Bring crafting up to par with Overland sets? (jewelry crafting ...again)

AtraisMachina

No

STEVIL wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread




NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

It takes one day of hard farming to usually complete a overland set, it takes 3066 hours to master trait research in crafting. What are you even talking about?

You guys are so entitled lol

STEVIL wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread




NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

Sounds like flawed logic.

Item 1 Consumables. Consumable crafting requires similar investment in skills far less time to develop and "trait" than equip crafting does... Yet crafted consumables are essentia and clearly superior to drops. Don't see anybody arguing that boss dropped potions and glyphs should be good, do you?
So, within the game, not by some external set of morals about how hard it is to beat that pixel vs the other pixel, there is a serious inconsistency.

Item 2 Investment. Crafting requires a lot of time and skill points on top of the various ones needed for combat. Spending a lot of time and skills and getting something to basically beef up the drops seems out of whack.

But really, to me I have no prob with folks who want their big dog reward for beating up pixels to be top slot gear. I also want the ones who spent time on and skills on crafting to get top gear and consistency between consumes and equip.

Which is where giving crafted their own unique slots and letting drops keep their existing unique slots makes sense to me.

This is exactly my point though. Crafting is EASY NEVER ANYWHERE DID I SAY I DIDNT TAKE TIME. Crafting takes no effort! All you have to do is click a button to research. Cool your time is worth alot to you COOL! Still doesnt insentivise people to challenge themselves. CRAFTING TAKES NO SKILL!!! Cool it takes skill points again gaining skill points TAKES NO SKILL. This argument is just casual catering. You want good stuff? L2p. clicking a button once or twice a week to research a trait doesn't entitle you to ANYTHING!!!!

Im totally down for more set diversity. But theres more to this conversation than that. You have to take into account how the game works.
You cant get the best stuff if your not doing the hardest stuff. Thats how MMOS WORK!!!

Got it... your preferred button clicking is more entitled to rewards than some other's preferred button clicking.
Your preferred button clicking is skill but other people's button clicking is not skill.. got it.
I see you think that and i suppose from your perspective it makes sense and obviously from the frequent CAPS you feel very strongly about it.

and that is why you have made posts or started threads about the obvious "problem" of how crafted potions, foods poisons and glyphs are not entitled to be better than the drops? I mean, those don't even have the benefit of being a long time to master to the point of getting you to the top-end craftables, right?

To me however, from my perspective, one where i do not choose to say "my clicks are more entitled than other folks" i see there being two disconnects within the game design, two glaring inconsistencies in terms of what crafting's role in the game is supposed to be.

They were outlined above so no need to repeat them.

your honestly gunna try and have an argument over weather going through a vet dungeon takes more skill than researching a trait? if your really trying to have that argument im not gunna because arguing that is completely objectively irrational.

as for dropped consumables. that might be the weakest argument of all time. Your again completely ignoring how the game works. Your argument is based off of some vague statements from zos about how everything crafted and non should be equally balanced. I dont disagree with that notion but its ignoring reality. sure go ahead and make more powerful potions and put them in harder content that would be even more incentive for people to try playing the actual game. But thats not what this post is arguing. its arguing specifically for crafted jewelry and increasing the proficiency of crafted sets. Both of which de incentives people to run dungeons and trials.

I think the bases of your arguments are on point. gear should be less of a grind. but we have re traiting coming now soo....

STEVIL

Yes

BrightOblivion wrote: »

@STEVIL

But your proposal does that by making it so that if anyone wants to wear two five piece sets, one has to be crafted and one has to be from somewhere else. That further limits variety and build diversity, and makes the game more bland as a result. Yes, it removes competition (sort of- you'll still have the "Trial BIS" crowd wanting to make two full sets from trials), but it does so by removing choice and putting us in a box. It's "addition" by subtraction. That just doesn't seem healthy to me after this long with them in game.

