PTS Update 40 - Feedback Thread for New Class Item Sets

kojou

MashmalloMan wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Nebs wrote: »

I had time to play with the templar's Wrathsun ability today. I felt like the rate I gained stacks was decent enough, I especially like that it wasn't 1 stack per second, total, it was 1 stack per ability per second. However, the 10 second timer before you lose all of your progress to 50 was way too stressful. There are far too many walking segments in dungeons and everywhere else for me to be interested in a proc requiring 50 stacks that all disappear after a 10 second timer. When I was playing around in Craglorn's Spellscar, I lost my stacks a few times before I could drop the Wrathsun after reaching 50 stacks. I'm sure it'd be better if I fooled around more, but 100% of the Wrathsuns I dropped on the last enemy of the swarm as it was near death. It was incredibly underwhelming.

I really liked the aura effect and color, and I found it whimsical and fun that it appeared to glow brighter as stacks accumulated.

This set feels like it is intended solely for PVP to assist a player in bringing an end to a fight that is dragging on too long. I don't like it, and I don't like that it would be sourced in a new activity where I wouldn't want to use it.

I'd like to see the stacks last longer, and I wouldn't notice if it lost the building magicka regen in order for the stacks to last longer if that's what it would take. I'd also prefer if I could then trigger the 25% buff and Wrathsun drop within that longer stack lifetime after my next cast of a Dawn's Wrath ability instead of it suddenly just appearing.

For this set I feel like a better interaction would be if it procs when you cast Nova at full stacks instead of automatically casting a "Nova" at some random target after gaining the stacks.

I'd prefer a more readily available option rather than forcing a Templar to wait for their ult gen.

Eg. The typical manual proc conditions used.

Partially charged heavy attack.
Fully charged heavy attack. (Yuck)
Bash.
Light attack. (A little too passive, would still fire off when you didn't intend to).

So bash or partial heavy imo. Partial heavy means it works for ranged builds so that's my preference.

Sorry I should have clarified...

When you deal damage with a Dawn's Wrath ability, you gain a stack of Sunlight for 10 seconds, once per attack. You can have 50 stacks max and gain 12 Magicka Recovery per stack. When at max stacks, your Dawn's Wrath abilities deal 25% bonus damage and a Wrathful Nova is cast on the enemy, but you cannot refresh Sunlight. When Sunlight expires at max stacks, you lose 50% of your current Magicka.

So once you meet the condition (50 Stacks) instead of automatically casting Nova, you can cast Nova yourself, and it will cost 50% of your magicka, and all the other stuff, and you get to pick where you want to drop it. I didn't mean that you would have to wait for your ult gen and 50 stacks, although that would still be preferable to what it is now IMO.

MashmalloMan

kojou wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Nebs wrote: »

I had time to play with the templar's Wrathsun ability today. I felt like the rate I gained stacks was decent enough, I especially like that it wasn't 1 stack per second, total, it was 1 stack per ability per second. However, the 10 second timer before you lose all of your progress to 50 was way too stressful. There are far too many walking segments in dungeons and everywhere else for me to be interested in a proc requiring 50 stacks that all disappear after a 10 second timer. When I was playing around in Craglorn's Spellscar, I lost my stacks a few times before I could drop the Wrathsun after reaching 50 stacks. I'm sure it'd be better if I fooled around more, but 100% of the Wrathsuns I dropped on the last enemy of the swarm as it was near death. It was incredibly underwhelming.

I really liked the aura effect and color, and I found it whimsical and fun that it appeared to glow brighter as stacks accumulated.

This set feels like it is intended solely for PVP to assist a player in bringing an end to a fight that is dragging on too long. I don't like it, and I don't like that it would be sourced in a new activity where I wouldn't want to use it.

I'd like to see the stacks last longer, and I wouldn't notice if it lost the building magicka regen in order for the stacks to last longer if that's what it would take. I'd also prefer if I could then trigger the 25% buff and Wrathsun drop within that longer stack lifetime after my next cast of a Dawn's Wrath ability instead of it suddenly just appearing.

For this set I feel like a better interaction would be if it procs when you cast Nova at full stacks instead of automatically casting a "Nova" at some random target after gaining the stacks.

I'd prefer a more readily available option rather than forcing a Templar to wait for their ult gen.

Eg. The typical manual proc conditions used.

Partially charged heavy attack.
Fully charged heavy attack. (Yuck)
Bash.
Light attack. (A little too passive, would still fire off when you didn't intend to).

So bash or partial heavy imo. Partial heavy means it works for ranged builds so that's my preference.

Sorry I should have clarified...

When you deal damage with a Dawn's Wrath ability, you gain a stack of Sunlight for 10 seconds, once per attack. You can have 50 stacks max and gain 12 Magicka Recovery per stack. When at max stacks, your Dawn's Wrath abilities deal 25% bonus damage and a Wrathful Nova is cast on the enemy, but you cannot refresh Sunlight. When Sunlight expires at max stacks, you lose 50% of your current Magicka.

So once you meet the condition (50 Stacks) instead of automatically casting Nova, you can cast Nova yourself, and it will cost 50% of your magicka, and all the other stuff, and you get to pick where you want to drop it. I didn't mean that you would have to wait for your ult gen and 50 stacks, although that would still be preferable to what it is now IMO.

