Bring crafting up to par with Overland sets? (jewelry crafting ...again)

DocFrost72 · September 2017

Yes

STEVIL wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Should jewellery be craftable? Yes

Should crafting sets be on par with overland sets? No

Personally I think anything you have to farm for, even a little, should be better than crafted in my opinion. Crafted gear should be the first point of entry for gearing up a max level toon, then overland sets, then dungeons, then trial gear.

The original creative director for ESO (Paul Sage) disagrees with you:

Q: In end game on ESO, will the Crafting gear be equivalent or better then dungeon drops?

A: Crafted gear of equal level and equal quality rating is always better than dropped gear from a numerical standpoint. Weapons do more damage, armor has more… armor. However, certain enchantments can only be found on drops. Crafters can always improve those items which have unique enchantments.

Required farming is a rotten concept used to prolong the life of content over and above any time where it remains fun.

It is a lazy approach to game design that people have accepted and so it has become the norm.

yes but their decision changed as to what was appropriate. Citing a pre-game launch quote only shows they changed their minds, not any universal truth. Then again, in three years, they have changed their minds on many things, gaining experience as to what works and doesn't with their audience.

As for me, i DO NOT want jewel crafting. What i want instead is to overhaul the craft/drops to make drop sets not have weapons, just like crafted sets do not have jewels. That way, every end-game-build would likely be comprised of one crafted, one drop and then misc odd-balls - likely drops like monsters or rings or whatever.

That way, the interactions between dropped and crafted cease to be competitive - which **should** be better blah blah _ and instead becomes collaborative.

While a few crafted sets are worthwhile now in content where it really matters, mostly equip crafting is more used for alterations of drop sets. the new transmog will only add to that in all likelihood.

letting "weapon sets" be crafted also yanks one of the more difficult RNG elements away.

For maelstrom and master and asylum type weapons, since they are "sets of their own" you could elect to have the drops be mats/tokens needed for crafting. instead of a weapon, they could drop either a maelstrom alloy or stain usable in crafting to provide the maelstrom boost, etc.

Would be a chapter sized change so not holding my breath.

Bold: Unless you're willing to make sets like VO or twice fanged serpent craftable, this will be a massive nerf to end game setups for no other reason than it "works better ", while magicka still gets Julianos and IA/moondancer.

In short, I'm gunna say no.

Obviously any significant change in how sets and cratfing works will **change** or reset the top end meta builds and scores.Whether that will be to a higher value than any and every previous build/meta there has ever been prior to that (its silly to compare theoretical future changes to just this current one, right, cuz this current one wont last past CWC) will depend on the vast set of changes made at that time and between now and then.

But i am confused by your examples, since the magica case you seem to be OK with is a crafted plus drops combo while the stamina examples have Hundings/NMG available for its crafted options and then the other drop sets available for the drops. Whatever your point was, it seems to be that some crafted/drop cobos are good enough.

But, no matter what it comes down to after any change the new balance will be determined by the new changes.

Upsetting the current meta and meta-scores-de-jour is not something i am ever concerned with anywhere close to where we end up because the existing meta and meta-scores-de-jour is and will always be just transients.

You misunderstood. You would, invariably, decrease stamina dps by making their bread and butter (5vo, 5tfs and monster helm) impossible where magicka can still use an end game setup.

If it were up to making crafted sets meaning something, all you'd have to do is make their set bonuses comparable to drops and then you'd never need to touch drop sets. Instead, we get bonuses like slayer that are exclusive to drop gear. Not to mention, have you seen the difference between magicka and stamina drop sets? VO's 5 pieces gives 129 weapon damage, major expedition and stamina back on a kill, as well as an 8% cost reduction. No crafted set will ever compete with that.

That is the only change you need, make craft sets worthwhile.

The solution you propose is akin to installing ACs at floor level and using industrial ceiling fans to suck the cold air upwards instead of just moving the ACs higher in the room.

