PTS Update 40 - Feedback Thread for New Class Item Sets

YandereGirlfriend

I think that the Warden set is meant as a PvP set, TBH.

In that respect, Minor Heroism is... okay. But it's the Season of the Fall component that is very lacking.

A good deal of that is because you cannot reliably target where the Major Maim AOE actually procs. It seems to proc on the first Green Balance healing tick that happens after you cast the 2x non-Green Balance skills to activate the mode. The only way that works reliably is if you are playing solo, in which case it procs on yourself, which is such a tiny use case on a group buff set as to be not worth considering.

IMO, the whole Season of the Fall component should be re-worked and provide a different buff than Minor Vitality and Major Maim (while scrapping the AOE component altogether because it is simply too clunky). I think that something like Major Vitality would be very interesting.

ZDunlain

Why templars cannot decide where the wrathfull nova hit? You have 50 stacks and half mag less and you cannot decide where it lands. Almost give us the opportunity to aim that idk. I dont want to cast it on a random archer mob or on a 100m away player in cyrodiil.

Turtle_Bot

jaws343 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Hypothetical Patch Notes:

Monolith of Storms

• Can now crit, Crit Surge addicts can now get their fix.
• Monoliths can be spawned from any tick of a Storm Calling abilities damage instead of the 1st/5th tick, it is still capped to once every second, up to 3 at a time.
• Monoliths function closer to tethers in that they deal the same damage as links in a radius around them, similar to how we changed the Necro Class Set to be able to tether on itself in patch 9.2.1.
• Damage now ticks every 1 second instead of every 2 seconds and stacks up to 3 times per target, per player using the set. This results in each link/monolith doing 40% of the original damage for a total of 120% damage when stacked.
• Mage's Fury and morphs while using this set behave like spammables to help control where you spawn Monoliths and make the skill line and set function as a complete package. The damage in execute is reduced by 30%, with the new upfront damage bonus, this keeps the overall power the same as not using the set in execute.

Sorcerer:

• Storm Calling
  • Mage's Fury
    • This ability now scales based on your highest resource. Stam Sorc's rejoice!

My Thought Process:

These changes are to sum up what I think most of us want for the current design of the set, taken from this thread, Youtube, Twitch and my own personal thoughts. They're simple, but effective. I wish it was a completely different design, but I think this is a middle ground where we can make your original intent behind the set clearer.

Changing Mage's Fury into a spammable (only when using this set) has multiple applications where you make the Storm Calling line viable as a dps line as well as providing a direct way to actively proc Monolith's instead of doing it completly passively. For too long, Sorc has been shoehorned into pets for DPS so why not use this set as a way to bring back Storm Calling no pet/1 pet sorc. Since the set crits and ticks on 1s, it now compliments Crit Surge for survivability as well, a skill which is found within the line.

Since the links are 28m long, I think it's necessary to nerf the damage if we're allowing them to stack up to 3. With my design, they deal 40% of the original tooltip, but 120% if stacked to 3 on a single target, with Monoliths dealing aoe damage like tethers. These changes make it so it's not so difficult that it becomes too much of a hurdle to use, but adds this extra element of strategy with the Mage's Fury changes to choose where you proc the Monoliths for maximum dps on high priority targets or maximum coverage to hit more enemies.

Crit Surge doesn't proc off procs. Not sure where this idea is coming from, but procs can't proc procs and crit surge is considered a proc. Crit Surge doesn't even work on sorc pet crits.

Crit surge does indeed proc off proc sets (assuming they meet the condition of critting).

Pets are different, they don't proc crit surge or proc sets.
This is because the pets count as their own separate entities so their damage doesn't count as being done by the caster of crit surge or the wearer of the proc sets.

It makes sense from a logical perspective, but it severely hinders sorcerer when so many of the crucial aspects of top end combat are taken from the class and forced into the pets (sticky damage over time, Burst Heal, AoE damage) or rely on the caster doing/wearing something (class Heal over Time in crit surge and proc sets).

Tannus15

@MashmalloMan love your redesign, though to be honest I would be happy with just the mages fury and no proc at all.

Honestly I think endless fury should be changed to a spammable and was holding out hope for that in the patch notes when I first saw the set pre pts since the proc conditions were so obviously garbage…

Also I cannot emphasise enough how important it is that multiple players can run this set at once is. That restriction needs to be lifted.

Necrotech_Master

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Hypothetical Patch Notes:

Monolith of Storms

• Can now crit, Crit Surge addicts can now get their fix.
• Monoliths can be spawned from any tick of a Storm Calling abilities damage instead of the 1st/5th tick, it is still capped to once every second, up to 3 at a time.
• Monoliths function closer to tethers in that they deal the same damage as links in a radius around them, similar to how we changed the Necro Class Set to be able to tether on itself in patch 9.2.1.
• Damage now ticks every 1 second instead of every 2 seconds and stacks up to 3 times per target, per player using the set. This results in each link/monolith doing 40% of the original damage for a total of 120% damage when stacked.
• Mage's Fury and morphs while using this set behave like spammables to help control where you spawn Monoliths and make the skill line and set function as a complete package. The damage in execute is reduced by 30%, with the new upfront damage bonus, this keeps the overall power the same as not using the set in execute.

Sorcerer:

• Storm Calling
  • Mage's Fury
    • This ability now scales based on your highest resource. Stam Sorc's rejoice!

My Thought Process:

These changes are to sum up what I think most of us want for the current design of the set, taken from this thread, Youtube, Twitch and my own personal thoughts. They're simple, but effective. I wish it was a completely different design, but I think this is a middle ground where we can make your original intent behind the set clearer.

Changing Mage's Fury into a spammable (only when using this set) has multiple applications where you make the Storm Calling line viable as a dps line as well as providing a direct way to actively proc Monolith's instead of doing it completly passively. For too long, Sorc has been shoehorned into pets for DPS so why not use this set as a way to bring back Storm Calling no pet/1 pet sorc. Since the set crits and ticks on 1s, it now compliments Crit Surge for survivability as well, a skill which is found within the line.

Since the links are 28m long, I think it's necessary to nerf the damage if we're allowing them to stack up to 3. With my design, they deal 40% of the original tooltip, but 120% if stacked to 3 on a single target, with Monoliths dealing aoe damage like tethers. These changes make it so it's not so difficult that it becomes too much of a hurdle to use, but adds this extra element of strategy with the Mage's Fury changes to choose where you proc the Monoliths for maximum dps on high priority targets or maximum coverage to hit more enemies.

