PTS Update 21 - Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Changes

kojou

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Does anyone else find the snare resistance on Redgards a bit strange when that feels an awful lot more like a Nord type of thing. It is a pretty neat trait to have though. This makes the Redguard Warden even more interesting now.

This is one of those user testable scenarios to see how the snare resistance stacks... It may be more effective on non-Wardens depending on how diminishing returns works out.

kojou

Rehdaun wrote: »

Preface, this is coming from an end-game magicka player.

What gets me is I don't understand how Zos can say their vision is this with regard to Dunmer and Altmer when it comes to playing magicka.


Reference

I see two nearly identical races as far as combat stats are concerned.

I was hoping they would do something like what they did with Breton this time around with a burning oriented passive on Dunmer, but alas... at least they have more resources. I wonder if this will put Dunmer completely over other choices for stamina DPS.

I don't get the Altmer change at all. It will basically promote a perma-blocking damage oriented build. I know of one player that has an Altmer tank that might even like this change, but most people that I have talked to are giving a collective "huh" to this one.

jhall03

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Hey @ZOS_Gilliam

Can you give Bosmer the 625 Stam/Mag that you just gave Dunmer and then give Dunmer the 1500 Physical/Spell penetration? That way, Bosmer get a constant small increase in resources and Dunmer get a constant small boost to penetration.

I second this

anadandy

Eareindur wrote: »

Bosmer got a nice OP ability (speed) in exchange for their stealthy bonus that now is getting a well deserved nerf. However, that's not all, because they are being compensated with a damage bonus and still we keep hearing whinings. I understand the disappointment of people who built a Bosmer stealthy char, but everything else is beyond me.

Bosmer lost their stealth radius for a passive (stealth detection) that is only useful in PVP. This was the major concern and it was completely ignored by ZOS who, rather than address a passive that by their own admission is useless in PVE, instead added a highly situational damage bonus (a small amount of extra pen for ~2.5 seconds after a dodge roll - something normally used defensively). There is an argument that this is also mostly useful in PVP - but I'll leave that to smarter people than I.

Despite claims of wanting to encourage flexibility and to have each race have a "unique flavor and feel" - Bosmer are having their identity muddled and being pigeonholed into rolly PVP gankers.

ToRelax

kojou wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Does anyone else find the snare resistance on Redgards a bit strange when that feels an awful lot more like a Nord type of thing. It is a pretty neat trait to have though. This makes the Redguard Warden even more interesting now.

This is one of those user testable scenarios to see how the snare resistance stacks... It may be more effective on non-Wardens depending on how diminishing returns works out.

While that is very much something to be tested, currently there are so few and small sources of snare resistance in the game that it becomes almost irrelevant if not stacked, so even if they come with diminishing returns it should be more useful on redguard warden compared to other classes.

Starlock

Just a bit of feedback from the console side that can't test on PTS.

I was quite happy with the first iteration of the racial changes and don't really understand why any of it was changed. The only thing that I felt was questionable was the Bosmer stealth detection ability, because it would be the only racial ability that is completely worthless outside of PvP (and a lot of us do not touch that game mode). Now there are more things I have to complain about, which was not something I expected to happen with revisions.

• Altmer. The previous iteration of Spell Charge looked really great because my lightning mage's spells are really expensive and he has issues sometimes keeping it going. The current iteration in 4.3.2 not only leaves me scratching my head, but honestly kind of upset. He will now struggle more than he did with his magicka reserves to instead get a return on a useless attribute for him. There is no benefit to him getting stamina recovery while casting. The only way it could benefit him is if I converted him to more of a dedicated dd/tank character, but that's not who he is. This passive is so ill-concieved that if he wasn't my first character - meaning I have just about every skill point in the game on him - I wouldn't bother putting points into it. Please, do NOT let this go live!
• Bosmer. This race still has the useless stealth detection radius ability from before. I understand the possible need to reduce the movement speed bonus, and I don't mind the added penetration. However, I'm aware that my character was built around using the Eternal Hunt set and therefore frequently dodge rolling. While I'll benefit from these changes, many other play styles will not... so I understand why folks are complaining about this race right now.
• Imperial. Getting rid of the randomness of this ability was a good change, but splitting the return across all three resources was not. For most characters, a return on one of those three is essentially "wasted" benefit. The big health return looked really solid to me except for the randomness of it. I'd feel better about reducing the health return if it returned one other resource - whichever was highest - instead of both magicka and stamina.

