ESO PvP Update [Updated June 2022]

EdmondDontes

ArchMikem wrote: »

Murky_Dregs wrote: »

It's long past time that you upgrade your architecture. It's good to hear that plans are finally in work.

I've run many program, project, & development teams in my career ($600m+portfolio), and the offhand comments made by Rich's wife speak volumes regarding the mindset of the ZoS team.

Her remarks were incredibly candid and are definitely a real glimpse into how your people feel.

Given the glib customer disregard displayed, how do you plan to address that issue, meaning your team's professional resolve regarding the matter, in order to ensure delivery of the quality product that many of us pay well over hundreds of dollars a year for and deserve?

Since when are the comments of an Employee's Wife taken as official representation of that Employee's company?

Since forever. There are cases of the spouses of an employee marketing company secrets too. I absolutely am not saying anything like that is going on in this situation, only that the wife "let the cat out of the bag" publicly. Most companies have non disclosure agreements that cover issues like this.

It is 100% fair to assume the wife's opinion mirrors the husbands. If the husband felt differently he would have corrected the record at some point.

Elsonso

EdmondDontes wrote: »

It is 100% fair to assume the wife's opinion mirrors the husbands. If the husband felt differently he would have corrected the record at some point.

That might be the case, or it might not.

However, context is important, as this has been blown a little out of proportion. Regulars on the stream know that Ms Lambert has her own opinions, and she will tell you what she thinks. That is part of why people listen. These opinions may very well be hers, and not shared by Rich.

Then again, what she said is not exactly an unheard of point of view. I would hazard a guess that more than a few people in chat were part of the choir. People who harass the devs, and try to interrupt streams to do it, are not as popular across the entire ESO community as one might imagine. (Yeah, they probably know it and don't care) Her views may or may not be shared by Rich, but she is not the only player that shares those views.

sarahthes

EdmondDontes wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Murky_Dregs wrote: »

It's long past time that you upgrade your architecture. It's good to hear that plans are finally in work.

I've run many program, project, & development teams in my career ($600m+portfolio), and the offhand comments made by Rich's wife speak volumes regarding the mindset of the ZoS team.

Her remarks were incredibly candid and are definitely a real glimpse into how your people feel.

Given the glib customer disregard displayed, how do you plan to address that issue, meaning your team's professional resolve regarding the matter, in order to ensure delivery of the quality product that many of us pay well over hundreds of dollars a year for and deserve?

Since when are the comments of an Employee's Wife taken as official representation of that Employee's company?

Since forever. There are cases of the spouses of an employee marketing company secrets too. I absolutely am not saying anything like that is going on in this situation, only that the wife "let the cat out of the bag" publicly. Most companies have non disclosure agreements that cover issues like this.

It is 100% fair to assume the wife's opinion mirrors the husbands. If the husband felt differently he would have corrected the record at some point.

Or he was told to keep his mouth shut for a few days until the furor dies down...

SammyKhajit

sarahthes wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Murky_Dregs wrote: »

It's long past time that you upgrade your architecture. It's good to hear that plans are finally in work.

I've run many program, project, & development teams in my career ($600m+portfolio), and the offhand comments made by Rich's wife speak volumes regarding the mindset of the ZoS team.

Her remarks were incredibly candid and are definitely a real glimpse into how your people feel.

Given the glib customer disregard displayed, how do you plan to address that issue, meaning your team's professional resolve regarding the matter, in order to ensure delivery of the quality product that many of us pay well over hundreds of dollars a year for and deserve?

Since when are the comments of an Employee's Wife taken as official representation of that Employee's company?

Since forever. There are cases of the spouses of an employee marketing company secrets too. I absolutely am not saying anything like that is going on in this situation, only that the wife "let the cat out of the bag" publicly. Most companies have non disclosure agreements that cover issues like this.

It is 100% fair to assume the wife's opinion mirrors the husbands. If the husband felt differently he would have corrected the record at some point.

Or he was told to keep his mouth shut for a few days until the furor dies down...

This is the thing.

Richard Lambert has not made an official comment.

Terri Lambert should apologise for her comment.

Richard Lambert should also apologise.

Why is that?