Crit Surge doesn't proc off procs. Not sure where this idea is coming from, but procs can't proc procs and crit surge is considered a proc. Crit Surge doesn't even work on sorc pet crits.

Crit surge does indeed proc off proc sets (assuming they meet the condition of critting).

Pets are different, they don't proc crit surge or proc sets.
This is because the pets count as their own separate entities so their damage doesn't count as being done by the caster of crit surge or the wearer of the proc sets.

It makes sense from a logical perspective, but it severely hinders sorcerer when so many of the crucial aspects of top end combat are taken from the class and forced into the pets (sticky damage over time, Burst Heal, AoE damage) or rely on the caster doing/wearing something (class Heal over Time in crit surge and proc sets).

that same logic is also what severely hinders necromancers, arguably worse than sorcs

ESO_Nightingale

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I think that the Warden set is meant as a PvP set, TBH.

In that respect, Minor Heroism is... okay. But it's the Season of the Fall component that is very lacking.

A good deal of that is because you cannot reliably target where the Major Maim AOE actually procs. It seems to proc on the first Green Balance healing tick that happens after you cast the 2x non-Green Balance skills to activate the mode. The only way that works reliably is if you are playing solo, in which case it procs on yourself, which is such a tiny use case on a group buff set as to be not worth considering.

IMO, the whole Season of the Fall component should be re-worked and provide a different buff than Minor Vitality and Major Maim (while scrapping the AOE component altogether because it is simply too clunky). I think that something like Major Vitality would be very interesting.

Major vitality aplied to targets would probably make it good.

Turtle_Bot

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Hypothetical Patch Notes:

Monolith of Storms

• Can now crit, Crit Surge addicts can now get their fix.
• Monoliths can be spawned from any tick of a Storm Calling abilities damage instead of the 1st/5th tick, it is still capped to once every second, up to 3 at a time.
• Monoliths function closer to tethers in that they deal the same damage as links in a radius around them, similar to how we changed the Necro Class Set to be able to tether on itself in patch 9.2.1.
• Damage now ticks every 1 second instead of every 2 seconds and stacks up to 3 times per target, per player using the set. This results in each link/monolith doing 40% of the original damage for a total of 120% damage when stacked.
• Mage's Fury and morphs while using this set behave like spammables to help control where you spawn Monoliths and make the skill line and set function as a complete package. The damage in execute is reduced by 30%, with the new upfront damage bonus, this keeps the overall power the same as not using the set in execute.

Sorcerer:

• Storm Calling
  • Mage's Fury
    • This ability now scales based on your highest resource. Stam Sorc's rejoice!

My Thought Process:

These changes are to sum up what I think most of us want for the current design of the set, taken from this thread, Youtube, Twitch and my own personal thoughts. They're simple, but effective. I wish it was a completely different design, but I think this is a middle ground where we can make your original intent behind the set clearer.

Changing Mage's Fury into a spammable (only when using this set) has multiple applications where you make the Storm Calling line viable as a dps line as well as providing a direct way to actively proc Monolith's instead of doing it completly passively. For too long, Sorc has been shoehorned into pets for DPS so why not use this set as a way to bring back Storm Calling no pet/1 pet sorc. Since the set crits and ticks on 1s, it now compliments Crit Surge for survivability as well, a skill which is found within the line.

Since the links are 28m long, I think it's necessary to nerf the damage if we're allowing them to stack up to 3. With my design, they deal 40% of the original tooltip, but 120% if stacked to 3 on a single target, with Monoliths dealing aoe damage like tethers. These changes make it so it's not so difficult that it becomes too much of a hurdle to use, but adds this extra element of strategy with the Mage's Fury changes to choose where you proc the Monoliths for maximum dps on high priority targets or maximum coverage to hit more enemies.

Crit Surge doesn't proc off procs. Not sure where this idea is coming from, but procs can't proc procs and crit surge is considered a proc. Crit Surge doesn't even work on sorc pet crits.

Crit surge does indeed proc off proc sets (assuming they meet the condition of critting).

Pets are different, they don't proc crit surge or proc sets.
This is because the pets count as their own separate entities so their damage doesn't count as being done by the caster of crit surge or the wearer of the proc sets.

It makes sense from a logical perspective, but it severely hinders sorcerer when so many of the crucial aspects of top end combat are taken from the class and forced into the pets (sticky damage over time, Burst Heal, AoE damage) or rely on the caster doing/wearing something (class Heal over Time in crit surge and proc sets).

that same logic is also what severely hinders necromancers, arguably worse than sorcs

Necros issues stem from more than just this logic, but yes this logic does add into it for sure.

Necro needs a direction. It feels like necro was supposed to be the summoner class, but someone in design said it was going to be too close to sorc (which was being forced more and more into pets at the time), so it seems like they did a last minute switch to make necro something else.

Imo, they should have just made Necro "the summoner class" making archer/mage and spirit mender into permanent pets instead of the current "combined yet don't count as either" pets/dots that they currently are and reverted a lot of their (at the time, recent) changes to sorcs to bring them back to being the mage class that they used to be.

Remiem

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Imo, they should have just made Necro "the summoner class" making archer/mage and spirit mender into permanent pets instead of the current "combined yet don't count as either" pets/dots that they currently are and reverted a lot of their (at the time, recent) changes to sorcs to bring them back to being the mage class that they used to be.

No thanks, I'm fine with necro being a "dark sorcerer" with temporary summons, not interested in sacrificing 2 bar slots each for permanent summons. If I want to play a minion class I can boot up Diablo 4 just fine, and the last sentence is strange, pets have always been part of sorcerer since the beta.

ZhuJiuyin

Remiem wrote: »

No thanks, I'm fine with necro being a "dark sorcerer" with temporary summons, not interested in sacrificing 2 bar slots each for permanent summons. If I want to play a minion class I can boot up Diablo 4 just fine, and the last sentence is strange, pets have always been part of sorcerer since the beta.

"Having a pet" and "being forced to use a pet" are two completely different concepts
Sorcerer players don't hate pets, but they hate being forced to use pets. This is very obvious in PVE. Without two pets, Sorcerer simply doesn't do enough damage.
This is obviously not consistent with the free style that the game emphasizes. At the same time, it also makes Sorcer's other skills seem weak compared with pets.

