Official Discussion Thread for Weapon Ultimates

SwaminoNowlino

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

So can we assume weapon ultimate's have been finalized since no changes were made in this patch?

For the most part, yes. It's unlikely we'll be making any additional changes to the Weapon Ultimates, barring any outstanding bugs.

Please lock the thread since you are done ignoring our feedback.

This thread should end on this post...

But this implies that they are now listening to feedback whereas they were ignoring it and thus locking the thread would be counter to the comment... Tricky thing words

Dracane

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

So can we assume weapon ultimate's have been finalized since no changes were made in this patch?

For the most part, yes. It's unlikely we'll be making any additional changes to the Weapon Ultimates, barring any outstanding bugs.

Please lock the thread since you are done ignoring our feedback.

This thread should end on this post...

But this implies that they are now listening to feedback whereas they were ignoring it and thus locking the thread would be counter to the comment... Tricky thing words

Listening to feedback or only reading it, is a big difference though

Sureshawt

Dracane wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

So can we assume weapon ultimate's have been finalized since no changes were made in this patch?

For the most part, yes. It's unlikely we'll be making any additional changes to the Weapon Ultimates, barring any outstanding bugs.

Please lock the thread since you are done ignoring our feedback.

This thread should end on this post...

But this implies that they are now listening to feedback whereas they were ignoring it and thus locking the thread would be counter to the comment... Tricky thing words

Listening to feedback or only reading it, is a big difference though

Listening doesn't imply agreement, big difference

Dracane

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

So can we assume weapon ultimate's have been finalized since no changes were made in this patch?

For the most part, yes. It's unlikely we'll be making any additional changes to the Weapon Ultimates, barring any outstanding bugs.

Please lock the thread since you are done ignoring our feedback.

This thread should end on this post...

But this implies that they are now listening to feedback whereas they were ignoring it and thus locking the thread would be counter to the comment... Tricky thing words

Listening to feedback or only reading it, is a big difference though

Listening doesn't imply agreement, big difference

Not agreeing to reasonable feedback and not implenemting it out of laziness or "fear", big difference.

Shadesofkin

Devs, you threw us a bone with the Undaunted Plunder and the Revese on Lightnings Splash damage. For that I remain ever grateful.

That being said, you're letting the Destruction Ultimate go live?

Are you high?

No Dragonknight will use this. Not, a single one. For the same ult cost we can throw down a longer lasting, harder hitting and protective Ultimate.

Destruction Staves get passed over for DW swords by a lot of magicka users anymore, but those of us who rely on the Destro for our DPS would have loved to have seen something that wasn't an absolute slap in the face to the skill line.

I'm fully in support of a high cost high damage Ult sure, but 250 should be giving me buffs and debuffs. Whole time it's active I should have crazy regen, or some sort of powerful boost to my spell damage that stacks with major sorcery.

This ultimate is an insult to the Destruction staff line.

STEVIL

Well you know, its going live. Pretty clear while we may see a minor tweak thats unlikely and certainly no major changes before then.


So over time, especially as they head to U13 and the "balance" update and beyond, they will see metrics they will see how many folks have slotted the ults and how many use them and so on and so forth.

At some point they will either see the ults are OK or they need tweaks and adjustments will be made.

A whole lot of players not on these forums will see these ults and may find ways to use them or just discard them or most likely a lot of in between.

it will all work its way forward.

As with every update, take whats good and works for you, discard what doesn't work and evaluate and adapt and the sun will come up.

Leingod

Or they should remove AoE caps for the skill.

Derra

STEVIL wrote: »

Well you know, its going live. Pretty clear while we may see a minor tweak thats unlikely and certainly no major changes before then.


So over time, especially as they head to U13 and the "balance" update and beyond, they will see metrics they will see how many folks have slotted the ults and how many use them and so on and so forth.

At some point they will either see the ults are OK or they need tweaks and adjustments will be made.

A whole lot of players not on these forums will see these ults and may find ways to use them or just discard them or most likely a lot of in between.

it will all work its way forward.