Tyreal1974 · September 2017

Yes

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

COME ON ZOS! You yourselves said early on that you wanted crafting to remain relevant in end game, and more and more it becomes a tool only for leveling and ultimately just gets discarded at end game. You keep pumping out motif after motif putting all that time and effort into production, but nobody can use them effectively in the end anyway. Can we at least have a word on whether this is being looked at? Considered? Shunned?

A REALLY REALLY REALLY small sample of jewelry crafting threads for the past 3 years. Some of these date back to early 2014.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/339713/jewelry-crafting-system-when
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/345542/suggestion-trial-monster-sets-and-jewelry-crafting
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/296445/jewelry-crafting
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/341937/crafted-sets-need-jewelry-also
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/160696/jewelry-crafting-still-waiting-and-hoping
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/280716/jewelry-crafting-do-you-support-it
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/340958/should-jewelry-versions-of-craft-sets-drop-in-their-zones (kinda related)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/310554/do-something-with-jewelry
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/223459/suggestion-for-implementing-jewelry-crafting
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/282018/can-we-get-jewelry-crafting-plz
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/250223/jewelry-crafting-actual-jewelry-that-we-can-see
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3890844#Comment_3890844
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4162634#Comment_4162634
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4172437#Comment_4172437
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196130/jewelry-crafting
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/296481/easy-way-to-implement-jewelry-crafting
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219005/when-are-we-getting-jewelry-crafting
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3410025#Comment_3410025
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3931149#Comment_3931149
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3621607#Comment_3621607
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3368186#Comment_3368186
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/250123/all-those-new-motifs-in-tg-dlc-are-nice-but
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4109633#Comment_4109633
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241885/this-is-how-jewelry-crafting-should-be-added-to-eso
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/213811/how-to-improve-hirelings-and-theory-of-how-to-make-jewelry-crafting-great
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/141957/will-there-ever-be-jewelry-crafting-in-the-elder-scrolls-online
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3865909#Comment_3865909
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3992864#Comment_3992864
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/330231/jewelry-crafting
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/248393/zos-if-you-wont-give-us-jewelry-crafting
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3900338#Comment_3900338
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/264484/will-you-go-for-jewelry-crafting-if-available/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/305661/jewelry-improvement/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/304158/do-you-still-find-crafting-rewarding-in-one-tamriel-what-is-your-experience/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/338983/what-happened-to-these-things
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3816561#Comment_3816561

(beat you to it)

Thank you for taking the time to research and find all of these threads to highlight the communities interest in this option and a +1 AWESOME for that!

STEVIL · September 2017

Yes

DocFrost72 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Should jewellery be craftable? Yes

Should crafting sets be on par with overland sets? No

Personally I think anything you have to farm for, even a little, should be better than crafted in my opinion. Crafted gear should be the first point of entry for gearing up a max level toon, then overland sets, then dungeons, then trial gear.

The original creative director for ESO (Paul Sage) disagrees with you:

Q: In end game on ESO, will the Crafting gear be equivalent or better then dungeon drops?

A: Crafted gear of equal level and equal quality rating is always better than dropped gear from a numerical standpoint. Weapons do more damage, armor has more… armor. However, certain enchantments can only be found on drops. Crafters can always improve those items which have unique enchantments.

Required farming is a rotten concept used to prolong the life of content over and above any time where it remains fun.

It is a lazy approach to game design that people have accepted and so it has become the norm.

yes but their decision changed as to what was appropriate. Citing a pre-game launch quote only shows they changed their minds, not any universal truth. Then again, in three years, they have changed their minds on many things, gaining experience as to what works and doesn't with their audience.

As for me, i DO NOT want jewel crafting. What i want instead is to overhaul the craft/drops to make drop sets not have weapons, just like crafted sets do not have jewels. That way, every end-game-build would likely be comprised of one crafted, one drop and then misc odd-balls - likely drops like monsters or rings or whatever.

