[MATH] PvP Defensive Set Comparison (Impreg, Brass, Pariah, Riposte, + more)
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Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
If your healer is on the front line against a large organized group, then he/she/It is dead...
You don't have to be a healer to wear reposte.
Just bc its a templar doesn't make it a healer.Edited by Brutusmax1mus on December 29, 2017 9:10PM1 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »
Fight me
What is your characters name?Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »@Brutusmax1mus
Ah, but I know what abilities proc it, so I can fight in situations were it will proc when facing an opponents burst (while unloading burst of my own) and destroy them...
I do it all the time when facing stamina builds...
And I absolutely use it in situations that call for skill as a result...
I know precisely how to get maximum benefit from Combat Physician...and when to get it.
The problem is every capable opponent will deal more dmg in a 6s burstwindow than the breakpoint between combat and riposte is.
Also if you´re arguing from a healers pov - i want my healers to wear sanctuary or spc. Combat physician is incredibly bad for anything that is not a 1v1 situation.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
The problem is every capable opponent will deal more dmg in a 6s burstwindow than the breakpoint between combat and riposte is.
Also if you´re arguing from a healers pov - i want my healers to wear sanctuary or spc. Combat physician is incredibly bad for anything that is not a 1v1 situation.
I'm not sure about that...
The breaking point between the two is 41k+ damage in a 6 sec window and as I pointed out earlier in the thread, most characters have around 20-25k health...
Unless you are on the defensive, that much damage in a 6 sec window will be lethal before 41k damage is reached, thus (by in large) that 41k number is unrealistic...
In addition, Combat Physician beats Riposte in more than 1v1 situations as I stated earlier in the thread; it beats it as pertains to negating damage from Seige Weapons (which Riposte wont do), it beats it as pertains negating damage from NPC's (which Riposte wont do as well), and it beats it from the standpoint that the Combat Physician Damage Shield can be given to allies without ever once putting yourself in harms way (which is not an option with Riposte; you MUST put your character in harms way for your allies to benefit from it)...
With Combat Physician, I can give out my 5th piece benefit even while being purely on the offensive via Purifying Light; Riposte cant do that...
But anyway, I've said enough as pertains to Combat Physician and will exit this thread now as there is nothing more to say...
You guys dont believe in the gear set; I do...
Lets leave it at that...
Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on December 29, 2017 10:17PMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Thanks for the great info m8!
I'm playing as a heavy armor MagDk and I almost always apply minor maim to my opponents, so the Wizard Ripstoe is not something I'm going to use, so whats better for CP PVP for me, is it mark of the Pariah or Impregnable?
Is impregnable only really good against high crit nightblades but useless against all other builds?
or is the mark of the Pariah set the best option because of its overall damage mitigation?
Thanks for the great write up helping us ESO n00bs understand how this stuff works
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Taylor_MB✭✭✭✭✭
✭@xSylvanasWindrunner
It depends on a lot of variables (in your own build and your opponents (which is why I encourage you to play around with the spreadsheet yourself)) but Impregnable outperforms other damage sets when your opponents have above ~55% critical chance. So even though a lot of players in Cyrodiil won't have Critical Chance this high, the players you are dying to probably will.
Will it outperform Pariah? It terms of maximum mitigation value, no it won't, but you have to figure out if your build can handle being at less then ~68% HP to start mitigating more damage then Impregnable would be at 100% health. I'd only recommend Pariah to builds with absolute minimum of 30k HP, this is because you need to be able to survive in execute range to actually take advantage of this set.
Hope that helps!PvP Defensive Set Comparison
Firestarter MagDK 1vX - build and gamplay!
LagPlar Ranged Lag Proof(ish) Magplar - build and gamplay!
ShadowGaurd MagBlade Group Utility Tank - build and gamplay!
Oncoming Storm No-CP 11.6k Ward MagSorc - build and gamplay!
My YouTube Chanel4 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So even though a lot of players in Cyrodiil won't have Critical Chance this high, the players you are dying to probably will.
Such good advice, the whole reply was, but this is particularly true.
You don't build to counter everything, you build to counter what is important for your build to counter4 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
I do more than 20k passive healing in 6 seconds, without casting ANY defensive skills, which means as long as I have a 21k health pool I’m 100% ok to stay offensive through this “lethal” onslaught
Is this on your OP Warden?Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on December 30, 2017 6:12AMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
Is this on your OP Warden?
Also on mageblade, magplar, stam sorc, stamplar, and ANY build with troll king1 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
Also on mageblade, magplar, stam sorc, stamplar, and ANY build with troll king
Ah so you are accounting for the procing the heal once your health is in execute range; ergo, you are defending yourself once the damage has become too great...
Thanks for confirming what I have been saying all along; if you aren't on the defensive (and healing oneself is a defensive maneuver) then that 41k damage in 6 seconds will be lethal...especially with your 21k Health.
Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on December 30, 2017 8:04AMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
I do more than 20k passive healing in 6 seconds, without casting ANY defensive skills, which means as long as I have a 21k health pool I’m 100% ok to stay offensive through this “lethal” onslaught
Fool...
