Remove all third party software
Maintenance for the week of March 31:
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 2, 6:00AM EST (10:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (22:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• Playstation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 2, 6:00AM EST (10:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (22:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• Playstation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
-
ZOS_ConnorGmodGreetings all,
After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for various rule violations, mostly Baiting. Please ensure when engaging in a discussion that you remain civil, constructive, and within the rules to ensure you can have a health discussion.
You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kringled_1 wrote: »Anti-cheat software that looks for signatures of known cheat software loaded into memory is possible but not something that ZOS is using at this time; some other large game publishers do use these but I don't know how effective they are or not. It does have to look for specific things, rather than 'anything outside of those known' because the universe of possible software that players could be running is enormous and larger than can be known.
ZOS certainly could do more to stop cheating. I just think the existence of add-ons has no real impact on their ability or decisions in this area.
If ZOS were using this sort of thing, I have to think that someone would have noticed and mentioned it, especially given the apparent popularity of external cheat programs.
As near as I can tell, ZOS is running an unprotected ESO client that is wide open to any program that wants to manipulate it.
2 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Started playing on Xbox, then bought it for PC. I didn't much more than started on PC, before I realized I would have to keep updated on all sorts of plugins and stuff, to be "competative" - so I stopped right there. As simple as that.
[snip]
I don't use any combat addon and have clear pretty much all the game as to offer.
[snip]
Don't care what people said, addon that tell you everything about mechanic YOU should know is just cheating, nothing more.
But player like to say it's "QoL" to feel better about their lack of skill.
Asylum Tracker
HowToSunspire
Such "skill" such "dedication", that just an insult to the dev's team that have created these Trial.
It completely negate the part about mechanic and all you've to worry is uptime and parse, [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 7, 2020 1:50PM[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]3 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Injecting an overly or HUD/UI into a running code base can also be done with enough knowledge via code marshalling. Reshade, for example, isn't a cheat specific software, but it also injects a HUD.
I could be wrong, but I think reshaders work at the GPU driver/rendering process level. They don't alter anything in the game itself, they change how a frame is rendered on the screen.2 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I could be wrong, but I think reshaders work at the GPU driver/rendering process level. They don't alter anything in the game itself, they change how a frame is rendered on the screen.
No, you're right, they don't, but they do inject an overlay. I was giving an example of another tool which adds onscreen elements, as that was part of the question. The cheat software OP is referring to also injects an overlay--so I was just putting forward an example of a case where that also happens to illustrate that not only add-ons add onscreen elements (which seems to be the main hurdle to understanding some of the info given to them).
[snip]
I don't use any combat addon and have clear pretty much all the game as to offer.
[snip]
Don't care what people said, addon that tell you everything about mechanic YOU should know is just cheating, nothing more.
But player like to say it's "QoL" to feel better about their lack of skill.
Asylum Tracker
HowToSunspire
Such "skill" such "dedication", that just an insult to the dev's team that have created these Trial.
It completely negate the part about mechanic and all you've to worry is uptime and parse, [snip]
I just read the summaries on those add-ons and I am really disappointed they don't execute the mechanics and play the game for me. I feel mis-sold
Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 7, 2020 1:50PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Addons and cheating have nothing in common.
Pretty much this.
Zos has full control of the API but more importantly, I think there is a misunderstanding about the difference between add-ons and actual third party applications that facilitate cheating. The cheat engine that OP refers to was not like our add-ons in any way but manipulated the trusted client.
More importantly, because CE does not require the API like add-ops do, eliminating the use of addons would not affect the ability to use CE and if Zos went back to the trusted client it would again open the door to more cheating, easier cheating, and that is a fact.2 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭
No, you're right, they don't, but they do inject an overlay. I was giving an example of another tool which adds onscreen elements, as that was part of the question. The cheat software OP is referring to also injects an overlay--so I was just putting forward an example of a case where that also happens to illustrate that not only add-ons add onscreen elements (which seems to be the main hurdle to understanding some of the info given to them).