I see, that's certainly something. I suppose you mean it would make Nova a free cast consuming mag instead of ult. Problem with that is you're adding a GCD that wasn't there before.

Partial heavy's and bashes don't run into that issue.

Maybe they could reduce the stacks a bit to make up for the GCD you would use.

Also, that functionality means you would have to have Nova on your bar, at least the way ZOS would design it. It would be a little odd if you could spawn it with your ult dump without Nova on your bar, although you can do that right now the way it fires for free.

RaptorRodeoGod

MashmalloMan wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Nebs wrote: »

I had time to play with the templar's Wrathsun ability today. I felt like the rate I gained stacks was decent enough, I especially like that it wasn't 1 stack per second, total, it was 1 stack per ability per second. However, the 10 second timer before you lose all of your progress to 50 was way too stressful. There are far too many walking segments in dungeons and everywhere else for me to be interested in a proc requiring 50 stacks that all disappear after a 10 second timer. When I was playing around in Craglorn's Spellscar, I lost my stacks a few times before I could drop the Wrathsun after reaching 50 stacks. I'm sure it'd be better if I fooled around more, but 100% of the Wrathsuns I dropped on the last enemy of the swarm as it was near death. It was incredibly underwhelming.

I really liked the aura effect and color, and I found it whimsical and fun that it appeared to glow brighter as stacks accumulated.

This set feels like it is intended solely for PVP to assist a player in bringing an end to a fight that is dragging on too long. I don't like it, and I don't like that it would be sourced in a new activity where I wouldn't want to use it.

I'd like to see the stacks last longer, and I wouldn't notice if it lost the building magicka regen in order for the stacks to last longer if that's what it would take. I'd also prefer if I could then trigger the 25% buff and Wrathsun drop within that longer stack lifetime after my next cast of a Dawn's Wrath ability instead of it suddenly just appearing.

For this set I feel like a better interaction would be if it procs when you cast Nova at full stacks instead of automatically casting a "Nova" at some random target after gaining the stacks.

I'd prefer a more readily available option rather than forcing a Templar to wait for their ult gen.

Eg. The typical manual proc conditions used.

Partially charged heavy attack.
Fully charged heavy attack. (Yuck)
Bash.
Light attack. (A little too passive, would still fire off when you didn't intend to).

So bash or partial heavy imo. Partial heavy means it works for ranged builds so that's my preference.

Sorry I should have clarified...

When you deal damage with a Dawn's Wrath ability, you gain a stack of Sunlight for 10 seconds, once per attack. You can have 50 stacks max and gain 12 Magicka Recovery per stack. When at max stacks, your Dawn's Wrath abilities deal 25% bonus damage and a Wrathful Nova is cast on the enemy, but you cannot refresh Sunlight. When Sunlight expires at max stacks, you lose 50% of your current Magicka.

So once you meet the condition (50 Stacks) instead of automatically casting Nova, you can cast Nova yourself, and it will cost 50% of your magicka, and all the other stuff, and you get to pick where you want to drop it. I didn't mean that you would have to wait for your ult gen and 50 stacks, although that would still be preferable to what it is now IMO.

I see, that's certainly something. I suppose you mean it would make Nova a free cast consuming mag instead of ult. Problem with that is you're adding a GCD that wasn't there before.

Partial heavy's and bashes don't run into that issue.

Maybe they could reduce the stacks a bit to make up for the GCD you would use.

Also, that functionality means you would have to have Nova on your bar, at least the way ZOS would design it. It would be a little odd if you could spawn it with your ult dump without Nova on your bar, although you can do that right now the way it fires for free.

You could make it so that when you reach 50 stacks, it temporarily overwrites your ultimate with the Wrathful Nova ability, kind of like how Cryptcanon does, which would cost 50% mag on use instead of ultimate. Then once you cast it, your original ultimate could return.

MashmalloMan

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Nebs wrote: »

I had time to play with the templar's Wrathsun ability today. I felt like the rate I gained stacks was decent enough, I especially like that it wasn't 1 stack per second, total, it was 1 stack per ability per second. However, the 10 second timer before you lose all of your progress to 50 was way too stressful. There are far too many walking segments in dungeons and everywhere else for me to be interested in a proc requiring 50 stacks that all disappear after a 10 second timer. When I was playing around in Craglorn's Spellscar, I lost my stacks a few times before I could drop the Wrathsun after reaching 50 stacks. I'm sure it'd be better if I fooled around more, but 100% of the Wrathsuns I dropped on the last enemy of the swarm as it was near death. It was incredibly underwhelming.

I really liked the aura effect and color, and I found it whimsical and fun that it appeared to glow brighter as stacks accumulated.

This set feels like it is intended solely for PVP to assist a player in bringing an end to a fight that is dragging on too long. I don't like it, and I don't like that it would be sourced in a new activity where I wouldn't want to use it.

I'd like to see the stacks last longer, and I wouldn't notice if it lost the building magicka regen in order for the stacks to last longer if that's what it would take. I'd also prefer if I could then trigger the 25% buff and Wrathsun drop within that longer stack lifetime after my next cast of a Dawn's Wrath ability instead of it suddenly just appearing.

For this set I feel like a better interaction would be if it procs when you cast Nova at full stacks instead of automatically casting a "Nova" at some random target after gaining the stacks.

I'd prefer a more readily available option rather than forcing a Templar to wait for their ult gen.

Eg. The typical manual proc conditions used.

