Wizard's riposte and shields

LordSlif

I'll say the same thing that i said about Pirate Skeleton and shields:
Wizard's riposte procs when u recive critical dmg, BUT we know that shields dnt recive the extra dmg from crit strikes... so why are shields applying the debuff if they dnt recive the extra dmg? We know that crit dmg hurts and players that use shields and wizard's riposte are getting a strong "buff" without recive the crit dmg. Zos should do the same thing they have done with pirate skeleton, dmg on shields should not procs wizard's riposte effect
@ZOS_Wrobel

Drummerx04

I'd be cool with that. That set is really annoying. At least remove the stupid hum from the effect.

Qbiken

Wizard´s Riposte could get the Pirate Skeleton treatment and still be a viable set.

Lord-Otto

It's called "WIZARD's Riposte"... Makes sense for it to proc on magical shields. Impregnable and Fortified Brass work best on HP, this set is designed for shielders.

It's not OP. The health bonus is basically a wasted bonus, and the maim effect gets weaker the more mitigation you already have.
You can also achieve Maim with Shadowrend and Shade, both will proc Necropotence for more mitigation 1v1.

Curse the current defensive meta as a whole, not a single set.

Malamar1229

Get off my build!!!!

After all the nerfs, how the hell can anyone still be complaining about sorcs...

Qbiken

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Get off my build!!!!

After all the nerfs, how the hell can anyone still be complaining about sorcs...

I think I see magplars and magblades use Wizard´s Riposte more often than I see magsorcs using it to be honest.

Lord-Otto

Qbiken wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Get off my build!!!!

After all the nerfs, how the hell can anyone still be complaining about sorcs...

I think I see magplars and magblades use Wizard´s Riposte more often than I see magsorcs using it to be honest.

The latter makes little sense, tbh, they already have Fear and Shades for the debuff.

Saint_Bud

Such a set should not exist.

Qbiken

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Get off my build!!!!

After all the nerfs, how the hell can anyone still be complaining about sorcs...

I think I see magplars and magblades use Wizard´s Riposte more often than I see magsorcs using it to be honest.

The latter makes little sense, tbh, they already have Fear and Shades for the debuff.

One of the funniest combos I´ve played on magicka NB is Wizard´s Riposte + Transmutation (think I saw the build from KenaPK). Extremely tanky even in light armor. Sure they´ve shades and fear, but shade is somewhat semi-broken and only affects 1 person, and fear affects lesser people than it used to do.

WillhelmBlack

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Get off my build!!!!

After all the nerfs, how the hell can anyone still be complaining about sorcs...

I think I see magplars and magblades use Wizard´s Riposte more often than I see magsorcs using it to be honest.

The latter makes little sense, tbh, they already have Fear and Shades for the debuff.

Those 2 skills no one uses much anymore because Riposte does the debuff for you, instantly and effortlessly. You're better off with Flame Reach or Cripple for your CC for better timing of combo's. Shade is also broken as in it doesn't allow you to portback, only applies the debuff for 4 seconds and only applies to one target. Wizards Riposte applies it to the Templar who cast the Ritual you just walked through, the DK that reflected your light attack, the sorc that cast anything at you, the other NB that's just tried to gank you from Cloak. I hope you're getting the idea, basically that whole group you're fighting has turned purple and will stay that way the whole duration of the fight.

Lord-Otto

Qbiken wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Get off my build!!!!

After all the nerfs, how the hell can anyone still be complaining about sorcs...

I think I see magplars and magblades use Wizard´s Riposte more often than I see magsorcs using it to be honest.

The latter makes little sense, tbh, they already have Fear and Shades for the debuff.

One of the funniest combos I´ve played on magicka NB is Wizard´s Riposte + Transmutation (think I saw the build from KenaPK). Extremely tanky even in light armor. Sure they´ve shades and fear, but shade is somewhat semi-broken and only affects 1 person, and fear affects lesser people than it used to do.

Well, if you aim to live longer in a group of enemies, it certainly helps. But you should typically avoid those situations in the first place. Three people wailing on you is more than enough...
._.

Maulkin

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Those 2 skills no one uses much anymore because Riposte does the debuff for you, instantly and effortlessly. You're better off with Flame Reach or Cripple for your CC for better timing of combo's.