(in PVE)
Dark Magic, the entire skill line needs to be redone.
Storm Calling, except for Hurricane, few people use the Storm Calling skill.

Tannus15

Mages fury is underpowered as an execute when you consider what a sorc has to give up to run it, namely scamp dps. As usual for eso balance it looks fine on paper but when you consider the rest of the class kit and how it synergies it’s just not worth running.

Lightning flood is also underwhelming since without the synergy the damage is sub par, it’s costly and annoying to use, but most of all because you have to drop something else to run it. The lack of bar space once again curtailing options.

The core issue is that sorc got heavily over nerfed in update 35 and then at the last minute they shoved the missing damage into daedric prey bonus to pet damage.

Because of this 1 pet builds are weak and no pet builds are bad.

Furthermore mag sorc has almost no stam options to take advantage of the hybrid changes leaving their sustain as garbage.

This is why 2 pet stam sorcs are strong and mag sorcs of any kind don’t exist. Changes like the 2h maelstrom weapon just solidifies this.

None of this is new information to anyone who has been paying even the slightest attention to the class. All of this has been said before and completely ignored.

Now we have a class set angled at tackling one of sorcs weak areas, lack of cleave options, however it lacks dps, can only be used by 1 sorc in a group and has proc conditions that require a non existent meta because the skills are too weak to justify using.

What are you thinking ZoS?!?!

None of it makes any sense and adding crits to the proc damage isn’t going to fix anything. It’s blatantly obvious you’re going to add crit to the set and then convince yourself it’s good to go and then be shocked that literally no one will use it because vet players will see it as the trash it is and casual players will be unable to clear enough of EA to obtain it.

This is a slow motion train wreck and everyone is screaming at you to try and avert disaster.

Why on earth aren’t you listening?!?!?

katorga

Now we have a class set angled at tackling one of sorcs weak areas, lack of cleave options, however it lacks dps, can only be used by 1 sorc in a group and has proc conditions that require a non existent meta because the skills are too weak to justify using.

What are you thinking ZoS?!?!

Bingo.

lnigo

Just going to slide in and offer some feedback on Basalt-Blooded Warrior and pushing the boundary for solo DK healing power.

Below are some tooltips I've found using the new DK class set Basalt-Blooded Warrior along with other pieces of gear that I believe will give me the highest amount of healing buffs relatively easily with a single cast of one button. I will not be revealing what these sets are, although there is a video where you can see all the buffs l receive, so you can figure it out. It's not the most ideal set up and I'm working on something a bit more functional, but I can probably retain 85% of the healing you're about to see while increasing DPS by (guesstimating) 30%+.



This video is for you to see the ticks of healing I receive.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=uIr38Rvd6aA

As you can see, Cinder Storm alone is crit healing for a max of 4.7k (time stamp 0:31) and vigor maxes at 6.6k crit (time stamp 1:01). These max ticks can be seen after I proc the master staff buff.

I think we can all come to a consensus that DK healing is pretty wild, and even without this class base set, you can approach these numbers fairly decently. It sort of pushes my point even further. Why give DK more healing? I think we all understand the point of these sets. They're a reward to the player for completing new (and perhaps challenging) content, empowering (I think improving should be the right direction) each class. While I'd say increased healing makes sense for the Earthen Heart skill tree, 14% is a ton. I think completely changing it to block mitigation, block cost reduction, damage reduction (minor protection, please not major), generic magicka/stamina cost reduction, or something along those lines would be equally as fitting to the Earthen Heart skill tree, but significantly more balanced.

Something to maybe consider. Maybe. Thanks anyway.

kojou

For Context:

5 Piece Bonus:

While in combat and with at least 20 Ultimate, strengthens your non-Ultimate Siphoning abilities at the cost of Ultimate: Increases the damage and healing of non-Ultimate Siphoning abilities by 17% of your current Ultimate, up to 200, from a minimum of 3% to a maximum of 34%. Reduces the cost of Siphoning abilities by 15%. Casting Siphoning abilities drains you of 1% of your current Ultimate, with a minimum of 1.

Update from 9.2.1:

Soul Cleaver: Updated this set’s tooltip to mention that the Siphoning Ultimate does not gain the damage or healing increase since you spend your Ultimate upon activation, putting you under its requirement of 20 Ultimate to gain the set’s effects.


I just wanted to add my support of the opinion that it is unfortunate that Soul Tether is not buffed in any way with the Soulcleaver set. I feel like a set that is intended to buff a skill line should buff the entire skill line, not just selected skills.

Why can't the ultimate "withdrawal" for activating the buff happen before the skill is cast? In other words, increase the cost of the ultimate to 101% and receive the buff at the amount of ultimate present at the time it is cast.

It will be balanced by the fact that you lose your 34% buff until you acquire enough ultimate to cast it again.

MashmalloMan

kojou wrote: »

For Context:

5 Piece Bonus:

While in combat and with at least 20 Ultimate, strengthens your non-Ultimate Siphoning abilities at the cost of Ultimate: Increases the damage and healing of non-Ultimate Siphoning abilities by 17% of your current Ultimate, up to 200, from a minimum of 3% to a maximum of 34%. Reduces the cost of Siphoning abilities by 15%. Casting Siphoning abilities drains you of 1% of your current Ultimate, with a minimum of 1.

Update from 9.2.1:

Soul Cleaver: Updated this set’s tooltip to mention that the Siphoning Ultimate does not gain the damage or healing increase since you spend your Ultimate upon activation, putting you under its requirement of 20 Ultimate to gain the set’s effects.


I just wanted to add my support of the opinion that it is unfortunate that Soul Tether is not buffed in any way with the Soulcleaver set. I feel like a set that is intended to buff a skill line should buff the entire skill line, not just selected skills.

Why can't the ultimate "withdrawal" for activating the buff happen before the skill is cast? In other words, increase the cost of the ultimate to 101% and receive the buff at the amount of ultimate present at the time it is cast.

It will be balanced by the fact that you lose your 34% buff until you acquire enough ultimate to cast it again.

Yeah it's really unfortunate. Don't really play NB at all, but even I think it should effect the ultimate too. This set was 1 of the most interesting of the 7 with a good design philosophy. If the 34% is too much of an issue, then it should be rebalanced to include the ultimate at any cost. I would have to agree with some of the comments here that the up to 34% bonus is a bit too powerful for a line which includes their burst heal so a change like this could help out the set 2 ways.