I just read the summaries on those add-ons and I am really disappointed they don't execute the mechanics and play the game for me. I feel mis-sold
Tbh the fact that these addon do half the job so you don't have to learn anything and just follow addon timer and warning but so many people using them still not able to clear content look very sad to me.
I'm sur even if addon would do mech' for you some will still struggle
[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Tbh the fact that these addon do half the job so you don't have to learn anything and just follow addon timer and warning but so many people using them still not able to clear content look very sad to me.
I'm sur even if addon would do mech' for you some will still struggle
Possibly0 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
With those types of add-ons I ofcourse mean the add-ons that mark every location in a zone where a chest could spawn. Giving players a major advantage in finding those chests. Should have said chests, not treasure chests. My bad.
Alright, specifics.
Let us ask this simple question. How does an addon tell you the location of treasure chests?
Step 1: It detects a treasure map in your inventory.
Step 2: It looks up where the treasure is located.
Step 3: It draws an icon on that location.
Now, how would one go about disrupting this process?
How to disrupt Step 1? Prevent add-ons from seeing the inventory or prevent add-ons from being able to identify treasure maps.
How to work around this? Add a new menu that allows the user to search location by name.
How to disrupt this workaround? Prevent add-ons from adding new UI elements.
How to disrupt Step 2? You can't.
How to disrupt Step 3? Prevent add-ons from drawing on the map.
How to work around this? Add a new add-on map that allows adding icons to the map.
How to disrupt this workaround? Prevent developers from showing images.0 -
stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Filleting fish still majorly sucks even with the add-on.
It does automate the process, but it doesn't make it go much faster. It's still painfully s l o w , and mind-numbing.
Nothing to be jealous of, really.
It's mind-numbing only if you insist on staring at your screen while the script runs. Take a quick break and come back a few minutes later. To me, that is exactly the opposite of mind numbing.0 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭relentless_turnip wrote: »
Minion will do that for you
Also there is a lot of convenience and not much competitive edge.
It's the "will do it for you" part that's exactly it. I don't want anything to "do it" for me, I want to be the one doing the things. And I mean, when there was this thing telling you if other players were close to you (in sneak) in Cyrodiil, and these things still telling you to dodge/block, cleanse, use potions, when your ultimate is ready and such? Seriously, LEARN to play the game ffs.... How can you feel you've really beaten a vet hm trial, when you have been told exactly everything to do, all along the way? And this is what many groups demand that you use? I mean... Naa-aah...
3 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
It's the "will do it for you" part that's exactly it. I don't want anything to "do it" for me, I want to be the one doing the things. And I mean, when there was this thing telling you if other players were close to you (in sneak) in Cyrodiil, and these things still telling you to dodge/block, cleanse, use potions, when your ultimate is ready and such? Seriously, LEARN to play the game ffs.... How can you feel you've really beaten a vet hm trial, when you have been told exactly everything to do, all along the way? And this is what many groups demand that you use? I mean... Naa-aah...
Minion is a tool that maintains your add-ons directory by letting you know when to update. It isn't an add-on, but an add-on manager. relentless_turnip was mentioning it in response to your statement on the drama of maintaining add-ons.
https://minion.mmoui.com/
1 -
zergbase_ESO✭✭✭✭Started playing on Xbox, then bought it for PC. I didn't much more than started on PC, before I realized I would have to keep updated on all sorts of plugins and stuff, to be "competative" - so I stopped right there. As simple as that.
Called minion. I click update and done. Man that was soooooooo hard. Always some window licker.
I like idea of an addon system built into game to down load it and allowing ps4 and Xbox to do the same probably be quality of life improvement. Only issue being if systems can handle it. Maybe next gen for sure but current gen idk if I would trust on such. Like FF14 can tell who was on ps4 by how slow they reacted due to system lag or way they moved
. 2 -
silver1surfer69✭✭✭✭
There are addons that allow for cheating. In PVE there are addons that warn you when to block/dodge etc. There are some that detect when another player is winding up a shot and gives the player forewarning to roll dodge. The PVE stuff is fine, the PVP stuff is not. You are correct in the trainer cheats that allow for players to fly through the air, you incorrect in claiming that it is impossible for an addon to grant the player an unfair advantage that constitutes cheating.
