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SCREW IT! I'LL SAY IT!
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susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »You really can't have 50+ stam moves and 10ish magicka moves and call it balance.
WTF? It is the other way around now.0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on May 21, 2016 7:51PMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
GivvumBoane✭✭✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).All hail the prophet that is Mike Judge, for his Idiocracy prophecy is near fruition.0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.P2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
k9mouse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.1 -
GivvumBoane✭✭✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
Ok, 3 or four developers, minimum 50k a year. Extra 150-200k a year more than current costs. Money has to be made somewhere. Not to mention dead time with learning the ins and outs of the classes and such.All hail the prophet that is Mike Judge, for his Idiocracy prophecy is near fruition.0 -
InfaM✭✭✭Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
Why would you be against a token system in like veteran maelstrom arena ?1 -
InfaM✭✭✭GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
Ok, 3 or four developers, minimum 50k a year. Extra 150-200k a year more than current costs. Money has to be made somewhere. Not to mention dead time with learning the ins and outs of the classes and such.
As we talk they're already giving 50k+ a month to the winner of that "million reason to play eso" , I could learn about coding/computer/games and fix bugs/issue on the game by myself if they hired me for that price...2 -
k9mouse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
Why would you be against a token system in like veteran maelstrom arena ?
One aspect of RIFT I hate, it has one thousand and one tokens to get and if do not have the right one, but have tons of a different one, one could not get the item that one wants. I am happy with having gold coins to buy anything and everything. ESO have 3 tokens now (VR stones in IC and AP) any more than that is getting too many options. To quote a poem:
"One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.[1]"1 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
Ok, 3 or four developers, minimum 50k a year. Extra 150-200k a year more than current costs. Money has to be made somewhere. Not to mention dead time with learning the ins and outs of the classes and such.
Do we know how much income there is and how much of that is invested back into the game? Because without this information discussing this is a bit pointless. That 200k extra might not be as big of a burden on the company budget as you think. Moreover, Im not sure this would be a full time gig. More like a 3-4 months contract and then a week or two for every DLC introducing new mechanics. I have a feeling higher player retention alone would pay for that.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on May 21, 2016 8:22PMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭funny how the "white knights" are crawling out of their holes and defending every single **** they are served with. Comments like "i pay for it and you don't, so you have nothing to say", as even many of the people complaining weren't playing the game when there was a subscription required to play the game (not that it would even matter).
ZOS is failing with every single dlc, at least regarding balance, bug fixes, new bugs, performance improvements, and so forth.... but hey, it's "progress", they are working on it!!!1!1 you as a customer has to accept it!!!1!1 well, if apple would sell you such a broken phone you would instantly return it and demand your money back, but hey it is "free" right? you just had to BUY it.... *sighs*
anyway, the op lists the things that have already been discussed and ignored by ZOS a hundred times. I mostly agree with the things he's listing here but it won't better because ZOS knows better, and the are "improving the game with every patch" and other **** you know...We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
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GivvumBoane✭✭✭✭GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
Ok, 3 or four developers, minimum 50k a year. Extra 150-200k a year more than current costs. Money has to be made somewhere. Not to mention dead time with learning the ins and outs of the classes and such.
As we talk they're already giving 50k+ a month to the winner of that "million reason to play eso" , I could learn about coding/computer/games and fix bugs/issue on the game by myself if they hired me for that price...khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
Ok, 3 or four developers, minimum 50k a year. Extra 150-200k a year more than current costs. Money has to be made somewhere. Not to mention dead time with learning the ins and outs of the classes and such.
Do we know how much income there is and how much of that is invested back into the game? Because without this information discussing this is a bit pointless. That 200k extra might not be as big of a burden on the company budget as you think. Moreover, Im not sure this would be a full time gig. More like a 3-4 months contract and then a week or two for every DLC introducing new mechanics. I have a feeling higher player retention alone would pay for that.
Exact numbers aren't really need. Increased costs cut into profits. Profit margin is the biggest concern for these companiesAll hail the prophet that is Mike Judge, for his Idiocracy prophecy is near fruition.0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
Why would you be against a token system in like veteran maelstrom arena ?