I'd much rather see them re-examine sets and give us more options for focusing on certain stats or diversifying to raise multiple stats (and get less gain in each as a result). Again, a more situational approach. As it stands, so many sets are almost exactly the same in their 2-4 bonuses (I think there's one stat difference among IA, MD, and MA?), with a seemingly random, arbitrary 5 piece bonuses. Some you're going "Okay, that sounds kind of cool, but I'm not sure where I'd use it," and others make you go "Are you serious? Why would you make a set bonus that's absolute rubbish and no one in their right mind would use?"

Make crafted and dropped fit together (or stand alone) in terms of stats and what they do. Not based on which pieces of gear you can get in which content.

And while I'd really like to be able to upgrade existing dropped jewelry, I suppose it's not an absolute necessity. The only situation I can see it being highly detrimental to be unable to do this is if you want to combine two trial sets (primarily VO and TFS) and can't for whatever reason complete vet trials. However, I wonder if losing the people who hate trials (particularly vet ones) and only there for the gear, being miserable, frustrating people, and possibly dragging the group down would be all that bad. I see that argument as "But people wouldn't be forced into content they dislike just for the sake of gear," and respond "I know! Isn't it great?!"

I also look at @ZOS_JessicaFolsom 's comment regarding transmutation not currently being a thing for jewelry because we can't research jewelry traits and go "Currently? That means maybe in the future? Hope's not dead!"

Actual diversity in play WILL NOT be achieved by changing slots or crafting. If the goal is to achieve more diversity, jewel crafting is not gonna help and neither is my separate but needed option.
But truth be told the diversity in play argument falls flat. The couple BuS will be matched out and played to by those seeking top scores. The counter to that, to create a variety of elements in play are constraints. Opening it up to anything anywhere anybody looses diversity. More sets get ignored that way. Going from ten worthwhile combos and 1000 not worthwhile combos to 10 worthwhile and 10000 not worthwhile by adding new ways the not worth its can be combined is false diversity.

Being able to ignore your option to craft Ashen Grip or Death Wind jewels just like you now ignore your ability to craft Ashen Grip or Death Wind Swords is not more diversity bringing.

The way to diversity does not start with "lets remove the existing differences" like letting you craft jewels for crafted sets does.

As for my suggeston...

There are reasons I suggest this as a chapter level change and that is because it would need more crafted sets and revisions to existing ones when it happens (remember how many new drop sets came out with 1T and how since then DLC keep adding more drops than crafted?)

Well, this would be the 1T of crafted sets.

The new paradigm would not put in anyone's mind "get two drop sets cuz drop sets should be better" and "oh, they added crafted? Why bother?" but instead would be more akin to making both types things worth using. Still need the BiS trial sets if you want that.

So instead of six on one drop sets and three crafted with DLC it would be more likely six each.

Chronicburn

Yes

I don't think you could get more consensus if you asked "would you like a free sack of cash?" ... apparently the community loves this idea, so where are the replies from @zos ?

BrightOblivion

Yes

STEVIL wrote: »

As for my suggeston...

There are reasons I suggest this as a chapter level change and that is because it would need more crafted sets and revisions to existing ones when it happens (remember how many new drop sets came out with 1T and how since then DLC keep adding more drops than crafted?)

Well, this would be the 1T of crafted sets.

The new paradigm would not put in anyone's mind "get two drop sets cuz drop sets should be better" and "oh, they added crafted? Why bother?" but instead would be more akin to making both types things worth using. Still need the BiS trial sets if you want that.

So instead of six on one drop sets and three crafted with DLC it would be more likely six each.

Did you seriously compare an idea that increased player choice and freedom (1T with its scaling and ability to go to any zone at any point in time) to one which takes some of it away (your suggestion to remove weapons from non-crafted sets)?

I don't have a truckload of awesome dropped weapons (my only really decent ones are a precise TFS bow and a powered SPC resto), but if you come to me and try to take those away, even for the laudable purpose of giving crafting a place, I'll 100% tell you to keep walking. The people who've farmed maelstrom and dragonstar arenas ad nauseum or who already have their decked out trial sets will do so faster. Maybe if the game were just getting started and we didn't have all the choices (I'd still wonder why monsters and stuff dropped armor and not weapons, and why I couldn't craft jewelry), but three, four years in? Heck no!

