ESO PvP Update [Updated June 2022]

AJones43865

sarahthes wrote: »

AJones43865 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

malistorr wrote: »

Yep it's just hard to believe. I replaced a whole company worth of servers during the pandemic. (Phone and internet company) No problems getting server RAM, SSD hard drives, and the whole servers themselves from Dell. There may have been an extra week or 2 for shipping but no problems at all otherwise. I'm sure they need a lot of hardware but a company like them would be moved to the front of the line.

I will disagree that stuff is showing up like it used to, but as someone who also builds/replaces TONS of server infrastructure, the worst case I have seen is 8 months. Had they actually ordered the hardware when they announced they were, it would have arrived and been able to install many months ago. I am of the opinion they never ordered it, and probably still haven't.

I am actually wondering if we will know. I mean, they can be installing hardware and getting it ready at any time. I would imagine that the upgrades are replacements. They can install and test it without taking down the servers. During some maintenance, they switch over to the new hardware and turn off the old. They don't have to do it all at once, either. They can do it in batches. The bottom line is that if they don't tell us, we won't know.

We will know if performance improves or not. We will know. As customers we absolutely can determine what is going on based upon the results. If nothing gets better, as it hasn't consistently for years, then we will know whether or not we are still being strung along. Frankly, and I'm not just speaking for myself here, I feel like ZOS is dragging the customers behind their metaphorical truck on some dusty back road somewhere and laughing at us for thanking them for it.

I don't think we will be able to tell when they upgrade the hardware. Given they say the issues with performance are based on bad code, upgrading hardware isn't likely to fix anything with performance.

We will know when and if performance improves. Same as we know performance is really bad right now. I don't care if it's the code or the hardware. I care if the game works, and it's got a lot of serious problems and has had for years. They've said they are working on it, but they don't have any positive results to show for their work. So it leaves the customer wondering if they were ever honest about working on it or just stringing us along to keep the memberships active. As customers we have no way of knowing why, but we do know there are no positive results to show for their years and years of "we're working on it" to date.

Elsonso

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AJones43865 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

malistorr wrote: »

Yep it's just hard to believe. I replaced a whole company worth of servers during the pandemic. (Phone and internet company) No problems getting server RAM, SSD hard drives, and the whole servers themselves from Dell. There may have been an extra week or 2 for shipping but no problems at all otherwise. I'm sure they need a lot of hardware but a company like them would be moved to the front of the line.

I will disagree that stuff is showing up like it used to, but as someone who also builds/replaces TONS of server infrastructure, the worst case I have seen is 8 months. Had they actually ordered the hardware when they announced they were, it would have arrived and been able to install many months ago. I am of the opinion they never ordered it, and probably still haven't.

I am actually wondering if we will know. I mean, they can be installing hardware and getting it ready at any time. I would imagine that the upgrades are replacements. They can install and test it without taking down the servers. During some maintenance, they switch over to the new hardware and turn off the old. They don't have to do it all at once, either. They can do it in batches. The bottom line is that if they don't tell us, we won't know.

We will know if performance improves or not. We will know. As customers we absolutely can determine what is going on based upon the results. If nothing gets better, as it hasn't consistently for years, then we will know whether or not we are still being strung along. Frankly, and I'm not just speaking for myself here, I feel like ZOS is dragging the customers behind their metaphorical truck on some dusty back road somewhere and laughing at us.

Yeah, but this hardware refresh is not about performance, and by their own report, won't have that much performance impact. Now, that was a year ago that they said this, but they would claim credit for it, if they could. They haven't.

malistorr

I feel bad for many of the devs and lower-level employees because I've been there. They hear and see the complaints and pass them along to the upper level managers and maybe even all the way up to the executives. As long as the game keeps making boatloads of money and they have plenty of players the upper-level management will not throw more financial resources into hardware refreshes and hiring more people who can actually rewrite the code to fix the game. I'm sorry but nothing else anyone says here matters. Unless people stop playing, buying crowns etc. the game will not improve. The only thing that matters to the top-level people at this company is how profitable they are. They should stop putting out more content for a year and fix the thousands of bugs but they don't because... MONEY! The sad part is that most of the people in the company or who work on the game probably want to improve it and try to but the money counters will always get in the way. Welcome to for-profit companies. They make so much money from people buying Crowns that they literally have not made ES6 because they don't want it to take players away from this game which is their cash cow.

Jaraal

AJones43865 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

malistorr wrote: »

Yep it's just hard to believe. I replaced a whole company worth of servers during the pandemic. (Phone and internet company) No problems getting server RAM, SSD hard drives, and the whole servers themselves from Dell. There may have been an extra week or 2 for shipping but no problems at all otherwise. I'm sure they need a lot of hardware but a company like them would be moved to the front of the line.