One aspect of RIFT I hate, it has one thousand and one tokens to get and if do not have the right one, but have tons of a different one, one could not get the item that one wants. I am happy with having gold coins to buy anything and everything. ESO have 3 tokens now (VR stones in IC and AP) any more than that is getting too many options. To quote a poem:
"One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.[1]"
And thats why youd prefer to be screwed over by RNG regardless of your skill and effort? Wow.
Also a token system is not the only way to cap the RNG. Trade-in systems have been suggested repeatedly in which you hand in several unwanted drops for an item you want.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on May 21, 2016 8:27PMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.1 -
InfaM✭✭✭Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
Why would you be against a token system in like veteran maelstrom arena ?
One aspect of RIFT I hate, it has one thousand and one tokens to get and if do not have the right one, but have tons of a different one, one could not get the item that one wants. I am happy with having gold coins to buy anything and everything. ESO have 3 tokens now (VR stones in IC and AP) any more than that is getting too many options. To quote a poem:
"One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.[1]"
I see, but the idea of tokens that has been many times discussed on forum is mostly for VMA, and it's just an addition to the current system, like everything remains the same, but to balance the incredible misfortune streak (100+ runs without desired weapons) the idea was to add tokens with the accomplishement of VMA (while keeping the regular RNG system on last chest)
That way , people who have been unlucky 100+ times can still be guaranteed to get their maelstrom weapons by spending the 100+ tokens their earnt during their VMA runs on a VMA vendor selling maelstrom weapons.
Result would be less frustrated players who've spent hundred of hours and who will spend other hundred of hours with no guarantee to finally get their weapon, it will makes it balanced and rewards accomplishement along with luck, as it is now, it only relies on luck.Edited by InfaM on May 21, 2016 8:28PM0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GivvumBoane wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
Ok, 3 or four developers, minimum 50k a year. Extra 150-200k a year more than current costs. Money has to be made somewhere. Not to mention dead time with learning the ins and outs of the classes and such.
As we talk they're already giving 50k+ a month to the winner of that "million reason to play eso" , I could learn about coding/computer/games and fix bugs/issue on the game by myself if they hired me for that price...khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
Ok, 3 or four developers, minimum 50k a year. Extra 150-200k a year more than current costs. Money has to be made somewhere. Not to mention dead time with learning the ins and outs of the classes and such.
Do we know how much income there is and how much of that is invested back into the game? Because without this information discussing this is a bit pointless. That 200k extra might not be as big of a burden on the company budget as you think. Moreover, Im not sure this would be a full time gig. More like a 3-4 months contract and then a week or two for every DLC introducing new mechanics. I have a feeling higher player retention alone would pay for that.
Exact numbers aren't really need. Increased costs cut into profits. Profit margin is the biggest concern for these companies
And as I said, the increased player retention from having a game that is actually balanced as well as player satisfaction and brand loyalty would likely cover the cost.P2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
k9mouse✭✭✭✭✭
✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
Why would you be against a token system in like veteran maelstrom arena ?
One aspect of RIFT I hate, it has one thousand and one tokens to get and if do not have the right one, but have tons of a different one, one could not get the item that one wants. I am happy with having gold coins to buy anything and everything. ESO have 3 tokens now (VR stones in IC and AP) any more than that is getting too many options. To quote a poem:
"One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.[1]"
And thats why youd prefer to be screwed over by RNG regardless of your skill and effort? Wow.
There is crafting to make what you want OR play a minigame to see what one gets in a RNG system OR earn gold and buy an item off another player. I hate farming 10,000 zones to get tokens for items and I do not have the RIGHT token I am screwed. At least with a RNG system you have chance to get an item that you want without worrying about if one has the right token or not.1 -
k9mouse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
Why would you be against a token system in like veteran maelstrom arena ?
