Jab/puncturing sweep is useless in pvp because of Snare duration nerf & damage nerf

Cast_El

This is worst than I thought. The snare make people go away soon easily. Now you can just hit one time with jab, the snare nerf is too big. And if you hit your enemy you will do no damage. I play olorime and clever alchimist, full damage build... And don't hit hard at all.
I gave up jab for force shock and the damage is so higher.
Templar lost their identity.
I will switch to magsorc way better in range than templar.
Congratulations
🎉👏 you killed pvp templar

What do you think is worst? Damage nerf? Snare duration? Burning light nerfed?

Firstmep

Actually ranged magplar is pretty powerful right now.
Jbeam deals massive damage, one or 2 dots is enough to consistently proc burning light, and having bl proc in execute range also adds a ton of extra pressure.
Ranged magplar was already good last patch, but it was overshadowed by outlier builds like oaken dk/nb and bowsorc.
Melee templar, yeah it feels pretty bad. The jabs damage isnt even the worst part, but sticking to targets is much harder, and there seems to be some issues with the hit detection of the new jabs, on top of the terrible animation.

Olen_Mikko

Can't really feel bad for any templars. Jabs were ridiculously OP, especially against casual pvp players that know no counters to it. Oh wait, there pretty much wasn't, unless you were specifically build against it.

MajorSnakeFox

Ranged Templar? Class Identity?

rexagamemnon

Melee magplar in pvp and pve is dead

MEBengalsFan2001

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

Can't really feel bad for any templars. Jabs were ridiculously OP, especially against casual pvp players that know no counters to it. Oh wait, there pretty much wasn't, unless you were specifically build against it.

Dodge roll forward was the best way to avoid it. That’s simple enough to do. And if you do it just right the Templar would be in a prime spot to counter attack them.

Rhaegar75

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

Can't really feel bad for any templars. Jabs were ridiculously OP, especially against casual pvp players that know no counters to it. Oh wait, there pretty much wasn't, unless you were specifically build against it.

Only incapable players would stand there and take the jab without doing anything about it. It was a strong skill but not op

Back on topic: melee plars are truly irrelevant and personally I don’t like the idea of playing a rangeplar.

All in all the nerf was uncalled for

BalticBlues

Melee StamPlayers did not tolerate melee MagPlars with a good heal.
Instead of dodgerolling forward they cried on the forums.
Now MagPlars have to play RANGED like MagSorcs.
Unfortunely, this is exactly what you DONT NEED in BGs with flags.
I wonder when all people will either play Stam or DKs in BGs...

TechMaybeHic

Jabs are weak. Biggest thing though; is they nerfed burning light 33% and procs half as often at best. Jabs was strong with everything because templar's didn't really have other things to use but they killed that without adding an option. Maybe the increase scaling of radiant destruction but the delay to get that off and the burst heals flying around still makes that a zergling tool

Faulgor

Was about to switch to Dizzying Swing on my stamplar because of this, but with everyone zipping about in CP Cyrodiil like a Bosmer with bees up their butt, almost nothing hits. They are either out of range or behind the next corner.

The only instant stamina-based spamable available to Stamplar seems to be Silver Bolts.

lol.

Cast_El

Firstmep wrote: »

Actually ranged magplar is pretty powerful right now.
Jbeam deals massive damage, one or 2 dots is enough to consistently proc burning light, and having bl proc in execute range also adds a ton of extra pressure.
Ranged magplar was already good last patch, but it was overshadowed by outlier builds like oaken dk/nb and bowsorc.
Melee templar, yeah it feels pretty bad. The jabs damage isnt even the worst part, but sticking to targets is much harder, and there seems to be some issues with the hit detection of the new jabs, on top of the terrible animation.

I made some BG 7-10 kills with one death with my "ranged" templar. I switch with my magsorc 15-25,kill with one or two death. Magsorc is way better for ranged play style more burst damage. But templar is better for survive

MEBengalsFan2001

BalticBlues wrote: »

Melee StamPlayers did not tolerate melee MagPlars with a good heal.
Instead of dodgerolling forward they cried on the forums.
Now MagPlars have to play RANGED like MagSorcs.
Unfortunely, this is exactly what you DONT NEED in BGs with flags.
I wonder when all people will either play Stam or DKs in BGs...