Partially charged heavy attack.
Fully charged heavy attack. (Yuck)
Bash.
Light attack. (A little too passive, would still fire off when you didn't intend to).

So bash or partial heavy imo. Partial heavy means it works for ranged builds so that's my preference.

Sorry I should have clarified...

When you deal damage with a Dawn's Wrath ability, you gain a stack of Sunlight for 10 seconds, once per attack. You can have 50 stacks max and gain 12 Magicka Recovery per stack. When at max stacks, your Dawn's Wrath abilities deal 25% bonus damage and a Wrathful Nova is cast on the enemy, but you cannot refresh Sunlight. When Sunlight expires at max stacks, you lose 50% of your current Magicka.

So once you meet the condition (50 Stacks) instead of automatically casting Nova, you can cast Nova yourself, and it will cost 50% of your magicka, and all the other stuff, and you get to pick where you want to drop it. I didn't mean that you would have to wait for your ult gen and 50 stacks, although that would still be preferable to what it is now IMO.

I see, that's certainly something. I suppose you mean it would make Nova a free cast consuming mag instead of ult. Problem with that is you're adding a GCD that wasn't there before.

Partial heavy's and bashes don't run into that issue.

Maybe they could reduce the stacks a bit to make up for the GCD you would use.

Also, that functionality means you would have to have Nova on your bar, at least the way ZOS would design it. It would be a little odd if you could spawn it with your ult dump without Nova on your bar, although you can do that right now the way it fires for free.

You could make it so that when you reach 50 stacks, it temporarily overwrites your ultimate with the Wrathful Nova ability, kind of like how Cryptcanon does, which would cost 50% mag on use instead of ultimate. Then once you cast it, your original ultimate could return.

Yeah I like that. I didn't realize there was precedent for it already.

kojou

MashmalloMan wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Nebs wrote: »

I had time to play with the templar's Wrathsun ability today. I felt like the rate I gained stacks was decent enough, I especially like that it wasn't 1 stack per second, total, it was 1 stack per ability per second. However, the 10 second timer before you lose all of your progress to 50 was way too stressful. There are far too many walking segments in dungeons and everywhere else for me to be interested in a proc requiring 50 stacks that all disappear after a 10 second timer. When I was playing around in Craglorn's Spellscar, I lost my stacks a few times before I could drop the Wrathsun after reaching 50 stacks. I'm sure it'd be better if I fooled around more, but 100% of the Wrathsuns I dropped on the last enemy of the swarm as it was near death. It was incredibly underwhelming.

I really liked the aura effect and color, and I found it whimsical and fun that it appeared to glow brighter as stacks accumulated.

This set feels like it is intended solely for PVP to assist a player in bringing an end to a fight that is dragging on too long. I don't like it, and I don't like that it would be sourced in a new activity where I wouldn't want to use it.

I'd like to see the stacks last longer, and I wouldn't notice if it lost the building magicka regen in order for the stacks to last longer if that's what it would take. I'd also prefer if I could then trigger the 25% buff and Wrathsun drop within that longer stack lifetime after my next cast of a Dawn's Wrath ability instead of it suddenly just appearing.

For this set I feel like a better interaction would be if it procs when you cast Nova at full stacks instead of automatically casting a "Nova" at some random target after gaining the stacks.

I'd prefer a more readily available option rather than forcing a Templar to wait for their ult gen.

Eg. The typical manual proc conditions used.

Partially charged heavy attack.
Fully charged heavy attack. (Yuck)
Bash.
Light attack. (A little too passive, would still fire off when you didn't intend to).

So bash or partial heavy imo. Partial heavy means it works for ranged builds so that's my preference.

Sorry I should have clarified...

When you deal damage with a Dawn's Wrath ability, you gain a stack of Sunlight for 10 seconds, once per attack. You can have 50 stacks max and gain 12 Magicka Recovery per stack. When at max stacks, your Dawn's Wrath abilities deal 25% bonus damage and a Wrathful Nova is cast on the enemy, but you cannot refresh Sunlight. When Sunlight expires at max stacks, you lose 50% of your current Magicka.

So once you meet the condition (50 Stacks) instead of automatically casting Nova, you can cast Nova yourself, and it will cost 50% of your magicka, and all the other stuff, and you get to pick where you want to drop it. I didn't mean that you would have to wait for your ult gen and 50 stacks, although that would still be preferable to what it is now IMO.

I see, that's certainly something. I suppose you mean it would make Nova a free cast consuming mag instead of ult. Problem with that is you're adding a GCD that wasn't there before.

Partial heavy's and bashes don't run into that issue.

Maybe they could reduce the stacks a bit to make up for the GCD you would use.

Also, that functionality means you would have to have Nova on your bar, at least the way ZOS would design it. It would be a little odd if you could spawn it with your ult dump without Nova on your bar, although you can do that right now the way it fires for free.

I don't know how it is for other players, but when I see a set that has a proc condition that requires me to do something that I don't normally do in a rotation (i.e. bash or heavy attack) then I am more likely to ignore the set unless the damage it produces is enough beyond what other sets that are more easy to proc do that it makes sense to design a rotation around.

Watching the ultimate button "light up" and hitting it is something that I have trained myself to do, and would feel more natural, whereas having to work in a bash or heavy attack would feel more unnatural to me. Not saying it couldn't work, I just wouldn't prefer it even at the expense of a GCD.

