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[MATH] PvP Defensive Set Comparison (Impreg, Brass, Pariah, Riposte, + more)

Taylor_MB
Taylor_MB
✭✭✭✭✭
HvCDqon.png

~~~~~Introduction~~~~~

This is a no nonsense analysis of defensive PvP sets. Every major update is inevitably accompanied by people claiming set x is super good without fully understanding how it works into damage calculations. Sometimes assumptions are right, other times wrong. I've attempted to make this as user friendly as possible and easy to understand to empower you to determine the best defensive set to suit your build and to counter your most common opponents. If you want to increase survivability on your DPS or construct your unkillable tank, this thread has all the information you need.

Editable Google Sheet Link
Defensive Set Analysis (sheets 1-3)
Ultimate Generation Simulator (sheet 16)
Block Cost Reduction Calculator (sheet 17)

Video Tutorial and Analysis (read below for same thing in text)

TL;DR
Wizard's Riposte: The best set for any solo or small scale Magicka character (can no longer be back barred, however). Provides highest or near highest damage mitigation in situations where up time is kept high-
• Solo (as long as you don't excessively kite)
• Small Group (as long as your group doesn't excessively kite)
• Medium - Large Group (on tank only)

Impregnable: Superior stamina set when opponents have higher than ~55% critical chance and high penetration (good in no-CP, even better in CP).

Fortified Brass: Good in no-CP PvP where critical chance and penetration is naturally lower. Weak against nightblades.

Mark of the Pariah: Outperforms all other sets when less than ~68% HP.


~~~~~Tutorial for Self Analysis~~~~~

This box is the bare minimum that requires to be filled.
4bjMqq8.png


To assist you in determining these values you can utilise the three green boxes (totally optional). Modify the values in red and use the "Sum" to fill in the corresponding "INPUTS" values. Or simply make up approximate values without worrying about specific sources.
cQWJ5IQ.png


Your output will look something like this:
usGcLws.png
An important thing to remember when looking at damage mitigation is that a few percentage points difference between options can represent a significant amount of extra damage mitigated. For example if option A has 90% mitigation and option B has 91%, there may only be a single percentage point different, but that means option B is mitigating at extra 10% more damage then option A. Just something to keep in mind when looking at the seemingly insignificant differences of any of the blocking stats.


~~~~~My Detailed Analysis~~~~~

It's impossible to determine average input values with the wide variety of PvP in ESO. Duels, CP Cyrodiil, non-CP Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds will each have their own unique set of average critical chance, critical damage and penetration values. As such I want to stress the importance of performing your own analysis. My conclusions about set quality are affected by my own bias, I base my opponent stats on what mine are and subjectively adjust based on other factors (like how many NB's I verse, that increases the average critical chance and critical damage).


Wizard's Riposte
crsS3qy.png
Always highest or very close to highest mitigation. The 2-4 set piece bonuses make it the best choice for magicka users (excluding medium to large group situations).
Pros
• Virtually 100% up time (tapers off the larger the group).
• 2-4 set piece bonuses are amazing. WR gets all defensiveness from the 5th piece allowing utility bonuses 2-4.
• Group members benefit also.
• Can have active only on one bar and still achieve 99% up time.
• Applies minor maim on the critical strike that proc'd it (great gank defense).
Cons
• It falls into the minor/major buff system, so if anyone else is wearing WR or proc'ing minor maim (DK's, S+B users, frost users, Asylum staff users, NB's), the effectiveness of this set is significantly reduced.
• Only comes in light and arcane.
UTnYzQ7.png


Impregnable
SU6yPcX.png
The best all around defensive set for all PvP situations (primarily for stamina, but magicka user can wear just as effectively if another group member is already providing minor maim).
Pros
• All the defensiveness comes form the 5th piece bonus, which means 2-4 set pieces are great for your utility.
• Amazing against Nightblades who's critical chance, critical damage modifier and penetration are all very high.
• Comes in any weight and trait.
• No conditions to receive bonus.