That way, the interactions between dropped and crafted cease to be competitive - which **should** be better blah blah _ and instead becomes collaborative.

While a few crafted sets are worthwhile now in content where it really matters, mostly equip crafting is more used for alterations of drop sets. the new transmog will only add to that in all likelihood.

letting "weapon sets" be crafted also yanks one of the more difficult RNG elements away.

For maelstrom and master and asylum type weapons, since they are "sets of their own" you could elect to have the drops be mats/tokens needed for crafting. instead of a weapon, they could drop either a maelstrom alloy or stain usable in crafting to provide the maelstrom boost, etc.

Would be a chapter sized change so not holding my breath.

Bold: Unless you're willing to make sets like VO or twice fanged serpent craftable, this will be a massive nerf to end game setups for no other reason than it "works better ", while magicka still gets Julianos and IA/moondancer.

In short, I'm gunna say no.

Obviously any significant change in how sets and cratfing works will **change** or reset the top end meta builds and scores.Whether that will be to a higher value than any and every previous build/meta there has ever been prior to that (its silly to compare theoretical future changes to just this current one, right, cuz this current one wont last past CWC) will depend on the vast set of changes made at that time and between now and then.

But i am confused by your examples, since the magica case you seem to be OK with is a crafted plus drops combo while the stamina examples have Hundings/NMG available for its crafted options and then the other drop sets available for the drops. Whatever your point was, it seems to be that some crafted/drop cobos are good enough.

But, no matter what it comes down to after any change the new balance will be determined by the new changes.

Upsetting the current meta and meta-scores-de-jour is not something i am ever concerned with anywhere close to where we end up because the existing meta and meta-scores-de-jour is and will always be just transients.

You misunderstood. You would, invariably, decrease stamina dps by making their bread and butter (5vo, 5tfs and monster helm) impossible where magicka can still use an end game setup.

If it were up to making crafted sets meaning something, all you'd have to do is make their set bonuses comparable to drops and then you'd never need to touch drop sets. Instead, we get bonuses like slayer that are exclusive to drop gear. Not to mention, have you seen the difference between magicka and stamina drop sets? VO's 5 pieces gives 129 weapon damage, major expedition and stamina back on a kill, as well as an 8% cost reduction. No crafted set will ever compete with that.

That is the only change you need, make craft sets worthwhile.

The solution you propose is akin to installing ACs at floor level and using industrial ceiling fans to suck the cold air upwards instead of just moving the ACs higher in the room.

Again you focus on the right now current meta scores for one set combo, which ignores that the game existed and played long before that single pair meta top scores for the win were "the one" and the game will go on long after that one combo is no longer the Stan 12pc shoebox of content meta.

What you are focusing on is keeping a current temporary symptom active, the drops v craft competition. I am looking to cure the disease and end the competition.

Obviously the sets de jour and numbers de jour will change patch to patch so to me fighting to hold onto one current pairing is not sound design process, but I can see how often many object to changes which impact their current gear.

Different strokes.

AtraisMachina · September 2017

No

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread

NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

Caligamy_ESO · September 2017

Yes

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread

NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

It takes one day of hard farming to usually complete a overland set, it takes 3066 hours to master trait research in crafting. What are you even talking about?

STEVIL · September 2017

Yes

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread

NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

Sounds like flawed logic.

Item 1 Consumables. Consumable crafting requires similar investment in skills far less time to develop and "trait" than equip crafting does... Yet crafted consumables are essentia and clearly superior to drops. Don't see anybody arguing that boss dropped potions and glyphs should be good, do you?
So, within the game, not by some external set of morals about how hard it is to beat that pixel vs the other pixel, there is a serious inconsistency.

Item 2 Investment. Crafting requires a lot of time and skill points on top of the various ones needed for combat. Spending a lot of time and skills and getting something to basically beef up the drops seems out of whack.