Not true at all. Vast majority of NBs use at least one of the two.

Shadow Image is both an escape tool and a proc for Necropotence, not just a Maim. Escape, buff and debuff rolled into one. Fear is necessary to burn the stam of permablockers and to give you windows of burst (for example, a guaranteed landing of Meteor and a Merciless Resolve unblocked).

You can go without one of the two, but going without both (especially on a destro staff), you're a guaranteed kill for the first semi-capable MagDK you'll meet. You'll be perma-rooted and slowed without being able to land a Hard CC and without an escape skill.

Lexxypwns

Riposte isn’t making or breaking you killing someone. It literally just takes a small amount of pressure off light armor builds

Minno

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Riposte isn’t making or breaking you killing someone. It literally just takes a small amount of pressure off light armor builds

Weakening enchants are worse than reposte (and probably what's making it feel more OP than it is).

Emma_Overload

LordSlif wrote: »

I'll say the same thing that i said about Pirate Skeleton and shields:
Wizard's riposte procs when u recive critical dmg, BUT we know that shields dnt recive the extra dmg from crit strikes... so why are shields applying the debuff if they dnt recive the extra dmg? We know that crit dmg hurts and players that use shields and wizard's riposte are getting a strong "buff" without recive the crit dmg. Zos should do the same thing they have done with pirate skeleton, dmg on shields should not procs wizard's riposte effect
@ZOS_Wrobel

No, that's the way it SHOULD work. ZOS made a terrible mistake and set a bad precedent when they nerfed Pirate Skeleton. This thread is the proof of that!

Lexxypwns

Minno wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Riposte isn’t making or breaking you killing someone. It literally just takes a small amount of pressure off light armor builds

Weakening enchants are worse than reposte (and probably what's making it feel more OP than it is).

Shhh

Ragnarock41

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Riposte isn’t making or breaking you killing someone. It literally just takes a small amount of pressure off light armor builds

that isnt the issue here, It procs literally because you accidentally light attacked the guy or your volatile armor somehow critted on the guy, and then it debuffs you forever. I also have NO CLUE, why it works with shields. like.. WHY?

Malamar1229

Qbiken wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Get off my build!!!!

After all the nerfs, how the hell can anyone still be complaining about sorcs...

I think I see magplars and magblades use Wizard´s Riposte more often than I see magsorcs using it to be honest.

He pluralized shields so i immediately thought the reference was with sorcs. And because I get so many hate tells in game.

Nonetheless, running this set has enabled me to play with just hard ward, which frees up a bar slot to add a little diversity to the sorc class. It's also a big sacrifice in offensive to play more defensively.

I get it's probably a bigger pain on magplars and magblades though.

Malamar1229

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Riposte isn’t making or breaking you killing someone. It literally just takes a small amount of pressure off light armor builds

Weakening enchants are worse than reposte (and probably what's making it feel more OP than it is).

Shhh

Send me a PM if you don't want to say publicly but I was looking at infused weakening the other day thinking I could replace riposte with this weapon glyph and run another set instead...but the infused glyph was still like 340something dmg and I'm not sure the uptime with infused but are hinting the dmg reduction is comparable to the maim?

LordSlif

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's called "WIZARD's Riposte"... Makes sense for it to proc on magical shields. Impregnable and Fortified Brass work best on HP, this set is designed for shielders.

It's not OP. The health bonus is basically a wasted bonus, and the maim effect gets weaker the more mitigation you already have.
You can also achieve Maim with Shadowrend and Shade, both will proc Necropotence for more mitigation 1v1.

Curse the current defensive meta as a whole, not a single set.

Ill repeat Im not talking about magsorcs, but in this game a strong buff comes with a strong downside, "the two sides of the coin", but when someone is full divines and using a set that must to recive crit dmg to procs its effect because u can exploit it with shields, im sure that there is a problem with this set

WrathOfInnos

Weakening enchant is the direct counter to berserker enchant (weapon and spell damage). It is usually 5-10% damage reduction depending on the build, and is therefore weaker than riposte's 15%. The two can stack for even more mitigation.