Because Terri Lambert has insider knowledge, due to her marriage with Richard Lambert. That means she has unequal advantages over any other ESO streamers. This one appreciates she might have felt very protective towards her husband, but the appropriate response from Terri Lambert would have been, “that’s an interesting question. I just want to say from a personal perspective, Richard and team has been working very hard on the PVP issue, and I will let him address this in more detail.”

Richard Lambert, at the time of the fallout, should have done a quick damage control of, “Thank you Terri, and that, of course, is from your personal perspective as an ESO player. For me, [add his reply].”

But since the fallout, nothing from Richard Lambert and nothing from ZOS about policies and practices around staff and their families (ie non ZOS employees) and the protocols of addressing player questions, and thus, this kerfuffle has been allowed to fester.

ZOS owes players professional, official responses and fudging behind non—official streams to give, initially, cryptic answers, and then non-ZOS employee responses is not professional. It is not the way how you run a global business and it is not the way how you treat customers.

SammyKhajit

PS: This one is not a fan of PVP. In fact, this one hates PVP. But all the same, PVP players deserve the same respect and accountability as PVE-centric players.

EdmondDontes

Elsonso wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

It is 100% fair to assume the wife's opinion mirrors the husbands. If the husband felt differently he would have corrected the record at some point.

That might be the case, or it might not.

However, context is important, as this has been blown a little out of proportion. Regulars on the stream know that Ms Lambert has her own opinions, and she will tell you what she thinks. That is part of why people listen. These opinions may very well be hers, and not shared by Rich.

Then again, what she said is not exactly an unheard of point of view. I would hazard a guess that more than a few people in chat were part of the choir. People who harass the devs, and try to interrupt streams to do it, are not as popular across the entire ESO community as one might imagine. (Yeah, they probably know it and don't care) Her views may or may not be shared by Rich, but she is not the only player that shares those views.

The context is that for more than 4 years we've been told "we're working on it". Now we get an announcement that says they just starting working on it last quarter of last year. That is why Terri's comment has had the response it's getting.

Fruity_Ninja

This is a great update, thanks for posting!

Would be super beneficial if you keep regular updates flowing over the course of this year.

Kwoung

SammyKhajit wrote: »

This one appreciates she might have felt very protective towards her husband, but the appropriate response from Terri Lambert would have been, “that’s an interesting question. I just want to say from a personal perspective, Richard and team has been working very hard on the PVP issue, and I will let him address this in more detail.”

Or... she could have simply chosen to ignore the question completely, as most streamers would. There was no need to even acknowledge it being asked, as the question was not in relation to the topic at hand, so why even comment on it at all? Which oddly... would have put her right in line with ZOS's general stance on the matter also.

McTaterskins

@ZOS_MattFiror

A question that's on a lot of people's minds. (Might have already been asked but..)

Aside from PvP and Trial performance. (And I hope high traffic area performance..)

Does your team anticipate as to whether or not this change in the game coding will allow for things like more item slots in houses?

The house guest addition is epic. Some of the new houses are great. But we can't fit many things in them vs some of the home sizes. People could be doing even more incredible things with their homes.

Wolfkeks

They stated on the german forum that the housing limit will not be increased for the foreseeable future, mainly due to the hardware limitations of the last-gen consoles.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/595065/neues-haus-alte-leiden-kein-kauf#latest

Would love to use more items for housing tbh, but doesn't look like we're getting it on the near future.

Elsonso

SammyKhajit wrote: »

Because Terri Lambert has insider knowledge, due to her marriage with Richard Lambert. That means she has unequal advantages over any other ESO streamers. This one appreciates she might have felt very protective towards her husband, but the appropriate response from Terri Lambert would have been, “that’s an interesting question. I just want to say from a personal perspective, Richard and team has been working very hard on the PVP issue, and I will let him address this in more detail.”

Yes, she could have said it differently, but as a non-employee player of the game, ZOS really can't tell her what she can and cannot say in third-party venues. Outside of any NDA, libel, and slander issues, of course. Rich's stream is a third-party venue, although Rich may be held accountable by ZOS, as he is their employee.

I wish she had said it differently, but she is her own person, and that is how she is.

