buffs when killing undead
Hircines Huntsmen: Gives Nightblades unique offensive buffs when killing animals

Each of the three levels determines both what creatures can confer buffs and what buffs they confer as well as the length of the abilities.

General outline (example)Specializations would have a package of skills, some unique skills. i.e you can only get frost/ice dmg bonus for choosing to specialize in frost. The higher the specialization the more perks you get. The lower levels focus on dmg and the higher ones on utility. The lower levels would be missing some of these from below. Below are some examples its not meant to be complete by any means.

General outline for offensive dmg types theme

1) you get an increase modifier of that specific dmg type. General types like physical and magic receive less an increase because of their more varied usefulness.
2) you get a better chance to apply a conditionof that type with a light attack
3) You get natural resistance to that dmg type
4) You get a natural weakness to the opposing element.
5) you get an increase in duration of that dmg types dots
6) your light attacks have a unique behavior
7) your heavy attacks have a unique behavior
8) other unique abilities such as a mag regen/ health regen bonus when you are hit by dmg of that type and other special abilities related to that type.

general outline for defensive armor types

1) bonus of armor to that type per piece ( remember armor is more important now that hardy etc is gone)
2) flat rate cost reduction/enhancements suitable to armor type per piece ( block cost for heavy/dodge cost for medium/ sprint cost for light)
3) 50% less negative natural attribute ( see armor changes below 2.2.9) for that armor type per piece.
4) Reduction to snares ( light), stuns (heavy), off balance (medium)
5) other unique abilities that modify the behavior of your light attacks when wearing only one kind of armor: Commander passive: light attacks in 7 heavy now taunt enemies for 5 seconds, Magic shoes passive that allows your sprint to cost magicka if your wearing all light armor, Hunter passive that adds a strong snare to your light attacks if your in all medium armor.

general outline for Healing & support specialties

1) increased healing
2) increased duration of buffs
3) increased time of healing dots
4) increase in synergy effects
5) faster resurrections
6) unique behavior to light attacks
7) unique behavior to heavy attacks

collecting specializations. You will be able to unlock all the specializations through through the npc guild ( i.e fighters guild etc) questing. This requires a certain level within the specific npc guild to start a specialization and advancement as well as the required acp. Each specialization will have its own questline to complete. The questline has three components for the three levels of the specialization. The higher they go the more challenging/involved they get.

Changing specializations. Other parts of the acp system like mundus and food and drink are pretty straight forward in changing and is meant to be done on the fly but the specialization system will be slightly more involved. Each specialization will be assigned to one of the npc guilds the specialization is attuned to. you just have to go to the appropriate guild and make the change for each one, though that might require visiting multiple npc guilds depending on what you want to change to. Soulgems will be the currency of change and a number of them will be required every time you make a change as they "power" the specialization change system". It will be done in a gameplay mode where you have to set the soulgems and stand in the center .

Group 4: non combat abilities

this group has everything non or not directly combat related. You can select one for every 1000 acp you collect starting at acp 700. You can collect them all.

adventuring:
Mount speed
lockpicking
pickpocket
swimming speed
fall dmg
armor repair costs
vendor prices ( purchasing)
vendor prices ( selling)
lucky strike treasure enhancement
lucky strike gold enhancement

harvesting enhancements:
ore & metals
wood & ingredients
Cloth & leather

crafting enhancements:
blacksmithing improved chance with less tempers
jewelcraft improved chance with less platings
woodworking improved chance with less resins
tailoring improved chance with less tannins
alchemy chance to make more potions or poisons
cooking chance to make more food or drink
enchantment chance to make an additional enchantment

lower amount of base materials for blacksmithing
lower amount of base materials for Clothing
lower amount of base materials for woodworking
lower amount of base materials for jewelcraft

misc:
pet replacement skins
teleportation cost reduction
wardrobe change cost reduction
rider training cooldown reduction
transmutation cost reduction

Overall the change goes from simply collecting points to distribute to collecting more abilities which not only provides interesting ways to deck out your character but also long term collection strategy (content) since in all cases you can collect them all but in most cases only use one at a time.

Other Changes:

3.33 Fishing: you will now be able to catch monsters. Beware.

3.32 healing overhaul
All in game heals will be calculated differently. Now all heals will feature a health scaling component ( application of sorcerers shield strength formula to most heals) in addition to max resource and dmg modifier(spell or weapon dmg).
This is to promote a healing style that is more useful with off tanking capabilities since healers will now be rewarded for high health and thus heavy armor. The vision is a hybrid role where health, resources and damage modifiers are more balanced opening up the healing role to the off tank role in dungeons and trials. Dps healing will be negatively affected but this may also promote incentives for dps to have a little more health rather than focus exclusively on dps, especially for dungeons. This change also works with the blocking changes to alleviate some of the blocking losses that would be incurred by tanks when they block ( minus weapon and spell dmg)



3.1 UI Achievements

Some achievements will now unlock basic UI functions ( mostly for consoles)
after you complete x number of items and achieve the achievement the ui unlocks locations:
treasure maps location
survey maps location
skyshards
lorebooks
lazy crafter

3.31Buffs

All buffs will be increased by 20-25%% duration to improve performance.


3.1Animation Cancelling for dps

Animation cancelling for dps will be removed to improve general performance. This one thing is the root cause for many of eso problems. Whether its general performance, cheaters, unpopular dungeons, content avoidance it all links back to this one mechanic. It is well know that many macro in this game and it is a shame that has been allowed to continue so long considering all the negative impacts it has on the playerbase. With the following system macros will be of limited use and at the same time most players will experience an overall performance boost. This will be accomplished by putting light, heavy attacks, barswap and bash on the global timer. Blocking with staves will now lower your spell dmg by 400 and stop magica regen for 3 seconds and blocking with staves will always cost magicka if you have a staff equipped. Blocking with melee weapons will also stop your stamina regen and lower your weapon dmg by 400 for 3 seconds. Roll dodge will remain as is. Changing weapons should cost something , at least a global cooldown.

Improvement to light attacks will come in the form of extra utility through the specialization system and you would be able to select different types of light attacks similar to how you would select a potion. You will be able to pick what form of basic attack suits you best. Additionally all skills will do an additional 15% across the board dmg to compensate for the loss of light attack spam. Light attacks will now be within the confines of "resources determine everything" and thus have a secondary use for applying enchants, conditions, generating ultimate and becoming functional utility themed skills and will not be primary dmg abilities. 3.31 the reality here is that light/heavy attacks will become just another skill slot with the advantage that it can be changed in combat and has dual firing modes ( light and heavy).

This will allow people to focus only on their skill rotations and ability to evade mechanics as the "over the top/went too far" aspect has been removed while bringing up the floor with the 15% across the board dmg boost. The vast majority of players will benefit greatly from these very simple changes. 3.31This will slow down the game a little for dps but i dont think this is necessarily a bad thing for most of the playerbase. This will also obliterate macroing and dramatically reduce overachieving players apm to a reasonable level. Casual players wont notice any real change.

Light attack selection

You will now be able to collect and use on the fly different kinds of light attacks. These skills will use a dedicated version of the potion wheel. While the specialization system adds utility to your light attacks the selection system changes how you light attack does dmg. Variants will include staves: point blank (pbaoe), beam(channel), and doubleshot ( two lower powered attacks). Melee weapons will include lunging ( longer range), piercing ( more penetration), and defensive ( increase armor). Bows will have a bit of both with doubleshot, piercing, and longrange ( longer range). These are balanced around the current light attack and for example the pbaoe attack wouldnt hit as hard as a standard light attack but might be more useful in combination with a specialization ability or situation. Combined with specialization functionality this makes for interesting and collectable gameplay since you can collect all the styles. For instance a pbaoe attack with a staff in 7 heavy armor is a very small area effect taunt for 5 seconds.

each of these must be quested for and are account wide like the alternate abilities. You can change these like you would change a potion in combat with the wheel.

Ultimates

Cast times on ultimates will be removed but the ultimate cost will be increased and dmg decreased instead to reflect their lack of travel time. Additionally you will not be able to cancel the animations of these or any ultimates. If you cast an ultimate you are committed to it for the time it takes to complete the casting animation. This will make sure ultimates are responsive but not abusable. 3.31Where possible all ultimates will be given a "projectile" which mimics a cast time but in a gameplay sense.


Armor changes

Enhancing the offstats with the flat rate method allows the use of basic negative modifiers for each armor type. These penalties can be reduced by up to 50% by specializing in specific armor. While percentages are shown only the actual value will apply.

Heavy armor penalty per piece worn ( flat rate, percentages shown for simplicity)
Sprint cost 2%
Dodge cost 2%

medium penalty per piece worn
Sprint cost 1%
Block cost 2%

light penalty per piece worn
Block cost 3%

Enchantment changes

Enchantments/poisons will no longer proc from weapon skills but will now only proc from cooldown on light and heavy attacks to improve performance. Enchantments will now also do more dmg or last longer than before. Poisons will also proc on cooldown and will be updated to reflect that.

Crit resistance ---complete

A baseline amount of crit resistance, the amount available through cp now will be added to battlespirit. Other forms of crit resistance will remain as is.There will no longer be a need to change cp to pvp.

Changes to procsets

Procs from proc sets will now cost some of your ultimate pool. A basic 1-20 cost depending on the set. 3.31 Defensive sets would be very cheap ( 2-5) , indirect offensive sets (4-8) single target damage ( 7-14) and aoe dmg (13-20). This is to add a gameplay element to the proc sets and some conditions on use. With the new rules "most" proc sets will have a 100% chance if you have the ultimate saved up. Procs wont fire without ultimate so this balances how many proc sets it is reasonable to wear at a time. Offenceive dmg procs are generally more expensive than defensive or stat boosting procs.

Destruction staff changes

A number of changes are required specifically to the destruction staves line.

wall of elements will now do the base dmg of the staff type rather than magic dmg
Destructive clench base dmg will be elemental based on the staff used
force shock and its morphs will now only do one kind of dmg depending on the staff equipped
elemental ring morph will do the dmg of the staff type

trifocus :
frost heavy attacks will no longer taunt the enemy. Frost heavy attacks are now a channel and will snare enemies while the channel is in effect
equipping any destruction or restoration staff will now cause you to block with the magicka pool. This is no longer a passive but a base attribute of the weapon when equipped.