If only 10 out of 1100 combinations are viable for all classes in any circumstance, that's a problem with traits and sets that need to be looked at and given their place. If it's a matter of there being too many sets and some being redundant and useless in all scenarios (even if it's just flower-picking), maybe that number needs to be looked at.

But the last thing that's needed or wanted in a game whose nebulous tagline is "Play how you want" is a further erosion of player choice and options by removing a type of gear from an entire section of the game.

False diversity or not, at least jewelry for crafted sets adds options and choices (even if it's "Nope, I still don't like that set, even when combined with another crafted set"). I could be missing something, but your proposal still only takes options away. Everyone is penned into "dropped set with jewelry, crafted set with weapons, maybe a monster head and or shoulders." That's not my idea of fun, or of playing how I want. It's just ordering off a menu.

If that's the silver bullet only option to give each type of gear a place, I'll pass. Not worth the price tag.

EDIT: I'd love it if more sets had a place, even if it's something like thieving or flower-picking. But what I want most is more ways to combine sets and make sets. Not fewer.

Caligamy_ESO

Yes

AtraisMachina wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread




NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

It takes one day of hard farming to usually complete a overland set, it takes 3066 hours to master trait research in crafting. What are you even talking about?

You guys are so entitled lol

STEVIL wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread




NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

Sounds like flawed logic.

Item 1 Consumables. Consumable crafting requires similar investment in skills far less time to develop and "trait" than equip crafting does... Yet crafted consumables are essentia and clearly superior to drops. Don't see anybody arguing that boss dropped potions and glyphs should be good, do you?
So, within the game, not by some external set of morals about how hard it is to beat that pixel vs the other pixel, there is a serious inconsistency.

Item 2 Investment. Crafting requires a lot of time and skill points on top of the various ones needed for combat. Spending a lot of time and skills and getting something to basically beef up the drops seems out of whack.

But really, to me I have no prob with folks who want their big dog reward for beating up pixels to be top slot gear. I also want the ones who spent time on and skills on crafting to get top gear and consistency between consumes and equip.

Which is where giving crafted their own unique slots and letting drops keep their existing unique slots makes sense to me.

This is exactly my point though. Crafting is EASY NEVER ANYWHERE DID I SAY I DIDNT TAKE TIME. Crafting takes no effort! All you have to do is click a button to research. Cool your time is worth alot to you COOL! Still doesnt insentivise people to challenge themselves. CRAFTING TAKES NO SKILL!!! Cool it takes skill points again gaining skill points TAKES NO SKILL. This argument is just casual catering. You want good stuff? L2p. clicking a button once or twice a week to research a trait doesn't entitle you to ANYTHING!!!!

Im totally down for more set diversity. But theres more to this conversation than that. You have to take into account how the game works.
You cant get the best stuff if your not doing the hardest stuff. Thats how MMOS WORK!!!

Got it... your preferred button clicking is more entitled to rewards than some other's preferred button clicking.
Your preferred button clicking is skill but other people's button clicking is not skill.. got it.
I see you think that and i suppose from your perspective it makes sense and obviously from the frequent CAPS you feel very strongly about it.

and that is why you have made posts or started threads about the obvious "problem" of how crafted potions, foods poisons and glyphs are not entitled to be better than the drops? I mean, those don't even have the benefit of being a long time to master to the point of getting you to the top-end craftables, right?

To me however, from my perspective, one where i do not choose to say "my clicks are more entitled than other folks" i see there being two disconnects within the game design, two glaring inconsistencies in terms of what crafting's role in the game is supposed to be.

They were outlined above so no need to repeat them.

your honestly gunna try and have an argument over weather going through a vet dungeon takes more skill than researching a trait? if your really trying to have that argument im not gunna because arguing that is completely objectively irrational.

as for dropped consumables. that might be the weakest argument of all time. Your again completely ignoring how the game works. Your argument is based off of some vague statements from zos about how everything crafted and non should be equally balanced. I dont disagree with that notion but its ignoring reality. sure go ahead and make more powerful potions and put them in harder content that would be even more incentive for people to try playing the actual game. But thats not what this post is arguing. its arguing specifically for crafted jewelry and increasing the proficiency of crafted sets. Both of which de incentives people to run dungeons and trials.