The other changes are mainly a little up and a little down... at least of the races I have characters for. Nothing really noteworthy to comment on for them either way.

kojou

My feedback on the racial passives are as follows:

Altmer: All tests were indicating Altmer, Breton, and Khajiit were fairly balanced with one coming out on top depending on the class and scenario. This pushes the Altmer as the 4 best choice for Magicka (behind Dunmer now since 1875 max stamina and fire resistance is worth more than 125 max magicka IMO).

Bosmer: I figured 20% movement speed was going to be too good to be true so that was going to get reduced, but I feel like we went from one very marginally useful passive, to another very marginally useful passive. It is technically more damage if I happen to roll dodge, but its not like we are going to work a roll dodge into a damage rotation in PvE, and in PvP it probably has a little bit more use, but I would rather have something that had good up-time even if it was a weaker value of penetration or some other bonus. That way we could at least account for it in the build. As it is it is not something I can build around and I will just ignore and pretend that passive doesn't exist on my wood elves.

Everything else I am ok with as it is on 4.3.2 and overall I am happy with the other racial related changes in this patch.

phantasmalD

I'm really disappointed that argonians are still being shoehorned into Healer roles, where is the freedom in that?

Major pain points:
+Healing done buff: This issue is twofold:
1. Healing skills also take your max resource and damage into account and scale of them, so you generally can achive the same numbers just by having an extra few thousand magicka while also being more flexible cause raw magicka and spell damage has way more uses than healing done.
2. In the current meta slightly stronger heals are like whatever, healers are mainly about supplying buffs and sustain to the team (same goes for tanks btw) and most skills that provide those benefits also heal on the side so generally everything is constantly fully healed. Or dead because they didn't dodge a OHKO move.

I'm convinced that even if this passive gave +200% healing done Bretons would still be better options for healers atm.

There's also the minor flavour issue that having high proficiency in Restoration is kinda unprecedented, only game where it was present was Skyrim and that's only because skills got massively simplified, but the main schools that argonians were good at are Illusion and Mysticism. This one can be excused tho as the magic schools technically don't even exist yet lorewise and were kinda arbitrary anyway.

Taking away the Poison resist: Come on, this is even referenced in ESO dialogues and a huge reason why Argonians can survive in Black Marsh

+1000HP: In past games Argonians had -10 Endurance, meaning that they had lower base health than other races. They generally weren't a big tanky race but clever, magical, agile rogues and assassins. Kinda like what Khajiit are on current PTS. :V
Imo +1000 Stamina instead of +1000HP would be more lore abiding as it would also work better with the fact that Argonians are sneaky rogue-mages, their governing traits in the past were speed, agility and intelligence.

Which is another pain point in itself for me, in this rework nothing really represents their assassin-y background, natural combat ability (unarmed combat cause they have claws) and that they are supposed to be the foremost experts in guerilla warfare.

One change that I saw being thrown around and I think would be a fun mechanic is having a buff (like extra damage) trigger on the player or maybe a friendly target when healed. I'd much prefer something like that instead of an uninspiring healing done multiplier.

IzzyStardust

Stam regen. On an Altmer. What in the name of why is going on?!

I took a nap today and I am really legitimately wondering if I’m still sleeping and having a nightmare (no I mean it).

