[MATH] PvP Defensive Set Comparison (Impreg, Brass, Pariah, Riposte, + more)
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TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
Entertaining my ass. He's unable to accept that he's wrong that's it. To summarize him in an analogy, it's like a 70 year old NBA fan would try to argue and convince Mike Jordan that the way he plays ball is right and Jordan has no clue what he's doing.
We play 100% min maxed and theorycrafted builds and then comes this smartass and tries to tell us that there's a set we overlooked while spending weeks optimizing builds to perfection. Dude is delusional.
Argue with the math...not me.
Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
Oooooo...
Math time!!
So on a 4k light attack, we can expect Riposte to reduce its damage by 400 due to diminishing returns....
Wow, at that rate, it would take 11 light attacks in a 6 second span for Riposte to negate more damage than Combat Physician will in an equal time span...
Awesome!!!
4k damage shield every 6s that could potentially hit a target, and will only proc after you have gotten hit and only if the heal after you got hit is a crit, AMAZING. Such a great set. That vs a near constant up time on Minor Maim wish also does not have a cooldown and can effect multiple enemies at once and will as well help defend your allies.... Also with the amount of DoTs that is thrown around, and seriously you are using light attacks as your example? Minor Maim will keep protecting you even if the damage you take exceeds 4000k over a 6s period. The added benefit of Wizards also working against gankers.... there is really no comparing these 2 sets. CP has been trash for a very long time in group based content such as open world PvP. Facing multiple opponents on your own as well. Really only Duels where CP might be viable.3 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »
4k damage shield every 6s that could potentially hit a target, and will only proc after you have gotten hit and only if the heal after you got hit is a crit, AMAZING. Such a great set. That vs a near constant up time on Minor Maim wish also does not have a cooldown and can effect multiple enemies at once and will as well help defend your allies.... Also with the amount of DoTs that is thrown around, and seriously you are using light attacks as your example? Minor Maim will keep protecting you even if the damage you take exceeds 4000k over a 6s period. The added benefit of Wizards also working against gankers.... there is really no comparing these 2 sets. CP has been trash for a very long time in group based content such as open world PvP. Facing multiple opponents on your own as well. Really only Duels where CP might be viable.
The set is not trash and there are several reasons to compare the two sets; they have been detailed above...
Go back and read and you'll see what I mean...
Btw, break your words down into something more easily digestible than a huge block of text; that makes it easier to respond to... Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Guys, stop responding to him, please. Let's keep this thread concise with information.2 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
CP is trash. Get over it. You are literally arguing for a set only from a duel perspective and yet not a single player in any duelling tournament used that set. If you absolutely wanted to put on a defensive set that is just good in a 1v1 scenario u can put on blessed meridia. There you go, no need for a tiny shield every few seconds. You can just dodge everything with a 40-50% uptime.
Meridian is heavy...no thanx.
Light Armor passives are awesome and are too good to pass up...
Even Lexx agrees with me on this... Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
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Entertaining my ass. He's unable to accept that he's wrong that's it. To summarize him in an analogy, it's like a 70 year old NBA fan would try to argue and convince Mike Jordan that the way he plays ball is right and Jordan has no clue what he's doing.
We play 100% min maxed and theorycrafted builds and then comes this smartass and tries to tell us that there's a set we overlooked while spending weeks optimizing builds to perfection. Dude is delusional.
I didn’t overlook it, I’ve tested combat physician multiple times. That’s the ridiculous thing, he insists I’m ignorant when I’ve run this set for probably 50 hours of pvp gameplay.
I always test, always. You never know what’s going to better than it seems(overwhelming surge) or far worse(livewire). I’ve had CP in perfect traits on weapons and jewels for more than 18 months but this joker acts as though I don’t know what I’m talking about despite thoroughly testing every possible combination with this disaster of a set.