I'd never want to see ESO without addons. I'd only be pro doing something like this if ZOS provided an alternative like an in game addon store, with a clear mandate to only block addons that facilitate cheating.
I disagree. I know of no addon that gives you an advantage like cheating. What you refer to here is i guess what 1 addon was able to do in the past, but it cannot do this anymore. In pve yes but not in pvp. There was eg a warning if someone was channelling something on you, like snipe eg. This is not working in pvp anymore and that since like 2 years now. Addons can eg make information that is already in the game more visible.
If preventing all addons would mean the stop of cheat i would say great, why wasnt this done already. But as have several guys stated above here, that this is not the case, what i also think. This will stop cheating not at all if there are no more addons, this is my understanding.PC/EU
Starstréam - NB, Loveknight - HybridDK (4*), Stahlstrahlenreiter - StamDen, Azgul Grahl Bashrugk - HybridSorc (5*), Tínúvíél - StamCro, Thógard - StamPlar0 -
imno007b14_ESO✭✭✭Personally, I'd likely never play the game again if they did away with addon's and blocked access to the API, without some serious additions by the ESO team themselves. Just having to spend hours trying to find items to buy by running from zone to zone and guild store to guild store would be enough to cause me to rage quit.3
-
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Are you really getting a full Elder Scrolls experience if you aren't using add-ons to cover up the games short comings? That being said, add-ons really aren't cheats.
[Edit to remove bait]Edited by [Deleted User] on August 7, 2020 6:29PM4 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »But after cheats for sale and seeing said cheats showcased on YouTube I now see the depth of the problem. I have also been to the website where they are sold and seen the insane amount of players who have purchased them. I have linked this site to zos btw...
This is a sign to ZOS to sell pay-to-win advantages in the cash shop for PvP only.
Skill lines and skill point unlocks are clearly not enough.
People are not able to buy enough advantages from ZOS (or at a cheap enough price) so the risk of getting an account banned and having to start all over again is clearly less than the cost of buying an actual cheat program.
A lot of other PvP games monetize with pay-to-win or pay-for-convenience.
Imagine if you could buy a cannot-recharge limited use, equip-in-battlegrounds only vMA weapon. I bet ZOS would make back more than all the money they have sunk into researching and trying to duct tape PvP performance issues.
Edited by Dusk_Coven on August 7, 2020 4:01PM0 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Are you really getting a full Elder Scrolls experience if you aren't using add-ons to cover up the games short comings? That being said, add-ons really aren't cheats.
I don't believe add-ons are cheats and have never stated so, I also use them.Edited by [Deleted User] on August 7, 2020 6:30PM0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭silver1surfer69 wrote: »I know of no addon that gives you an advantage like cheating.
Just because you don't know about it doesn't meant it might not exist. I think it's naive to believe all add-ons are publicly listed on some third party site that isn't even connected to ZOS. Or that ZOS's coding doesn't have loopholes.
And AddOn authors have been known to hide hidden functionality in their AddOns. I don't see why even more unscrupulous activity isn't going on.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497823/libcustomtitles-lua-before-you-saw-this-poll
Edited by Dusk_Coven on August 7, 2020 4:00PM0 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭It has more to do with ZeniMax having outdated anti cheat technology than addons. But keep blaming things you obviously don’t understand for why you died in PvP.3 -
Wuerstal✭✭✭I honestly would quit the game if some of the Addons would be removed. Most of the Addons I use have such a basic functionality that I really don't get why they aren't in the game from an official side already..
Examples:
Why is there no penetration stat in the character overview??.. I need an Addon for that..
Why is there no possibility to change different combat setups with skills, armor, cp etc??.. Again 2 more addons.
Why is there no timer for my skills??.. you could argue that they aren't nessecary but its still a very basic function. but I need an addon for that.
