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Lowest resource restore belongs to the Dunmer
twing1_
✭✭✭✭
Spell recharge, as it is now (restoring the lowest resource pool) does not fit the altmer lore. Altmer are pure mages, and as such their passives should reflect that. I agree their sustain shouldn't compare to that of Breton, but the sustain passive should still contribute to their max stat, albeit less consistently than that of Breton as to solidify their spot as the top magicka damage dealer (where sustain is not an issue) in a lore friendly way.
That being said, spell recharge in its current iteration does have a place, though not in the altmer passives. This belongs to the dunmer. Dunmer are notoriously athletic warriors that are also adept in the ways of magic. As such, their passives should reflect both athletic and magical prowess, though not to the extremes of the top magicka race (altmer) nor the top stamina race (Orc). I feel that with a little playing around with these two races, the race changes of 4.3.2 would be near perfect.
Here are my proposed changes:
Altmer
Keep the 2000 max magicka and 258 spell damage
Spell absorption (in place of spell recharge): taking direct damage from a spell projectile restores your magicka by [X]. This can occur once every 4 seconds.
Explanation: allowing altmers to have access to magicka sustain will keep them toward the top of end game magicka dps parses, as their lore suggests. Tying that sustain to something outside of the user's control (an enemies magic attack) puts them far behind Bretons in the sustain battle, yet gives them an edge over other magicka races who do not have this benefit. This should ultimately result in altmer being the superior magicka bursty dps with Breton being the more prolonged sustaining dps, and the other races, particularly dunmer, following not far behind. This change would not only keep them balanced in the dps race, but also reflect proper TES lore and give them the identity the deserve.
Dunmer:
Reduce both max magicka and max stamina down to 1500 (currently at 1875). Keep the 258 spell and weapon damage.
Add Combat Mastery: dealing direct damage restores your lowest resource pool by [X]. This can occur once every 5 seconds. (similar to spell recharge in its current form)
Explanation: reducing dunmers max stats puts them clearly behind both the top contenders for magicka and stamina burst dps (altmer and orc, respectively), although the sustain for the lowest resource provides them with a great deal more utility than either of these other races offer. This would add a very unique highlight to the duality of their nature as both skilled warriors and adept mages, allowing for both more combat ready mages (with greater access to roll dodge, block, break free, and other combat mechanics requiring the use of stamina) and more magicka utility warriors (with greater access to crowd control, buffs, and escape mechanics relying on the use of magicka). This change would put any doubts to their hybrid nature to bed, while also keeping them competitive in end game content.
I feel giving dunmer the off-stat resource restore at the cost of 500 magicka (offensive power equivalent to about 47 spell damage) would help to differentiate these two races, while at the same time keeping them both very very competitive. (one performing slightly better in dummy parses and trials, the other performing better in solo/pvp play).
It introduces tradeoffs between altmer and dunmer that currently aren't there (as right now there is no reason to choose dunmer over altmer from a magicka perspective because they are identical outside from dunmer having 125 less magicka). Instead of magicka dds automatically choosing altmer, with these changes they'd be presented a difficult question: "do I want maximum potential magicka damage, or do I want a more defensive play style that allows for more roll dodging and combat mechanics?" The same question can be asked vs. Orcs and dunmer, but for stamina dds and magicka utility.
TL;DR: give altmer magicka sustain based off of enemies magicka attacks hitting you (very inconsistent sustain), reduce dunmers' max stats (barely) in favor of allowing their direct damage to restore their lowest resource to highlight their hybrid nature.
Please let me know what you all think, and give this post some buzz to catch the attention of the devs. I've also posted in the official racial feedback thread, so if you like the idea feel free to up vote that one too.
Edit: added current dunmer resource stats for reference and clarity
Edit 2: added a little more bones to my argument.
Edit 3: numbers
Edited by twing1_ on February 6, 2019 8:14PM That being said, spell recharge in its current iteration does have a place, though not in the altmer passives. This belongs to the dunmer. Dunmer are notoriously athletic warriors that are also adept in the ways of magic. As such, their passives should reflect both athletic and magical prowess, though not to the extremes of the top magicka race (altmer) nor the top stamina race (Orc). I feel that with a little playing around with these two races, the race changes of 4.3.2 would be near perfect.