3.33 Survey Housing
New houses will be available for gold and crown store that will give you a chance when you obtain a survey to be on the property you own. It will work as follows:
mine: ores ( jewelry and blacksmithing)
woodlot ( hides & wood)
meadow ( alchemy and linens)
mid tier gold purchasable houses will have one or two of these attached and the highest end homes will have all three. If you have the proper achievements when you obtain a survey on your account you have a chance for that survey being on your property instead of in the world. The crown highest end homes would be the most convenient as they have all three possible nodes.

NPC guild overhaul

The npc guilds will be upgraded as an alternate way to naturally form groups based on the activities your interested with. Much less mechanical and simplified than the groupfinder but also applicable to many more activities and maintains player choice. No fancy coding or matchmaking required. Let people work themselves out.

fighters guild will be focused on trials and arenas
Mages guild will be focused on overland ( questing, delves, public dungeons)
undaunted guild will be focused on 4 man dungeons
thieves guild will be based on stealing
dark brotherhood will be based on assassination
There will additionally be an alliance guild ( one for each alliance ) which is focused on pvp
One final npc guild will be an global achievement based guild based on the psijic order.

all guilds will have 5 chats you can view which correlates to your standing in the guild based on its focus based on what youve completed ingame according to the content type. Unlike the acp system these chats are opened when specific achievements are aquired like "stormproof". This is a natural way to allow like minded players the ability to form groups on the fly while maintaining their choice of who they want to group with. So each guild will have 5 different levels/ranks and each level will have its own chat you need to unlock by doing a specific content type.

you wont have to use craglorn anymore to beg for a trial. Just go to the fighters guild and join that guild and get the fighters guild channel available to you. It works seamlessly with players achievements. Its just another way to get groups. Since the chats are based on your accomplishments within the theme it should work itself out.

These are not world chats you will actually have to go to the appropriate guild structure to join in the chat. 3.33 Note that each guild is separate from the others. The fighters guild in one alliance will be separate from the fighters guild in another alliance. This could be further separated to local guilds or guild clusters within the alliance if necessary. Only the psyjic order would deviate from this strategy.

you will only be able to join two of these at a time per character which should be no issue for most players but also keeps the numbers spread a bit and maintains the focus of the guild. You also cant join these guilds until you meet the minimum requirements which are related to your achievements in that category.

the cool part is that the things you do while a member of those npc guilds builds up the entire guild ( like dragonhold) for everyone, and individually which is gameplay in of itself. Unlocking special vendors, quests, items that cant be gotten otherwise ( like a version of the golden that sells items you cant purchase elsewhere) etc. It just adds depth to the game in a way the groupfinder never could. It also takes pressure off the automated groupfinder which should help it work a little better for those that want to use it. The groupfinder would be limited to basegame and normal mode dungeons.

additionally
3.33 You will now be able to sell your CRAFTED and SPECIFIC (depending on the guild type) goods through the existing npc guilds( fighters,mages etc) without the requirement for a guild trader. You will not be able to sell as many items and the fees will be greater, however the fees actually build up the guild structure. The new npc traders will all be within the local guilds they represent, off the beaten path, so to speak. This is to ensure there is a limited option to sell for those who have guilds with no trader or who don’t have guilds. Note that these items will only be seen by those in the guilds chosen above. It is not as robust as the player guild traders and only includes completed crafted items.

3.32 Friends list and guilds overhaul
You will no longer be notified when a friend comes online or goes offline. Additionally your friends list will be broken up into two headers. Friends and acquaintances. Your friends list will show when they are online and the other one you have to manually check. Guilds will also only be updated when you log in and you can manually request to see whose online. There is really no need to be maintaining giant lists of players who have little to no consequence on your gameplay most of the time.


Basic, Normal, and vet Cyrodiil

3.31 Cyrodiil will have only three campaigns. basic training rank 0-5 ( for new pvpers and pve players who dont like pvp), Normal cyrodiil will be for players alliance ranks 6-25 and vet cyrodiil will be for players rank 26+ based of your accounts highest alliance rank. Though anyone can choose to play the vet campaign at any rank. This is designed to give new players a running chance to get used to pvp before being chased away/ constantly rolled over by the hardcore crowd. The under 50 and no cp will be retired as no one uses them anyhow. Battlegrounds will be similarly divided. New players MUST be given a chance to have fun in cyrodiil.

3.31 Group Frames
Group frames will be disabled in cyrodiil not only to improve performance but to also make larger groups more difficult to organize.


3.31 Imperial City
Telvar losses will be reduced to 25% from 50% to entice more players to play there. At the moment the 50% loss is too much incentive for gank playstyles and too little incentive for average players. Additionally player gains will be limited to their own inventory of telvar times their own multiplier. So for instance you kill a player who had 40k and thus loses 10k telvar on death. If you kill this player and have no telvar you get nothing. You would require 3300 of your own telvar with a 3x multiplier to get it all. This will be a boon to all players because players will now be more likely to keep telvar on them.


3.31Housing and Character Selection
The new character selection screen will be a house of your choosing. You will be able to "dock" all your characters in your house, access their inventories and change characters. Now when you log out you will be given the option to "Head home". Only characters that have been logged off in your home will be accessible. Characters logged off out in the world will not be accessible until they are. The designated "house" will still be used for all logins ( or the default if you dont have this functionality yet) but you will reappear where you last logged out.

Many people log in and out to manage inventory and this system aims to streamline and reduce the excessive logging of characters. Only one home can be designated as a login cabin and these are specially made "Home Bases" designed with minimal caps to allow for the characters. Designs wont be like regular homes but rather taverns, mines, lairs, sewers, etc. and other unique locations specifically built with this functionality in mind. No furnishings other than storage, no visitors etc.


Dungeon Overhaul

Dungeons in eso are a mixed bag. Many of the base game vet dungeons are quite fun and can be accomplished with random people. They offer a medium challenge on vet for many players. The dlc dungeons eclipse or at least with the wolfhunter dlc appear to eclipse that medium challenge. This is good for a very small number of players but for most players it results in two things: 1) do it once and dont go back, 2) Avoid it altogether. These heavy mechanic dungeons are more like trials in that you need a set group, you have to train yourself to learn the mechanics and even when youve done all that you quickly forget and relegate the content to the "dont want to go back" bin. Ideally, like the base game dungeons, we want repeatable content that players want to go back to. Almost nobody wants the " throw yourself at it until your fingers remember what to do". Its well known that its difficult to find people to do this content once people have done it themselves.

We need to move away from the failed "boss" mechanics to more "global" mechanics while retaining aspects of the legacy system . This strategy will give players more time to strategize the solution to the dungeon and give them less overall "twitchie" dungeons to play in. A different kind of challenge. Dungeons will also feature advanced gameplay like having to split up your forces, the use of stealth, repairing doors and seigecraft, mechanics that require maintenance, secondary objectives, random elements, optional challenge objectives, and the implementation of global conditions which will vary from dungeon to dungeon. This also provides solo, duo and trio integrated content into the dungeons for extra variety in play.

These dungeons will require less overall twitchie combat, but that component will still be there for the higher difficulty ( usually the optional bosses) but that aspect will be changed somewhat where you will be able to better lean on the stronger players in the group who are better equipped and have the right skill to get the job done. Gone will be the kick weak players routine. We will rather reallocate them to easier tasks in the dungeon. This lets them participate and learn. This gives the stronger players a leadership role in the dungeon where they can succeed and be the hero at the same time. Its pretty simple but requires a different way of thinking than what your used to. Most importantly this gives time to players. You will be able to talk to players again as rushing forward wont finish the dungeon any faster.

there will be no more normal or vet as the new dungeons difficulty will be based on completing the conditions. The rewards for the dungeons will vary based on players overall performance in relation to the conditions.

this is meant to be a less frustrating and more interesting model for dungeons where you can actually improve over time and be rewarded for it and to provide better support to pug play and premades with variable in dungeon challenge.

consider the following example of a basic radial dungeon.

Library of Dusk v 2.0 : Lower Vault (dungeon)

you all come down a long stairwell that leads to a large room surrounded by a number of smaller catacombs. In the middle of the room is a large caged off area with a sign over saying that only 2 may enter. Two enter here and the timer starts and the other two must search for the proper sequence of books. Opening the wrong book spawns mobs ( aka army of darkness :))and/or bosses in the cage which the other two players must deal with.While the dungeon is in play the boss will taunt you from the other side and some of these taunts will contain hints. Like other dungeons youll also have a helper npc to give clues and explain whats going on during the dungeon. When the proper sequence is completed the other side of the cage opens leading you to the final boss and all players regroup to defeat it. Some books switch players in and out of the cage, teleport you around, spawn chests, weaken the boss, strengthen the boss, activate traps, deactivate traps etc.

The catacombs are also infested and have roamer mini bosses for added chaos. One of the catacombs has an optional challenge boss players can engage if they wish to. In addition to this there is an optional book collection quest that can be completed while the dungeon is running. Finally there is the "visitor" which is a character youve seen elsewhere in the game who may or may not show up anywhere at any time even while your fighting the boss. You do not have to fight everything.

Random component: the sequence books are shuffled each time the dungeon is run so you cannot just remember where they are.

Fail condition: over the top of the cage is a chain that lowers a spike as soon as you start the timer. You have 60 minutes to complete the dungeon before the spike hits causing the dungeon to be "over" , meaning you all get booted with no reward. You cannot enter the catacombs until the timer starts. You can interact with the chain crank outside the cage to buy a little more time. This is done by bashing the crank and can get you an extra 10 minutes. the chain spike is the visual timer. you wont get a sign that says 52 minutes remaining.

Win Conditions

Completing the dungeon within the 60 minutes will yield a basic chest. The minimal reward
completing the dungeon within 60 minutes and defeating the optional boss or the "book collection" yields the advanced chest.
completing the dungeon within 60 minutes, defeating the optional boss ( who also drops the monster helm) and completing the "book collection" yields the expert chest.
completing the dungeon within 40 minutes and defeating the optional boss and completing the "book collection" yields the Master chest.

as you can see these dungeons might take multiple runs to achieve the top rewards and you cant just "reset the fight" your way through it until you " learn" to beat it. Also the hardest parts are optional parts so if the party isnt up to it it can be avoided. The focus is taken off dps, and put on survival, teamwork and problem solving where it should be. Typical player setups might be closer to pvp setups than traditional pve as you might have to be self reliant for parts of the dungeon so this offers players more interesting options in terms of setup. Youll still have an advantage with high dps but it wont be the only factor. This is by design to address a few of the varying metas like making extreme dps builds not quite as advantageous as currently opening up more ways to build a character and also being a little more familiar gear wise to the pvp crowd.