I could go on and on. Deleting them all would kill the experience for me. Are there Addons that should be removed? Yes. That freaking addon that tells you when you are targeted with a projectile ability so you can dodge it in PvP -> Ban it.
As for stuff like Raid notifier, Combat alerts and stuff like that... I'm not a fan of them tbh. Yet I still use them.
Why?
Because it is sometimes impossible to see the animations of enemies. Ever tanked a miniboss in vCR with 5 daedroth and a Necroult in your face? YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING. Without Combat alerts I would have to stand there in perma block beeing unable to do anything because I can't possibly see when the enemie charges a heavy attack.
And another thing:
Do you guys remember when the guildstore had no search feature what so ever? You needed an Addon for that.5 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Everyone (on PC anyways) can use these addons though. True, many people don't like to use them for many reasons, but the option is there. And honestly, knowing where treasure chests is isn't really that big of a deal, it doesn't give anyone any sort of huge advantage over everyone else. Part of that reason is because a) treasure chests are flippin' everywhere, and b) I assume most people don't go out and just wildly run after whatever chest is closest, but rather pick specific areas to do their farming, so these people already know where chests in their given circuit is (I have two places where I've memorized where all the chest spawns are).With those types of add-ons I ofcourse mean the add-ons that mark every location in a zone where a chest could spawn. Giving players a major advantage in finding those chests. Should have said chests, not treasure chests. My bad.
Now I suppose you can say that knowing where Thieves Troves spawn is more of an advantage thanks to leads and the fact that Troves spawn more randomly than chests do (I think). All the same, there are so many places where Troves can spawn that it still doesn't give a player using an addon to find them all that much of an advantage, because you aren't very likely to run into someone using those addons if you're hunting for leads or something.
While I don't agree with using addons that let you detect other players in PvP and auto-dodge for you and all, you need to keep in mind that there are plenty of people who use these addons specifically TO learn how to do harder content. There are plenty of people out there like me who have terrible situational awareness, not because we're bad at the game but for various irl reasons, and having the heads-up that something we might otherwise miss really helps. A lot of things aren't well-telegraphed and if you're like me, who can barely keep track of maybe two things at a time (I get easily overwhelmed), it's very easy to miss them.It's the "will do it for you" part that's exactly it. I don't want anything to "do it" for me, I want to be the one doing the things. And I mean, when there was this thing telling you if other players were close to you (in sneak) in Cyrodiil, and these things still telling you to dodge/block, cleanse, use potions, when your ultimate is ready and such? Seriously, LEARN to play the game ffs.... How can you feel you've really beaten a vet hm trial, when you have been told exactly everything to do, all along the way? And this is what many groups demand that you use? I mean... Naa-aah...
So it's not just people wanting to be lazy or not wanting to learn how to play, there are a lot of people who legit benefit from these things and may not otherwise clear content without them. Just because you don't want addons "doing it" for you doesn't mean you should blanket label everyone who does use these things as not playing the game right or something.
Character List [RP and PvE]:SpoilerStands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood
PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!1 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »It has more to do with ZeniMax having outdated anti cheat technology than addons. But keep blaming things you obviously don’t understand for why you died in PvP.
Dying in PvP has nothing to do with this thread.
A lot of people have added a meaningful response to this thread. I might not agree with all of them, but they have actually had a point to make and have articulated it.
These sorts of comments are about as useful as running into a riot and shouting "fire hot".
I welcome your opinion, but please don't just assume the context. My thoughts and what lead to the creation of this thread can be found at the beginning. The conversation had since evolved and would be worth reading before weighing in 👍
2 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »
I don't believe add-ons are cheats and have never stated so, I also use them.
No, but your proposal and reasoning to remove them all is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.Edited by [Deleted User] on August 7, 2020 6:30PM3 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
No, but your proposal and reasoning to remove them all is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
I don't see how, but I appreciate to a degree words are subjective 🤔Edited by [Deleted User] on August 7, 2020 6:31PM0 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭I honestly would quit the game if some of the Addons would be removed. Most of the Addons I use have such a basic functionality that I really don't get why they aren't in the game from an official side already..