I think the bases of your arguments are on point. gear should be less of a grind. but we have re traiting coming now soo....

Going through a vet dungeon requires some skill, not a whole lot.. lets be real and honest there. Most of them with the exception of the DLC dungeons can be run solo. You made a lot of criticisms based off your own personal belief that I want, or am clamoring for, an easy casual route out of 'entitlement.' Well.. I can tell you I have already farmed many many vet pledge/arena, & overland sets in BiS traits and (with the exception of the new healer helm in HoTR:BF) I already have everything I want or need banked in gold quality. I'd wager most people have as well because there really isn't a whole lot to do in ESO endgame besides that and chase leader board positions or PVP. So you know what they say about what happens when you assume.

This thread also was never a petition for "increasing the proficiency" of anything, rather removing the pigeonholing effect of not having crafted jewelry to match the existing sets with their exact same current bonuses. It could be setup in the same way enchanting works so that there is no upgrade option present. As it stands now it forces the players and crafters to have to use only 5 of the armor slots (the vast majority of the time) and greatly diminishes the flexibility of its role in ESO.

You also claim that crafting takes no effort, yet a simple white quality set of 5 pieces is around 800 materials of any given type before you even get to the phase of upgrading them. They come out without enchantments so again you have to gather runes for your glyphs in tandem with the 800 or so mats, the improvement items, the traits, and the styles or motifs you actually want to use. You may argue you can buy all of those things, but you can sure as hell buy overland sets too cant you? Now tack on to all of that the three thousand+ hours at the minimum to even get to that stage. Yep.. definitely sounds like no effort.

Do I think jewelry should be able to be upgraded by crafters? No probably not, because that would have obvious impacts on things like trial farming for gold jewelry or AP farming for Cyrodil jewelry. Do I think crafted jewelry for sets like Julianos would kill off trial or even pledge farming? Not even slightly, there are many significant advantages to dropped set bonuses both in pledges and overland content that supersede anything you will obtain from crafting.

So again, what are you even talking about?

Betsararie

The whole "crafted sets are garbage" thing isn't even true right now.

So many are performing very well right now.

Chronicburn

Yes

Zos would be wise to remember crafters pay a lot for eso+ subs

GrumpyDuckling

Blanco wrote: »

The whole "crafted sets are garbage" thing isn't even true right now.

So many are performing very well right now.

@Blanco

Ashen Grip
Vampire's Kiss
Kvatch Gladiator
Redistributor
Varen's Legacy
Shalidor's Curse

Yeah, just go ahead and ignore these.

PlagueSD

Yes

Yes.

With crafted sets, you can only do a 5pc & 4pc. Jewelry would allow crafted sets to run 5-5-2, just like dropped sets.

Chronicburn

Yes

Have devs responded yet?

Chronicburn

Yes

Comment @zos? Pretty please? Even false hope is better than none ...

Betsararie

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

The whole "crafted sets are garbage" thing isn't even true right now.

So many are performing very well right now.

@Blanco

Ashen Grip
Vampire's Kiss
Kvatch Gladiator
Redistributor
Varen's Legacy
Shalidor's Curse

Yeah, just go ahead and ignore these.

To which I will counter with:

Shackle
Julianos
Hunding's
NMG
Torug's
Seducer
Clevel Alchemist

All of these sets are very very good. Some meta.

Crafting has the advantage of being able to craft in ANY weight. This is incredibly useful for the undaunted mettle passive, one of the most beneficial passives in the entire game.

In terms of performance, crafted sets are right there with dropped sets, with dropped sets edging them out only slightly in terms of overall benefit. This is the way it should be. Dropped sets are harder to get and take a lot more effort to get.

Whether or not we need jewelry crafting is entirely debatable, it may very well be a good addition, but I do not think it is debatable that crafted sets are, indeed, performing very well right now.