As with every update, take whats good and works for you, discard what doesn't work and evaluate and adapt and the sun will come up.

Thats the problem with using metrics to analyse things like armor usage or ultimates: You will have a bunch of people using the destro staff ultimate because it looks cool and performance is of secondary relevance for them. This will lead to the arguable conclusion of the ultimate being in a good state (i would bet RL and ingame money that´s the explanation for the state of destruction staff in general).

What they would have to do is analyse if it´s getting used by top performers in pvp and pve - those are the people that choose skills purely by performance and not looks or character themes. The result would most likely be a different one (Edit: Obviously not for destro staves - it´s not like there would exist an alternative to using them )

Sureshawt

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

So can we assume weapon ultimate's have been finalized since no changes were made in this patch?

For the most part, yes. It's unlikely we'll be making any additional changes to the Weapon Ultimates, barring any outstanding bugs.

Please lock the thread since you are done ignoring our feedback.

This thread should end on this post...

But this implies that they are now listening to feedback whereas they were ignoring it and thus locking the thread would be counter to the comment... Tricky thing words

Listening to feedback or only reading it, is a big difference though

Listening doesn't imply agreement, big difference

Not agreeing to reasonable feedback and not implenemting it out of laziness or "fear", big difference.

Yea it is because now you are talking about what is called 'personal opinion', huge difference

Derra

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

So can we assume weapon ultimate's have been finalized since no changes were made in this patch?

For the most part, yes. It's unlikely we'll be making any additional changes to the Weapon Ultimates, barring any outstanding bugs.

Please lock the thread since you are done ignoring our feedback.

This thread should end on this post...

But this implies that they are now listening to feedback whereas they were ignoring it and thus locking the thread would be counter to the comment... Tricky thing words

Listening to feedback or only reading it, is a big difference though

Listening doesn't imply agreement, big difference

Not agreeing to reasonable feedback and not implenemting it out of laziness or "fear", big difference.

Yea it is because now you are talking about what is called 'personal opinion', huge difference

Can you point me the direction of the "destro ultimate is really good and i see much use for it" feedback?

Kas

i'm pretty sure the destro ulti is acutally quite good and will be used a lot. however, it's not what we would have wanted: it's (especially the follow-morph) gonna be a zerg ult and recreate true deathballs. together with the destro passives i guess we will see groups in the style of 1.3 and 1.4 batswarm zergs.

we just haven't see that yet bcause we duelled on pts and didn't brainlessly zerg through a campaign.

imho i would have really preferred a tyical whirlwind ability of 2h and a powerful, non-projectile single target skill that ignores spell resist for destro

Dracane

Kas wrote: »

i'm pretty sure the destro ulti is acutally quite good and will be used a lot. however, it's not what we would have wanted: it's (especially the follow-morph) gonna be a zerg ult and recreate true deathballs. together with the destro passives i guess we will see groups in the style of 1.3 and 1.4 batswarm zergs.

we just haven't see that yet bcause we duelled on pts and didn't brainlessly zerg through a campaign.

imho i would have really preferred a tyical whirlwind ability of 2h and a powerful, non-projectile single target skill that ignores spell resist for destro

Nice. So zergs can abuse it and the devs will believe it's good. Because all aoes become OP and deadly when stacked by multiple players.

So they will leave it as it is or even nerf it, so that it remains useless for single players.
That's why I wish, this ult would have been completely different in the first place.

WatchYourSixx

I'm surprised this thread has been so quiet since they said no new changes!

I did some testing on the PTS, with a cp 300 template. Here's roughly what I got for PvE, casting the ults individually.

Fire: 144k, 133k, 128k
Ice: 132k, 123k, 130k
Lightning: 169k, 150k, 170k

to compare to other ultimates.

meteor: 130k, 121k, 115k
standard: 136k, 132k, 121k

Also, keep in mind that fire and ice last 7 seconds. Lightning lasts 9 seconds.
In comparison, meteor lasts 13 seconds, and standard lasts 22 seconds.

