Damage Shields really need to be reworked

Enslaved

Just add fatigue the same way streak has if someone recast same type of shield within 4-5 sec.

Strider__Roshin

pieratsos wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

This is in combat and mechanics section because damage shields are OP in every aspect of this game. It's the reason why magicka has insane survivability in comparison to stamina in PvE, and the fact that magSorcs can add 20k+ effective health in 2 seconds by alternating between hardened ward and harness magicka while in PvP is way too strong.

I do not have the solution, but I can offer a few ideas:

1) Make them critable, but have them affected by the users mitigation.

2) Have them affected by defile.

3) Increase the cost of a following damage shield by 33% if applied again within 5 seconds.

I would not suggest doing both suggestion 1 and 2 because that would render damage shields useless. Combining either 1 or 2 with 3 would be fine though.

Yes, I'm expecting to be zerged by QQing magsorcs for stating the obvious, but this is long overdue and we will see posts like this throughout the entire lifetime of ESO until something is done about it.

1. You will make shields completely broken. You are basically giving them a 20%+ dmg mitigation. Slap some impen to negate most of the crits and now you are looking at unkillable 50k hp sorcs with 15k burst "heals".
2. Major defile with befoul will render shields completely useless. You are not just nerfing sorcs but basically every light armor build in the game.
3. Same as 2. Just even worse. Shields don't last more than a couple of seconds in actual combat.

Stacking is the issue. Not individual shields. Address that or implement some smart mechanic that makes shields weaker in 1v1 and stronger in 1vx.

Thanks for the response. Like I said I don't know the solution, but I was just throwing some ideas out there. Preventing shield stacking would be a solid approach.

Derra

Daus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

This is in combat and mechanics section because damage shields are OP in every aspect of this game. It's the reason why magicka has insane survivability in comparison to stamina in PvE, and the fact that magSorcs can add 20k+ effective health in 2 seconds by alternating between hardened ward and harness magicka while in PvP is way too strong.

I do not have the solution, but I can offer a few ideas:

1) Make them critable, but have them affected by the users mitigation.

2) Have them affected by defile.

3) Increase the cost of a following damage shield by 33% if applied again within 5 seconds.

I would not suggest doing both suggestion 1 and 2 because that would render damage shields useless. Combining either 1 or 2 with 3 would be fine though.

Yes, I'm expecting to be zerged by QQing magsorcs for stating the obvious, but this is long overdue and we will see posts like this throughout the entire lifetime of ESO until something is done about it.

Try playing with one instead of two shields on a build without necropotence or intentionally stacking max magica.

After you´ve educated yourself on the matter this way come up with reasonable ways to adress shields:

Make hardened + harness not stack.
Improve sorc incombat sustain when harness it out of the equation.
Make undeath not work on shields but only on HP.
Remove shieldbreaker.

Think of a way to let a single shield scale with number of attackers - because as it currently stands shields are only op in 1v1. As soon as you have two competent players attacking you shields go from best to worst defense in the game.

But honestly - even 1v1 you should be able to kill shieldstackers nowadays.

Unfortunately the same attribute that increases the potency of damage shields is the same attribute that increases the scaling of undodgeable abilities such as haunting curse, meteor, soul assault, and Rune cage.

You know what? The same attributes that makes any attack hit harder also makes heals heal more.
Talk about strawman arguments.

Strider__Roshin

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

This is in combat and mechanics section because damage shields are OP in every aspect of this game. It's the reason why magicka has insane survivability in comparison to stamina in PvE, and the fact that magSorcs can add 20k+ effective health in 2 seconds by alternating between hardened ward and harness magicka while in PvP is way too strong.

I do not have the solution, but I can offer a few ideas:

1) Make them critable, but have them affected by the users mitigation.

2) Have them affected by defile.

3) Increase the cost of a following damage shield by 33% if applied again within 5 seconds.

I would not suggest doing both suggestion 1 and 2 because that would render damage shields useless. Combining either 1 or 2 with 3 would be fine though.

Yes, I'm expecting to be zerged by QQing magsorcs for stating the obvious, but this is long overdue and we will see posts like this throughout the entire lifetime of ESO until something is done about it.

Try playing with one instead of two shields on a build without necropotence or intentionally stacking max magica.

After you´ve educated yourself on the matter this way come up with reasonable ways to adress shields:

Make hardened + harness not stack.
Improve sorc incombat sustain when harness it out of the equation.
Make undeath not work on shields but only on HP.
Remove shieldbreaker.