Healing IS a defensive skill...
Wow...
Atleast have an idea of what you are talking about before opening your mouth...
Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on December 30, 2017 8:06AMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Ok...
I believe I've shut every argument against me and the Combat Physician gear set down at this point...
So now I'll exit (unless certain people start to spew more sewage from their pie holes of course)... Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on December 30, 2017 8:08AMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Exodium✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Ok...
I believe I've shut every argument against me and the Combat Physician gear set down at this point...
So now I'll exit (unless certain people start to spew more sewage from their pie holes of course)...
Okay you stick to combat physician. Watch how many coordinated pvp groups you'll impress when you tell them you'll bring an 8k random shield to the party.
Meanwhile let us all stick to keeping our group alive while awarding EVERYONE affected by HoT 1.2k crit resistance (transmutation) and 15% dmg mitigation (riposte).4 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
Fool...
Healing IS a defensive skill...
Wow...
Atleast have an idea of what you are talking about before opening your mouth...
You absolute moron, magblade has both strife and path which are offensive skills but passively heal you. Those are almost never used when you want to heal, you have to use them in order to dps the person down.2 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
Ah so you are accounting for the procing the heal once your health is in execute range; ergo, you are defending yourself once the damage has become too great...
Thanks for confirming what I have been saying all along; if you aren't on the defensive (and healing oneself is a defensive maneuver) then that 41k damage in 6 seconds will be lethal...especially with your 21k Health.
Are you trolling or do you have no idea how magblade works? As long as you have one heal up, be that your MAIN SPAMMABLE DPS or your other AOE DPS then troll king procs while you are on the offensive. This guy can't be for real, his absolute ignorance about the magblade class is amazing.
Someone please duel this guy with riposte as a backbar set and expose him after please; I wish I had an account on console (or bads like you on PC EU). Wow.3 -
raasdal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hey @Taylor_MB
Big love for all this math. You are awesome! Getting some spotlight for my all time favorite set, Pariah, is just extra.
But have you considered developing a system to compare with other defensive sets, that does not provide pure mitigation? Sets like Beekeeper, Green Pact erc. (you can tell im a HP regen freak right?)PC - EU
Gromag Gro-Molag - Sorcerer - EP
Dexion Velus - Dragonknight - AD
Chalaux Erissa - Nightblade - AD
Firiel Erissa - Templar - AD1 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
You absolute moron, magblade has both strife and path which are offensive skills but passively heal you. Those are almost never used when you want to heal, you have to use them in order to dps the person down.
Indeed both Magblades and stamsorcs are known for the fact that they can heal a lot will still going on the offensive. Its the same reason why they are usually recommended for clearing vMSA your first time, that and mag sorcs of course. I mean even DKs technically have an offensive heal with their stone fist morph. Mag Nbs also have a AoE Offensive heal in Sap essence though its mainly used by bomblades and not usually in a zerg surfers set up, still a really good skill all be it a bit costly to spam.
So that is 3 offensive Heals, 2 being AoE in both damage and healing. Yea NBs do not have to drop offense to do defense until they get really really pushed, and even then put a small HoT on like rapid regen before you engage and you will most likely be good to go for quite a while.2 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭A few more interesting defensive sets:
Meridia’s Blessed Armor should still be the best defensive armor if the number of enemy players is small(<4).
Meritorious Service(3k res for 2min) is also not bad if you consider it buffes the whole grp, one-bar-able, long time buff and can be used before a fight.
Sadly Gossamer(can proc 15% dodge-chance for grp) is really bad in practice but still an interesting set.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus0 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A few more interesting defensive sets:
Meridia’s Blessed Armor should still be the best defensive armor if the number of enemy players is small(<4).
Meritorious Service(3k res for 2min) is also not bad if you consider it buffes the whole grp, one-bar-able, long time buff and can be used before a fight.
Sadly Gossamer(can proc 15% dodge-chance for grp) is really bad in practice but still an interesting set.
I would love for gossamer to be a better set, but the fact that it can only proc on one person at a time and only when they have been damage makes it harder to proc and up time will always be really low. Change it to be on multiple people at once and I could deal with the having to take damage part. I mean its still a % proc chance too that isn't that high, and a somewhat short duration. I am all in favor of a gossamer buff.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »The breaking point between the two is 41k+ damage in a 6 sec window and as I pointed out earlier in the thread, most characters have around 20-25k health...
And when you´re actually bursting you should deal a bit more than 41k in 6s no - which is ironically exactly when it´s most important that riposte outperforms cp.
I mean i average 4.5 to 5.5k dps over 5min+ fights with my nb or sorc. To deal 41k you´d need 6.8 but you don´t have to sustain that.
I know i deal a lot more than 6.8k dps over 6s when i´m actually bursting a target.Edited by Derra on December 30, 2017 3:42PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
You absolute moron, magblade has both strife and path which are offensive skills but passively heal you. Those are almost never used when you want to heal, you have to use them in order to dps the person down.
You also didn’t mention leeching/siphoning.