But really, to me I have no prob with folks who want their big dog reward for beating up pixels to be top slot gear. I also want the ones who spent time on and skills on crafting to get top gear and consistency between consumes and equip.

Which is where giving crafted their own unique slots and letting drops keep their existing unique slots makes sense to me.

BrightOblivion · September 2017

Yes

I've been fervently hoping for jewelry-crafting since about the time I discovered it didn't exist. Not because I'm lazy, not because I don't do vet content, but because it's a major gap in both builds and player capability.

We can make entire sets of armor in what, nearly 60 styles, upgrade it, and enchant it, can make gourmet meals and amazing potions, but can't grasp how to create rings and necklaces, and must stumble across them out in the wilderness? Seriously? Being able to choose "Okay, I want these pieces of this set, and these pieces of that set," and being able to truly mix and match would be phenomenal. As to those who claim it'll cause people to not run vet trials any more, exactly how many runs does it take to get purple or gold jewlery from people who don't need it or already have it? Less than 10, I suspect. That really doesn't seem like a valid incentive/ opposition argument to me. Let me do something with my countless jewelry pieces from vet dungeons that I'm never going to use, other than selling them to the vendor.

For those people crying for one set to be objectively better than another, simply because of where you got it, that's not how this game is balanced or built. Zones are scaled and of equivalent difficulty, outside of Craglorn, and there's no defined lockstep progression. Should you do normal dungeons and trials before vet dungeons and trials? Certainly. But there's no "must get gear from vet wayrest 1 to do and get gear from vet WGT before gear from vet Falkreath before AA before Maw." And there shouldn't be. It's antithetical to the entire premise of playing the game in the order you want. Let WoW be WoW and do WoW's progression thing. Let ESO not. In truth, I'm far more of the opinion that gear set X should be great for build Y when lacking stat Z, regardless of where X comes from. Adapt to what you need and what you're doing.

Now, maybe the trial set can give stat Z somewhat more efficiently, but those 9 trait sets shouldn't be eclipsed entirely (or entirely eclipse other sets) just because they're crafted. I've finished every vet dungeon but the Horns of the Reach ones, and almost finished the normal versions of every trial (up to Assembly General's burn-phase). The only normal instances I haven't entered are Maelstrom and DSA. In that time, constantly researching in the background, I'm working on 3 9th-trait woodworking items and am finishing up my 7th traits on clothier and blacksmithing. That's with all passives leveled. As others have said, it's a massive timesuck.

@STEVIL What your idea chiefly does is further inhibit my ability to mix and match. Not only would I be unable combine two crafted sets, I'd also be unable to combine two overland/dungeon/trials sets and be further pigeon-holed in terms of types of sets I *must* wear. SPC/Worm? TFS/VO? Nope. Must have crafted weapons. It's the complete exact opposite of the direction I want and would like to see us go. As such, I fervently oppose.

Courteously.

Bam_Bam · September 2017

Yes

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread

NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

LOL shut up and put the drugs away.

Bam_Bam · September 2017

Yes

I havea feeling that there will be some huge changes coming that will make crafting much more important to the game; rather than something than doing master writs. The people who have spent hours and even years becoming a master crafter should

absolutely be making the best gear in the game - that is what a master crafter does.

Chronicburn · September 2017

Yes

It takes more time than most have these kids have been out of diapers to master all the crafting traits. Crafted sets need a buff and a jewelry option!

AtraisMachina · September 2017

No

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread

NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

It takes one day of hard farming to usually complete a overland set, it takes 3066 hours to master trait research in crafting. What are you even talking about?

You guys are so entitled lol

STEVIL wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread

NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

Sounds like flawed logic.

Item 1 Consumables. Consumable crafting requires similar investment in skills far less time to develop and "trait" than equip crafting does... Yet crafted consumables are essentia and clearly superior to drops. Don't see anybody arguing that boss dropped potions and glyphs should be good, do you?
So, within the game, not by some external set of morals about how hard it is to beat that pixel vs the other pixel, there is a serious inconsistency.