For example, instead of 17% of ult cost up to 200 (cap of 34%), do 16% of ult cost up to 150 (cost of ult + new cap of 24%), but now it buffs the ultimate. Progression stays relatively the same, caps out a little sooner, avoids the inevitable nerf that will come along with U41/42, and allows the whole line to function with the set as a complete package.

Bring it 1 step further, reduce the 15% cost reduction to 10-12%, but allow it to reduce the ultimate cost too. Bam, simple, still effective.

There is so many ways they can handle this to remove unnecessary invisible barriers. The set should effect everything in the line, pure and simple.

MashmalloMan

Tannus15 wrote: »

Mages fury is underpowered as an execute when you consider what a sorc has to give up to run it, namely scamp dps. As usual for eso balance it looks fine on paper but when you consider the rest of the class kit and how it synergies it’s just not worth running.

Lightning flood is also underwhelming since without the synergy the damage is sub par, it’s costly and annoying to use, but most of all because you have to drop something else to run it. The lack of bar space once again curtailing options.

The core issue is that sorc got heavily over nerfed in update 35 and then at the last minute they shoved the missing damage into daedric prey bonus to pet damage.

Because of this 1 pet builds are weak and no pet builds are bad.

Furthermore mag sorc has almost no stam options to take advantage of the hybrid changes leaving their sustain as garbage.

This is why 2 pet stam sorcs are strong and mag sorcs of any kind don’t exist. Changes like the 2h maelstrom weapon just solidifies this.

None of this is new information to anyone who has been paying even the slightest attention to the class. All of this has been said before and completely ignored.

Now we have a class set angled at tackling one of sorcs weak areas, lack of cleave options, however it lacks dps, can only be used by 1 sorc in a group and has proc conditions that require a non existent meta because the skills are too weak to justify using.

What are you thinking ZoS?!?!

None of it makes any sense and adding crits to the proc damage isn’t going to fix anything. It’s blatantly obvious you’re going to add crit to the set and then convince yourself it’s good to go and then be shocked that literally no one will use it because vet players will see it as the trash it is and casual players will be unable to clear enough of EA to obtain it.

This is a slow motion train wreck and everyone is screaming at you to try and avert disaster.

Why on earth aren’t you listening?!?!?

In general, they haven't really done anything notable for most of the classes for 5-6 updates besides the "slot on any bar effect" for Sorc/DK/NB... which I wouldn't say is focussed on any of those classes in particular and more about standardizing a specific type of skill to offer bonuses on both bars.

Since there has only been 1 patch since the first, I'm holding my breath for patch 2 when most of the bigger changes based on feedback are usually come out. After that it's rare anything meaninful happens so if it doesn't change it looks like I'm avoiding another update since U35 unfortunately. I think you're right they're going to land on the set critting because it's a no brainer, but probably leave it as is functionally which is to say dead on arrival. Without the bare minimum of changes like 1s ticks, stacking the set with other Sorcs, changing the proc off of 1st/5th tick and making Monoliths deal aoe damage, I can't see anyone using it outside of role playing which is what 99% of the shock sets are right now.

It's really odd they're taking the continuous stance of "letting things cook" when they haven't done anything to begin with. I assume this is an overreaction to U35 and players asking them not to change the game so much, but now we actually need big changes because they messed everything up.

My thoughts on the skill issues:

1. Morphs for Lightning Flood and Fury don't deal enough damage on their own to warrant a slot vs similar skills of their category, before even thinking about the fact that those 2 skills cost you 1 pet which is passive and deals much more damage on its own due to Daedric Prey.
   • Fury morphs cost should scale based on highest max resource. They deal about 2x a spammable at 1/5 HP. Impale deals 2.5x a spammable from 1/4 HP. Radiant Glory can be used from 1/2 HP, but by the time it's at 1/4 HP like Impale it deals 2.6x a spammable, by 1/5 HP it's doing 3x a spammable scaling all the way up to 4.46x a spammable. This makes it abundantly clear Fury is the weakest of the ranged executes, the only justification is that it's a pseudo delayed burst skill. I've been suggesting for years to change 1 of the morphs to behave more traditionally where there is no delayed proc, but the scaling can start higher for a larger amount.
   • Lightning Flood morphs just need more oomph, it currently only deals 2x a spammable over 10s which is about the same as Boneyard and Winters Revenge with their 30% bonuses except it doesn't do anything else besides the Synergy. I have argued Sorc and Warden should get an effect like DK to increase Shock/Frost damage taken by 6% to compete with Fire, but at this point with how Warden and the Staff changed I don't feel it as necessary. If Lightning Flood had a higher chance to proc Concussed like Winter's Revenge and Sorc had a bonus to Concussed as a passive, then it would start competing again.
2. Daedric Prey and Haunting Curse should be rebalanced entirely.
   • Daedric Prey has completely overshadowed other Sorc abilities to the point where we're forced to give up 5/10 slots for it and pets. Knock down the 45% to 20%, add Empower to throw heavy attack Sorcs a bone. Change the duration from 6s to 5s, but the explosion happens at 3s.
   • Haunting Curse is a little too clunky to be used outside anything PVP related. In PVE, many mobs never get hit by the second or even first blast making it a wasted GCD, so it needs to do something at minimum for casting like Bound Armaments, Grim Focus, etc. Change the first tick from 3.5s to 3s, second tick from 12s to 10s, then add something like Major Breach or Savagery/Prophecy for the duration.
   • This one might be a stretch if they do the above improvements, but change both morphs so when an enemy dies with the curse, the next available tick immediately fires off to damage nearby enemies.
3. Hurricane/Boundless Storm needs to go back to ticking on 1s instead of 2s. Personal gripe, making it increasingly difficult to proc Critical Surge. Damage is fine imo, but the functionality of hitting targets feels very weird now. Non sticky dots should not tick on 2s.
4. Bound Armaments 8% stam needs to be hybridized to offer Mag Sorc something and it's an annoying skill to use due to the delay.
   • First solution, switch the 8% stam to 1.5% crit chance per dagger up to 6%.
   • Second solution, remove the 8% stam entirely, add Major Savagery/Prophecy instead, then bump up the damage of the daggers by 10-20% to the post nerf values they did a few patches ago. This skill is barely stronger than something like Rapid Strikes now, and weaker than Crystal Frags/Haunting Curse despite requiring more effort to pull off.
   • Since the skill already has a minimum projectile travel time built in, remove the 0.3s delay.. or adjust the delay to 0.5s, but make them fire all at the same time. This would reduce the delay total from 1.2s making it easier to land, but still obvious to counter like Grim Focus which doesn't have a delay and hits much harder.
5. Crystal Frag and Crystal Weapon. Remove the 10% cost reduction and add something more useful for what Sorc struggles at, cleave. Both morphs could deal 50% of the upfront damage to 2 nearby enemies.
   • Crystal Weapon - remove the 1k pen for something more useful like Sundered status effect on hit for a bit of a damage boost and guaranteed way of proccing minor breach. The 1k pen is unamed, but it's so pitifully low that it's completely ignored. I think originally they thought trial comps would start asking for Stam Sorc's to come for this unique bonus, but that never happened.
   • Crystal Frag - change it to shock damage.

