Official Discussion Thread for Weapon Ultimates

itscompton

zerosingularity wrote: »

Please keep in mind Soul Strike is not a Single Target Magicka ULT in PvE, it is a waste of time. You also need to factor in the fact that you cannot cast any skills while channeling it, so while it may work in pvp, definitely useless in PvE.

The damage would have to be INSANELY boosted for it to be PvE viable.

I am fine with a pure damage buff for the new Destro Ult, as long as the damage is worth 250 ult. Right now, were looking at like 2x damage increase or more though. Remember that because of the 2 seconds before damage starts, this ult has less use in PvP. I suggest the 2 sec buildup is either removed or GREATLY compensated for with another effect (instant burst deeps for the 1st tick, or super snare/burning/concussion while in that 2 second phase.)

Also, keep in mind the stamina ults, that have some GLARING issues mentioned thus far.

They should either get rid of the 2 second build up or have the eye of the storm grant CC immunity for it's duration including those 2 seconds. Double the damage and give me CC immunity while I chase people around with my storm and I might just be tempted into using it instead of devouring swarm.

Lord_Eomer

susmitds wrote: »

The Bow ultimate is pretty the same as Soul Assault, except it costs much more but allows you to move.

Do you think, movement is no advantage?

Why experienced player do not use soul assault? Because thry know its junk..

Bow ultimate is pretty much better comparing soul assault and its rane stamina ultimate, which is a great news..

Rykmaar

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The Bow ultimate is pretty the same as Soul Assault, except it costs much more but allows you to move.

Do you think, movement is no advantage?

Why experienced player do not use soul assault? Because thry know its junk..

Bow ultimate is pretty much better comparing soul assault and its rane stamina ultimate, which is a great news..

The only way those two should ever be compared is if soul assault spawned a dremora to cast it for you, lol.

olsborg

The destruction staff and the resto staff ulties are not powerful enough, or "cool" enough for their current high cost.

sneakymitchell

@Wrobel

What about the resto ultimate? Can I heal 2 people and your self. Be like a breath of life but a smaller one that the healing is still a slow DoT in which it already is?

leepalmer95

sneakymitchell wrote: »

@Wrobel

What about the resto ultimate? Can I heal 2 people and your self. Be like a breath of life but a smaller one that the healing is still a slow DoT in which it already is?

You heal yourself + 1 other person.

Resto ult is fine.

STEVIL

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Guys, thanks for the detailed testing and posts here. Two major issues we’re acting on based on your feedback is giving magicka a more effective single target Ultimate, and improving the effectiveness of Elemental Storm.

Soul Strike is already a single target Ultimate, however it’s not as reliable since you can be interrupted or stunned while casting it. In addition to resolving the reliability issues, we’re also going to be increasing the ability damage to account for the fact that you’re more vulnerable while channeling.

We want Elemental Storm to remain expensive and focus on increasing its power level to make it worth 250 Ultimate. Expect to see a significant damage boost on this one.

We’re committed to making all of the Ultimates feel awesome and will continue to make improvements and fix bugs. Don’t stop the feedback and don’t stop believing.

The big thing is that it needs to be more than just damage. We have to see a return on magicka, maybe a MASSIVE increase on our Magicka Recovery after the Ult is done for 6s or so.

Just don't think that "damage" is the only route.

That is where we disagree. My suggestion above was for a massive magica refresh added to the base ult.

While some may dismiss sustain as appropriate for a "destro" staff it has passives that return magica and of course hvy attacks return magica and those are invaluable.

So to me to be not just another flavorless sack of damage, let it serve as a magica refresh on the scale of s second wind allowing its users to burn plenty of magica on high power offense then hot the ult for second eind and carry on.

Of course for some dps is all that matters.

STEVIL

Humatiel wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

unfortunately (endgame pve perspective) there is an extremely simple equation to determine if a destro staff ult will be used. If it does more damage then meteor then yes, if it doesnt better not to bother making it.

So in endgame pve there are no sustain, healing defense, mobility debuff or other challenges - only dps?

And here i thought i saw threads about folks needing tons of alchemy potions to run tri-pots for endgame in pve as well as pvp.

have to go ask why they are doing that if there aren;t issues with anything but DPS?

We're discussing a Destro staff so I will discard the healing/defense/mobility commentary.