Examples:
Why is there no penetration stat in the character overview??.. I need an Addon for that..
Why is there no possibility to change different combat setups with skills, armor, cp etc??.. Again 2 more addons.
Why is there no timer for my skills??.. you could argue that they aren't nessecary but its still a very basic function. but I need an addon for that.
I could go on and on. Deleting them all would kill the experience for me. Are there Addons that should be removed? Yes. That freaking addon that tells you when you are targeted with a projectile ability so you can dodge it in PvP -> Ban it.
As for stuff like Raid notifier, Combat alerts and stuff like that... I'm not a fan of them tbh. Yet I still use them.
Why?
Because it is sometimes impossible to see the animations of enemies. Ever tanked a miniboss in vCR with 5 daedroth and a Necroult in your face? YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING. Without Combat alerts I would have to stand there in perma block beeing unable to do anything because I can't possibly see when the enemie charges a heavy attack.
And another thing:
Do you guys remember when the guildstore had no search feature what so ever? You needed an Addon for that.
Tbh because of addon we'll never get these feature in game.
If their were no addon, people will have made many many thread about these QoL and ZoS would have implement it already.
Why should they wast time if some random people do thius work freely ?
And then, console player are...[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Tbh because of addon we'll never get these feature in game.
If their were no addon, people will have made many many thread about these QoL and ZoS would have implement it already.
Why should they wast time if some random people do thius work freely ?
And then, console player are...
No. I do not believe this. They would not have implemented it, and perhaps, without the addons showing the way, never would have.0 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Tbh because of addon we'll never get these feature in game.
If their were no addon, people will have made many many thread about these QoL and ZoS would have implement it already.
Why should they wast time if some random people do thius work freely ?
And then, console player are...
They improved functionality in traders for the base game/console users because of add-ons.3 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭relentless_turnip wrote: »I appreciate this will be a very unpopular opinion, but I would really love ZOS to remove all third party software.
I would like to preface this by saying I love my add-ons and I don't think the ability to use them should be removed until ZOS adopts some of the most popular ones.
Add-ons like: action duration reminder,
Srendaar, dressing room, easy daily writ etc...
It has become more apparent to me overtime any reason to keep them is greatly outweighed by reasons to not have them.
I have always been one of those people who didn't think cheating was a thing or albeit such a rare thing that I never witnessed it. I am a pretty reasonable PvP player and it has always been my opinion that when I was beaten, I was beaten by a better player. I'm certain that a lot of the time that is still true. But after cheats for sale and seeing said cheats showcased on YouTube I now see the depth of the problem. I have also been to the website where they are sold and seen the insane amount of players who have purchased them. I have linked this site to zos btw...
On top of this it has been frequently said(I can't confirm this) that many functions and calculations were moved server side to eliminate manipulation of accessible game mechanics. If this is true, server strain could be greatly reduced by moving this all back to the client and making any detection of third party software an immediately bannable offence. This means our clients would process all the calculations and send the results to the server. It also means that currently accessible parts of the client could be completely inaccessible and encoded. With ESO implementing detection software that checks there is nothing added to the client that's shouldn't be there.
I appreciate this is a controversial subject, but I would like to hear a discussion around it regardless. Please try to keep it civil 👍
[snip]
a) Addons can't be used to cheat. It isn't possible to fly around and spam some rockets and other weird things.
ZOS defines the API and what is allowed. Furthermore, addons aren't really third party software. Software usually can just run. Addons can't.
b) Third party software (not Addons) are already forbidden to my knowledge. See the ToS.
c) The basics of network code is, that you never should trust client data as a server. This applies to everything. Your E-Banking shouldn't trust user input as it is always possible to send whatever you want. This can't be prevented. Same applies to ESO. Moving things to the client just makes writing cheats easier.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting and Rude Comments]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 8, 2020 6:29PMWe want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober
Addons:
RdK Group Tool: esoui DE EN FR
Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR - Library: DE EN
Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR5
https://youtu.be/8LOad7-RXCs