As for "insider information", that seems like a stretch. Yeah, she undoubtedly knows more than what she said, but she said nothing that was not already known.

As for "other streamers" and "unequal advantage", that does not seem to be a hindrance, if it is even a thing. There are streamers out there that are, if nothing else, very opinionated about the game, and other players. As we have seen on a number of streams in the last month, they are starting to be more of a problem than a solution. This is escalating, in my opinion.

It does not stop with the streamers, either. As an interested party sitting on the sidelines, what I see is that the person who started all of this is getting ignored. They are not a victim, they are an instigator. I will be surprised if we see an apology from them, and I won't be surprised if they try it again. The last thing that the community needs is players going into chats with the intention of picking a fight with ZOS or other groups in the community. I don't care which issue they want to fight about, either. We need to distance ourselves from those who try to start these things.

Maybe what is happening here with Ms Lambert can be a wakeup call to players and streamers, alike.

EdmondDontes wrote: »

The context is that for more than 4 years we've been told "we're working on it". Now we get an announcement that says they just starting working on it last quarter of last year.

Oh, back on topic.

I started this game at launch intending to play in Cyrodill, and I waited for years for them to fix it so that I could do that. Over the years, I have seen improvements, and steps backwards, with my own eyes, so I know they have been working on it, but I also know they have not fixed it. Also over the years, I decided they were never going to fix it and that players wanting to do more than "casual PVP" (where you don't care if it lags, or you get booted, or skills do not work...) should find another game to play. New World is really the first one to come along to fill that role, and my opinion has not changed. Serious PVP players should go try New World. (I did and do not like it for either PVE or PVP)

I say the above so you fully understand that I welcome the news that they have started working on the next attempt at fixing performance. Next attempt. Hopefully, this one will fare better than the other dozen or so that they have tried.

Kwoung wrote: »

Or... she could have simply chosen to ignore the question completely, as most streamers would. There was no need to even acknowledge it being asked, as the question was not in relation to the topic at hand, so why even comment on it at all? Which oddly... would have put her right in line with ZOS's general stance on the matter also.

Yeah. Ms Lambert is not an experienced streamer, in addition to having an opinion on a wide variety of subjects. This is why it was so easy for that person in chat to trigger her.

CaptainVenom

You need to start thinking about high latency (120+) players. While this isn't a big deal in pve situations, in pvp it is a disgrace and drives people away. We could never keep up the pace with someone animation cancelling in like 30ms at most.

This, or add a damage boost to everything and get rid of animation cancelling (not weaving) once and for all.

Kwoung

Elsonso wrote: »

Yes, she could have said it differently, but as a non-employee player of the game, ZOS really can't tell her what she can and cannot say in third-party venues. Outside of any NDA, libel, and slander issues, of course. Rich's stream is a third-party venue, although Rich may be held accountable by ZOS, as he is their employee.

Calling it a third party venue is a bit of a stretch though, since ZOS's uses those venues themselves for their "official" announcements & discussions. Also, as has probably been pointed out, Rich's stream isn't entirely "his own", as it would in fact not be relevant or probably even exist.... if it wasn't for his current position at ZOS.

I don't have a highly public job personally, but even my employment contract clearly states that if I choose to post publicly or stream anything, even if it is not directly related to my position at the company, it can in no way throw a negative light upon my company. That even includes posting/stating opinions that are or some folks may find objectionable, as it would negatively impact their decision to do business with us. It also means I am responsible for what gets said, regardless of who said it. If my kid, wife or even a friend on my couch in the background chimed in on my camera/account... I am responsible for anything they say, because I am the one putting it out there.

EdmondDontes

Elsonso wrote: »

SammyKhajit wrote: »

Because Terri Lambert has insider knowledge, due to her marriage with Richard Lambert. That means she has unequal advantages over any other ESO streamers. This one appreciates she might have felt very protective towards her husband, but the appropriate response from Terri Lambert would have been, “that’s an interesting question. I just want to say from a personal perspective, Richard and team has been working very hard on the PVP issue, and I will let him address this in more detail.”

Yes, she could have said it differently, but as a non-employee player of the game, ZOS really can't tell her what she can and cannot say in third-party venues. Outside of any NDA, libel, and slander issues, of course. Rich's stream is a third-party venue, although Rich may be held accountable by ZOS, as he is their employee.

