Official Discussion Thread for Weapon Ultimates

Apherius

STOP guys , i have the Solution , a very good solution , they have to ...

FIRED --> "somone we love and whose name begins with W "

Darlon

Humatiel wrote: »

A meteor with 3 enemies is less then 150 ULT and it still does 40% more dmg, then you add in the 2s cast time (we assume a 25k DD) and that destro ult will need to be triple the amount of dps to make it COMPARABLE to a meteor.

I think everyone agrees that the destro ultimate right now is crap, but Please, stop with the misinformation.

There is no 2 second cast time for the destro ultimate , it is an instant cast. there is just a 2 second delay after casting before the damage starts ticking. In those 2 seconds you can just continue with your dps rotation or whatever else you want.

AmericanSpy

Bow turret should not be single target, should randomly attack nearby enemies IF more than one.

Shield Wall needs an Ultimate increase from 85 OR Decrease in duration to 3 seconds, some builds would be able to exploit this and have up near 100% of time

Panacea is too weak, needs rework to be a TRUE Ultimate. If ability stays as is, at least should be reworked to include yourself AND allies. Aka a Breath of Life HOT version.

Just IMHO.

LinearParadox

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

I couldn't disagree more about Two-Hander, the thing that's OP and broken about it is the fact that it lets a Glass Cannon steal a Tanky player's resistance, and 8 seconds is a huge uptime considering that in 8 seconds without having to worry about defense as much they'll likely kill most players, and besides which the Ultimate costs not that much at all and can likely be spammed a lot, leading to significant uptime of that defensive buff. Admittedly it's not broken at all against players with low resistance, that's not the problem, most people have low resistance because they don't bother to have any since it's generally better just to go full glass cannon, so against most people this would be fine. It's against Tanky characters that it's a problem and that it's broken, and it really is.

The fact is that it takes far too much effort for a Tanky character to get Tanky for it to be remotely fair or right for a glass cannon to steal that resistance for themselves, glass cannons are constantly being catered to with this game's mechanics and now Tanks will outright provide a massive buff to their enemy by being a Tank. I cannot stress enough how profoundly broken that is, we work way too hard to be Tanky for it to make any kind of sense that our Tankiness should be used to buff our opponents to be as Tanky as us while still doing insane damage, and all with one cheap Ultimate that would already be one of the best in the game without that ability to steal resistance. They change their Build by equipping one Ultimate, and suddenly the thing that takes us 7 pieces of Armor and a conscious choice to use worse passives for more Tankiness becomes an asset to our enemy and next to useless for us.

They need to take away the buff to the user with the opponent's resistance, let it keep everything else exactly as it is and this will be an awesome new Ultimate that I'll be using on every stam character, but if this change goes live then Heavy Armor use in PvP will be dead when anyone using it is just buffing their enemies and losing out on damage in the process. When we reduce the damage of our enemies it makes sense to sacrifice that damage output, it's a trade-off and that's what makes games like this balanced (as much as they ever are), the need to sacrifice something if you want something else. But when we buff our enemies, have our resistance ignored by a hard-hitting Ultimate, and lose out on significant damage output... What the hell is even the point of using Heavy Armor at all anymore in PvP, ever? We lose out every way you look at it, that's not a trade-off to use Heavy Armor anymore, it's shooting ourselves in the foot.

And what's worse is that Tanks are already at the cap for resistance anyway, so stealing our enemies' resistance won't do us nearly as much good even against players with penetration, certainly not compared to the benefit glass cannons get. Even against another glass cannon they still double their resistance so it's always useful, and against Tanks it's outright broken. Way to make every player with high resistance a detriment to their team instead of an asset, as if Tanks and Tanky characters didn't have it hard enough already. And it's not okay for Heavy Armor to be invalidated in PvP like this just because most people don't use it, that's a reason to make it more useful not less.