As to sustain and debuffs, between alkosh/nightmothers/Infal/Sunderflame(if RNGesus likes you) etc etc etc we have more then enough debuff options for there to be anything else needed. For sustain I could see having the ability slotted giving you perhaps an additional ~10% magicka recovery(cost reduction?) making it somewhat useful then we can just flip to our back bar for the ult itself.

Every vet trial has some form of DPS check, not a "I want a 40k DD" but a game designed dps check. Because of that all that matters for a dps (mechanics/rezzing aside) is to do everything they can to provide as much dps as they can. I am sure this is different outside of trials of course (notice I put from a pve perspective) but inside a trial a dps that can suddenly cast barrier isn't doing anyone any good.

There are lotsa options for dps. If you need a dps ult for magica you ALREADY have meteor. Why have destro just be a different flavor dps dropper?

My suggestion above was to make the key uniqeness to the destro ult be magica return.

Iirc the starting point i gave was
Add to base ult
5% max mag return per sec including build.
Return damage as magica.

Eye of storm is fine then as the mobility sllows more damage and thus more return.

Other morph reduces magica costs while slotted.

Basically it gives you a second wind allowing you to run higher power offense burn magica then refresh once and thus for longer tougher key battles you do effectively raise dps or whatever roles you are burning magica to achieve.

Or we can just make it a bigger sack of damage and call it SUCCESS.

Cinbri

Do you guyz remember old time when Soul Assault was unblockable and was melting enemies. What a wonderfull time it was for this ultimate. #bringbackoldtimes.
@Wrobel make it unblockable again.

juhasman

If destro staff ulti stays at 250 so it'll have to do something devastating to enemies to be worth of that cost. Meteor cost 200 and if shooted at 6 targets restores 72 so it can cost sometimes 128 ulti and deal massive dmg. I honestly dont know how destro staff ultimate will beat that because larger area does not sound to be good enough.

Dracane

leepalmer95 wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

@Wrobel

What about the resto ultimate? Can I heal 2 people and your self. Be like a breath of life but a smaller one that the healing is still a slow DoT in which it already is?

You heal yourself + 1 other person.

Resto ult is fine.

I agree. I think it's strong enough. Can see it bringing much pain and despair in Xv1 -.-

Dracane

Cinbri wrote: »

Do you guyz remember old time when Soul Assault was unblockable and was melting enemies. What a wonderfull time it was for this ultimate. #bringbackoldtimes.

Yea. I was laying in bed last night and remembered, when casting Soul Assault would result in an guaranteed kill in pvp.
And read its tooltip.... "Burns enemy from inside" INSIDE, means you shouldn't be able to block it.
Pets used to be unblockable, resto and lightning heavy attacks, AoEs, beams. I think they completely overbuffed blocks during the last year.

Thraben

Paraflex wrote: »

I want to talk about Reso Staff Ults. To be honest as a healing Templar in pvp I don't like this ability at all. Its to weak for what you getting out of it. I would much rather use solar disturbance or aggressive war horn as those ults effect groups and are very helpful in alot of situations.

The resto staff abilities may be good in certain pve content but even than it sucks. I would sure how they beef up the resto ults as its extremely weak.

Cheaper cost? Nah not even worth it with a cheap cost
Aoe? Yea give the effect to multiple people, larger radius, longer duration

To be honest i hope they scrap the whole resto staff ult and start over.

How do you find Zakor´s idea, then? I posted his suggestion shorly before Wrobel´s intervention, so it was largely ignored

Thraben wrote: »

In the German forums we discussed what to do with the useless healing ultimate. Here a suggestion:

The new "Overheal" Ultimate for the Restoration Staff

We all know that it is hard to find a useful Ultimate for a healer when Barrier and War Horn are so damn good, and when there is already an abundance of AoE healing skills. Therefore the devs need ideas instead of citicism.

Here is the idea of Zakor (modified by me to make it viable for PvP) from the German forums which - in my humble opinion - is one of the best things I have read so far concerning the subject by a wide margin:

1. The new healing Ultimate is a toggle skill, like the Sorc´s Overload. All non-weapon skills can be placed on the Overheal bar

2. Light Attacks do the same as Combat Prayer (including its buffs). If targeted allies are already at full health, they gain a small damage shield for 10 seconds ("overheal").