I wish she had said it differently, but she is her own person, and that is how she is.

As for "insider information", that seems like a stretch. Yeah, she undoubtedly knows more than what she said, but she said nothing that was not already known.

As for "other streamers" and "unequal advantage", that does not seem to be a hindrance, if it is even a thing. There are streamers out there that are, if nothing else, very opinionated about the game, and other players. As we have seen on a number of streams in the last month, they are starting to be more of a problem than a solution. This is escalating, in my opinion.

It does not stop with the streamers, either. As an interested party sitting on the sidelines, what I see is that the person who started all of this is getting ignored. They are not a victim, they are an instigator. I will be surprised if we see an apology from them, and I won't be surprised if they try it again. The last thing that the community needs is players going into chats with the intention of picking a fight with ZOS or other groups in the community. I don't care which issue they want to fight about, either. We need to distance ourselves from those who try to start these things.

Maybe what is happening here with Ms Lambert can be a wakeup call to players and streamers, alike.

EdmondDontes wrote: »

The context is that for more than 4 years we've been told "we're working on it". Now we get an announcement that says they just starting working on it last quarter of last year.

Oh, back on topic.

I started this game at launch intending to play in Cyrodill, and I waited for years for them to fix it so that I could do that. Over the years, I have seen improvements, and steps backwards, with my own eyes, so I know they have been working on it, but I also know they have not fixed it. Also over the years, I decided they were never going to fix it and that players wanting to do more than "casual PVP" (where you don't care if it lags, or you get booted, or skills do not work...) should find another game to play. New World is really the first one to come along to fill that role, and my opinion has not changed. Serious PVP players should go try New World. (I did and do not like it for either PVE or PVP)

I say the above so you fully understand that I welcome the news that they have started working on the next attempt at fixing performance. Next attempt. Hopefully, this one will fare better than the other dozen or so that they have tried.

Kwoung wrote: »

Or... she could have simply chosen to ignore the question completely, as most streamers would. There was no need to even acknowledge it being asked, as the question was not in relation to the topic at hand, so why even comment on it at all? Which oddly... would have put her right in line with ZOS's general stance on the matter also.

Yeah. Ms Lambert is not an experienced streamer, in addition to having an opinion on a wide variety of subjects. This is why it was so easy for that person in chat to trigger her.

You believe they are working on it. The only way to know is to be a Zeni employee or contractor.

Elsonso

EdmondDontes wrote: »

You believe they are working on it. The only way to know is to be a Zeni employee or contractor.

Neither. I am, however, paying attention as events have unfolded over the years.

ArchMikem

SammyKhajit wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Murky_Dregs wrote: »

It's long past time that you upgrade your architecture. It's good to hear that plans are finally in work.

I've run many program, project, & development teams in my career ($600m+portfolio), and the offhand comments made by Rich's wife speak volumes regarding the mindset of the ZoS team.

Her remarks were incredibly candid and are definitely a real glimpse into how your people feel.

Given the glib customer disregard displayed, how do you plan to address that issue, meaning your team's professional resolve regarding the matter, in order to ensure delivery of the quality product that many of us pay well over hundreds of dollars a year for and deserve?

Since when are the comments of an Employee's Wife taken as official representation of that Employee's company?

Since forever. There are cases of the spouses of an employee marketing company secrets too. I absolutely am not saying anything like that is going on in this situation, only that the wife "let the cat out of the bag" publicly. Most companies have non disclosure agreements that cover issues like this.

It is 100% fair to assume the wife's opinion mirrors the husbands. If the husband felt differently he would have corrected the record at some point.

Or he was told to keep his mouth shut for a few days until the furor dies down...

This is the thing.

Richard Lambert has not made an official comment.

Terri Lambert should apologise for her comment.

Richard Lambert should also apologise.

Why is that?

Because Terri Lambert has insider knowledge, due to her marriage with Richard Lambert. That means she has unequal advantages over any other ESO streamers. This one appreciates she might have felt very protective towards her husband, but the appropriate response from Terri Lambert would have been, “that’s an interesting question. I just want to say from a personal perspective, Richard and team has been working very hard on the PVP issue, and I will let him address this in more detail.”