One aspect of RIFT I hate, it has one thousand and one tokens to get and if do not have the right one, but have tons of a different one, one could not get the item that one wants. I am happy with having gold coins to buy anything and everything. ESO have 3 tokens now (VR stones in IC and AP) any more than that is getting too many options. To quote a poem:
"One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.[1]"
I see, but the idea of tokens that has been many times discussed on forum is mostly for VMA, and it's just an addition to the current system, like everything remains the same, but to balance the incredible misfortune streak (100+ runs without desired weapons) the idea was to add tokens with the accomplishement of VMA (while keeping the regular RNG system on last chest)
That way , people who have been unlucky 100+ times can still be guaranteed to get their maelstrom weapons by spending the 100+ tokens their earnt during their VMA runs on a VMA vendor selling maelstrom weapons.
Result would be less frustrated players who've spent hundred of hours and who will spend other hundred of hours with no guarantee to finally get their weapon, it will makes it balanced and rewards accomplishement along with luck, as it is now, it only relies on luck.
Why ZOS make those weapons not BOP instead being BOE?0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
Why would you be against a token system in like veteran maelstrom arena ?
One aspect of RIFT I hate, it has one thousand and one tokens to get and if do not have the right one, but have tons of a different one, one could not get the item that one wants. I am happy with having gold coins to buy anything and everything. ESO have 3 tokens now (VR stones in IC and AP) any more than that is getting too many options. To quote a poem:
"One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.[1]"
And thats why youd prefer to be screwed over by RNG regardless of your skill and effort? Wow.
There is crafting to make what you want OR play a minigame to see what one gets in a RNG system OR earn gold and buy an item off another player. I hate farming 10,000 zones to get tokens for items and I do not have the RIGHT token I am screwed. At least with a RNG system you have chance to get an item that you want without worrying about if one has the right token or not.
Um... what? I really cant follow your reasoning. Youd rather have a 0.001% chance to get what you want than to read a tooltip at an NPC vendor for 2 seconds and be guaranteed a reward for your hard work?
Also you cant buy the things were talking about here off another player. You cant craft them either.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on May 21, 2016 8:34PMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
GivvumBoane✭✭✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
Ok, 3 or four developers, minimum 50k a year. Extra 150-200k a year more than current costs. Money has to be made somewhere. Not to mention dead time with learning the ins and outs of the classes and such.
As we talk they're already giving 50k+ a month to the winner of that "million reason to play eso" , I could learn about coding/computer/games and fix bugs/issue on the game by myself if they hired me for that price...khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
Ok, 3 or four developers, minimum 50k a year. Extra 150-200k a year more than current costs. Money has to be made somewhere. Not to mention dead time with learning the ins and outs of the classes and such.
Do we know how much income there is and how much of that is invested back into the game? Because without this information discussing this is a bit pointless. That 200k extra might not be as big of a burden on the company budget as you think. Moreover, Im not sure this would be a full time gig. More like a 3-4 months contract and then a week or two for every DLC introducing new mechanics. I have a feeling higher player retention alone would pay for that.
Exact numbers aren't really need. Increased costs cut into profits. Profit margin is the biggest concern for these companies
And as I said, the increased player retention from having a game that is actually balanced as well as player satisfaction and brand loyalty would likely cover the cost.
But player retention only helps if they buy from the crown store or have ESO+.All hail the prophet that is Mike Judge, for his Idiocracy prophecy is near fruition.0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
Ok, 3 or four developers, minimum 50k a year. Extra 150-200k a year more than current costs. Money has to be made somewhere. Not to mention dead time with learning the ins and outs of the classes and such.
As we talk they're already giving 50k+ a month to the winner of that "million reason to play eso" , I could learn about coding/computer/games and fix bugs/issue on the game by myself if they hired me for that price...khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
Ok, 3 or four developers, minimum 50k a year. Extra 150-200k a year more than current costs. Money has to be made somewhere. Not to mention dead time with learning the ins and outs of the classes and such.
Do we know how much income there is and how much of that is invested back into the game? Because without this information discussing this is a bit pointless. That 200k extra might not be as big of a burden on the company budget as you think. Moreover, Im not sure this would be a full time gig. More like a 3-4 months contract and then a week or two for every DLC introducing new mechanics. I have a feeling higher player retention alone would pay for that.