Example#2

Nightmare Mansion in Rivenspire

You are tasked with fighting your way into the mansion and then holding it until dawn keeping as many people in the mansion alive as possible. This dungeon is also a radially design but also has vertical levels to it. Your team fights your way into the courtyard and makes its way to the mansion's broken front door. Once your inside the door must be repaired with wood available in the mansion ( upstairs). zombies will attack the door for the entire duration of the dungeon so the door must be repaired periodically or youll have to fight the zombies.

once inside you have to rescue all the people in the mansion who are in different rooms upstairs and bring them back to the main chamber. Vampires and zombies and mini-bosses spawn from the basement and come upstairs so you will have to hold off these enemies while someone goes to collect the survivors. Down in the basement is the optional vampire lord boss and an optional quest to find the silver totem.

Random component: find the silver totem in the basement which is in a different location each time you play the dungeon.

fail conditions:
all players die ( simultaneously)
all npc survivors die

win conditions:

basic chest: At least one party member and at least one npc survivor, make it until dawn ( 60 minutes). There is no "timer" except the light that comes through a window. It is another visual cue.
advanced chest: at least one party member survives until dawn and at least 4 npcs survivors make until dawn.
expert chest: at least one party member survives until dawn and at least 6 npc survivors make it until dawn and either the optional boss defeated or silver totem found.
master chest: at least two party members survive until dawn, at least 10 survivors make it until dawn the optional boss is defeated, and the silver totem found.

This type of dungeon reduces the need to specialized roles. Instead of tank you might just need "tanky" which will give the groupfinder some more flexibility in assigning groups. pvp style builds would be more effective here than traditional extreme pve builds which are not well rounded.

Example #3

The in of body experience at the wyrd tree underroot

this dungeon is a forced first person dungeon meaning that the 3rd person camera will be disabled for certain portions of the dungeon. It will be annoying and awk-wyrd but you will adapt because its part of the challenge.

the wyrd tree is is under attack from within. Daedric forces have excavated tunnels under the wyrd tree and are trying to poison the roots. Your mission is to get down there and deal with the daedra and protect the tree.

this is a radial dungeon with multiple levels. The wyrd tree main root is in the center of the main chamber and is massive which creates a large ring you need to defend at multiple positions from daedra that are being portal'ed in. Outside the main room is the catacombs but some of these are openly visible to the main chamber but on different levels to the main room. The new crossbow thingy will be used in select spots.

You do this by destroying the portal generators that are set up in the catacombs off the main chamber. In this dungeon one person has to stay behind, ideally your healer, and heal the root nodes all around the main root. Only one tunnel is open in this one but there are three others will open if someone doesn't stay behind to heal the nodes. The lone player must heal the nodes and fight off any mobs encountered while the other three must go find the portal generators and destroy them. The wyrd tree will also assist the lone player when it can. and there is the dragonguard crossbow in certain areas so players can go back and forth as needed.

The other three must travel the catacombs and find the all portal generators and destroy them. The portal generators are positioned randomly in the catacombs each time the dungeon is reset. In addition there is a optional boss in the catacombs as in other dungeons and my favorite part the spirit inhibitors which are also randomly placed.

The spirit inhibitor prevents you from using the 3rd person camera mode while you are in very general proximity to them and prevents the wyrd tree from helping the lone player. The inhibitors are daedric inventions that prevent the wyrd tree from helping out but they have the side effect of disabling your "out of body" view aka 3rd person camera. They are an optional part of the dungeon and that's also how you will know your getting close to them.

win conditions
Basic Chest : kill all the portal generators before the wyrd tree dies
Advanced chest: all the portals and either the optional boss or the inhibitors
Expert chest : all the portals and the optional boss and the inhibitors
Master chest: all the above and all the the "nodes" healed and defended

lose conditions:
all players die
too many wyrd tree nodes die

random components: portal and inhibitor placements

This is a healer required but no healer support oriented dungeon.

3.32 Writs and crafting
New writs will be available for those who join the new npc guild structure. The new writs focus solely on the improvement of the guilds ( like Dragonhold) and so every writ completed contributes to certain goals that all players in the guild can make use of according to their achievements. These new writs will be limited to three characters per day. These writs will not yield material rewards but rather achievement rewards and monetary rewards. These achievements will allow crafters to access to the guild structure but not the combat achievement based chats. Examples include sales slots for selling crafted gear within the guild and expansion of those slots, Discounted vendors and other crafting related perks


In addition to the organic style additions it can be seen in the design that many aspects have a npc guild association. In elder scrolls lore the guilds were a main feature of the game. This brings that back with the specialization system rooted in the guilds, as well as the new guild based and expanded groupfinder and expanded guild structure.

These changes are designed to improve the ESO experience for the average player both from a performance and gameplay perspective while giving some longer term reasonable incentives to continue to progress. All of these things i've mentioned can easily be done in eso should they be up for the challenge. For the dungeon changes this all available in eso right now through the quest/pledge engine so nothing new is required here. ESO has become a game of exclusion through its combat, dungeon and trial systems. Maybe these systems could use some improvement.

you work this into a chapter by providing some of it in the base game ( acp, milestones select alternate abilities and select specializations) and some of it in the chapter. So certain specializations and alternate abilities would be only available in new chapter zones and others would be available in older zones. This way everyone gets a taste but they need to get the expansion to access it all which i consider fair considering the ESO business model.

Feel free to use what you like. These ideas are for the benefit of ESO. A good game that could still be great.


Edited by Rungar on September 5, 2020 12:04PM
Its over. You just don't know it yet.

Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • Vigawatt
    Vigawatt
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    I'm hesitant to comment with constructive feedback because I know this post will be deluged with comments saying this is horrible.

    While I would love more diversity in skills, like your specialization ideas for Group 3, I think new skills as part of the CP change is out of the question. CP now is a series of modifiers, whereas new skills would take a whole lot more programming and such.

    Group 1 is an interesting idea but I wonder if it could still be construed as something like power creep. Power creep is identified as the problem with the current CP system.

    Therefore, I think something like Group 4, the lamest option, is the most likely. The quickest way to eliminate power creep would be to take all the power out of CP.
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The current CP system is more or less "Ok" but it has some flaws that cause two major pain points:

    1. Lack of flexibility - we need to be able to fully customize CP, in accordance with our preferred play-style, role etc.
    2. Progression vs Power Creep - Those two are hard to balance, as they will always interfere with each other. That is why we have CP cap of 810, which was not increased for a long time.

    As RPG MMO goes, there are 2 types of players:
    - One group thinks that progression should be infinite, I play one character a lot, this character should be better & better.
    - The other group will say that there should be limited progression, so every one would be on the same level.

    Both of those points are valid and correct, and that is the problem. However, I do believe that this can be done in a manner that will satisfy both "groups".

    The general idea:
    We have 3 types of recurses: Magicka, Health, Stamina
    We have 3 types of build: Magicka, Stamina, Hybrid
    We have 3 roles: Tank, Healer, DPS

    The idea is to make Different CP trees to offer similar bonuses, but with different bonus values, depending on what you will decide to invest. For example, a Stamina "tree" will offer 15% Stamina recovery, but Stamina / Magicka will offer 10% Stamina recovery and 5% Magicka recovery. etc.
    The non-combat passives (like treasure hunter for example) could be simply moved outside of CP "tree" and be simply a bonus once you get certain amount of AP, no matter where you will decide to put them.
    (Sorry for poor graphics, I was in a hurry) :
    BbSnoRj.jpg
    As for the actual "end tree" passives, I have no clue what those could be, just proposed a general thought.

    And when it comes to Progression vs Power Creep, I was thinking... Is it possible to have a CP soft cap, so lets say the current cap is 810. If you have more, you would still be able to put them, but they will give almost no benefit.
    For example, when you reach the cap, you would need 100 CP in order to have the same effect as below the cap 1 CP. The more you put, the less effective it would be. Eventually you would need 1000, 10000, etc.
  • Jodynn
    Jodynn
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    This is an interesting post with many changes in mind

    I'm not against changing to CP system; however I'm fine with the current CP as it is now as well.

    I've put a lot of effort into my builds but there are a lot of CP stars that are useless without a doubt.

    A blanket change like this is very unwise at this moment in time, however some changes would be nice.

    I like the sound of fire mastery.
    Jodynn PC NA
    PvE and PvP MagDK
  • Rungar
    Rungar
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    if you like the game you have to throw out the ideas even if they wont use them.

    The goal of my system was to remove as many " tacked on" percentage modifiers as possible and make the system a little more organic in nature using the food system, mundus system and the mastery system which skyrim/elder scrolls players would be familiar with.

    i don't think there's any issues with adding more skills to the game. I imagine they can add whatever they want on the fly. They are certainly adept at changing them on the fly.

    i dont like the "tack on effect". i feel the npc guilds are there to be used as are the weapons lines and any skills system should at least be partially integrated into things that exist in the game.

    this is the game of quests but the entire cp system had zero quests associated with it. Makes no sense given that so many enjoy doing those activities.

    Its over. You just don't know it yet.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • GraphicArtistYT
    GraphicArtistYT
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    Rungar wrote: »
    this cp system is designed with performance in mind but also advanced gameplay. Feel free to add your own ideas to this thread.
    Version 2.0

    the new cp system will max out at 1500 and will be unlocked to cp 1000 and then 100 each quarter until 1500 is reached (5 additional quarters).

    Group 1: Cp milestones

    General
    Each cp gives you a flat health/mag/stam bonus according to 5 tiers.
    tier 1 is 1-160cp and gives 3200 ( 20/cp)
    tier 2 is 161-300cp and gives 2100 ( 15/cp)
    tier 3 is 301-600 and gives 1800 (6/cp)
    tier 4 is 601-1000 and gives 1600( 4/cp)
    tier 5 is 1001-1500 and gives 1000 (2 per cp)


    A grand total of 9700 health/mag/stam at cp 1500, but gains suffer diminishing returns so much of it will be collected by cp300.
    The method of using flat base stats is an alternative to cost and damage reductions which will no longer be used , in a general sense, in an effort to reduce and streamline calculations. It works the exactly the same way in the end except the base stats are more flexible and apply to everything. Secondary stats will benefit the most here due to the way primary stats are stacked in this game. Primary stats will also go up but not by nearly as much.