Item 2 Investment. Crafting requires a lot of time and skill points on top of the various ones needed for combat. Spending a lot of time and skills and getting something to basically beef up the drops seems out of whack.

But really, to me I have no prob with folks who want their big dog reward for beating up pixels to be top slot gear. I also want the ones who spent time on and skills on crafting to get top gear and consistency between consumes and equip.

Which is where giving crafted their own unique slots and letting drops keep their existing unique slots makes sense to me.

This is exactly my point though. Crafting is EASY NEVER ANYWHERE DID I SAY I DIDNT TAKE TIME. Crafting takes no effort! All you have to do is click a button to research. Cool your time is worth alot to you COOL! Still doesnt insentivise people to challenge themselves. CRAFTING TAKES NO SKILL!!! Cool it takes skill points again gaining skill points TAKES NO SKILL. This argument is just casual catering. You want good stuff? L2p. clicking a button once or twice a week to research a trait doesn't entitle you to ANYTHING!!!!

Im totally down for more set diversity. But theres more to this conversation than that. You have to take into account how the game works.
You cant get the best stuff if your not doing the hardest stuff. Thats how MMOS WORK!!!

The_Protagonist · September 2017

Yes

Runefang wrote: »

Should jewellery be craftable? Yes

Should crafting sets be on par with overland sets? No

Personally I think anything you have to farm for, even a little, should be better than crafted in my opinion. Crafted gear should be the first point of entry for gearing up a max level toon, then overland sets, then dungeons, then trial gear.

You still have to farm nodes, pray that RNG gives you enough tempers and sink time and money (nirhoned) for researching traits.

FloppyTouch · September 2017

Yes

Yes bc this would be great for low lvl pvp

AtraisMachina · September 2017

No

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Yes bc this would be great for low lvl pvp

Like this guy. Just doesnt take into account for how the game WORKS AT ALL!!!

AtraisMachina · September 2017

No

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Yes bc this would be great for low lvl pvp

Great IDEA!!! Lets decentivise ALL VET PVE CONTENT. So that low lvl pvpers can have the sets they want lol

FloppyTouch · September 2017

Yes

AtraisMachina wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Yes bc this would be great for low lvl pvp

Like this guy. Just doesnt take into account for how the game WORKS AT ALL!!!

And how does the game work then? You think that everything should just be a grind?

World drops and dungeons drops are still better even if we could craft jewelry. This just adds way more options and way more builds.

I remember being sold a game where the devs said that crafted sets would always be better then drop sets. Maybe you should tell the devs how there game works. Bc right now drops sets and for a long time have always been better.

Chronicburn · September 2017

Yes

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread

NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

It takes one day of hard farming to usually complete a overland set, it takes 3066 hours to master trait research in crafting. What are you even talking about?

You guys are so entitled lol

STEVIL wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread

NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

Sounds like flawed logic.

Item 1 Consumables. Consumable crafting requires similar investment in skills far less time to develop and "trait" than equip crafting does... Yet crafted consumables are essentia and clearly superior to drops. Don't see anybody arguing that boss dropped potions and glyphs should be good, do you?
So, within the game, not by some external set of morals about how hard it is to beat that pixel vs the other pixel, there is a serious inconsistency.

Item 2 Investment. Crafting requires a lot of time and skill points on top of the various ones needed for combat. Spending a lot of time and skills and getting something to basically beef up the drops seems out of whack.

But really, to me I have no prob with folks who want their big dog reward for beating up pixels to be top slot gear. I also want the ones who spent time on and skills on crafting to get top gear and consistency between consumes and equip.

Which is where giving crafted their own unique slots and letting drops keep their existing unique slots makes sense to me.