ZhuJiuyin

MashmalloMan wrote: »

• Crystal Weapon - remove the 1k pen for something more useful like Sundered status effect on hit for a bit of a damage boost and guaranteed way of proccing minor breach. The 1k pen is unamed, but it's so pitifully low that it's completely ignored. I think originally they thought trial comps would start asking for Stam Sorc's to come for this unique bonus, but that never happened.
• Crystal Frag - change it to shock damage.

The other suggestions are good, but I don't think the Crystal Frag needs to be changed to shock damage, which would affect the identity of the Dark magic.

Changing Energized to Increases crit and increasing Expert Mage from 2% to 3% or 4% will give the sorcer more freedom in skill selection.

In addition, the Active/Passive Abilities of Dark Magic also need to be buffed or remake. Except for a few Abilities, most Abilities are not practical.

SandandStars

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I find it really funny that almost no-one cares about the warden set. I've seen like maybe 3 pieces of feedback regarding it.

I played MagWarden pvp for almost 3 years and quit about a month ago.

When they nerfed Deep Fissure’s damage by 30% and put it on a 9 second timer, they destroyed the only offensive class skill that was viable in pvp.

All you see now are the “45k health” Stamdens spamming polar wind and dizzy/executioner or crutching on Masters DW/Vatesh like everyone else.

It would have been nice to see a Warden set that gave it back some class identity via a viable offensive skill.

kojou

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I find it really funny that almost no-one cares about the warden set. I've seen like maybe 3 pieces of feedback regarding it.

That's because they made it a healer set that gives buffs that no one cares about in trials. Healers are expected to wear sets that buff damage (e.g. Roaring Opportunist and Jourvalds, Martial Knowledge and Spell Power Cure, etc) not sets that increase mitigation.

For context:

Casting a Green Balance ability gives you Herald of Spring, causing your Green Balance overheals to apply Minor Heroism for 3 seconds. Casting 2 non-Green Balance class abilities within 2 seconds consumes Herald of Spring and gives you Harbinger of Fall for 10 seconds, causing your Green Balance overheals to create an 8 meter area for 5 seconds, applying Major Maim to enemies and Minor Vitality to allies. You can create an area once every 5 seconds. You cannot gain Herald of Spring while Harbinger of Fall is active.

Minor Heroism is easy to source, so that is already a fairly useless buff. Major Maim is nice, but if players can do content by buffing damage and skipping mechanics then they don't need it. Minor Vitality isn't needed.

Someone else can speak to what healers in PvP wear... maybe this is more useful to them.

IMO, this set as is will just be collected on the stickerbook of the 3 people that play wardens in Endless Archive and decon'ed for materials. If they want players to get excited about it, then it needs to provide group damage buffs.

ESO_Nightingale

kojou wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I find it really funny that almost no-one cares about the warden set. I've seen like maybe 3 pieces of feedback regarding it.

That's because they made it a healer set that gives buffs that no one cares about in trials. Healers are expected to wear sets that buff damage (e.g. Roaring Opportunist and Jourvalds, Martial Knowledge and Spell Power Cure, etc) not sets that increase mitigation.

For context:

Casting a Green Balance ability gives you Herald of Spring, causing your Green Balance overheals to apply Minor Heroism for 3 seconds. Casting 2 non-Green Balance class abilities within 2 seconds consumes Herald of Spring and gives you Harbinger of Fall for 10 seconds, causing your Green Balance overheals to create an 8 meter area for 5 seconds, applying Major Maim to enemies and Minor Vitality to allies. You can create an area once every 5 seconds. You cannot gain Herald of Spring while Harbinger of Fall is active.

Minor Heroism is easy to source, so that is already a fairly useless buff. Major Maim is nice, but if players can do content by buffing damage and skipping mechanics then they don't need it. Minor Vitality isn't needed.

Someone else can speak to what healers in PvP wear... maybe this is more useful to them.

IMO, this set as is will just be collected on the stickerbook of the 3 people that play wardens in Endless Archive and decon'ed for materials. If they want players to get excited about it, then it needs to provide group damage buffs.

massively agree here. it feels like it wasn't designed for trial environments, but maybe large scale group pvp?

YandereGirlfriend

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I find it really funny that almost no-one cares about the warden set. I've seen like maybe 3 pieces of feedback regarding it.

That's because they made it a healer set that gives buffs that no one cares about in trials. Healers are expected to wear sets that buff damage (e.g. Roaring Opportunist and Jourvalds, Martial Knowledge and Spell Power Cure, etc) not sets that increase mitigation.

For context:

Casting a Green Balance ability gives you Herald of Spring, causing your Green Balance overheals to apply Minor Heroism for 3 seconds. Casting 2 non-Green Balance class abilities within 2 seconds consumes Herald of Spring and gives you Harbinger of Fall for 10 seconds, causing your Green Balance overheals to create an 8 meter area for 5 seconds, applying Major Maim to enemies and Minor Vitality to allies. You can create an area once every 5 seconds. You cannot gain Herald of Spring while Harbinger of Fall is active.

Minor Heroism is easy to source, so that is already a fairly useless buff. Major Maim is nice, but if players can do content by buffing damage and skipping mechanics then they don't need it. Minor Vitality isn't needed.

Someone else can speak to what healers in PvP wear... maybe this is more useful to them.

IMO, this set as is will just be collected on the stickerbook of the 3 people that play wardens in Endless Archive and decon'ed for materials. If they want players to get excited about it, then it needs to provide group damage buffs.

massively agree here. it feels like it wasn't designed for trial environments, but maybe large scale group pvp?

