PTS Update 21 - Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Changes

zaria

prototypefb wrote: »

khajiit and wood elf should have dark stalker passive from vampire - ability to move without movement speed penalty while crouched/stealthed.
atm stealth classes are 99% forced to play vampire

This one as in Khajiit is good enough. It would be nice buff for Bosmer however.
Lots select Bosmers as they are cute and Khajiit is one of the few races who can pull off vampire without looking horrible.
Dunmer manages it pretty well to.

theyancey

I'll chime in and say that the Altmer mag/stam restore should most definitely be based on the HIGHER value instead of the lower. This would benefit both magden and stamden in a class that has already been nerfed into a borderline joke.

Zypheran

I like the changes in general. I think they offer a lot more diversity. I'm looking forward to finally having a viable magicka Khajiit.
I would suggest though, for future tweaks, would it not be worth expanding on the 'increase by x to whichever resource is higher' idea? Rather than saying an orc has to be stam and a high elf has to be magicka, I would love to see more perks say something like "increase your max resource pool by 2000". Same for recovery and damage. Let the player decide whether to play the race as stam or mag.
It's a small tweak that wouldn't affect existing builds or balance but would allow even more diversity.

MLGProPlayer

Here is a good way to look at Altmer right now.

Why would anyone EVER pick Altmer (other than if they like the way they look)?

They provide the same DPS as Breton/Khajiit/Dunmer, but NOTHING above and beyond what those other races provide.

- Breton = Top magicka DPS + Top magicka sustain
- Khajiit = Top magicka DPS + Top stamina DPS
- Dunmer = Top magicka DPS + Top stamina DPS
- Altmer = Top magicka DPS...

lueckgenb16_ESO

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Here is a good way to look at Altmer right now.

Why would anyone EVER pick Altmer (other than if they like the way they look)?

They provide the same DPS as Breton/Khajiit/Dunmer, but NOTHING above and beyond what those other races provide.

- Breton = Top magicka DPS + Top magicka sustain
- Khajiit = Top magicka DPS + Top stamina DPS
- Dunmer = Top magicka DPS + Top stamina DPS
- Altmer = Top magicka DPS...

Yes it's so obvious... and how the actual HECK would ANYONE think about giving STAM sustain to Altmer? This is such a lazy and dumb change...

morrowinger

To ESO guys: High Elf new racial bonuses- very bad re-balance=nerf.

"Spell Recharge: The return for this passive will now restore your lowest maximum resource, rather than your highest."
High elf is magic-oriented race, usually gamers use it for mage-builds.
Lowest resource in this case - Stamina. WE DON'T NEED STAMINA REGEN, BUT MANA !!!
After few last patches players got big problem with sustain mana!
And you guys do it worst again!! When we play in ESO game, you, guys, play games with us.
You must return Spellcharge: 9% Magicka Recovery and just increase in up to 30%.

"Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000"
No-no-no! Return it back! We will lost a few thousands of mana.

"Elemental Talent: 4% Fire/Shock/Ice damage → Increases your Spell Damage by 258."
My be it's good, because last few patches, for example, MageSorcs lost damage, role moved to support side.

In last massive update you nerfed shields so bad. You tried to play now as MageSorc in PVP ? die very fast. At same time some melee classes can fight with group of enemy players and never die!

Breton:
"Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Increases your Max Magicka by 2000."
Same - lost a lot of mana, need return it back.

If you cannot do it better, just return it back!

danielarvynn1

DISCLAIMER: I don't have the maths behind my reasoning here but I've done my research and testing, and most importantly, experience. I did my DPS test on a Magicka NIghtblade with Spell Strat, Siroria and Valkyn Skoria against a 6-Million target Dummy.

When it comes to magicka DD races, Altmer and Dunmer feel lackluster with the changes to their passives. Compared to a Khajiit's 8% Spell Crit bonus, a 258 Spell Damage bonus is not as powerful. Ever since I've been doing 4-man and 12-man activities in ESO, Crit is always king, even after some of the nerfs received, as it scales way better with raid buffs. This would also come in tandem with the recent buff(or un-nerfing) of Shadow Mundus. Even better, Khajiit has a tiny bit of recovery no matter how negligible that is. This makes them a better Dunmer on live servers.

Also the 7% Cost Reduction on Breton is better sustain in comparison to High Elves' recently changed Spell Recharge passive(utter useless) and none to Dark Elves at all. The loss in Spell Damage bonus to Bretons can be made up by using a Berserker enchant, which grants more Spell Damage (with at least 60% uptime) than the bonuses from both Altmer and Dunmer, therefore making them more effective in DPS. On top of that, they can be tank-ier with the resistance buff received.

So what can we do to salvage Altmer and Dunmer?