I will disagree that stuff is showing up like it used to, but as someone who also builds/replaces TONS of server infrastructure, the worst case I have seen is 8 months. Had they actually ordered the hardware when they announced they were, it would have arrived and been able to install many months ago. I am of the opinion they never ordered it, and probably still haven't.

The problem is they've been telling us they are working on it for over 4 years now, and performance has gotten discernibly worse even though population caps have been slashed to roughly 75/players/faction.

Now they are telling us "they're working on it, and we have to wait at least another year before we see any results."

There is this story about a boy who cried wolf too many times. Eventually people stopped believing the boy.

At this point, and for at least the next year it sounds, the results will speak for themselves apparently.

Yeah, you'd have to be excessively optimistic to put faith in anything they say at this point regarding performance.

We'll see what happens.... eventually.

Sagetim

Jaraal wrote: »

Sagetim wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Sagetim wrote: »

I see we are back to the 1 year and we will fix it again. How about remove all proc sets till it is fixed. that will improve things... the last set that have come out for PVP have broken the game more.

There was no performance improvement from removing proc sets. I have no idea why this fallacy keeps being perpetuated.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7149943/#Comment_7149943

Really, it's amazing "YOU" are saying that when "OTHERS" have said different. SO with that side, others see if different and so did I

Lol, "I" didn't say it. The people who wrote the game code and monitored the data from the no-proc tests said it. If you'd prefer to believe opinions versus facts, that's your prerogative.

Also I said "Improve things" they even said that removing the proc set breathed new life into PVP.... that's an improvement in my opinion. ALSO this was before they released [snip] into PVP called Dark Convergence and Plaguebreak

[edited for rude/insulting comment]

malistorr

Play no CP/no Proc [snip]

[edited for rude/insulting comment]

blktauna

No CP No Proc is trash and on NA is Dead. For a reason. We want our old Ravenwatch back.

FlaviusPK

Magnitude *y **s!

Sandman929

Is there a community more optimistic than ours? 7 years of "we're going to work on it" and we still cheer when we read it.

malistorr

There are lots of new things you can buy with crowns right now. I'm sure they'll spend the money to fix some bugs, buy new hardware, and hire more devs.

coletas

The joke of every year. Sorry Matt, but with all my respects, I dont believe a word. The same promises every year. Is just an real opinion, I dont want to anybody feel bad about it, and I would love to believe on everything your team says, but the true is that is always a disaster. How many pvp players you lost just this year? In my guild, all... 200 players. No one of them in New World. Sorry but my degree of believing on words about performance, PvP, broken new sets etc is near the same to Chris Roberts words lol seriously... You need serious and experienced analysts. I understand we leaders and developers have our hearts towards those who are near us, but everybody is capable only of what is capable... And some task are really visible (after 7 years hitting the same rock...) that are far near from their capabilities and should work in other tasks they domain or will be able to grow. I hope you the best as a developer team and of course as a normal persons, and I hope somewhere in 2023 I can return to retract all words from above, congratulate you and play teso PvP again.

shadyjane62

Fix one dang thing. Fix the stuck in combat bug and I will believe you are serious about improving pvp.

OrdoHermetica

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Fix one dang thing. Fix the stuck in combat bug and I will believe you are serious about improving pvp.

The fact that it has literally been several years since that bug was introduced and it still hasn't been fixed is a pretty good example of why I'm pretty dubious about this statement, yeah. I mean, I appreciate the communication, but at this point? I'll believe it when I see it, and not a moment before.

Jaraal

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Fix one dang thing. Fix the stuck in combat bug and I will believe you are serious about improving pvp.

The fact that it has literally been several years since that bug was introduced and it still hasn't been fixed is a pretty good example of why I'm pretty dubious about this statement, yeah. I mean, I appreciate the communication, but at this point? I'll believe it when I see it, and not a moment before.

Not to mention the 49,710 day debuff bug caused by by an integer stack overflow. The malfunction has been active for years, without ever being addressed. If they can't fix something that simple, how can we expect the more complex issues to be resolved?