Richard Lambert, at the time of the fallout, should have done a quick damage control of, “Thank you Terri, and that, of course, is from your personal perspective as an ESO player. For me, [add his reply].”

But since the fallout, nothing from Richard Lambert and nothing from ZOS about policies and practices around staff and their families (ie non ZOS employees) and the protocols of addressing player questions, and thus, this kerfuffle has been allowed to fester.

ZOS owes players professional, official responses and fudging behind non—official streams to give, initially, cryptic answers, and then non-ZOS employee responses is not professional. It is not the way how you run a global business and it is not the way how you treat customers.

You're really taking advantage of hindsight in what you believe they should have said in the moment.

SammyKhajit

ArchMikem wrote: »

SammyKhajit wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Murky_Dregs wrote: »

It's long past time that you upgrade your architecture. It's good to hear that plans are finally in work.

I've run many program, project, & development teams in my career ($600m+portfolio), and the offhand comments made by Rich's wife speak volumes regarding the mindset of the ZoS team.

Her remarks were incredibly candid and are definitely a real glimpse into how your people feel.

Given the glib customer disregard displayed, how do you plan to address that issue, meaning your team's professional resolve regarding the matter, in order to ensure delivery of the quality product that many of us pay well over hundreds of dollars a year for and deserve?

Since when are the comments of an Employee's Wife taken as official representation of that Employee's company?

Since forever. There are cases of the spouses of an employee marketing company secrets too. I absolutely am not saying anything like that is going on in this situation, only that the wife "let the cat out of the bag" publicly. Most companies have non disclosure agreements that cover issues like this.

It is 100% fair to assume the wife's opinion mirrors the husbands. If the husband felt differently he would have corrected the record at some point.

Or he was told to keep his mouth shut for a few days until the furor dies down...

This is the thing.

Richard Lambert has not made an official comment.

Terri Lambert should apologise for her comment.

Richard Lambert should also apologise.

Why is that?

Because Terri Lambert has insider knowledge, due to her marriage with Richard Lambert. That means she has unequal advantages over any other ESO streamers. This one appreciates she might have felt very protective towards her husband, but the appropriate response from Terri Lambert would have been, “that’s an interesting question. I just want to say from a personal perspective, Richard and team has been working very hard on the PVP issue, and I will let him address this in more detail.”

Richard Lambert, at the time of the fallout, should have done a quick damage control of, “Thank you Terri, and that, of course, is from your personal perspective as an ESO player. For me, [add his reply].”

But since the fallout, nothing from Richard Lambert and nothing from ZOS about policies and practices around staff and their families (ie non ZOS employees) and the protocols of addressing player questions, and thus, this kerfuffle has been allowed to fester.

ZOS owes players professional, official responses and fudging behind non—official streams to give, initially, cryptic answers, and then non-ZOS employee responses is not professional. It is not the way how you run a global business and it is not the way how you treat customers.

You're really taking advantage of hindsight in what you believe they should have said in the moment.

@ArchMikem Don’t understand why these professional standards are so difficult to comprehend.

Allow this one to explain.

This one responded based on on what this one would do IRL.

In Sammy’s personal life, partner works in the same field as Sammy but in a different institution. This one from time to time collaborate with partner on projects because it is a niche field. So in that regard, this one has a close working relationship with their partner.

If there is any criticism/concern about Sammy’s partner and their work which does NOT involve Sammy professionally (ie we are not collaborating), even levelled in a situation which Sammy is present, Sammy DOES NOT ENGAGE. Why? Because that’s the partner’s job and context to engage. If Sammy waded in, it’d actually undermine partner’s capacity and authority to speak on their own.

Jazraena

@ZOS_MattFiror I'd just like to comment that I am amazed at what you folks are planning to do. There's many a company out there that would probably rather let a game die and build a successor than redesigning a significant chunk of their server architecture.

Ignore the naysayers. Some of us very much understand and appreciate the magnitude of what you're planning to do. Thank you.