Think of a way to let a single shield scale with number of attackers - because as it currently stands shields are only op in 1v1. As soon as you have two competent players attacking you shields go from best to worst defense in the game.

But honestly - even 1v1 you should be able to kill shieldstackers nowadays.

Unfortunately the same attribute that increases the potency of damage shields is the same attribute that increases the scaling of undodgeable abilities such as haunting curse, meteor, soul assault, and Rune cage.

You know what? The same attributes that makes any attack hit harder also makes heals heal more.
Talk about strawman arguments.

Heals get weaker with defile, shields do not.

Derra

Daus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

This is in combat and mechanics section because damage shields are OP in every aspect of this game. It's the reason why magicka has insane survivability in comparison to stamina in PvE, and the fact that magSorcs can add 20k+ effective health in 2 seconds by alternating between hardened ward and harness magicka while in PvP is way too strong.

I do not have the solution, but I can offer a few ideas:

1) Make them critable, but have them affected by the users mitigation.

2) Have them affected by defile.

3) Increase the cost of a following damage shield by 33% if applied again within 5 seconds.

I would not suggest doing both suggestion 1 and 2 because that would render damage shields useless. Combining either 1 or 2 with 3 would be fine though.

Yes, I'm expecting to be zerged by QQing magsorcs for stating the obvious, but this is long overdue and we will see posts like this throughout the entire lifetime of ESO until something is done about it.

Try playing with one instead of two shields on a build without necropotence or intentionally stacking max magica.

After you´ve educated yourself on the matter this way come up with reasonable ways to adress shields:

Make hardened + harness not stack.
Improve sorc incombat sustain when harness it out of the equation.
Make undeath not work on shields but only on HP.
Remove shieldbreaker.

Think of a way to let a single shield scale with number of attackers - because as it currently stands shields are only op in 1v1. As soon as you have two competent players attacking you shields go from best to worst defense in the game.

But honestly - even 1v1 you should be able to kill shieldstackers nowadays.

Unfortunately the same attribute that increases the potency of damage shields is the same attribute that increases the scaling of undodgeable abilities such as haunting curse, meteor, soul assault, and Rune cage.

You know what? The same attributes that makes any attack hit harder also makes heals heal more.
Talk about strawman arguments.

Heals get weaker with defile, shields do not.

Heals scale with bock - shields do not.
Heals have multiple buffs increasing their potency - shields do not.

Defile CP are arguably way more broken than shieldstacking ever was - so i´m not sure i´d use something that´s broken as a point of reference?

Derra

Look i´m not even disagreing with you.

1v1 3 shield vamp sorc is pretty damn close to broken as it gets (if you don´t utilize firedmg/prismatic).
However flatout nerfing shields would only accomplish one thing - that would be more people running 3 shield vamp builds because blanket nerfs always affect the non extreme builds more than the extreme ones.

I´ve played with only one shield without vamp and it´s not op. Not even close.

The way you´re arguing just proves to me that you´re talking about something you have no firsthand experience with and that´s a situation you shouldn´t put yourself into because it makes you look like a fool.

idk

@Daus

Two years ago, maybe more recent, shields went from lasting for eternity to a mere 6 seconds. Zos wanted it to be tactical to use a shield a essentially a choice to be defensive vs offensive.

Basically if a sorc is running two damage shields consistently they are reducing their damage 1/3 just to keep them refreshed. Add something to provide a heal and it is cut even further.

PvP is more than just sheer damage. Tactics should be a big part of things and calling for a nerf is not really a PvP tactic.

In other words, shield stacking sorcs do actually get killed in PvP because they are killable.

PS. I think anytime someone asks for a nerf in the forums they should be required to state the class they play mostly, or at least the class they are challenged with whatever skill or class is being called out.

Apherius

Nerf shields .. Nerf overload ... Nerf rune cage ..

Make your bet guys, what next ? Nerf Surge ? Nerf curse ?

Bergzorn

Shields need a rework? I agree. But it needs to be a clever one, which deals with shield stacking and does not gimp single shield users further. Significant changes would require a rework of the defensive tools available to magsorcs.

A cost increase for spamming shields? Ivory-tower.

Defile affecting shields? Consolidates over-tuned defiles and forces shield stacking.

Gut shield stacking for all I care. But approaching this with general nerfs to damage shields with no compensation in the healing department will just increase the need to shield stack even more.

