PTS Update 29 - Feedback Thread for Champion Point System

Nordic__Knights

todays change to system was nice , but they still need to look at the trees and placing slot ables , for the green tree theres TIME to switch alot of them around depending on what your doing , in the blue tree not so much and theres alot of slot ables due to being power tree , then theres the red tree if your an dd or healer you got 1 slot used rest are passive ( yes i can put point into tank items , but im an dd not an tank ) . this offset makes it so that 3 of my 12 slot ables dont get used at all .
it be useful if we could use slot ables from other trees to fell the caps ( even if its limited to 1 from each different tree can be used in any tree , making max ever 2 extra from any tree ) of un used slots due to role

Artanisul

tmbrinks wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

I can't test anything on PTS, so I have a question for the PvP players who have been on.

How much power advantage does a 1600 cp have over a 1200 for instance? I know you have to slot 4 passives, but aren't there some you always get? If so, does that extra CP makes a huge difference? Even if it is small margins like 2% here and 3% there, you add a few of them up and it makes all the difference in PvP.

I would bet when all the number crunching gets done the TOTAL difference between 1200 CP and 1600 CP is less than 3% combined... and less than 5% when compared with somebody at max CP.

Player skill is and still will be much, much more important than your CP.

You cant fill all the passives and all the slottable stars at 1200. so adding 1% per CP is going to add more than you are saying.

In other words, you would loose the bet you just made. There will be a difference in PvE content and a much larger one in PvP stuff because you can get tankier and add more damage per CP you have over your enemy

They did not solve the problems, they just moved them around a bit.

I must say, for the content I do, this new system won't change my day. I only go near the PVP land for the stamina heal lol.
I just like to keep all the facts clear. We loose power after this goes live. Dungeon crawlers will be affected negatively. I really don't see a positive in this at all. Casual play won't take the hit like Vet content.

karekiz

Please remove the link <Forced to buy to unlock "Other" CP's> system. It adds nothing. While you could argue it would make introducing the system to new players less daunting <Less choice = less overwhelmed player>, that is thrown right out the window with randomly placed non-linked CP Passives and slot passives. Such as the upper right three in red CP being HP/Armor/Regen. While they look like they *should* link they aren't for unknown reasons.

silvereyes

tmbrinks wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

I can't test anything on PTS, so I have a question for the PvP players who have been on.

How much power advantage does a 1600 cp have over a 1200 for instance? I know you have to slot 4 passives, but aren't there some you always get? If so, does that extra CP makes a huge difference? Even if it is small margins like 2% here and 3% there, you add a few of them up and it makes all the difference in PvP.

I would bet when all the number crunching gets done the TOTAL difference between 1200 CP and 1600 CP is less than 3% combined... and less than 5% when compared with somebody at max CP.

Player skill is and still will be much, much more important than your CP.

That may be true, but it also fairly irrelevant to the question of whether grinding for CP above 1200 will convey enough of a power advantage to make it somewhat mandatory, or at least to convey the impression that it is.

If the stated goal is for vertical progression to stop at CP 1200, then there should be 0% power advantage to grinding past that point, not 3-5%.

albumoculus

With reference to this post ZOS, consider reversing the changes you've made to Fighting Finesse and Flawless Ritual, the reduction was far too heavy, from stage 5 to stage 2.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/561176/v-6-3-2-dont-change-fighting-finesse-and-flawless-ritual#latest

Firstmep

Artanisul wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

I can't test anything on PTS, so I have a question for the PvP players who have been on.

How much power advantage does a 1600 cp have over a 1200 for instance? I know you have to slot 4 passives, but aren't there some you always get? If so, does that extra CP makes a huge difference? Even if it is small margins like 2% here and 3% there, you add a few of them up and it makes all the difference in PvP.

I would bet when all the number crunching gets done the TOTAL difference between 1200 CP and 1600 CP is less than 3% combined... and less than 5% when compared with somebody at max CP.

Player skill is and still will be much, much more important than your CP.

You cant fill all the passives and all the slottable stars at 1200. so adding 1% per CP is going to add more than you are saying.

In other words, you would loose the bet you just made. There will be a difference in PvE content and a much larger one in PvP stuff because you can get tankier and add more damage per CP you have over your enemy

They did not solve the problems, they just moved them around a bit.

I must say, for the content I do, this new system won't change my day. I only go near the PVP land for the stamina heal lol.
I just like to keep all the facts clear. We loose power after this goes live. Dungeon crawlers will be affected negatively. I really don't see a positive in this at all. Casual play won't take the hit like Vet content.

Yeah, not true, many stars don't have their effects active unless you slot them.
They actually reduced the number of always active stars, and how many points they take to max out.
Also you don't necesseraly need to pick up everything, and th bonuses on some of them are rather minor too.

Brrrofski

Thanks for your answers. I'm not too concerned about myself, I have 1350 or so CP.

My main concern is how does it affect those players who have just hit around the 810 mark.

At the end of the day, I want more people to try pvp, enjoy it and play it more.

On xbox eu, our community is pretty small. We don't even pop lock one campaign outside of midyear.

Last thing the game needs is people joining pvp, been 400/500 cp behind others and that the gap makes a lot of difference. Newbies will get demolished and not come back.

