PTS Update 37 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for any combat or class change. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.

Trinotops

Honestly, pretty disappointing.

• Templars get no buffs and are still just beam bots.
• Necros had the one thing going for them taken away (bombing) and nothing was given in return such as a reliable stun, better spammable, class access to Major Brutality/Sorcery.
• Harmony change is boring and negatively affects more fringe synergies like Lady Thorn.
• Haven't tested it, but the Bloodthirsty trait was already in a good spot. The buff seems unnecessary.
• Sorcs get a measly buff to their shield, which is better than nothing I guess, but the class would've benefited way more from things like Major/Minor buffs or debuffs attached to their abilities, a reliable burst heal, better pets in PvP.
• Nightblades still have a ridiculously overloaded class kit.
• No change to the Vampire Undeath passive.

ESO_Nightingale

Not much to report from the frost warden side of things. Cutting dive change is very nice and a reasonable nerf was made to crystallized slab and it's morphs.
edit: class damage on the high end competitively isn't there due to nerfs to loss of passive raw damage, winter's revenge nerf, deep fissure/subterranean assault nerfs and the loss of cutting dive's old power.

One thing to bring up is the wall of frost changes seem to be quite nice for tank and support players in pve however i still think it would be nice to see a damage focused effect for chilled on unstable wall of frost. seeing as damage is low.

EDIT: 02/18
I created a detailed forums post regarding warden's current issues.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/627779/dps-wardens-issues-as-of-update-37-changes-i-would-like-to-see-in-update-38/p1?new=1

propertyOfUndefined

Disappointed with the class balance changes... In PVP, necromancers have been really struggling. Instead of getting buffs like I was expecting, they're getting a huge slap in the face in the form of the harmony re-design. In the meantime, DKs (who take up half of the PVP population because they're capable of dishing out a ton of damage while staying incredibly survivable) are getting a gap closer that further boosts their damage output by 10% (empowering chains). I just don't understand how these decisions were made.

Thraben

- without Harmony and Grave- Robber, Necroes have no place in PvP, and there is nothing you can change with its other skills to balance it. (edit and don't even try stuff like "tether skills now do 300% damage" - that would actually be borderline insulting given how clunky the class is)

- DK is totally overtuned

- Harmony change means that synergies will be ignored again like in the first 4 years of ESO. Whoever wrote this Dev comment has not been playing PvP group play since 2019 or so. The effective removal of Harmony leads to bigger zergs, and Warden stacking, and I had sincerely hoped we had evolved beyond that. For a PvP guild, your patch notes read like: If you are a solo player, please play exclusively DK or Frost Warden, and if you are a group player, no, you may not come with your [insert any class but warden]. Lack of class and skill diversity is a problem in PvP, but with these patch notes, the problem is getting out of control: Synergies at least gave different classes a purpose (well, except the poor Nightblades) in groups.

- Vampire Undead passive should increase the incoming fire and holy damage by far more. At the moment it's a net win against even these damage types

- Healing stacking should be replaced by a major and minor regeneration system to compensate for the buff to large zerg groups who no longer have to fear synergy bombs

ealdwin

Just a suggestion, but extend that new scaling thing on Sorc shields to Templar’s shields. Unless the new scaling stinks. Someone else will have to let me know until I can get the PTS reinstalled.

DeathStalker

As someone at the bottom of the damage numbers, all I can say is... pretty disappointing. When are we at the bottom going to be remembered? When are we going to be able to feel strong and not struggle? Light attack weaving and animation canceling should not be mandatory to clear content except for things like the hardest dungeons and trials. My hands hurt so much and get so stiff trying to do all the movements needed to do damage. So disappointing. Forgotten. Unimportant. Maybe one day people like me can play and feel strong and powerful but it doesn't seem to be anytime soon.

FakeFox

Please leave Pearls of Ehlnofey alone. The build optimization and training required to properly use it is what makes it incredibly enganging and rewarding to use. Increasing the threshold to 50% complete ruins this item.

KlauthWarthog

So... DKs get Major Berserk from their gap closer now, for some reason. Care to elaborate on the thought process that lead to this decision, with some particular focus on how you measured the impact on PvP?

prof_doom

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

So... DKs get Major Berserk from their gap closer now, for some reason. Care to elaborate on the thought process that lead to this decision, with some particular focus on how you measured the impact on PvP?

The thought process is pretty clear. They're trying to replace the (old) empower buff with something equivalent for attacks that people weren't going to put into HA build rotations.

Whether Major Berserk is the right buff and whether anyone thought of pvp are valid questions.

katorga

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

So... DKs get Major Berserk from their gap closer now, for some reason. Care to elaborate on the thought process that lead to this decision, with some particular focus on how you measured the impact on PvP?