Altmer:
1. Increase Spell Damage Bonus up to 300
2. Revert Spell Recharge passive from 4.3.2 to 4.3.0, where it will restore whichever is higher. Or better yet, keep the same passive in 4.3.2 but it should be based on Maximum percentage at a given point, instead of the Max Value, i.e. I have 70% Max Magicka and 100% Stamina at the moment, Spell Recharge will restore Magicka; if I have 60% Magicka and 50% Stamina, Spell Recharge will restore stamina. This will be a good balance but I don't think it's game breaking.
3. Since most changes are going with lore, increase Max Magicka Bonus to 2500.

Dunmer:
1. Change Resist Flame to Destructive Ancestry, where Dunmer's would still receive Flame Damage resistance and Burn Immunity, and add an increased 50% chance to Burn enemies (or increase Burn Damage to 50%).
2. Bump Ruination to 270 Weapon and Spell Damage, or increase Dynamic to 2000 Max Magicka and Stamina.

The suggestions that I made above will someone keep most of the races' identity and would still be viable options and more appealing to everyone.

Cinbri

So Imperials now have Alteration set bonus effect. That is indeed far more versatile than just block cost glyph effect.

josiahva

Imperial:

3% cost reduction to all abilities instead of the 5% bash and block reduction. This is a great improvement...I could wish for a flat magicka stat bonus as well...but even without that, combined with Robes of Alteration Mastery, this makes Imperial an appealing race now...at least as a tank,even as a healer, or a healer/tank hybrid. It will make my Healer/Tank hybrid better for sure(who is currently an altmer, but wont be for long). Please ZOS...make the race perfect for hybrid and tank builds by adding 1000 magicka. Aside from that....this is definitely heading in the right direction

Starlock

Current thoughts from an console player:

• I'm really distraught that the nonsensical change to Altmer in 4.3.2. has not been reverted in 4.3.3. My lightning mage does not need stamina regeneration and he will be loosing a lot of magicka regen. That is not okay. Stop it. I liked the original presentation of the race changes because they mostly preserved the original flavor without taking things away. It is not okay to take away magica regen from Altmer and replace it with something useless like stamina regen. JUST STOP.
• I don't know how I feel about my magical cat gaining crit damage instead of crit chance. I mean, either way she's getting something she didn't have before as magical Khajiit. I suppose I'm indifferent to this change.
• I didn't mind reduced block/bash cost on Imperial, but the universal cost reduction will be more useful overall. This is probably a good change.

Gnortranermara

Starlock wrote: »

Current thoughts from an console player:

• I'm really distraught that the nonsensical change to Altmer in 4.3.2. has not been reverted in 4.3.3. My lightning mage does not need stamina regeneration and he will be loosing a lot of magicka regen. That is not okay. Stop it. I liked the original presentation of the race changes because they mostly preserved the original flavor without taking things away. It is not okay to take away magica regen from Altmer and replace it with something useless like stamina regen. JUST STOP.

That's right. This change violates ALL publicly stated company goals (preserving racial gameplay identity, racial balance, and lore). If it goes live the message is clear: their unstated private goal is an unethical, scummy cash grab. I wouldn't be surprised if the people making these decisions get paid a commission on race change token sales. I absolutely refuse to continue supporting this company if they follow through with this senseless nerf to Altmer.

An ethical game company earns its income by creating and selling content, not by retroactively destroying player characters and forcing them to pay to fix them.

anadandy

Wood Elf
Hunter's Eye: Increased the duration to 6 seconds from 4 seconds. This is to make up for the buff applying immediately as you Roll Dodge.

So is the whole issue of Stealth Detection just never going to be addressed officially? Almost without exception that has been the number one concern of Bosmer players - the loss of the core identifying passive of the race in exchange for one that has no utility whatsoever outside of PVP. What other race has a passive, or part of a passive, that has no use in PVE (by the devs own admission)?

lueckgenb16_ESO

danielarvynn1 wrote: »

Altmer:
1. Increase Spell Damage Bonus up to 300
2. Revert Spell Recharge passive from 4.3.2 to 4.3.0, where it will restore whichever is higher. Or better yet, keep the same passive in 4.3.2 but it should be based on Maximum percentage at a given point, instead of the Max Value, i.e. I have 70% Max Magicka and 100% Stamina at the moment, Spell Recharge will restore Magicka; if I have 60% Magicka and 50% Stamina, Spell Recharge will restore stamina. This will be a good balance but I don't think it's game breaking.
3. Since most changes are going with lore, increase Max Magicka Bonus to 2500.

This! Especially the part I highlighted. This would atleast made SOME sense. I still can't believe how anyone of the DEVs could think that the 4.3.2 change makes any sense. Please think aboút it. Its a dumb decision as it is. Don't be stupid pls.

Cundu_Ertur

anadandy wrote: »

Wood Elf
Hunter's Eye: Increased the duration to 6 seconds from 4 seconds. This is to make up for the buff applying immediately as you Roll Dodge.

