Bring crafting up to par with Overland sets? (jewelry crafting ...again)

Erock25 · April 2017

No

Crafted sets in this game are amazing compared to what MMO's usually give you. Except for Jewelry (which they should impenent), you can be like 98% as effective with crafting sets as you can with the best trials and dropped sets. Considering how easy it is to craft these items, it's ridiculous asking for a buff overall to crafting sets. Sure, we could use some more unique bonuses but from a DPS view, crafting sets are as good as they reasonably can be without removing all significance of dropped gear.

SilverWF · April 2017

Yes

Erock25 wrote: »

Except for Jewelry (which they should impenent)

yeah - eventually...

Erock25 wrote: »

you can be like 98% as effective with crafting sets as you can with the best trials and dropped sets.

You are the funny one.

Nemesis7884 · April 2017

style change - yes...i think as soon as you acquired a motif you should be allowed to change any item into that style - except maybe named uniques...

as for the rest, i would genreally prefer if they rather changed all sets in a way so that the now top sets aren't so "straight" forward...i rather prefer there were more diverse sets with a "5" bonus that isnt just straight more damage / efficieny, but rather something special / interesting....

hundings for example...something like this i would change or delete, it's just boring

Violynne · April 2017

Yes

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

I am not saying that these sets should be reworked to be more powerful than their dropped counterparts, but I think they should at least be put on par with them.

I voted "Yes", but I'm challenging this statement!

A couple of days ago, I made the statement (now in my signature): "Dungeons are were we take our best gear, not where we get it."

Prior to 1T, if I wanted the better gear from overland crafting stations, I had to have a minimum number of researched items. This directly tied my skill with the item and it worked.

Now, I find myself wondering why in the hell I'm wasting my time spending skill points into useless skill trees.

Oh, that's right. I remember now. This is the only way I can get the drops to improve that dropped gear.

I just spent all day yesterday getting two more pieces to the Dreamer's Mantle in Stormhaven. By the sheerest of luck, before I left the area because I was both bored and frustrated, the final boss dropped me purple boots with the Divines trait.

That was my "struck by lightning" moment... on an Overland set.

Now, the game will punish me for the rest of my days, and my skills won't save me.

theslynx · April 2017

Sets that see little usage in things like veteran content should probably see some buffs, and crafting options for jewelry would be great. I'm not sure crafted sets should categorically match the best dropped sets across the board, but many could be a bit better than they are now. It's a pretty significant grind to level up the disciplines then research all the traits, and I think that should come with better payoff; but I can understand not wanting to make crafting a complete replacement for most other equipment grinding.

Honestly, though, this game has so many sets that many are bound to be weak. I don't know what you do to fix that which doesn't upset some people who for whatever reason like those items.

FuriousFridge · April 2017

MakoFore wrote: »

crafting should be much stronger than grinding sets- the perseverance and reward for researching traits should be superior to farming a location. i think Zos wanted to make things easier for the new player- hence the double xp bonus and the ability to quickly acquire set bonuses for newer players. u can be a noob and within a week be cp160 with a monster set, 5 piece red mountain and spriggans. for me to get to cp160 took ages and i remember wearing something dire like 2piece marksman, 3 piece leki + 2piece sithis and 2 piece endurance - a hodge podge of whatever i could get as a lowly solo player learning on my own. but it was fine because i had something to aim for and look forward to. there was a real sense of growth and progression , seeing my player get stronger and mobs get easier. now with levelling and all the new changes- i dont know.

i agree with all of what uve said PLUS i d like to see nirnohoned buffed again too. for one- its meant to be the mythic and best trait, but itsnt and secondly it would revive what is a dead area in craglorn -which also should be a haven for vets and experienced players to converge, do writs, group up for trials, etc and trade - as it once was.

they are aware of these things and actively do things to encourage areas- look at what theyre doing with orsinium this week- a clear attempt at pushing an area that has died down and to revive maelstrom. but imo there are other areas and industries that need more love and attention right now- in particular - crafting. it used to mean something to be a 9 trait crafter, now that I'm finally almost there- I'm at 8- it almost seems like a whole bunch of nothing . other than 2bs - there isn t much incentive when a spriggans or a leviathan can do almost or as well according to some number crunchers.

No. Crafted items should not be stronger than dropped sets.

FuriousFridge · April 2017

billp_ESO wrote: »

In any game, for crafting to be really useful, crafted things need to be the best items in the game.

Crafted items have to be better than any dropped items.

Perhaps use special dropped mats to make special crafted sets, so that there is still a reason to kill that major boss. But the drops CANNOT be better than crafted items.

I'm assuming you've never played another game before then so your saying your crafted gear should be better than the sets you get out of trials?

sekou_trayvond · April 2017

Other (explain)

Meh.

