SCREW IT! I'LL SAY IT!

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · May 2016

"It's working as intended".
Or, at least, I seem to get that impression.

Bonzodog01 · May 2016

@turelus Absolutely spot on. Thank you for providing a mature, measured response to the whiners.

Aeladiir · May 2016

People who think ZOS "just doesn't care" and similar s*** like that, are simply ignorant. From several aspects. ESO forums sometimes deliver some quality feedback, but most of the time it's crap. Hopefully ZOS knows that (and I'm pretty sure they do). They've been great when it comes to listening to its community.

I was about to make the same post like Turelus, but he beat me to it.

Smileybones · May 2016

Of course they care, not caring about customer satisfaction when you run a service company is just suicidal, and Idon't think a suicidal company can run successfully over several decades as they did.

Turelus · May 2016

@Aeladiir you can still do one, my opinions still don't represent everyone in the community so you might have areas or thoughts which expand or counter my own.

Everyone has an idea how this game would be better, however so many people seem to forget what's better for them isn't what everyone in the community wants. If you go through the threads complaining about specific subjects it's normally the same people posting and not thousands of separate poster. I am just as guilty of this as shown with the recent exploiting threads.

The other issue is people seem to think just because they don't like a design choice in the game (guild traders for example) it's on ZOS to change it into the system they want. You don't go into a fish and chip shop and then complain they don't have ribeye steak on the menu and demand they serve it because you want it in that shop. A terrible analogy but you get my point.

If people really hate everything this game has to offer, they shouldn't be playing it because it's not the game they want. If it's just that people are frustrated (like I imagine the OP is) then they need to try and help rather than cause more problems and push ZOS away by insulting their staff.

I have been where OP is, I used to make ranting and raving threads demanding change, sometimes I still do. However the moment I actually stopped and realised that I am not a games developer and I don't choose the direction of this game I started to just focus on having fun in it again and enjoying myself.

Players can (and should) be critical and give ZOS a slap when they mess up, however drop the entitlement and idea your opinion is the correct one in every case and stop insulting developers because they're not doing the choices you want.

Simply enough grow up and relax...

/endrant.

C0wrex · May 2016

I enjoy the game, I really do. In fact, I love all the time I've spent with it.

But I agree completely with your post

Would be great if Zenimax were to implement such changes. I may not have played this game as long enough as you guys but I do know well enough how much said changes can do wonderful things.

InfaM · May 2016

Aeladiir wrote: »

People who think ZOS "just doesn't care" and similar s*** like that, are simply ignorant. From several aspects. ESO forums sometimes deliver some quality feedback, but most of the time it's crap. Hopefully ZOS knows that (and I'm pretty sure they do). They've been great when it comes to listening to its community.

I was about to make the same post like Turelus, but he beat me to it.

Yep they're so good at listening to community that as a simple example, they're replying to a single post about new forum layout the day it's posted, while they don't even take 1 minute to reply any of the multiple thread about VMA RNG issue of hundred of people for months.

I guess they also use RNG to select which thread they're replying to.

I probably like the game as much as everyone on the forum , but at some point you have to recognize when things are going wrong for them to improve it, if you approve every wrong step/fail decision/lazy bug fixing...etc that they do, you don't help them.
It's like playing a beta and don't report any bug/issue and says , "even with all those bugs/issues I like the game, it's playable, other people are just whining", that's a wrong way to see things , in fact other people are actually concerned enough by the game to complain about what's wrong, what could be improved according to majority feedbacks to deliver a perfect game experience that would make player/customer base satisfied and happy, afterall aren't they making their game for us to enjoy it and spend money on it ?

Now people will sure never 100% agree but atleast 80% of the things is from the majority of players feedback, so at some point refusing to see it is like supporting ZOS to an extent that I couldn't understand.

I think it's more ignorant to blind yourself from the facts that these issues are permanently coming back on forum and that they are real and not fixed/looked at and to think that because they reply on thread like "Game crashing before trailer photoshoot" , "New Forum layout feedback" , "What Do You Look Like in Real Life?" the game is improving.... In fact the forum is improving , not the game.

khele23eb17_ESO · May 2016

Turelus wrote: »

To break this down more than my previous post.
show previous quotes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

- Fixed PVP bugs-

AFAIK being worked on. Helping report specific bugs which are of concern with video and informed feedback helps.
show previous quotes

Turelus wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

- Fixed PVP AOE caps

This isn't broken, it's the game design choice they made, if you don't like it that's not their problem to fix.