Templar is my main still despite this change ruining my play style.

I find my range warden to be better suited now in pvp over my Templar.

I think I am going to spend more of my time now finishing up pve zones. After that maybe play another game.

soniku4ikblis

I'm still doing ok with my Magplar. It's still able to do the things I was doing before. I just changed up a few pieces of gear and switched to Flawless Dawnbreaker.

Now I have 300 more spell damage for 20 seconds. I added Balorgh's back into my gear.

I miss my big phat super combo and that part is now noticeable, but I've been playing Templar for the last 4 years, I'm managing.

Definitely notice the dps loss. That Burning Light proc doesn't line up with my jabs as well as it says before. It's pretty annoying.

I have to chase my flatlined targets a bit harder now, but that I can do. Im really only managing ok because I have all my muscle memory and experience.

This would be dreadful for a new player in PVP if I was one.

I don't know why Templar needed these nerfs. Any good player knows how to strafe jabs.

I really have to rely on those Minor Betserk procs now though, but I do anyway.

jerj6925

Sure you can find ways to ... make a templar work but why when others classes\builds do it so much better.

Militan1404

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

Can't really feel bad for any templars. Jabs were ridiculously OP, especially against casual pvp players that know no counters to it. Oh wait, there pretty much wasn't, unless you were specifically build against it.

Was lots of counters to sweeps/jabs, doge roll tru him, minor/major evasion, stun him, be ranged

SouthernSoldjer

I have two 5 star plars that I love dearly, but unfortunately I can’t play them… the jabs nerfed killed templars.

Syiccal

@ZOS_GinaBruno any word on if jabs/sweeps will be reverted in 36. The current changes have completely removed mele templar as a viable clas. Also old animation is way better is there a reason this change was made instead of just speeding up the previous version.

mmtaniac

I stopped playing pvp this patch, Jabs just feel bad and weak, before patch they feel weak without high penetration, right now they feel even weaker without good penetration. Armor penetration is must have on templar but class itself not have any of it in class skills. New animation is not look good they should change all other animations too if they change most used one, right now animations just feel bad. All should be new or nothing.

Every spammable in game are single target only jabs are aoe and damage is reduced by whole medium armor.
Major evasion + roll dodge buff from medium armor 5parts reduce jabs damage alone by 30% + major minor prot + vampire damage reduction(not always).

Major evasion should be changed or give exception to jabs to not work on them. Or at least give templars debuff that work like Major evasion opposite to counter that thing.

FirmamentOfStars

I do not understand the argument here. So many people claim, that templar is dead or bad and only rangeplar is viable. That all is totally not true. Rangeplar is just a gimmick and is widely seen as a subpar buildchoice only kind of viable for zerging or some duelling scenarios, meanwhile classic meleeplar still has much more power in OW PvP. Also jabs are by far not dead. Here a little screenshot of my cmx (this is in pvp against a player) showing a 4683 jabs tick. A full jabs/puncturing sweeps therefore will deal around 14k damage. This is some peak value though, generally my jabs tick for 3-4k each resulting in a 9-12k full jabs damage though.

Syiccal

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

I do not understand the argument here. So many people claim, that templar is dead or bad and only rangeplar is viable. That all is totally not true. Rangeplar is just a gimmick and is widely seen as a subpar buildchoice only kind of viable for zerging or some duelling scenarios, meanwhile classic meleeplar still has much more power in OW PvP. Also jabs are by far not dead. Here a little screenshot of my cmx (this is in pvp against a player) showing a 4683 jabs tick. A full jabs/puncturing sweeps therefore will deal around 14k damage. This is some peak value though, generally my jabs tick for 3-4k each resulting in a 9-12k full jabs damage though.

And what build ate you running to achieve this, and
What level and ability was the other guy?

TechMaybeHic

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

I do not understand the argument here. So many people claim, that templar is dead or bad and only rangeplar is viable. That all is totally not true. Rangeplar is just a gimmick and is widely seen as a subpar buildchoice only kind of viable for zerging or some duelling scenarios, meanwhile classic meleeplar still has much more power in OW PvP. Also jabs are by far not dead. Here a little screenshot of my cmx (this is in pvp against a player) showing a 4683 jabs tick. A full jabs/puncturing sweeps therefore will deal around 14k damage. This is some peak value though, generally my jabs tick for 3-4k each resulting in a 9-12k full jabs damage though.