    A side effect of this system is that there will be more to heal but larger health bars to accommodate that.

    Because some cps which greatly increased damage are being removed they have to be replaced to keep players on par with what can be done now. This will be done differently though and more organically within the game. Using the milestone system that systematically unlocks useful things rather than choose percentages.

    Food and drink

    At cp 250 you can now use both food and drink at the same time but can only use a green recipe for the second choice.
    At cp 500 you can use a blue recipe.
    At cp 1000 you can use a purple recipe.
    At cp 1250 you can use a gold recipe.
    In all cases the second choice operates at a 50% penalty. This is to partially compensate for the loss of some of the dmg enhancements available in the cp trees currently.

    Utility barslot

    At cp 400 you can unlock the utility barslot. This slot is common to both bars and you can slot any non ultimate but cannot be activated. Only passive will apply.
    At cp 800 you gain full functionality of the new slot and can now activate it as you would any other slot.

    Major and Minor Mundus

    At cp 100 you gain the double mundus ability (twice born star will be revamped) but similar to the food and drink milestone the second mundus operates at a lower efficiency. At cp 100 it is 30%. I list the percentages but you only get the flat rate. As opposed to improving everything by a set percent you now have to choose again which one you want.
    At cp 500 it is 40%
    At cp 700 it is 45%
    At cp 1100 it is 48%
    At cp 1500 it is 50%

    Armor Cap

    At cp 200 the armor cap is raised to 55%
    At cp 450 the armor cap is raised to 57%
    At cp 900 the armor cap is raised to 59%
    At cp 1300 the armor cap is raised to 60%

    a 60% armor cap is required to balance the dmg reduction cps for tanks. This also makes armor more important again for everyone since it replaces the current dmg reductions ( in addition to the inherent health bonus offered by the new system).

    These five milestones will yield a similar return as players get from the cp system now but still offer choices in how they go about that in ways that already exist within the game with hopefully minimal calculations required.



    Group 2, 3 and 4 have choose-able abilities that you can “purchase” with your cp. Like before the system is round robin so you get a total of 500 points for each group at cp 1500.

    Group 2: Alternate Abilities

    Group 2 has alternate versions of abilities in the weapons skills and guild lines which are generally enhanced. These skills are slottable like any other ability. Each weapon line and guild line will have two new abilities to choose from. You have to have the appropriate standing and cp to unlock the abilities. In addition these abilities may (or may not) have a quest component that is required to be completed before you can unlock the ability. This could be a simple as unlocking the ultimate for a weapon line, maxing out a guild rank or could be more intensive.
    All abilities cost 250 so you can purchase your first one at cp 750 and your second at cp 1500. You can only have two at a time but you can unlock them all by completing the content.

    Additionally you can have only one of these abilities on your skill bar at any time. There would be utility skills for tanks and healers and additionally stam and mag conversion skills for dps.


    Group 3 specialization packages


    Each package is tailored to a specific type of playstyle or role. Each one is unique but usually includes offensive defensive and utility bonuses related to that style. There are three levels to specialization Adept, Expert and Master.

    The points are set up so you can have two choices but only one of those choices can escalate to master and only one of those choices can escalate to expert. These also suffer diminishing returns so the difference between adept and master is not overwhelming combat damage wise. Expert and Master levels will include more utility instead and minimal dmg upgrades.

    At cp 200 you get your first choice
    At cp 450 you get your second choice

    You can use your points to upgrade the skills of your choosing.
    Upgrade to expert 200 cp ( cp 600 min)
    Upgrade from expert to master 100cp

    So at cp 900 you could have a mastery and an adept.
    At cp 1500 you could upgrade the adept to an expert.
    Or you can have two experts at cp 1200.


    Fire Mastery
    Ice Mastery
    Shock Mastery
    Poison Mastery
    Disease Mastery

    Man at arms (physical/generalist)
    Magician (magic/generalist)

    Light Armor Specialist
    Medium Armor Specialist
    Heavy Armor Specialist

    Healing Mastery
    Combat Support ( general)


    Specializations would have a package of skills, some unique skills. i.e you can only get frost/ice dmg bonus for choosing to specialize in frost. The higher the specialization the more perks you get. The lower levels focus on dmg and the higher ones on utility. The lower levels would be missing some of these from below.


    General outline for offensive dmg types

    1) you get an increase modifier of that specific dmg type. General types like physical and magic receive less an increase because of their more varied usefulness.
    2) you get a better chance to apply a condition with a light attack
    3) You get natural resistance to that dmg type
    4) you get an increase in duration of that dmg types dots
    5) your light attacks have a unique behavior
    6) your heavy attacks have a unique behavior
    7) other unique abilities such as a mag regen/ health regen bonus when you are hit by dmg of that type and other special abilities related to that type.

    general outline for defensive armor types

    1) bonus of armor to that type per piece ( remember armor is more important now that hardy etc is gone)
    2) cost reduction suitable to armor type per piece ( block for heavy/dodge for medium/ sprint speed for light)
    3) reduction to snares ( light), stuns (heavy), off balance (medium)
    4) other unique abilities that modify the behavior of your light attacks such as light attacks in 7 heavy now taunt enemies for 5 seconds

    general outline for Healing & support specialties

    1) increased healing
    2) increased duration of buffs
    3) increased time of healing dots
    4) increase in synergy effects
    5) faster resurrections
    6) unique behavior to light attacks
    7) unique behavior to heavy attacks

    Group 4: non combat abilities

    this group has everything non or not directly combat related. Each one costs 100 so you can have any 5 at cp 1500.

    adventuring:
    Mount speed
    lockpicking
    pickpocket
    swimming speed
    fall dmg
    armor repair costs
    vendor prices ( purchasing)
    vendor prices ( selling)
    lucky strike treasure enhancement
    lucky strike gold enhancement

    harvesting enhancements:
    ore & metals
    wood & ingredients
    Cloth & leather

    crafting enhancements:
    blacksmithing improved chance with less tempers
    jewelcraft improved chance with less platings
    woodworking improved chance with less resins
    tailoring improved chance with less tannins
    alchemy chance to make more potions or poisons
    cooking chance to make more food or drink
    enchantment chance to make an additional enchantment


    misc:
    pet replacement skins
    teleportation cost reduction
    wardrobe change cost reduction
    access to npc guild vendor

    Other Changes:

    Animation Cancelling for dps

    Animation cancelling for dps will be removed to improve general performance. This will be accomplished by putting light and heavy attacks on the global timer. Bash will be resolved by increasing its cost significantly and then decreasing that cost in only the one hand and shield weapon skill line with a "shield equipped".
    Improvement to light attacks will come in the form of extra utility through the specialization system where you would be able to select different types of light attacks similar to how you would select a potion. Not sure what to do with barswap. Perhaps barswap should have a small cost associated with it.

    Enchantment changes

    Enchantments/poisons will no longer proc from weapon skills but will now only proc from cooldown on light and heavy attacks to improve performance. Enchantments will now also do more dmg or last longer than before. Poisons will also proc on cooldown and will be updated to reflect that. .

    Changes to procsets

    Many procsets will be now be 100% chance to proc on cooldown and cooldowns will be increased to reflect this. This will help reduce calculations and general server load.


    Minor trading overhaul


    You will now be able to sell your goods through the existing npc guilds( fighters,mages etc) without the requirement for a guild trader. You will not be able to sell as many items and the fees will be greater. The new npc traders will all be within the local guilds they represent, off the beaten path, so to speak. This is to ensure there is an option to sell for those who have guilds with no trader or who don’t have guilds.

    Dungeon Overhaul

    Move away from the failed "boss" mechanics to more "global" mechanics. This strategy will give players more time to strategize the solution to the dungeon and give them less "twitchie" dungeons to play in. This doesnt mean they wont be hard as they will be hard but in a way that can be overcome by average players who work together. Instead of the linear design we have seen forever many dungeons will now have a quasi radial design. Dungeons will also feature advanced gameplay like having to split up your forces, the use of stealth, repairing doors and seigecraft, mechanics that require maintenance, secondary objectives, random elements, optional challenge objectives, and the implementation of global conditions which will vary from dungeon to dungeon.

    there will be no more normal or vet as the new dungeons difficulty will be based on completing the conditions. The rewards for the dungeons will vary based on players overall performance in relation to the conditions.

    this is meant to be a less frustrating and more interesting model for dungeons where you can actually improve over time and be rewarded for it.


    consider the following example of a basic radial dungeon.

    Library of Dusk v 2.0 : Lower Vault (dungeon)


    you all come down a long stairwell that leads to a large room surrounded by a number of smaller catacombs. In the middle of the room is a large caged off area with a sign over saying that only 2 may enter. Two enter here and the timer starts and the other two must search for the proper sequence of books. Opening the wrong book spawns mobs ( aka army of darkness :))and/or bosses in the cage which the other two players must deal with.While the dungeon is in play the boss will taunt you from the other side and some of these taunts will contain hints. Like other dungeons youll also have a helper npc to give clues and explain whats going on during the dungeon. When the proper sequence is completed the other side of the cage opens leading you to the final boss and all players regroup to defeat it. Some books switch players in and out of the cage, teleport you around, spawn chests, weaken the boss, strengthen the boss, activate traps, deactivate traps etc.

    The catacombs are also infested and have roamer mini bosses for added chaos. One of the catacombs has an optional challenge boss players can engage if they wish to. In addition to this there is an optional book collection quest that can be completed while the dungeon is running. Finally there is the "visitor" which is a character youve seen elsewhere in the game who may or may not show up anywhere at any time even while your fighting the boss. You do not have to fight everything.

    Random component: the sequence books are shuffled each time the dungeon is run so you cannot just remember where they are.

    Fail condition: over the top of the cage is a chain that lowers a spike as soon as you start the timer. You have 60 minutes to complete the dungeon before the spike hits causing the dungeon to be "over" , meaning you all get booted with no reward. You cannot enter the catacombs until the timer starts. You can interact with the chain crank outside the cage to buy a little more time. This is done by bashing the crank and can get you an extra 10 minutes. the chain spike is the visual timer. you wont get a sign that says 52 minutes remaining.

