[MATH] PvP Defensive Set Comparison (Impreg, Brass, Pariah, Riposte, + more)

paulsimonps

ManDraKE wrote: »

Amazing thread, thanks for the effort. And it confirms what we already knew, minor maim needs to be nerfed.

No, it really really really does not...... How did you come to that conclusion?

ManDraKE wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Amazing thread, thanks for the effort. And it confirms what we already knew, minor maim needs to be nerfed.

No, it really really really does not...... How did you come to that conclusion?

It provides to much mitigation, and dosn't have a counter-buff, for example Minor protection/vulnerability are only 8%.
On top of that, we have to consider wizard's riposte, AoE minor mail with 100% uptime that you can backbar. And this is not an exclusive problem with wizard's riposte, there is a reason why in duels you will a ton of people running low slash, shade and other sources of minor mailm. Is too strong of a buff that dosn't have a proper counter-buff.

@Taylor_MB if is not too much to ask, could you add maces to the penetration info boxes, to make the calculations easier.

Ok, so you say protection and vulnerability are opposits, and that maim does not have one. I want to ask you then, what is the opposit of Minor/Major Brutality, Sorcery, or Beserk? Directly speaking Brutality and Sorcery do not have a Minor/Major debuff to counter them, but at the same time many say Beserk doesn't either cause Maim has a higher value on both its Minor and Major.

Would it not though make sense for it to have a higher number to account for the fact that there is no counter to Brutality and Sorcery? Buffs that are extremely common and used by practically everyone, even Minor Beserk can be counted as a very common buff, though not as common as Brutality and Sorcery.

Minor Maim it self should not be nerfed but nerfing Wizards in such a way that it is still usefull against high crit enemies but not as good against low crit enemies would be something that I think would be good for the game. Wizards would not have such insane uptime on anything but the players with really high crit chance, you could then make ambuild to counter it with low crit chance but high buffs in base damage. Something like that would not only counter a nerfed version on Wizards it would also counter the crit resist that a lot of players value very high, it would also work great against shield builds.

So don't nerf Minor Maim, adjust the sources if needed

Taylor_MB

@BucFanJKE @ManDraKE
Hey guys, I will add reactive and maces in the next couple of days when I get some time! Great suggestions.

@HaruyukiHana
Just in terms of raw mitigation, there is definitely a case for Fortified Brass in no-CP where penetration and critical chance are naturally lower, but generally even in no-CP the people killing you would be built more "properly" with higher penetration and higher critical chance. Also, having all of Wizard's Riposte mitigation coming from the 5th piece, you actually have some magicka orientated set bonuses, which FB misses out on.

@Minno Your wish is my command.

Just added Pirate Skeleton to tab '12 - Pirate Skeleton' for now, will add to rest later.
Can you still purge off the minor defile from PS? If not would it be fair to say the mitigation really only equals 15% (if not vs shields)? Will have to do some investigation!

paulsimonps

Taylor_MB wrote: »

@BucFanJKE @ManDraKE
Hey guys, I will add reactive and maces in the next couple of days when I get some time! Great suggestions.

@HaruyukiHana
Just in terms of raw mitigation, there is definitely a case for Fortified Brass in no-CP where penetration and critical chance are naturally lower, but generally even in no-CP the people killing you would be built more "properly" with higher penetration and higher critical chance. Also, having all of Wizard's Riposte mitigation coming from the 5th piece, you actually have some magicka orientated set bonuses, which FB misses out on.

@Minno Your wish is my command.

Just added Pirate Skeleton to tab '12 - Pirate Skeleton' for now, will add to rest later.
Can you still purge off the minor defile from PS? If not would it be fair to say the mitigation really only equals 15% (if not vs shields)? Will have to do some investigation!

Just tested on PTS, you can purge the minor defile.

Minno

paulsimonps wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

@BucFanJKE @ManDraKE
Hey guys, I will add reactive and maces in the next couple of days when I get some time! Great suggestions.

@HaruyukiHana
Just in terms of raw mitigation, there is definitely a case for Fortified Brass in no-CP where penetration and critical chance are naturally lower, but generally even in no-CP the people killing you would be built more "properly" with higher penetration and higher critical chance. Also, having all of Wizard's Riposte mitigation coming from the 5th piece, you actually have some magicka orientated set bonuses, which FB misses out on.