Also, you can have a proc'ed nova and a real nova at the same time with the way the set is designed now (and I would be likely to hold my Nova until it proc'ed to get that 25% on it buff anyway), the only difference is that in this case you can control where they land.

MashmalloMan

Since you haven't adjusted a single set in the slightest (week 3) I'm left to assume you are pushing changes to week 4 or 5. This doesn't leave any wiggle room for further adjustments before launch. Big issue.

Some communication on this topic would have been nice so we don't need to speculate. Endless Archive lives and dies by the rewards you unlock within it.

As it stands, only DK set is worth farming, but not a must have.

NB close second, but the ult situation has hurt it's chances.

Templar will be farmed for the personality of the set, rather than because it's actually good or fun to use.

Necro dead. Cooldown is too long, self corpse isn't worth an entire set.

Warden dead. Healers can run much better support sets.

Sorc dead. We have numerous other generic meta proc sets that are easier to use for more DPS like Pillar of Nirn.

Arcanist not sure, but looks super generic. Healers can run better support sets.

Remiem

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Since you haven't adjusted a single set in the slightest (week 3) I'm left to assume you are pushing changes to week 4 or 5. This doesn't leave any wiggle room for further adjustments before launch. Big issue.

When the "All the big changes are made in week 3" copium just isn't enough lmao.

Lalothen

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Since you haven't adjusted a single set in the slightest (week 3) I'm left to assume you are pushing changes to week 4 or 5. This doesn't leave any wiggle room for further adjustments before launch. Big issue.

Some communication on this topic would have been nice so we don't need to speculate. Endless Archive lives and dies by the rewards you unlock within it.

As it stands, only DK set is worth farming, but not a must have.

NB close second, but the ult situation has hurt it's chances.

Templar will be farmed for the personality of the set, rather than because it's actually good or fun to use.

Necro dead. Cooldown is too long, self corpse isn't worth an entire set.

Warden dead. Healers can run much better support sets.

Sorc dead. We have numerous other generic meta proc sets that are easier to use for more DPS like Pillar of Nirn.

Arcanist not sure, but looks super generic. Healers can run better support sets.

So EA is just more mostly useless 5-piece sets. I guess I'll have to take a look at furnishings etc to see if it's even going to be worth bothering with when it hits Live. It's a solid design fail in my eyes thus far.

Tannus15

They didn’t even make the changes they were considering for monolith

MashmalloMan

Tannus15 wrote: »

They didn’t even make the changes they were considering for monolith

Thats why I think they're waiting for Week 4/5, except why should we have to speculate at all.. just say that if it's the case.

Remiem wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Since you haven't adjusted a single set in the slightest (week 3) I'm left to assume you are pushing changes to week 4 or 5. This doesn't leave any wiggle room for further adjustments before launch. Big issue.

When the "All the big changes are made in week 3" copium just isn't enough lmao.

100%. Every PTS my hope and excitement dies week 3

Lalothen

I just don't get the rationale here at all.

Arenas (which is the category I feel EA most closely matches for the purpose of "loot expectations" I guess) offer something unique that can be theorycrafted into builds alongside other gear from other parts of the game. Arena weapons are a staple of meta two-bar builds - there are lots of options that are viable with an arena weapon back-barred, front-barred, or different ones on each bar - can work nicely with one-bar builds, and don't cause conflicts with things like monster sets or mythics. Meanwhile, EA gives us nothing new to work into builds at all.

EA is new and unique to ESO, yet ostensibly the main rewards - the class sets - are so, so bland... It's like getting a massive brightly wrapped present for Christmas, only to unwrap it and find it's a cardbord box full of black socks & underwear. I mean, at least in that scenario socks & underwear are always useful, unlike most of these class sets.

Let's hope there is actually some sort of shakeup with next week's patch, otherwise EA is going to go live as a lame duck.

Billium813

Even as subpar effects, how much more hype would there be if these were 3 piece sets instead of 5 piece? Unfortunately, as 5 piece sets, we already know the build choices. 3 piece sets would at least get the creative juices running.

Example
New class set
1 piece: Generic buff
2 piece: Effect equivalent to a new Passive
3 piece: Effect that boosts a Class skill tree

Nebs

Billium813 wrote: »

Even as subpar effects, how much more hype would there be if these were 3 piece sets instead of 5 piece? Unfortunately, as 5 piece sets, we already know the build choices. 3 piece sets would at least get the creative juices running.

Example
New class set
1 piece: Generic buff
2 piece: Effect equivalent to a new Passive
3 piece: Effect that boosts a Class skill tree

I totally agree. This would have been an opportunity to really mix things up and provide a totally new way to suit up our characters. As a lot of folks pointed out, there are so many 5-piece options, so to take something that is as inherently limiting as a Skill Line for a Class and further requiring a 5-piece investment means these sets either need to be busted for someone to use them or they're just not going to be used.

They're taking something that is already only available to a narrow number of players, then giving these sets further forced identities by tacking on the 2 - 4 piece bonuses.

ESO_Nightingale

Billium813 wrote: »

Even as subpar effects, how much more hype would there be if these were 3 piece sets instead of 5 piece? Unfortunately, as 5 piece sets, we already know the build choices. 3 piece sets would at least get the creative juices running.