SammyKhajit

Elsonso wrote: »

SammyKhajit wrote: »

Because Terri Lambert has insider knowledge, due to her marriage with Richard Lambert. That means she has unequal advantages over any other ESO streamers. This one appreciates she might have felt very protective towards her husband, but the appropriate response from Terri Lambert would have been, “that’s an interesting question. I just want to say from a personal perspective, Richard and team has been working very hard on the PVP issue, and I will let him address this in more detail.”

Yes, she could have said it differently, but as a non-employee player of the game, ZOS really can't tell her what she can and cannot say in third-party venues. Outside of any NDA, libel, and slander issues, of course. Rich's stream is a third-party venue, although Rich may be held accountable by ZOS, as he is their employee.

I wish she had said it differently, but she is her own person, and that is how she is.

As for "insider information", that seems like a stretch. Yeah, she undoubtedly knows more than what she said, but she said nothing that was not already known.

As for "other streamers" and "unequal advantage", that does not seem to be a hindrance, if it is even a thing. There are streamers out there that are, if nothing else, very opinionated about the game, and other players. As we have seen on a number of streams in the last month, they are starting to be more of a problem than a solution. This is escalating, in my opinion.

It does not stop with the streamers, either. As an interested party sitting on the sidelines, what I see is that the person who started all of this is getting ignored. They are not a victim, they are an instigator. I will be surprised if we see an apology from them, and I won't be surprised if they try it again. The last thing that the community needs is players going into chats with the intention of picking a fight with ZOS or other groups in the community. I don't care which issue they want to fight about, either. We need to distance ourselves from those who try to start these things.

Maybe what is happening here with Ms Lambert can be a wakeup call to players and streamers, alike.

EdmondDontes wrote: »

The context is that for more than 4 years we've been told "we're working on it". Now we get an announcement that says they just starting working on it last quarter of last year.

Oh, back on topic.

Actually, it’s the public private divide that caused so much drama in the first place.

Terri Lambert has inside knowledge because of her relationship with Richard Lambert, as well as their occasional streaming ventures.

You don’t get many part time streamers who are married to the creative director of a big name franchise.

@ArchMikem made similar (and regrettably shortsighted) comments which made this one thinks that there is a cultural difference in NA private sector. Or maybe it’s an issue that needs to be addressed soon, which is how should companies frame their code of conduct in relation to employees and their family members who engage in activities that promote the company product.

Beardimus

Well ... This thread appears to have gone off down a rabbit hole .

Back to where @ZOS_MattFiror started it :

ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »

It’s long past time to give everyone an update on where we are with PvP improvements. As many of you know, we did a series of tests over the last year to give us more data. These tests were successful and gave us the information we needed. We now have a plan going forward - but heads up: it is going to take some time.

In short – just like we did for the client a year or so back when we introduced multithreaded rendering to increase client frame rates – we are going to rearchitect our server. The version of ESO in 2022 is many magnitudes larger and more complex than the ESO that launched in 2014. So, in order to give everyone a good play experience in high-intensity situations like PvP and Trials, we need to essentially rewrite some of the foundational server code to account for it. This should dramatically increase server performance, but obviously we will need to test and evaluate as we go along.

We’ve been planning this for the last quarter and we’re starting work on it right now. But, as you can imagine, changing the fundamentals of a huge live game such as ESO is a delicate and multi-stepped process, so expect this to take up much of 2022. Much of the early work is going to happen behind the scenes and we are definitely not going to rush it. A re-architecture of this magnitude will require the entire game to be re-tested and evaluated, as this particular code is the foundation on which the game is built. It will take tons of QA and testing time as well, and I’m sure that when the time comes, we’ll do as large a test as we can on the PTS.

In the meantime, we’ll consider additional ways to keep Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds interesting and exciting (for example, potentially special rulesets or weekend events) and will continue to work on bug fixes affecting combat, but we won’t be adding any new features to PvP until the work mentioned above is complete. Doing so would not only prolong the fixes we want to implement but would also exacerbate the issue of poor performance.

We completely understand the frustration many of you are feeling, especially with lack of information about our PvP plans. This was a huge decision to make and we needed to make sure we had exhausted all other possibilities before announcing this. Thanks for bearing with us, and we will give you periodic updates about the re-architecture progress over the course of the year.