So no, this buffing yourself with the resistance of your enemy has to go, it's broken and it's wrong and it destroys any opportunity for Heavy Armor to be useful when you're losing out on damage and resources just to get something other players will steal and make their own. If they remove that this will be an excellent Ultimate with nothing broken about it, and no extension needed on the time that the buffs last either, that built-in Immovable looks awesome and if it lasted any longer then this Ultimate would be broken just for that. Either way I'll be using this Ultimate, but if it goes live as is then all my PvP characters are going full Medium and are going to abuse the hell out of this massively OP and utterly broken mechanic.

So perfectly put I don't think I could've said it better myself, so I'll just add this: heavy armor(and any build using and relying on high resistances) is already borderline handicapped in PvP thanks to easily stackable armor penetration. Armor is not only CAPPED such that we get no additional benefits from having more, but we're also penalized for NOT overcharging it in the almost universal presence of players having a minimum for 10K penetration. Many have, and even brag about having, more. %pen with maces, flat pen with weapon traits, armor passives, champion points, item sets, debuffs, the list goes on.
And now you want to add this insanity into PvP? Where heavy armor was JUST becoming viable after years of being a joke? Come on.

Humatiel

Darlon wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

A meteor with 3 enemies is less then 150 ULT and it still does 40% more dmg, then you add in the 2s cast time (we assume a 25k DD) and that destro ult will need to be triple the amount of dps to make it COMPARABLE to a meteor.

I think everyone agrees that the destro ultimate right now is crap, but Please, stop with the misinformation.

There is no 2 second cast time for the destro ultimate , it is an instant cast. there is just a 2 second delay after casting before the damage starts ticking. In those 2 seconds you can just continue with your dps rotation or whatever else you want.

If that is true then I apologize, that being said harping on me for giving feedback on a pts feedback forum seems a bit overbearing yeah.

UppGRAYxDD

Just a thought, why not add a magicka morph and stam morph to each ability? As for my fav, just from looking at them only the S&B ultimate would be useful to my magplar....other then that STAM>>>>>>magicka on every new ultimate....maybe reduce the destro staff ulti to 150 cause no mag user worth their salt would use this over meteor...

Rex-Umbra

Have faith in Wrobel and he will provide.

Cinbri

Also would be nice to boost AoE explosion damage of Shatter Soul: fight vs zerg - kill someone in zerg with assault - proc nice aoe damage to wound rest of zerg.

Pandorii

Wrobel wrote: »

Guys, thanks for the detailed testing and posts here. Two major issues we’re acting on based on your feedback is giving magicka a more effective single target Ultimate, and improving the effectiveness of Elemental Storm.

Soul Strike is already a single target Ultimate, however it’s not as reliable since you can be interrupted or stunned while casting it. In addition to resolving the reliability issues, we’re also going to be increasing the ability damage to account for the fact that you’re more vulnerable while channeling.

We want Elemental Storm to remain expensive and focus on increasing its power level to make it worth 250 Ultimate. Expect to see a significant damage boost on this one.

We’re committed to making all of the Ultimates feel awesome and will continue to make improvements and fix bugs. Don’t stop the feedback and don’t stop believing.

Glad to hear that yall are listening to us, Wrobel!

I wonder though... I think a problem with both Soul Assult and the Destro Ulti is that neither provides a burst of damage (like Dawnbreaker). This is really what is needed to be able to take someone down before they heal up.

Pepper8Jack

Joy_Division wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Guys, thanks for the detailed testing and posts here. Two major issues we’re acting on based on your feedback is giving magicka a more effective single target Ultimate, and improving the effectiveness of Elemental Storm.

Soul Strike is already a single target Ultimate, however it’s not as reliable since you can be interrupted or stunned while casting it. In addition to resolving the reliability issues, we’re also going to be increasing the ability damage to account for the fact that you’re more vulnerable while channeling.

We want Elemental Storm to remain expensive and focus on increasing its power level to make it worth 250 Ultimate. Expect to see a significant damage boost on this one.

We’re committed to making all of the Ultimates feel awesome and will continue to make improvements and fix bugs. Don’t stop the feedback and don’t stop believing.