The_Last_Titan

i feel like they wanted there to be a correlation between like altmer, dumer, and orc. like orc had its resource sustain removed so we removed altmers too. Dunmer being like the middle ground. The change kind of made the 3 of them more generic in terms of dps compared to each other, no gray area, just more stats and less stats. dunmer needs another wild card unique passive, maybe physical and spell penetration after doing something, but revert their stats back to previous values, and give altmer some sort of mag sustain or tone down breton and khajiit, if testing shows they really are out performing them.

maybe reduce the khajiit crit chance to like 4-5% but give them flat 1k More* stam and magicka to help the pvp side of crit being a little under powered with resistances

majulook

Wish PTS was up so I could test but I really like this part --- Updated the calculation with your Maximum Health, Magicka, and Stamina interacting with modifiers to better reflect the 20% increase to these stats from your first 100 points spent into each tree of the Champion Point system. Previously, this 20% only applied to your base stats, attributes, enchantments, and 2 through 4 piece bonuses on item sets. After this change, all sources of flat stat increases will be affected. Consumable food and drinks, 5 piece bonuses from item sets, and passives will now be properly affected by the 20% increase.

Twohothardware

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Stam regen. On an Altmer. What in the name of why is going on?!

I took a nap today and I am really legitimately wondering if I’m still sleeping and having a nightmare (no I mean it).

The High Elf change makes zero sense. High Elf needs something else that either benefits damage or tank ability if they are taking away all magicka sustain from them.

DaGhostDS

Bosmer had bonus to stealth since the Daggerfall era, if you really wanted to make them unique you could have gone with :

Bosmer

Bonus stealth speed of 20% (doesn't stack with vampirism stage 4 or magblade)
3 meters stealth range

Plus they have a stealing tradition called "The Rite of Theft" which goes as follow :

The Rite of Theft is a cherished Bosmeri custom, though one which outsiders have trouble appreciating.[72] The Bosmer steal from each other, and upon return of the stolen item, they demand a boon commensurate to the item's worth.[73] In ancient times, the Bosmer Vanirion the Thief was renowned for demanding over two hundred payments after invoking the Rite.[71] In more modern times, the Bosmer of Greenshade are particularly infamous for their thievery.[49]

No PVE Bosmer player want the gimmicky dodge roll thing or the stealth detection it's basically worthless.

Zer0oo

I can live with the fact that dunmer had more dps since ages, even though my proud altmer would deny it . But if furry kitties out dps and out sustain my proud altmer sorc...
THAT IS THE LINE

My inner roleplayer goes mad.



Also can we please not put all insane powerhouse races in one alliance(DC) since this will have a negative impact on the pvp population and all tanks in EP.
All AD race choices feel like useless hippies compared to all the other races. Right now i do not see any pvp reason to pick one of the AD races.



It would be nice if you could get some inside math behind all the changes.
like altmer:
2k mag
200 spell d (1 spell d = 10 mag)
130 effective stam regen (7 sec activation and 30% passive buff for stam reg)
=========
4000 effective power + "useless" 130 secondary reg and no addition useful stats

orc:
1k hp(i can easy transfer hp into stam in pvp)
2k stam
200 wep damage
==========
5000 effective power+additional heal+speed

bardx86

Eareindur wrote: »

The changes look promising. But to wrap everything up, Imperials need something more/different and sadly their changes can't be tested for now... And without any testing to comment on and though I tried to, I can't understand many of the new complaints.

Bosmer got a nice OP ability (speed) in exchange for their stealthy bonus that now is getting a well deserved nerf. However, that's not all, because they are being compensated with a damage bonus and still we keep hearing whinings. I understand the disappointment of people who built a Bosmer stealthy char, but everything else is beyond me.