Also, meridias is always better than CP in duels3 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
I didn’t overlook it, I’ve tested combat physician multiple times. That’s the ridiculous thing, he insists I’m ignorant when I’ve run this set for probably 50 hours of pvp gameplay.
I always test, always. You never know what’s going to better than it seems(overwhelming surge) or far worse(livewire). I’ve had CP in perfect traits on weapons and jewels for more than 18 months but this joker acts as though I don’t know what I’m talking about despite thoroughly testing every possible combination with this disaster of a set.
Also, meridias is always better than CP in duels
If you've only put 50 hrs into it, then I've tested it far more than you have...Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
If you've only put 50 hrs into it, then I've tested it far more than you have...
What do you do if CP bubble breaks before the CD? Because it is not a big bubble and requires a crit heal to work.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
If you've only put 50 hrs into it, then I've tested it far more than you have...
50 hours is more than enough to test a set and compare it with others that he's spent an equal amount if not more on.
Also math is irrelevant in pvp. Night mother's gaze provides more dps (ergo more "math") than clever alchemist yet clever is better than nmg in any way possible for PvP.Edited by Subversus on December 29, 2017 6:36PM3 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
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50 hours is more than enough to test a set and compare it with others that he's spent an equal amount if not more on.
Also math is irrelevant in pvp. Night mother's gaze provides more dps (ergo more "math") than clever alchemist yet clever is better than nmg in any way possible for PvP.
I’ve tested it in conjunction with: Surge, mothers sorrow, Necro, spinners, julianos, treasure hunter, bsw, seducer, Lich, and alchemist at least. I’ll check my notes when I get home. Although obviously hundreds of duels is an adequate sample size1 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
50 hours is more than enough to test a set and compare it with others that he's spent an equal amount if not more on.
Also math is irrelevant in pvp. Night mother's gaze provides more dps (ergo more "math") than clever alchemist yet clever is better than nmg in any way possible for PvP.
50 hrs wasn't enough for him if I know things about the set that he doesnt know...
Also, math is very relevant in PvP...
Even @Taylor_MB Will agree with me on this...Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
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I’ve tested it in conjunction with: Surge, mothers sorrow, Necro, spinners, julianos, treasure hunter, bsw, seducer, Lich, and alchemist at least. I’ll check my notes when I get home. Although obviously hundreds of duels is an adequate sample size
This is the absurdity of the situation (and the hypocrisy lmao). You tested loads of setups and here comes some guy that obviously tested less and claims he knows more. LUL0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
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This is the absurdity of the situation (and the hypocrisy lmao). You tested loads of setups and here comes some guy that obviously tested less and claims he knows more. LUL
Let’s break it down further. I devised that the best possible build to wear CP on is a mag NB with mother’s sorrow. Huge crit chance and I had multiple HoTs to proc it basically on cooldown. Despite a big bastion investment and huge crit chance I still found the shield was inadequate to offer noticeable survivability even in a duel situation.0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
This is the absurdity of the situation (and the hypocrisy lmao). You tested loads of setups and here comes some guy that obviously tested less and claims he knows more. LUL
How is it obvious I tested less?
Please explain how you know this...Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on December 29, 2017 6:48PMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
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But you didn't test it with Vampire Lord, that's your mistake!
I’ve tested it in conjunction with: Surge, mothers sorrow, Necro, spinners, julianos, treasure hunter, bsw, seducer, Lich, and alchemist at least. I’ll check my notes when I get home. Although obviously hundreds of duels is an adequate sample size
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TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
Let’s break it down further. I devised that the best possible build to wear CP on is a mag NB with mother’s sorrow. Huge crit chance and I had multiple HoTs to proc it basically on cooldown. Despite a big bastion investment and huge crit chance I still found the shield was inadequate to offer noticeable survivability even in a duel situation.