Beardimus

I wonder sometimes if people have downloaded an old patch with an update. Summerset has just come out and your complaint is about wards. Of all things going and that's your concern.

If it was 2015 I'd get ya, even 2016. But right now its kinda just funny.

I'm open to changing stacking for sure, if you give us other ways to mitigate damage. And that means buffing skills..

- make boundless truly boundless, remove snares / cc / purge
- remove streak bug at end of travel. Increase distance. Remove snares / roots
- Bound Aegis needs way better protection levels

Etc etc. Hell give us a better class heal and we can drop healing ward. Bar space is the big issue for Sorcs, so using 3 to ward stack for active defence has huge downsides. Over say....holding block..

It's a much bigger debate than OMG NERF SORC

Apherius

Daus wrote: »

Rune cage needs to be dodgeable and blockable. Keep the one that's applied on self as undodgeable/unblockable.

Mages wrath needs to be changed entirely. Buff the damage to make stronger in pve, but get rid of the 4 second timer. This ult makes magSorcs broken OP in battlegrounds.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5210402#Comment_5210402

Daus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Now you've wandered off into the weeds even more than usual...

LOL, Haunting Curse does NOT hit harder than Incap, and it does NOT go off every 2 seconds!

Average Haunting Curse damage on my death recap is around 6.5k (no-cp). Average Incap is around 5k. And yes, the 2 second bit was an exaggeration.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5215351#Comment_5215351

Daus wrote: »

Their execute gives them an unfair advantage in BGs (they can steal kills from the opposing team with little effort), their damage shields give them better survivability than heavy armor, Rune cage gives magSorcs free kills with no counterplay, Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418615/why-so-much-hate-for-mag-sorcs/p1

Daus wrote: »

Lol yeah they are. Did you see Alcast's latest BG video? He even says he's not even good with a magsorc and he's wrecking faces.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5193884#Comment_5193884

Look like you really hate sorc.

MLGProPlayer

Daus wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

You don’t make medium armour more fun by making everything else less fun.

You don't think there will be any issues with making medium armor as tanky as damage shields? I don't disagree that medium needs a buff, but at what point do we say that something is too strong, I think damage shields are more of an issue in pve honestly.

Damage shields are a necessity in PvE. Magicka would die constantly without them since they can't dodge or block to avoid damage.

Kadoin

OP should be careful what he wishes for. If shields became useless, then mag chars would just build for complete glass cannons and/or start stacking stam to roll and block instead (I find this better on sorc than shield stacking, but hey...what do I know?).

If you think mag sorc is bad, wait until you fight some hybrids that use damage shield and have enough stam to block + roll, super high healing, and super high damage. ZOS opened pandora's box, I'm surprised I haven't seen Cyrodil full of hybrids yet. NB and Sorc make the most OP ones...

Juhasow

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Just scale shields off spell damage. That way you either have a ton of magicka with smaller shields or less max magicka but stronger shields.

Don't throw me in the briar patch, Br'er Fox!

Haha, your plan has a flaw! Seriously, imagine all the Mag Sorcs switching to Stam so they can run Pelinal's and dominate PvP for months.

Doubt it. Easy fix though, add spell crit/pen to the calculation. Now pelinals wont work the way you propose. You'd be better off min/max'ing a 7light build for high spell damage.

Pelinal is the smallest of the issues. Problem is that shields scaling from spell dmg is a buff for shieldstackers , especially magsorcs. Magsorcs dont run high magicka builds to sustain or for damage they're running high magicka builds because their defense is dependant on it. When power creep was lower magsorcs were running with builds having like 35-38k magicka and they were doing fine. The thing with scaling Shields purely from spell dmg is that damaging/healing abilities are scaled stronger from spell damage with 1:10,5 ratio with mines having 1:20 ratio which means 1 point of spell damage increases ability tooltip same like 10,5 or 20 points of max magicka.

Bonus in sets for spell damage is 129 when to magicka 1096 when 129 spell dmg=1355 max magicka in formula for most abilities not mentioning we have sets like julianos , burning spellwave , SPC , Scathing Mage etc plus spell damage enchantments to jewery and weapons. There are also easily accesible percentage bonuses to spell damage like major sorcery , sorc passive Expert Mage , alliance war passive Continuous Attack etc.