Altmer complainers need more perspective. After all, it was about balancing races, you know? ZOS want them to be the equivalent Magicka race of Orcs, raw damage without sustain, and nobody can seriously say that Orcs won't be a competitive race. Don't miss that raw damage has an obvious advantage over other kind of bonus to damage (Khajiit with crit) or resources (Bretons with sustain): the succesful use of these bonuses is conditional to certain classes/builts or tweaks. And don't forget that Altmer would still have more raw damage than Dunmer. Besides, sustain in PVE is not that big issue with well organised groups.

Altmers don't have more raw power than dunmers now. 200 magicka difference is nothing.

ValorieW

Well... I got all excited that we were going to get a semi-reasonable number of tokens to fix our screwed up characters and now I find even more screwed up characters. I’m not going to race change a couple of my high elves bc I’m too attached. They’ll just sit, useless. I *WAS* going to purchase Elsweyr this week, after I saw the token thing. Now... nah. Not purchasing. I’m back to being unsure I’m going to keep playing after this patch.

Rehdaun

ValorieW wrote: »

I’m not going to race change a couple of my high elves bc I’m too attached. They’ll just sit, useless.

Totally with ya there! Zos seems to forget that some of us are attached to our characters as they are. Not even 10000 race change tokens will fix that.

edit: grammar

Haashhtaag

Orc is way too over tuned now.

artificial_blue

Are they doing this so that people spend money on race change tokens or any race/any alliance upgrades?

ThePainGuy

ToRelax wrote: »

Altmer change seems a bit weird as they are now outclassed by Breton for PvE, while the change makes very little difference in PvP. Some people don't want as much stam regen or already have another source as a byproduct of a set they want to use anyway, like Bloodspawn, while others get better stam sustain while blocking. The rest just won't add extra stam regen and that's it.
Don't see the point in this change at all.
(edit: Stam regen would work well here I think, if Altmer is just competitive with Breton and Khajiit in PvE. Like I said it doesn't really matter much in PvP, and in PvE they were obviously outclassing Dunmer previously. This just doesn't really help balance without touching the races Altmer was competing with in the first place)

Dunmer honestly is efficient enough now. I would probably reduce the max stats to 1500 and then add as much weapon and spell damage as needed to put their damage output in PvE on equal footing with Altmer/Orc. But as far as PvP goes, they're already in a good spot with this change.

Appreciate your perspective on the most recent changes. I agree with you that Dunmer is efficient now. I am just alluding to their second passive that just gives fire resistance/burning immunity. It feels lazy and unimaginative on ZOS part. The small health boost was cool as dunmer was the only magicka class along with argonian to get max health. Reducing max stats to 1500 or 1750 and giving back health is a decent compromise. Dunmer currently feels to similar to altmer as far as magicka stats and orc for stamina, but lack something really cool for race identity. As I said before, I think dunmer are good, but would love for them to get a little health back in the second passive 300-400hp. Spending 3 skill points on fire resistance alone feels off compared to spending 3 skill points on poison resistance and up to 258 stamina recovery on wood elf.

Altmer is just off base now. Feel bad for that race. I guess we will see what makes it through next weeks PTS...

ToRelax

ThePainGuy wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Altmer change seems a bit weird as they are now outclassed by Breton for PvE, while the change makes very little difference in PvP. Some people don't want as much stam regen or already have another source as a byproduct of a set they want to use anyway, like Bloodspawn, while others get better stam sustain while blocking. The rest just won't add extra stam regen and that's it.
Don't see the point in this change at all.
(edit: Stam regen would work well here I think, if Altmer is just competitive with Breton and Khajiit in PvE. Like I said it doesn't really matter much in PvP, and in PvE they were obviously outclassing Dunmer previously. This just doesn't really help balance without touching the races Altmer was competing with in the first place)

Dunmer honestly is efficient enough now. I would probably reduce the max stats to 1500 and then add as much weapon and spell damage as needed to put their damage output in PvE on equal footing with Altmer/Orc. But as far as PvP goes, they're already in a good spot with this change.