Cons
• When versing opponents with low critical chance and low penetration (low skill zergs) this sets effectiveness is drastically diminished.
hXawGgd.png


Fortified Brass
nvZEcPr.png
The best set to use against low critical chance opponents (primarily low skill zergs in no-CP).
Pros
• Good for no-CP PvP.
• Craftable.
Cons
• Nightblade's are going to hurt even in no-CP.
• Performs poorly in CP PvP, especially against mid to high tier damage orientated players.
• Craftable.
l0lfhos.png


Transmutation (by popular demand!)
xvrtm8U.png
Is a good compromise between impregnable and wizard's riposte. It provides decent mitigation through critical resistance, very good magicka regeneration and superior large group utility.
Pros
• A tank set AND a regeneration set rolled into one.
• Group buff.
• Very easy to proc.
• Can slot on only one bar.
• Amazing against Nightblades who's critical chance, critical damage modifier and penetration are all very high.
• Good alternative if minor maim is already being supplied.
Cons
• Won't mitigate any damage from a gank until you drop a HoT (this can be avoided by having slightly more HP on your transmutation bar and bar swapping to force a heal).
• Less mitigation then other sets discussed.
• Light and arcane only.


Armor Master
gJrDi5T.png
Provides more resistances and an additional 5% HP.
Pros
• Extra HP.
• Good for no-CP PvP.
• Higher resistances then FB.
• Craftable.
Cons (+FB cons)
• Conditional to activating armour ability. This hurts especially now we can't slot shuffle and immovable and toggle between the two to keep this set proc'd.
• 5% HP only on one bar.
• Craftable.


Mark of the Pariah
ogDS1BX.png
Provided you can keep yourself out of execute range, this is still an amazing tanking set. Being able to take damage as a PvP tank is an amazing way to draw agro, then at ~68% HP it outperforms all other sets analysed, and only keeps giving you more damage mitigation (great combined with vampire undeath passive).
Pros
• Huge resistances.
• Jewellery drops in all traits.
• Good for no-CP PvP.
Cons(+FB cons)
• Have to take damage to receive 5th piece bonus.
• Heavy only.
t1vWsNZ.png


Blood Spawn vs 1pc Chudan + 1pc Pirate
f4s132c.png

Mitigation: In terms of pure damage reduction, Blood Spawn needs an up time of 92% to equal the Pirate + Chudan combination. BS likely won't help you in the event of being ganked, save for a lucky proc on the first hit. The very nature of a defensive proc set also means that it will sometimes be down when you get hit with an ultimate or an otherwise heavy hitting combination.

Utility: However, BS has absolutely amazing utility that PC sacrifices in order for 100% up time. The ultimate generation of BS (synergises well with a Dragon Knight) is unparalleled for a two piece and only just beaten out by the fifth piece bonus of Tava's Favor. The one piece stamina regeneration of BS also helps any build (apart from perma block).

Deciding: Does the stamina regeneration and ultimate gain of Blood Spawn outweigh the risks of it being down when you need it? If yes, wear Blood Spawn. If no, wear 1pc Pirate + 1pc Chudan. If you can't answer this question then don't worry, this dilemma cannot be solved by math, test them both out and find what works best for you.


Critical Resistance vs Resistance
Because critical resistance is not calculated as a percentage mitigation, but resistances are, there comes a point where an opponent with high critical damage modifier but relatively low critical chance would be best countered with a resistance set like Armor Master instead of a critical resistance set like Impregnable. Here is an example of this:

nswb4A8.png
*the values chosen here were done only to best demonstrate this phenomena.
**find this graph in tab "15 - Crit Resist vs Resist" if you want to play around with it.

So things that would effect this graph:
• Raising penetration will increase Impregnables' effectiveness.
• Raising critical chance will increase Impregnables' effectiveness.
• Raising base critical resistance will increase Impregnables' effectiveness.
• Raising base resistance will increase Armor Masters' effectiveness.