@Minno Your wish is my command.

Just added Pirate Skeleton to tab '12 - Pirate Skeleton' for now, will add to rest later.
Can you still purge off the minor defile from PS? If not would it be fair to say the mitigation really only equals 15% (if not vs shields)? Will have to do some investigation!

Just tested on PTS, you can purge the minor defile.

Yay! Thanks @Taylor_MB!

With the new buff set the duration of pirate increases to 16.8 seconds.

TheDoomsdayMonster

@Taylor_MB

To change gears from my normal argument, what do you think of the Mighty Chudan Monster Set as pertains to defensive ability in PvP?

Especially as pertains what it brings to the table vs Blood Spawn or Pirates Skelly, or 1 piece Chudan + 1 piece Pirates...

Joy_Division

paulsimonps wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

@BucFanJKE @ManDraKE
Hey guys, I will add reactive and maces in the next couple of days when I get some time! Great suggestions.

@HaruyukiHana
Just in terms of raw mitigation, there is definitely a case for Fortified Brass in no-CP where penetration and critical chance are naturally lower, but generally even in no-CP the people killing you would be built more "properly" with higher penetration and higher critical chance. Also, having all of Wizard's Riposte mitigation coming from the 5th piece, you actually have some magicka orientated set bonuses, which FB misses out on.

@Minno Your wish is my command.

Just added Pirate Skeleton to tab '12 - Pirate Skeleton' for now, will add to rest later.
Can you still purge off the minor defile from PS? If not would it be fair to say the mitigation really only equals 15% (if not vs shields)? Will have to do some investigation!

Just tested on PTS, you can purge the minor defile.

That can't be cleansed on Live?

Trashs1

holy ***.... thats going to proove my own testing on my light magplar.

2 pice pirate skeleton is awensome on her even with the healdebuff

ManDraKE

pirate skeleton debuff was unpurgeable when the item set was launch, and AFAIK is was intended. If it's purgeable now, is a bug for sure

Minno

Trashs1 wrote: »

holy ***.... thats going to proove my own testing on my light magplar.

2 pice pirate skeleton is awensome on her even with the healdebuff

That's because even with the heal debuff, you aren't popping BoL at full health. Usually you are hitting it at a point where you'll be making use of our mending passive which the extra healing from that offsets the minor defile a little.

If we didn't use channeled focus, restoring focus would probably be better used here since the 8% extra healing and 8% minor protection would offset that defile debuff entirely.

Even on live, I like the uptime on pirate.

Trashs1

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

holy ***.... thats going to proove my own testing on my light magplar.

2 pice pirate skeleton is awensome on her even with the healdebuff

That's because even with the heal debuff, you aren't popping BoL at full health. Usually you are hitting it at a point where you'll be making use of our mending passive which the extra healing from that offsets the minor defile a little.

If we didn't use channeled focus, restoring focus would probably be better used here since the 8% extra healing and 8% minor protection would offset that defile debuff entirely.

Even on live, I like the uptime on pirate.

yes i did really alot of testing of many different monster sets and offensive/deffensive sets
for me i came to the following conclution

5 surge or spc (depends on grp) on body
5 trans on snb backbar
2 pirates
2 willpower swords

canot say its not working well. but im still thinking mageplar is kinda weak atm compared to other classes

/e also using the skeleton morph for no global cd when pirate is procing

Minno

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

holy ***.... thats going to proove my own testing on my light magplar.

2 pice pirate skeleton is awensome on her even with the healdebuff

That's because even with the heal debuff, you aren't popping BoL at full health. Usually you are hitting it at a point where you'll be making use of our mending passive which the extra healing from that offsets the minor defile a little.

If we didn't use channeled focus, restoring focus would probably be better used here since the 8% extra healing and 8% minor protection would offset that defile debuff entirely.

Even on live, I like the uptime on pirate.

yes i did really alot of testing of many different monster sets and offensive/deffensive sets
for me i came to the following conclution

5 surge or spc (depends on grp) on body
5 trans on snb backbar
2 pirates
2 willpower swords

canot say its not working well. but im still thinking mageplar is kinda weak atm compared to other classes

/e also using the skeleton morph for no global cd when pirate is procing

DMG enchants? DMG mundas?
Both of those with light and surge should be enough damage on magplar. If you only have 1400 recovery, you'll need channeled focus + ele drain to have around the minimum 1800-1900 recovery.