Pink_E_808

I saved this video yesterday (PS5 NA GH). No one else around, and yet I can barely cap a resource. No, it's not always like this, but it's happening more often for sure. As a five star, it borders on embarrassing needing help to flip resources. I've kept my hopes up for a long, long time now but those are slowing waning and my frustrations are starting to outpace the hope. One of the things keeping me around still is knowing I'm not the only one having these kinds of issues. I love this game. I do not want to find another game. I've put so much time, effort and money into my account and I'm not ready to give it all up, so I am rooting for you ZOS. Please don't let us down.

https://youtu.be/GKLMeQLQYi0

blktauna

Pink_E_808 wrote: »

I saved this video yesterday (PS5 NA GH). No one else around, and yet I can barely cap a resource. No, it's not always like this, but it's happening more often for sure. As a five star, it borders on embarrassing needing help to flip resources. I've kept my hopes up for a long, long time now but those are slowing waning and my frustrations are starting to outpace the hope. One of the things keeping me around still is knowing I'm not the only one having these kinds of issues. I love this game. I do not want to find another game. I've put so much time, effort and money into my account and I'm not ready to give it all up, so I am rooting for you ZOS. Please don't let us down.

https://youtu.be/GKLMeQLQYi0

These effin guards are out of control. 3 of them will negate you, cc you and stun you while miraculously resetting themselves when you get them halfway down in health. Then they all respawn because you lagged out.

That was some epic lag my friend.

esogamer2021

Last three days I’ve had to stop playing at prime time the game lag has been that bad it’s really been unplayable in cryo, it would be better if the devs and the actual game management came into cyro to experience what we experience daily , telling them is one thing but to experience it is a totally different one and I’m sure they would get the full lag and frustration effect very very quickly

atherusmora

Pink_E_808 wrote: »

I saved this video yesterday (PS5 NA GH). No one else around, and yet I can barely cap a resource. No, it's not always like this, but it's happening more often for sure. As a five star, it borders on embarrassing needing help to flip resources. I've kept my hopes up for a long, long time now but those are slowing waning and my frustrations are starting to outpace the hope. One of the things keeping me around still is knowing I'm not the only one having these kinds of issues. I love this game. I do not want to find another game. I've put so much time, effort and money into my account and I'm not ready to give it all up, so I am rooting for you ZOS. Please don't let us down.

https://youtu.be/GKLMeQLQYi0

Thanks for posting this because is my experience everytime I’ve logged into Cyro for the past couple of months. No hyperbole. I haven’t dedicated play time to a campaign in two months because the lag and BOD makes it unplayable, prime time or not. I’ve stopped playing ESO for the first time in 7 years, and it sucks because there aren’t any other games out there that compare, but I refuse to continue to pay for services that I’m not able to enjoy.

EF321

I also wonder if these improvements will improve "balance" changes that were done for the sake of performance:
- Dots ticking twice as slower than before
- "Trap" duration reduced to 15 second
- CP change cooldown

And possibly other that I can't think of right now.

Elsonso

EF321 wrote: »

I also wonder if these improvements will improve "balance" changes that were done for the sake of performance:
- Dots ticking twice as slower than before
- "Trap" duration reduced to 15 second
- CP change cooldown

And possibly other that I can't think of right now.

Along the same lines, if this rework fixes performance, I am wondering how many of the changes they made to performance will be rolled back. Everything from missing deer and squirrels (which should remain banished) to drastically smaller campaign sizes, and anything else they tossed in there while they looked for a solution.

Naglaami

Finally So exited about this.

hakan

Murky_Dregs wrote: »

It's long past time that you upgrade your architecture. It's good to hear that plans are finally in work.

I've run many program, project, & development teams in my career ($600m+portfolio), and the offhand comments made by Rich's wife speak volumes regarding the mindset of the ZoS team.

Her remarks were incredibly candid and are definitely a real glimpse into how your people feel.

Given the glib customer disregard displayed, how do you plan to address that issue, meaning your team's professional resolve regarding the matter, in order to ensure delivery of the quality product that many of us pay well over hundreds of dollars a year for and deserve?

Whats this about? The part that includes richs wife and all that? I was absent for a long time, so im wondering what this is.

VaranisArano

hakan wrote: »

Murky_Dregs wrote: »

It's long past time that you upgrade your architecture. It's good to hear that plans are finally in work.

I've run many program, project, & development teams in my career ($600m+portfolio), and the offhand comments made by Rich's wife speak volumes regarding the mindset of the ZoS team.

Her remarks were incredibly candid and are definitely a real glimpse into how your people feel.

Given the glib customer disregard displayed, how do you plan to address that issue, meaning your team's professional resolve regarding the matter, in order to ensure delivery of the quality product that many of us pay well over hundreds of dollars a year for and deserve?

Whats this about? The part that includes richs wife and all that? I was absent for a long time, so im wondering what this is.