Have you tested Combat Physician with every possible loadout and gear set on a Magicka Templar?Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
I’ve tested it in conjunction with: Surge, mothers sorrow, Necro, spinners, julianos, treasure hunter, bsw, seducer, Lich, and alchemist at least. I’ll check my notes when I get home. Although obviously hundreds of duels is an adequate sample size
That's all?
Then I've absolutely tested it more than you have...Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Let’s break it down further. I devised that the best possible build to wear CP on is a mag NB with mother’s sorrow. Huge crit chance and I had multiple HoTs to proc it basically on cooldown. Despite a big bastion investment and huge crit chance I still found the shield was inadequate to offer noticeable survivability even in a duel situation.
Weaving is also a factor to consider. Weaving before every skill makes it basically useless if you only take the follow up attack into consideration. At best you'll have a 1k shield to mitigate an ability every 6 seconds. Abilities are the ones that put the actual pressure against a target, and calling a negated light attack every 6 seconds something better than riposte is absurd.1 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
Who tested more is irrelevant. I’m a competitive player and you’re quite plainly not. The fact that I’ve tested this on 4/5 magika classes and with numerous gear sets is enough to validate my opinion and your straw man of “more testing time” is strictly irrelevant for discrediting me in this case because once adequate testing has been done and a conclusion reached further testing becomes pointless. I don’t need to go drop something and watch it fall every day to confirm gravity,
for exampleEdited by Lexxypwns on December 29, 2017 6:56PM4 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Who tested more is irrelevant. I’m a competitive player and you’re quite plainly not. The fact that I’ve tested this on 4/5 magika classes and with numerous gear sets is enough to validate my opinion and your straw man of “more testing time” is strictly irrelevant for discrediting me in this case because once adequate testing has been done and a conclusion reached further testing becomes pointless. I don’t need to go drop something and watch it fall every day to confirm gravity,
for example
I'll stop replying to him, it's pointless to get worked up over someone that's most likely not gonna change his mind.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I find these Combat Physician threads so amusing.
I wonder if Wrobel is proud one of his sets has such a fanatical adherent.6 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
I'll stop replying to him, it's pointless to get worked up over someone that's most likely not gonna change his mind.
Oh, my mind is open to being changed; I can absolutely own it if i'm wrong about something...
But I haven't seen an argument that's convinced me that I'm wrong about Combat Physician...Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IMO, CP seems too inefficient. Sure, it could get some great mitigation as the bubble stands up, but that bubble has a cost associated, which is the heal. It means that, if you haven't received dmg, you cannot proc it, contrary to other bubbles, such has harness, or annulment, that can be casted out of a fight.
In the case of HoT it turns into a RGN roulette to get the crit (IDK if it proc on HoTs). The thing is that if yo go for burst to proc it, it can be a waste of magicka to make it work. For example, a mDK using Cblood as main heal could have big problems with that set unless he builds towards crit... but it is quite uncommon to see a mDK using crits as main feature, unless they're healers.
So, understanding that you need magicka to proc the set, it comes the comparison. Hardened or Annulment both give something back for the price you have to spend on them, same as Igneous or even sun shield. When compare it with other set shields, such as Imperium or Swift, the price is too high (both shields can proc on a minimum dmg received). Not to mention Hatchling shell, which is for free and has some more than decent mitigation stats, and Para Bellum, which works quite well for opening (and can be combined with another more reliable bubble). Even good old Whitestrake's works exactly when you need it (30% heath). The last two of them provide bigger shields and can eventually work together.
There's another flaw I see on CP. If it does work on crit heals, it means your healing must be your strongest feature, so it works based on mitigation... so it is mitigation (heal) over mitigation (bubble). There's a skill that works similar to that and does it better: Healing ward. That wonderful skill is mitigation (bubble) over mitigation (heal) and escalates based on how small is your health pool... and has no CD associated. The best part of the comparsisson is the fact that you don't need a strong healing based build to use Ward, while CP only works well for healers.