Ultimately, there are very few reasonable circumstances in which a resistance set out performs a critical resistance set against an opponent with high critical damage modifier. It is possible, as demonstrated here, but a slight increase in critical chance (5%) and penetration (2k) will see Impregnable beat out Armor Master up until critical damage modifier exceeds 1.95 .


~~~~~Calculations - NERDS ONLY <3~~~~~

The actual Google Sheet formulas are a lot more complicated then the ones listed below, as they include several IF statements in order to prevent situations like over and under penetration. Assuming resistance cap is 33150 and critical resistance conversion is /6800. Because the spreadsheet does not take into account CP and class passives, your actual mitigation will be higher then listed, but it will effect all sets equally so the comparisons between sets will remain valid.

Also for those brave enough to open this spoiler, I'm 99% certain my math is accurate, but if you notice any errors or something that doesn't "feel" right, let me know and I'll investigate. I first started working on this back when Morrowind dropped then forgot about it until CWC, so picking up and redoing the mess I made with formulas; it's possible I missed something.



Pariah Resistance =
5465 + 9414 * (1 - Current HP%)



Mitigation =
(Total Possible Damage - Actual Damage Taken) / Total Possible Damage

Total Possible Damage =
(1 - CRIT CHANCE) + CRIT CHANCE * CRIT DMG

Actual Damage Taken =
[1 - (BASE RESIST - PEN) / RESIST CAP * 0.5] * (1 - CRIT CHANCE) + [1 - (BASE RESIST - PEN) / RESIST CAP * 0.5] * CRIT CHANCE * (CRIT DMG - CRIT RESIST / 68 / 100)



Critical Damage Modifier =
Crit Dmg  - Crit Resist / 68 / 100


~~~~~Conclusion~~~~~

I hope this has helped people understand some of the nuances of damage mitigation in ESO and how it influences the effectiveness of our sets. If you would like homework give @paulsimonps Damage Mitigation: Explained post a read, covers the calculations a lot more then I did here. If you have any questions, naturally feel free to ask! Is there anything I can do to make this more user friendly? Did my explanations suck? Would love to hear from you!


Change Log
Date: Dec 2017
Change: [Forum Post] Added Transmutation write up to the forum post.
Description: Added pros and cons list for Robes of Transmutation in the "Detailed Analysis" section of forum post.

Date: Dec 2017
Change: [Forum Post] [Spreadsheet] Added resistance vs critical resistance analysis.
Description: Added an additional graph in sheet "15 - Resists vs Crit Resist" to improve understanding of some of the nuances of damage mitigation. Added written analysis to help explain this.

Date: Dec 2017
Change: [Forum Post] [Spreadsheet] Added Mark of the Pariah vs Fortified Brass analysis.
Description: Added an additional graph in sheet "14 - Pariah vs Brass" to help demonstrate at what percentage HP Mark of the Pariah starts outperforming other resistance sets. Added written analysis to help explain this.

Date: Dec 2017
Change: [Spreadsheet] Added adjustable Wizard Riposte mitigation value.
Description: Due to ZoS's funked up mitigation calculations, with CP Minor Maim rarely gives 15% mitigation. With CP this value can be as low as 10%. Added adjustable WR mitigation value in order to get accurate result for individuals CP distribution.

Date: Dec 2017
Change: [Forum Post] [Spreadsheet] Added Robes of Transmutation vs Wizard Riposte analysis.
Description: Added an additional graph in sheet "13 - WR vs Trans" to fully explore the difference in mitigation between these two sets.

Date: Dec 2017
Change: [Spreadsheet] Fixed a graphing error with "13 - WR vs Trans".
Description: Fixed an issue where Wizard's Riposte graph was not properly taking into account the changing Critical Chance value.

Date: 13 Jan 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Added Pirate Skeleton.
Description: Pirate Skeleton added to the spreadsheet for more thorough comparisons.

Date: 17 Jan 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Added maces penetration into the calculations.
Description: Allows for even more accurate comparisons by taking into account percentage penetration from maces.