Chronicburn

Yes

Yeah I agree, my seducer is pretty kick ass ... not to mention the fact I can mix and match light-heavy-medium at a whim. I'm not so much calling for upgrading the sets but really want jewelry added to the sets for flexibility

STEVIL

Yes

BrightOblivion wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

As for my suggeston...

There are reasons I suggest this as a chapter level change and that is because it would need more crafted sets and revisions to existing ones when it happens (remember how many new drop sets came out with 1T and how since then DLC keep adding more drops than crafted?)

Well, this would be the 1T of crafted sets.

The new paradigm would not put in anyone's mind "get two drop sets cuz drop sets should be better" and "oh, they added crafted? Why bother?" but instead would be more akin to making both types things worth using. Still need the BiS trial sets if you want that.

So instead of six on one drop sets and three crafted with DLC it would be more likely six each.

Did you seriously compare an idea that increased player choice and freedom (1T with its scaling and ability to go to any zone at any point in time) to one which takes some of it away (your suggestion to remove weapons from non-crafted sets)?

I don't have a truckload of awesome dropped weapons (my only really decent ones are a precise TFS bow and a powered SPC resto), but if you come to me and try to take those away, even for the laudable purpose of giving crafting a place, I'll 100% tell you to keep walking. The people who've farmed maelstrom and dragonstar arenas ad nauseum or who already have their decked out trial sets will do so faster. Maybe if the game were just getting started and we didn't have all the choices (I'd still wonder why monsters and stuff dropped armor and not weapons, and why I couldn't craft jewelry), but three, four years in? Heck no!

If only 10 out of 1100 combinations are viable for all classes in any circumstance, that's a problem with traits and sets that need to be looked at and given their place. If it's a matter of there being too many sets and some being redundant and useless in all scenarios (even if it's just flower-picking), maybe that number needs to be looked at.

But the last thing that's needed or wanted in a game whose nebulous tagline is "Play how you want" is a further erosion of player choice and options by removing a type of gear from an entire section of the game.

False diversity or not, at least jewelry for crafted sets adds options and choices (even if it's "Nope, I still don't like that set, even when combined with another crafted set"). I could be missing something, but your proposal still only takes options away. Everyone is penned into "dropped set with jewelry, crafted set with weapons, maybe a monster head and or shoulders." That's not my idea of fun, or of playing how I want. It's just ordering off a menu.

If that's the silver bullet only option to give each type of gear a place, I'll pass. Not worth the price tag.

EDIT: I'd love it if more sets had a place, even if it's something like thieving or flower-picking. But what I want most is more ways to combine sets and make sets. Not fewer.

Ok just a few quick

As I stated for maelstrom etc its possible the arena could drop token for crafting those weapons leaving them in their unique place. So all the fuss and miss over taking them away from those who earned them is hullabaloo.

As for counting more options you say no to mattering, well, that is where we differ. I would rather have more options in the bucket of "stuff I won't say no to" even if it means reducing the "bucket of stuff I say no too" from say 1000x to. 500x. I would rather have the whole player base looking for "all sets better" than having a divided base where a number argue that crafted sets should be sub-par.

But certainly, no matter what they do or do not, we won't all agree.

I mean, even 1T had a fair share of "no this should be undone" opposition types.

Chronicburn

Yes

Just give us the jewels Zos please please please whipped cream and cherry on top please?

GrumpyDuckling

Blanco wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

The whole "crafted sets are garbage" thing isn't even true right now.

So many are performing very well right now.

@Blanco

Ashen Grip
Vampire's Kiss
Kvatch Gladiator
Redistributor
Varen's Legacy
Shalidor's Curse

Yeah, just go ahead and ignore these.

To which I will counter with:

Shackle
Julianos
Hunding's
NMG
Torug's
Seducer
Clevel Alchemist

All of these sets are very very good. Some meta.

Crafting has the advantage of being able to craft in ANY weight. This is incredibly useful for the undaunted mettle passive, one of the most beneficial passives in the entire game.

In terms of performance, crafted sets are right there with dropped sets, with dropped sets edging them out only slightly in terms of overall benefit. This is the way it should be. Dropped sets are harder to get and take a lot more effort to get.