This article does a fairly good writeup of the recently kerfuffle: https://massivelyop.com/2022/01/12/elder-scrolls-online-pvpers-are-grumpy-over-an-out-of-context-stream-clip/

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

It's so bad right now.
The set additions and the performance have left this part of the game in a horrible state, truly horrible.
I just log out after 20 mins of play.

ADarklore

BlossomDead wrote: »

So should all PvPers cancel subs for the foreseeable next 2 years or so? This announcement tells me I shouldn't get my hopes high for an unacceptable amount of time. With the state of PvP now, it really means I'm expected to accept being unable to play for years more.

Software development is not that complicated as you make it sound. Maybe this statement would work with a clueless upper management, but certainly not with a community already waiting for years for significant fixes.

IMHO your priority should be this, and only this. Hire more people if you need to. Everything else is irrelevant.

This to me is only PR damage control.

[snip] Also, keep in mind the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of players care more about PVE and questing, the PVP community is a significant minority in the game. Sure some players do both, but if you've been playing ESO for as many years as I have- you'd know what I say is true. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

malistorr

ADarklore PVP players know that most people play PVE and a lot of us do too. I'm happy about any PVE bugs being fixed. There are hundreds more that have been neglected for months or years. But there are PVP players paying hundreds and thousands of dollars on the game as well and we have a right to be unhappy with PVP performance for a game that we're financially supporting. If the game were 100% free then we probably wouldn't have a right to complain. But we're paying customers too and ZOS should be listening to our feedback and fixing this other part of the game that thousands of their paying customers play. PVP performance has been bad for the life of the game and in a lot of ways continues to get worse. ZOS says they're going to rewrite things and who knows, maybe in a year or 2 things will get better. Until then their paying customers will continue to complain. It is what it is.

To BlossomDead, maybe you should cancel? It is the most effective way to get ZOS to pay attention to and prioritize these complaints about PVP, if people stop playing and paying. I disagree that software development is not complicated as I know better from experience.

AJones43865

ADarklore wrote: »

BlossomDead wrote: »

So should all PvPers cancel subs for the foreseeable next 2 years or so? This announcement tells me I shouldn't get my hopes high for an unacceptable amount of time. With the state of PvP now, it really means I'm expected to accept being unable to play for years more.

Software development is not that complicated as you make it sound. Maybe this statement would work with a clueless upper management, but certainly not with a community already waiting for years for significant fixes.

IMHO your priority should be this, and only this. Hire more people if you need to. Everything else is irrelevant.

This to me is only PR damage control.

[snip] Also, keep in mind the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of players care more about PVE and questing, the PVP community is a significant minority in the game. Sure some players do both, but if you've been playing ESO for as many years as I have- you'd know what I say is true. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

You are plainly wrong. Every PvP player has done the vast majority if not all of the PvE in the game. Most PvP players spend far more on the game than a casual PvE player does. PvP is PvE+ a ton more time and money investment is how it works out in the real world.

Jaraal

AJones43865 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

BlossomDead wrote: »

So should all PvPers cancel subs for the foreseeable next 2 years or so? This announcement tells me I shouldn't get my hopes high for an unacceptable amount of time. With the state of PvP now, it really means I'm expected to accept being unable to play for years more.

Software development is not that complicated as you make it sound. Maybe this statement would work with a clueless upper management, but certainly not with a community already waiting for years for significant fixes.

IMHO your priority should be this, and only this. Hire more people if you need to. Everything else is irrelevant.

This to me is only PR damage control.

[snip] Also, keep in mind the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of players care more about PVE and questing, the PVP community is a significant minority in the game. Sure some players do both, but if you've been playing ESO for as many years as I have- you'd know what I say is true. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

You are plainly wrong. Every PvP player has done the vast majority if not all of the PvE in the game. Most PvP players spend far more on the game than a casual PvE player does. PvP is PvE+ a ton more time and money investment is how it works out in the real world.

Yeah you'll see a higher percentage of fancy mounts, skins, polymorphs, arms packs, and whatnot in Cyrodiil than you will any other zone.

McTaterskins

Exactly what Jaraal and AJones just said, and then some.

malistorr

Yes I'd say every PVP player has done tons of PVE. We have to to earn the gold, mats, and gear needed to be successful at PVP. Nevermind that we need at least a few hundred skill points and need to level up just about all the skills (including crafting) to be even decent at PVP.

Try just going into any Cyrodiil content without skills and gear pretty much maxed out and tell me how you do. I feel sorry for anyone riding around on a mount that doesn't have at least stam and speed maxed out. Oh yeah you need the best food and potions/poisons too.