Date: 17 Jan 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Reactive Armour and Mighty Chudan added.
Description: More sets added for more thorough comparison.

Date: 17 Jan 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Added "y/n" checklist.
Description: With the addition of more defensive sets, added this checklist to keep graphing neat and readable.

Date: 3 Feb 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Added sheets "Introduction", "16 - Ult Gen Simulator" and "17 - Block Cost".
Description: Introduction sheet to help people navigate the book. Ultimate Generation Simulator added to help people refine their builds. Block Cost Reduction Calculator (Dragon Bones PTS calculations) to help people refine the defensive aspect of their build.

Date: 12 March 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Fixed graphing error.
Description: Google Doc's update caused the graphs to still plot data points with nil value if the data label was not nil. Changed so the data label only prints when data present thus preventing plotting of blank lines.

Date: 26th March 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Added minor and major evasion options.
Description: Mitigation now includes evasion, thus giving more accurate results from more comprehensive inputs.

Date: 21st April 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Fixed graphing error.
Description: Fortified Brass and Armor Master were mislabeled as each other, this is now corrected.

Date: 21st April 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Added maces value to graph summary.
Description: Forgot to include this initially. Maces value will now be easily visible when taking a screenshot of the graph.

Date: 8th June 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Added set Ironblood.
Description: Just another defensive set to compare. Mathematically very similar to Pirate Skeleton.

Date: 20th August 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Added adjustable Minor Maim up time (for Wizard's Riposte).
Description: With the changes in Wolfhunter DLC it's possible for Wizard's Riposte to no longer give 100% up time, especially in a larger group on a non-tank. A slider has been added to accommodate this.

Date: 27th August 2018
Change: [Forum Post] Added additional details to WR given change in Wolfhunter DLC.
Description: More information added to keep up to date.

Date: 24th November 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Impregnable value updated.
Description: Murkmire DLC nerfed Impregnable to 2000 down from 2500.

Date: 24th November 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Fixed a calculation error relating to Reactive and Wizard's Riposte.
Description: Mitigation when Minor and Major Evasion uptime was non-zero for these two sets were calculating incorrectly (evasion was being factored in twice, but negatively, thus mitigation shown was under actual value). This has now been corrected.

Date: 12th December 2018
Change: [Spreadsheet] Added set Steadfast Hero.
Description: Just another defensive set to keep things comprehensive :).

Date:
Change:
Description:

Edited by Taylor_MB on December 12, 2018 10:50AM
PvP Defensive Set Comparison
Firestarter MagDK 1vX
- build and gamplay!
LagPlar Ranged Lag Proof(ish) Magplar
- build and gamplay!
ShadowGaurd MagBlade Group Utility Tank
- build and gamplay!
Oncoming Storm No-CP 11.6k Ward MagSorc - build and gamplay!
My YouTube Chanel


  • Taylor_MB
    Taylor_MB
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Y u no transmutation?
    Transmutation is there, but cause I was focusing on solo damage mitigation I didn't add a special section for it. It is a great midway between WR and Impreg though, for people who need more magicka regen and don't need as much mitigation.

    And here comes the Wizards Reposte nerf.
    Hopefully not! I admit I'm hella bias because I use it, but it does have significant drawbacks as soon as it's used in group play. Completely negated by anyone else wearing it and seriously diminished value if anyone else is pumping out minor maim.
    PvP Defensive Set Comparison
    Firestarter MagDK 1vX
    - build and gamplay!
    LagPlar Ranged Lag Proof(ish) Magplar
    - build and gamplay!
    ShadowGaurd MagBlade Group Utility Tank
    - build and gamplay!
    Oncoming Storm No-CP 11.6k Ward MagSorc - build and gamplay!
    My YouTube Chanel


  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    And here comes the Wizards Reposte nerf.

    Anything that produces maim would fall into this math
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
    Shepherd of Rot - Stamina Necromancer
  • TheDoomsdayMonster
    TheDoomsdayMonster
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wizards Riposte, Transmutation, and Impregnable all have one more significant drawback...