Example
New class set
1 piece: Generic buff
2 piece: Effect equivalent to a new Passive
3 piece: Effect that boosts a Class skill tree

Making them 3 piece bonuses either removes or reduces the amount of bad generic bonuses your build may or may not want. Like max hp on pve dps or crit chance on tanks. I seriously think making them 5 piece bonuses was a really really bad idea.

Turtle_Bot

Billium813 wrote: »

Even as subpar effects, how much more hype would there be if these were 3 piece sets instead of 5 piece? Unfortunately, as 5 piece sets, we already know the build choices. 3 piece sets would at least get the creative juices running.

Example
New class set
1 piece: Generic buff
2 piece: Effect equivalent to a new Passive
3 piece: Effect that boosts a Class skill tree

I think this is what most people were expecting from these class sets.

Something to slot into a build that facilitated and boosted a specific skill line to give classes a unique option to create a new and somewhat unique build around that skill line.

1 piece is generic single line buff that is tailored to the class (e.g. a line of crit chance for sorc, a line of healing done for warden, a line of crit damage for NB, a line of armor for DK, etc)

2 piece is essentially a new passive

Plar:
hitting an enemy with a dawns wrath ability increases damage done with plar abilities by 3% and has a chance to deal flame damage equivalent to 1-2 ticks of a DoT to that enemy.
Sorc:
casting storm calling ability increases crit chance by 5% and has a 20% chance to deal small additional AoE shock damage to that target and nearby enemies.
DK:
casting non-ultimate earthen heart ability reduces damage taken by 3% for 10 seconds (or inflicts minor maim on enemy hit by an earthen heart ability)
NB:
dealing damage or healing with a siphoning ability reduces the cost of your next siphoning ability cast within 3 seconds.
Necro:
casting a bone tyrant ability also creates a corpse on your location.
Warden:
casting a green balance ability grants minor mending.
Arcanist:
healing an ally grants a small damage shield (1.5k) to that ally for 3 seconds (cooldown of 5 seconds per ally)

3rd piece is a buff/change/rework to the first skill of the respective skill line (since this is where the simple skills of those skill lines are)

- sunfire for plars - buff its up front damage and give it a secondary effect like increase damage taken from plar abilities by 10% while its active on a target
- mages fury for sorcs - buff its up front damage to be equivalent to a ST ranged spammable that costs whichever max resource is higher and it guarantees to inflict concussed status.
- stonefist for dk - reduce its cast time and slightly increase its damage
- swallow soul for NB - increase its damage and have it inflict a 2 second bleed DoT (ticks once every second, no hemorrhage status).
- scythe for necro - slightly increase its damage and give it a small execute scale (up to 75% bonus damage to targets below 50% HP).
- fungal growth for wardens - places a buff on an ally healed by this ability that makes it so that the next enemy within melee range that attacks the target healed by this ability they take a small amount of disease damage.
- runemend for arcanist - increase the initial heal slightly and give it a small (1/4 amount) heal in an AoE around the initial target.

I mean, none of these would be perfect and all of them would need tweaks and balances to get them right, but all of them would facilitate using their respective skill lines more and allow for different builds to become viable for each class. It would also create hype for the potential of the other sets, even if these particular sets don't fix the current issues many classes currently have.

mmtaniac

Templar set it's whole concept is ok, but i have few buts

First but is I can't choose when and how i land nova. Compared to different proc sets it's without any possible control just rng. It's something like FU.. THAT ONE SKELETON WITH 5% HP IN THE CORNER!

Second but is losing 50% magicka if i lose stacks ,why? Ok i could accept, but i need some good thing for that 50% magicka but current desing is not acceptable enough. Ok i get +25% damage to dawn's wrath abilities but those abilities are not good enough and not effective enough. If i could buff Aedric Spear abilities with this extra 25% damage than we are home. It could be better if we get + maximum magicka with stacks maximum +5000 magicka. After stacks we just lose it. It's hard too stack it so it's good reward for it too keep it as long as we could.

Third , stacks it's too many and and not enough time too keep them. On DK you just click and ta dah ultimate ultra op defense machine, on templar you skills goo brrrrrr and you are stressed with this 10seconds you have for stacking that, it's not enough time 10seconds only. Ok could accept 10second but with less stacks maybe 25 max.

Finedaible

I like the idea of 3-piece sets. Would make things a lot more interesting to build. Heck, even if they were a strange new 4-piece category it would already open up some new options.

Billium813

To be fair to ZOS, we have Monster sets, Arena weapons, Mythics that add variety to our builds and make the world interesting! Each of these are obtained in interesting ways and add complexity to our builds. We travel around, do different content, get different kinds of rewards, and make interesting builds with them. These were good design decisions and, while they may have been difficult to implement, the game is better for them.

However, these new Class sets are a real design miss IMO. Especially if the plan is to release more in the future for different class skill lines! This would have been a great opportunity to do something new. A new type of Set unique to the endless dungeon content. Something with an interesting design and flavor!

How about this? Make them a 3 piece set in Jewelry only items! They could be themed as lost Treasures from the specific Class lineages; information buried in the Endless Dungeon stacks! Or, maybe they are Daedric made; bestowed by Daedra Lords representing each Class (Meridia for Templar, Nocturnal for NB, Hircine for Wardens, ect) and the Endless Dungeon is the proving grounds! Have the Daedric Lord show up and bestow the player with shiny necklaces and rings.