This is exactly my point though. Crafting is EASY NEVER ANYWHERE DID I SAY I DIDNT TAKE TIME. Crafting takes no effort! All you have to do is click a button to research. Cool your time is worth alot to you COOL! Still doesnt insentivise people to challenge themselves. CRAFTING TAKES NO SKILL!!! Cool it takes skill points again gaining skill points TAKES NO SKILL. This argument is just casual catering. You want good stuff? L2p. clicking a button once or twice a week to research a trait doesn't entitle you to ANYTHING!!!!

Im totally down for more set diversity. But theres more to this conversation than that. You have to take into account how the game works.
You cant get the best stuff if your not doing the hardest stuff. Thats how MMOS WORK!!!

I appreciate your passion but it appears 90% would like this. Only 6% against ...

Kurkikohtaus · September 2017

No

Something just occurred to me. If Jewellery crafting is impossible, where is all the dropped jewelry coming from? Who made it, and how?

zaria · September 2017

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread

NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

Overland sets just cost gold, on pc, armor for stuff like Necropotence is around 2-3 times price for crafted cp160 gear or 120*55=6600 Jewelry is a bit more expensive, if you go infused on robe its far cheaper than crafted.
Medium is far cheaper crafted because all the leather drops. Heavy armor is the same as light.
Overland bis weapons has been idiotic expensive probably a bit cheaper now than other traits than sharpened works.

ESO has no gear progression like it is in WOW there you do normal dungeons to gear up for veteran then start raid progression with that gear. In ESO an set like Julianos + necropotense is bis level for pet sorcerer.
Yes its crafted+ overland. Healer bis is spell power cure and worm who is two dungeon sets one from dlc dungeon.

Having crafted jewelry would just add more flexibility and it will even out difficulty of builds, main benefit of crafted has been easy to get weapons, this is an major one but will be reduced with trait change.

radiostar · September 2017

Yes

This is like the AH or Open Trader. WHAT are some players/Z so frightened of? How come it's ok for Willpower/Endurance/Agility to have weapons+jewels? To expand choices? But spending months on crafting doesn't let you craft or upgrade jewels? Come on, Z. You know that's dead!

Olupajmibanan · September 2017

Other (explain)

I agree with the jewelry crafting but only if they make it like glyphs. You can craft any quality glyph but you can't upgrade existing glyphs.

This is how jewelry crafting should work. Otherwise it would drastically reduce veteran PvE content popularity. You know it's actually hard to earn gold Moondancer jewelry? If they made jewelry crafting able to upgrade existing jewelry, I could just run normals for blue ones and upgrade them.

Earrindo · September 2017

I dont understand why crafted/dropped need to have a best.
Why cant crafted sets (and jewelry crafting) offer different bonuses to dropped sets?
What if dropped sets all had spell/weapon damage/regen and all crafted sets had crit/max magicka, stamina or health?
What if some crafted sets had procs and some dropped sets had procs all of somewhat equal power?

Why is it in these discussions there is so much talk of doom and gloom and where "the best" gear comes from? Why cant crafting get balanced to simply be on par with dropped sets?

I feel as though there is a fundamental disconnect for people in these threads. On the one hand, you have the single player ES players, and coming from those games, crafted gear was, eventually, the best gear, because the player made enchantments were more often than not much more powerful than even the best dropped gear due to raw stat inflation from potions consumed before crafting.
Players coming from other MMOs cannot understand this, as in most MMOs crafted gear acts as a stepping stone to the higher end gear from dungeons and raids. You craft a set of gear to get started on the gear treadmill, but very rarely is crafted gear viable in end-game content.

What I think people asking for jewelry crafting are actually looking for is simply more value given to crafting in general, as opposed to making crafted gear "BiS" (which by the way doesnt really exist in the way most people dicuss it, not in ESO anyway)
Being able to craft your own gear from the ground up is a satisfying concept to someone coming from a single player ES game, but to those coming from more standard MMOs it seems outrageous for crafted gear to even approach the status of "BiS".

TL;DR
Everyone is going to have a different opinion about this based on where they are coming from as a gamer, and in the end it is up to ZoS to decide if they want to add it or not. There are good arguments to be made from both sides.