It's very weak, but fixes to jabs will help.

Minno

And I don't use a polymorph. I use it as a reminder I can setup burst with jabs a little more easily knowing the major protection is giving a large bit of mitigation. Plus it's only effects reaction defenses like block? My magplar isn't a block build so I don't really notice the GCD morph change.

Trashs1

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

holy ***.... thats going to proove my own testing on my light magplar.

2 pice pirate skeleton is awensome on her even with the healdebuff

That's because even with the heal debuff, you aren't popping BoL at full health. Usually you are hitting it at a point where you'll be making use of our mending passive which the extra healing from that offsets the minor defile a little.

If we didn't use channeled focus, restoring focus would probably be better used here since the 8% extra healing and 8% minor protection would offset that defile debuff entirely.

Even on live, I like the uptime on pirate.

yes i did really alot of testing of many different monster sets and offensive/deffensive sets
for me i came to the following conclution

5 surge or spc (depends on grp) on body
5 trans on snb backbar
2 pirates
2 willpower swords

canot say its not working well. but im still thinking mageplar is kinda weak atm compared to other classes

/e also using the skeleton morph for no global cd when pirate is procing

DMG enchants? DMG mundas?
Both of those with light and surge should be enough damage on magplar. If you only have 1400 recovery, you'll need channeled focus + ele drain to have around the minimum 1800-1900 recovery.

It's very weak, but fixes to jabs will help.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=34743

that is she, although bars are not acurate anymore, im a strictly no cp player besides BGs but that changes next patch too

Minno

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

holy ***.... thats going to proove my own testing on my light magplar.

2 pice pirate skeleton is awensome on her even with the healdebuff

That's because even with the heal debuff, you aren't popping BoL at full health. Usually you are hitting it at a point where you'll be making use of our mending passive which the extra healing from that offsets the minor defile a little.

If we didn't use channeled focus, restoring focus would probably be better used here since the 8% extra healing and 8% minor protection would offset that defile debuff entirely.

Even on live, I like the uptime on pirate.

yes i did really alot of testing of many different monster sets and offensive/deffensive sets
for me i came to the following conclution

5 surge or spc (depends on grp) on body
5 trans on snb backbar
2 pirates
2 willpower swords

canot say its not working well. but im still thinking mageplar is kinda weak atm compared to other classes

/e also using the skeleton morph for no global cd when pirate is procing

DMG enchants? DMG mundas?
Both of those with light and surge should be enough damage on magplar. If you only have 1400 recovery, you'll need channeled focus + ele drain to have around the minimum 1800-1900 recovery.

It's very weak, but fixes to jabs will help.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=34743

that is she, although bars are not acurate anymore, im a strictly no cp player besides BGs but that changes next patch too

Takes forever to open on my phone. Can you select "view this build" and copy the link to that view for me?

Trashs1

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

holy ***.... thats going to proove my own testing on my light magplar.

2 pice pirate skeleton is awensome on her even with the healdebuff

That's because even with the heal debuff, you aren't popping BoL at full health. Usually you are hitting it at a point where you'll be making use of our mending passive which the extra healing from that offsets the minor defile a little.

If we didn't use channeled focus, restoring focus would probably be better used here since the 8% extra healing and 8% minor protection would offset that defile debuff entirely.

Even on live, I like the uptime on pirate.

yes i did really alot of testing of many different monster sets and offensive/deffensive sets
for me i came to the following conclution

5 surge or spc (depends on grp) on body
5 trans on snb backbar
2 pirates
2 willpower swords

canot say its not working well. but im still thinking mageplar is kinda weak atm compared to other classes

/e also using the skeleton morph for no global cd when pirate is procing

DMG enchants? DMG mundas?
Both of those with light and surge should be enough damage on magplar. If you only have 1400 recovery, you'll need channeled focus + ele drain to have around the minimum 1800-1900 recovery.

It's very weak, but fixes to jabs will help.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=34743

that is she, although bars are not acurate anymore, im a strictly no cp player besides BGs but that changes next patch too

Takes forever to open on my phone. Can you select "view this build" and copy the link to that view for me?