Good to hear from you. However, not sure you are totally getting this gist of the feedback from this statement.

• There is a near consensus that the destruction staff ultimate needs to do more than just damage. All big magicka AoE ultimates in the game perform valuable secondary functions that are actually more important than their damage.
• If you want to keep elemental storm expensive, fine, please make one morph single target and the other AoE. destro staff users want burst, burst, burst. Actually they want a lot of things.
• Please give it a morph that's actually decent. Automatic burning condition in no way qualifies. Maybe refund the ult cost if we kill someone, reflect all projectiles, or make it last twice as long. Wut? Those sounds ridiculously powerful? Clearly not, since that's the choices stam ultimate can get.
• Although it has not received nearly enough attention (because there are far fewer healers in the game than DPS), the resto ultimate is terrible inefficient and a colossal waste of resources. There is NO WAY I would ever consider blowing 125 ultimate to heal one single person for 5 seconds. It's overkill.

All very strong points that will hopefully be heeded with the changes adjustments they make going forward.

The introduction of weapon ultimates could tip the scales back toward balance between stamina and magicka builds, if done properly. As of now, these ultimates seem to simply serve the status quo.

Fingers crossed

leepalmer95

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Guys, thanks for the detailed testing and posts here. Two major issues we’re acting on based on your feedback is giving magicka a more effective single target Ultimate, and improving the effectiveness of Elemental Storm.

Soul Strike is already a single target Ultimate, however it’s not as reliable since you can be interrupted or stunned while casting it. In addition to resolving the reliability issues, we’re also going to be increasing the ability damage to account for the fact that you’re more vulnerable while channeling.

We want Elemental Storm to remain expensive and focus on increasing its power level to make it worth 250 Ultimate. Expect to see a significant damage boost on this one.

We’re committed to making all of the Ultimates feel awesome and will continue to make improvements and fix bugs. Don’t stop the feedback and don’t stop believing.

Good to hear from you. However, not sure you are totally getting this gist of the feedback from this statement.

• There is a near consensus that the destruction staff ultimate needs to do more than just damage. All big magicka AoE ultimates in the game perform valuable secondary functions that are actually more important than their damage.
• If you want to keep elemental storm expensive, fine, please make one morph single target and the other AoE. destro staff users want burst, burst, burst. Actually they want a lot of things.
• Please give it a morph that's actually decent. Automatic burning condition in no way qualifies. Maybe refund the ult cost if we kill someone, reflect all projectiles, or make it last twice as long. Wut? Those sounds ridiculously powerful? Clearly not, since that's the choices stam ultimate can get.
• Although it has not received nearly enough attention (because there are far fewer healers in the game than DPS), the resto ultimate is terrible inefficient and a colossal waste of resources. There is NO WAY I would ever consider blowing 125 ultimate to heal one single person for 5 seconds. It's overkill.

All very strong points that will hopefully be heeded with the changes adjustments they make going forward.

The introduction of weapon ultimates could tip the scales back toward balance between stamina and magicka builds, if done properly. As of now, these ultimates seem to simply serve the status quo.

Fingers crossed

Aww it's cute you this zos listens or cares.

Thraben

Wrobel wrote: »

We want Elemental Storm to remain expensive and focus on increasing its power level to make it worth 250 Ultimate. Expect to see a significant damage boost on this one.

If you want it to keep it this way, please consider a substantial stamina drain as a secondary effect.

At the moment almost all PvP raids are changing to stamina, as magicka based healing becomes a burden if there are 3 negation fields around you - it is only a matter of time until huge steel tornado zergs (that can sustain themselves well enough without any magicka based skills thanks to new sets and reduced pvp skill requirements) dominate cyrodiil again without any possible counter if the critical mass of players is reached.

The destruction staff ulti could be the soft counter to them, as the negation field was the soft counter to the deto zergs.