Appreciate your perspective on the most recent changes. I agree with you that Dunmer is efficient now. I am just alluding to their second passive that just gives fire resistance/burning immunity. It feels lazy and unimaginative on ZOS part. The small health boost was cool as dunmer was the only magicka class along with argonian to get max health. Reducing max stats to 1500 or 1750 and giving back health is a decent compromise. Dunmer currently feels to similar to altmer as far as magicka stats and orc for stamina, but lack something really cool for race identity. As I said before, I think dunmer are good, but would love for them to get a little health back in the second passive 300-400hp. Spending 3 skill points on fire resistance alone feels off compared to spending 3 skill points on poison resistance and up to 258 stamina recovery on wood elf.

Altmer is just off base now. Feel bad for that race. I guess we will see what makes it through next weeks PTS...

I honestly don't think adding the health back in at the cost of damage stats is a great idea, as it makes it basically impossible to also compete as damage dealer in PvE without being overloaded in PvP.
Another thing is that Dunmer is a great hybrid race, and for hybrids, health is a very weak stat, whereas stamina and magicka are very difficult to stack high. Another obvious hybrid race would be Khajiit, and they are also focused on one of the more difficult stats to obtain with crit.
It may feel like the skill points in the fire resist passive don't really add much power to the character, but short of just moving some stats there from other passives I don't see a good way to address this.

IzzyStardust

ValorieW wrote: »

Well... I got all excited that we were going to get a semi-reasonable number of tokens to fix our screwed up characters and now I find even more screwed up characters. I’m not going to race change a couple of my high elves bc I’m too attached. They’ll just sit, useless. I *WAS* going to purchase Elsweyr this week, after I saw the token thing. Now... nah. Not purchasing. I’m back to being unsure I’m going to keep playing after this patch.

I feel ya.

ThePainGuy

ToRelax wrote: »

ThePainGuy wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Altmer change seems a bit weird as they are now outclassed by Breton for PvE, while the change makes very little difference in PvP. Some people don't want as much stam regen or already have another source as a byproduct of a set they want to use anyway, like Bloodspawn, while others get better stam sustain while blocking. The rest just won't add extra stam regen and that's it.
Don't see the point in this change at all.
(edit: Stam regen would work well here I think, if Altmer is just competitive with Breton and Khajiit in PvE. Like I said it doesn't really matter much in PvP, and in PvE they were obviously outclassing Dunmer previously. This just doesn't really help balance without touching the races Altmer was competing with in the first place)

Dunmer honestly is efficient enough now. I would probably reduce the max stats to 1500 and then add as much weapon and spell damage as needed to put their damage output in PvE on equal footing with Altmer/Orc. But as far as PvP goes, they're already in a good spot with this change.

Appreciate your perspective on the most recent changes. I agree with you that Dunmer is efficient now. I am just alluding to their second passive that just gives fire resistance/burning immunity. It feels lazy and unimaginative on ZOS part. The small health boost was cool as dunmer was the only magicka class along with argonian to get max health. Reducing max stats to 1500 or 1750 and giving back health is a decent compromise. Dunmer currently feels to similar to altmer as far as magicka stats and orc for stamina, but lack something really cool for race identity. As I said before, I think dunmer are good, but would love for them to get a little health back in the second passive 300-400hp. Spending 3 skill points on fire resistance alone feels off compared to spending 3 skill points on poison resistance and up to 258 stamina recovery on wood elf.

Altmer is just off base now. Feel bad for that race. I guess we will see what makes it through next weeks PTS...

I honestly don't think adding the health back in at the cost of damage stats is a great idea, as it makes it basically impossible to also compete as damage dealer in PvE without being overloaded in PvP.
Another thing is that Dunmer is a great hybrid race, and for hybrids, health is a very weak stat, whereas stamina and magicka are very difficult to stack high. Another obvious hybrid race would be Khajiit, and they are also focused on one of the more difficult stats to obtain with crit.
It may feel like the skill points in the fire resist passive don't really add much power to the character, but short of just moving some stats there from other passives I don't see a good way to address this.