Youre dismissing his point based on semantics. Its obvious he believes it is a wrong design choice and should be changed and not that theres a bug with it.

Turelus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

- Fixed overall RNG

What part of it is broken specifically that needs fixing? Is it that you've had bad luck with RNG (as your vMSA thread) or there is an actual bug with the system.

Same as above.

Turelus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

- A token system for dungeons for dungeons, trials, and arenas

Write a constructive guide on how you think this could be implemented weighing out the pros and cons.

Has been done repeatedly on the forums.

Turelus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

- Someone who is competent in class balancing, because @Wrobel clearly has no clue what the hell is doing.

Please list all the correct balancing choices which appease every member of the community, if there is anything people don't like then you'll have no clue what the hell you're doing.

You dont have to be an expert to notice things are off. Weve been told DB would bring improvements to stamina balance... and were getting dps buffs to stamDKs who were already the top dog while stamblades and stamsorcs are left severely underperforming as they did before DB.

Turelus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

- Actual class balance overall

Being worked on, and as above.

Being worked on badly, as above.

Turelus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

- Reduction in poison effectiveness from 60%, and even less than 30%.

There was a discussion about this on ESO Live last night, if you have exact numbers and examples of how these effect all game styles and where the issues are post them so they can see the feedback.

Its called common sense.

Turelus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

- Better overall RNG.

Once again what's the issue with the RNG which needs improving or is it you've had personal bad experience with it? Suggest ways in which it can be improved if you have them.

Once again. Its been done.

Turelus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

- Better We Are ESO Live streams. We don't care about what type of bricks you used or materials to make a damn wall. We want to know about approaching content, and things that major concerns of the community.

Just because you don't care about something doesn't mean the entire community doesn't.

Doesnt mean it does.

Turelus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

- A proper testing team that actually tests out content, before it reaches PTS or even live.

This is already in place, testers can't be perfect and find every issue and that's why we as players are invited to the PTS.

And ignored most of the time.

Turelus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

- Player feedback to actually be listened to from PTS testing, and no put things on live that were never in the PTS (cough Thieves Guild update cough)

They are listening and making changes comments regarding some issues, there are plenty of developer posts this last month showing this.

You mean like they changed poison effectiveness to 60% after people complained 30% was too high?

Turelus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

- Proper attire for female character models, that fit to their figures appropriately. Less bloating please.

There have already been some changes in this regard. Continue posting pictures and examples of where it's happening so the art team can work on them.

Continue posting pictures and examples? Thats hilarious. How the hell do things like this make it through QA? Explain to me how this is at all possible. How do you create an armor model and dont check how it looks on both genders? How? This isnt some obscure bug that has a 0.0001% chance to occur. This is something you literally cant miss if youre doing your job right.

Turelus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

- Skills in PVP having their effects behaving differently than they would in PVE. And vice-versa.

This isn't a design choice they want. They want you to know how a skill performs and have it perform in the way expected no matter what type of content you're doing. Again this is their design descion and not on them to appears your desires.

Then balance things better.

Turelus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I'm sure I missed out a lot of things, but I am pretty damn sure that the things I listed would actually happen? You'd have a LOT more happy players overall, less complaints on the forums, and more gratitude and support from your player base. Because clearly, what you've been doing is making many of us long-time players hate you. And while you may be luring in new players who are not aware of the things in store, they'll soon find out about it — and then leave too. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_Finn @ZOS_DaryaK @Wrobel @ZOS_ChrisStrasz @ZOS_ChrisH

They have a lot of happy players.

They have a lot of console players who are in their honeymoon phase with the game.

Turelus wrote: »

You're frustrated and passionate about the game, that's fine but just making a post and demanding a bunch of changes doesn't do anything to help those happen. All it does is give you an outlet for your frustrations. Also everything you wrote already has a dedicated thread about it, why not post in those with feedback and ideas which will help the developers understand the issues rather than making broad demands without any insight.

Because those insights have already been made in the threads you mentioned. Yet the issues keep piling up. It might be enlightening to the devs to post a message rounding things up.

VincentBlanquin · May 2016

everytime Wrobel say, that he want something to be impactfull, you know that ridiculous imbalance is on the way over over and over because he is unable to see bigger picture .....

majority of pvpers are like those who kill Kyle, so they must balance around their gameplay and not around Kyle gameplay ....