Well, NB have unnamed 10% damage (conveniently stacks with Major Berserk) on their spammable.

So why the heck not?

birdik

nice 80% empower skills go to major berserk... AMBUSH?!
P.S. nerf DK and Wardens sustain

Cast_El

Seriously there is a LOT of post/discussion talking about the jabs and backlash nerf problem. Just look around

GetAgrippa

As a dk enthusiast, I cannot believe my class is getting easy access to Major Berserk, on a skill that gives molten whip stacks no less... While templar is still nerfed into oblivion. But you have ENDLESS SWEEP I guess.

Zos, come on now.

Cloudrest

Backlash and morphs are seriously underperforming in PvP right now. Templar's burst ability should be hitting for more than 2-5k damage against players. Please look at the several threads talking about how weak Templar is currently and address the issue properly for week three of PTS, or look at the several comments on this thread. Nerf beam too, please.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/621126/templar-underperforming#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/623771/suggestion-for-the-backlash-templar-skill-and-burning-light#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/615702/jab-puncturing-sweep-is-useless-in-pvp-because-of-snare-duration-nerf-damage-nerf#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/622843/templar-identity#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/625384/burst-damage-and-healing-templar-stam-mag#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/625273/templar-feels-incredibly-bleh-anyone-have-a-fun-effective-build#latest


Nightblade is still overperforming due to the unique 10% damage buff attached to concealed weapon.

Sorc changes don't address the issues with the class in PvP.

ForumBully

Not to diminish the weaknesses of Necros in PvP, but I'm so sick of Harmony that I'd rather have that last crutch kicked out from under the class so that, just maybe, they'll finally see there's a problem with the class design.
Harmony is literally the only thing keeping them relevant, and it's played out and boring.

acastanza_ESO

This is a complete insult to Sorcerers.

The buff to shields is completely inadequate - it is hardly anything at all, and health scaling doesn't help viability at all. We needed offensive stat based scaling - as we told you over and over - for it to be competitive with other classes healing as defense.

You've taken the only unique thing about Sorcs, Streak, made a straight up better version of the Ball of Lightning morph and given it to all classes with the new mistform. RIP the last vestiges of our class identity.

We still have zero in class access to offensive debuffs unlike everyone else, and minimal access to defensive buffs (and only on morphs that are otherwise poor and not used). Why do you - over and over - refuse to address this?

You also still refuse to address how badly the reliance on double barred pets with extremely low health, and that have a resummon time, and an AI that constantly gets them killed, holds Sorcerer back.

How can you miss the point of all the many feedback threads that we've created so badly?
Who do we have to complain to get Sorc seriously analyzed for fixes? Why is this ignored patch after patch? The feedback threads have been comprehensive and are being completely ignored by the combat team.

colossalvoids

Some people need to check out PTS for the new mist form before starting on a "robbed sorc". It's not a streak in a slightest.

AdamLAD

I know zenimax did some extra writing on sorcerer buffs. But forget everything else they said. Completely pointless. The only thing we got was a 7% ward increase. WHICH IS DIABOLICAL. I have no idea how they came to the conclusion that 7% is adequate. At minimum 10% on ALL Wards IF ANYTHING. And even THEN its still not enough. They said they do not want a repeat of stacking Shields in the past ? That was 5 years ago. The game is COMPLETELY different now. Who was standing at the white board going this is an adequate buff for sorcerer

acastanza_ESO

colossalvoids wrote: »

Some people need to check out PTS for the new mist form before starting on a "robbed sorc". It's not a streak in a slightest.

It is a better version of the Ball of Lightning morph.

The ground targeting is slightly different, but actually in a way that is straight up better (if you have the automatically cast ground targeted abilities setting enabled) because you can actually choose where you go instead of with BoL where you're locked in to the direction your character model is facing.
People just use "Streak" as shorthand for both morphs. But this is, unambiguously, robbing Sorcerers.

CameraBeardThePirate

There have been 4 or 5 "Necro needs help" feedback posts the past patch cycle alone, each one talking about different areas the class was hurting. Harmony graverobber was Necro's only real use in PvP anymore, and with it gone, Necromancer feels aimless right now.

The developer team often states they want each class to have a certain "feel", flavor, or gameplay fantasy they perform well, so I urge you to consider the question "What does a Necro play like?" with these upcoming changes.

Are they a DoT class? Well, they have 10% DoT damage and 15% DoT reduction, but they aren't really a DoT class - they only have 2 class DoTs, both AOE.

Are they a burst class? Well, blastbones is a strong burst ability, but that's only when it wants to be. Taking out Graverobber doesn't really leave necro with anything that would fit this role.