This is nothing but ace news. To have it acknowledged that a serious change is needed is one thing but also to have a fix roadmapped.

Clearly they had to try low hanging fruit first. Many felt that wouldn't be the root cause so this just backs that up.

I think it's ace with a game along its lifecycle that this type of focus and investment into the PvP side us going to happen.

furiouslog

ArchMikem wrote: »

You're really taking advantage of hindsight in what you believe they should have said in the moment.

Looking at Rich's body language in that video, you could tell that he knew that the floodgates were likely to open after she did the crying motion. At that point, he either has to do damage control and contradict his wife right away on the stream, or has has to let it go and see if it settles down, which is a difficult decision to make. Factor in the context that the Lamberts were engaging in some edgy comedy with the chat participants, and maybe they thought it was a little much, but that their audience could take it.

When I saw the video, I'll admit that I was offended at first, and yeah, your head goes to "wow is this what they all really think of us?" It's a lost opportunity that they did not follow up with "hey we were just kidding, we love our PVPers" sort of statement, and that silence went on too long.

Honestly, though, as a Steelers fan I was far more offended at Rich's shirt. I'm glad the parrot weighed in like it did.

LordOsiris

Finaly, thank you very much Matt. Finaly, finaly, finaly ... This is the way ... I can turn back PRO. JUHU!!!! I have been wait for so long!

InvitationNotFound

TequilaFire wrote: »

Makes more sense to optimize server code they have now before the expense of specific hard to get at the moment hardware.
Then there is the whole TCP vs UDP problem.
One could also invest in better anti-cheat software for PC which is the pain point.
I do believe they are on the right track now, time will tell.

No, no anti-cheat software. This crap is intrusive af and often runs with higher privileges on your machine.
In addition a decent coder / reverse engineer could still be able to bypass the detection.
It is the same principle as with anything else that is security related.
If you have an e-banking (web app) you want the web application to verify the data and not some random client side crap that could be bypassed.

Lysette wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I thought CUDA was only compatible with Nividia GPU cores which would leave AMD and console players out.
Although I admit I haven't checked lately but I thought OpenCL was the only choice on AMD.

What was being suggested, as I interpreted it, was that ZOS would use NVIDIA GPUs on the server-side and offload client/player/character related tasks to them.

Yeah, this - basically what was on client machines after launch and what they have taken back to the server - what was a good step, but now it lacks parallel computation there - but this can be achieved as well, if the parallel workload is put on server-side CUDA hardware, which is designed for this task - and doesn't need graphical output, but is purely for massively parallel computation. It will be running non-stop, so it has to be something really professional, not a consumer market graphic-card - but professional high duty CUDA hardware.

The tricky part of that is not getting it on the CUDA hardware, but to find a good enough data representation and kernel code, which can do the computation while avoiding too many branching instructions - you can imagine that a combat system which has so many conditions to check, has there it's bottleneck - this needs some clever data and code design - and that is why those developing this need to know at start, if their software will run and use actual parallel computation hardware or be just another workaround on normal server blades.

You are assuming that things can be calculated in parallel. I doubt that this is the case here.
Synchronizing threads is expensive too and might void all the little benefits you would get from the few things you can even run in parallel.

Lysette

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Makes more sense to optimize server code they have now before the expense of specific hard to get at the moment hardware.
Then there is the whole TCP vs UDP problem.
One could also invest in better anti-cheat software for PC which is the pain point.
I do believe they are on the right track now, time will tell.

No, no anti-cheat software. This crap is intrusive af and often runs with higher privileges on your machine.
In addition a decent coder / reverse engineer could still be able to bypass the detection.
It is the same principle as with anything else that is security related.
If you have an e-banking (web app) you want the web application to verify the data and not some random client side crap that could be bypassed.

Lysette wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I thought CUDA was only compatible with Nividia GPU cores which would leave AMD and console players out.
Although I admit I haven't checked lately but I thought OpenCL was the only choice on AMD.

What was being suggested, as I interpreted it, was that ZOS would use NVIDIA GPUs on the server-side and offload client/player/character related tasks to them.