This, or you have to make the "drain stam/mag" sieges movable (albeit slowly). If nothing is done, some stamina skills which work fine in PvE have to be nerved AGAIN just because they are OP in PvP.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

Rykmaar wrote: »

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

1:destruction staff ult needs to be reworked. the one thing magica builds have access to is plenty of strong aoe ults. each class has a good one and we have meteor. the absolute last thing magica builds need is another expensive aoe ult.
also dawnbreaker does almost as much as meteor for half the cost + the dot sticks and is instant unlike meteor with a delay which makes it easily blockable.

in my opinion destro staff ult should be a very very strong single target ult OR (preferably) a powerful telegraph like dawnbreaker. obviously containing the flavor of each element. this is what magica builds are missing

2: as a magica pvp build that uses sword board ill test sword and board but most likely will want offenceive ults, although if the above changes were implemented id likely go back to using a destro staff on one bar for the ult

3:in my opinion dawnbreaker should be brought to 150 not 125, unless something is brought in for magica builds that is that powerful and cheap, like a destro staff ult!

Dawnbreaker of Facerolling will still be used often at 125 ult. It is simply too strong an ability to ignore, does far too much damage, and is very, very cheap.

It needs to go to 150-175 at least and the cc needs to be separated from the damage morph.

no kidding, thats why i said it needs to be at least 150

Shadesofkin

Thraben wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

We want Elemental Storm to remain expensive and focus on increasing its power level to make it worth 250 Ultimate. Expect to see a significant damage boost on this one.

If you want it to keep it this way, please consider a substantial stamina drain as a secondary effect.

At the moment almost all PvP raids are changing to stamina, as magicka based healing becomes a burden if there are 3 negation fields around you - it is only a matter of time until huge steel tornado zergs (that can sustain themselves well enough without any magicka based skills thanks to new sets and reduced pvp skill requirements) dominate cyrodiil again without any possible counter if the critical mass of players is reached.

The destruction staff ulti could be the soft counter to them, as the negation field was the soft counter to the deto zergs.

This, or you have to make the "drain stam/mag" sieges movable (albeit slowly). If nothing is done, some stamina skills which work fine in PvE have to be nerved AGAIN just because they are OP in PvP.

The problem I have with this idea is that it only benefits PvP. There is zero reason to have a stamina drain in PvE. Those powerful stamina skills should just be flat out reduced.

Now, that being said.

250 Ultimate is the cost of Standard of Might. Destro's Ult has to be comparable or it's never going to see the light of day.

As it stands, Meteor provides significant bonuses on top of the damage it provides including a morph that gives ult back, the passives which increase magicka and it empowers.

Basically if you're not going to make this do more than damage, just scrap it and don't bother giving Destruction an Ultimate.

Massive Regen while slotted
Increased Damage to Destro Skills while it's active (a poor mans Maelstrom enchantment essentially)
Magicka Return at the end of the Ults Duration.
Ultimate Return
Debuff on foes
Buff on allies or self.

These are the things that need to come hand in hand with the aoe of the Destruction Ultimate otherwise it's a huge waste of code.

Note: they don't ALL need to come on the Destro Ult, just figure out which ones are the best and go from there.

SirMewser

Wrobel wrote: »

Guys, thanks for the detailed testing and posts here. Two major issues we’re acting on based on your feedback is giving magicka a more effective single target Ultimate, and improving the effectiveness of Elemental Storm.

I think it would be cool if eye of the storm followed a targeted player instead of on yourself like bat swarm but I'm sure there are a lot who would go against that.

Paraflex

I would love to see the resto staff ult purge 12 group members and gives immunity to negative effects for like 10 seconds....purge is great in all but a larger target and better spell would be a useful tool for healers...doesn't need to block hard CC like stuns

leepalmer95

Paraflex wrote: »

I would love to see the resto staff ult purge 12 group members and gives immunity to negative effects for like 10 seconds....purge is great in all but a larger target and better spell would be a useful tool for healers...doesn't need to block hard CC like stuns

Lets empower the zergs.

leepalmer95

SirMewser wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Guys, thanks for the detailed testing and posts here. Two major issues we’re acting on based on your feedback is giving magicka a more effective single target Ultimate, and improving the effectiveness of Elemental Storm.