TBH, I think that it is intended as a newbie-friendly trial support set (for groups that don't ask their members to buy expensive dragon heroism potions).

It can be used in organized PvP as it currently stands but Minor Heroism isn't really a huge deal in most circumstances. The secondary effect for the Season of the Fall is completely unworkable for group play because you have no control at all over where/when the AOE will proc itself.

We've sort of touched on it before but I would recommend that they just double-down on the set's PvP utility and give Season of the Fall Major Vitality for 3 seconds upon overheal (and then keep the 10-second cooldown on Season of the Fall or even increase it a little bit). That would make the set very strong and desirable in PvP while also giving it much more of a clear offensive vs. defensive dynamic between the two Seasons/modes.

Vaqual

MashmalloMan wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

For Context:

5 Piece Bonus:

While in combat and with at least 20 Ultimate, strengthens your non-Ultimate Siphoning abilities at the cost of Ultimate: Increases the damage and healing of non-Ultimate Siphoning abilities by 17% of your current Ultimate, up to 200, from a minimum of 3% to a maximum of 34%. Reduces the cost of Siphoning abilities by 15%. Casting Siphoning abilities drains you of 1% of your current Ultimate, with a minimum of 1.

Update from 9.2.1:

Soul Cleaver: Updated this set’s tooltip to mention that the Siphoning Ultimate does not gain the damage or healing increase since you spend your Ultimate upon activation, putting you under its requirement of 20 Ultimate to gain the set’s effects.


I just wanted to add my support of the opinion that it is unfortunate that Soul Tether is not buffed in any way with the Soulcleaver set. I feel like a set that is intended to buff a skill line should buff the entire skill line, not just selected skills.

Why can't the ultimate "withdrawal" for activating the buff happen before the skill is cast? In other words, increase the cost of the ultimate to 101% and receive the buff at the amount of ultimate present at the time it is cast.

It will be balanced by the fact that you lose your 34% buff until you acquire enough ultimate to cast it again.

Yeah it's really unfortunate. Don't really play NB at all, but even I think it should effect the ultimate too. This set was 1 of the most interesting of the 7 with a good design philosophy. If the 34% is too much of an issue, then it should be rebalanced to include the ultimate at any cost. I would have to agree with some of the comments here that the up to 34% bonus is a bit too powerful for a line which includes their burst heal so a change like this could help out the set 2 ways.

For example, instead of 17% of ult cost up to 200 (cap of 34%), do 16% of ult cost up to 150 (cost of ult + new cap of 24%), but now it buffs the ultimate. Progression stays relatively the same, caps out a little sooner, avoids the inevitable nerf that will come along with U41/42, and allows the whole line to function with the set as a complete package.

Bring it 1 step further, reduce the 15% cost reduction to 10-12%, but allow it to reduce the ultimate cost too. Bam, simple, still effective.

There is so many ways they can handle this to remove unnecessary invisible barriers. The set should effect everything in the line, pure and simple.

I rather like the set the way it is and if power has to be subtracted just to include the ult that would make it less interesting for me personally. I think this is a good amount of extra power to compensate for the loss of an active ultimate and the set basically goes on CD once you ult. I also think the siphoning ulti is in a good enough spot. By buffing the ult, the synergistic potential in groups where ultimate is restored quickly, could be rather high, and I think the last thing that is needed is buffing ult based group play (referring to PvP, I don't think this would impact the importance of this ult in PvE anyway).
But that is a minor concern, coordinated groups have more than enough tools to do well anyway.
All that for saying: I really don't mind the ult being excluded, and I would rather keep the other coefficients higher and leave the ult out.

Tannus15

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I find it really funny that almost no-one cares about the warden set. I've seen like maybe 3 pieces of feedback regarding it.

That's because they made it a healer set that gives buffs that no one cares about in trials. Healers are expected to wear sets that buff damage (e.g. Roaring Opportunist and Jourvalds, Martial Knowledge and Spell Power Cure, etc) not sets that increase mitigation.

For context:

Casting a Green Balance ability gives you Herald of Spring, causing your Green Balance overheals to apply Minor Heroism for 3 seconds. Casting 2 non-Green Balance class abilities within 2 seconds consumes Herald of Spring and gives you Harbinger of Fall for 10 seconds, causing your Green Balance overheals to create an 8 meter area for 5 seconds, applying Major Maim to enemies and Minor Vitality to allies. You can create an area once every 5 seconds. You cannot gain Herald of Spring while Harbinger of Fall is active.

Minor Heroism is easy to source, so that is already a fairly useless buff. Major Maim is nice, but if players can do content by buffing damage and skipping mechanics then they don't need it. Minor Vitality isn't needed.

Someone else can speak to what healers in PvP wear... maybe this is more useful to them.

IMO, this set as is will just be collected on the stickerbook of the 3 people that play wardens in Endless Archive and decon'ed for materials. If they want players to get excited about it, then it needs to provide group damage buffs.

massively agree here. it feels like it wasn't designed for trial environments, but maybe large scale group pvp?

TBH, I think that it is intended as a newbie-friendly trial support set (for groups that don't ask their members to buy expensive dragon heroism potions).

It can be used in organized PvP as it currently stands but Minor Heroism isn't really a huge deal in most circumstances. The secondary effect for the Season of the Fall is completely unworkable for group play because you have no control at all over where/when the AOE will proc itself.

We've sort of touched on it before but I would recommend that they just double-down on the set's PvP utility and give Season of the Fall Major Vitality for 3 seconds upon overheal (and then keep the 10-second cooldown on Season of the Fall or even increase it a little bit). That would make the set very strong and desirable in PvP while also giving it much more of a clear offensive vs. defensive dynamic between the two Seasons/modes.

The minor heroism is nice, but I’d rather the healer just ran pillagers tbh

ESO_Nightingale

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I find it really funny that almost no-one cares about the warden set. I've seen like maybe 3 pieces of feedback regarding it.

That's because they made it a healer set that gives buffs that no one cares about in trials. Healers are expected to wear sets that buff damage (e.g. Roaring Opportunist and Jourvalds, Martial Knowledge and Spell Power Cure, etc) not sets that increase mitigation.