Whether or not we need jewelry crafting is entirely debatable, it may very well be a good addition, but I do not think it is debatable that crafted sets are, indeed, performing very well right now.

You're missing the point. You're lumping all crafted sets together. Just because a handful can be useful doesn't mean you can say that "crafted sets are, indeed, performing very well right now."

You're talking like the people who complained about proc sets - lumping them all together instead of recognize the few that were causing problems.

pieratsos

Yes

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread




NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

It takes one day of hard farming to usually complete a overland set, it takes 3066 hours to master trait research in crafting. What are you even talking about?

You guys are so entitled lol

STEVIL wrote: »

AtraisMachina wrote: »

Personally I think as soon as you hit cp160 the game should just give you A BIS set up in the mail. Jewelry crafting? Crafted sets? Its all just a means to an end right? You dont like challenge you dont like having to put time into a game. They should call it the casual pack.

Crafted sets suck because THEYRE EASY TO GET!!!!!!!!!

Jewelry cant be crafted because NO ONE WOULD DO VET CONTENT!!!!!!!! Especially the ones saying yes to this thread




NOW LET THIS IDEA AND THIS THRED FINALLY REST IN PEACE!

Sounds like flawed logic.

Item 1 Consumables. Consumable crafting requires similar investment in skills far less time to develop and "trait" than equip crafting does... Yet crafted consumables are essentia and clearly superior to drops. Don't see anybody arguing that boss dropped potions and glyphs should be good, do you?
So, within the game, not by some external set of morals about how hard it is to beat that pixel vs the other pixel, there is a serious inconsistency.

Item 2 Investment. Crafting requires a lot of time and skill points on top of the various ones needed for combat. Spending a lot of time and skills and getting something to basically beef up the drops seems out of whack.

But really, to me I have no prob with folks who want their big dog reward for beating up pixels to be top slot gear. I also want the ones who spent time on and skills on crafting to get top gear and consistency between consumes and equip.

Which is where giving crafted their own unique slots and letting drops keep their existing unique slots makes sense to me.

This is exactly my point though. Crafting is EASY NEVER ANYWHERE DID I SAY I DIDNT TAKE TIME. Crafting takes no effort! All you have to do is click a button to research. Cool your time is worth alot to you COOL! Still doesnt insentivise people to challenge themselves. CRAFTING TAKES NO SKILL!!! Cool it takes skill points again gaining skill points TAKES NO SKILL. This argument is just casual catering. You want good stuff? L2p. clicking a button once or twice a week to research a trait doesn't entitle you to ANYTHING!!!!

Im totally down for more set diversity. But theres more to this conversation than that. You have to take into account how the game works.
You cant get the best stuff if your not doing the hardest stuff. Thats how MMOS WORK!!!

and farming normal dungeons or buying overland gear from traders requires skill? Ok. I get it now.

pieratsos

Yes

Blanco wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

The whole "crafted sets are garbage" thing isn't even true right now.

So many are performing very well right now.

@Blanco

Ashen Grip
Vampire's Kiss
Kvatch Gladiator
Redistributor
Varen's Legacy
Shalidor's Curse

Yeah, just go ahead and ignore these.

To which I will counter with:

Shackle
Julianos
Hunding's
NMG
Torug's
Seducer
Clevel Alchemist

All of these sets are very very good. Some meta.

Crafting has the advantage of being able to craft in ANY weight. This is incredibly useful for the undaunted mettle passive, one of the most beneficial passives in the entire game.

In terms of performance, crafted sets are right there with dropped sets, with dropped sets edging them out only slightly in terms of overall benefit. This is the way it should be. Dropped sets are harder to get and take a lot more effort to get.

Whether or not we need jewelry crafting is entirely debatable, it may very well be a good addition, but I do not think it is debatable that crafted sets are, indeed, performing very well right now.

Half of the crafted sets if not more are useless. And those that arent doesnt mean they are very good or anything like that. They are just not totally useless and have some use. Very few crafted sets are actually very good - BIS.