I think it would be cool if eye of the storm followed a targeted player instead of on yourself like bat swarm but I'm sure there are a lot who would go against that.

What happens if you put it on a guy and he dies with like 8 seconds left? Waste of 250 ult.

ZoM_Head

As a Dragon Knight, the destruction staff ulti may look cool and light up my screen. but when it costs the same as the standard of might, does more damage than the banner, but lasts 7 seconds less and does not provide 20% increase in damage, 20% lass damage taken and no healing debuff......

Can not see myself use it in PvE or AvA....well MAYBE in AvA from some distance, but still i would like several times before using it.

Khaos_Bane

Pandorii wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Guys, thanks for the detailed testing and posts here. Two major issues we’re acting on based on your feedback is giving magicka a more effective single target Ultimate, and improving the effectiveness of Elemental Storm.

Soul Strike is already a single target Ultimate, however it’s not as reliable since you can be interrupted or stunned while casting it. In addition to resolving the reliability issues, we’re also going to be increasing the ability damage to account for the fact that you’re more vulnerable while channeling.

We want Elemental Storm to remain expensive and focus on increasing its power level to make it worth 250 Ultimate. Expect to see a significant damage boost on this one.

We’re committed to making all of the Ultimates feel awesome and will continue to make improvements and fix bugs. Don’t stop the feedback and don’t stop believing.

Glad to hear that yall are listening to us, Wrobel!

I wonder though... I think a problem with both Soul Assult and the Destro Ulti is that neither provides a burst of damage (like Dawnbreaker). This is really what is needed to be able to take someone down before they heal up.

I am glad he is listening. What's frightening is that he thought it was worth 250 Ultimate to begin with ? Ans he thinks the resto ultimate is good? Come on!

Khaos_Bane

Can the resto ultimate possibly be anymore boring?

Djeriko

TO EVERYONE WHO WAS CURIOUS ABOUT WEAPON ULTS!

Check this link ESO Wiki has pretty much the best coverage of skills that I have found. elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapon+Skills

Khaos_Bane

Humatiel wrote: »

A meteor with 3 enemies is less then 150 ULT and it still does 40% more dmg, then you add in the 2s cast time (we assume a 25k DD) and that destro ult will need to be triple the amount of dps to make it COMPARABLE to a meteor. The odds of ZoS giving magicka based classes anything in the same timezone as an ult of that power is the day I start donating to zos out of the goodness of my heart.

ZoS will never make MAG weapon ULT more powerful than STA.

Armitas

Wrobel wrote: »

Guys, thanks for the detailed testing and posts here. Two major issues we’re acting on based on your feedback is giving magicka a more effective single target Ultimate, and improving the effectiveness of Elemental Storm.

Soul Strike is already a single target Ultimate, however it’s not as reliable since you can be interrupted or stunned while casting it. In addition to resolving the reliability issues, we’re also going to be increasing the ability damage to account for the fact that you’re more vulnerable while channeling.

We want Elemental Storm to remain expensive and focus on increasing its power level to make it worth 250 Ultimate. Expect to see a significant damage boost on this one.

We’re committed to making all of the Ultimates feel awesome and will continue to make improvements and fix bugs. Don’t stop the feedback and don’t stop believing.

Just increasing the damage isn't going to make it worth while. Eye of the Storm is great in that it follows you, but there are only two classes that can keep that storm on the opponent. Sorcs with Bolt Escape and Night Blades with Lotus fan. You still have two classes with broken magicka gap closers, the DK and Templar. How are we supposed to keep eye of the storm on our target? We can't, not reliably or safely and that means 250 ultimate wasted.

This wouldn't happen if you guys didn't secret lab everything and spring it on us at PTS. The whole ultimate needs to be scrapped and reworked, or at least give us working magicka gap closers. Or....