Instead, we get just more generic 5 piece sets. Hell, they don't even have interesting 1-4 slots (I'd like to know how the dev team decides on those by the way cause they seem totally random)! And its just themed as some Hermaeus Mora loot? What does that Prince have connecting the different classes? It feels totally phoned in IMO. I really would be interested in knowing if the dev team even considered the idea that these new Class sets could be unique and interesting in design. Or did they just focus entirely on the 5 piece mechanic?

Mayrael

Soulcleaver set doesn't reduce the cost of siphoning abilities at all.

Edit:
Actually it is but only in combat.

Lalothen

Billium813 wrote: »

How about this? Make them a 3 piece set in Jewelry only items!

I wouldn't want to see just jewelry, because that automatically excludes numerous mythics from being used alongside a class set, and excludes most existing 3-piece sets that only cover jewels & weapons (meaning 1 slot must be a jewel). I'd say all body & jewels since that allows the most flexibility without also having the mindnumbing grind of farming the full gamut of weapons too (though if they decided to include weapons too, eh, don't care that much).

The skill line mythics mooted somewhere above is also a great idea, and wouldn't have to be limited to just class skill lines either; they could make them for every skill line - and so long as they were actually good enough to be able to match (or close enough to not matter to any but top score pushers) other mythics then that would make EA worth farming. It would also open the door for mythics that boost non-combat skill lines like the antiquities lines, legerdemain, thieves' guild, etc.

Nebs

Billium813 wrote: »

How about this? Make them a 3 piece set in Jewelry only items!

Maybe this if they came out the gate as 3 piece sets, but a lot of these armor sets look really cool .

Personally, I'd love them dropping these down to 3-piece sets but keeping their flexibility as usable on all equipment as light/medium/heavy armor. For sets that are locked to a skill line of a single class, the more flexible they are the better.

Tannus15

Finally got a chance to get on PTS and do some parsing with monolith of storms and my conclusion is that it sucks.
It sucks super hard.

I thought maybe it would be a good cleave setup, but it's even bad at that.
so i stuck a group of 3m dummies together and just focused one down to see how it went with depths, storms and nerien'eth





i went with monolith frontbar with lightning flood also front bar. should have no dramas keeping some monoliths up.
the point of the exercise is to compare the 3 proc set cleave results and well, there it is:

monolith was easily the lowest dps.
nerien'eth managed TWICE as much damage while depths AOE came in more than TRIPLE

needless to say, single target monolith is complete rubbish. as an experiment I swapped the 5th pc and 1pc slimecraw (so 4pc monolith + zaan vs 5pc monolith + 1pc slimecraw) and zaan destroyed it.
It wasn't close.

I don't PvP but you don't have to be a genius to work out that a 2sec tick on a stationary aoe that does hardly any damage is not the build you should bring.

I can see literally no situation in the game where this set is a good idea to use.

further more acquiring the set is a HUGE time sink. I can pretty confidently say not only will I not use this set, but I won't bother collecting it either unless there are some big changes to EA.

CameraBeardThePirate

Tannus15 wrote: »

Finally got a chance to get on PTS and do some parsing with monolith of storms and my conclusion is that it sucks.
It sucks super hard.

I thought maybe it would be a good cleave setup, but it's even bad at that.
so i stuck a group of 3m dummies together and just focused one down to see how it went with depths, storms and nerien'eth





i went with monolith frontbar with lightning flood also front bar. should have no dramas keeping some monoliths up.
the point of the exercise is to compare the 3 proc set cleave results and well, there it is:

monolith was easily the lowest dps.
nerien'eth managed TWICE as much damage while depths AOE came in more than TRIPLE

needless to say, single target monolith is complete rubbish. as an experiment I swapped the 5th pc and 1pc slimecraw (so 4pc monolith + zaan vs 5pc monolith + 1pc slimecraw) and zaan destroyed it.
It wasn't close.

I don't PvP but you don't have to be a genius to work out that a 2sec tick on a stationary aoe that does hardly any damage is not the build you should bring.

I can see literally no situation in the game where this set is a good idea to use.

further more acquiring the set is a HUGE time sink. I can pretty confidently say not only will I not use this set, but I won't bother collecting it either unless there are some big changes to EA.

It boggles my mind that for all the complaints about the Necro tethers they decided to release a set that essentially uses the same garbage AoE mechanic.

Except the monolith is even more garbage because it has less than a third of the tick rate of the tethers.

MashmalloMan

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Finally got a chance to get on PTS and do some parsing with monolith of storms and my conclusion is that it sucks.
It sucks super hard.

I thought maybe it would be a good cleave setup, but it's even bad at that.
so i stuck a group of 3m dummies together and just focused one down to see how it went with depths, storms and nerien'eth





i went with monolith frontbar with lightning flood also front bar. should have no dramas keeping some monoliths up.
the point of the exercise is to compare the 3 proc set cleave results and well, there it is:

monolith was easily the lowest dps.
nerien'eth managed TWICE as much damage while depths AOE came in more than TRIPLE

needless to say, single target monolith is complete rubbish. as an experiment I swapped the 5th pc and 1pc slimecraw (so 4pc monolith + zaan vs 5pc monolith + 1pc slimecraw) and zaan destroyed it.
It wasn't close.

I don't PvP but you don't have to be a genius to work out that a 2sec tick on a stationary aoe that does hardly any damage is not the build you should bring.