Here are my proposed changes:
Altmer
Keep the 2000 max magicka and 258 spell damage
Spell absorption (in place of spell recharge): taking direct damage from a spell projectile restores your magicka by [X]. This can occur once every 4 seconds.
Explanation: allowing altmers to have access to magicka sustain will keep them toward the top of end game magicka dps parses, as their lore suggests. Tying that sustain to something outside of the user's control (an enemies magic attack) puts them far behind Bretons in the sustain battle, yet gives them an edge over other magicka races who do not have this benefit. This should ultimately result in altmer being the superior magicka bursty dps with Breton being the more prolonged sustaining dps, and the other races, particularly dunmer, following not far behind. This change would not only keep them balanced in the dps race, but also reflect proper TES lore and give them the identity the deserve.
Dunmer:
Reduce both max magicka and max stamina down to 1500 (currently at 1875). Keep the 258 spell and weapon damage.
Add Combat Mastery: dealing direct damage restores your lowest resource pool by [X]. This can occur once every 5 seconds. (similar to spell recharge in its current form)
Explanation: reducing dunmers max stats puts them clearly behind both the top contenders for magicka and stamina burst dps (altmer and orc, respectively), although the sustain for the lowest resource provides them with a great deal more utility than either of these other races offer. This would add a very unique highlight to the duality of their nature as both skilled warriors and adept mages, allowing for both more combat ready mages (with greater access to roll dodge, block, break free, and other combat mechanics requiring the use of stamina) and more magicka utility warriors (with greater access to crowd control, buffs, and escape mechanics relying on the use of magicka). This change would put any doubts to their hybrid nature to bed, while also keeping them competitive in end game content.
I feel giving dunmer the off-stat resource restore at the cost of 500 magicka (offensive power equivalent to about 47 spell damage) would help to differentiate these two races, while at the same time keeping them both very very competitive. (one performing slightly better in dummy parses and trials, the other performing better in solo/pvp play).
It introduces tradeoffs between altmer and dunmer that currently aren't there (as right now there is no reason to choose dunmer over altmer from a magicka perspective because they are identical outside from dunmer having 125 less magicka). Instead of magicka dds automatically choosing altmer, with these changes they'd be presented a difficult question: "do I want maximum potential magicka damage, or do I want a more defensive play style that allows for more roll dodging and combat mechanics?" The same question can be asked vs. Orcs and dunmer, but for stamina dds and magicka utility.
TL;DR: give altmer magicka sustain based off of enemies magicka attacks hitting you (very inconsistent sustain), reduce dunmers' max stats (barely) in favor of allowing their direct damage to restore their lowest resource to highlight their hybrid nature.
Please let me know what you all think, and give this post some buzz to catch the attention of the devs. I've also posted in the official racial feedback thread, so if you like the idea feel free to up vote that one too.
Edit: added current dunmer resource stats for reference and clarity
Edit 2: added a little more bones to my argument.
Edit 3: numbers
5
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Good idea but proposed numbers are bad.
For altmer (dps race) to proc recovery on incoming projectile (not even aoe!) is mostly useless in PVE.
Your dunmer is like an altmer now though with less max resource. And for a vast majority of stam PVE builds any magicka recovery higher then base is c-o-m-p-l-e-t-e-l-y useless. So only mag dunmer will win from it, but still will be weaker everywhere.
For PVP there will be some sense in both changes, though numbers should be slighty higher.1 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don't try and offload your weirdo bonus on us. We're (well not all of us) happy with our free spell and weapon damage.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."7 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Good idea but proposed numbers are bad.
For altmer (dps race) to proc recovery on incoming projectile (not even aoe!) is mostly useless in PVE.
Your dunmer is like an altmer now though with less max resource. And for a vast majority of stam PVE builds any magicka recovery higher then base is c-o-m-p-l-e-t-e-l-y useless. So only mag dunmer will win from it, but still will be weaker everywhere.
For PVP there will be some sense in both changes, though numbers should be slighty higher.
As a tank player, I can tell you the lowest resource restore in pve is not useless. The current meta for tanks requires a huge spec into magicka recovery, which has to be the lowest stat so that shards and orbs restore stamina. While yes, looking at it from a Stam dps perspective the lowest resource restore is utterly useless, part of the idea of the racial balance in the first place was to make all roles more of an option for all races, tank included.