I'll file that under didn't happen without seeing a target and original tooltip considering youd have to stack as high offense to even get that tooltip, then battle spirit alone of course halves it. Then maybe you crit but the target need have no crit resist and naked. A lot just doesn't add up

Then; nevermind the fat that you also can heal your target for 500-1k health per jab due to Maras Balm due to the snare being refreshed each poke

Edit: Wait. Lol yeah dude. It also shows you landed 1 of 2 so 50% of the time and you probably picked a squishy target to do it and got 1 crit. LMAO what you trying to pull here?

Syiccal

Exactly what I was thinking pretty much

FirmamentOfStars

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

I do not understand the argument here. So many people claim, that templar is dead or bad and only rangeplar is viable. That all is totally not true. Rangeplar is just a gimmick and is widely seen as a subpar buildchoice only kind of viable for zerging or some duelling scenarios, meanwhile classic meleeplar still has much more power in OW PvP. Also jabs are by far not dead. Here a little screenshot of my cmx (this is in pvp against a player) showing a 4683 jabs tick. A full jabs/puncturing sweeps therefore will deal around 14k damage. This is some peak value though, generally my jabs tick for 3-4k each resulting in a 9-12k full jabs damage though.

I'll file that under didn't happen without seeing a target and original tooltip considering youd have to stack as high offense to even get that tooltip, then battle spirit alone of course halves it. Then maybe you crit but the target need have no crit resist and naked. A lot just doesn't add up

Then; nevermind the fat that you also can heal your target for 500-1k health per jab due to Maras Balm due to the snare being refreshed each poke

Edit: Wait. Lol yeah dude. It also shows you landed 1 of 2 so 50% of the time and you probably picked a squishy target to do it and got 1 crit. LMAO what you trying to pull here?

Jabs/puncturing strikes are listed as ticks in cmx, 5777 is the total damage of the two jabs tick I landed, 1/2 hit critted, 2888 is the average number of my jabs ticks and 4683 is the highest damage number in cmx.

I cant really tell much about the target, since its from a random 1vX fight I had. But in the current patch, you can have 100% crit chance, 120% crit damage, 100% penetration, 7k spelldamage and major/minor berserk on a templar. A friend of mine even reported 6k ticks. As I mentioned aswell, most targets I hit for 3-4k jabs tick.

If you dont want to believe, then dont believe me: easy solution for everyone. But if you are saying melee templar is dead and ranged templar the go to, then I will speak up against you.

Experienced people are already working on a tier list again (maybe you know which list I am talking about) and templar probably will land around top 3 after stamnb and stamden.

Syiccal

Every tier list I have seen recently firmly places magplar at the bottom in terms of dmg

FirmamentOfStars

Syiccal wrote: »

Every tier list I have seen recently firmly places magplar at the bottom in terms of dmg

Maybe they use bad builds from last patch, bad builds in general or rate rangeplar...I dont know. Properly built templar still hits hard with jabs, naturally less hard than previous patch. But people generally build for more damage this patch aswell. But I also have to say, that most tierlists of this poatch I have seen so far, arent really good.

TechMaybeHic

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

I do not understand the argument here. So many people claim, that templar is dead or bad and only rangeplar is viable. That all is totally not true. Rangeplar is just a gimmick and is widely seen as a subpar buildchoice only kind of viable for zerging or some duelling scenarios, meanwhile classic meleeplar still has much more power in OW PvP. Also jabs are by far not dead. Here a little screenshot of my cmx (this is in pvp against a player) showing a 4683 jabs tick. A full jabs/puncturing sweeps therefore will deal around 14k damage. This is some peak value though, generally my jabs tick for 3-4k each resulting in a 9-12k full jabs damage though.

I'll file that under didn't happen without seeing a target and original tooltip considering youd have to stack as high offense to even get that tooltip, then battle spirit alone of course halves it. Then maybe you crit but the target need have no crit resist and naked. A lot just doesn't add up

Then; nevermind the fat that you also can heal your target for 500-1k health per jab due to Maras Balm due to the snare being refreshed each poke

Edit: Wait. Lol yeah dude. It also shows you landed 1 of 2 so 50% of the time and you probably picked a squishy target to do it and got 1 crit. LMAO what you trying to pull here?