The lack of utility really is the main reason i wont use it in PvE.. However, in PvP it's gonna be ridiculous. The burst is WAY higher than that of meteor, even the ice version. Only downside is it takes forever to get it. DK and temps probably wouldnt use it much. NB's get ult so easy so I think they'd use it often.

Lucius_Aelius

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

I'm surprised this thread has been so quiet since they said no new changes!

I did some testing on the PTS, with a cp 300 template. Here's roughly what I got for PvE, casting the ults individually.

Fire: 144k, 133k, 128k
Ice: 132k, 123k, 130k
Lightning: 169k, 150k, 170k

to compare to other ultimates.

meteor: 130k, 121k, 115k
standard: 136k, 132k, 121k

Also, keep in mind that fire and ice last 7 seconds. Lightning lasts 9 seconds.
In comparison, meteor lasts 13 seconds, and standard lasts 22 seconds.

The lack of utility really is the main reason i wont use it in PvE.. However, in PvP it's gonna be ridiculous. The burst is WAY higher than that of meteor, even the ice version. Only downside is it takes forever to get it. DK and temps probably wouldnt use it much. NB's get ult so easy so I think they'd use it often.

You said it yourself, no more changes. What's the point of giving feedback if they're ignoring it? And I do mean ignore because they have failed to even attempt to open a dialogue about why they thought these Ultimates are in a good place, apart from the Destro anyway. If they really think they're fine then they should be able to defend their work, not doing so implies to me that they have no defense and are just waiting to see exactly how OP they are using metrics on live before nerfing them, content to leave them OP in the meantime.

And that may well not be accurate, but with literally no word from them how are we supposed to know what they're thinking? I can't help but assume the worst, usually end up being right when I do.

Shadesofkin

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

I'm surprised this thread has been so quiet since they said no new changes!

I did some testing on the PTS, with a cp 300 template. Here's roughly what I got for PvE, casting the ults individually.

Fire: 144k, 133k, 128k
Ice: 132k, 123k, 130k
Lightning: 169k, 150k, 170k

to compare to other ultimates.

meteor: 130k, 121k, 115k
standard: 136k, 132k, 121k

Also, keep in mind that fire and ice last 7 seconds. Lightning lasts 9 seconds.
In comparison, meteor lasts 13 seconds, and standard lasts 22 seconds.

The lack of utility really is the main reason i wont use it in PvE.. However, in PvP it's gonna be ridiculous. The burst is WAY higher than that of meteor, even the ice version. Only downside is it takes forever to get it. DK and temps probably wouldnt use it much. NB's get ult so easy so I think they'd use it often.

I maintain that unless it gains utility it's a waste of time. The only benefit it has is damage. The 2H returns Ult if it's a kill.

If it did even 1 more thing I'd be down with it as is. Heck all I really want it to do is give me a huge boost to regen while active or return magicka when finished.

Contraptions

The destruction staff and restoration staff ults are still sorely lacking in utility. I understand ZOS doesn't want to change effects greatly since they would need to redo a lot of the visual effects. But at least stick some extra effects onto them.

My suggestions:

Elemental Storm, base version, fine as it is.
Eye of the Storm, fine as it is.
Elemental Rage, on top of the current effects, grants Minor Manasteal to all players standing within the radius, returning 5% (tweakable) of all damage dealt as Magicka.

Stamina already has multiple skills to help with sustain, such as shards and repentance, Master's Resto etc. Elemental Drain can help, but in most cases only slows the rate at which you drain Magicka. Using this skill would allow the group members to replenish their Magicka for the duration of the ultimate. This skill would ultimately benefit magicka dps more, while providing some utility to healers as well as other roles.

While most of the complaining has focused on the destro ult I would like to to point out that the resto ult is somehow even worse. Templars get a 125 cost ult which has AOE healing and damage reduction, while resto staff gets, for the same cost, a single target HOT, which you can't control who it goes to. It's like an expensive version of Rapid Regen that costs 125 ult and only hits one person. Do I even need to explain why this is terrible?