Exact numbers aren't really need. Increased costs cut into profits. Profit margin is the biggest concern for these companies
And as I said, the increased player retention from having a game that is actually balanced as well as player satisfaction and brand loyalty would likely cover the cost.
But player retention only helps if they buy from the crown store or have ESO+.
If theyre not playing theyre not buying thats for sure. As long as they play some of them will buy and sub. The more happy they are with the game the more likely they are to spend money on it.P2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
k9mouse✭✭✭✭✭
✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
Why would you be against a token system in like veteran maelstrom arena ?
One aspect of RIFT I hate, it has one thousand and one tokens to get and if do not have the right one, but have tons of a different one, one could not get the item that one wants. I am happy with having gold coins to buy anything and everything. ESO have 3 tokens now (VR stones in IC and AP) any more than that is getting too many options. To quote a poem:
"One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.[1]"
And thats why youd prefer to be screwed over by RNG regardless of your skill and effort? Wow.
There is crafting to make what you want OR play a minigame to see what one gets in a RNG system OR earn gold and buy an item off another player. I hate farming 10,000 zones to get tokens for items and I do not have the RIGHT token I am screwed. At least with a RNG system you have chance to get an item that you want without worrying about if one has the right token or not.
Um... what? I really cant follow your reasoning. You rather have a 0.001% chance to get what you want than to read a tooltip at an NPC vendor for 2 seconds and be guaranteed a reward for your hard work?
Also you cant buy the things were talking about here off another player. You cant craft them either.
What if a Khajiit wants her sweet roll that cost 500 XYZ units (that you only can get in one area), but she worked very hard and 1,000 ABC units in a different area. She still could not get what she wants. That will make any Khajiit very sad not having a good sweetroll to eat. The poor Khajiit is forced to play one type of content to get her sweet roll.
If the sweetroll is in a RNG system. She can work very hard in any area that she wants to (play the content that she wants to play) to earn the needed XYZ units to get her sweet roll instead being forced to play one type of content.Edited by k9mouse on May 21, 2016 8:42PM0 -
InfaM✭✭✭Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
Why would you be against a token system in like veteran maelstrom arena ?
One aspect of RIFT I hate, it has one thousand and one tokens to get and if do not have the right one, but have tons of a different one, one could not get the item that one wants. I am happy with having gold coins to buy anything and everything. ESO have 3 tokens now (VR stones in IC and AP) any more than that is getting too many options. To quote a poem:
"One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.[1]"
I see, but the idea of tokens that has been many times discussed on forum is mostly for VMA, and it's just an addition to the current system, like everything remains the same, but to balance the incredible misfortune streak (100+ runs without desired weapons) the idea was to add tokens with the accomplishement of VMA (while keeping the regular RNG system on last chest)
That way , people who have been unlucky 100+ times can still be guaranteed to get their maelstrom weapons by spending the 100+ tokens their earnt during their VMA runs on a VMA vendor selling maelstrom weapons.
Result would be less frustrated players who've spent hundred of hours and who will spend other hundred of hours with no guarantee to finally get their weapon, it will makes it balanced and rewards accomplishement along with luck, as it is now, it only relies on luck.
Why ZOS make those weapons not BOP instead being BOE?
I think they're BOP because it's actually supposed to be a challenging place that rewards you for completing it, but as it stands it doesn't rewards your score, it doesn't rewards the number of time you accomplished it, it only rewards luck.
Not to mention that the last chest doesn't always rewards a weapon...
As an example I need 3 weapons there, I've done it 100+ times, I now have 60+ maelstrom weapons, and none of those is one that I need, that's like 100+ hours of farm rewarded by nothing but misfortune because of RNG, if there was tokens I would already have those weapons, and feel less frustrated about RNG being unrewarding, but right now I have the same weapon that I have 100+ runs ago when I first stepped there.
Some people are on 200+ runs with same issue.
