Official Discussion Thread for Weapon Ultimates

Lord_Eomer

Checked restoration staff ultimate, its not worth at all.

My Templar will still be using War Horn which is far more better choice for trials.

You should think about improving this ultimate or else its just another useless for Healers.

Stamina have wonderful 4 ultimates but what happened to only 2 magicka ultimates? Magicka is literally now struggling over stamina..

Pandorii

ArtOfShred wrote: »

@Wrobel

Good to hear you guys are adjusting the damage on Elemental Storm. It's a really cool ability.

I also think it would be a really good idea to change one of the Dawnbreaker morphs back to magic damage for Magicka builds to use. Have one morph for magicka, and one for stamina. Lower the damage to the current Flawless DB value, remove the weapon damage bonus, and add the stun on both morphs. Raise cost to 150, boom. Done.

Although having Flawless DB slotted in PvE for Stam DPS is a big damage increase, Stamina is in a pretty decent place right now - now is as good a time as any to stop pigeonholing stam DPS into having to run Flawless on their main bar. As it stands I'm not sure if the extra damage you'd deal with Lacerate would actually beat out all of your damage being increased from the additional 8% weapon damage slotting Flawless currently gives.

I think you're coming on to something here. DB is particularly ruthless in PvP because of its low cost and that it can be animation cancelled. I don't typically support 'nerfs', but I'd love to see more discussion on this idea.

Dracane

Alright guys. The promised elemental storm buff turned out to be one of these beloved nerf-buffs again.
You get something and something else is taking away, resulting in a Quid Pro Quo.

They doubled the damage per tick. I wish the patchnoted would have ended after this.
But no Duration was decreased from 10 seconds to 6 seconds.
Guess what ? The damage per cast is only 20% higher than before.
And this is still not enough for an ultimate that costs 250, has no CC and no utility.

Rykmaar

Destruction Staff
Impulse: Fixed an issue where Rank 1 of this ability could not critically strike.
Elemental Storm:
Decreased the length of time for this Ultimate to 6 seconds from 10 seconds.
Doubled the damage done per hit.
Icy Rage will now immobilize targets affected by the storm instead of granting a 100% chance to apply a chilled effect.
Fiery Rage now deals 10% additional damage instead of granting a 100% chance to apply a burning effect.
Thunderous Rage now increases this ability’s duration by 2 seconds instead of granting a 100% chance to apply concussion.


World
Soul Magic
Shatter Soul (Soul Strike morph): Increased the explosion damage by 50%.
Soul Strike:
This ability can no longer can be purged or interrupted, but can now be blocked.
You will now be immune to CC while channeling this ability.
Increased the damage from this ability by 15%.
This ability now prevents your target from entering stealth and invisibility for 2 seconds.


These are the new changes, everyone.

Sad doesn't begin to describe this.

The ultimate cost is a huge factor in this being unusable. In the time that magicka builds build enough ult to use this, stamina builds can almost drop 2 Dawnbreakers on us and definitely 2 berserker strikes. No one is going to use this ult over Meteor @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

Plus, it looks like you didn't touch the 2h ult?

That is unbelievable.

RoyJade

2.6.1 here, and nearly nothing change.
Elemental storm get a doubled damage per tick, but a 6 second duration instead of 10 second, resulting on a 20% increased overall damage. Yay.
The fire rage is nerfed (no more 100% burned and still 10% more damage, nothing more), the thunder rage is slightly boosted (no more 100% concussion and still 2 more second, but the doubled damage is good for the 2 more second), and the frost rage is greatly boosted (still 25 ultimate cost reduction and perma-root for every enemies inside).

Actually, the thunder version is the strongest one for pve, and the frost one the only slightly useful for pvp.

With a template without any passive and cp, the thunder morph deal more damage than shooting star (34240 versus 30491) and even than ice comet (31221), but with the 50 less ultimate cost meteor still does more damage. With far better passives and utilities, plus a burst component.

Flaminir

@Wrobel
As the only thing that the destro staff ulti does is provide direct damage with no other effects at all (Shock & fire) I would like the question answered:

Why would I ever slot this over Meteor which provides far higher damage along with several other effects?

As you have given it literally no other features in PvE other than damage, you have designed an ultimate which will never be used.

Aliniel

Why not make the Destro Staff ultimate a buff?

Something like this:
"Break down the boundaries between the elements! Increase you Damage of Fire, Frost and Shock damage by [X]% for [D] seconds. During this each time you deal damage with an element you also deal [Y]% of that damage by the other two elements. Chances for applying elemental debuffs is also doubled." Or maybe also add something like: "You lose all your magicka but your elemental spells costs are reduced by 100% and each time you deal damage with an element you are restored [V]% of the damage as a magicka." The possibilities are endless. It doesn't have to be a direct damage ability. This kind of ultimate could be very interesting as well.