• Eye of the Storm - Works like an overload. Light attacks knockback and knockdown and heal you for a percentage of the damage done. Once you turn it on it lasts for 1m or until all usable ultimate is consumed. Heavy Attacks are AOE and work like chain lightning. The damage increases based on the number of players/mobs that are in the chain.
  
• Elemental Rage - This Ultimate is unreflectable. It summons a sphere that automatically teleports 4 successive elemental meteors in a 5 second window that fall down on the opponent doing burst damage. When the elemental meteor explodes it covers the ground with it's element for 15 seconds and does stackable aoe elemental dot damage. The dots will have a higher elemental proc rate than normal for a dot and always apply its effect while standing in it. The elemental meteors will successively fire in this order
  • Cold that always snares while in it
  • Fire that always triggers burning while in it
  • lightning that always triggers maim while in it
  • Amberplasm that drains magicka and gives it to you
  Elemental Rage doesn't have the burst of meteor but it's instant with no notification and pressures your opponent enough to switch from offense to defense. If you are fighting a melee opponent the elemental meteors will drop right in front of you so your opponent will either have to pull off or stand in 4 elemental dots to fight you. If this is PvE and the boss isn't moving he will be standing in all 4 damage dots for 15 seconds along with the damage from the 4 meteor bursts.

Derra

For restoration staff i would have implemented an instant rezz ability.

One singletarget full resources version. One aoe (6 targets) no resources 50% health version.

ArtOfShred

@Wrobel

Good to hear you guys are adjusting the damage on Elemental Storm. It's a really cool ability.

I also think it would be a really good idea to change one of the Dawnbreaker morphs back to magic damage for Magicka builds to use. Have one morph for magicka, and one for stamina. Lower the damage to the current Flawless DB value, remove the weapon damage bonus, and add the stun on both morphs. Raise cost to 150, boom. Done.

Although having Flawless DB slotted in PvE for Stam DPS is a big damage increase, Stamina is in a pretty decent place right now - now is as good a time as any to stop pigeonholing stam DPS into having to run Flawless on their main bar. As it stands I'm not sure if the extra damage you'd deal with Lacerate would actually beat out all of your damage being increased from the additional 8% weapon damage slotting Flawless currently gives.

Lord_Eomer

Rykmaar wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The Bow ultimate is pretty the same as Soul Assault, except it costs much more but allows you to move.

Do you think, movement is no advantage?

Why experienced player do not use soul assault? Because thry know its junk..

Bow ultimate is pretty much better comparing soul assault and its rane stamina ultimate, which is a great news..

The only way those two should ever be compared is if soul assault spawned a dremora to cast it for you, lol.

Yea agreed, currently thetr is no comparison..

BdCHighVoltage

or if it heals you and regen your pools absorbing enemy's soul, like dot ability

Armitas

Two hander...There is almost nothing you can give them that is exciting and will not make an already OP situation worse.

I tried to make two morphs that would be exciting but would not directly benefit the currently imbalanced situation

• Morph 1. Passive while slotted. When you get the killing blow on an enemy you are set to stealth for 8 seconds and gain major expedition for 7 seconds. 1 min cd.
• Morph 2. Passively decreases magicka costs, and passivley gives minor magicka recovery.
  The point of morph 2 being for hybridization.

Rykmaar

Armitas wrote: »

Two hander...There is almost nothing you can give them that is exciting and will not make an already OP situation worse.

I tried to make two morphs that would be exciting but would not directly benefit the currently imbalanced situation

• Morph 1. Passive while slotted. When you get the killing blow on an enemy you are set to stealth for 8 seconds and gain major expedition for 7 seconds. 1 min cd.
• Morph 2. Passively decreases magicka costs, and passivley gives minor magicka recovery.
  The point of morph 2 being for hybridization.

I think morph one is OP in pvp.

but morph two sounds great to me. Gives magicka a reason to even consider this weapon line.

Though, if they added a magicka morph to one or two active abilities in each line, we'd go a long way.