3. Heavy Attacks causes healing waves to radiate from the player for the duration of the channeled skill. The healing waves have a radius of 10m-25m (extending with the duration) and restore 20% of the injured players´ life per second. The healer can´t move while channelling. If targeted allies are already at full health, they gain a large medium-sized damage shield for 10 seconds ("overheal")

3a. Morph 1: The heavy attacks free every healed player from any form of Crowd Control, and the healer suffers only a 70% movement penalty while channelling instead of standing still (so the freed allies can´t run rampage, since they will soon be again CC-ed because they are out of reach)

3b. Morph 2: As long as the Overheal Ultimate is equipped, all healing spells restore 0,5% of the healed allies´ magicka and stamina. Does not apply to the caster.

4. Blocking during Overheal causes the healer to create a frontal "ward" spell 7 meters in front of him or her, like powerful restoration mages do it in Skyrim (and sometimes in ESO). The ward protects allies behind it from all kind of attacks. However, every blocked attacked drains the healer´s stamina; and if the stamina is depleted, his or her magicka.

BdCHighVoltage

a little op?

RoyJade

I don't really like this idea for the restro ulti, but I like the reflection behind it.

Another idea (need some additional work on it) :

• Base skill : 1 second incant, 10 meters radius, caster-centered, 200 ultimates. Create a healing an rejuvenating area who heal all ally on the area for X per second during 5 second (less than templar's ultimate) and give major fortitude, major intellect and major endurance for 30 second up to 12 allies.
• First morph : also give major force and major protection for 10 second up to 12 allies. -> War horn without the additionnal health/magicka/stamina, but with more regens and lesser cost.
• Second morph : incantation removed, bu channel added. Cost X ultimate per second. Make you immune to all CC and snare, but you are slowed during the channel (50%). Create a healing shield who heal allies for X per second and give them major fortitude, intellect, endurance and protection while under the shield, along with giving a snare immunization. -> A more PVP morph who is intended to help the group moving slowly under the enemy fire. Need some serious tweak to make it competitive, I think.

Docmandu

Wrobel wrote: »

Soul Strike is already a single target Ultimate, however it’s not as reliable since you can be interrupted or stunned while casting it. In addition to resolving the reliability issues, we’re also going to be increasing the ability damage to account for the fact that you’re more vulnerable while channeling.

Inc. Radiant Destruction 2.0 for every class!

Docmandu

Wrobel wrote: »

and fix bugs. Don’t stop the feedback and don’t stop believing.

Have you heard about the "in-combat" bug yet?! /sarcasm

I wanna believe!

Aquanova

The destro staff ultimate is a bad joke right now. It's basically a crappie version of dks standard without any of the the things that actually make it desirable to use (heal debuffs, buff to self heals) and it costs the same ridiculous amount of ultimate.

Why not give it a strong single target ultimate like the 2h line? Just make it the magical version of the 2h ultimate.

That would actually be useful. Currently this and the resto staff ultimates are LOL.

Mady

Well.... 250 ultimate. I hope the damage boost is so good that we get 10k damage every second.... In PvP..... jk.

Let's wait and see.

Rykmaar

Aquanova wrote: »

The destro staff ultimate is a bad joke right now. It's basically a crappie version of dks standard without any of the the things that actually make it desirable to use (heal debuffs, buff to self heals) and it costs the same ridiculous amount of ultimate.

Why not give it a strong single target ultimate like the 2h line? Just make it the magical version of the 2h ultimate.

That would actually be useful. Currently this and the resto staff ultimates are LOL.

Wrobel thinks the destro ult is fine as AoE --- for some reason that no one here quite understands. Instead he wants to buff soul assault.

lol


Idk if we're even looking at the same game. Soul assault has no synergy with elemental damage.

Contraptions

Now we know that destro ult is going to get buffed (thanks for the communication @Wrobel ) can we also give the resto ult some love? A HOT isn't exactly very worth it compared to temp's healing radius ult which again, provides utility such as reduced damage and other effects.

May I suggest a healing AOE that sticks to you (similar to morph of destro ult that sticks to you) and grants you and your targets major expedition/major protection?

Joy_Division

leepalmer95 wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

@Wrobel

What about the resto ultimate? Can I heal 2 people and your self. Be like a breath of life but a smaller one that the healing is still a slow DoT in which it already is?

You heal yourself + 1 other person.

Resto ult is fine.

That's not what the description says.

Cronopoly

Negotiating 101. Ask for something ridiculous, then settle for what you actually wanted. PVP Centric discussion.