So is the whole issue of Stealth Detection just never going to be addressed officially? Almost without exception that has been the number one concern of Bosmer players - the loss of the core identifying passive of the race in exchange for one that has no utility whatsoever outside of PVP. What other race has a passive, or part of a passive, that has no use in PVE (by the devs own admission)?

None.
The closest is the 1% bonus to AP for Breton, but since there are plenty of PVE quests in Cyrodiil, even that has applicability in PVE.
Only the Bosmer get something that is completely and utterly without even the most remote possibility of use in PVE.

So the useless thing that no-one has asked for lasts longer.
Yay. I can hardly contain my excitement. <= this is sarcasm.

naga.

Feline Ambush: Reworked the 8% Spell and Weapon Critical Strike Chance to 10% Critical Damage and Critical Healing.

I guess in response to feedback that cats are getting reduced to being average DDs of both varieties due to near complete lack of sustain, you decided to make them average healers without sustain as well. By average I mean that you won't be able to actually pull off the numbers you potential could unless you're in a group with shards, orbs and perfect warhorns.

I'm starting to believe in a conspiracy that ZOS are trying to control the size of the Khajiit population in Elsweyr by providing us with every reason to change the race of every cat toon we have and never roll another one. Just make sure to put up a sign saying 'Welcome to Elsweyr - where all Khajiit are NPCs' wherever the zone starting location will be.

BlueRaven

anadandy wrote: »

Wood Elf
Hunter's Eye: Increased the duration to 6 seconds from 4 seconds. This is to make up for the buff applying immediately as you Roll Dodge.

So is the whole issue of Stealth Detection just never going to be addressed officially? Almost without exception that has been the number one concern of Bosmer players - the loss of the core identifying passive of the race in exchange for one that has no utility whatsoever outside of PVP. What other race has a passive, or part of a passive, that has no use in PVE (by the devs own admission)?

^This.

If you have a mechanism in place as a fix in the future, maybe make the stealth change to bosmers then. Seriously, why is this continually being brushed aside?

The roll is a clunky mechanic and I won't use it, but whatever. Just leave the stealth alone and but whatever you want as the second part of it.

Dalsinthus

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

anadandy wrote: »

Wood Elf
Hunter's Eye: Increased the duration to 6 seconds from 4 seconds. This is to make up for the buff applying immediately as you Roll Dodge.

So is the whole issue of Stealth Detection just never going to be addressed officially? Almost without exception that has been the number one concern of Bosmer players - the loss of the core identifying passive of the race in exchange for one that has no utility whatsoever outside of PVP. What other race has a passive, or part of a passive, that has no use in PVE (by the devs own admission)?

None.
The closest is the 1% bonus to AP for Breton, but since there are plenty of PVE quests in Cyrodiil, even that has applicability in PVE.
Only the Bosmer get something that is completely and utterly without even the most remote possibility of use in PVE.

So the useless thing that no-one has asked for lasts longer.
Yay. I can hardly contain my excitement. <= this is sarcasm.

At this point, I am pretty convinced that they are not going to address it and that this is going live. They have not honestly acknowledged the player feedback on this and there is not much time left to make changes.

Bosmer players gave very clear and vocal feedback that the reduced stealth radius passive was a big reason that we liked the race, but ZOS isn't listening. ZOS has a vision for the race's identity and they are sticking to it. As a result we are getting things that no one asked for: stealth detection and a pen buff after dodge roll. I haven't seen any posts of people that like these two aspects of the race. Even with the duration buff on the penetration, I still hate it.

So do you like 2000 stam, 258 recovery, poison resist, and a short speed boost on dodge roll? Do you think this stacks up well against redguard, khajit, or the new meta race of orcs? Because those are our choices.

As much as I hate to do it, I'll be changing my stamblade to a khajit next patch. They get stealth, damage on crits (just like the old stealth bonus damage), and buffs to all resources and recovery. I can use all of that in my build, esp. in pvp, whereas some of these bosmer passives would sit on the shelf unused.

My bosmer has been my main since launch. I've even built houses for him based on being a bosmer. But ZOS is taking away what I like about the race, so I'll move on and adapt (and resent ZOS for it).

Custos91

On bosmer can't we have maybe another type of passive entirely?
I mean there are options!

Green pact passive
Spinner passive
Wild hunt passive
Founders of the first era
Falinesti themed passive
Some passive themed around the silvenar and the green lady?
Anything?

Pen only helps damage, it doesn't help healing or tanking, it won't be noticeable 99% of the time you play that char.
and anybody will know to hold block as soon as he sees a bosmer dodgerolling...

DisgracefulMind

Can we just give Bosmer the 1500 pen as a passive and not tie it to roll dodging? lol

silvereyes

Custos91 wrote: »

On bosmer can't we have maybe another type of passive entirely?
I mean there are options!