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=34743

here we go

Minno

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

holy ***.... thats going to proove my own testing on my light magplar.

2 pice pirate skeleton is awensome on her even with the healdebuff

That's because even with the heal debuff, you aren't popping BoL at full health. Usually you are hitting it at a point where you'll be making use of our mending passive which the extra healing from that offsets the minor defile a little.

If we didn't use channeled focus, restoring focus would probably be better used here since the 8% extra healing and 8% minor protection would offset that defile debuff entirely.

Even on live, I like the uptime on pirate.

yes i did really alot of testing of many different monster sets and offensive/deffensive sets
for me i came to the following conclution

5 surge or spc (depends on grp) on body
5 trans on snb backbar
2 pirates
2 willpower swords

canot say its not working well. but im still thinking mageplar is kinda weak atm compared to other classes

/e also using the skeleton morph for no global cd when pirate is procing

DMG enchants? DMG mundas?
Both of those with light and surge should be enough damage on magplar. If you only have 1400 recovery, you'll need channeled focus + ele drain to have around the minimum 1800-1900 recovery.

It's very weak, but fixes to jabs will help.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=34743

that is she, although bars are not acurate anymore, im a strictly no cp player besides BGs but that changes next patch too

Takes forever to open on my phone. Can you select "view this build" and copy the link to that view for me?

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=34743

here we go

Beautiful! Takes like 2 second to load versus 10 minutes for the actual editor lol.

Your Stam is really low. Swap witch for tri food; you'll be at better health/Stam and increase your mag pool a little. At 3k SD you need a minimum of 33k mag to be effective against some hard meta builds.

But then again you are using SnB so you need the mag Regen . Tough call. I'd say swap trans for desert rose since your using mist form, swap witch for tri food, and see if that's enough stats?

Trashs1

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

holy ***.... thats going to proove my own testing on my light magplar.

2 pice pirate skeleton is awensome on her even with the healdebuff

That's because even with the heal debuff, you aren't popping BoL at full health. Usually you are hitting it at a point where you'll be making use of our mending passive which the extra healing from that offsets the minor defile a little.

If we didn't use channeled focus, restoring focus would probably be better used here since the 8% extra healing and 8% minor protection would offset that defile debuff entirely.

Even on live, I like the uptime on pirate.

yes i did really alot of testing of many different monster sets and offensive/deffensive sets
for me i came to the following conclution

5 surge or spc (depends on grp) on body
5 trans on snb backbar
2 pirates
2 willpower swords

canot say its not working well. but im still thinking mageplar is kinda weak atm compared to other classes

/e also using the skeleton morph for no global cd when pirate is procing

DMG enchants? DMG mundas?
Both of those with light and surge should be enough damage on magplar. If you only have 1400 recovery, you'll need channeled focus + ele drain to have around the minimum 1800-1900 recovery.

It's very weak, but fixes to jabs will help.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=34743

that is she, although bars are not acurate anymore, im a strictly no cp player besides BGs but that changes next patch too

Takes forever to open on my phone. Can you select "view this build" and copy the link to that view for me?

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=34743

here we go

Beautiful! Takes like 2 second to load versus 10 minutes for the actual editor lol.

Your Stam is really low. Swap witch for tri food; you'll be at better health/Stam and increase your mag pool a little. At 3k SD you need a minimum of 33k mag to be effective against some hard meta builds.

But then again you are using SnB so you need the mag Regen . Tough call. I'd say swap trans for desert rose since your using mist form, swap witch for tri food, and see if that's enough stats?

plz dont forgett cps are dissabled in that view

but thx for advices i dont see myself blocking alot neither.. im playing with the idea to make dw restro staff out of it

maybe something like:

2 pirates
5 surge/spc
5 julianos/war maiden

backbar restro

Minno

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

holy ***.... thats going to proove my own testing on my light magplar.

2 pice pirate skeleton is awensome on her even with the healdebuff

That's because even with the heal debuff, you aren't popping BoL at full health. Usually you are hitting it at a point where you'll be making use of our mending passive which the extra healing from that offsets the minor defile a little.

If we didn't use channeled focus, restoring focus would probably be better used here since the 8% extra healing and 8% minor protection would offset that defile debuff entirely.