Lord-Otto

LordSlif wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's called "WIZARD's Riposte"... Makes sense for it to proc on magical shields. Impregnable and Fortified Brass work best on HP, this set is designed for shielders.

It's not OP. The health bonus is basically a wasted bonus, and the maim effect gets weaker the more mitigation you already have.
You can also achieve Maim with Shadowrend and Shade, both will proc Necropotence for more mitigation 1v1.

Curse the current defensive meta as a whole, not a single set.

Ill repeat Im not talking about magsorcs, but in this game a strong buff comes with a strong downside, "the two sides of the coin", but when someone is full divines and using a set that must to recive crit dmg to procs its effect because u can exploit it with shields, im sure that there is a problem with this set

Don't worry, if someone wears full divines, he's gonna get pulverized by the first competent player that comes around. No problem here.
My LA MagDK and MagNB use shields, btw.

ToRelax

Pirate Skeleton comes with a downside that shields ignore. Wizard's Riposte doesn't have a downside to ignore. You aren't ignoring crit damage because of the set but because of the shield. The set doesn't change that, and works in this scenario just like in any other.

Malamar1229

Id be ok with changing the set to provide defile instead

Biro123

It isn't anything to do with reposte, its how shields work. Even though they don't take crit damage, they still register as crit hits - for good or ill. eg. A stam sorc with surge up critting against a shield user will trigger the crit-surge heal, just as the shield-user will trigger reposte.

I'm pretty sure zos introduced this set with full knowledge of that mechanic.

You cannot change it for one without impacting every other set/ability/mechanic that triggers off a crit. I'm sure nobody really wants that.

ToRelax

Biro123 wrote: »

It isn't anything to do with reposte, its how shields work. Even though they don't take crit damage, they still register as crit hits - for good or ill. eg. A stam sorc with surge up critting against a shield user will trigger the crit-surge heal, just as the shield-user will trigger reposte.

I'm pretty sure zos introduced this set with full knowledge of that mechanic.

You cannot change it for one without impacting every other set/ability/mechanic that triggers off a crit. I'm sure nobody really wants that.

Of course you can change it apart from other stuff. Just no reason to.

LordSlif

ToRelax wrote: »

Pirate Skeleton comes with a downside that shields ignore. Wizard's Riposte doesn't have a downside to ignore. You aren't ignoring crit damage because of the set but because of the shield. The set doesn't change that, and works in this scenario just like in any other.

Shields are ignoring crit dmg and the set works with crit dmg... we have a problem here

Lord-Otto

LordSlif wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Pirate Skeleton comes with a downside that shields ignore. Wizard's Riposte doesn't have a downside to ignore. You aren't ignoring crit damage because of the set but because of the shield. The set doesn't change that, and works in this scenario just like in any other.

Shields are ignoring crit dmg and the set works with crit dmg... we have a problem here

True. Change it so that every time you take damage, there's a 50% chance to proc Minor Maim for 15 seconds. Happy now?
NEEEXT!

Morbash

Needs a buff. Should apply both major and minor maim.

ak_pvp

Biro123 wrote: »

It isn't anything to do with reposte, its how shields work. Even though they don't take crit damage, they still register as crit hits - for good or ill. eg. A stam sorc with surge up critting against a shield user will trigger the crit-surge heal, just as the shield-user will trigger reposte.

I'm pretty sure zos introduced this set with full knowledge of that mechanic.

You cannot change it for one without impacting every other set/ability/mechanic that triggers off a crit. I'm sure nobody really wants that.

^^

For the uninitiated. You deal crit damage, the shield takes a look at the damage, and changes it to the shield damage type, (which either has a multiplier of zero on the base, OR a negative multiplier which takes the crit damage and reverts it) and subtracts it from the shield. Any damage over the size of the shield has the crit multiplier factor in normally.

Either way, the damage you dealt was critical, it just deals no extra damage.

Fun facts, using a DPS test, you can see that you are hitting people with hardened ward/harness mag.

Ragnarock41

I love how the sorc community starts to troll everything when something actually broken is being talked about.

IF I can't crit shields, I should not proc wizard riposte when hitting a shield, simple as that really.
I don't know how can you argue against something as clear as this.