I understand why overland sets are more powerful and that is because ZoS wants the game world to be populated by people cavorting about to land that piece they want.

Would I like some buffs to crafted sets? Sure. Who wouldn't? But I get why they are more niche now aside from Hundings and Julianos.

Just add an ability to transmogrify dropped gear all into a particular style and I'll be happy.

RT_Frank · April 2017

Yes

Only if they make an incentive for people to keep running vet trials, dungeons, and arenas. Because if they don't then there would be little to no reason to run these. They could add cosmetics, housing items (in addition to the busts I mean), or excellent souces of gold from completing these.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · April 2017

Yes

Overland sets have jewelry, so should crafted sets.

KnsCtyShful · April 2017

Yes

With how this game is setup crafted sets can't be as good as dropped sets because then there would be no reason to play except for PVP.

With that said they should at least make crafting relevant. They could do that by:

1. Allowing people to change styles on dropped gear
2. Allowing the traits to be changed on dropped gear
3. Allowing for the crafting and upgrading of Jewelry
4. A small buff to crafted sets

Beardimus · April 2017

Yes

I hope when gear cap moves all old sets stay CP160 so the grinding farmers can cry and crafted gear goes up to CP180/200 to bring it back in the fold.

Caligamy_ESO · June 2017

Yes

(beat you to it)

Caligamy_ESO · August 2017

Yes

It's been almost a year since I posted this, and nothing but absolute silence from ZoS on it. There are 1000s of threads throughout the forums asking for it as far back as early 2014, and providing ideas for it and I can't really recall there ever being an official response to it like, "were looking into this in the future, no eta" or... anything really.

At least transmogrification is in the works I guess, it would just be nice if Zeni would throw us a bone in regards to this as crafting is literally the longest time grind that exists in the game and it's all for naught. Sure you can get by in normal PvE with it and some veteran PvE but you are fooling yourself if you don't think crafted builds are sub-par. Originally they said they intended crafting to be relevant in end game but as far as I can tell its sole purpose is going to remain just training gear for leveling, furniture, and cosmetics for a long while.

Now if only I had realized this before I spent millions on motifs and traits. Overland grinders have it way too easy in comparison even with the horrible rng lottery.

QUEZ420 · August 2017

Yes

I mean cmon lol every other mmo on the market has jewelcrafting.... its an mmo standard.

SanTii.92 · August 2017

No

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

I actually had to count how many crafted sets were available, couldn't believe there are 35... so many underwhelming sets.

MCGA!

Now count how many overland/dungeon ones are and tell how many of those are useless too.

Caligamy_ESO · August 2017

Yes

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

I actually had to count how many crafted sets were available, couldn't believe there are 35... so many underwhelming sets.

MCGA!

Now count how many overland/dungeon ones are and tell how many of those are useless too.

How many overland sets take 3,066 hours to just get access to? How many of the 'meta' builds involve crafted sets?

Overland set farmers have it waaaaaay too easy.

ckpwn · August 2017

Yes

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

I actually had to count how many crafted sets were available, couldn't believe there are 35... so many underwhelming sets.

MCGA!

Now count how many overland/dungeon ones are and tell how many of those are useless too.

How many overland sets take 3,066 hours to just get access to? How many of the 'meta' builds involve crafted sets?

Overland set farmers have it waaaaaay too easy.

I just wait on Pledges day to farm the dungeon i need set from.. most normal are easy to solo, vet a bit more tricky.. Group finder is broken but if you have a toon who can tank or heal you dont need t wait more than 30sec to 1 min between each dungeon farm and you get all your gears in only few hours. Now on the other side, you need to spend gold or farm mats to craft set pieces and it can take more time to gather those mats or the gold to get those mats than farming dungeon.. adding to the research time to craft it just a big waste of time !! the only good thing about crafting right now are the daily writs making "passif income" using addon to auto craft writs and stuff making all 6 daily writs complete in less than 4 min per toon and a good amount of gold and temper coming from that. swap toon and repeat for more easy gold !! I have so many nice motif that i'll never craft, so many set pieces i've unlock that i'm not even aware of what they do.. Adding jewellery could help a lot to try new toon and not having to farm few hours for drop set because you could craft 2 full set and not having to worry about the few less DPS ou would get from not having the BIS becase you know the time you play tat toon is worth the fun and not grinding and spending hours doing the same content you've already done many many time in those month of researching all trait !!

Emma_Overload · August 2017

Yes

They don't necessarily have to build jewelry crafting, they could just introduce the jewelry for crafted sets as BoE loot drops.

Chronicburn · September 2017

Yes

Yes to all! I can't believe this isn't a thing yet!

Runefang · September 2017

No

Should jewellery be craftable? Yes

Should crafting sets be on par with overland sets? No

Personally I think anything you have to farm for, even a little, should be better than crafted in my opinion. Crafted gear should be the first point of entry for gearing up a max level toon, then overland sets, then dungeons, then trial gear.