At this point, be it tokens, BOE, trade undesired weapon for desired one...etc any other system would be better than what it is right now , but ZOS just ignore the issue while there's tons of topic about it for months.
We just need a goal when farming VMA to be guarantee that we're not gonna endlessly be stuck there hoping for our effort and accomplishement to be rewarded by luck (which can take 500/600/700... runs or simply never happens is we're really unlucky)
PS : You can not get those weapons anywhere else but in veteran maelstrom arena, that's why we've been asking for Maelstrom arena to drop maelstrom tokens.Edited by InfaM on May 21, 2016 8:45PM0 -
k9mouse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
Why would you be against a token system in like veteran maelstrom arena ?
One aspect of RIFT I hate, it has one thousand and one tokens to get and if do not have the right one, but have tons of a different one, one could not get the item that one wants. I am happy with having gold coins to buy anything and everything. ESO have 3 tokens now (VR stones in IC and AP) any more than that is getting too many options. To quote a poem:
"One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.[1]"
I see, but the idea of tokens that has been many times discussed on forum is mostly for VMA, and it's just an addition to the current system, like everything remains the same, but to balance the incredible misfortune streak (100+ runs without desired weapons) the idea was to add tokens with the accomplishement of VMA (while keeping the regular RNG system on last chest)
That way , people who have been unlucky 100+ times can still be guaranteed to get their maelstrom weapons by spending the 100+ tokens their earnt during their VMA runs on a VMA vendor selling maelstrom weapons.
Result would be less frustrated players who've spent hundred of hours and who will spend other hundred of hours with no guarantee to finally get their weapon, it will makes it balanced and rewards accomplishement along with luck, as it is now, it only relies on luck.
Why ZOS make those weapons not BOP instead being BOE?
I think they're BOP because it's actually supposed to be a challenging place that rewards you for completing it, but as it stands it doesn't rewards your score, it doesn't rewards the number of time you accomplished it, it only rewards luck.
Not to mention that the last chest doesn't always rewards a weapon...
As an example I need 3 weapons there, I've done it 100+ times, I now have 60+ maelstrom weapons, and none of those is one that I need, that's like 100+ hours of farm rewarded by nothing but misfortune because of RNG, if there was tokens I would already have those weapons, and feel less frustrated about RNG being unrewarding, but right now I have the same weapon that I have 100+ runs ago when I first stepped there.
Some people are on 200+ runs with same issue.
At this point, be it tokens, BOE, trade undesired weapon for desired one...etc any other system would be better than what it is right now , but ZOS just ignore the issue while there's tons of topic about it for months.
We just need a goal when farming VMA to be guarantee that we're not gonna endlessly be stuck there hoping for our effort and accomplishement to be rewarded by luck (which can take 500/600/700... runs or simply never happens is we're really unlucky)
PS : we've been asking for Maelstrom arena to drop maelstrom tokens only, else there's no point for us.
ah I see. I never liked BOP items. I always believe that any item should be able to be traded or crafted, not locked away behind a BOP wall.0 -
InfaM✭✭✭Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
Why would you be against a token system in like veteran maelstrom arena ?
One aspect of RIFT I hate, it has one thousand and one tokens to get and if do not have the right one, but have tons of a different one, one could not get the item that one wants. I am happy with having gold coins to buy anything and everything. ESO have 3 tokens now (VR stones in IC and AP) any more than that is getting too many options. To quote a poem:
"One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.[1]"
I see, but the idea of tokens that has been many times discussed on forum is mostly for VMA, and it's just an addition to the current system, like everything remains the same, but to balance the incredible misfortune streak (100+ runs without desired weapons) the idea was to add tokens with the accomplishement of VMA (while keeping the regular RNG system on last chest)
That way , people who have been unlucky 100+ times can still be guaranteed to get their maelstrom weapons by spending the 100+ tokens their earnt during their VMA runs on a VMA vendor selling maelstrom weapons.