Didn’t mention that burning embers, inhale, any animal companion ability, sweeps, PL, any dark magic ability, lots of sets, health regen, and potions all offer healing without needing to be defensive. And that’s not to mention pre-cast buffs like lotus, ritual, and rally that are always up and always healing even when being offensive. Hell, just health pot+native health regen is going to account for HALF of the damage he’s talking about being lethal and any passive heals built into a spec will cover the rest1 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@paulsimonps if gossamer was 15 seconds I’d back bar it on a lot of different builds despite the limitations. But the low proc chance and the low proc time are just sooo bad
On an unrelated note, why does stamina lack really appealing back bar sets like magika has?1 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭@paulsimonps if gossamer was 15 seconds I’d back bar it on a lot of different builds despite the limitations. But the low proc chance and the low proc time are just sooo bad
On an unrelated note, why does stamina lack really appealing back bar sets like magika has?
The real issue is giving up masters bow/ asylum 2h if you back bar a set.0 -
PenguinInACan✭✭✭✭So what I've gotten out of this so far is I should run Shadowrend/Trans and a dps set and the cooldown on Shadowrend will be offset by the mitigation from trans? Or was the 5 sec cd the reason shadowrend wasn't included in the list of defensive sets?Marek™0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PenguinInACan wrote: »So what I've gotten out of this so far is I should run Shadowrend/Trans and a dps set and the cooldown on Shadowrend will be offset by the mitigation from trans? Or was the 5 sec cd the reason shadowrend wasn't included in the list of defensive sets?
It wasn't on the list I think because it's a monster set, and is easier to include on any build while the others are a opportunity cost evaluation.
Shadowrend + Trans is pretty nifty (I'm a big SR fan because I love it's animation)
I think it's a good set up because trans will cover all opponents while SR will get 1 prob (which can also help allies)
Plus... Shadow dinosaur of doom1 -
Taylor_MB✭✭✭✭✭
✭@raasdal
I did consider adding that type of calculation in. So you enter your HPS, opponents tooltip DPS and it will calculate how long you can survive, so it actually takes HP set bonuses into account. It may be something I include in the future, but initially I wanted to keep it as simple as possible and for now I'm far too lazy to add anything (I've sunk a lot of time into this :P).
@PenguinInACan
It wasn't included because I forgot it exists :O. If you head over to tab "13 - WR vs Trans" you can simulate it pretty easily with Wizard's Riposte, seeming they are both minor maim.
*didn't deliberately make them even, but your estimate that they give similar mitigation is correct
So to do this we initially set WR mitigation value to 10% to account for SR's cooldown. Then assuming you are in CP we reduce minor maims effectiveness by an additional 20% (or more if you want to be safe)(as discussed previously in this thread). So that leaves us 8% to input as WR's mitigation value, producing the results above. Then I use my mad paint skills to write "Shadowrend" instead of WR
. PvP Defensive Set Comparison
Firestarter MagDK 1vX - build and gamplay!
LagPlar Ranged Lag Proof(ish) Magplar - build and gamplay!
ShadowGaurd MagBlade Group Utility Tank - build and gamplay!
Oncoming Storm No-CP 11.6k Ward MagSorc - build and gamplay!
My YouTube Chanel3 -
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[Deleted User]Soul ShrivenHello everyone,
Recently we've had to remove several comments for flaming, which is against the Forum Rules. For further posts please be sure to post more constructively and respectfully towards your fellow community members regardless of where they stand on the matter.
Thank you for understanding.1 -
Yubarius✭✭✭✭@Taylor_MB @Joy_Division I clearly see that Wizards Riposte boasts the most damage mitigation of the aforementioned sets and I was considering using it on a magicka sorc but I realized something.
Perhaps it was mentioned or I'm just slow, but wouldn't running Riposte on a mag sorc be counter intuitive since damage shields can't be crit? Also, it probably isn't very safe to intentionally let your shields drop, WANT to be crit only to get the minor maim buff that can be purged.
So should my conclusion be that riposte is only truly viable on a build that does NOT shield stack as a primary source of defense such as a magplar or magdk?Edited by Yubarius on December 31, 2017 12:45AM- Yubarius - Magicka NB - Flawless Conqueror
- YubariusX - Magicka Warden - Flawless Conqueror
- Lord Yubarius - Stamina Sorc - Stormproof - Centurion
- 'Rubick the Grand Magus - Magicka Sorc
- Fair Child Tank - Stamina DK
- Jaruko - Magicka Templar
- Selthyn Bavailo - Mag DK
- Bandit-The-Great - Stam Temp
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Taylor_MB✭✭✭✭✭
✭As per this thread shields can be crit, but they don't take critical damage. So shields will still proc WR on opponents.PvP Defensive Set Comparison
Firestarter MagDK 1vX - build and gamplay!
LagPlar Ranged Lag Proof(ish) Magplar - build and gamplay!
ShadowGaurd MagBlade Group Utility Tank - build and gamplay!
Oncoming Storm No-CP 11.6k Ward MagSorc - build and gamplay!
My YouTube Chanel2