Even on live, I like the uptime on pirate.

yes i did really alot of testing of many different monster sets and offensive/deffensive sets
for me i came to the following conclution

5 surge or spc (depends on grp) on body
5 trans on snb backbar
2 pirates
2 willpower swords

canot say its not working well. but im still thinking mageplar is kinda weak atm compared to other classes

/e also using the skeleton morph for no global cd when pirate is procing

DMG enchants? DMG mundas?
Both of those with light and surge should be enough damage on magplar. If you only have 1400 recovery, you'll need channeled focus + ele drain to have around the minimum 1800-1900 recovery.

It's very weak, but fixes to jabs will help.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=34743

that is she, although bars are not acurate anymore, im a strictly no cp player besides BGs but that changes next patch too

Takes forever to open on my phone. Can you select "view this build" and copy the link to that view for me?

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=34743

here we go

Beautiful! Takes like 2 second to load versus 10 minutes for the actual editor lol.

Your Stam is really low. Swap witch for tri food; you'll be at better health/Stam and increase your mag pool a little. At 3k SD you need a minimum of 33k mag to be effective against some hard meta builds.

But then again you are using SnB so you need the mag Regen . Tough call. I'd say swap trans for desert rose since your using mist form, swap witch for tri food, and see if that's enough stats?

plz dont forgett cps are dissabled in that view

but thx for advices i dont see myself blocking alot neither.. im playing with the idea to make dw restro staff out of it

maybe something like:

2 pirates
5 surge/spc
5 julianos/war maiden

backbar restro

Could do mechanical acuity instead of julianos. Gives you stam/mag and another 129 SD. Then swap an enchant for Regen? Innate is another good crafty set for templars (aside from poor Ultimates). That would give you a similar max mag/Stam boost but instead front loads the 400 SD and gives a spell crit chance.

Otherwise you'll need Regen, either way (unless you have 1400+channeled focus+ ele drain).

Trashs1

yes thats are the other options...

Taylor_MB

Added a y/n list so you can chose which sets will be graphed. Seeming we've been adding more and more sets thought it would keep the visuals nice and neat.

@BucFanJKE @ManDraKE
Maces penetration and Reactive now added!

@TheDoomsdayMonster
I added it to the excel so you can play around with it.


The mitigation it provides is decent for a monster set...but all the class abilities (and the armour ability) to get major ward and resolve also have attached to them pretty decent secondary buffs.
DK: 12% Healing received + DoT or damage shield
NB: Passive, so don't even need to slot a skill
Templar: Magicka regen or minor protection + minor vitality
Sorc: Expedition + damage
Warden: Group effective + minor protection
Heavy Armour: CC immunity

So you'd need a pretty unique build to be able to justify losing out on these secondary buffs and a 2pc slot just for Mighty Chudan.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Added a y/n list so you can chose which sets will be graphed. Seeming we've been adding more and more sets thought it would keep the visuals nice and neat.

@BucFanJKE @ManDraKE
Maces penetration and Reactive now added!

@TheDoomsdayMonster
I added it to the excel so you can play around with it.


The mitigation it provides is decent for a monster set...but all the class abilities (and the armour ability) to get major ward and resolve also have attached to them pretty decent secondary buffs.
DK: 12% Healing received + DoT or damage shield
NB: Passive, so don't even need to slot a skill
Templar: Magicka regen or minor protection + minor vitality
Sorc: Expedition + damage
Warden: Group effective + minor protection
Heavy Armour: CC immunity

So you'd need a pretty unique build to be able to justify losing out on these secondary buffs and a 2pc slot just for Mighty Chudan.

Hmmm...

According to your analysis, me picking Mighty Chudan x2 is a pretty good decision as the idea is to "have my guard up at all times" particularly against being ganked or if a bomber shows up in the middle of my group unexpectedly...

And I do agree, missing out on the Templar secondaries is significant, but the abilities that I swap out as needed for that slot (Structured Entropy if I am Bat-bombing or Purifying Light for all other situations) I think make the decision worthwild...


Thanks again!

ManDraKE

@Taylor_MB love you #noHomo

Minno

@Taylor_MB I just want to say this is the best thing for the PVP community!

The information here will help out everyone looking to decide what defensive set to run for their builds (especially the write-ups for each set.)