STEVIL · September 2017

Yes

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread

NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

It takes one day of hard farming to usually complete a overland set, it takes 3066 hours to master trait research in crafting. What are you even talking about?

You guys are so entitled lol

STEVIL wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread

NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

Sounds like flawed logic.

Item 1 Consumables. Consumable crafting requires similar investment in skills far less time to develop and "trait" than equip crafting does... Yet crafted consumables are essentia and clearly superior to drops. Don't see anybody arguing that boss dropped potions and glyphs should be good, do you?
So, within the game, not by some external set of morals about how hard it is to beat that pixel vs the other pixel, there is a serious inconsistency.

Item 2 Investment. Crafting requires a lot of time and skill points on top of the various ones needed for combat. Spending a lot of time and skills and getting something to basically beef up the drops seems out of whack.

But really, to me I have no prob with folks who want their big dog reward for beating up pixels to be top slot gear. I also want the ones who spent time on and skills on crafting to get top gear and consistency between consumes and equip.

Which is where giving crafted their own unique slots and letting drops keep their existing unique slots makes sense to me.

This is exactly my point though. Crafting is EASY NEVER ANYWHERE DID I SAY I DIDNT TAKE TIME. Crafting takes no effort! All you have to do is click a button to research. Cool your time is worth alot to you COOL! Still doesnt insentivise people to challenge themselves. CRAFTING TAKES NO SKILL!!! Cool it takes skill points again gaining skill points TAKES NO SKILL. This argument is just casual catering. You want good stuff? L2p. clicking a button once or twice a week to research a trait doesn't entitle you to ANYTHING!!!!

Im totally down for more set diversity. But theres more to this conversation than that. You have to take into account how the game works.
You cant get the best stuff if your not doing the hardest stuff. Thats how MMOS WORK!!!

Got it... your preferred button clicking is more entitled to rewards than some other's preferred button clicking.
Your preferred button clicking is skill but other people's button clicking is not skill.. got it.
I see you think that and i suppose from your perspective it makes sense and obviously from the frequent CAPS you feel very strongly about it.

and that is why you have made posts or started threads about the obvious "problem" of how crafted potions, foods poisons and glyphs are not entitled to be better than the drops? I mean, those don't even have the benefit of being a long time to master to the point of getting you to the top-end craftables, right?

To me however, from my perspective, one where i do not choose to say "my clicks are more entitled than other folks" i see there being two disconnects within the game design, two glaring inconsistencies in terms of what crafting's role in the game is supposed to be.

They were outlined above so no need to repeat them.

STEVIL · September 2017

Yes

Earrindo wrote: »

I dont understand why crafted/dropped need to have a best.
Why cant crafted sets (and jewelry crafting) offer different bonuses to dropped sets?
What if dropped sets all had spell/weapon damage/regen and all crafted sets had crit/max magicka, stamina or health?
What if some crafted sets had procs and some dropped sets had procs all of somewhat equal power?

Why is it in these discussions there is so much talk of doom and gloom and where "the best" gear comes from? Why cant crafting get balanced to simply be on par with dropped sets?

I feel as though there is a fundamental disconnect for people in these threads. On the one hand, you have the single player ES players, and coming from those games, crafted gear was, eventually, the best gear, because the player made enchantments were more often than not much more powerful than even the best dropped gear due to raw stat inflation from potions consumed before crafting.
Players coming from other MMOs cannot understand this, as in most MMOs crafted gear acts as a stepping stone to the higher end gear from dungeons and raids. You craft a set of gear to get started on the gear treadmill, but very rarely is crafted gear viable in end-game content.

What I think people asking for jewelry crafting are actually looking for is simply more value given to crafting in general, as opposed to making crafted gear "BiS" (which by the way doesnt really exist in the way most people dicuss it, not in ESO anyway)
Being able to craft your own gear from the ground up is a satisfying concept to someone coming from a single player ES game, but to those coming from more standard MMOs it seems outrageous for crafted gear to even approach the status of "BiS".