And yes, my proposed altmer change is near useless in endgame pve, but it is still more useful than what it currently is. But that's the point, zos has made it clear that they wanted to take out the altmer sustain tools. They just did so in a lore unfriendly way. My proposed change at least is lore friendly and also complements pvp play quite nicely, while maintaining their identity as a pure magicka race.
Edit: meant pve but typoed pvpEdited by twing1_ on February 6, 2019 5:26PM0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭Don't try and offload your weirdo bonus on us. We're (well not all of us) happy with our free spell and weapon damage.
I'm not proposing we remove the dunmer weapon and spell damage, just that lowest resource restore is added on top of it to complement it a little more and support the duality of their nature a little better.0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well if it's free... although I'm not sure that's balanced.Don't try and offload your weirdo bonus on us. We're (well not all of us) happy with our free spell and weapon damage.
I'm not proposing we remove the dunmer weapon and spell damage, just that lowest resource restore is added on top of it to complement it a little more and support the duality of their nature a little better.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭
Well if it's free... although I'm not sure that's balanced.Don't try and offload your weirdo bonus on us. We're (well not all of us) happy with our free spell and weapon damage.
I'm not proposing we remove the dunmer weapon and spell damage, just that lowest resource restore is added on top of it to complement it a little more and support the duality of their nature a little better.
I proposed dropping max resources from 1875 to 1500 for balancing purposes. This also helps distinguish altmer and dunmer as separate although similar races.0 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Good idea but proposed numbers are bad.
For altmer (dps race) to proc recovery on incoming projectile (not even aoe!) is mostly useless in PVE.
Your dunmer is like an altmer now though with less max resource. And for a vast majority of stam PVE builds any magicka recovery higher then base is c-o-m-p-l-e-t-e-l-y useless. So only mag dunmer will win from it, but still will be weaker everywhere.
For PVP there will be some sense in both changes, though numbers should be slighty higher.
As a tank player, I can tell you the lowest resource restore in pve is not useless. The current meta for tanks requires a huge spec into magicka recovery, which has to be the lowest stat so that shards and orbs restore stamina. While yes, looking at it from a Stam dps perspective the lowest resource restore is utterly useless, part of the idea of the racial balance in the first place was to make all roles more of an option for all races, tank included.
And yes, my proposed altmer change is near useless in endgame pve, but it is still more useful than what it currently is. But that's the point, zos has made it clear that they wanted to take out the altmer sustain tools. They just did so in a lore unfriendly way. My proposed change at least is lore friendly and also complements pvp play quite nicely, while maintaining their identity as a pure magicka race.
Edit: meant pve but typoed pvp
Yes, it will be great for tanks, sure. But honestly saying i don't remember when i saw dunmer or altmer tank last time.. as fake tanks yes, lol.. and actually altmer passive is not useless, look at vMA or any content where you need to roll-dodge a lot. It's simply that altmer is nerfed magicka-wise that way, when khajiit and breton were slightly buffed.2 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Look, another thread where people are making assumptions about balance before being able to test it.
Can we not? Im more than happy with where dunmer is right now, with no sustain -A Dunmer playerEU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade1 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.
Constructive criticism only please.1 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Good idea but proposed numbers are bad.
For altmer (dps race) to proc recovery on incoming projectile (not even aoe!) is mostly useless in PVE.
Your dunmer is like an altmer now though with less max resource. And for a vast majority of stam PVE builds any magicka recovery higher then base is c-o-m-p-l-e-t-e-l-y useless. So only mag dunmer will win from it, but still will be weaker everywhere.
For PVP there will be some sense in both changes, though numbers should be slighty higher.
As a tank player, I can tell you the lowest resource restore in pve is not useless. The current meta for tanks requires a huge spec into magicka recovery, which has to be the lowest stat so that shards and orbs restore stamina. While yes, looking at it from a Stam dps perspective the lowest resource restore is utterly useless, part of the idea of the racial balance in the first place was to make all roles more of an option for all races, tank included.
And yes, my proposed altmer change is near useless in endgame pve, but it is still more useful than what it currently is. But that's the point, zos has made it clear that they wanted to take out the altmer sustain tools. They just did so in a lore unfriendly way. My proposed change at least is lore friendly and also complements pvp play quite nicely, while maintaining their identity as a pure magicka race.