    When in an area where there is a lot of PvP and PvE (specifically the Sewers) those sets 5th piece bonus becomes even further diminished as they are all useless against the mobs there (the boss mobs in particular)...


    Although that weakness isn't exactly a PvP weakness, it does reveal itself when in the above PvP area and it is significant...

    Due to the specialized nature of those sets, I think they are fine as is and don't need a nerf...
    Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on December 5, 2017 2:27AM
    Unyeilding Bias
    PSN TheLordofMurder
    PS4 NA
    Magicka Templar
    DC
    The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s
  • Brutusmax1mus
    Brutusmax1mus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Xoxo
  • Minno
    Minno
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Best thread! I agree with Lexy, where's the trans writeup!?!? Lol
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Speed_Kills
    Speed_Kills
    ✭✭✭
    Good write up @Taylor_MB. My tests last patch support these findings. Impreg even outperforms reactive.
    Some say speed kills, I hope to be proof of that.

    Main- Speed Kills Redguard Dw/2h Stamina Sorcerer
    +9 alts
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Nice write-upp :)

    I´ve been trying out to utilize frost/ice-damage abilities in order to apply the chilled status effect in PvP (which gives the same debuff as Wizards Riposte). The uptime isn´t as high as with WR, but I get some slow and possible snare to it as well + I can use frost-staff to block when I´m out of stamina. Got to say I like it a lot :)
    WTB a non-bugged werewolf for at least one patch
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  • Trashs1
    Trashs1
    ✭✭✭
    truly interesting.

    maybe i have to rethink my def set choices...

    also i think bastion is missing here
    Edited by Trashs1 on December 5, 2017 7:08AM
    Dolche des Königs (DDK); EuPC, DC, Sotha Sil,
  • Taylor_MB
    Taylor_MB
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Trashs1 wrote: »
    truly interesting.

    maybe i have to rethink my def set choices...

    also i think bastion is missing here

    That one would be really easy to add in for sure. Two questions though
    1) Do people feel they can estimate a "% of damage received from AoE's" condition? Like 30%? I'm really unsure.
    2) Is the set additive with itself? So 25% reduction for AoE? Or multiplicative with itself (like other mitigation), so (1-0.05)*(1-0.2)?
    PvP Defensive Set Comparison
    Firestarter MagDK 1vX
    - build and gamplay!
    LagPlar Ranged Lag Proof(ish) Magplar
    - build and gamplay!
    ShadowGaurd MagBlade Group Utility Tank
    - build and gamplay!
    Oncoming Storm No-CP 11.6k Ward MagSorc - build and gamplay!
    My YouTube Chanel


  • kaithuzar
    kaithuzar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    So on a scale of 1-10 what do you rate my build as? (CP vivec)

    Mag nb
    Front bar: fear, lotus fan, merciless resolve, crushing shock, mage light, meteor

    Back bar: cloak, refreshing path, impale, healing ward, double take, lights champion (resto ult)

    5 - 1 -1 all impen (5 light)
    Front bar: 5 scathing mage, sharpened destro
    Back bar: 5 wizard riposte, defending resto
    1 pirate & 1 chudan
    2 tri stat enchants on helm & chest
    Witch mothers potent brew
    Apprentice mundus (spell dmg)
    2 recovery glyphs on jewelry & 1 reduce cost

    Approx mag regen: 2.2k front bar, 2.1k back bar
    Phys & spell resist while fully buffed, 29k ea
    ~54% crit, ~11-12k spell pen
    Fully buffed spell damage 2566 with spell dmg enchant on destro & scathing proc

    Health: ~23.5k
    Mag: ~36k front, ~33k back
    Stam: ~11k
    Edited by kaithuzar on December 5, 2017 9:16AM
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  • Grimlok_S
    Grimlok_S
    ✭✭✭✭
    kaithuzar wrote: »
    So on a scale of 1-10 what do you rate my build as? (CP vivec)

    Mag nb
    Front bar: fear, lotus fan, merciless resolve, crushing shock, mage light, meteor

    Back bar: cloak, refreshing path, impale, healing ward, double take, lights champion (resto ult)

    5 - 1 -1 all impen (5 light)
    Front bar: 5 scathing mage, sharpened destro