Ser Lobo · May 2016

Overally, I want to thank ZOS. I'm happy with the game, and really enjoying it. About the bottom half of that list is all I want, and you guys said we'll be getting it 'Soon(tm)', so I can be a little more patient.

Of course I don't agree with everything. Auction houses are a major one I dislike. Small PvP arena's are another (but I support unnofficial 1v1 duels and larger 20v20v20 skirmishes). And I think battlegrounds will show us a side of ESO that we can't currently see, due to the meta which is currently being carried by the end-game elite crowd.

And I know, ZOS has figured out who their paying and happy customer is and their trying to appeal to them. Mostly solo, likes flashy costumes and cool mounts, interested in PvP on a very limited basis and probably will never see trials or Craglorn. I think that's the customer that will pay a fortune for barber shops or housing, and that's the customer ZOS should be trying to get money from (i.e. building content for).

That's a harsh word, but I think it's true. We'll see how that certain rebuild does with drawing the PvP crowd away, but I doubt it will find a happy home in an old-school clone, because like it or not, old-school wasn't that great at all compared to what we see today.

ArchMikem · May 2016

Ser Lobo wrote: »

probably will never see trials or Craglorn.

Hah, spells me to a 'T'.

Docmandu · May 2016

Found the last ESO Live also rather disappointing.. they finally go to Cyrodiil to show some PvP, then it becomes obvious that the damage burst on some things is just over the top and their tester gets insta gibbed a few times (by 1-2 people, not by getting zerged down mind you). So the response is, lets go back to PvE and pick some flowers.

Tommy1979AtWar · May 2016

It's all been said many times before but it's good to remind them with a list once in a while, it shows we're taking notice even if they aren't.

Haquor · May 2016

@Turelus literally everything he brought up was not just a personal experience. They are issues raised and discussed in the forums many times over with alternative and fix proposals provided.

His intent was to highlight the ongoing issues raised by MANY players in every forum.

Asking him for the exact issues with things like this games RNG (reward vs work) is simply r3tarded.

The post was actually about drawing attention to the fact zos refuses to discuss the big issues people are having with this game.

These are not new issues and asking him for screenshots and suggested fixes and exact problems simply means you pay as much attention to significant player feedback as ZOS.

SwaminoNowlino · May 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Half of those issues are being worked on. Compared from what ESO was at launch to what it is now is amazing in the short time frame.
The devs listen to the community and provide updates based on the feedback etc. Stop acting like an arrogant child. Most people just jump the bandwagon and start hating for no apparent reason, if anything ESO is on an upwards climb and has been since Rich Lambert took over honestly.

@Nifty2g Wrobel talked about how Stam sorc tanks would like the change to crit surge because they could get a steady heal off of their crits...

1) In all my time playing this game, never once have I encountered a Stam sorc tank. What about the Stam sorc makes it conducive to tanking?
2) The only content in this game you need a tank for is VetICP and trials. How would a Stam sorc tank crit build fit in there? That dude would get kicked from the group before he said another word.
3) If there were such a thing as a Stam sorc crit build telling on crit surge, tell me how your capped and time capped surge is going to heal you through a single Manticora hit.

I love this game. And I'm generally always the one arguing for constructive criticism and helpful suggestions. But there are numerous polls and threads about how over the top poisons are. @Wrobel mentioned them on the show and just laughed about our concerns, "if 20 people are hitting you then you'll just die anyways, poison or not." Gee thanks for that insightful comment. If he read the thread, people are concerned that their two or three man groups won't stand a chance against something like a 6 man group. It's possible on live currently, but suddenly my 2 man group each has resource drain, ulti drain, and ravage health poison (the one that hit their dev on live for 17k...) No Bueno.

It's not so much the issues with the game as the attitude the devs took on ESO Live that bothered me. The folks saying I don't want no classes or change or anything are wrong. Would love some new classes and broader gameplay. I want more folks playing this game and doing more. But the attitude they took on ESO Live was so patronizing and dismissive of our feedback. They'd bring up a thread I'd read, and then discuss things that were never mentioned in that thread.

Basically, if they read a thread (a good one, not a rage nerf thread) and come to a different conclusion than the folks posting there, then they should explain exactly why they are doing what they are doing. Give us some numbers. Make your case. If you give me numbers and facts, I'll believe you. But to say you read the forums and come away with 100% different conclusions than the folks in the thread without telling us why? That's insulting.