Right now base shield value lets say for Hardened Ward is equal to ~37% of max magicka. It wouldnt be an issue to create builds that would have like 35k magicka but 5k spell dmg when fully buffed. If we would just start to scale Shields similarly that would mean Hardened Ward would get stronger especially in non CP enviroment where it's easier to keep high spell dmg then high max magicka. That would also mean that sorc damage would go up with mines beeing basicly instant kill if someone would step on 2 of them. In duelas sorcs would just go for Siroria and stand whole fight in their mines. Even if scaling for shields from spell damage would be lowered comparing to current state of scaling from max magicka sorcs would still be investing into spell damage because they would have no other choice so at the end they would still end up with much higher damage then currently plus at worst with similar shields values.

Ragnarock41

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I agree with the headline... the post, not so much.

Damage shields need to be BUFFED

lol

Ragnaroek93

To be fair, all defenses are garbage when outnumbered: Shieldstackers just can't outshield all the damage, dodgerollers can avoid the damage but not sustain their defense, blockhealers just get defiled + zerged and Cloak and mistform get rekt by a lovely meta set.

Biro123

Juhasow wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Just scale shields off spell damage. That way you either have a ton of magicka with smaller shields or less max magicka but stronger shields.

Don't throw me in the briar patch, Br'er Fox!

Haha, your plan has a flaw! Seriously, imagine all the Mag Sorcs switching to Stam so they can run Pelinal's and dominate PvP for months.

Doubt it. Easy fix though, add spell crit/pen to the calculation. Now pelinals wont work the way you propose. You'd be better off min/max'ing a 7light build for high spell damage.

Pelinal is the smallest of the issues. Problem is that shields scaling from spell dmg is a buff for shieldstackers , especially magsorcs. Magsorcs dont run high magicka builds to sustain or for damage they're running high magicka builds because their defense is dependant on it. When power creep was lower magsorcs were running with builds having like 35-38k magicka and they were doing fine. The thing with scaling Shields purely from spell dmg is that damaging/healing abilities are scaled stronger from spell damage with 1:10,5 ratio with mines having 1:20 ratio which means 1 point of spell damage increases ability tooltip same like 10,5 or 20 points of max magicka.

Bonus in sets for spell damage is 129 when to magicka 1096 when 129 spell dmg=1355 max magicka in formula for most abilities not mentioning we have sets like julianos , burning spellwave , SPC , Scathing Mage etc plus spell damage enchantments to jewery and weapons. There are also easily accesible percentage bonuses to spell damage like major sorcery , sorc passive Expert Mage , alliance war passive Continuous Attack etc.

Right now base shield value lets say for Hardened Ward is equal to ~37% of max magicka. It wouldnt be an issue to create builds that would have like 35k magicka but 5k spell dmg when fully buffed. If we would just start to scale Shields similarly that would mean Hardened Ward would get stronger especially in non CP enviroment where it's easier to keep high spell dmg then high max magicka. That would also mean that sorc damage would go up with mines beeing basicly instant kill if someone would step on 2 of them. In duelas sorcs would just go for Siroria and stand whole fight in their mines. Even if scaling for shields from spell damage would be lowered comparing to current state of scaling from max magicka sorcs would still be investing into spell damage because they would have no other choice so at the end they would still end up with much higher damage then currently plus at worst with similar shields values.

This is exactly what was thinking.. One of the reasons that sorc damage has been lacking in PVP is that sorcs stack max mag over spell-damage just to allow them to defend. This results in lower damage than if they stacked spell-damage instead.

Some other random (but relevant) thoughts of mine...


Minor/Major shields?..
I think minor should be stackable, but not major. Minor would probably want to include small group shields, shield weapon enchants, shield procs from sets, psijic blocking shield... etc.
Major would probably want to be those that are self only and scale from a stat.
Not sure if healing ward should be major or minor...

My current view on shield strength..
I think they are weaker than last patch. This comes from the pov. of someone who doesn't run meta builds, but has often ran max mag setups - sacrificing monster sets for 2 max mag bonuses, using DW for more max mag bonuses, sacrificing skill slots for max mag buffs.
In this respect, I did not benefit stat-wise from weapons counting as 2 set pieces. However those hitting the shields have benefitted.