TL;DR
Everyone is going to have a different opinion about this based on where they are coming from as a gamer, and in the end it is up to ZoS to decide if they want to add it or not. There are good arguments to be made from both sides.

Agreed!!! I want to end the "competition" between dropped and crafted and give both their own uniquer elements that give both a seat at the "build' table. then you have a design that fosters less of the "my clicks entitle me" adversarial mode, IMO.

Chronicburn · September 2017

Yes

Just adding jewelry would be a great start so you can wear 2 full sets at least

altemriel · September 2017

Yes

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Since the introduction of One Tamriel's dropped sets, crafting has become more underwhelming than ever. There are now 35 38 crafted sets in ESO (yes 35! 38!) but I bet it is safe to say only 3 or 4 of these sets are actually being utilized by the vast majority of players. I am not saying that these sets should be reworked to be more powerful than their dropped counterparts, but I think they should at least be put on par with them.

Imagine for a moment if the sets that were currently available to crafters had necklaces and rings, not necessarily overpowered in my opinion since there are arguably better jewelry options already out there.. but I do think this would go miles in improving the crafting experience. And they don't even need a motif style since we can't even see them anyways!

What do you think Tamriel, should jewelry crafting FINALLY be accessible to the masses? Please discuss why you would or would not like to see jewelry crafting as an addition to ESO crafting.
@ZOS_GinaBruno : help us help crafting!

definitely yes

1. for all crafted sets, old and new ones
2. up to gold quality of course
3. make crafting great again!!

olsborg · September 2017

Yes

Make crafting great again.

BrightOblivion · September 2017

Yes

@STEVIL

But your proposal does that by making it so that if anyone wants to wear two five piece sets, one has to be crafted and one has to be from somewhere else. That further limits variety and build diversity, and makes the game more bland as a result. Yes, it removes competition (sort of- you'll still have the "Trial BIS" crowd wanting to make two full sets from trials), but it does so by removing choice and putting us in a box. It's "addition" by subtraction. That just doesn't seem healthy to me after this long with them in game.

I'd much rather see them re-examine sets and give us more options for focusing on certain stats or diversifying to raise multiple stats (and get less gain in each as a result). Again, a more situational approach. As it stands, so many sets are almost exactly the same in their 2-4 bonuses (I think there's one stat difference among IA, MD, and MA?), with a seemingly random, arbitrary 5 piece bonuses. Some you're going "Okay, that sounds kind of cool, but I'm not sure where I'd use it," and others make you go "Are you serious? Why would you make a set bonus that's absolute rubbish and no one in their right mind would use?"

Make crafted and dropped fit together (or stand alone) in terms of stats and what they do. Not based on which pieces of gear you can get in which content.

And while I'd really like to be able to upgrade existing dropped jewelry, I suppose it's not an absolute necessity. The only situation I can see it being highly detrimental to be unable to do this is if you want to combine two trial sets (primarily VO and TFS) and can't for whatever reason complete vet trials. However, I wonder if losing the people who hate trials (particularly vet ones) and only there for the gear, being miserable, frustrating people, and possibly dragging the group down would be all that bad. I see that argument as "But people wouldn't be forced into content they dislike just for the sake of gear," and respond "I know! Isn't it great?!"

I also look at @ZOS_JessicaFolsom 's comment regarding transmutation not currently being a thing for jewelry because we can't research jewelry traits and go "Currently? That means maybe in the future? Hope's not dead!"

Grim13 · September 2017

Yes

I seem to recall there being a Developer quote somewhere about ensuring that crafted sets remained top dog...

I swear!

Chronicburn · September 2017

Yes

Only the 9 trait sets should come close to the most powerful sets in the game, because obviously they take so much time to reach ... however jewelry should be an option with all crafted sets