Result would be less frustrated players who've spent hundred of hours and who will spend other hundred of hours with no guarantee to finally get their weapon, it will makes it balanced and rewards accomplishement along with luck, as it is now, it only relies on luck.
Why ZOS make those weapons not BOP instead being BOE?
I think they're BOP because it's actually supposed to be a challenging place that rewards you for completing it, but as it stands it doesn't rewards your score, it doesn't rewards the number of time you accomplished it, it only rewards luck.
Not to mention that the last chest doesn't always rewards a weapon...
As an example I need 3 weapons there, I've done it 100+ times, I now have 60+ maelstrom weapons, and none of those is one that I need, that's like 100+ hours of farm rewarded by nothing but misfortune because of RNG, if there was tokens I would already have those weapons, and feel less frustrated about RNG being unrewarding, but right now I have the same weapon that I have 100+ runs ago when I first stepped there.
Some people are on 200+ runs with same issue.
At this point, be it tokens, BOE, trade undesired weapon for desired one...etc any other system would be better than what it is right now , but ZOS just ignore the issue while there's tons of topic about it for months.
We just need a goal when farming VMA to be guarantee that we're not gonna endlessly be stuck there hoping for our effort and accomplishement to be rewarded by luck (which can take 500/600/700... runs or simply never happens is we're really unlucky)
PS : we've been asking for Maelstrom arena to drop maelstrom tokens only, else there's no point for us.
ah I see. I never liked BOP items. I always believe that any item should be able to be traded or crafted, not locked away behind a BOP wall.
Yep , hence why everyone trying to get a specific weapons with a specific traits in there is getting frustrated and discouraged by how stupid is the RNG there,
you spend 1hour for a run (solo instance btw) , so you lock yourself away from the MMO community to play solo, the final chest is not 100% rewarding a weapon, so you have to hope that the reward will be a weapon, then you have to hope that it willl be the desired weapon, then you have to hope that it will be the desired trait.
1 hour in there to be rewarded with unwanted items, repeat that 100+ times without the desired weapon/trait combination and you really start to think that RNG in there is nothing but a scam and at some point it makes you want to quit the game when you see that your effort and accomplishement are not rewarded and that 500 runs later it would probably still be the same.Edited by InfaM on May 21, 2016 8:53PM0 -
GivvumBoane✭✭✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
Ok, 3 or four developers, minimum 50k a year. Extra 150-200k a year more than current costs. Money has to be made somewhere. Not to mention dead time with learning the ins and outs of the classes and such.
As we talk they're already giving 50k+ a month to the winner of that "million reason to play eso" , I could learn about coding/computer/games and fix bugs/issue on the game by myself if they hired me for that price...khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
Ok, 3 or four developers, minimum 50k a year. Extra 150-200k a year more than current costs. Money has to be made somewhere. Not to mention dead time with learning the ins and outs of the classes and such.
Do we know how much income there is and how much of that is invested back into the game? Because without this information discussing this is a bit pointless. That 200k extra might not be as big of a burden on the company budget as you think. Moreover, Im not sure this would be a full time gig. More like a 3-4 months contract and then a week or two for every DLC introducing new mechanics. I have a feeling higher player retention alone would pay for that.
Exact numbers aren't really need. Increased costs cut into profits. Profit margin is the biggest concern for these companies
And as I said, the increased player retention from having a game that is actually balanced as well as player satisfaction and brand loyalty would likely cover the cost.
But player retention only helps if they buy from the crown store or have ESO+.
If theyre not playing theyre not buying thats for sure. As long as they play some of them will buy and sub. The more happy they are with the game the more likely they are to spend money on it.
Thing is, they'd have to take that loss until it's all fixed and word spreads to get people back in and playing and spending. Alot of revenue hungry companies aren't willing to show that profit loss on quarterly statements. It sucks, but it all boils down to a profit reportAll hail the prophet that is Mike Judge, for his Idiocracy prophecy is near fruition.0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »GivvumBoane wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »*Reads, gets to this part*- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because [someone] clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.