I found that (my already high mag) hardened could be torn down in one cd by a single player, repeatedly. Stacking does nothing when the first shield is taken down as fast as yo can cast it - so you keep casting the biggest shield you have instead.
2 similar players = almost instant death on my existing builds.
I also found more oblivion damage changing what I needed to run, leaving a dilemma. Do I weaken my shields and get a lot more dodging and slot more healing? Or do I try to make them stronger and find healing from somewhere..
The point is, that a 50k magicka build with 20% in bastion was no longer enough.
Another thing needed for sorc builds is the ability to survive and cast your 4-second burst with proper timing (ie without interruptions to re-shield). Without this, you cannot pressure your opponent (unless going for the proc-meta). And since I don't like the roly/kitey playstyle much, I went for trying to make my shields even bigger.
I now have a build with 58k magica, giving a 15k hardened ward. This is now enough. But it has only 10k stam and nothing to help recov. It also has 16k health in Cyro, and 0 impen. It also cannot sustain a stam opponent (but at least it lasts longer than 1cd). My skill-bars contain 7 abilities dedicated for defence. 2 shields, rapid regen, resto ult, BoL, inner light and aegis.

The point is, should a build primarily focused on defence not be able to survive? Every single stat is based on upping shield strength. 7 out of 12 abilities on my bar are there for defensive use. And barring the odd streak, I am NOT mobile. No dodging, no sprinting, no major expedition or snare removal. But people complain about me being hard to kill. Should I not be hard to kill when built to be hard to kill.? (and no, I can not get a 30k shield stack) And yes, still get wrecked by multiple semi-competent opponents - only cannot escape from them anymore!

Medium armour?
Is currently NOT a reason to ask for shield nerfs. Med is weak at the moment, especially with sloads stopping the cloaks that let you reset the dodge fatigue, and stuff like cage.. That said, I was beaten 1v1 by a med stamblade recently. he had enough health/resists so that I couldn't burst him with cage/meteor, and couldn't hit after to give any sustained pressure while he healed up. Despite inner-light spam,(I don't run sloads) he cloaked well and kept me in a state of shield-spamming, wasting resources waiting for him to attack... Eventually I was oom (did I say I couldn't sustain a stam opponent?) - and he won.

I tried rebuilding my stamsorc to a ranged kiter bow user - with the idea of high mobility and the psijic spammable for bow. Medium armour, lots of dodging and speed buffs.. Cage killed it every time. Couldn't figure out a tanky enough setup that still gave the mobility and damage needed to get the idea to work.. Maybe would have been good a few patches ago before cage - but then we wouldn't have had psijic....
In comparison, my stamplar is doing fine in heavy (as is my stamblade). So yeah, I do think medium is weak. But it is not the fault of shields.

Overall, I'd like to see some kind of way that shield work so that it is useful to use other defences under them.. maybe make the shield bigger/last longer but allow the critical damage part of the damage to still hit the wearer? So sorcs will need to have more health/heals to compensate. Blocking will still help, as will resists. But make it sustainable in heavy, Perhaps have minor shield only affecting the crit damage? They would be weak enough to not fully stop it, but still keep light armour useable? idk.. I'd like it to scale better vs multiple opponent somehow without being too strong in 1v1.

Bergzorn

Biro123 wrote: »

I now have a build with 58k magica, giving a 15k hardened ward. This is now enough. But it has only 10k stam and nothing to help recov. It also has 16k health in Cyro, and 0 impen. It also cannot sustain a stam opponent (but at least it lasts longer than 1cd). My skill-bars contain 7 abilities dedicated for defence. 2 shields, rapid regen, resto ult, BoL, inner light and aegis.

The point is, should a build primarily focused on defence not be able to survive? Every single stat is based on upping shield strength. 7 out of 12 abilities on my bar are there for defensive use. And barring the odd streak, I am NOT mobile. No dodging, no sprinting, no major expedition or snare removal. But people complain about me being hard to kill. Should I not be hard to kill when built to be hard to kill.? (and no, I can not get a 30k shield stack) And yes, still get wrecked by multiple semi-competent opponents - only cannot escape from them anymore!

As a casual player, I'm willingly sacrificing efficiency for fun. I'm currently playing my open world no-CP magsorc with 26k max magica and switched from full impen to full well-fitted, so I can roll like a stamblade. All the rolling combined with my 6.2k hardened ward and resto ult makes me feel durable, but I can't kill anything on my own.

I'm now good at two things: running away from 1v1 encounters and zergsurfing. That was not my intention, but every attempt to build a bit more small-scale competitive results in me getting bored. I fear that another ward nerf transforms me into a stamsorc with a stick.

A rework of the shield mechanic would be very welcome.