Green pact passive
Spinner passive
Wild hunt passive
Founders of the first era
Falinesti themed passive
Some passive themed around the silvenar and the green lady?
Anything?

Agreed. Even with the increased duration, it's still a Way of the Air passive, which nobody wants.

phantasmalD

No change to argonians and altmers. Can't say I'm surprised but still kinda disappointed.

I just really hoped argos get something more exciting and more useful than 6% healing done, even if it means the potion passive gets nerfed. And for the altmers, well, the spellcharge change was just a dumb tweak from a lore standpoint imo.

technohic

This Khajiit crit thing needs to be reverted. We are going to have more cloak into snipe spammers incoming and no word on whether that health sync is going to be fixed.

Loralai_907

I'm thinking about shelving my Bosmers. One will either get race changed or played as is out of straight stubbornness. And that is only because I am in no mood to start over on my long trek for Legate Black.

Minno

Cinbri wrote: »

So Imperials now have Alteration set bonus effect. That is indeed far more versatile than just block cost glyph effect.

agreed. Imperial retained their "brawler" identity with this addition:
- huge health/stam stat pools
- versatile offstat+main stat regen
- cost reduction on ultimates+mag/stam costs
- block/bash cost basically got nerfed but included SO much more (break free, dodge roll, ultimates, mag+stam)

VERY attractive for builds looking to offset ALOT of negatives in pvp.

JobooAGS

technohic wrote: »

This Khajiit crit thing needs to be reverted. We are going to have more cloak into snipe spammers incoming and no word on whether that health sync is going to be fixed.

Snipe is getting looked at for fixing in terms of the desyncs

Finedaible

Regarding patch 4.3.3:

"Feline Ambush: Reworked the 8% Spell and Weapon Critical Strike Chance to 10% Critical Damage and Critical Healing."
I do not like this change to Khajiit at all. Khajiit were the only ones who could get semi-reliable crit setups, and are now subject to more RNG shenanigans for their DPS and healing with this change. More crit dmg and healing is nice, but it's very volatile, and not as reliable as the buff to crit chance was. This change also further shoehorns Khajiit into two classes, Nightblade and Templar, which is not a healthy thing for diversity. Just give Khajiit the passives from patch 4.3.2, but take their health recovery away, and buff stam/magicka recovery and leave it at that.

"Hunter's Eye: Increased the duration to 6 seconds from 4 seconds. This is to make up for the buff applying immediately as you Roll Dodge."
Seriously, no rework of the underwhelming Bosmer roll-dodge passive? Literally all players are telling you guys it's utterly trash.

Just stop making random-ass changes and stick to player opinions. It feels like staff is throwing darts at a spinning wheel while blind-folded at this point. Is flippin' Sheogorath calling the shots behind the scenes?

I can't endure this insanity for much longer.

Silver_Strider

So Argonian is just worthless for everything now? *Sigh*

technohic

JobooAGS wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

This Khajiit crit thing needs to be reverted. We are going to have more cloak into snipe spammers incoming and no word on whether that health sync is going to be fixed.

Snipe is getting looked at for fixing in terms of the desyncs

Looked at does not mean fixed, and that issue is just on top of the issue of high damage skill from cloak with auto crit at a range beyond any cloak counter except another NB mark.

CurvedSwords123

How many more patch passes before they bring this BS live? Anyone know?

Alaya

Wow, way to listen to your players, ZOS, way to go. Really appreciate you reading through and talking with your design teams about suggestions that ACTUAL players give over anything else. Oh wait, I forgot, this is a cash grab and this is Zo$. /s

The way I'm seeing it, these changes are going to go live and they're just going to get worse and worse for some of these beloved races.

Way to kill my favorite race in my favorite game Zo$.

I'll voice my concerns but they won't get READ.

Khajiit and Redguard are already the strongest stamina PvErs around and you just make them stronger, we get it, you like cats and the Yokudans. And then you make Bosmer the most useless of races (again) with your changes. What we see here isn't balance, what we see here is pigeonholing.

Again, I'm not a PvPer, I've always been on the PvE side of things, I don't care if I'm not BiS, that's not my goal, my goal of playing this game is to entertain myself and enjoy it and watch others who enjoy it as much as I do. Bosmer passives do not make much sense at all as they are. I've been playing this game for FOUR years and now you're telling me I need to grab a set if I want to be stealthy while stealing now on my favorite race because I don't want to play a cat, I didn't roll a cat for it, I rolled a nimble little cheeky wood elf. And then you give us this dodge roll bull that no one asked for, and can practically be achieved with the most useless set in the game.

Give us the 3m stealthy bonus back, change the immunity to snares to wood elves (or give us back our disease resistance), and change that roll dodge thing to maybe give us critical abilities instead of penetration.