Betheny · September 2017

Yes

Runefang wrote: »

Should jewellery be craftable? Yes

Should crafting sets be on par with overland sets? No

Personally I think anything you have to farm for, even a little, should be better than crafted in my opinion. Crafted gear should be the first point of entry for gearing up a max level toon, then overland sets, then dungeons, then trial gear.

One or two etc researched trait crafted sets sure, but 9 researched trait sets should be amazing and equal to any dropped set.

They could add more traits then to research and let crafted sets keep up with current content always.

PurpleDrank · September 2017

Yes

All for crafting jewelry.

As far as what should be more powerful, I think they should all be equally viable - in various situations. There should be reason for people to craft and do dungeons, and to play around with combinations of the different sets to figure out what works with their playstyle. Variety is the spice of life after all.

Iluvrien · September 2017

Yes

Runefang wrote: »

Should jewellery be craftable? Yes

Should crafting sets be on par with overland sets? No

Personally I think anything you have to farm for, even a little, should be better than crafted in my opinion. Crafted gear should be the first point of entry for gearing up a max level toon, then overland sets, then dungeons, then trial gear.

The original creative director for ESO (Paul Sage) disagrees with you:

Q: In end game on ESO, will the Crafting gear be equivalent or better then dungeon drops?

A: Crafted gear of equal level and equal quality rating is always better than dropped gear from a numerical standpoint. Weapons do more damage, armor has more… armor. However, certain enchantments can only be found on drops. Crafters can always improve those items which have unique enchantments.

Required farming is a rotten concept used to prolong the life of content over and above any time where it remains fun.

It is a lazy approach to game design that people have accepted and so it has become the norm.

STEVIL · September 2017

Yes

Iluvrien wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Should jewellery be craftable? Yes

Should crafting sets be on par with overland sets? No

Personally I think anything you have to farm for, even a little, should be better than crafted in my opinion. Crafted gear should be the first point of entry for gearing up a max level toon, then overland sets, then dungeons, then trial gear.

The original creative director for ESO (Paul Sage) disagrees with you:

Q: In end game on ESO, will the Crafting gear be equivalent or better then dungeon drops?

A: Crafted gear of equal level and equal quality rating is always better than dropped gear from a numerical standpoint. Weapons do more damage, armor has more… armor. However, certain enchantments can only be found on drops. Crafters can always improve those items which have unique enchantments.

Required farming is a rotten concept used to prolong the life of content over and above any time where it remains fun.

It is a lazy approach to game design that people have accepted and so it has become the norm.

yes but their decision changed as to what was appropriate. Citing a pre-game launch quote only shows they changed their minds, not any universal truth. Then again, in three years, they have changed their minds on many things, gaining experience as to what works and doesn't with their audience.

As for me, i DO NOT want jewel crafting. What i want instead is to overhaul the craft/drops to make drop sets not have weapons, just like crafted sets do not have jewels. That way, every end-game-build would likely be comprised of one crafted, one drop and then misc odd-balls - likely drops like monsters or rings or whatever.

That way, the interactions between dropped and crafted cease to be competitive - which **should** be better blah blah _ and instead becomes collaborative.

While a few crafted sets are worthwhile now in content where it really matters, mostly equip crafting is more used for alterations of drop sets. the new transmog will only add to that in all likelihood.

letting "weapon sets" be crafted also yanks one of the more difficult RNG elements away.

For maelstrom and master and asylum type weapons, since they are "sets of their own" you could elect to have the drops be mats/tokens needed for crafting. instead of a weapon, they could drop either a maelstrom alloy or stain usable in crafting to provide the maelstrom boost, etc.

Would be a chapter sized change so not holding my breath.

pod88kk · September 2017

YAAAAAAAAASSSSS

Qbiken · September 2017

No

For the sake of balance in this game I hope jewel crafting never get added to the game.

DocFrost72 · September 2017

Yes

STEVIL wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Should jewellery be craftable? Yes

Should crafting sets be on par with overland sets? No

Personally I think anything you have to farm for, even a little, should be better than crafted in my opinion. Crafted gear should be the first point of entry for gearing up a max level toon, then overland sets, then dungeons, then trial gear.

The original creative director for ESO (Paul Sage) disagrees with you:

Q: In end game on ESO, will the Crafting gear be equivalent or better then dungeon drops?

A: Crafted gear of equal level and equal quality rating is always better than dropped gear from a numerical standpoint. Weapons do more damage, armor has more… armor. However, certain enchantments can only be found on drops. Crafters can always improve those items which have unique enchantments.

Required farming is a rotten concept used to prolong the life of content over and above any time where it remains fun.