For context:

Casting a Green Balance ability gives you Herald of Spring, causing your Green Balance overheals to apply Minor Heroism for 3 seconds. Casting 2 non-Green Balance class abilities within 2 seconds consumes Herald of Spring and gives you Harbinger of Fall for 10 seconds, causing your Green Balance overheals to create an 8 meter area for 5 seconds, applying Major Maim to enemies and Minor Vitality to allies. You can create an area once every 5 seconds. You cannot gain Herald of Spring while Harbinger of Fall is active.

Minor Heroism is easy to source, so that is already a fairly useless buff. Major Maim is nice, but if players can do content by buffing damage and skipping mechanics then they don't need it. Minor Vitality isn't needed.

Someone else can speak to what healers in PvP wear... maybe this is more useful to them.

IMO, this set as is will just be collected on the stickerbook of the 3 people that play wardens in Endless Archive and decon'ed for materials. If they want players to get excited about it, then it needs to provide group damage buffs.

massively agree here. it feels like it wasn't designed for trial environments, but maybe large scale group pvp?

TBH, I think that it is intended as a newbie-friendly trial support set (for groups that don't ask their members to buy expensive dragon heroism potions).

It can be used in organized PvP as it currently stands but Minor Heroism isn't really a huge deal in most circumstances. The secondary effect for the Season of the Fall is completely unworkable for group play because you have no control at all over where/when the AOE will proc itself.

We've sort of touched on it before but I would recommend that they just double-down on the set's PvP utility and give Season of the Fall Major Vitality for 3 seconds upon overheal (and then keep the 10-second cooldown on Season of the Fall or even increase it a little bit). That would make the set very strong and desirable in PvP while also giving it much more of a clear offensive vs. defensive dynamic between the two Seasons/modes.

This frustrates me. we have too many beginner friendly sets in the game, that wasting an entire class set on it is frankly insulting. this was zenimax's oppertunity to go wild with class skill combos and synergies but it's so far from hitting the mark. it's just painful at this point.

MashmalloMan

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I find it really funny that almost no-one cares about the warden set. I've seen like maybe 3 pieces of feedback regarding it.

That's because they made it a healer set that gives buffs that no one cares about in trials. Healers are expected to wear sets that buff damage (e.g. Roaring Opportunist and Jourvalds, Martial Knowledge and Spell Power Cure, etc) not sets that increase mitigation.

For context:

Casting a Green Balance ability gives you Herald of Spring, causing your Green Balance overheals to apply Minor Heroism for 3 seconds. Casting 2 non-Green Balance class abilities within 2 seconds consumes Herald of Spring and gives you Harbinger of Fall for 10 seconds, causing your Green Balance overheals to create an 8 meter area for 5 seconds, applying Major Maim to enemies and Minor Vitality to allies. You can create an area once every 5 seconds. You cannot gain Herald of Spring while Harbinger of Fall is active.

Minor Heroism is easy to source, so that is already a fairly useless buff. Major Maim is nice, but if players can do content by buffing damage and skipping mechanics then they don't need it. Minor Vitality isn't needed.

Someone else can speak to what healers in PvP wear... maybe this is more useful to them.

IMO, this set as is will just be collected on the stickerbook of the 3 people that play wardens in Endless Archive and decon'ed for materials. If they want players to get excited about it, then it needs to provide group damage buffs.

massively agree here. it feels like it wasn't designed for trial environments, but maybe large scale group pvp?

TBH, I think that it is intended as a newbie-friendly trial support set (for groups that don't ask their members to buy expensive dragon heroism potions).

It can be used in organized PvP as it currently stands but Minor Heroism isn't really a huge deal in most circumstances. The secondary effect for the Season of the Fall is completely unworkable for group play because you have no control at all over where/when the AOE will proc itself.

We've sort of touched on it before but I would recommend that they just double-down on the set's PvP utility and give Season of the Fall Major Vitality for 3 seconds upon overheal (and then keep the 10-second cooldown on Season of the Fall or even increase it a little bit). That would make the set very strong and desirable in PvP while also giving it much more of a clear offensive vs. defensive dynamic between the two Seasons/modes.

This frustrates me. we have too many beginner friendly sets in the game, that wasting an entire class set on it is frankly insulting. this was zenimax's oppertunity to go wild with class skill combos and synergies but it's so far from hitting the mark. it's just painful at this point.

Yep and at the rate they put out new content for the new systems like mythics, companions and decks, it could be anywhere between 6 to 12 months between each skill line with no guarantee they ever make more than 3 sets. A class specific set for Warden healing may not come out again for another 1.5 to 3 years, if at all.

With all the good hybridization has brought to the table, it's also destroyed build diversity, specifically in the meta sense. Where armor, resource, and damage stats used to influence what sets and abilities we ran, anything is possible now so the majority of builds just run the same thing becoming carbon copies of one another. They need to work extra hard to design sets that fall within niche's now to reintroduce build diversity. Class sets are a perfect opportunity, so they should be designed around end game, not entry level, especially since they're not gate keeping the content and the sets can be obtained at any difficulty or rate due to the endless dungeon. Entry level sets should be regulated to overland and low crafting skill levels.

To that issue, I hope they go back to redesigning classes to be more elementally focussed like DKs are with fire, so that they can easily create more sets like Elfbane which is essentially a pseudo DK class set without outright being locked to a class. Similarly to how Frost staff is still for utility/tanking, yet specifically Warden can use it for DPS.

They've made recent attempts like Frostbite or Storm Cursed Revenge, but because the class skills obscurely fall into an assortment of different damage types, sets like this are almost always dead on arrival. Big sad it's about to happen to Monolith of Storms, Wrathsun and Gardener of the Seasons.

Nebs

I had time to play with the templar's Wrathsun ability today. I felt like the rate I gained stacks was decent enough, I especially like that it wasn't 1 stack per second, total, it was 1 stack per ability per second. However, the 10 second timer before you lose all of your progress to 50 was way too stressful. There are far too many walking segments in dungeons and everywhere else for me to be interested in a proc requiring 50 stacks that all disappear after a 10 second timer. When I was playing around in Craglorn's Spellscar, I lost my stacks a few times before I could drop the Wrathsun after reaching 50 stacks. I'm sure it'd be better if I fooled around more, but 100% of the Wrathsuns I dropped on the last enemy of the swarm as it was near death. It was incredibly underwhelming.

I really liked the aura effect and color, and I found it whimsical and fun that it appeared to glow brighter as stacks accumulated.