Juhasow

Apherius wrote: »

Nerf shields .. Nerf overload ... Nerf rune cage ..

Make your bet guys, what next ? Nerf Surge ? Nerf curse ?

Nerf threads maked by nightblade players.

cpuScientist

Minalan wrote: »

What I’d like to see:

1. Nerf shield stacking. Harness and hardened won’t activate if one or the other is up. Healing ward still works. Call it a major/minor system or whatever.

2. Turn bound armor into what it’s supposed to be. You summon a set of Daedric armor with the activated effect. It counts the same as heavy armor for mitigation, and it lasts at least six to eight seconds. The 8% Max Magicka slotted effect remains.

3. Rune cage should be a DOT, so that every DOT crit will activate power surge heals.

So instead of two shields, you get only one, on top of conjured heavy armor, while wearing light. When one shield is broken (in one GCD), you take damage, but it’s mitigated by heavy defense so that you aren’t just one-shot. Surge provides reliable heals without having to hump someone’s leg with boundless storm.

If you want to nerf shield stacking without some kind of backup class burst heal or heavy armor mitigation - you’re being a disingenuous stamtard who just wants to one shot Sorcs. Unfortunately that’s most of the forum posters around here.

1. I would not mind this either way.
2. I would never use that, boundless gives mit for 20 seconds if you are speaking about that buff boundless is better. If you mean some other kind of mit on top that duration is far to short IMO. I think the boundless buff should be on this skill though and let boundless and hurricane do something else. Up hurricane damage a good bit and same for boundless or something. Just because you'd expect bound armor to give actual armor lol. Or let bound armanents be a purge or something.
3. Rune cage was IMO overbuffed as it adds to much to damage to the burst, let it keep the damage but be a dot this would be far better. I whole heartedly agree with this.

Galarthor

Daus wrote: »

That would be horrible because then stam sorcs could utilize damage shields with equal efficiency as magSorcs.

Not necessarily. You could make them a Major and Minor buffs but still have them scale off of max magicka / Spell damage.

But the whole system is not really going to change anything. If sorc shields are a major buff while harness is a minor buff then people still can use both at the same time.

Healing Ward is a different story as it is mostly used as a heal and as such would need to be replaced in such a system or not falling under it in the first place, which in turn means the whole system is pointless again anyway.

As for the critability of shields: I already explained you at length why they are not critable. Not gonna bother here again since you are just rattling your propaganda off again.

As for the idea to have the damage of already applied DoTs not absorbed by shields: this is viable from a purely logical point of view. But I am affraid you didnt think that through. Because that means in return DoTs would not be applied to a target whose shields are active - i.e. the DoTs would drip off of the shields. I am not sure that's really a desirable design.

Shields have been and remain a problem of perception rather than balance.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408800/damages-shields-should-be-critable-change-my-mind/p4
Shield users have the same issue. Fighting against a shielded target seems like they are not taking any damage. But being on the receiving end shows you how much damage you actually take and how often it is really a close call.

If anything shields desperately need a buff to account for the aforementioned power creep.

Merlin13KAGL

Daus wrote: »

This is in combat and mechanics section because damage shields are OP in every aspect of this game. It's the reason why magicka has insane survivability in comparison to stamina in PvE, and the fact that magSorcs can add 20k+ effective health in 2 seconds by alternating between hardened ward and harness magicka while in PvP is way too strong.

I do not have the solution, but I can offer a few ideas:

1) Make them critable, but have them affected by the users mitigation.

2) Have them affected by defile.

3) Increase the cost of a following damage shield by 33% if applied again within 5 seconds.

I would not suggest doing both suggestion 1 and 2 because that would render damage shields useless. Combining either 1 or 2 with 3 would be fine though.

Yes, I'm expecting to be zerged by QQing magsorcs for stating the obvious, but this is long overdue and we will see posts like this throughout the entire lifetime of ESO until something is done about it.

They also do 20k damage when they expire, per your analogy. (Funny how every nerf thread always misses that part)

1. Can't crit shields, shields can't crit. You seriously want shields to get the mitigation benefits of the player? You might want to rethink this one.
2. They are affected by defile. Since shields don't heal themselves, defile has zero net effect.
3. Shields already have a high cost, not to mention you lose 1-2 GCD's. You're cool with your DPS skills suffering the same penalty, right? "The Kena effect for everyone!"