And that is my entire point. I work on some software and server stuff, I get their issues with lag and the implementation of a lot of things. I understand why a lot of the issues exist. I'm not mad about the problems, or the poisons, or any of that. If they legitimately think it'll enhance gameplay then I'm okay. They just need to explain why they think it's okay and why the numbers we are seeing and worried about are good for the game.

Don't dismiss and insult this community. They are your customers. If they have a legit concern and show numbers for why they are concerned, answer them in kind. There is no more customer support on this game. Everything directs you to the forums. So people come here. Support your customers ZOS. That's all I'm asking.

/end rant

susmitds · May 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

show previous quotes

Nifty2g wrote: »

Half of those issues are being worked on. Compared from what ESO was at launch to what it is now is amazing in the short time frame.
The devs listen to the community and provide updates based on the feedback etc. Stop acting like an arrogant child. Most people just jump the bandwagon and start hating for no apparent reason, if anything ESO is on an upwards climb and has been since Rich Lambert took over honestly.

@Nifty2g Wrobel talked about how Stam sorc tanks would like the change to crit surge because they could get a steady heal off of their crits...

1) In all my time playing this game, never once have I encountered a Stam sorc tank. What about the Stam sorc makes it conducive to tanking?
2) The only content in this game you need a tank for is VetICP and trials. How would a Stam sorc tank crit build fit in there? That dude would get kicked from the group before he said another word.
3) If there were such a thing as a Stam sorc crit build telling on crit surge, tell me how your capped and time capped surge is going to heal you through a single Manticora hit.

I love this game. And I'm generally always the one arguing for constructive criticism and helpful suggestions. But there are numerous polls and threads about how over the top poisons are. @Wrobel mentioned them on the show and just laughed about our concerns, "if 20 people are hitting you then you'll just die anyways, poison or not." Gee thanks for that insightful comment. If he read the thread, people are concerned that their two or three man groups won't stand a chance against something like a 6 man group. It's possible on live currently, but suddenly my 2 man group each has resource drain, ulti drain, and ravage health poison (the one that hit their dev on live for 17k...) No Bueno.

It's not so much the issues with the game as the attitude the devs took on ESO Live that bothered me. The folks saying I don't want no classes or change or anything are wrong. Would love some new classes and broader gameplay. I want more folks playing this game and doing more. But the attitude they took on ESO Live was so patronizing and dismissive of our feedback. They'd bring up a thread I'd read, and then discuss things that were never mentioned in that thread.

Basically, if they read a thread (a good one, not a rage nerf thread) and come to a different conclusion than the folks posting there, then they should explain exactly why they are doing what they are doing. Give us some numbers. Make your case. If you give me numbers and facts, I'll believe you. But to say you read the forums and come away with 100% different conclusions than the folks in the thread without telling us why? That's insulting.

And that is my entire point. I work on some software and server stuff, I get their issues with lag and the implementation of a lot of things. I understand why a lot of the issues exist. I'm not mad about the problems, or the poisons, or any of that. If they legitimately think it'll enhance gameplay then I'm okay. They just need to explain why they think it's okay and why the numbers we are seeing and worried about are good for the game.

Don't dismiss and insult this community. They are your customers. If they have a legit concern and show numbers for why they are concerned, answer them in kind. There is no more customer support on this game. Everything directs you to the forums. So people come here. Support your customers ZOS. That's all I'm asking.

/end rant

Tanks are not supposed to heal through massive amounts of damage.

SwaminoNowlino · May 2016

Also want to mention that @Worbel said RNG on gear boxes for cyrodil vendors is "fun and exciting"

Don't have anything constructive about that. RNG is what it is. But I almost died laughing thinking about all the forum guys complaining about RNG watching that sentence. I also love watching the team after he says some of that stuff. Their is a brief flash of hatred on their part because they know he said something that's going to get them yelled at lol

VizigothAlaric · May 2016

SwaminoNowlino · May 2016

susmitds wrote: »

show previous quotes

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Tanks are not supposed to heal through massive amounts of damage.

I absolutely agree. That's why I don't know why those nonexistent Stam sorc tanks would care about a small heal buff that ticks whenever you do critical damage. Which was the reason they have for changing surge. Which makes no sense haha

Nifty2g · May 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

show previous quotes

Nifty2g wrote: »

Half of those issues are being worked on. Compared from what ESO was at launch to what it is now is amazing in the short time frame.
The devs listen to the community and provide updates based on the feedback etc. Stop acting like an arrogant child. Most people just jump the bandwagon and start hating for no apparent reason, if anything ESO is on an upwards climb and has been since Rich Lambert took over honestly.