Well surely they have a unique and exciting, useful class kit right? Almost. They had usefulness in applying Major Vulnerability and Empower, but Major Vuln has many options for application now, and Empower is nearly useless in all scenarios now. Blastbones and the tethers being the exception (with the latter being situational at best) Necros likely won't use many of their other class abilities. Why? Well they need an ability that gives their major damage buff, their major crit buff, and need an on demand stun if they'll be PvPing. They also need to outsource their spammable, as Skulls underperform most of the other alternatives. Are you running proc sets? Then you should probably run even fewer class skills, since Blastbones and the Archer/Arcanist won't proc damage sets, and Ghost won't proc healing sets.

Necro needs some love. They're almost an excellent class but they've been shoehorned into Harmony bombing for so long that the areas they've lacked in have flown under the radar. Now with Harmony bombing gone, and many of their other issues being more significant in today's meta, they need a bit of help. Throw them a lifeline ZOS.

olsborg

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

So... DKs get Major Berserk from their gap closer now, for some reason. Care to elaborate on the thought process that lead to this decision, with some particular focus on how you measured the impact on PvP?

That was my initial impression too, DKs currently even after last years nerfs are still one of the top dogs in pvp...why are they given major berserk in their class kit? wow...

Zekka

ForumBully wrote: »

Not to diminish the weaknesses of Necros in PvP, but I'm so sick of Harmony that I'd rather have that last crutch kicked out from under the class so that, just maybe, they'll finally see there's a problem with the class design.
Harmony is literally the only thing keeping them relevant, and it's played out and boring.

I have a bunch of posts agreeing with what you just wrote but necro really needed the rework NOW before any harmony nerf, next patch ZOS will be busy with the new class and necro will just be swept under the rug and forgotten.

birdik

No Notes for Nbs..

1) Teleport strike still have animation and needs stun back
1a) Ambush's empower is useless ->
Turn minor berserk into major berserk?

2) Mark target: both morphs are still garbage (btw core skill is just major breach, take away healing effect)

3) Grim focus: Stam morph << magicka one
Give major savagery/prophecy?

4) Deathstroke and morphs needs instant animation ( hello dragon leap )

5) Aspect of Terror: both morphs are still garbage. Roots?

6) Veiled strike: Surprise attack<<concealed weapon
Move 10% buff to core skill?

7) Consuming darkness: still nobody uses

ForumBully

Zekka wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Not to diminish the weaknesses of Necros in PvP, but I'm so sick of Harmony that I'd rather have that last crutch kicked out from under the class so that, just maybe, they'll finally see there's a problem with the class design.
Harmony is literally the only thing keeping them relevant, and it's played out and boring.

I have a bunch of posts agreeing with what you just wrote but necro really needed the rework NOW before any harmony nerf, next patch ZOS will be busy with the new class and necro will just be swept under the rug and forgotten.

I agree completely. I don't like hanging onto the one-trick for one-trick ponies, but sadly they'll probably be no-tricks for awhile.

Volckodav

Quoted post has been removed.

I will say FrostDen better thanDK cause heal and group utilities and heal stacking, and NB given the skillroof yes GOOD NB are way to the top but the vast majority of plebs bow NB that I see are just AP fest

Vevvev

I actually really like the Mistform changes as it adds a bit more life steal to the sub class with Bloodmist, makes Elusive Mist a better maneuverability tool, and gets rid of the ability for people to just sit still and chill in Mistform forever.

Overall it's a nice compromise and it's very thematic and appropriate. A good change amidst it all.

propertyOfUndefined

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

There have been 4 or 5 "Necro needs help" feedback posts the past patch cycle alone, each one talking about different areas the class was hurting. Harmony graverobber was Necro's only real use in PvP anymore, and with it gone, Necromancer feels aimless right now.

The developer team often states they want each class to have a certain "feel", flavor, or gameplay fantasy they perform well, so I urge you to consider the question "What does a Necro play like?" with these upcoming changes.

Are they a DoT class? Well, they have 10% DoT damage and 15% DoT reduction, but they aren't really a DoT class - they only have 2 class DoTs, both AOE.

Are they a burst class? Well, blastbones is a strong burst ability, but that's only when it wants to be. Taking out Graverobber doesn't really leave necro with anything that would fit this role.

Well surely they have a unique and exciting, useful class kit right? Almost. They had usefulness in applying Major Vulnerability and Empower, but Major Vuln has many options for application now, and Empower is nearly useless in all scenarios now. Blastbones and the tethers being the exception (with the latter being situational at best) Necros likely won't use many of their other class abilities. Why? Well they need an ability that gives their major damage buff, their major crit buff, and need an on demand stun if they'll be PvPing. They also need to outsource their spammable, as Skulls underperform most of the other alternatives. Are you running proc sets? Then you should probably run even fewer class skills, since Blastbones and the Archer/Arcanist won't proc damage sets, and Ghost won't proc healing sets.