Edit: meant pve but typoed pvp
Yes, it will be great for tanks, sure. But honestly saying i don't remember when i saw dunmer or altmer tank last time.. as fake tanks yes, lol.. and actually altmer passive is not useless, look at vMA or any content where you need to roll-dodge a lot. It's simply that altmer is nerfed magicka-wise that way, when khajiit and breton were slightly buffed.
So I guess then adding that stamina restore to dunmer would give a valid tradeoff between the two races. As it currently stands, there is no reason a magicka user would choose dunmer over altmer (same spell damage, same magicka restore, lower max magicka). Unless they really like fire resist.
Mages don't need spell damage or stamina scaling, so right now I think the problem is dunmer passives aren't being used to their hybrid potential. I think restoring the lowest resource is more of a hybrid utility than a magicka pure (as altmer should be) , and as such I believe it should be granted to the dunmer at the cost of overall magic power.0 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.
Constructive criticism only please.
I don't see any constructive post to begin with, just a player frustrated by new Altmer changes wanting to pass his pve sustain nerf to dunmer, gutting him even more for pve magicka dps.
Yeah, sure we're wrong and you just here for the balance reasons, understood.0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »Look, another thread where people are making assumptions about balance before being able to test it.
Can we not? Im more than happy with where dunmer is right now, with no sustain -A Dunmer player
My original concern isn't with balance, it's with straying too far from the lore. Altmer are the mage pure race. Dunmer are the hybrid warrior-mage race.
Stamina restore on an altmer seems misplaced, while it seems very fitting for the dunmer.0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.
Constructive criticism only please.
I don't see any constructive post to begin with, just a player frustrated by new Altmer changes wanting to pass his pve sustain nerf to dunmer, gutting him even more for pve magicka dps.
Yeah, sure we're wrong and you just here for the balance reasons, understood.
I don't have an altmer character, actually. And it's a concern of lore, not balance. The alternatives I've proposed are my amateur attempts at rebalance while appropriately redistributing what I believe to be a lore breaking racial passive to the correct race.
All constructive criticism regarding that rebalancing is welcome.0 -
eso_nya✭✭✭✭✭
✭put it on the race u want dk tanks to change to. will work nicely with cookie shield into helping hands.0 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.
Constructive criticism only please.
I don't see any constructive post to begin with, just a player frustrated by new Altmer changes wanting to pass his pve sustain nerf to dunmer, gutting him even more for pve magicka dps.
Yeah, sure we're wrong and you just here for the balance reasons, understood.
I don't have an altmer character, actually. And it's a concern of lore, not balance. The alternatives I've proposed are my amateur attempts at rebalance while appropriately redistributing what I believe to be a lore breaking racial passive to the correct race.
All constructive criticism regarding that rebalancing is welcome.
Your rebalance proposal have nothing to do with a lore, isn't it? Altmers had weakness to spell damage and not an absorbtion ability. This should go to Breton if we're speaking lore here then, but they are overbuffed already. And nerfing already lower resource pools of stamina/magicka dunmers will push them even lower on dd go to list not providing anything useful at all. Hybrids are not working as good in eso (at all in pve)so there is no reason to turn them into one now. We need more dead races? Don't think so.Edited by colossalvoids on February 6, 2019 6:10PM1 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.
He just took the greater power from Skyrim Bretons, and gave it to Altmer. This muh lore crowd is hilarious.2 -
The_Lex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DELETED.
Summary: Altmer changes were surprising, to say the least.
If anything, it would be more in keeping with the lore if they worked this into the passives: "they are also somewhat vulnerable to magicka, fire, frost, and shock, which makes them very weak against their strongest point - magic." This was taken straight from BGS description of Altmer.
Edited by The_Lex on February 6, 2019 6:18PM3 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.
Constructive criticism only please.
I don't see any constructive post to begin with, just a player frustrated by new Altmer changes wanting to pass his pve sustain nerf to dunmer, gutting him even more for pve magicka dps.
Yeah, sure we're wrong and you just here for the balance reasons, understood.
I don't have an altmer character, actually. And it's a concern of lore, not balance. The alternatives I've proposed are my amateur attempts at rebalance while appropriately redistributing what I believe to be a lore breaking racial passive to the correct race.
All constructive criticism regarding that rebalancing is welcome.