    Win Conditions

    Completing the dungeon within the 60 minutes will yield a basic chest. The minimal reward
    completing the dungeon within 60 minutes and defeating the optional boss or the "book collection" yields the advanced chest.
    completing the dungeon within 60 minutes, defeating the optional boss ( who also drops the monster helm) and completing the "book collection" yields the expert chest.
    completing the dungeon within 40 minutes and defeating the optional boss and completing the "book collection" yields the Master chest.

    as you can see these dungeons might take multiple runs to achieve the top rewards and you cant just "reset the fight" your way through it until you " learn" to beat it. Also the hardest parts are optional parts so if the party isnt up to it it can be avoided. The focus is taken off dps, and put on survival, teamwork and problem solving where it should be. Typical player setups might be closer to pvp setups than traditional pve as you might have to be self reliant for parts of the dungeon so this offers players more interesting options in terms of setup. Youll still have an advantage with high dps but it wont be the only factor.


    These changes are designed to improve the eso experience for the average player both from a performance and gameplay perspective while giving some longer term reasonable incentives to continue to progress. All of these things i've mentioned can easily be done in eso should they be up for the challenge.


    TLDR
  • Delparis
    Delparis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DD stamina, DD magicka, tank and heal trees.
    You can invest a given number of point in all those trees.
    The most you invest in a specific tree, the better the gain
  • Deathlord92
    Deathlord92
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I love the idea of max health stamina magic being in cp as I love playing a Breton stamblade
  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting points in the thread but I like Tommy the gun idea's more.
  • Rungar
    Rungar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    CompM4s wrote: »
    Cant agree with removal of animation canceling. Would make combat stale.

    thats why I included the dungeon redesign to not strictly focus on dps/trial mechanics. I understand why you would want to keep it, it gives a massive advantage if you can do it, but i dont think its healthy for the game overall, from either a performance or gameplay perspective.

    Its over. You just don't know it yet.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rungar wrote: »
    CompM4s wrote: »
    Cant agree with removal of animation canceling. Would make combat stale.

    thats why I included the dungeon redesign to not strictly focus on dps/trial mechanics. I understand why you would want to keep it, it gives a massive advantage if you can do it, but i dont think its healthy for the game overall, from either a performance or gameplay perspective.

    It's not only about dps, without animation cancelling we will simply fall asleep while those animations are performed..

    About idea... some nice points, but overall that wouldn't work. People are race changing because of 1 set bonus differences. What you propose will create difference of abnormal magnitude between CP500 and CP1500. There are simply not so many active CP1000+ players....

    Best thing ZOS can do is to remove combat stats from CP entirely.. maybe keep some advanced mechanics locked behind CP (like off-balance on roll-dodge), but flat/% bonuses to health/magicka/stamina/damage/mitigation/healing - all they should be gone or provided to each player by default when they reach level 50.
  • Rungar
    Rungar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rungar wrote: »
    CompM4s wrote: »
    Cant agree with removal of animation canceling. Would make combat stale.

    thats why I included the dungeon redesign to not strictly focus on dps/trial mechanics. I understand why you would want to keep it, it gives a massive advantage if you can do it, but i dont think its healthy for the game overall, from either a performance or gameplay perspective.

    It's not only about dps, without animation cancelling we will simply fall asleep while those animations are performed..

    About idea... some nice points, but overall that wouldn't work. People are race changing because of 1 set bonus differences. What you propose will create difference of abnormal magnitude between CP500 and CP1500. There are simply not so many active CP1000+ players....

    Best thing ZOS can do is to remove combat stats from CP entirely.. maybe keep some advanced mechanics locked behind CP (like off-balance on roll-dodge), but flat/% bonuses to health/magicka/stamina/damage/mitigation/healing - all they should be gone or provided to each player by default when they reach level 50.

    The system has built in diminishing returns in all combat related areas. Once you hit 600 cp or so your basically splitting hairs at that point. If this was purely a pvp game i would agree with you but it isnt and has a no cp campaign to compensate. Many players require constant improvement even if that improvement is minimal to maintain their enjoyment of the game.
    Its over. You just don't know it yet.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rungar wrote: »
    Rungar wrote: »
    CompM4s wrote: »
    Cant agree with removal of animation canceling. Would make combat stale.

    thats why I included the dungeon redesign to not strictly focus on dps/trial mechanics. I understand why you would want to keep it, it gives a massive advantage if you can do it, but i dont think its healthy for the game overall, from either a performance or gameplay perspective.

    It's not only about dps, without animation cancelling we will simply fall asleep while those animations are performed..

    About idea... some nice points, but overall that wouldn't work. People are race changing because of 1 set bonus differences. What you propose will create difference of abnormal magnitude between CP500 and CP1500. There are simply not so many active CP1000+ players....

    Best thing ZOS can do is to remove combat stats from CP entirely.. maybe keep some advanced mechanics locked behind CP (like off-balance on roll-dodge), but flat/% bonuses to health/magicka/stamina/damage/mitigation/healing - all they should be gone or provided to each player by default when they reach level 50.

    The system has built in diminishing returns in all combat related areas. Once you hit 600 cp or so your basically splitting hairs at that point. If this was purely a pvp game i would agree with you but it isnt and has a no cp campaign to compensate. Many players require constant improvement even if that improvement is minimal to maintain their enjoyment of the game.

    I understand. XP is completely useless right now for CP810 if you are not leveling some new ability. And if you want to level it, it's simpler to just take XP scroll from those daily rewards and level everything in Spellscar or whatever other place in one hour or less.. but this may be improvement to quality of life instead of combat bonuses. For example longer food timers, cheaper repair, higher resource yields... so the more player have XP, then less time is required to grind.
  • Rungar
    Rungar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    updated to include some new stuff to ponder or reject. Whatever your fancy.
    Its over. You just don't know it yet.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • BNOC
    BNOC
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I didn't read the whole thing and I'm sure there's some great ideas in there but right from the get go it's unbalanced as I, with 1500CP get more handed to me than a 600CP - I know it's only a small amount, but take into account multipliers or whatever and the fact I'm probably more skilled with more knowledge and it just creates balance issues..

    Actually I read a bit on and seen food and mundus changes, they are both skewed in favour of long term players as well?

    Ok, so I read the whole thing and it seems unbalanced in favour of LONG term veterans, unlocking bonus passives and utility slots and pretty much everything else you suggested - maybe I'm reading it the wrong way and it's the opposite.

    More unbalanced than it currently is.

    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
    578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)

    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
    569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)
  • ScruffyWhiskers
    ScruffyWhiskers
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    How about CP just unlocks cosmetics?
  • Rungar
    Rungar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    BNOC wrote: »
    I didn't read the whole thing and I'm sure there's some great ideas in there but right from the get go it's unbalanced as I, with 1500CP get more handed to me than a 600CP - I know it's only a small amount, but take into account multipliers or whatever and the fact I'm probably more skilled with more knowledge and it just creates balance issues..

    Actually I read a bit on and seen food and mundus changes, they are both skewed in favour of long term players as well?

    Ok, so I read the whole thing and it seems unbalanced in favour of LONG term veterans, unlocking bonus passives and utility slots and pretty much everything else you suggested - maybe I'm reading it the wrong way and it's the opposite.

    More unbalanced than it currently is.

    if you look carefully youll see that both 30-40% you get from cp now in terms of dmg and mitigation have been handled differently where you wont be getting that 40% anymore but there are ways to make up for some of it i.e more base stats that suffer heavy diminishing returns and the same for the other items with a general increase in versatility. You get most of it very early and the later stuff is splitting whiskers.

    However it is meant to be balanced for cp 800 and youll note that there is still a 1000 cap so it will take a year or two to unlock to 1500. if you can get to 800 theres really not many differences and there is one additional improvement.

    animation cancelling for dps is dis empowered which in reality is the greatest source of disparity in the game.

    i feel with this system you will be competitive by cp 400 which i dont feel is unreasonable at all considering theres a no cp campaign.
    Its over. You just don't know it yet.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • Kurat
    Kurat
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    Let me guess, OP is cp1500

  • BrightOblivion
    BrightOblivion
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    While you may theorize that players might be competitive around CP400 (I'd point out that's 100 CP later than now), you're talking about nearly doubling the mountain of CP necessary to achieve and, in tying so much to higher and higher CP thresholds, are obliterating the current system of diminishing returns with what seems to me to be an overcomplicated and extremely fiddly overhaul. This is going to turn off a large number of people

    Additionally, you're talking about not only fundamentally changing combat (through eliminating animation cancelling) but also combat instances. While it seems to me that you may not like the combat system, given your reference to it as "twitchy" among other things, the fact of the matter is that the pace and relative fluidity of ESO combat is a major draw to a considerable percentage of the player base.

    Were all your proposed changes implemented, we might as well be playing a completely different game than the one we're playing now- one which, in many ways appears worse to me than it currently is. Ultimately, that sort of dramatic change across so many facets of the game, particularly changes which run so counter to this game's stated aims by tying so much to CP (ranging from food to more powerful weapon skills to gathering perks), should not be made in a game this established. Ultimately, I don't see the appeal in your suggestions and strongly disagree that it's an appropriate direction for this game to head in, or for that matter one that's in line with what vision ZOS has shown us.
    Edited by BrightOblivion on October 6, 2019 3:32AM
  • Rungar
    Rungar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    every part of the system has massive diminishing returns just like the current system except the non combat stuff. Past cp 800 it really is splitting hairs. You gotta have something. Its not a fps shooter its a mmo. Theres a no cp campaign if its a pvp issue.

    nothing i mentioned isnt already in the game in some form.

    examples:

    scaling from highest stat: in the game dk inferno, soultrap
    food and drink, both in the game
    mundus stones are in the game
    a larger stat pool is the exact same thing as reducing the cost of x number of abilities just a different format with less calculations
    alternate abilities are already in the game "morphs"
    different behaviors for light attacks is in the game. The psigic mending skill, overload
    the "potion" slot is a non combat utility slot. I dont play sorcerers but i am sure they would appreciate a combat slot that doesnt require a double bar.


    everything's in the game already. just a different configuration. Even the dungeon and trial suggestions is just an alternate use of existing systems. Eso is an awesome platform. No revolution required. Just a little evolution.