Necro needs some love. They're almost an excellent class but they've been shoehorned into Harmony bombing for so long that the areas they've lacked in have flown under the radar. Now with Harmony bombing gone, and many of their other issues being more significant in today's meta, they need a bit of help. Throw them a lifeline ZOS.

Wholeheartedly agree with everything stated here...

For the record, I haven't used harmony enchants in years, and have no desire to. The only necromancers I encounter in pvp do though, and even they are a dying breed. Throw the class a bone if you're taking away its favorite toy!

CameraBeardThePirate

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

There have been 4 or 5 "Necro needs help" feedback posts the past patch cycle alone, each one talking about different areas the class was hurting. Harmony graverobber was Necro's only real use in PvP anymore, and with it gone, Necromancer feels aimless right now.

The developer team often states they want each class to have a certain "feel", flavor, or gameplay fantasy they perform well, so I urge you to consider the question "What does a Necro play like?" with these upcoming changes.

Are they a DoT class? Well, they have 10% DoT damage and 15% DoT reduction, but they aren't really a DoT class - they only have 2 class DoTs, both AOE.

Are they a burst class? Well, blastbones is a strong burst ability, but that's only when it wants to be. Taking out Graverobber doesn't really leave necro with anything that would fit this role.

Well surely they have a unique and exciting, useful class kit right? Almost. They had usefulness in applying Major Vulnerability and Empower, but Major Vuln has many options for application now, and Empower is nearly useless in all scenarios now. Blastbones and the tethers being the exception (with the latter being situational at best) Necros likely won't use many of their other class abilities. Why? Well they need an ability that gives their major damage buff, their major crit buff, and need an on demand stun if they'll be PvPing. They also need to outsource their spammable, as Skulls underperform most of the other alternatives. Are you running proc sets? Then you should probably run even fewer class skills, since Blastbones and the Archer/Arcanist won't proc damage sets, and Ghost won't proc healing sets.

Necro needs some love. They're almost an excellent class but they've been shoehorned into Harmony bombing for so long that the areas they've lacked in have flown under the radar. Now with Harmony bombing gone, and many of their other issues being more significant in today's meta, they need a bit of help. Throw them a lifeline ZOS.

Wholeheartedly agree with everything stated here...

For the record, I haven't used harmony enchants in years, and have no desire to. The only necromancers I encounter in pvp do though, and even they are a dying breed. Throw the class a bone if you're taking away its favorite toy!

I couldn't really care less about harmony going away - I haven't played much this last patch but even before that I had moved on from Harmony because it was just boring. Now there really isn't any reason to play on a Necro now - nothing a necro does anymore that a different class can't do better

Yamenstein

ForumBully wrote: »

Not to diminish the weaknesses of Necros in PvP, but I'm so sick of Harmony that I'd rather have that last crutch kicked out from under the class so that, just maybe, they'll finally see there's a problem with the class design.
Harmony is literally the only thing keeping them relevant, and it's played out and boring.

Agreed. Hopefully they buff necromancers in that case. During this pts

LukosCreyden

The harmony adjustment deletes the only viable pvp build necromancer has.

Also, necromancer has struggled for a long time with clunky skills, specifically blast bones. The whole class revolves around babysitting this one skill, which makes it awfully fiddly to play in pve and, when combined with a rather slow spammable, very weak in pvp.
Blastbones needs to be reworked to be on the same level of effectiveness as warden's scorch. The skulls spammable needs to be faster or undodgeable in pvp.
Combined with other issues such as poor cc and lack of buffs, necromancer is becoming very unappealing for both pve and pvp. The nice aesthetics cannot carry it through its clunky gameplay.

Going to be honest, I am really wanting to play the game more, but am honestly struggling to find a class I actually like.

Hera Mora cultist mage doesn't interest me, the theme is too specific.

Sorcerer is a pet class with nothing else going for it due to lacking passives. Bring back no pet sorc!

Templar is in a hole, still bleeding profusely from jabs and other nerfs. Also, that animation is still bad.

I personally do not like the defence buffs on DK, i really dislike how they look.

NB has incredibly subdued spell effects, making it hard to see if the skill activated in the first place.

Warden as a frost mage is pretty cool, but honestly I'm waiting for the nerf hammer to come and destroy that playstyle, or the class as a whole. I just get the feeling that this will happen before the other classes get the buffs they desperately need.