I see your point. Dunmers just feel kind of bland at this point due to the fact that they can't really be true hybrid DPS race. They have to go full magicka or full stamina for dps in the current state of eso. Thats why i thought the new spell recharge fitted better with them. Because it adds a flavor to dunmer that actually fits their lore without making them over the top. With this week changes, they see a bump in dps. For PVE altmer, khajit, and breton are better magicka dps, and orc and redguard is better in stamina dps. This makes them more slotted for PVP then (but ZOS didn't solve the problem from week 1 pts then, where PVE individuals felt that dunmer is losing the top slot for dps compared to live now). Overall I understand your point, that I guess there is little ZOS can do as it may make them to overloaded (wish they could just change fire resist to 1320 spell and phys resist for a sturdy hybrid race).

Steelshiv

dave_harter_ESO wrote: »

I have spent a lot of time and effort on my altmer for outfits and other stuff. I do not want to race change because someone decided to make the altmer a f@#$ing pvp only race. This altmer change is absolutely horrible nerf to the third performing magik race for pve on the current pts. I will quit before bothering with a race change. This recent set of changes is not encouraging me to play the game rather these altmer changes will most likely cause me to just quit if they go live.

Altmer wouldn't even be a good PvP race after the racial nerf (if it isn't fixed) for example, we'll use Magicka Sorcerer. Breton would be totally superior choice for race in every way. The resource pools between Breton and Altmer are not drastically different. Bretons get sustain and Altmer get...more...stamina recovery. Breton gets damage resistance, and Altmer gets a flat bonus to damage which is outclassed by Breton SUSTAIN.

These changes are beyond irritating for me as a magsorc altmer player. If these changes go live as they are im more than likely switching to Breton with a free token, going to be disillusioned with the game again, and stop playing.

Silver_Strider

Personally not a fan of these changes.

Altmer was fine before and didn't really need to be nerfed (if anything, a slight buff to Spell Recharge from 575 to 590 would've been the wiser decision) but the current form of it isn't particularly useful nor does it make much sense. Revert the change entirely.

Dunmer, I feel, is now too front loaded. With only 125 less resources than Altmer and Orc, while having both their 258 Weapon/Spell Damage buff, Dunmer just feels like they received too much of a buff and now sort of overstep the boundaries of being a solid Dual Spec role as the difference in Altmer's Damage and Dunmer is almost non existent while also having 2k extra stamina and Fire Resistance. I'd like to see their Max Stats brought down to 1500 each, while also giving them some slight regen buff of 75 to Magic and Stamina regen on their Fire Resistance passive so that they aren't completely powerless.

Orc changes just sort of feel off. They're a bit overloaded in Racial Passives, which I'm fine with adjusting but their current iteration feels a lot less unique than it once was. I could've seen a Health increase to 1000-1500 in exchange for losing the 4% healing received, while also slightly lowering their resource return from 380 down to 300 Health and Stamina but the current iteration just feels like an old version of Imperial with slightly better damage.

Speaking of Imperial, the Red Diamond change is exactly what I wanted to see be done with Imperial, although I kind of wish that they would have gotten a magic buff to go alone with it to complement Imperial Battlemages more. Just giving Imperial an even split of 1k Magic+Stamina would satisfy me entirely with Imperial as a whole.

Khajiit did not need a buff, like at all. It's damage is already among the highest of all DPS races and coupled with the Shadow Mundus Buff, I don't see this being a good change in terms of balance. It should just be reverted.

I honestly wish you'd stop Shoehorning Argonians into Healers. For the love of god, it's among the weakest bits of lore for Argonians but instead of augmenting their rich lore as Shadowscales (which is constantly flaunted in our faces in game) or their mastery of Guerilla Warfare, we just get more of the same Overhealing crap as always. Cut the Max Magic in half, to make room for some Stamina, reduce Healing done to 3% and give us a conditional Weapon/Spell Damage upon healing or consuming a potion. Just something to help out Argonian DPS and make it more lore friendly.