This set feels like it is intended solely for PVP to assist a player in bringing an end to a fight that is dragging on too long. I don't like it, and I don't like that it would be sourced in a new activity where I wouldn't want to use it.

I'd like to see the stacks last longer, and I wouldn't notice if it lost the building magicka regen in order for the stacks to last longer if that's what it would take. I'd also prefer if I could then trigger the 25% buff and Wrathsun drop within that longer stack lifetime after my next cast of a Dawn's Wrath ability instead of it suddenly just appearing.

Sennecca

I agree with Nebs. I jumped in to PTS to try Endless Archive and try the templar class set. In concept, It sounds like it could be a decent set in the right situation with the right skills. However, The proc on it taking 50 stacks which seem to immediately start falling off or fall off completely within a very short time, make the set more useless than many other crafted sets in the game. In Endless archive for example, the stacks most often never reach the 50 stacks needed and fall off before the next group of mobs, so the 5 piece bonus is totally lost. His point that you have no control over what it targets or when it goes off makes any other set that increases your overall damage much better.

System_Data

Personally, i wouldn't mind the Wrathsun set have a reduced stack limit, but also reduce it's proc damage. It would make it more palatable considering you have a hard time controlling when it activates and also doesn't make the user feel like they just wasted the proc on a random squirrel. Additionally, if you want all types of players to use it, which include overland-only players, the high stack count might not ever be reached because of how fast overland enemies die.

An increased timer before it falls would make it less frustrating or an adjustment on how fast it decays should probably be looked at.

kojou

Nebs wrote: »

I had time to play with the templar's Wrathsun ability today. I felt like the rate I gained stacks was decent enough, I especially like that it wasn't 1 stack per second, total, it was 1 stack per ability per second. However, the 10 second timer before you lose all of your progress to 50 was way too stressful. There are far too many walking segments in dungeons and everywhere else for me to be interested in a proc requiring 50 stacks that all disappear after a 10 second timer. When I was playing around in Craglorn's Spellscar, I lost my stacks a few times before I could drop the Wrathsun after reaching 50 stacks. I'm sure it'd be better if I fooled around more, but 100% of the Wrathsuns I dropped on the last enemy of the swarm as it was near death. It was incredibly underwhelming.

I really liked the aura effect and color, and I found it whimsical and fun that it appeared to glow brighter as stacks accumulated.

This set feels like it is intended solely for PVP to assist a player in bringing an end to a fight that is dragging on too long. I don't like it, and I don't like that it would be sourced in a new activity where I wouldn't want to use it.

I'd like to see the stacks last longer, and I wouldn't notice if it lost the building magicka regen in order for the stacks to last longer if that's what it would take. I'd also prefer if I could then trigger the 25% buff and Wrathsun drop within that longer stack lifetime after my next cast of a Dawn's Wrath ability instead of it suddenly just appearing.

For this set I feel like a better interaction would be if it procs when you cast Nova at full stacks instead of automatically casting a "Nova" at some random target after gaining the stacks.

YandereGirlfriend

kojou wrote: »

Nebs wrote: »

I had time to play with the templar's Wrathsun ability today. I felt like the rate I gained stacks was decent enough, I especially like that it wasn't 1 stack per second, total, it was 1 stack per ability per second. However, the 10 second timer before you lose all of your progress to 50 was way too stressful. There are far too many walking segments in dungeons and everywhere else for me to be interested in a proc requiring 50 stacks that all disappear after a 10 second timer. When I was playing around in Craglorn's Spellscar, I lost my stacks a few times before I could drop the Wrathsun after reaching 50 stacks. I'm sure it'd be better if I fooled around more, but 100% of the Wrathsuns I dropped on the last enemy of the swarm as it was near death. It was incredibly underwhelming.

I really liked the aura effect and color, and I found it whimsical and fun that it appeared to glow brighter as stacks accumulated.

This set feels like it is intended solely for PVP to assist a player in bringing an end to a fight that is dragging on too long. I don't like it, and I don't like that it would be sourced in a new activity where I wouldn't want to use it.

I'd like to see the stacks last longer, and I wouldn't notice if it lost the building magicka regen in order for the stacks to last longer if that's what it would take. I'd also prefer if I could then trigger the 25% buff and Wrathsun drop within that longer stack lifetime after my next cast of a Dawn's Wrath ability instead of it suddenly just appearing.

For this set I feel like a better interaction would be if it procs when you cast Nova at full stacks instead of automatically casting a "Nova" at some random target after gaining the stacks.

Quite so. Having the ability to control the location and timing of the proc would make the set FAR more useful.

MashmalloMan

kojou wrote: »

Nebs wrote: »

I had time to play with the templar's Wrathsun ability today. I felt like the rate I gained stacks was decent enough, I especially like that it wasn't 1 stack per second, total, it was 1 stack per ability per second. However, the 10 second timer before you lose all of your progress to 50 was way too stressful. There are far too many walking segments in dungeons and everywhere else for me to be interested in a proc requiring 50 stacks that all disappear after a 10 second timer. When I was playing around in Craglorn's Spellscar, I lost my stacks a few times before I could drop the Wrathsun after reaching 50 stacks. I'm sure it'd be better if I fooled around more, but 100% of the Wrathsuns I dropped on the last enemy of the swarm as it was near death. It was incredibly underwhelming.

I really liked the aura effect and color, and I found it whimsical and fun that it appeared to glow brighter as stacks accumulated.

This set feels like it is intended solely for PVP to assist a player in bringing an end to a fight that is dragging on too long. I don't like it, and I don't like that it would be sourced in a new activity where I wouldn't want to use it.

I'd like to see the stacks last longer, and I wouldn't notice if it lost the building magicka regen in order for the stacks to last longer if that's what it would take. I'd also prefer if I could then trigger the 25% buff and Wrathsun drop within that longer stack lifetime after my next cast of a Dawn's Wrath ability instead of it suddenly just appearing.

For this set I feel like a better interaction would be if it procs when you cast Nova at full stacks instead of automatically casting a "Nova" at some random target after gaining the stacks.

I'd prefer a more readily available option rather than forcing a Templar to wait for their ult gen.

Eg. The typical manual proc conditions used.

Partially charged heavy attack.
Fully charged heavy attack. (Yuck)
Bash.
Light attack. (A little too passive, would still fire off when you didn't intend to).

So bash or partial heavy imo. Partial heavy means it works for ranged builds so that's my preference.