It is a lazy approach to game design that people have accepted and so it has become the norm.

yes but their decision changed as to what was appropriate. Citing a pre-game launch quote only shows they changed their minds, not any universal truth. Then again, in three years, they have changed their minds on many things, gaining experience as to what works and doesn't with their audience.

As for me, i DO NOT want jewel crafting. What i want instead is to overhaul the craft/drops to make drop sets not have weapons, just like crafted sets do not have jewels. That way, every end-game-build would likely be comprised of one crafted, one drop and then misc odd-balls - likely drops like monsters or rings or whatever.

That way, the interactions between dropped and crafted cease to be competitive - which **should** be better blah blah _ and instead becomes collaborative.

While a few crafted sets are worthwhile now in content where it really matters, mostly equip crafting is more used for alterations of drop sets. the new transmog will only add to that in all likelihood.

letting "weapon sets" be crafted also yanks one of the more difficult RNG elements away.

For maelstrom and master and asylum type weapons, since they are "sets of their own" you could elect to have the drops be mats/tokens needed for crafting. instead of a weapon, they could drop either a maelstrom alloy or stain usable in crafting to provide the maelstrom boost, etc.

Would be a chapter sized change so not holding my breath.

Bold: Unless you're willing to make sets like VO or twice fanged serpent craftable, this will be a massive nerf to end game setups for no other reason than it "works better ", while magicka still gets Julianos and IA/moondancer.

In short, I'm gunna say no.

Sharee · September 2017

No

Having jewelry not craftable ensures that both crafted and dropped sets remain useful and desirable.

It elegantly solves the ages-old MMO dilemma of whether crafted or dropped sets should be more powerful. In ESO, you want one of each - crafted because it is easier to customize (heavy/medium/light piece of any set), and dropped because of jewelry.

STEVIL · September 2017

Yes

DocFrost72 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Should jewellery be craftable? Yes

Should crafting sets be on par with overland sets? No

Personally I think anything you have to farm for, even a little, should be better than crafted in my opinion. Crafted gear should be the first point of entry for gearing up a max level toon, then overland sets, then dungeons, then trial gear.

The original creative director for ESO (Paul Sage) disagrees with you:

Q: In end game on ESO, will the Crafting gear be equivalent or better then dungeon drops?

A: Crafted gear of equal level and equal quality rating is always better than dropped gear from a numerical standpoint. Weapons do more damage, armor has more… armor. However, certain enchantments can only be found on drops. Crafters can always improve those items which have unique enchantments.

Required farming is a rotten concept used to prolong the life of content over and above any time where it remains fun.

It is a lazy approach to game design that people have accepted and so it has become the norm.

yes but their decision changed as to what was appropriate. Citing a pre-game launch quote only shows they changed their minds, not any universal truth. Then again, in three years, they have changed their minds on many things, gaining experience as to what works and doesn't with their audience.

As for me, i DO NOT want jewel crafting. What i want instead is to overhaul the craft/drops to make drop sets not have weapons, just like crafted sets do not have jewels. That way, every end-game-build would likely be comprised of one crafted, one drop and then misc odd-balls - likely drops like monsters or rings or whatever.

That way, the interactions between dropped and crafted cease to be competitive - which **should** be better blah blah _ and instead becomes collaborative.

While a few crafted sets are worthwhile now in content where it really matters, mostly equip crafting is more used for alterations of drop sets. the new transmog will only add to that in all likelihood.

letting "weapon sets" be crafted also yanks one of the more difficult RNG elements away.

For maelstrom and master and asylum type weapons, since they are "sets of their own" you could elect to have the drops be mats/tokens needed for crafting. instead of a weapon, they could drop either a maelstrom alloy or stain usable in crafting to provide the maelstrom boost, etc.

Would be a chapter sized change so not holding my breath.

Bold: Unless you're willing to make sets like VO or twice fanged serpent craftable, this will be a massive nerf to end game setups for no other reason than it "works better ", while magicka still gets Julianos and IA/moondancer.

In short, I'm gunna say no.

Obviously any significant change in how sets and cratfing works will **change** or reset the top end meta builds and scores.Whether that will be to a higher value than any and every previous build/meta there has ever been prior to that (its silly to compare theoretical future changes to just this current one, right, cuz this current one wont last past CWC) will depend on the vast set of changes made at that time and between now and then.

But i am confused by your examples, since the magica case you seem to be OK with is a crafted plus drops combo while the stamina examples have Hundings/NMG available for its crafted options and then the other drop sets available for the drops. Whatever your point was, it seems to be that some crafted/drop cobos are good enough.

But, no matter what it comes down to after any change the new balance will be determined by the new changes.

Upsetting the current meta and meta-scores-de-jour is not something i am ever concerned with anywhere close to where we end up because the existing meta and meta-scores-de-jour is and will always be just transients.