The same arguments still apply as always have. Feel free to search for them in any of 100 nerf sorc threads.

Strider__Roshin

Apherius wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Rune cage needs to be dodgeable and blockable. Keep the one that's applied on self as undodgeable/unblockable.

Mages wrath needs to be changed entirely. Buff the damage to make stronger in pve, but get rid of the 4 second timer. This ult makes magSorcs broken OP in battlegrounds.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5210402#Comment_5210402

Daus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Now you've wandered off into the weeds even more than usual...

LOL, Haunting Curse does NOT hit harder than Incap, and it does NOT go off every 2 seconds!

Average Haunting Curse damage on my death recap is around 6.5k (no-cp). Average Incap is around 5k. And yes, the 2 second bit was an exaggeration.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5215351#Comment_5215351

Daus wrote: »

Their execute gives them an unfair advantage in BGs (they can steal kills from the opposing team with little effort), their damage shields give them better survivability than heavy armor, Rune cage gives magSorcs free kills with no counterplay, Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418615/why-so-much-hate-for-mag-sorcs/p1

Daus wrote: »

Lol yeah they are. Did you see Alcast's latest BG video? He even says he's not even good with a magsorc and he's wrecking faces.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5193884#Comment_5193884

Look like you really hate sorc.

I hate things that are overpowered which is currently sorcs. Unfortunately I do find it fun to play as one. It may surprise you but I actually hate playing stam with the exception of the stamblade, but that's because I think uppercut and flurry are garbage spammables. I may try the other stam classes again with the new crushing weapon spammable though.

Oh and if it makes you feel better a couple years ago it was forumplars that accusing me of being a Templar hater, and was even getting personal messages by them that were very rude because I was calling them out about how OP they are.

Thankfully ZOS nerfed them in every way I suggested with the exception of removing the Shards CC. I thought that was overkill.

DHale

Unless you are the very best of the Sorcs 20 k shields take a couple of hits from a two hander. Sorcs are weak now unless there are multiple. Used to play one.

paulsimonps

CyrusArya wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

I do not have the solution, but I can offer a few ideas:

1) Make them critable, but have them affected by the users mitigation.

2) Have them affected by defile.

3) Increase the cost of a following damage shield by 33% if applied again within 5 seconds.

Nerf damage shields in a sloads meta? Lol.

1.) Shields cannot themselves crit, nor do they offer armor resistance. Therefore they don’t take crtitical damage. Crittable shields with resists would be stronger than what you have now. Don’t underestimate even just ~10k resist...that’s more than double fortifies brass/spriggans/spinners provide in resist/pen.

2.) Shields cannot be buffed by mending or vitality so how does it make sense that they should be reduced by defile, the counter debuff to +healing?

3.) That sounds about as reasonable as making heals stack in cost with each use. That is to say, not at all.

Shields are not what’s OP about sorcs atm. Rune cage however, well that’s another story. Cage is giving too much control in fights currently and that might make sorc defenses seem stronger than they are.

Late to the party but very much so agree with your comment. Making shields have mitigation but allow for them to take critical damage would be a MASSIVE buff to damage shields. OP didn't just say Resistance, he said Mitigation, which means all of this would be included:

• 50% Blocking (All)
• 0-50% Physical Resistance (Physical, Poison, Disease)
• 0-50% Spell Resistance (Magicka, Shock, Fire, Ice)
• 20% One Hand and Shield Passive: Sword and Board (All, while blocking)
• 15% One Hand and Shield Passive: Deflect Bolt (Projectile and Ranged Dmg, while blocking)
• 8% One Hand and Shield Ability: Defensive Posture (All, while blocking)
• 20% Destruction Staff Passive: Ancient Knowledge (All, while blocking with a Frost Staff)
• 10% Draconic Power Passive: Iron Skin (All, while blocking)
• 15% Aedric Spear Passive: Spear Wall (Melee Dmg, while blocking)
• 20% Daedric Summoning Ability: Bound Aegis (All while blocking)
• 8% Armor Set: Footman's Fortune (All, while blocking)
• 8% Armor Set: Ward of Cyrodiil (All, while blocking)

All other sources of mitigation is already applied before damage shields, but the really big ones are mostly after it. Making Damage shields have that extra mitigation would mean it would act as a true temporary Max HP boost that goes away once depleted. But with that extra mitigation and the current strength of some of the damage shields used by people you would see a drastic increase in survivability from everyone using them, especially those who block a lot as well. All of this is not even mentioning critical resistance, which if shields could take critical damage, must also be applied to the shields.