Yeah, this - basically what was on client machines after launch and what they have taken back to the server - what was a good step, but now it lacks parallel computation there - but this can be achieved as well, if the parallel workload is put on server-side CUDA hardware, which is designed for this task - and doesn't need graphical output, but is purely for massively parallel computation. It will be running non-stop, so it has to be something really professional, not a consumer market graphic-card - but professional high duty CUDA hardware.

The tricky part of that is not getting it on the CUDA hardware, but to find a good enough data representation and kernel code, which can do the computation while avoiding too many branching instructions - you can imagine that a combat system which has so many conditions to check, has there it's bottleneck - this needs some clever data and code design - and that is why those developing this need to know at start, if their software will run and use actual parallel computation hardware or be just another workaround on normal server blades.

You are assuming that things can be calculated in parallel. I doubt that this is the case here.
Synchronizing threads is expensive too and might void all the little benefits you would get from the few things you can even run in parallel.

Well, they did it before on client machines - so why shouldn't it be possible inhouse on a massively parallel hardware then?- It was outsourced to client machines, so these kind of calculations had to be independent from each other to do that in the first place - I think, it is well possible to do that.

And you have to synchronize nothing on an SIMD device - data is transferred to it - and once the kernel starts it computes all of the data in parallel in a synchronized way, because any instruction will be done one after the other on all of the input data in parallel- this is how this works and while the kernel is running there is no way to interfere with it.

What can slow it down is bad coding kernel-sided - because as it is doing just a single instruction at a time in parallel on multiple data, any branching occurring in the kernel leads to sequential processing inside the parallel process - first one branch is computed, then the other branch - in this case there is something sequential in a parallel process, which increase the amount of sequential processing in the whole computation. This has to be avoided - for example by trying to inline computation instead to use branching and other ways to go around this bottleneck - it requires some thought of course - gain from parallel processing is heavily dependent on the amount of sequential parts in the process - see Amdahl's law - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law

spacefracking

hurray!

Myux

CaptainVenom wrote: »

You need to start thinking about high latency (120+) players. While this isn't a big deal in pve situations, in pvp it is a disgrace and drives people away. We could never keep up the pace with someone animation cancelling in like 30ms at most.

This, or add a damage boost to everything and get rid of animation cancelling (not weaving) once and for all.

hi, i play at 150 and have no issues in pvp aside from personal skill ones. additionally, one of the best pvpers i know, pelican (pelican eso on youtube if u wanna inspect), plays at around 300 ping. i guarentee you its purely a L2P issue. theres no advanced animation cancelling in the game, theres only weaving and rolling after an attack (that isnt a good ult) now. zos deleted all the other useful ones. ive seen less experienced players mistake some things for animation cancelling, so youre probably mistaking something for that. feel free to tell me what it is and ill give u the info i have. if i remember to log onto the forums lol

Jaraal

Firstmep wrote: »

tim77 wrote: »

I hope this doesnt get deleted.
This happens every year, new year, new promises to fix pvp. People eat it up like cupcakes, thanking the devs for this "newfound transparency" and communication, and then nothing actually improves.
At least this time we are told not to expect any improvements for a year, I guess that's something.

And yet the lag, desynchs, and disconnects get worse by the month in Cyrodiil. And even if they are successful, performance won’t be fixed in a year. That’s when they (maybe….. yet to be seen) START the process, which in itself could take years to complete.

Silversmith

So expect more words in 2023 about why these problems will still exist in 2022? Got it.

Karivaa

I sure appreciate you working on PVP! The other night I DC’d in Cyrodiil 3 times in a row so logged off. Xbox NA Greyhost, Xbox series S.

malistorr

I don't have time to read through 9-pages of posts. I just hope that in addition to recoding parts of the game, ZOS will be doing a complete hardware refresh too. As an IT person with a couple decades of experience and someone who just replaced every server in our company, I know the importance of keeping hardware up-to-date as well as making sure your code is optimized. It is just as important for improving the performance of the game, if not more so. I read a comment/post by someone at ZOS about how the pandemic impacted/prevented ZOS from rebuilding/replacing hardware over the past year or 2 but a hardware refresh is badly needed if it hasn't already been done in the past few years. Glad to see this post though. I wish I could fast forward a year to see if performance will really be better.