    You dont need light weaving to play this game and after pug tanking many hundreds of vet dungeons im convinced the average player doesnt use it at all or even know about it. All it accomplishes is put new dungeons out of their reach and surprise surprise look how popular base game dungeons are vs dlc.
    Edited by Rungar on October 6, 2019 10:28AM
    Its over. You just don't know it yet.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • Hotdog_23
    Hotdog_23
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow you have put a lot and thought and effort into your idea. I wonder if maybe it is to complex as a whole for the average player.
  • Rungar
    Rungar
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    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    Wow you have put a lot and thought and effort into your idea. I wonder if maybe it is to complex as a whole for the average player.

    well the average player is a 30+ year old man with a wealth of either elder scrolls knowledge or mmo knowledge or both so i would say no.

    there are two kinds of complexity. The kind that eso has now is instant complexity where you require muscle memory and repetition to succeed. This is a fps style of complexity or dragonslair( if you remember that arcade game) complexity: do this now or die.

    The second kind is a gameplay complexity where there is time to do this stuff and figure it out. This is a rpg style of complexity. Otherwise known as depth.

    so given eso's assumed playerbase which consists mostly of mmo fans and elder scrolls fans, which style of complexity is a better fit?

    Edited by Rungar on October 13, 2019 10:51AM
    Its over. You just don't know it yet.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • lucky_Sage
    lucky_Sage
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the each tree should be for a specific play style. And you can only master one tree and minor in another. Each tree will allow you to specialize in a certain style like one for high burst assassin, one for healing one for the brawler etc.
    DC PC NA
    Magdk - main
    Stamcro - alt

    AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
    magdk
    magblade
    stamplar
    magden
    magsorc

  • Grianasteri
    Grianasteri
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rungar wrote: »
    this cp system is designed with performance in mind but also advanced gameplay. Feel free to add your own ideas to this thread.
    Version 2.2.1

    the new cp system for combat will max out at 1500 and will be unlocked to cp 900 and then 50 each quarter until 1500 is reached (12 additional quarters or 3 years). Group 4 abilities ( non combat) will continue to grow past cp 1500 and are not locked out which means that you can take advantage of group 4 abilities all the way to 3600

    Group 1: Cp milestones

    General
    Each cp gives you a flat health/mag/stam bonus according to 5 tiers.
    tier 1 is 1-160cp and gives 3200 ( 20/cp)
    tier 2 is 161-300cp and gives 2100 ( 15/cp)
    tier 3 is 301-600 and gives 1800 (6/cp)
    tier 4 is 601-1000 and gives 1600( 4/cp)
    tier 5 is 1001-1500 and gives 1000 (2 per cp)


    A grand total of 9700 health/mag/stam at cp 1500, but gains suffer diminishing returns so much of it will be collected by cp300.
    The method of using flat base stats is an alternative to cost and damage reductions which will no longer be used , in a general sense, in an effort to reduce and streamline calculations. It works the exactly the same way in the end except the base stats are more flexible and apply to everything. Secondary stats will benefit the most here due to the way primary stats are stacked in this game. Primary stats will also go up but not by nearly as much.

    A side effect of this system is that there will be more to heal but larger health bars to accommodate that.

    Because some cps which greatly increased damage are being removed they have to be replaced to keep players on par with what can be done now. This will be done differently though and more organically within the game. Using the milestone system that systematically unlocks useful things rather than choose percentages.

    Food and drink

    At cp 250 you can now use both food and drink at the same time but can only use a green recipe for the second choice.
    At cp 500 you can use a blue recipe.
    At cp 1000 you can use a purple recipe.
    At cp 1250 you can use a gold recipe.
    In all cases the second choice operates at a 50% penalty. This is to partially compensate for the loss of some of the dmg enhancements available in the cp trees currently.

    Utility barslot

    At cp 325 you can unlock the utility barslot. This slot is common to both bars and you can slot any non ultimate but cannot be activated. Only passive will apply.
    At cp 625 you gain full functionality of the new slot and can now activate it as you would any other slot.

    Major and Minor Mundus

    At cp 100 you gain the double mundus ability (twice born star will be revamped) but similar to the food and drink milestone the second mundus operates at a lower efficiency. At cp 100 it is 30%. I list the percentages but you only get the flat rate. As opposed to improving everything by a set percent you now have to choose again which one you want.
    At cp 280 it is 37%
    At cp 375 it is 42%
    At cp 650 it is 46%
    At cp 1075 it is 49%
    At cp 1425 it is 50%

    Armor Cap

    At cp 200 the armor cap is raised to 55%
    At cp 475 the armor cap is raised to 57%
    At cp 900 the armor cap is raised to 59%
    At cp 1300 the armor cap is raised to 60%

    a 60% armor cap is required to balance the dmg reduction cps for tanks. This also makes armor more important again for everyone since it replaces the current dmg reductions ( in addition to the inherent health bonus offered by the new system).

    Class identity

    at cp 215 all your class abilities in your dmg line will scale from the highest offensive stats ( mag or stam) ( just like the dk's inferno)
    at cp 465 all your class abilities from your healing line will scale from your highest stats
    at cp 730 all your class abilities from your tank line will scale from your highest stats

    the exception to this system is abilities that scale off health which will remain the same. Additionally the resource cost does not change so if it costed magic before it still does. The idea is to give class abilities a little more flexibility than non class skills so players will still feel like the class they play regardless of whether they choose mag or stam. It should also be remembered that this cp system will augment your offstats significantly making this even more useful.



    These six milestones will yield a similar return as players get from the cp system now but still offer choices in how they go about that in ways that already exist within the game with hopefully minimal calculations required.



    Group 2, 3 and 4 have choose-able abilities that you can “purchase” with your cp. Like before the system is round robin so you get a total of 500 points for each group at cp 1500.

    Group 2: Alternate Abilities

    Group 2 has alternate versions of abilities in the weapons skills and guild lines which are generally enhanced. These skills are slottable like any other ability. Each weapon line and guild line will have two new abilities to choose from. You have to have the appropriate standing and cp to unlock the abilities. In addition these abilities may (or may not) have a quest component that is required to be completed before you can unlock the ability. This could be a simple as unlocking the ultimate for a weapon line, maxing out a guild rank or could be more intensive.
    You get your first ability at cp 300 and your second one at cp 600 your third one at cp 1100 and the fourth one at 1500 . Additionally you can have only one of these abilities on your weapon skill bar at any time (one per bar) regardless of how many youve unlocked so the upper cp's offer more versatility in changing your skills but no additional raw power past cp 600. There would be utility skills for tanks and healers and additionally stam and mag conversion skills for dps.


    Group 3 specialization packages


    Each package is tailored to a specific type of playstyle or role. Each one is unique but usually includes offensive defensive and utility bonuses related to that style. There are three levels to specialization Adept, Expert and Master.

    The points are set up so you can have two choices but only one of those choices can escalate to master and only one of those choices can escalate to expert. These also suffer diminishing returns so the difference between adept and master is not overwhelming combat damage wise. Expert and Master levels will include more utility instead and minimal dmg upgrades.

    At cp 200 you get your first choice
    At cp 450 you get your second choice

    You can use your points to upgrade the skills of your choosing.
    Upgrade to expert 200 cp ( cp 600 min)
    Upgrade from expert to master 100cp

    So at cp 900 you could have a mastery and an adept.
    At cp 1500 you could upgrade the adept to an expert.
    Or you can have two experts at cp 1200.


    Wizard ( fire)
    Thaumaturge ( frost)
    Magus ( lightning)

    Snake master (Poisoner)
    Rat Master (Disease)

    Man at arms (physical/generalist)
    Magician (magic/generalist)

    Light Armor Specialist
    Medium Armor Specialist
    Heavy Armor Specialist

    Diviner ( healing)
    Sidekick (Combat Support, general)

    Class thematic/specific specializations

    Active ability classes: These classes get a similar themed active ability to control creatures. This is a charm type ability that lets players control mobs and use them as pets. You have to go get the pet and if it dies you have to go get another one. Each theme is determined by the class. ( its sort of in the game now, baby wasps)

    Sorcerer: Summoner: active ability to control daedra and elementals
    Necromancer: Dominator: active ability to control undead
    Warden: Tamer: active ability to tame animals

    in all cases the adept line gives the basic ability and the expert and master gives more types of creatures in that theme to control.

    Passive class abilities: These classes get passive abilities which are activated when certain creatures are slain in battle. This is a passive style buff system. Each class has their own Specific theme and available buffs.

    Dragon's Fury: Gives Dragonknights unique offensive and defensive buffs when killing daedra and elementals
    Priest of Arkay: Gives Templars unique defensive buffs when killing undead
    Hircines Huntsmen: Gives Nightblades unique offensive buffs when killing animals

    Each of the three levels determines both what creatures can confer buffs and what buffs they confer as well as the length of the abilities.


    General outline (example)Specializations would have a package of skills, some unique skills. i.e you can only get frost/ice dmg bonus for choosing to specialize in frost. The higher the specialization the more perks you get. The lower levels focus on dmg and the higher ones on utility. The lower levels would be missing some of these from below.


    General outline for offensive dmg types

    1) you get an increase modifier of that specific dmg type. General types like physical and magic receive less an increase because of their more varied usefulness.
    2) you get a better chance to apply a condition with a light attack
    3) You get natural resistance to that dmg type
    4) you get an increase in duration of that dmg types dots
    5) your light attacks have a unique behavior
    6) your heavy attacks have a unique behavior
    7) other unique abilities such as a mag regen/ health regen bonus when you are hit by dmg of that type and other special abilities related to that type.

    general outline for defensive armor types

    1) bonus of armor to that type per piece ( remember armor is more important now that hardy etc is gone)
    2) cost reduction suitable to armor type per piece ( block for heavy/dodge for medium/ sprint speed for light)
    3) reduction to snares ( light), stuns (heavy), off balance (medium)
    4) other unique abilities that modify the behavior of your light attacks such as light attacks in 7 heavy now taunt enemies for 5 seconds
    5) other unique abilities like the magic shoes passive that allows your sprint to cost magicka if your wearing all light armor.

    general outline for Healing & support specialties

    1) increased healing
    2) increased duration of buffs
    3) increased time of healing dots
    4) increase in synergy effects
    5) faster resurrections
    6) unique behavior to light attacks
    7) unique behavior to heavy attacks


    collecting specializations. You will be able to unlock all the specializations through through the npc guild ( i.e fighters guild etc) questing. This requires a certain level within the specific npc guild to start a specialization and advancement as well as the required cp. Each specialization will have its own questline to complete. The questline has three components for the three levels of the specialization. The higher they go the more challenging/involved they get.