    Back bar: 5 wizard riposte, defending resto
    1 pirate & 1 chudan
    2 tri stat enchants on helm & chest
    Witch mothers potent brew
    Apprentice mundus (spell dmg)
    2 recovery glyphs on jewelry & 1 reduce cost

    Approx mag regen: 2.2k front bar, 2.1k back bar
    Phys & spell resist while fully buffed, 29k ea
    ~54% crit, ~11-12k spell pen
    Fully buffed spell damage 2566 with spell dmg enchant on destro & scathing proc

    Health: ~23.5k
    Mag: ~36k front, ~33k back
    Stam: ~11k

    10 Stanley Nickels
    Light Attack Hero

    Class context
    Stamplar
    StamDK
    MagDK
    StamMAGden
    Magplar
    Stamsorc
    Bow NB
    Bomb NB
  • Minno
    Minno
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oddly, using higher eneny crit DMg, pirate/chudan work better than both bloodspawn and armor master. Might need a writeup to explain the cons though because bloodspawn gives 1pc Stam with ultimate generation whereas pirate/chudan don't give any stats.

    Would also be interesting in add in CP mitigation values to see how these sets stack with all the information inputted.

    Otherwise really great spreadsheet! This will help everyone!
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
    ✭✭✭✭
    Well done good sir, well done.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • TheDoomsdayMonster
    TheDoomsdayMonster
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Taylor_MB

    Do you care to add Combat Physician to your analysis of Defensive Sets for PvP?

    Afterall, with the right build, it can completely negate 41k damage per minute in a PvP setting, now while that might not be alot in a big battle, its very significant in a 1v1 fight...

    And it does have the further advantage of negating damage from any source; unlike Trans, Wizards, or Impreg...
    Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on December 5, 2017 6:00PM
    Unyeilding Bias
    PSN TheLordofMurder
    PS4 NA
    Magicka Templar
    DC
    The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s
  • Drakkdjinn
    Drakkdjinn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    How dare you make so much sense Tay, how dare you!

    Q: are your brass conclusions/comparisons for their LA, HA or MA version stats?
    <Tertiary Meat> | <The Sleeping Dragon Inn> | <Fus-Ro-Die>

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  • deepseamk20b14_ESO
    deepseamk20b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    5 impreg 5 twice born star 1 kena, 2h/bow setup, all divines, warrior and serpent stone on NB is a solid setup and easy/cheap to get for use in battlegrounds. I run different stuff for open world but I fall back on this for BG. Good damage, good sustain, good survivability.
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  • Wreuntzylla
    Wreuntzylla
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why u no analysis my favorite defensive set, knightmare?

    You haven't lived until you and your 3 group mates wade into 5x your numbers with a tanky melee using knightmare.

  • kaithuzar
    kaithuzar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    5 impreg 5 twice born star 1 kena, 2h/bow setup, all divines, warrior and serpent stone on NB is a solid setup and easy/cheap to get for use in battlegrounds. I run different stuff for open world but I fall back on this for BG. Good damage, good sustain, good survivability.

    I've done the magic equivalent to that build. It's pretty tanky but I feel like it sacrificed either too much sustain or too much damage; it really makes you chose on mag builds
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  • Adenoma
    Adenoma
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    One pro that isn't mentioned for transmutation is that it is more or less strictly better than alternatives for magicka users that have access to minor maim. I've been testing a frost staff MagWarden build and transmutation + frost's minor maim is stellar. It lets me run a 5 piece offensive set and a master weapon with monster helm.
    Adenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma
  • Taylor_MB
    Taylor_MB
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    @Adenoma Good point will add that in! I did mention it as a WR con, but not as a Trans pro.