Glantir

Dracane wrote: »

Alright guys. The promised elemental storm buff turned out to be one of these beloved nerf-buffs again.
You get something and something else is taking away, resulting in a Quid Pro Quo.

They doubled the damage per tick. I wish the patchnoted would have ended after this.
But no Duration was decreased from 10 seconds to 6 seconds.
Guess what ? The damage per cast is only 20% higher than before.
And this is still not enough for an ultimate that costs 250, has no CC and no utility.

@Dracane

There is no nerf, the dmg is increased by 100% and the duration ist decreased by 40% (20% with lightning), so on the whole the dmg is slightly increased. There is still time for ZOS to do some fine tuning
The Patchnotes says dmg is doubled, where you have the information that is only increased by 20%?

Dracane

Glantir wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright guys. The promised elemental storm buff turned out to be one of these beloved nerf-buffs again.
You get something and something else is taking away, resulting in a Quid Pro Quo.

They doubled the damage per tick. I wish the patchnoted would have ended after this.
But no Duration was decreased from 10 seconds to 6 seconds.
Guess what ? The damage per cast is only 20% higher than before.
And this is still not enough for an ultimate that costs 250, has no CC and no utility.

@Dracane

There is no nerf, the dmg is increased by 100% and the duration ist decreased by 40% (20% with lightning), so on the whole the dmg is slightly increased. There is still time for ZOS to do some fine tuning
The Patchnotes says dmg is doubled, where you have the information that is only increased by 20%?

Simple math.

2000 tick per second for 10 seconds is 20 000 damage
4000 tick per second for 6 seconds is 24 000 damage

4000 is the difference, 4000 is 20% from 20 000.
It's a bit overall, but it gives you an good idea on what actually changed.

It's only 20% more damage per cast. But Having a longer duration could result in other benefits. Such as elemental procs, set procs like skoria etc etc.
So it's really not a good change.

sadownik

Glantir wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright guys. The promised elemental storm buff turned out to be one of these beloved nerf-buffs again.
You get something and something else is taking away, resulting in a Quid Pro Quo.

They doubled the damage per tick. I wish the patchnoted would have ended after this.
But no Duration was decreased from 10 seconds to 6 seconds.
Guess what ? The damage per cast is only 20% higher than before.
And this is still not enough for an ultimate that costs 250, has no CC and no utility.

@Dracane

There is no nerf, the dmg is increased by 100% and the duration ist decreased by 40% (20% with lightning), so on the whole the dmg is slightly increased. There is still time for ZOS to do some fine tuning
The Patchnotes says dmg is doubled, where you have the information that is only increased by 20%?

Im sorry but ... are you awake? If skill does lets say 100 dmg per tick for 10 sec. and you change it to 200 dmg for 6 s where do you see 100%?

Glantir

100% more per tick not on the whole skill dude, sorry I didnt say that clear enough ^^

fr33r4ng3r

So yeah. Just tried the reworked destro ultimate on a boss in normal maelstrom so get a feel for it. Completely underwhelming performance, and I could only use it once during the fight due to the high cost. It's too expensive and really should do more (eg. status effects). Also 6 seconds is too short. Ice comet all the way as far as one offs are concerned.

Sadly though I'm stuck with Energy Overload for any kind of decent DPS single target. Resource recovery while still doing decent DPS is a huge factor in beating the vMA dps race on a magicka sorc.

I'm seriously considering respeccing as a stam sorc now. That gear grind / cost though...

SanTii.92

Could you stop comparing it with meteor, have you all forgot how easily countered can be?
Also stop mentioning how op stamina ults are, there is only one over the top and is the shield one. Ridiculous.

Feedback: Agreed with some, 250 ult cost is way too high. 200 or 175 feels more appropriated now that duration is shorter.

RoyJade

Meteor is THE pve ultimate for everyone beside magDK. So, the comparison is logic.
In pvp, meteor has a 1 second telegraph but does far more burst damage if not blocked. Ele storm has a 2 second telegraph, is unblockable but don't do any burst damage, so any enemy who can move will take even less damage on ele storm than on meteor. And ele storm cost 50 more ultimate, and doesn't have the good passive meteor has.
Meteor is also a good aoe/burst ultimate available for everyone, and for all of these reasons it's the best comparative versus ele storm.