Jabs/puncturing strikes are listed as ticks in cmx, 5777 is the total damage of the two jabs tick I landed, 1/2 hit critted, 2888 is the average number of my jabs ticks and 4683 is the highest damage number in cmx.

I cant really tell much about the target, since its from a random 1vX fight I had. But in the current patch, you can have 100% crit chance, 120% crit damage, 100% penetration, 7k spelldamage and major/minor berserk on a templar. A friend of mine even reported 6k ticks. As I mentioned aswell, most targets I hit for 3-4k jabs tick.

If you dont want to believe, then dont believe me: easy solution for everyone. But if you are saying melee templar is dead and ranged templar the go to, then I will speak up against you.

Experienced people are already working on a tier list again (maybe you know which list I am talking about) and templar probably will land around top 3 after stamnb and stamden.

Show the build and show a full log from an outing in Cyrodiil rather than 1 jab series at 1 player

FirmamentOfStars

To please the crowd I went to PvP for 10 mins to get another CMX for you. I could have spent more time to get higher damage numbers, but I think this 1v4 fight should do fine for you.

This is from a much bulkier build I run (the previous one was with the typical meta build rallying cry, acuity, bloodspawn 5m, 1l, 1h and sea-serpent. This build has maras balm in it and has also more heavy armor), therefore its not a 4.7k jabs tick this time.

TechMaybeHic

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

To please the crowd I went to PvP for 10 mins to get another CMX for you. I could have spent more time to get higher damage numbers, but I think this 1v4 fight should do fine for you.

This is from a much bulkier build I run (the previous one was with the typical meta build rallying cry, acuity, bloodspawn 5m, 1l, 1h and sea-serpent. This build has maras balm in it and has also more heavy armor), therefore its not a 4.7k jabs tick this time.

So you were fluffing the numbers on that last one? Or why not use it if it's meta? What you show us more likely to average 6k total damage with that 20% crit than 14k, which I have a lot of doubts you close that 8k gap and who knows how many of the 4 you hit per jab. You talked up one thing and just showed something entirely different

FirmamentOfStars

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

To please the crowd I went to PvP for 10 mins to get another CMX for you. I could have spent more time to get higher damage numbers, but I think this 1v4 fight should do fine for you.

This is from a much bulkier build I run (the previous one was with the typical meta build rallying cry, acuity, bloodspawn 5m, 1l, 1h and sea-serpent. This build has maras balm in it and has also more heavy armor), therefore its not a 4.7k jabs tick this time.

So you were fluffing the numbers on that last one? Or why not use it if it's meta? What you show us more likely to average 6k total damage with that 20% crit than 14k, which I have a lot of doubts you close that 8k gap and who knows how many of the 4 you hit per jab. You talked up one thing and just showed something entirely different

Erm you dont know how jabs works, right? Jabs has 3 ticks now.
The setup includes acuity, meaning 100% crit chance. So you can assume 3*3600 damage per jab cast when acuity is up (thats the whole point of acuity, you nuke something when its up). Also this is just a small sample and if I spent more time on it, I could serve you higher numbers aswell.

And as said, this is a bulkier setup I use, meaning even without speccing as much damage into the build as the meta build, it still hits 10k jabs regularly (which is for a spammable still a lot in PvP), meanwhile the meta build hits for even more like in the small picture posted earler.

Now you can do with that information whatever you want. I posted evidence, that jabs still hit hard and templar still is a very strong class with the right setup. But you can also just close your eyes like sheep and ignore it and further complain about a non existing problem.

PS: Why I dont use the super meta build? Because I have enough damage with this setup to nuke enemies, so I can go bulkier than the meta build, survive more enemy players and get better 1vX's.

TechMaybeHic

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

To please the crowd I went to PvP for 10 mins to get another CMX for you. I could have spent more time to get higher damage numbers, but I think this 1v4 fight should do fine for you.