I really can't imagine the resto ult can going live in this stage. The effect is so poor that no amount of number tweaking is going to save this ult.

I suggest changing the effect to:

Base version: Summon a 25k (tweakable) damage shield around you and nearby allies for 10 seconds. While the shield holds it heals the player for 5k each second. Effect ends when shield breaks.
Light's Champion: Summon a 25k (tweakable) damage shield around you and nearby allies for 10 seconds. While the shield holds it heals the player for 5k each second and grants Major Force and Major Protection. Effect ends when shield breaks.
Other Morph: Summon a 25k (tweakable) damage shield around you and nearby allies for 10 seconds. While the shield holds it heals the player for 5k each second and restores 1k stamina and magicka per second. Effect ends when shield breaks.

Silver_Strider

Contraptions wrote: »

Snip.

I think they dropped the cost of the Resto ultimate to 100 recently.

Edit: Yep, from the 2.6.2 patch notes

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Restoration Staff

• Life Giver (Panacea morph): Fixed an issue where this morph’s heal was not being increased by the Restoration Master passive ability.
• Panacea: Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs to 100 Ultimate from 125 Ultimate.

Bakven

Congratulations Zos, you told every member who said the destro ult cost too much, was too weak and won't be used to go **** themselves. EVery single person who commented on that ult said it needed to be changed and y'all refused. you very obviously don't care what the players think and believe y'all know best. You continue to destroy the balance in the game and force people into cookie cutter builds. "play how you want" my ***.

If you refuse to listen to players, then why ask for input? Why have a PTS? and why won't y'all answer anyone who asks for changes that make sense? @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel how many more players will you ignore as y'all slowly kill the game and out right refuse to balance the extremely obvious balance issue that players have been reporting for months!?

I'd bet my acct. I'll either get no response or just a simple note about how I talked in this post. Either way I'm just wasting my time as is anyone who tells Zos they don't know what they're doing. It's not like we're the ones playing the game or anything

Zamuro

please make the 2h ultimate with some spinning animation, some bosses have it, players should too

Bobby_V_Rockit

A minor passive boost to the applicable skills while slotted would be nice. Otherwise I'll just stick with dawnbreaker over rend. One quick burst or 5% constant with a quick burst...

Czirne

Looking back this topic is ridiculous "worthless destro ulti noone will ever use" and "owerpovered 2H ulti"... well, maybe its good think zos does not listen to player feedback, it is mostly rubbish.

leepalmer95

Czirne wrote: »

Looking back this topic is ridiculous "worthless destro ulti noone will ever use" and "owerpovered 2H ulti"... well, maybe its good think zos does not listen to player feedback, it is mostly rubbish.

2h ult is still pretty strong most people just use db over it because of the cc and aoe open world.

A dizzying into 2h ult is strong.

SanTii.92

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Devs, you threw us a bone with the Undaunted Plunder and the Revese on Lightnings Splash damage. For that I remain ever grateful.

That being said, you're letting the Destruction Ultimate go live?

Are you high?

No Dragonknight will use this. Not, a single one. For the same ult cost we can throw down a longer lasting, harder hitting and protective Ultimate.

Destruction Staves get passed over for DW swords by a lot of magicka users anymore, but those of us who rely on the Destro for our DPS would have loved to have seen something that wasn't an absolute slap in the face to the skill line.

I'm fully in support of a high cost high damage Ult sure, but 250 should be giving me buffs and debuffs. Whole time it's active I should have crazy regen, or some sort of powerful boost to my spell damage that stacks with major sorcery.

This ultimate is an insult to the Destruction staff line.

ha

Sir_Xalvador

change shield wall i hardly ever use it as a tank, make it hit someone or something when you use it let it have some damage like the others.make it kinda like power bash...

Mr_Koh

I think the 2H ultimate morph that resets the cooldown should be changed so that it goes on cooldown if you deliver the final blow within 3 seconds of it being used. That way if it misses but you still kill the enemy right after you can still run that berserker build. It is too unreliable in its current state @Wrobel