2H Ultimate "Onslaught" : 4 Effects+Low Cost - (Damage, Bypassing Resists, Steal Resists, Refund Ult)
Is this the devs giving the ridiculous offering thinking in the end they may drop 1 aspect of it? or none? We shall see. Personally I'm expecting it to fully survive as is. We'll see

Destro Ultimate
Max Cost, Lower Damage than Meteor
Now that everyone has flipped out on the ridiculous offering for the cost. They'll do something as Wrobel has advised. However will this be PVE useful only? With Meteor will that continue to be the PVP meta Ult for Magicka? We don't have any specific on this at this time on what is to be adjusted exactly. I'm expecting to see a PVE more useful effect delivered. Again we'll see.

shrb

Well... maybe soul strike can get a morph that summons a tiny Sheogorath to channel it for you, akin to bow turret^^ one can only hope:D

SorataArisugawa

shrb wrote: »

Well... maybe soul strike can get a morph that summons a tiny Sheogorath to channel it for you, akin to bow turret^^ one can only hope:D

Why a tiny? Make it a big one!

Darlon

Let's see what they make of this...

timidobserver

Docmandu wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Soul Strike is already a single target Ultimate, however it’s not as reliable since you can be interrupted or stunned while casting it. In addition to resolving the reliability issues, we’re also going to be increasing the ability damage to account for the fact that you’re more vulnerable while channeling.

Inc. Radiant Destruction 2.0 for every class!

Soul Strike will never be as hard to deal with as RD. One interrupt, cleanse, or LOS and a whole ultimate is wasted. RD can just be recasted. The only upside is that Soul Strike does full damage regardless of health percentage.

Silver_Strider

Honestly, if they're going to keep the Destro Ultimate at 250, it really needs to do a lot more than just damage, unless it's more than double what other Ultimates can do
Let's compare the Destro Ultimate to some of the other 250 costing Ultimates

DK Standard - Reduces damage, Increase damage done, Synergy for more damage and a root effect.
Nova - Reduces damage, Snares, Synergy for more damage and stun

Then we have cheaper Ultimates that are just generally more useful than the Destro staff Ultimate

Negate Magic - Stuns/Silence, Heals/Does Damage
Veil of Blades - Reduces damage, Snares, Synergy for Heal (and invisibility but not important)
Meteor - Stuns, Refunds Ultimate

And this is all not including the passives associated with said Ultimate either, just exacerbating the issue of how badly the Destro Ultimate truly is. It should have element effects by default, potentially snare/burn/concuss the enemy, add vulnerability, ANYTHING to make it more desirable and worth using.

As for the Resto staff Ultimate, let it hit 4 people minimum. A Single Target overheal is totally unwarranted for the Restostaff Ultimate, considering that all classes, except DK, have better Healing Ultimates that are AoE and offer some utility, be it reduced damage, a stun, or a synergy for more damage/healing.

Yes, the major force/protection buff is nice but major force can be gotten thru Warhorn and that effect everyone and would generally be preferred as even if you can can cast 2 Resto Ultimate before 1 Warhorn, you still give that buff to more than 2 people. As for Life Giver, that morph is just all sorts of bad. With how wonky Regeneration currently is, you'd probably not give it to the players you'd want, Combat Prayer only works if you're properly aligned and within range to give the buff and Healing Ward is useless if the target is already at full health, which will most likely be the case between any HoTs already on them as well as the previously casted Combat Prayer and Regen.

Anti_Virus

Wrobel wrote: »

Guys, thanks for the detailed testing and posts here. Two major issues we’re acting on based on your feedback is giving magicka a more effective single target Ultimate, and improving the effectiveness of Elemental Storm.

Soul Strike is already a single target Ultimate, however it’s not as reliable since you can be interrupted or stunned while casting it. In addition to resolving the reliability issues, we’re also going to be increasing the ability damage to account for the fact that you’re more vulnerable while channeling.

We want Elemental Storm to remain expensive and focus on increasing its power level to make it worth 250 Ultimate. Expect to see a significant damage boost on this one.

We’re committed to making all of the Ultimates feel awesome and will continue to make improvements and fix bugs. Don’t stop the feedback and don’t stop believing.

Hurricane Wrobel is HERE!

Humatiel

A meteor with 3 enemies is less then 150 ULT and it still does 40% more dmg, then you add in the 2s cast time (we assume a 25k DD) and that destro ult will need to be triple the amount of dps to make it COMPARABLE to a meteor. The odds of ZoS giving magicka based classes anything in the same timezone as an ult of that power is the day I start donating to zos out of the goodness of my heart.