TipsyDrow

The destro ult changes are a step in the right direction and I'd rather see them do small incremental buffs over the course of the pts then one big one and then nerf it later. As it stands it's still to costly. I'd like to see the cost reduced to 200, a stun chance per tick of the lightning morph say...25% chance, the fire morph changed to just a one time aoe fireball Boom and done and lessen the 2 second wind up to one and it may be worth using then.

Rykmaar

RoyJade wrote: »

Meteor is THE pve ultimate for everyone beside magDK. So, the comparison is logic.
In pvp, meteor has a 1 second telegraph but does far more burst damage if not blocked. Ele storm has a 2 second telegraph, is unblockable but don't do any burst damage, so any enemy who can move will take even less damage on ele storm than on meteor. And ele storm cost 50 more ultimate, and doesn't have the good passive meteor has.
Meteor is also a good aoe/burst ultimate available for everyone, and for all of these reasons it's the best comparative versus ele storm.

Indeed, which is why the destro ult is entirely disappointing, underperforming, and useless in its current form. People won't use this, ZoS is delusional.

However I think we need to take a step back here. This is a weapon ultimate and should get treated like the others. Right now, this is not NEARLY as good as the other weapon ults.

Notice berserker strike is apparently OK in its current form....

Dracane

Rykmaar wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

Meteor is THE pve ultimate for everyone beside magDK. So, the comparison is logic.
In pvp, meteor has a 1 second telegraph but does far more burst damage if not blocked. Ele storm has a 2 second telegraph, is unblockable but don't do any burst damage, so any enemy who can move will take even less damage on ele storm than on meteor. And ele storm cost 50 more ultimate, and doesn't have the good passive meteor has.
Meteor is also a good aoe/burst ultimate available for everyone, and for all of these reasons it's the best comparative versus ele storm.

Indeed, which is why the destro ult is entirely disappointing, underperforming, and useless in its current form. People won't use this, ZoS is delusional.

However I think we need to take a step back here. This is a weapon ultimate and should get treated like the others. Right now, this is not NEARLY as good as the other weapon ults.

Notice berserker strike is apparently OK in its current form....

I too was very surprised, there was no nerf to it yet.

Carbonised

No, destro ult is still not good enough. for 250 ult I get my DK banner. Why on earth would I even consider using destro staff ulti over banner at the moment? With passives and secondary effects, banner gives me way more damage in return, as well as loads of secondary effects and synergies.
And on my second bar I have meteor. Larger single target damage, CCs and larger damage overall with the secondary dot, has some burst as well, and no least gives me more magicka and is enhanced by mage guild passives. And also costs 50 less ult.
Neither in pvp nor pve would I even consider using destro ult instead of these.
Thanks for Soul Strike though, but that doesn't help the destro ult.

Resto ult is still extremely lackulster and boring. Healing is more about support and buffing your teammates, you don't really need more healing ..

2hand ult is still rediculously overpowerful in pvp. Did you not step into Cyrodiil and see that 50 % of the population is already twohander stambuilds that wreck anything within seconds?

Witar

Just fire Wrobel already. Guy is completely clueless and ruining the game on the daily basis.

The-Baconator

Derra wrote: »

For restoration staff i would have implemented an instant rezz ability.

One singletarget full resources version. One aoe (6 targets) no resources 50% health version.

MAYBE a single target version. AoE would be an absolute joke even if it cost +300 ult, try winning a Xv+40 when 3 people that were stealthed off to the side can insta rez 20 people.

Doctordarkspawn

@Wrobel

The reasons I have for using meteor over Elemental storm still stand. This did precisely nothing. Not nothing to solve the problem, it flat out did nothing. This change is redundant.

Carbonised

Also. With the new changes to destro ult, equiping a fire staff gives me about 0.9k extra damage per tic, 6 secs that's 6k damage (not even that, more like 5.4k)

With a lightning staff I get 2 more tics of 8.5k damage = 17k more damage.

Uhm .. Why does the lightning staff give you almost 12k more damage than fire staff? Also this is on a Dunmer, meaning on any other character the difference would be even larger.

On my pts character, Destro ult is sitting at 55k. Shooting star is 60k for burst and dot. Excluding the CC, the 2 % magicka, the 50 less ult cost, the ult return etc.

Fire staff does less damage than shooting star, and does nothing at all else. Nada, zip, just damage.