Minno

ManDraKE wrote: »

pirate skeleton debuff was unpurgeable when the item set was launch, and AFAIK is was intended. If it's purgeable now, is a bug for sure

Yea I will need to agree. If it's going to keep that much mitigation for a 2pc, the heal debuff should be unpurgable.

But at the same time, that minor debuff completely nulifies any build adding minor defile sources (I assume that minor defile isn't boosted by CP from my enemy and therefore stays at the 15% mark instead of being increased by a ridiculous amount because of defile CP).

@TheDoomsdayMonster it looks like chudan on higher than pirate/chudan combo by almost 4%! I agree you do lose important buffs, but if you don't want to bother to cast armor buffs in between fights and don't care about farming for a helm piece, then chudan is matching close to other defensive sets that require 5pc to get.

@Taylor_MB on my spreadsheet it was giving me a 45-48% mitigation on pirate skeleton (almost 15000 penetration, 50% crit chance and1.75 crit DMG for my enemy with 20660 armor avg and 2500 crit resists for me How do we calc the minor defile into that? Even with that defile source, wouldn't take lock out builds boosting defile CP because there defiled is coming from my set instead of the attackers defile source? If so, would be funny to see minor defile as a positive in that you'll always have the consistent 15% less healing that locks out disease status effects and other minor defile sources lol.

paulsimonps

Minno wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

pirate skeleton debuff was unpurgeable when the item set was launch, and AFAIK is was intended. If it's purgeable now, is a bug for sure

Yea I will need to agree. If it's going to keep that much mitigation for a 2pc, the heal debuff should be unpurgable.

But at the same time, that minor debuff completely nulifies any build adding minor defile sources (I assume that minor defile isn't boosted by CP from my enemy and therefore stays at the 15% mark instead of being increased by a ridiculous amount because of defile CP).

@TheDoomsdayMonster it looks like chudan on higher than pirate/chudan combo by almost 4%! I agree you do lose important buffs, but if you don't want to bother to cast armor buffs in between fights and don't care about farming for a helm piece, then chudan is matching close to other defensive sets that require 5pc to get.

@Taylor_MB on my spreadsheet it was giving me a 45-48% mitigation on pirate skeleton (almost 15000 penetration, 50% crit chance and1.75 crit DMG for my enemy with 20660 armor avg and 2500 crit resists for me How do we calc the minor defile into that? Even with that defile source, wouldn't take lock out builds boosting defile CP because there defiled is coming from my set instead of the attackers defile source? If so, would be funny to see minor defile as a positive in that you'll always have the consistent 15% less healing that locks out disease status effects and other minor defile sources lol.

@Minno
Funny enough there used to be a bug that if you had CP points into Befoul the minor Defile on you from Pirate Skeleton would increase and you would get even less healing. I'm pretty sure they fixed that though. But might go on PTS to double check as its easier to test there.

Minno

paulsimonps wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

pirate skeleton debuff was unpurgeable when the item set was launch, and AFAIK is was intended. If it's purgeable now, is a bug for sure

Yea I will need to agree. If it's going to keep that much mitigation for a 2pc, the heal debuff should be unpurgable.

But at the same time, that minor debuff completely nulifies any build adding minor defile sources (I assume that minor defile isn't boosted by CP from my enemy and therefore stays at the 15% mark instead of being increased by a ridiculous amount because of defile CP).

@TheDoomsdayMonster it looks like chudan on higher than pirate/chudan combo by almost 4%! I agree you do lose important buffs, but if you don't want to bother to cast armor buffs in between fights and don't care about farming for a helm piece, then chudan is matching close to other defensive sets that require 5pc to get.

@Taylor_MB on my spreadsheet it was giving me a 45-48% mitigation on pirate skeleton (almost 15000 penetration, 50% crit chance and1.75 crit DMG for my enemy with 20660 armor avg and 2500 crit resists for me How do we calc the minor defile into that? Even with that defile source, wouldn't take lock out builds boosting defile CP because there defiled is coming from my set instead of the attackers defile source? If so, would be funny to see minor defile as a positive in that you'll always have the consistent 15% less healing that locks out disease status effects and other minor defile sources lol.