    @Wreuntzylla I'll see what I can do about adding that in on the weekend! (plus some others I've since thought about). Thinking I'll need to put in a list of sets with a y/n if people wanted it graphed, otherwise will get very messy.

    @Drakkdjinn Good question! They are just comparing the set bonuses with a stable base resistance value. So all the above graphs are assuming same resistance from armour pieces (all same weight). So if you take into account WR can only be light (unless paired with something else) and you want to compare with heavy FB, the results would look something like this :
    idKWhwd.png
    *18k Base Resistance for WR, 25k Base Resistance for FB
    **I don't think the armour values of resistance differ that much between light and heavy (not in game currently to check), but just to demonstrate the point

    @TheDoomsdayMonster No. The whole community has already explained 20 ways why CP is a terrible set, even solo. 41k over one minute is a measly 683per second. And because it is a damage shield, you are taking the full tool tip value (minus defensive CP but plus opponent CP (one specifically designed to do more damage to a damage shield)). In case you have forgotten, your thread is here where multiple people provided hard math so show you how bad CP is. If you would like to continue this discussion, do so in your own thread and not here. //rage

    @Minno That is because Critical Resistance is not a percentage damage reduction like resistances. So that is a good point and I will work in a mention of it. At a certain balance of mediocre critical chance but high critical damage, the flat resistance sets actually become better then critical resistance sets. I'll play around and find more solid values. EDIT I actually totally misread what you said and added a whole other section explaining the above, whoops, haha. But what you did mention shouldn't be happening...and I can't replicate what you are describing either. Armor Master has a higher Resistance value 1pc Pirate + 1pc Chudan so it should always be giving a higher mitigation. Mind sending me a screenshot and/or posting here and/or just editing one of the tabs to show what you mean?

    I've actually already done that (including CP), but I didn't include it in this release because it makes the spreadsheet waaaayyyyy less user friendly, makes inputs go from 6 to like 30. It also includes everything that effects mitigation; specific armour values of each piece, race, what type of damage you are receiving, skills. But ultimately I wanted to release this as a set comparison calculator, not a mitigation calculator so I dropped the variables that effected all the sets equally.

    @kaithuzar I'll admit this spreadsheet isn't really designed to rate builds, but I can make a few observations. 1) Your penetration is a solid high amount, even high resistance opponents won't slow you down. 2) Having 7 Impen (presumably with some CP also) will give you a nice critical resistance value, paired with 3) Your high resistances and 4) Wizard's Riposte, you are going to be doing a very good job at mitigating offensively built opponents.

    The only downside I see is losing some proc damage from not running Skoria or Grothdarr, but you make up for that with high penetration and high mitigation. I don't feel comfortable giving you a rating, but you would be a hell of a tough opponent to fight against!
    Edited by Taylor_MB on December 6, 2017 12:19PM
    PvP Defensive Set Comparison
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  • Trashs1
    Trashs1
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    nvm posted garbage :)
    Edited by Trashs1 on December 6, 2017 12:01PM
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  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    @Taylor_MB

    Maybe since you've tested this stuff you can answer something that has vexed me and others, we have never been able to get a consistent percentage decrease to damage from player wearing Wizard's Riposte.

    About the only thing consistent with this set is that it does not lower players damage by 15%. Usually somewhere between 10-12%. My hunch with this is that it is Minor Main is subject to diminishing returns, but whatever the reason, it's not 15%. Does your spreadsheet and program take that value as 15%?



  • Minno
    Minno
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    @Taylor_MB

    Maybe since you've tested this stuff you can answer something that has vexed me and others, we have never been able to get a consistent percentage decrease to damage from player wearing Wizard's Riposte.

    About the only thing consistent with this set is that it does not lower players damage by 15%. Usually somewhere between 10-12%. My hunch with this is that it is Minor Main is subject to diminishing returns, but whatever the reason, it's not 15%. Does your spreadsheet and program take that value as 15%?