- Actual class balance overall
WoW can't even get their class balancing right after 10+ years. As much as I enjoy ESO, I doubt they will ever achieve balance either. As long a someone doing the balancing has a favorite class, as long as someone has a least favorite class, there will always be a class that is OP and one that people laugh at. Even if all the classes had the same skills, you would have those min/maxers find a way to make one of them OP.
I'd honestly rather advocate for a pvp build and a pve build. Separate it out so that pvers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pvp and pvpers don't have to respec because an ability got nerfed in pve.
On this topic. How hard would it be to sit down. take suggestions, work the math, and adjust the numbers weekly till you achieve balance? add in new skills, morphs, and passives, and rinse and repeat.... instead of this tradition of rotating which class/spec is more powerful every 4 months. I mean from my perspective...which is limited but still present.... If x and x class are on top in every area, and x and x class are bottom in performance in several areas... I don't Buff the top performing classes. idk maybe it really is to hard to understand for us mere mortals.
I have trouble understanding it as well. Hire a team of people to do balancing. Dont let it all be decided by just one guy with a punchable face and the voice of a teenager going through puberty. Make sure there are some people good at math in this team. Have them learn the ins and outs of every class. Have them crunch the numbers and tweak the skills and passives every week or two accordingly. Eventually youre bound to get close to a balanced game.
You said it in the first line. "Hire a team". That would mean more ridiculously expensive mounts and junk constantly being added. Hiring more people to do other things means they would have to expand their income to pay said people. Expanded marketing campaign, more crown store items, more overpriced dlc, or heaven forbid, weapons and armor available on crown store.( That was not sarcasm. I will quit the second this turns P2W).
I dont mean a team of 20 people. 3-4 would be more then enough for this. Pretty sure this would not drive them bankrupt or force major policy changes in monetization.
No but those are 3-4 people with 80+ hours a week and benefits. Companies have a set amount they intend to spend on their employees. Theyll be looking for ways to recoup that loss on those 3-4 people.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax1 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
Why would you be against a token system in like veteran maelstrom arena ?
One aspect of RIFT I hate, it has one thousand and one tokens to get and if do not have the right one, but have tons of a different one, one could not get the item that one wants. I am happy with having gold coins to buy anything and everything. ESO have 3 tokens now (VR stones in IC and AP) any more than that is getting too many options. To quote a poem:
"One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.[1]"
And thats why youd prefer to be screwed over by RNG regardless of your skill and effort? Wow.
There is crafting to make what you want OR play a minigame to see what one gets in a RNG system OR earn gold and buy an item off another player. I hate farming 10,000 zones to get tokens for items and I do not have the RIGHT token I am screwed. At least with a RNG system you have chance to get an item that you want without worrying about if one has the right token or not.
Um... what? I really cant follow your reasoning. You rather have a 0.001% chance to get what you want than to read a tooltip at an NPC vendor for 2 seconds and be guaranteed a reward for your hard work?
Also you cant buy the things were talking about here off another player. You cant craft them either.
What if a Khajiit wants her sweet roll that cost 500 XYZ units (that you only can get in one area), but she worked very hard and 1,000 ABC units in a different area. She still could not get what she wants. That will make any Khajiit very sad not having a good sweetroll to eat. The poor Khajiit is forced to play one type of content to get her sweet roll.
If the sweetroll is in a RNG system. She can work very hard in any area that she wants to (play the content that she wants to play) to earn the needed XYZ units to get her sweet roll instead being forced to play one type of content.
Thats the thing tho. Sweetrolls can only be found in one dungeon and so the Khajiit will have to run that dungeon exclusively and not any area she wants to. Also, in this secret bakery dungeon sweetrolls are quite rare as they are merely one of many pastry products that can be found in this place. Moreover, there are many kinds of sweetrolls, most of which are disgusting for Khajiits. So not only does the Khajiit have to get lucky to find a sweetroll among all the pastry goods but it has to be one of the Khajiit-friendly sweetrolls. It is possible that the Khajiit will get lucky and find a sweetroll like that after only a few visits to the bakery dungeon, but it is just as likely itll take dozens if not hundreds of visists.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on May 21, 2016 8:59PMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
k9mouse✭✭✭✭✭
✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Some points on YOUR list is NOT what I want:
To use OP's words, "make things real clear an obvious" of stuff I DO NOT want in ESO:
- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.