@Minno
Funny enough there used to be a bug that if you had CP points into Befoul the minor Defile on you from Pirate Skeleton would increase and you would get even less healing. I'm pretty sure they fixed that though. But might go on PTS to double check as its easier to test there.

I was going to assume that too! Would be funny if it still did (not that I have any points into befoul anyway lol).

paulsimonps

Minno wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

pirate skeleton debuff was unpurgeable when the item set was launch, and AFAIK is was intended. If it's purgeable now, is a bug for sure

Yea I will need to agree. If it's going to keep that much mitigation for a 2pc, the heal debuff should be unpurgable.

But at the same time, that minor debuff completely nulifies any build adding minor defile sources (I assume that minor defile isn't boosted by CP from my enemy and therefore stays at the 15% mark instead of being increased by a ridiculous amount because of defile CP).

@TheDoomsdayMonster it looks like chudan on higher than pirate/chudan combo by almost 4%! I agree you do lose important buffs, but if you don't want to bother to cast armor buffs in between fights and don't care about farming for a helm piece, then chudan is matching close to other defensive sets that require 5pc to get.

@Taylor_MB on my spreadsheet it was giving me a 45-48% mitigation on pirate skeleton (almost 15000 penetration, 50% crit chance and1.75 crit DMG for my enemy with 20660 armor avg and 2500 crit resists for me How do we calc the minor defile into that? Even with that defile source, wouldn't take lock out builds boosting defile CP because there defiled is coming from my set instead of the attackers defile source? If so, would be funny to see minor defile as a positive in that you'll always have the consistent 15% less healing that locks out disease status effects and other minor defile sources lol.

@Minno
Funny enough there used to be a bug that if you had CP points into Befoul the minor Defile on you from Pirate Skeleton would increase and you would get even less healing. I'm pretty sure they fixed that though. But might go on PTS to double check as its easier to test there.

I was going to assume that too! Would be funny if it still did (not that I have any points into befoul anyway lol).

Checked, it was fixed, it doesn't make the minor defile worse.

Minno

paulsimonps wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

pirate skeleton debuff was unpurgeable when the item set was launch, and AFAIK is was intended. If it's purgeable now, is a bug for sure

Yea I will need to agree. If it's going to keep that much mitigation for a 2pc, the heal debuff should be unpurgable.

But at the same time, that minor debuff completely nulifies any build adding minor defile sources (I assume that minor defile isn't boosted by CP from my enemy and therefore stays at the 15% mark instead of being increased by a ridiculous amount because of defile CP).

@TheDoomsdayMonster it looks like chudan on higher than pirate/chudan combo by almost 4%! I agree you do lose important buffs, but if you don't want to bother to cast armor buffs in between fights and don't care about farming for a helm piece, then chudan is matching close to other defensive sets that require 5pc to get.

@Taylor_MB on my spreadsheet it was giving me a 45-48% mitigation on pirate skeleton (almost 15000 penetration, 50% crit chance and1.75 crit DMG for my enemy with 20660 armor avg and 2500 crit resists for me How do we calc the minor defile into that? Even with that defile source, wouldn't take lock out builds boosting defile CP because there defiled is coming from my set instead of the attackers defile source? If so, would be funny to see minor defile as a positive in that you'll always have the consistent 15% less healing that locks out disease status effects and other minor defile sources lol.

@Minno
Funny enough there used to be a bug that if you had CP points into Befoul the minor Defile on you from Pirate Skeleton would increase and you would get even less healing. I'm pretty sure they fixed that though. But might go on PTS to double check as its easier to test there.

I was going to assume that too! Would be funny if it still did (not that I have any points into befoul anyway lol).

Checked, it was fixed, it doesn't make the minor defile worse.

Only thing left to check is if the attacker can't boost that defile (going to assume that is impossible since it's not their debuff, but never know with this game anymore lol).

paulsimonps

Minno wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

pirate skeleton debuff was unpurgeable when the item set was launch, and AFAIK is was intended. If it's purgeable now, is a bug for sure

Yea I will need to agree. If it's going to keep that much mitigation for a 2pc, the heal debuff should be unpurgable.

But at the same time, that minor debuff completely nulifies any build adding minor defile sources (I assume that minor defile isn't boosted by CP from my enemy and therefore stays at the 15% mark instead of being increased by a ridiculous amount because of defile CP).