Bosmer change I'm on the fence. I don't think its bad but I don't think its good either. If ZOS is worried about Bosmer being too OP, how about giving the 1500 Penetration to Bow abilities only. It's lore friendly, not overtly powerful but still useful to a point that it gives a unique flare to Bosmer and makes it so that their DPS does get a mild boost to help Bosmer keep up. I'm still of the mindset that the speed buff shouldn't be a thing and would've preferred that Bosmer got the snare reduction Redguard got instead since it would make more sense. I've no opinion on the Stealth Detection passive but would like to see Bosmer retain some of their own stealth based gameplay so maybe change it to a sneak speed buff instead so that Bosmer are quicker to steal vs a Khajiit being harder to detect.

Redguard didn't really need the snare reduction personally but it's a minor thing overall.

IronWooshu

I think you should rethink Orc's in the Stamina department and give them 1k Stamina and 1.5k Health, this still makes them a tanky brawler but allows Wood Elf and Redguard to still have the totals in raw Stamina, this also makes them the mirror option to Nord which is 1k health and 1.5 Stamina.

As of right now, Orcs took the Nord identity...

TheInfernalRage

Please check the lore before you make changes. It's frustrating when changes happen simply because of "balance" while neglecting the lore.

IronWooshu

actosh wrote: »

Values for the Return are too Low.
Needs to be at least 500of each 5sec CD.
Get rid of cost reduction and add 2k max Magicka.
If keeping the cost reduction, make it flat values

What don't you get about balance? That would be massively OP... that is 4500 Stam/Mag/Health return every 45 seconds (the cooldown of potions) which is way more sustain than an Argonian gets ontop of 2k Health and Stamina as flat stats and then you want to add 2k Magicka... What would be the point of playing any other race?

No... Just No..

Tommy_The_Gun

PTS 4.3.2 Argonian Feedback (sorry for the long post):

I have to say that I very like new changes done to Argonian racial passives. Compared to PTS 4.3.0 many issues & pain points have been addresses. Despite all of this changes being quite a nerf compared to what we have on live server, I remain positive and I do believe that combined with buffs that other races got this will put Argonians more in line.
However, there are some things that still needs to be addressed:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21/p1
(using initial racial changes goals as a reference point):

1. Allow more effective options when picking a race for each role in tanking, healing, or damage dealing.
2. Equalize the overall power that each race provides by using our set bonus efficiency system, which compares the total amount of power that a bonus provides under equal terms.
3. Retain and enhance the unique feeling and gameplay patterns that each race allows.
4. Improve the sense of progression that the racial passives provide when leveling up.
5. Achieve the above goals while still obeying our rich and structured lore and storytelling.

There are some goals that I think have not bean fully fulfilled (pain points):
1. Allow more effective options when picking a race for each role in tanking, healing, or damage dealing:

Right now Argonias are a good choice for a tank role and ok-ish for a Healer role. It is worth noting that they are no longer BIS (best in slot) for any of those and are being outperformed by other races. However - they still have potential to be used in those roles. The same can not be said about DPS role as Argonians have no passive that will improve their potential as a Damage Dealer role.

4. Improve the sense of progression that the racial passives provide when leveling up:

Mostly because Argonian's final passive, that is supposed to be rewarding, as it is a reward for achieving level 50 on an Argonian character and it simply gives 6% healing done. Despite the 2% buff it has received it still feels far too weak.

5. Achieve the above goals while still obeying our rich and structured lore and storytelling:

There are some aspects of Argonain passives that can be improved here and those have their confirmation in the lore & ESO story.