I can see literally no situation in the game where this set is a good idea to use.

further more acquiring the set is a HUGE time sink. I can pretty confidently say not only will I not use this set, but I won't bother collecting it either unless there are some big changes to EA.

It boggles my mind that for all the complaints about the Necro tethers they decided to release a set that essentially uses the same garbage AoE mechanic.

Except the monolith is even more garbage because it has less than a third of the tick rate of the tethers.

It's even worse because the monoliths themselves don't move with you or count as aoes so you always need 2-3 spawned at a time. They're just terrible tethers, with none of the redeeming qualities. It's completely unusable unless you force a rotation that can proc it by running Lightning Flood front bar, even though it should be used on back bar.

For 99% of use cases, Sorc's only run Hurricane or Boundless Storm and because both these 2 skills tick on 2s, it's literally impossible to run Monolith of Storms with that ability alone because it spawns them at 10s intervals, the lifespan of 1 monolith.

MashmalloMan

I'm going to have to agree with past comments and ongoing threads. Class sets should have been 3 pieces, 2 pieces or even Mythics. It's really missing out on some build diversity here because you're forcing 2-4 piece stat bonuses on us that not everyone may want. We just want a set that alters the classes kit in a meaningful way.

Before the patch, when it was just teased, I thought you would continue the formula you had going for ability altering weapons. Keep the class sets as 2 piece items that gave a unique bonus to 1 skill. I speculated all the possibilities, that you would focus on the important skills from each class. The bread and butter skills that defines each class.

Eg. A DK Whip set, a Sorc Streak set, a Necro BB set, a Templar Jabs set, etc. To me, the possibilities are endless with that.

On paper, focussing on an entire skill line from the classes sounds better, but in practice as we can see from your designs, you haven't really done anything to alter the skill lines in a meaningful way. Even my favourite set out of the 7, nightblades, is really just a % boost to damage/healing for those 5 specific skills which really any generic set can do.

These sets all come down to numbers instead of doing new cool things with the lines. Going back to the effecting 1 ability example, I thought an example of a streak set could have been making it so it left a 10s AOE DOT.

Imagine a set which made it so streak morphs were useable as PvE damage skills, instead of purely being tied to PvP only. It's interesting because I often think of Streak as Sorc's most identifiable class skill, but you really only use it for half the content in the game.

Not saying that idea is perfect, but I hope that illustrates what we actually want from these sets, how we expected them to boost the class skills in interesting ways.

1. They should enforce the use of the skill or in this case skill line in a way you want to actually use the skills for the max benefit.
2. To utilize properly, it should be simple enough that you're not shoehorned into using skills you don't necessarily need to make the set function to a competitive level.
3. It should be strong, it should change the skill line in a meaningful way, it should match the classes flavour and identity. It should be something we feel, not just a number stat boost, but something we can see, something that doesn't feel generic, that any set for any class could replace.

So how does Monolith compare?

1. There is only 3 damage skills in the Stormcalling line, 2 of which are currently not worth slotting because they're underpowered and overshadowed by pets. No Sorc can afford to run them. No one wants to run them.
2. Monolith is overly complex for the little payoff it offers. Since only 1 skill is worth it, it never actually stays active due to the bad proc condition it has.
3. Monolith is worse than generic sets like Pillar so what is the point of using it? It doesn't fit the class at all, the 2 main factors of Sorc's are speed and critting (crit surge). Neither of those things work with this set. It's slow and easy to avoid. It can't crit. It ticks too slow. MA 2Hander is a better thematic class set than this despite being universal because Sorc is mostly composed of direct damage with multiple ticks to utilize it..what does Monolith do that Sorc's want? Nothing.

Going back to point 2, functionality. Look at Necro, Warden and Templars set. You've made them all overly complex and functionally annoying to use as well.

Necro shouldn't have to stack skills for a measily 2s cooldown when the base 20s is way too high to begin with. If it was 10s, reduced by 1s per skill it would make more sense.

Warden needs to cast 2 non Nature skills. What? Why? That's counter intuitive and the aoe isn't that useful anyhow.

Templars get mag regen, but lose 50% mag, but get 25% damage, but also proc a Nova without controlling it. Why? I get the feeling you added the complexity to attempt to make a minigame like NBs set, but with mag instead of ult. It feels unnecessary. You could remove the mag regen and mag dump and it would feel exactly the same, the point is to build stacks then spend them.

RaptorRodeoGod

Tannus15 wrote: »

Finally got a chance to get on PTS and do some parsing with monolith of storms and my conclusion is that it sucks.
It sucks super hard.

I thought maybe it would be a good cleave setup, but it's even bad at that.
so i stuck a group of 3m dummies together and just focused one down to see how it went with depths, storms and nerien'eth





i went with monolith frontbar with lightning flood also front bar. should have no dramas keeping some monoliths up.
the point of the exercise is to compare the 3 proc set cleave results and well, there it is:

monolith was easily the lowest dps.
nerien'eth managed TWICE as much damage while depths AOE came in more than TRIPLE

needless to say, single target monolith is complete rubbish. as an experiment I swapped the 5th pc and 1pc slimecraw (so 4pc monolith + zaan vs 5pc monolith + 1pc slimecraw) and zaan destroyed it.
It wasn't close.

I don't PvP but you don't have to be a genius to work out that a 2sec tick on a stationary aoe that does hardly any damage is not the build you should bring.