@TheDoomsdayMonster it looks like chudan on higher than pirate/chudan combo by almost 4%! I agree you do lose important buffs, but if you don't want to bother to cast armor buffs in between fights and don't care about farming for a helm piece, then chudan is matching close to other defensive sets that require 5pc to get.

@Taylor_MB on my spreadsheet it was giving me a 45-48% mitigation on pirate skeleton (almost 15000 penetration, 50% crit chance and1.75 crit DMG for my enemy with 20660 armor avg and 2500 crit resists for me How do we calc the minor defile into that? Even with that defile source, wouldn't take lock out builds boosting defile CP because there defiled is coming from my set instead of the attackers defile source? If so, would be funny to see minor defile as a positive in that you'll always have the consistent 15% less healing that locks out disease status effects and other minor defile sources lol.

@Minno
Funny enough there used to be a bug that if you had CP points into Befoul the minor Defile on you from Pirate Skeleton would increase and you would get even less healing. I'm pretty sure they fixed that though. But might go on PTS to double check as its easier to test there.

I was going to assume that too! Would be funny if it still did (not that I have any points into befoul anyway lol).

Checked, it was fixed, it doesn't make the minor defile worse.

Only thing left to check is if the attacker can't boost that defile (going to assume that is impossible since it's not their debuff, but never know with this game anymore lol).

Shouldn't, I will assume that it works just like Minor Lifesteal. To apply your own strength of the debuff you will have to reapply it. So they can't buff the minor Defile you placed on yourself but they can reapply another that is stronger. The buff/debuff with the longest duration is the one that gets applied. Which btw for those that are interested is why siphon spirit will always override Blood Alters Minor lifesteal, cause the Blood Alters minor lifesteal is only 1s but gets reapplied every 1s as long as targets stay in range, which I guess will be really fricking easy now that radius buff though.

Minno

paulsimonps wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

pirate skeleton debuff was unpurgeable when the item set was launch, and AFAIK is was intended. If it's purgeable now, is a bug for sure

Yea I will need to agree. If it's going to keep that much mitigation for a 2pc, the heal debuff should be unpurgable.

But at the same time, that minor debuff completely nulifies any build adding minor defile sources (I assume that minor defile isn't boosted by CP from my enemy and therefore stays at the 15% mark instead of being increased by a ridiculous amount because of defile CP).

@TheDoomsdayMonster it looks like chudan on higher than pirate/chudan combo by almost 4%! I agree you do lose important buffs, but if you don't want to bother to cast armor buffs in between fights and don't care about farming for a helm piece, then chudan is matching close to other defensive sets that require 5pc to get.

@Taylor_MB on my spreadsheet it was giving me a 45-48% mitigation on pirate skeleton (almost 15000 penetration, 50% crit chance and1.75 crit DMG for my enemy with 20660 armor avg and 2500 crit resists for me How do we calc the minor defile into that? Even with that defile source, wouldn't take lock out builds boosting defile CP because there defiled is coming from my set instead of the attackers defile source? If so, would be funny to see minor defile as a positive in that you'll always have the consistent 15% less healing that locks out disease status effects and other minor defile sources lol.

@Minno
Funny enough there used to be a bug that if you had CP points into Befoul the minor Defile on you from Pirate Skeleton would increase and you would get even less healing. I'm pretty sure they fixed that though. But might go on PTS to double check as its easier to test there.

I was going to assume that too! Would be funny if it still did (not that I have any points into befoul anyway lol).

Checked, it was fixed, it doesn't make the minor defile worse.

Only thing left to check is if the attacker can't boost that defile (going to assume that is impossible since it's not their debuff, but never know with this game anymore lol).

Shouldn't, I will assume that it works just like Minor Lifesteal. To apply your own strength of the debuff you will have to reapply it. So they can't buff the minor Defile you placed on yourself but they can reapply another that is stronger. The buff/debuff with the longest duration is the one that gets applied. Which btw for those that are interested is why siphon spirit will always override Blood Alters Minor lifesteal, cause the Blood Alters minor lifesteal is only 1s but gets reapplied every 1s as long as targets stay in range, which I guess will be really fricking easy now that radius buff though.

But then if they apply the better debuff, that overrides the unpurgable minor defile debuff, that means I can purge the override debuff!