Your rebalance proposal have nothing to do with a lore, isn't it? Altmers had weakness to spell damage and not an absorbtion ability. This should go to Breton if we're speaking lore here then, but they are overbuffed already. And nerfing already lower resource pools of stamina/magicka dunmers will push them even lower on dd go to list not providing anything useful at all. Hybrids are not working as good in eso (at all in pve)so there is no reason to turn them into one now. We need more dead races? Don't think so.
As someone on this thread earlier pointed out, the lower resource restore helps tremendously in end game content where dodge rolling and blocking and utility stamina is useful. This change in my mind would make the choice between altmer and dunmer harder because you would have to ask yourself "do I want max magicka damage? Or am I okay trading 500 max magicka for a more defensive play style that allows me to roll dodge and block more?"
As it currently is, dunmer fall behind altmer in all regards except fire resist. 125 less max magicka, same spell damage.
I appreciate you moving past bashing me without ideas/recommendations.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.
Constructive criticism only please.
I don't see any constructive post to begin with, just a player frustrated by new Altmer changes wanting to pass his pve sustain nerf to dunmer, gutting him even more for pve magicka dps.
Yeah, sure we're wrong and you just here for the balance reasons, understood.
OP is probably altmer tank and wants more magicka recovery.. I support him in this idea, but as we see ZOS has problem balancing even pigeonholed races, when race=role, and if any race will qualify for any role I'm terrified to see results of it.1 -
ScruffyWhiskers✭✭✭✭✭You know that there are sets, glyphs, skills and drinks that can let you find the right sustain?
Edit: Add Mundus to that too.Edited by ScruffyWhiskers on February 6, 2019 6:22PM0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.
Constructive criticism only please.
I don't see any constructive post to begin with, just a player frustrated by new Altmer changes wanting to pass his pve sustain nerf to dunmer, gutting him even more for pve magicka dps.
Yeah, sure we're wrong and you just here for the balance reasons, understood.
OP is probably altmer tank and wants more magicka recovery.. I support him in this idea, but as we see ZOS has problem balancing even pigeonholed races, when race=role, and if any race will qualify for any role I'm terrified to see results of it.
Argonian tank actually. And the lowest resource restore is actually a fantastic tanking passive. Taking it away from altmer wouldn't benefit the tanks of that race.
As to why I'm butting my head into all of this, I'm a lore traditionalist and it seems to make sense to me that the race widely regarded as the "hybrid" race would have lower stat restore.0 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not lore friendly
Only bretons can spell absorb. Altmers are all about damageI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations1 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.
He just took the greater power from Skyrim Bretons, and gave it to Altmer. This muh lore crowd is hilarious.
And where could the Bretons have gotten thst ability? It couldn't possibly have come from their elf blood, could it? 😉0 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.
He just took the greater power from Skyrim Bretons, and gave it to Altmer. This muh lore crowd is hilarious.
And where could the Bretons have gotten thst ability? It couldn't possibly have come from their elf blood, could it? 😉
Unlikely since Altmer are historically weak against destruction magic.1 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.
Constructive criticism only please.
I don't see any constructive post to begin with, just a player frustrated by new Altmer changes wanting to pass his pve sustain nerf to dunmer, gutting him even more for pve magicka dps.
Yeah, sure we're wrong and you just here for the balance reasons, understood.
I don't have an altmer character, actually. And it's a concern of lore, not balance. The alternatives I've proposed are my amateur attempts at rebalance while appropriately redistributing what I believe to be a lore breaking racial passive to the correct race.
All constructive criticism regarding that rebalancing is welcome.
Your rebalance proposal have nothing to do with a lore, isn't it? Altmers had weakness to spell damage and not an absorbtion ability. This should go to Breton if we're speaking lore here then, but they are overbuffed already. And nerfing already lower resource pools of stamina/magicka dunmers will push them even lower on dd go to list not providing anything useful at all. Hybrids are not working as good in eso (at all in pve)so there is no reason to turn them into one now. We need more dead races? Don't think so.
As someone on this thread earlier pointed out, the lower resource restore helps tremendously in end game content where dodge rolling and blocking and utility stamina is useful. This change in my mind would make the choice between altmer and dunmer harder because you would have to ask yourself "do I want max magicka damage? Or am I okay trading 500 max magicka for a more defensive play style that allows me to roll dodge and block more?"