    Changing specializations. Other parts of the cp system like mundus and food and drink are pretty straight forward in changing and is meant to be done on the fly but the specialization system will be slightly more involved. Each specialization will be assigned to one of the npc guilds the specialization is attuned to. you just have to go to the appropriate guild and make the change for each one, though that might require visiting multiple npc guilds depending on what you want to change to. Soulgems will be the currency of change and a number of them will be required every time you make a change as they "power" the specialization change system". It will be done in a gameplay mode where you have to set the soulgems and stand in the center


    Group 4: non combat abilities

    this group has everything non or not directly combat related. Each one costs 50 and you get one point for every three cp up to 3600 so at cp 3600 you can have 24 choices. i.e you can pretty much get them all


    adventuring:
    Mount speed
    lockpicking
    pickpocket
    swimming speed
    fall dmg
    armor repair costs
    vendor prices ( purchasing)
    vendor prices ( selling)
    lucky strike treasure enhancement
    lucky strike gold enhancement

    harvesting enhancements:
    ore & metals
    wood & ingredients
    Cloth & leather

    crafting enhancements:
    blacksmithing improved chance with less tempers
    jewelcraft improved chance with less platings
    woodworking improved chance with less resins
    tailoring improved chance with less tannins
    alchemy chance to make more potions or poisons
    cooking chance to make more food or drink
    enchantment chance to make an additional enchantment

    lower amount of base materials for blacksmithing
    lower amount of base materials for Clothing
    lower amount of base materials for woodworking
    lower amount of base materials for jewelcraft

    misc:
    pet replacement skins
    teleportation cost reduction
    wardrobe change cost reduction
    rider training cooldown reduction
    transmutation cost reduction

    Other Changes:

    Animation Cancelling for dps

    Animation cancelling for dps will be removed to improve general performance. This will be accomplished by putting light, heavy attacks and barswap on the global timer. Bash will be resolved by increasing its cost significantly and then decreasing that cost in only the one hand and shield weapon skill line with a "shield equipped". Blocking with staves will now stop your magic regen for 2 seconds and blocking with staves will always cost magicka if you have a staff equipped. Roll dodge will remain as is.

    Improvement to light attacks will come in the form of extra utility through the specialization system where you would be able to select different types of light attacks similar to how you would select a potion. You will be able to pick what form of basic attack suits you best. Additionally all skills will do an additional 10% across the board dmg to compensate for the loss of light attack spam. Light attacks will now be within the confines of "resources determine everything" and thus have a secondary use for applying enchants, conditions, generating ultimate and becoming functional utility themed skills and will not be primary dmg abilities.

    Enchantment changes

    Enchantments/poisons will no longer proc from weapon skills but will now only proc from cooldown on light and heavy attacks to improve performance. Enchantments will now also do more dmg or last longer than before. Poisons will also proc on cooldown and will be updated to reflect that. .

    Changes to procsets

    Procs from proc sets will now cost some of your ultimate pool. It will have its own little meter where some percentage of ultimate gained is shunted to power up the sets and will max out at 100 ultimate with a basic 10-20 cost depending on the set. This is to add a gameplay element to the proc sets and some conditions on use. With the new rules "most" proc sets will have a 100% chance if you have the ultimate saved up.



    Minor trading overhaul


    You will now be able to sell your goods through the existing npc guilds( fighters,mages etc) without the requirement for a guild trader. You will not be able to sell as many items and the fees will be greater. The new npc traders will all be within the local guilds they represent, off the beaten path, so to speak. This is to ensure there is an option to sell for those who have guilds with no trader or who don’t have guilds.

    Dungeon Overhaul

    Move away from the failed "boss" mechanics to more "global" mechanics. This strategy will give players more time to strategize the solution to the dungeon and give them less "twitchie" dungeons to play in. This doesnt mean they wont be hard as they will be hard but in a way that can be overcome by average players who work together. Instead of the linear design we have seen forever many dungeons will now have a quasi radial design. Dungeons will also feature advanced gameplay like having to split up your forces, the use of stealth, repairing doors and seigecraft, mechanics that require maintenance, secondary objectives, random elements, optional challenge objectives, and the implementation of global conditions which will vary from dungeon to dungeon.

    These dungeons will require less overall twitchie combat, but that component will still be there for the higher difficulty ( usually the optional bosses) but that aspect will be changed somewhat where you will be able to better lean on the stronger players in the group who are better equipped and have the right skill to get the job done. Gone will be the kick weak players routine. We will rather reallocate them to easier tasks in the dungeon. This lets them participate and learn. This gives the stronger players a leadership role in the dungeon where they can succeed and be the hero at the same time. Its pretty simple but requires a different way of thinking than what your used to. Most importantly this gives time to players. You will be able to talk to players again as rushing forward wont finish the dungeon any faster.

    there will be no more normal or vet as the new dungeons difficulty will be based on completing the conditions. The rewards for the dungeons will vary based on players overall performance in relation to the conditions.

    this is meant to be a less frustrating and more interesting model for dungeons where you can actually improve over time and be rewarded for it and to provide better support to pug play and premades with variable in dungeon challenge.


    consider the following example of a basic radial dungeon.

    Library of Dusk v 2.0 : Lower Vault (dungeon)


    you all come down a long stairwell that leads to a large room surrounded by a number of smaller catacombs. In the middle of the room is a large caged off area with a sign over saying that only 2 may enter. Two enter here and the timer starts and the other two must search for the proper sequence of books. Opening the wrong book spawns mobs ( aka army of darkness :))and/or bosses in the cage which the other two players must deal with.While the dungeon is in play the boss will taunt you from the other side and some of these taunts will contain hints. Like other dungeons youll also have a helper npc to give clues and explain whats going on during the dungeon. When the proper sequence is completed the other side of the cage opens leading you to the final boss and all players regroup to defeat it. Some books switch players in and out of the cage, teleport you around, spawn chests, weaken the boss, strengthen the boss, activate traps, deactivate traps etc.

    The catacombs are also infested and have roamer mini bosses for added chaos. One of the catacombs has an optional challenge boss players can engage if they wish to. In addition to this there is an optional book collection quest that can be completed while the dungeon is running. Finally there is the "visitor" which is a character youve seen elsewhere in the game who may or may not show up anywhere at any time even while your fighting the boss. You do not have to fight everything.

    Random component: the sequence books are shuffled each time the dungeon is run so you cannot just remember where they are.

    Fail condition: over the top of the cage is a chain that lowers a spike as soon as you start the timer. You have 60 minutes to complete the dungeon before the spike hits causing the dungeon to be "over" , meaning you all get booted with no reward. You cannot enter the catacombs until the timer starts. You can interact with the chain crank outside the cage to buy a little more time. This is done by bashing the crank and can get you an extra 10 minutes. the chain spike is the visual timer. you wont get a sign that says 52 minutes remaining.

    Win Conditions

    Completing the dungeon within the 60 minutes will yield a basic chest. The minimal reward
    completing the dungeon within 60 minutes and defeating the optional boss or the "book collection" yields the advanced chest.
    completing the dungeon within 60 minutes, defeating the optional boss ( who also drops the monster helm) and completing the "book collection" yields the expert chest.
    completing the dungeon within 40 minutes and defeating the optional boss and completing the "book collection" yields the Master chest.

    as you can see these dungeons might take multiple runs to achieve the top rewards and you cant just "reset the fight" your way through it until you " learn" to beat it. Also the hardest parts are optional parts so if the party isnt up to it it can be avoided. The focus is taken off dps, and put on survival, teamwork and problem solving where it should be. Typical player setups might be closer to pvp setups than traditional pve as you might have to be self reliant for parts of the dungeon so this offers players more interesting options in terms of setup. Youll still have an advantage with high dps but it wont be the only factor. This is by design to address a few of the varying metas like making extreme dps builds not quite as advantageous as currently opening up more ways to build a character and also being a little more familiar gear wise to the pvp crowd.

    Example#2

    Nightmare Mansion in Rivenspire

    You are tasked with fighting your way into the mansion and then holding it until dawn keeping as many people in the mansion alive as possible. This dungeon is also a radially design but also has vertical levels to it. Your team fights your way into the courtyard and makes its way to the mansion's broken front door. Once your inside the door must be repaired with wood available in the mansion ( upstairs). zombies will attack the door for the entire duration of the dungeon so the door must be repaired periodically or youll have to fight the zombies.

    once inside you have to rescue all the people in the mansion who are in different rooms upstairs and bring them back to the main chamber. Vampires and zombies and mini-bosses spawn from the basement and come upstairs so you will have to hold off these enemies while someone goes to collect the survivors. Down in the basement is the optional vampire lord boss and an optional quest to find the silver totem.

    Random component: find the silver totem in the basement which is in a different location each time you play the dungeon.

    fail conditions:
    all players die ( simultaneously)
    all npc survivors die

    win conditions:

    basic chest: At least one party member and at least one npc survivor, make it until dawn ( 60 minutes). There is no "timer" except the light that comes through a window. It is another visual cue.
    advanced chest: at least one party member survives until dawn and at least 4 npcs survivors make until dawn.
    expert chest: at least one party member survives until dawn and at least 6 npc survivors make it until dawn and either the optional boss defeated or silver totem found.
    master chest: at least two party members survive until dawn, at least 10 survivors make it until dawn the optional boss is defeated, and the silver totem found.


    This type of dungeon reduces the need to specialized roles. Instead of tank you might just need "tanky" which will give the groupfinder some more flexibility in assigning groups. pvp style builds would be more effective here than traditional extreme pve builds which are not well rounded.

    Trial overhaul: the warfront


    The warfront is a new idea that is kinda like a trial but is more open to players who can come and go as they please and contribute according to their skills. It kinda plays like a pvp campaign does but with a primarily pve setting and some indirect realm vs realm activities to spead players out so more can be in the same campaign.