Resourceful:
Increases your Max Magicka by 1000 ; Whenever you drink a potion you restore 4000 Health, Magicka, and Stamina

Lore wise, in ESO and any other TES game we see Argonians not always being magicka - focused. Hunters, assassins, the famous shadowscales and even some tribes in Murkmire are more stamina - oriented.
This passive should also provide some bonus to Max Stamina. Also if this passive had both Max Magick & Max Stamina bonus those bonuses should be slighlty lower than 1000 - not to break the overall power that each race provides.

Example:

Increases your Max Magicka and Max Stamina by 750 ; Whenever you drink a potion you restore 4000 Health, Magicka, and Stamina

Life Mender:
Increases your Healing Done by 6%

Although this passive was slightly buffed (4% + 2% buff), 6%, still feels incredibly weak. Especially if this is passive that you unlock at level 50. It just does not feel rewarding. Adding some form of weapon and/or spell dmg to this passive would help a lot. It would enable Argonians as a DPS role in some way and also it would improve the sense of progression. Ideally it could be something like:
Gain 70 spell damage or weapon damage, depending on which of your maximum resources is higher - Max Magicka or Max Stamina.
(So if your max magicka is higher, you will get spell dmg bonus, if your stamina is higher, you will get weapon dmg bonus).
Note that 70 is just an example, it might be something different, just wanted to show that it should not be anything huge. The goal is just to buff it slightly, so Argonians will be at least acceptable as a DPS.

Example:

Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done by 6%
Gain 70 spell damage or weapon damage, depending on which of your maximum resources is higher - Max Magicka or Max Stamina.

Argonian Resistance:
Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.

On live server, this passive's effects (poison & Disease Resistance & immunity) are shared between Argonian & Wood Elf. As a result, both races suffered. Adding a small bonus to Poison Resistance (but without poison immunity) could be potentially helpful lore wise. The buff provided by this would be insignificant and will be rather a racial "flavour" than an actual buff.
Of course Wood Elf should also get similar small Disease Resistance bonus (but without disease immunity). The value for poison resistance could be 1/3 of the Disease Resistance (2310 / 3 = 770 ).

Example:

Argonian:
Argonian Resistance: Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Poison Resistance by 770 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.

Wood Elf:
Resist Affliction: Increases your Max Stamina by 2000 and your Disease Resistance by 770 and your Poison Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Poisoned status effect.

In lore, Argonans are said to be able to "adapt" easily. And this is what Argonian passives should reflect. Flexibility. "Jack of all trades, master of none" You will be able to fulfil every role, but you will never be Best at any of them.

Eareindur

bardx86 wrote: »

Eareindur wrote: »

The changes look promising. But to wrap everything up, Imperials need something more/different and sadly their changes can't be tested for now... And without any testing to comment on and though I tried to, I can't understand many of the new complaints.

Bosmer got a nice OP ability (speed) in exchange for their stealthy bonus that now is getting a well deserved nerf. However, that's not all, because they are being compensated with a damage bonus and still we keep hearing whinings. I understand the disappointment of people who built a Bosmer stealthy char, but everything else is beyond me.

Altmer complainers need more perspective. After all, it was about balancing races, you know? ZOS want them to be the equivalent Magicka race of Orcs, raw damage without sustain, and nobody can seriously say that Orcs won't be a competitive race. Don't miss that raw damage has an obvious advantage over other kind of bonus to damage (Khajiit with crit) or resources (Bretons with sustain): the succesful use of these bonuses is conditional to certain classes/builts or tweaks. And don't forget that Altmer would still have more raw damage than Dunmer. Besides, sustain in PVE is not that big issue with well organised groups.

Altmers don't have more raw power than dunmers now. 200 magicka difference is nothing.

Well, it's something and can be further increased adding % bonus to stats. But, anyway, why should the gap be greater? Why should Altmer have what no other race has? If we are talking about changing the flavour of Spell Recharge, let's see the proposals, but Altmer can't regain the ability as it was.