I can see literally no situation in the game where this set is a good idea to use.

further more acquiring the set is a HUGE time sink. I can pretty confidently say not only will I not use this set, but I won't bother collecting it either unless there are some big changes to EA.

Yeah that's about what I got, Monolith is caca 😂

acastanza_ESO

CRIT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR MONOLITH OF STORMS
CRIT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR MONOLITH OF STORMS
CRIT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR MONOLITH OF STORMS

Seriously ZOS, come on. We gave you more than enough feedback how this set was severely lacking compared to the best class sets, or even the mediocre ones.

Also, single target direct damage is literally all of Sorcerer's offensive kit so changing the set to not be buffed by the same CP as literally everything else Sorc runs is a huge yikes.
The core design of this set really seems to stem from a fundamental misunderstanding of Sorc as a class.

MashmalloMan

• Monolith of Storms:
  • This set’s damage currently ignores Line of Sight.
  • A preliminary fix has been found for this set’s inability to Critically Strike but requires more thorough testing before implementing it.
  • Monolith of Storms: Fixed an issue where this set was treated as single target direct damage, rather than Area of Effect Damage over Time.

So no plans to rework the idea or functionality of this set? You made note of intent to rework other sets, but only mention how you're going to add crit to something that was already supposed to crit. This isn't enough.

1. Proc condition is terrible. Once every 10 seconds (Hurricane/Boundless Storm) and once every 5 seconds (Lightning Splash) means you'll rarely ever have all 3 monoliths active at the same time.
2. Sorc's don't want to use Lightning Splash and Mages Fury, they're terrible skills. It also asks the Sorc to use Lightning Splash/Hurrcane on front bar, when they're best used as back bar abilities.
3. The skill line has no spammable, there is no way to choose where you proc Monoliths.
4. Monoliths don't deal any aoe damage themselves, so spawning 1 does nothing. You are required to have 2 or 3. Sorry any Sorc that thought you could do the bare minimum by using Hurricane/Boundless Storm. That ability literally spawns them at the same rate they despawn.
5. Set ticks on 2s, this is terrible as a ground dot. Easy to avoid.
6. Set is limited to 1 sorc per group, since the damage is capped to 1 hit every 2 seconds.

You're missing the mark here. Please rework this. It's been 4 weeks and you've done nothing with this set. Why should a Sorc bother running Endless Archive?

MashmalloMan

Well. At least you managed to make the NB set even better. I can applaud the change here, I saw this coming, 34% was too high and awkward to force NBs to stop casting Incap, while also receiving no benefit for the ult the skill line was designed for. This was a really solid change all around, which seems balanced as it is, instead of pumping NB's burst heal to even more obscene levels and being forced to nerf it into obscurity in a patch or 2 after the complaints come rolling in.

Necro's set is still a bit awkward with the -2s CD per skill slotted, but the % damage/healing bonus is really good and carves out its own theme. The beautiful corpse is no longer the main reason to run the set, it's more of a bonus and I think that was the better take because corpses aren't exactly hard to come by.

DK set is still good, better when you fix the bug.

Warden and Templar set sounds like it will be much better, thank you.

I can't help but feel jealous. No comment on Monolith despite being the worst set of the 7. I can only hope you're not just aiming to fix the crit situation and do something more with it. Crit is not going to fix it.

RaptorRodeoGod

MashmalloMan wrote: »

• Monolith of Storms:
  • This set’s damage currently ignores Line of Sight.
  • A preliminary fix has been found for this set’s inability to Critically Strike but requires more thorough testing before implementing it.
  • Monolith of Storms: Fixed an issue where this set was treated as single target direct damage, rather than Area of Effect Damage over Time.

So no plans to rework the idea or functionality of this set? You made note of intent to rework other sets, but only mention how you're going to add crit to something that was already supposed to crit. This isn't enough.

1. Proc condition is terrible. Once every 10 seconds (Hurricane/Boundless Storm) and once every 5 seconds (Lightning Splash) means you'll rarely ever have all 3 monoliths active at the same time.
2. Sorc's don't want to use Lightning Splash and Mages Fury, they're terrible skills. It also asks the Sorc to use Lightning Splash/Hurrcane on front bar, when they're best used as back bar abilities.
3. The skill line has no spammable, there is no way to choose where you proc Monoliths.
4. Monoliths don't deal any aoe damage themselves, so spawning 1 does nothing. You are required to have 2 or 3. Sorry any Sorc that thought you could do the bare minimum by using Hurricane/Boundless Storm. That ability literally spawns them at the same rate they despawn.
5. Set ticks on 2s, this is terrible as a ground dot. Easy to avoid.
6. Set is limited to 1 sorc per group, since the damage is capped to 1 hit every 2 seconds.

You're missing the mark here. Please rework this. It's been 4 weeks and you've done nothing with this set. Why should a Sorc bother running Endless Archive?

Basically this

Hurricane/Boundless Storm won't even keep the set maintained. Kinda dumb that you need more than one Monolith to do damage. If Storm Calling is just gonna get a proc set, at least make the proc condition synergize with the skill line more. As it sits, it's going to be really difficult to maintain.

A total redesign to fit the skill line better would be nice, but I doubt that would happen. As it sits, the set wants you to use your DoTs as spammables, which makes no sense.

Hopefully the Daedric Summoning and Dark Magic sets will be better.