- An actual auction house
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
To Repeat I listed what on OP's list of items I disagree with.
- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas
Why would you be against a token system in like veteran maelstrom arena ?
One aspect of RIFT I hate, it has one thousand and one tokens to get and if do not have the right one, but have tons of a different one, one could not get the item that one wants. I am happy with having gold coins to buy anything and everything. ESO have 3 tokens now (VR stones in IC and AP) any more than that is getting too many options. To quote a poem:
"One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.[1]"
And thats why youd prefer to be screwed over by RNG regardless of your skill and effort? Wow.
There is crafting to make what you want OR play a minigame to see what one gets in a RNG system OR earn gold and buy an item off another player. I hate farming 10,000 zones to get tokens for items and I do not have the RIGHT token I am screwed. At least with a RNG system you have chance to get an item that you want without worrying about if one has the right token or not.
Um... what? I really cant follow your reasoning. You rather have a 0.001% chance to get what you want than to read a tooltip at an NPC vendor for 2 seconds and be guaranteed a reward for your hard work?
Also you cant buy the things were talking about here off another player. You cant craft them either.
What if a Khajiit wants her sweet roll that cost 500 XYZ units (that you only can get in one area), but she worked very hard and 1,000 ABC units in a different area. She still could not get what she wants. That will make any Khajiit very sad not having a good sweetroll to eat. The poor Khajiit is forced to play one type of content to get her sweet roll.
If the sweetroll is in a RNG system. She can work very hard in any area that she wants to (play the content that she wants to play) to earn the needed XYZ units to get her sweet roll instead being forced to play one type of content.
Thats the thing tho. Sweetrolls can only be found in one dungeon and so the Khajiit will have to run that dungeon exclusively and not any area she wants to. Also, in this secret bakery dungeon sweetrolls are quite rare as they are merely one of many pastry products that can be found in this place. Moreover, there are many kinds of sweetrolls, most of which are disgusting for Khajiits. So not only does the Khajiit have to get lucky to find a sweetroll among all the pastry goods but it has to be one of the Khajiit-friendly sweetrolls. It is possible that the Khajiit will get lucky and find a sweetroll after only a few visits to the bakery dungeon, but it is just as likely itll take dozens if not hundreds of visists.
Sounds like a fat Khajiit
At least Khajiit is earning XP and CP from doing the content and working her char builds. 0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hey everyone, and wow. I am so surprised that this thread picked up so much traction and kicked off the way it did. I was expecting it to be maybe commented on by 3 or 4 people, and then dying...
But, I see that there are other people who passionate about this game and tired of feeling like they're getting the short of the end of the stick from ZOS. And to those who feel this way, I want to tell you that you're not alone. I'm riding with you, and feel the exact same way.
And to those who disagree with my initial post, and made it clear why. I thank you for your input as well. Why? Because in my opinion, there must be disagreements in order a discussion to be healthy. If everyone is in agreement with what someone has to say, that's nice. But, that conversation or dialogue will lack substance. Because, there's no different points-of-view. So I thank you as well.
And lastly, I wanted to make something clear. I intentionally name dropped a certain ZOS' employee's name, because I feel they doesn't know what they're doing. And it appears that their decisions have been having negative impacts on the game's health time and time again, and wanted them to see that they are indeed slacking. And how I'm not afraid of calling them out on their lazy and shoddy work. Please, I wish I would bite my tongue and curb my words when things have been going bad for so long. It's also why I intentionally included: Admins, community managers, moderators, etc. So they wouldn't have to go looking for the source of the backlash and heat coming at them, if it should happen. They'll be linked right to it, and have me to thank for bringing so many things to the attention of those who weren't aware. They'll have me to thank for causing a lot of people's opinions to sway on ZOS' staff and team as a whole, until they start doing better.0