This is from a much bulkier build I run (the previous one was with the typical meta build rallying cry, acuity, bloodspawn 5m, 1l, 1h and sea-serpent. This build has maras balm in it and has also more heavy armor), therefore its not a 4.7k jabs tick this time.

So you were fluffing the numbers on that last one? Or why not use it if it's meta? What you show us more likely to average 6k total damage with that 20% crit than 14k, which I have a lot of doubts you close that 8k gap and who knows how many of the 4 you hit per jab. You talked up one thing and just showed something entirely different

Erm you dont know how jabs works, right? Jabs has 3 ticks now.
The setup includes acuity, meaning 100% crit chance. So you can assume 3*3600 damage per jab cast when acuity is up (thats the whole point of acuity, you nuke something when its up). Also this is just a small sample and if I spent more time on it, I could serve you higher numbers aswell.

And as said, this is a bulkier setup I use, meaning even without speccing as much damage into the build as the meta build, it still hits 10k jabs regularly (which is for a spammable still a lot in PvP), meanwhile the meta build hits for even more like in the small picture posted earler.

Now you can do with that information whatever you want. I posted evidence, that jabs still hit hard and templar still is a very strong class with the right setup. But you can also just close your eyes like sheep and ignore it and further complain about a non existing problem.

PS: Why I dont use the super meta build? Because I have enough damage with this setup to nuke enemies, so I can go bulkier than the meta build, survive more enemy players and get better 1vX's.

You've shown no evidence. You showed another build hit 4 targets which will inflate your numbers. Acuity you'll have up for 4 seconds then down 25 seconds. That's not 100% in any practical sense.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

FirmamentOfStars

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

FirmamentOfStars wrote: »

To please the crowd I went to PvP for 10 mins to get another CMX for you. I could have spent more time to get higher damage numbers, but I think this 1v4 fight should do fine for you.

This is from a much bulkier build I run (the previous one was with the typical meta build rallying cry, acuity, bloodspawn 5m, 1l, 1h and sea-serpent. This build has maras balm in it and has also more heavy armor), therefore its not a 4.7k jabs tick this time.

So you were fluffing the numbers on that last one? Or why not use it if it's meta? What you show us more likely to average 6k total damage with that 20% crit than 14k, which I have a lot of doubts you close that 8k gap and who knows how many of the 4 you hit per jab. You talked up one thing and just showed something entirely different

Erm you dont know how jabs works, right? Jabs has 3 ticks now.
The setup includes acuity, meaning 100% crit chance. So you can assume 3*3600 damage per jab cast when acuity is up (thats the whole point of acuity, you nuke something when its up). Also this is just a small sample and if I spent more time on it, I could serve you higher numbers aswell.

And as said, this is a bulkier setup I use, meaning even without speccing as much damage into the build as the meta build, it still hits 10k jabs regularly (which is for a spammable still a lot in PvP), meanwhile the meta build hits for even more like in the small picture posted earler.

Now you can do with that information whatever you want. I posted evidence, that jabs still hit hard and templar still is a very strong class with the right setup. But you can also just close your eyes like sheep and ignore it and further complain about a non existing problem.

PS: Why I dont use the super meta build? Because I have enough damage with this setup to nuke enemies, so I can go bulkier than the meta build, survive more enemy players and get better 1vX's.

You've shown no evidence. You showed another build hit 4 targets which will imflate your numbers. Acuity you'll have up for 4 seconds then down 25 seconds. That's not 100% in any practical sense.

[snip]

First off, having 4 enemy targets do not inflate numbers at all, since CMX shows every hit seperately and does not add them up or whatever.
Secondly, acuity is 5 seconds on 100% plus for every stack another second, meaning that if you have 30% base crit chance, you are 1 sec at 50% crit chance, 1 sec at 70% crit chance, 1 sec at 90% crit chance and then 5 seconds at 100% crit chance, so 7-8 seconds with very high crit chance, which is more than anough for an offensive window. Puryfying light stores for 6 seconds and you usually start with that your combo, meaning you have a full puryfying light window full of crits (thats why we see 15k puyfying lights everywhere).

But you first off stating jabs has 4 ticks, then claiming acuity (which is veeeery populat on templar) is 4 seconds shows me, that you are not very familiar with the situation of templar and jabs at all.

At least I have shown something, [snip]

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]