Banner is 58k, excluding the +20 % extra damage you deal in the duration, the snares, the major defile and the synergy ...
So even on raw damage nothing more, banner still wins (and with secondary effects, banner wins by a large margin, just like meteor)

Strider_Roshin

Dracane wrote: »

Rykmaar wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

Meteor is THE pve ultimate for everyone beside magDK. So, the comparison is logic.
In pvp, meteor has a 1 second telegraph but does far more burst damage if not blocked. Ele storm has a 2 second telegraph, is unblockable but don't do any burst damage, so any enemy who can move will take even less damage on ele storm than on meteor. And ele storm cost 50 more ultimate, and doesn't have the good passive meteor has.
Meteor is also a good aoe/burst ultimate available for everyone, and for all of these reasons it's the best comparative versus ele storm.

Indeed, which is why the destro ult is entirely disappointing, underperforming, and useless in its current form. People won't use this, ZoS is delusional.

However I think we need to take a step back here. This is a weapon ultimate and should get treated like the others. Right now, this is not NEARLY as good as the other weapon ults.

Notice berserker strike is apparently OK in its current form....

I too was very surprised, there was no nerf to it yet.

The way things have been currently, I was expecting it to get buffed lol.

Armitas

Rykmaar wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Two hander...There is almost nothing you can give them that is exciting and will not make an already OP situation worse.

I tried to make two morphs that would be exciting but would not directly benefit the currently imbalanced situation

• Morph 1. Passive while slotted. When you get the killing blow on an enemy you are set to stealth for 8 seconds and gain major expedition for 7 seconds. 1 min cd.
• Morph 2. Passively decreases magicka costs, and passivley gives minor magicka recovery.
  The point of morph 2 being for hybridization.

I think morph one is OP in pvp.

You can get the same from a pot, invisibility and run speed.

Dracane

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Rykmaar wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

Meteor is THE pve ultimate for everyone beside magDK. So, the comparison is logic.
In pvp, meteor has a 1 second telegraph but does far more burst damage if not blocked. Ele storm has a 2 second telegraph, is unblockable but don't do any burst damage, so any enemy who can move will take even less damage on ele storm than on meteor. And ele storm cost 50 more ultimate, and doesn't have the good passive meteor has.
Meteor is also a good aoe/burst ultimate available for everyone, and for all of these reasons it's the best comparative versus ele storm.

Indeed, which is why the destro ult is entirely disappointing, underperforming, and useless in its current form. People won't use this, ZoS is delusional.

However I think we need to take a step back here. This is a weapon ultimate and should get treated like the others. Right now, this is not NEARLY as good as the other weapon ults.

Notice berserker strike is apparently OK in its current form....

I too was very surprised, there was no nerf to it yet.

The way things have been currently, I was expecting it to get buffed lol.

Not so loud Strider It might happen

SanTii.92

I'm just going to say this. Eye of the Storm hits like a godamn truck.

And if they happen to reduce the cost by 50 would be a really good and fun ult to use.

Anti_Virus

Eye of the storm is fine.

Elemental rage needs a cost reduction though.

argouru

So will the base (unmorphed) versions of the ultimates unlock for free once a skill line hits lv. 50, or will they have to be purchased with a skill point once you reach level 50 in the skill line?

Rykmaar

Armitas wrote: »

Rykmaar wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Two hander...There is almost nothing you can give them that is exciting and will not make an already OP situation worse.

I tried to make two morphs that would be exciting but would not directly benefit the currently imbalanced situation

• Morph 1. Passive while slotted. When you get the killing blow on an enemy you are set to stealth for 8 seconds and gain major expedition for 7 seconds. 1 min cd.
• Morph 2. Passively decreases magicka costs, and passivley gives minor magicka recovery.
  The point of morph 2 being for hybridization.

I think morph one is OP in pvp.

You can get the same from a pot, invisibility and run speed.

Touché

Samuel_Bantien

The fire staff really got me.
Burning provides atleast 1k per tick - and it applied to everything in the AoE - even through AoE caps. Now it is removed for a measily 10% more tooltip damage. What a nerf.

Lightning Staff?
Concussed is basically a minor maim (damage reduction) and that has been removed for a 2 second additional duration #NerfedLikeLightningHeavyAttack.

Frost Staff...
Chilled from 2.6.0 + Wall of Elements does the exact same thing it does now. - Except chilled causes additional damage. Nerfed...

ZoS needs to reduce the ultimate cost to 175, and add all the secondary effects like it did in 2.6.0.
Destruction Staff needs to feel competitive against the other weapon ultimates, but right now we should just call it a wet noodle weapon/ultimate.

Tl;dr
The damage right now + effects from Elemental Rage in 2.6.0 should have been streamlined as the normal unmorphed version.

Eye of the Storm is a great idea, I would reduce the ultime down to 150 Ultimate on this morph.

Elemental Rage should have an increased radius (caltrops size) with initial damage (similar to Razor Caltrops - just a tad bit more damage than the actual DoT. - 175 Ultimate