After that analisis, comparing a set that procs on every crit received, applying minor maim for 15 sec on any enemy hitting you, and that has no CD (and no cost) with a very expensive weak shield that requires you to build towards it, seems... how to put it? Oh, yeah...
.
.
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Naive...Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don´t understand what the arguement is about tbh.
Combat physician can theoretically outperform riposte in a strict 1v1 scenario if you manage to procc it absolutely on cooldown if you have it permanently active on both bars and your opponent does not break the dps threshhold for riposte to become better.
Most builds do not run two permanent 5p bonuses (and as a single 5p combat physician isn´t good enough). Which is an advantage for riposte - it´s perfectly fine only on backbar.
Most people also do not only fight one opponent at the same time - in cyrodiil as soon as you fight 2 people it´s basically impossible for CP to outperform riposte.
Another argument is that the double critbonus on combat physician is as undesireable as it can get. Crit is simply an afterthought compared to other setbonuses (regen, dmg, stats).
Sure it´s theoretically decent on a build having it permanently active on both bars - but sets like transmutation or riposte don´t have to meet that criteria to be 100% effective and scale with number of people you´re fighting wheras CP does not.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Combat Physician is better than Riposte in ways that Riposte can't match...
Did you all know that Purifying Light can Proc the Combat Physician Damage Shield?
Of course many of you didnt know this; you don't use the gear...how would you know?
So I can give out my 5th piece Healing Bonus and do excellent burst damage to a target simultaneously...
And not only that, I can do so from safety from the back ranks (or from on top of a keep wall) without ever once exposing myself to danger...
Riposte simply can't match that...
Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on December 29, 2017 8:33PMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Combat Physician is better than Riposte in ways that Riposte can't match...
Did you all know that Purifying Light can Proc the Combat Physician Damage Shield?
Of course many of you didnt know this; you don't use the gear...how would you know?
So I can give out my 5th piece Healing Bonus and do excellent burst damage to a target simultaneously...
And not only that, I can do so from safety from the back ranks (or from on top of a keep wall) without ever once exposing myself to danger...
Riposte simply can't match that...
It's the type of mitigation that is so bad. Its easy to create a window of offense and fight around. If that would proc while in pressuring you on any character, you'd lose it and be without ANY mitigation from your 5pc.
Anything can be used in a zerg fight. We are talking about skilled game play here.
Reposte can absolutely make a larger impact than CP, you just can't stand in the back in safety of a zerg spamming heals. If 10 ppl hit my frontline templar build. Chances are they'll get maim on them with a couple attacks. Boom. Instantly better than CPs mediocre conditional shields on a cooldown.0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »
It's the type of mitigation that is so bad. Its easy to create a window of offense and fight around. If that would proc while in pressuring you on any character, you'd lose it and be without ANY mitigation from your 5pc.
Anything can be used in a zerg fight. We are talking about skilled game play here.
Reposte can absolutely make a larger impact than CP, you just can't stand in the back in safety of a zerg spamming heals. If 10 ppl hit my frontline templar build. Chances are they'll get maim on them with a couple attacks. Boom. Instantly better than CPs mediocre conditional shields on a cooldown.
If your healer is on the front line against a large organized group, then he/she/It is dead...Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on December 29, 2017 9:08PMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭@Brutusmax1mus
Ah, but I know what abilities proc it, so I can fight in situations were it will proc when facing an opponents burst (while unloading burst of my own) and destroy them...
I do it all the time when facing stamina builds...
And I absolutely use it in situations that call for skill as a result...
I know precisely how to get maximum benefit from Combat Physician...and when to get it.Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »@Brutusmax1mus
Ah, but I know what abilities proc it, so I can fight in situations were it will proc when facing an opponents burst (while unloading burst of my own) and destroy them...
I do it all the time when facing stamina builds...
And I absolutely use it in situations that call for skill as a result...
I know precisely how to get maximum benefit from Combat Physician...and when to get it.
Fight me1