@Nifty2g Wrobel talked about how Stam sorc tanks would like the change to crit surge because they could get a steady heal off of their crits...

1) In all my time playing this game, never once have I encountered a Stam sorc tank. What about the Stam sorc makes it conducive to tanking?
2) The only content in this game you need a tank for is VetICP and trials. How would a Stam sorc tank crit build fit in there? That dude would get kicked from the group before he said another word.
3) If there were such a thing as a Stam sorc crit build telling on crit surge, tell me how your capped and time capped surge is going to heal you through a single Manticora hit.

I love this game. And I'm generally always the one arguing for constructive criticism and helpful suggestions. But there are numerous polls and threads about how over the top poisons are. @Wrobel mentioned them on the show and just laughed about our concerns, "if 20 people are hitting you then you'll just die anyways, poison or not." Gee thanks for that insightful comment. If he read the thread, people are concerned that their two or three man groups won't stand a chance against something like a 6 man group. It's possible on live currently, but suddenly my 2 man group each has resource drain, ulti drain, and ravage health poison (the one that hit their dev on live for 17k...) No Bueno.

It's not so much the issues with the game as the attitude the devs took on ESO Live that bothered me. The folks saying I don't want no classes or change or anything are wrong. Would love some new classes and broader gameplay. I want more folks playing this game and doing more. But the attitude they took on ESO Live was so patronizing and dismissive of our feedback. They'd bring up a thread I'd read, and then discuss things that were never mentioned in that thread.

Basically, if they read a thread (a good one, not a rage nerf thread) and come to a different conclusion than the folks posting there, then they should explain exactly why they are doing what they are doing. Give us some numbers. Make your case. If you give me numbers and facts, I'll believe you. But to say you read the forums and come away with 100% different conclusions than the folks in the thread without telling us why? That's insulting.

And that is my entire point. I work on some software and server stuff, I get their issues with lag and the implementation of a lot of things. I understand why a lot of the issues exist. I'm not mad about the problems, or the poisons, or any of that. If they legitimately think it'll enhance gameplay then I'm okay. They just need to explain why they think it's okay and why the numbers we are seeing and worried about are good for the game.

Don't dismiss and insult this community. They are your customers. If they have a legit concern and show numbers for why they are concerned, answer them in kind. There is no more customer support on this game. Everything directs you to the forums. So people come here. Support your customers ZOS. That's all I'm asking.

/end rant

First of all what do you justify as a stam tank, cause to me almost every tank is Stamina based seeing as they have to watch resources pretty much. No different than a Stam Sorc tank.

Last time I tanked vet ICP I went in with a tank dps build with no real issue, I assume thats the same as a sorc tank, though it doesn't apply to 99% of the community, I can't see how it would work, but then again sorcs arent exactly the best for tanking. But I can see how having hurricane and surge on an offbar would be a nice heal mixed with vigor

And you shouldn't even be dying from 1 hit of Mantikora anyway, it's kinda weak not sure how you'd get 1 hit by it, maybe if you dropped block. And you kinda can't self heal that anyway need a healer.

waterfairy · May 2016

Yes ^

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't watch these things but I'm curious what made Bill Murray stand and applaud so happily?

Averya_Teira · May 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Half of those issues are being worked on. Compared from what ESO was at launch to what it is now is amazing in the short time frame.
The devs listen to the community and provide updates based on the feedback etc. Stop acting like an arrogant child. Most people just jump the bandwagon and start hating for no apparent reason, if anything ESO is on an upwards climb and has been since Rich Lambert took over honestly.

Many would say it's the opposite. Each DLC brings less and less content (compare Orsinium with Thieves Guild and upcoming DB lol...) and the most important thing, each DLC brings A LOT more instability and bugs that just never get fixed.

Averya_Teira · May 2016

Turelus wrote: »

Just to be clear some of the things you're asking for fixes for others don't see as broken and calling out developers saying they don't know what they're doing is rude.

If it's all so easy please post all of the balance changes for us which will appease every member of the community, tell us how to fix lag and show examples of it working, explain the alternate RNG systems etc.

It's fine sitting at your PC miles away from a development studio and screaming "FIX THE GAME!!!" but unless you know the magic code to make all of these problems go away and make every member of the community happy at once it might be worth having some consideration for those who are working hard on this already.