As it currently is, dunmer fall behind altmer in all regards except fire resist. 125 less max magicka, same spell damage.
I appreciate you moving past bashing me without ideas/recommendations.
There will be no choise really, as damage and main pool sustain comes first in end game. There are plenty of stamina in any magicka pve build to dodge/break free enough in any of existing trials up to date. Dunmer have no main pool sustain so already falls behind any race with a bigger pool or regen passives. Stamina? Go Orc, Redguard, Khajiit or Bosmer. Magicka? Khajiit, Breton or an Altmer (even with newly introduced nerf) as there no reason to lose sustain and pool/damage.
And there were no bashing from my side (maybe it's a cultural thingy thou), I still see no point in this thread at all. Dunmer is meh already, so no need to decrease it's potency in competetive pve.1 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.
Constructive criticism only please.
I don't see any constructive post to begin with, just a player frustrated by new Altmer changes wanting to pass his pve sustain nerf to dunmer, gutting him even more for pve magicka dps.
Yeah, sure we're wrong and you just here for the balance reasons, understood.
I don't have an altmer character, actually. And it's a concern of lore, not balance. The alternatives I've proposed are my amateur attempts at rebalance while appropriately redistributing what I believe to be a lore breaking racial passive to the correct race.
All constructive criticism regarding that rebalancing is welcome.
Your rebalance proposal have nothing to do with a lore, isn't it? Altmers had weakness to spell damage and not an absorbtion ability. This should go to Breton if we're speaking lore here then, but they are overbuffed already. And nerfing already lower resource pools of stamina/magicka dunmers will push them even lower on dd go to list not providing anything useful at all. Hybrids are not working as good in eso (at all in pve)so there is no reason to turn them into one now. We need more dead races? Don't think so.
As someone on this thread earlier pointed out, the lower resource restore helps tremendously in end game content where dodge rolling and blocking and utility stamina is useful. This change in my mind would make the choice between altmer and dunmer harder because you would have to ask yourself "do I want max magicka damage? Or am I okay trading 500 max magicka for a more defensive play style that allows me to roll dodge and block more?"
As it currently is, dunmer fall behind altmer in all regards except fire resist. 125 less max magicka, same spell damage.
I appreciate you moving past bashing me without ideas/recommendations.
There will be no choise really, as damage and main pool sustain comes first in end game. There are plenty of stamina in any magicka pve build to dodge/break free enough in any of existing trials up to date. Dunmer have no main pool sustain so already falls behind any race with a bigger pool or regen passives. Stamina? Go Orc, Redguard, Khajiit or Bosmer. Magicka? Khajiit, Breton or an Altmer (even with newly introduced nerf) as there no reason to lose sustain and pool/damage.
And there were no bashing from my side (maybe it's a cultural thingy thou), I still see no point in this thread at all. Dunmer is meh already, so no need to decrease it's potency in competetive pve.
Trials aren't the only competitive endgame content. vMA (solo arena) requires considerably more roll dodging and other combat mechanics, because you do not have someone there to take aggro away from you.
We both agree that there is no reason to play a dunmer over an altmer as the way things are currently. I think where our views differ is that I would like them to introduce a reason to play this race unique to the dunmer (in the form of off-stat resource utility) whereas you would like their max damage potential brought up to almost identical levels as the altmer.
While I agree that in endgame all races should be competitive with each other, I feel simply boosting dunmers stats to match those of Altmer (which is where it is right now, minus 125 magicka) is depriving both races of their racial identity.
I feel giving dunmer the off-stat resource restore at the cost of 500 magicka (offensive power equivalent to about 47 spell damage) would help to differentiate these races, while at the same time keeping them both very very competitive. (one performing slightly better in dummy parses and trials, the other performing better in solo/pvp play).
Edit: numbersEdited by twing1_ on February 6, 2019 8:13PM0 -
FrankonPC✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »When people like this don't work at zos I still have some hope in combat team. And talking about lore, restoring magicka after getting hit by a spell is as far from lore as a stamina return.
Constructive criticism only please.
I don't see any constructive post to begin with, just a player frustrated by new Altmer changes wanting to pass his pve sustain nerf to dunmer, gutting him even more for pve magicka dps.
Yeah, sure we're wrong and you just here for the balance reasons, understood.
and you're here to be a warm ray of sunshine on what is actually a decent op. Understood.1