    He used 15%. The cell for reposte had this for the equation:
    =1-(1-C34)*(1-C21)

    C21 is the cell that has the 15%.
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  • Minno
    Minno
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    Taylor_MB wrote: »

    @Minno That is because Critical Resistance is not a percentage damage reduction like resistances. So that is a good point and I will work in a mention of it. At a certain balance of mediocre critical chance but high critical damage, the flat resistance sets actually become better then critical resistance sets. I'll play around and find more solid values. EDIT I actually totally misread what you said and added a whole other section explaining the above, whoops, haha. But what you did mention shouldn't be happening...and I can't replicate what you are describing either. Armor Master has a higher Resistance value 1pc Pirate + 1pc Chudan so it should always be giving a higher mitigation. Mind sending me a screenshot and/or posting here and/or just editing one of the tabs to show what you mean?

    I've actually already done that (including CP), but I didn't include it in this release because it makes the spreadsheet waaaayyyyy less user friendly, makes inputs go from 6 to like 30. It also includes everything that effects mitigation; specific armour values of each piece, race, what type of damage you are receiving, skills. But ultimately I wanted to release this as a set comparison calculator, not a mitigation calculator so I dropped the variables that effected all the sets equally.

    I think you are right, Tay. Here's what I got for 1.7 crit DMG mod, 50% crit chance, 19000 avg armor and 2738 base crit resist:
    Wizard's Riposte + Resists 31.73%
    Wizard's Riposte + Resists + Block 72.69%

    Brass + Resists 30.14%
    Brass + Resists + Block 72.06%

    Armour Master + Resists 30.35%
    Armour Master + Resists + Block 72.14%

    PirateChudan + Resists 27.32%
    PirateChudun + Resists + Block 70.93%

    Blood Spawn + Resists 26.31%
    Blood Spawn + Resists + Block 70.52%

    And here's what I got dropping the crit chance to 45%, penetration to 10000, modifier to 1.6, and keeping the same resists:
    Wizard's Riposte + Resists 37.02%
    Wizard's Riposte + Resists + Block 74.81%

    Brass + Resists 36.44%
    Brass + Resists + Block 74.57%

    Armour Master + Resists 36.65%
    Armour Master + Resists + Block 74.66%

    PirateChudan + Resists 33.60%
    PirateChudun + Resists + Block 73.44%

    Blood Spawn + Resists 32.58%
    Blood Spawn + Resists + Block 73.03%

    For some reason, I saw 73% block mitigation whereas the others showed 71-72%. I guessing that was an error on my part. But what I'm seeing is that pirate/chudan is giving 0.44% resist with block over Bloodspawn at 80% uptime but almost an entire 1% more mitigation outside of block. If you drop that uptime, we might see P/C outperforming bloodspawn, but you'll lose the 129 Stam recovery and ultimate generation.

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  • Valera Progib
    Valera Progib
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    Great post, nice statistics, thank you! However, I think you made a big mistake regarding Brass, because you mentioned nothing about someone becoming "nervous"

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  • Kartalin
    Kartalin
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    Hmm is there a possibility WR is applied on top of damage reductions from champion points?

    Most full CP players run around 12 or 13% damage reduction from CP in both physical and magical damage, 15% of the remaining 87% gives about 13% further reduction from WR. Something that would need actual testing
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  • Minno
    Minno
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    Kartalin wrote: »
    Hmm is there a possibility WR is applied on top of damage reductions from champion points?

    Most full CP players run around 12 or 13% damage reduction from CP in both physical and magical damage, 15% of the remaining 87% gives about 13% further reduction from WR. Something that would need actual testing

    @Taylor_MB this is why I started to hint at adding CP to the spreadsheet. Might be annoying to inpliment and might make it less user friendly, but this would be the first spreadsheet that looks at all sources of mitigation that compares defensive sets in order to rank them for PvP.

    This will go along way in helping better players understand PvP; I'm still getting edit requests for my Templar mitigation Excel file even though I stopped working on it after seeing paul's thread, so I know the demand is there.
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