First, he did bring the solution to RNG: a token system.

Second, it's the ZOS programmers job, not his, to fix the game performance. If I don't do my job and fix issues where I work, they show me the door. Why do you defend their incompetence exactly ?

Also, the "magic code" to remove lag is to remove the, probably poorly written, anti cheat system that started the lag in the first place and put something else that won't cause said lag...

bloodenragedb14_ESO · May 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino · May 2016

@Nifty2g I don't even know that the majority of tanks are stamina anymore. I know a lot of folks tanking on magicka DK, Magicka Sorc, or hybrid Templars.

That's my point. I don't know any Stam sorc tanks. Never met one. So why would you balance a skill around that? Surge would be great like that, and was used like that before the changes. Now it won't be used.

psychotic13 · May 2016

Even with a thread with as much attention as this, they still don't respond to anything, ZOS are useless when it comes to interacting with the people that keep their game alive.

Don't get me wrong, I love ESO but it could be so much better if they just *** listened to the fans. But the fact is the most important thing to them is adding *** to the crown store to make some more £££'s.

They're making the game they want, and not what is wanted by the majority, if they don't start to listen this game won't last as long as I'd like it to.

Half of it is really simple fixes, we don't need a major overhaul of the game, just balance, lag free and fairly rewarded for things we spend hours to accomplish.

Then the little things like being able to change your hair style ect, like who wouldn't even think of something as basic as that? Should've been implemented before the game was even released! But they'll probably add that to the crown store to squeeze some more money out of us, half of these idiots should be sacked.

And to anyone who's like don't like it don't play, take your tongue out of there ass it's people like you that is stopping this game from progressing.

They should fix all this before releasing DB, fix the game and give us something to then look forward to. Not add another DLC as quick as possible cause that means more £££

Korah_Eaglecry · May 2016

Oh look more agree/awesome ****ing. Not really surprised to see its the OP making this list of known issues and pretending hes the only one brave enough to call ZOS out on things.

I sometimes wish posts like this would be ignored. The forums would be much more approachable if they were. But everyone loves themselves a little drama early in the morning so here we are.

Nifty2g · May 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Nifty2g I don't even know that the majority of tanks are stamina anymore. I know a lot of folks tanking on magicka DK, Magicka Sorc, or hybrid Templars.

That's my point. I don't know any Stam sorc tanks. Never met one. So why would you balance a skill around that? Surge would be great like that, and was used like that before the changes. Now it won't be used.

What are you talking about? Majority of tanks are based around Stamina as it is the main resource, people who tank with magicka are doing it wrong, the only magicka taunt would be inner rage and I don't believe that even adds a debuff like Pierce does. All other debuffs are Stamina. I can't see how a magicka dk would benefit over all the stamina morphs for tanking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ1A19xIJYo

Surge looks decent to me

Nogawd · May 2016

Out of all the different personality types out there, the geeky/nerdy type whiners have to be the worst! Such entitled babies! These people embarrass themselves on these forums on a daily basis.

Ser Lobo · May 2016

psychotic13 wrote: »

They're making the game they want, and not what is wanted by the majority, if they don't start to listen this game won't last as long as I'd like it to.

Thank god. I'd hate to see the game produced by 'listening to the majority'. Lets negligently put aside that the forum community doesn't make up the majority or come even close. Lets simply ignore the fact that build by 'popular opinion' has, in the past, caused more games to collapse than rise.

Read the first 20 pages of general discussion, but this time, read every single one. Put our personal opinions aside, and give them all equal weight. The ideas are oftentimes so far fetched, some so out of character, and quite frequenly completely contridict the post right behind or ahead of it.

The only true measure of the success of ZOS isn't the forum or any other 'vocal minority' (of which I'm obviously a part). The only true measure of success is seen by ZOS in participation numbers. How many play, how many log back in, how many buy crowns, etc.

I'll be honest, reading that recent article from the business site, it seems ZOS is pretty damn happy with their product.

Why do I feel this way? I was a member of SOE's forums, and played the hell out of SWG. And the changes they made in NGE? They were requested. By the playerbase.

And when that overhaul happened, and those changes were made real? Well all of a sudden, that game wasn't so fun anymore, and those people moved on ... as well as the ton of us who actually LIKED the game.

I'd recommend letting ZOS manage their business and their IP as they see fit. I want some things too, but I'm also happy because I'm about to get those things. To me, and from my eyes, this game is going to get nothing but better, and I like it.