    Its understandable that a number of people like raiding as raiding has been commonplace since everquest. Im not trying to remove the idea of that but rather modify it so it serves a better function. In eso the trial system drives a lazer focus on the game where even one minor change can upset the whole game. Players are forced into gear they dont really want to use and playstyles they dont find fun. The gameplay itself devolves into a system of one shot mechanics and thus the focus on maximum dps to minimize the chance of failure is prized above all. I find it has unhealthy effects on the rest of the game and really puts the screws to the massive and awesome versatility the game has built into it. imo the classes and sets are fine , the trials are the real problem when it comes to balance.

    the idea is to set up a zone that has objectives that alot of players need to work. Like a gate system . You clear your way and then hold territory until ultimately the last boss is brought down and the zone is liberated. Thus it will have a start and a conclusion similar to any pvp campaign but will have pve mobs and bosses more similar to a trial. Everyone who participates gets rewarded for their participation same as any pvp campaign. A key feature is something i call enemy forge. After the last boss is completed the zone becomes a great crafting area ( or the winners) in terms of both resources and stations but this will only last a short random while and the enemy will retake the zone in force at some point and the battle will be on again.

    My initial example is imperial city because it was designed wonderfully for this type of activity.

    my example uses a basic pve /non contact rvr variant of the existing imperial city which creates a three prong attack on molag bal's forces. Whichever faction gets to molag bal first locks the others out and gets the rewards for winning the campaign.

    These campaigns are designed for 100 players per side or 300 players per instance ( more if its possible). Like the cyrodiil campaigns they have a start and a conclusion with rewards going to the victorious side and second and third place for the effort.

    the map will be modified to include a number of siege-able gates, monster generators and bosses. Monster generators are not new to eso but are used sparsely like wasps or that fire thing in vvardenfell, portals in some dungeons. We will make extensive use of them from now on out.

    so the three areas of imperial city will be cut off for each other in this example as its a pve warfront with rvr competition element. Each of the three areas will have a number of new gates added and monster generators set up which players will have to work through. As they defeat the gates and monster generators they can advance through each of the areas toward the center of the city both on top and underground simultaneously ( to split up/allow more players per instance).

    The gate system will work on a system of up/down. That is teams underground have to do something for the teams above to advance and vice versa. The monkey wrench is that the other factions teams can also complete tasks that will hamper your efforts but not directly ( its a pve scenario with rvr elements). Whichever faction unlocks the last gate to molag bal the other teams get locked out and that team has a a chance to defeat defeat molag ball and end the campaign. There could be some kind of leaderboard system like in pvp where the top 8 players online plus 4 random pics get to do the final battle and if they fail they go back 2 gates.

    the monster generators in this warfront will be daedric portals which will be heavily defended BUT generators have to be attacked both topside and underground at the same time else they cannot be permanently closed as each generator is linked to another generator. Additionally new mobs which repair and spawn new portal sets will keep pressure on the players to keep spread out a little. Failure to address and maintain the monster generators will result in a gate being relocked preventing reinforcements/ slowing down advancement to molag bal.

    the idea is to provide an endgame scenario that is fun and inclusive where everyone can contribute according to their skills. This is just one simple example but you can apply the principle to any new content with this pve/rvr type hybrid gameplay that i think eso can easily handle with its current technology and a little spreading out of players so more can be packed in. This also opens the door for dedicated but randomized guild vs guild vs guild instances since they would be able to run multiple instances of the same campaign. So instead of a player a guild signs up to the instance which locks players into that guild's chosen faction for that campaign (so they cant play multiple sides, even by chance). This allows guilds to bring in many of their players who arent in the "clique" for trials and contribute and have fun.



    These changes are designed to improve the eso experience for the average player both from a performance and gameplay perspective while giving some longer term reasonable incentives to continue to progress. All of these things i've mentioned can easily be done in eso should they be up for the challenge. For the dungeon changes this all available in eso right now through the quest/pledge engine so nothing new is required here. Eso has become a game of exclusion through its combat, dungeon and trial systems. Maybe these systems could use some improvement.


    Gotta give props for the time and effort put into all of this, well done. There are some really good ideas in here... and some not so good.
  • Rungar
    Rungar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    which ones were no good? im flexible.. sort of..lol
    Its over. You just don't know it yet.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • Sahidom
    Sahidom
    ✭✭✭
    Very nice post but unrealistic and too many niche nodes that won't actually be used or considered.

    Here's my feedback:
    1. Remove ALL +% nodes and the +20% increase on resource pools.
    2. Create character attribute nodes.
      • +Magicka
      • +Magicka Recovery
      • +Spell Damage
      • +Spell Critical Chance
      • +Stamina
      • +Stamina Recovery
      • +Weapon Damage
      • +Weapon Critical Chance
      • +Health
      • +Health Recovery
      • +Healing Received
      • Cost Reduction: Sprint
      • Cost Reduction: Block
      • Cost Reduction: Break-Free
      • Cost Reduction: Tumbling
      • Cost Reduction: Stealth
      • Treasure Finding (+% chance to find zone/delve/dungeon item loot)
      • Node Resources (+% chance to increase node resources)
      • +Physical Resistance
      • +Spell Resistance
      • +Critical Damage Resistance
      • +Damage Shield (+Absorb added to the Skill's tool-tip scaled similarly to +Physical/Spell Resistance)
    3. No more passives for spending so many points on one or more tree groups.

    It's simple. It's straight forward and precise on what you're gaining by each point spent. These are the main attributes that matter in the game. The loss of the -% modifiers would definitely cause an uproar and forced updates on many builds.

    NOW, all said and done. You could easily create veteran skill trees that get unlocked when a player spends the tree's prerequisites. This would send ESO down a completely different rabbit hole than it's current direction.
    Edited by Sahidom on October 18, 2019 7:04AM
  • Rungar
    Rungar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    i tend to prefer the rpg route than the stripped down spreadsheet method. It lets you mesh systems with other systems, link things to quests basically making any system content rich as opposed to tacked on.

    i understand why you might want a simplified system ( that was my first inclination, just to remove the percentages) but what value does it have? no new functionality, no new gameplay systems, no expansion of existing themes, nothing to collect and try out. No content at all.

    seems like a wasted opportunity.




    Its over. You just don't know it yet.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • Nordic__Knights
    Nordic__Knights
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    You know I skim through this earlier tonight and I had thought that it might be something that was good and now I've actually read it and this is actually a very bad idea for the game, Iam at 1345 CP and think by adding this type of a system in would really unbalance me to the newer players more than the system that we have now so I would definitely have to go against this due to the balance reasons the system just does not seem like it would balance well for lower CP players just coming into the game compared to the veteran players that are here I understand that it may never be able to become completely balanced for newer players mid-level players but this one just doesn't cut the bill for me at all but I do say you done a lot of thought processing here and that's appreciated just I think it's the wrong approach
    PS4 NA (mixed) = Mr-_-Crowley666/ cp 1410+/ release day player 18 MAX CP CLASSES/ 16x PVP EMP/ VMA / VDSA/ ECT ECT 89%= OF FULLGAME DLC/CHAPTERS V TRIALS
    PC NA ( EP ONLY!!!) = @Sir_Crowley/ cp 635+/ 3/6/2020 DEATHLESS HEL , MAGPLOR , VSS 166CP / VCR+1 299CP / VMOL 394CP / VMA 410CP Sir Killz A Lot , STAMSORC, bg/pvp
  • Rungar
    Rungar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    eso's overcooked "action combat" is the true source of pretty much all eso's imbalances. After all anyone can get cp 810. It doesnt mean youll ever complete the wolfhunter vet dlc HM's.

    since i took measures to reduce the extreme combat disparity i would argue it would be more welcoming to the average player whether they were new or not.










    Its over. You just don't know it yet.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • Sahidom
    Sahidom
    ✭✭✭
    You know I skim through this earlier tonight and I had thought that it might be something that was good and now I've actually read it and this is actually a very bad idea for the game, Iam at 1345 CP and think by adding this type of a system in would really unbalance me to the newer players more than the system that we have now so I would definitely have to go against this due to the balance reasons the system just does not seem like it would balance well for lower CP players just coming into the game compared to the veteran players that are here I understand that it may never be able to become completely balanced for newer players mid-level players but this one just doesn't cut the bill for me at all but I do say you done a lot of thought processing here and that's appreciated just I think it's the wrong approach

    You have a valid concern about unbalancing. They went with a veteran reward system to provide an increase in character performance; but it became unstable when they've kept increasing the cap. The veteran system turned into the standard to complete difficult content; this further widened the gap between new, mid-level, and top end players. And, it evolved into an entitlement program then passively rewarding long-term players. Players must have champion points to qualify for trial groups, therefore it's an entitlement need to complete difficult content. And, I agree with you the system will never become completely balanced.

    It's possible to soften the imbalance though. For example, the current 0-100 point range favors those with high CP players than it does for low CP players. To believe otherwise is the illusion. You would need to broaden the range to 0-250 (or 500) with steep cost-to-benefit curve as you progress up the node. The steep cost-to-benefit curve would soften the imbalance with an increased node range to gain maximum benefit. Also, removing +% benefits (including the +20% to stats) from the champion point system help gap-close the imbalance. How is that possible?

    For example, I'll use my previous post (not trying to promote it but for illustration purposes). All characters can use all their earned CP and each node has a range between 0 - 500. Next, I'll use this chart for demonstration purposes.

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/8WhJxBXSHqbvnd1M6

    With 1,345 points you could max out +Magicka and +Spell Damage and drop points into +Magicka Recovery. It's very specific but you'll have no additional damage mitigation, reduction to costs on dodge roll or break-free, etc. Just an example here, so you supplemented those other needs with item sets and class and/or non-class skills. The same person with 300 points will have the same choices; but may use their champion points to "gap-fill" where their gear choices lack. They may heavily invest in +Spell Damage or split between +Magicka and +Magicka Recovery to improve sustain. The imbalance wouldn't be as critical because their choices still improves their characters performance; other areas such as survival, mobility (-cost to break-free or tumbling), or increasing their resistances may not be priorities yet.

    It's all a matter of perception. Yes, more points means the character can invest in more nodes; but the increase wouldn't be so imbalanced. The difference between high and low wouldn't obsolete low CP characters, and diversifying points spent across several nodes won't unbalance them too. This is possible when you remove +% benefits and move towards precise numerical increases (except the cost reductions is necessary but not unbalancing).

    Or, maybe I'm just insane here and can't puke out the right words to express the beneficial pattern change well enough. :/
    Edited by Sahidom on October 20, 2019 11:07PM
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