Not a good change, and would be the opposite effect than what is intended with the suggestion.

Maulkin

Daus wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Rune cage needs to be dodgeable and blockable. Keep the one that's applied on self as undodgeable/unblockable.

Mages wrath needs to be changed entirely. Buff the damage to make stronger in pve, but get rid of the 4 second timer. This ult makes magSorcs broken OP in battlegrounds.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5210402#Comment_5210402

Daus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Now you've wandered off into the weeds even more than usual...

LOL, Haunting Curse does NOT hit harder than Incap, and it does NOT go off every 2 seconds!

Average Haunting Curse damage on my death recap is around 6.5k (no-cp). Average Incap is around 5k. And yes, the 2 second bit was an exaggeration.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5215351#Comment_5215351

Daus wrote: »

Their execute gives them an unfair advantage in BGs (they can steal kills from the opposing team with little effort), their damage shields give them better survivability than heavy armor, Rune cage gives magSorcs free kills with no counterplay, Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418615/why-so-much-hate-for-mag-sorcs/p1

Daus wrote: »

Lol yeah they are. Did you see Alcast's latest BG video? He even says he's not even good with a magsorc and he's wrecking faces.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5193884#Comment_5193884

Look like you really hate sorc.

I hate things that are overpowered which is currently sorcs. Unfortunately I do find it fun to play as one. It may surprise you but I actually hate playing stam with the exception of the stamblade, but that's because I think uppercut and flurry are garbage spammables. I may try the other stam classes again with the new crushing weapon spammable though.

Oh and if it makes you feel better a couple years ago it was forumplars that accusing me of being a Templar hater, and was even getting personal messages by them that were very rude because I was calling them out about how OP they are.

Thankfully ZOS nerfed them in every way I suggested with the exception of removing the Shards CC. I thought that was overkill.

The irony is of course, that you didn't show any of that fervour for nerfing overpowered builds when Stamblades were top dog from Morrowind till now.

If anything, if I recall correctly, you were saying they were below medium tier and needed buffs. The lolz.

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

This post is to let you know that we've had to remove a few posts from some unneeded flaming and baiting, both being against the Forum Rules. For further post please be sure to post more constructively and respectfully to prevent action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

Strider__Roshin

I think you've all added some great feedback, and my suggestions were not made to be taken as gospel nor am I confident that they're good ones (as so many of you have pointed out).

The main prevailing thought that seems to resonate is that shield stacking should be eliminated and that applying another shield should replace the other. Then there's the concern about the magSorcs survivability.

Having the strongest shield in the game in my opinion is pretty potent, but a great suggestion that has already been mention in the class rep section is to have ball of lighting remove snares after use. This would significantly increase the magsorc's mobility and therefore survivability.

idk

Apherius wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Rune cage needs to be dodgeable and blockable. Keep the one that's applied on self as undodgeable/unblockable.

Mages wrath needs to be changed entirely. Buff the damage to make stronger in pve, but get rid of the 4 second timer. This ult makes magSorcs broken OP in battlegrounds.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5210402#Comment_5210402

Daus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Now you've wandered off into the weeds even more than usual...

LOL, Haunting Curse does NOT hit harder than Incap, and it does NOT go off every 2 seconds!

Average Haunting Curse damage on my death recap is around 6.5k (no-cp). Average Incap is around 5k. And yes, the 2 second bit was an exaggeration.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5215351#Comment_5215351

Daus wrote: »

Their execute gives them an unfair advantage in BGs (they can steal kills from the opposing team with little effort), their damage shields give them better survivability than heavy armor, Rune cage gives magSorcs free kills with no counterplay, Haunting Curse hits hard than incap but it goes off every 2 seconds, and you can't block or dodge it (you can shield it though which is just another reason why damage shields are OP).

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418615/why-so-much-hate-for-mag-sorcs/p1

Daus wrote: »

Lol yeah they are. Did you see Alcast's latest BG video? He even says he's not even good with a magsorc and he's wrecking faces.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5193884#Comment_5193884

Look like you really hate sorc.

and that he does not have a sorc killing build.

He did several nerf threads yesterday and I think two dealt with sorcs at least partially.

Strider__Roshin

But what about PvE? Does everyone think they're fine there even though it's the main reason why competitive trials will go with magicka over stam even when stam is producing higher dps numbers?