Also, I think a lot of long time players will stop playing too. Some people ONLY pvp, and xp gain sucks in pvp. If a lot of players feel like they need to go grind cp again to be competitive, I think a lot won't bother.

remosito

The new Exp to CP curve has not been flattened enough. am 1200 on live. With new curve that would put me at 1360CP

A bit above where vertical progrerssion is to stop and horizontal progression is supposed to have started according to your stated goals. Afaik. And whether that is the case or not is another matter and currently not even testable as dummies are still borked.

It took me a couple thousand hours played to get there!!!!!!!!!

Horizontal progression and ability to switch CP specs depending on need (healer/tank, solo, pvp) taking 1000s of hours to achieve is ridiculous. If this curve and CPs needed for multi-role respeccing stays in I will actively discourage people to start playing eso.

If you flatten the curve more without adjusting CP of existing players the difference between what CP I have and what CP I would have with new curve and same exp will increase significantly. Same forumula as now but softCap increased from 1020 as is on PTS to say 1200. My Exp earned so far would give me 1500CP. Loosing 300CP just because YOU screwed up and took years to fix CP1.0 and were forced to stop increasing cap. I don't think so!

I have played every hour of those thousands with eso+. Bought crown packs on occasion. Written mods.

If you don't reimburse us at least partially with extra CP I will cancel eso+ and probably leave.
(say ( CP1.0(myexp) + CP2.0(myexp) )/2 (half we get, half gets thrown down the drain)).

Syrpynt

You know, with all the people complaining about their dps dropping on the PTS, what if ZOS just lowered the health of enemies with the damage drop? Then the dps drop doesn't matter.

I'd rather see more hard-set mechanics than damage-rushing fights that players use animation cancelling to brute force and bypass mechanics entirely. Obviously some fights would still be like that, sure--it's a mechanic of it's own.

I really appreciated the puzzle minigames like Excavation and Scrying in Greymoor. Boss fight mechanics should be similar in that it takes skill or knowledge to master, not just following a cookie-cutter build from Alcast, laying down 6 DoTs and spamming Force Pulse on every final boss...

--Frostvault, Castle Thorn, etc--I enjoy those fights. But "NEED MAX DPS" people needing to always speed-complete the dungeons to prove their dps-peeners are big, kinda ruins it. Most players I pug with just skip the mobs and burn bosses.


TL;DR
A dps drop could be a good thing, forcing players to follow mechanics more, and adjusting the difficulty of dps-burn type bosses otherwise. This makes the game more challenging and closes the gap between low and high ping players (not something we can choose to have).

FinrodMacBeorn

tmbrinks wrote: »

The change of the soft cap to 1020 is a 20-30% nerf in the total amount of XP you need to earn to get to a specific CP level.

The changes to the stars means that 1100-1200 CP is enough to be fully specced for your role.

It depends on how interpret "fully specced". For a pve mag DD, vertical progression in 6.3.2 goes to roughly 1800 cp if you choose all useful blue passives and only 4 actives. For progress groups, horizontal progression even starts later, as the ability to change actives between trash and bosses on the fly will lead to better scores.

The nerf of needed XP is only 20% (at cp 1400+) - so welcome to the grind.

For me, it all depends on the viability of cp 1200-1400, where most of my gaming buddies are located, for vet trials and vet DLCs. We play a lot since beta, but never have intentionally grinded, and we won't do it in the future. Life is too short for such shenanigans.

Olupajmibanan

FinrodMacBeorn wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

The change of the soft cap to 1020 is a 20-30% nerf in the total amount of XP you need to earn to get to a specific CP level.

The changes to the stars means that 1100-1200 CP is enough to be fully specced for your role.

It depends on how interpret "fully specced". For a pve mag DD, vertical progression in 6.3.2 goes to roughly 1800 cp if you choose all useful blue passives and only 4 actives. For progress groups, horizontal progression even starts later, as the ability to change actives between trash and bosses on the fly will lead to better scores.

The nerf of needed XP is only 20% (at cp 1400+) - so welcome to the grind.

For me, it all depends on the viability of cp 1200-1400, where most of my gaming buddies are located, for vet trials and vet DLCs. We play a lot since beta, but never have intentionally grinded, and we won't do it in the future. Life is too short for such shenanigans.

How did you come to 1800?

200 for actives - DPS
170 passives - DPS
(40 crit CP
40 magicka CP
20 penetration - no more needed since 7light is the new meta
40 increased magical status effects chance
30 spell damage passive)
130 mitigation
(10 healing taken
40 non-player mitigation
40 magic mitigation
40 physical mitigation)

That's 1500 total. Only healing done CP, healing taken CP, stamina CP, martial status effects chance CP and weapon damage passive CP are missing at this point, which are all mostly useless for a magDD.

You need 1800 only if you want to truly min-max and boost damage of your Barbed Trap. That's not what majority of players need, the difference will be so freaking small that only the pushiest score pushers will feel the difference.

sjean73

please remove all slottable from the crafting...
this makes no senses having to swap them each time we want to assasinate, loot a chest, harvest a node, fish, open a stolen box, deconstructing stuff etc

those are not game breaking

sjean73

on live servers i always spent points into spell shield and armor focus... to get around 4.5k spell resist and 2.5k physical resist ... maximum reachable was 5k per stats... but now with the new system, "ironclad" in the fitness constallation at max you are getting 1731 armor, 1.7k and worst its slottable that means i am loosing a slot for something and i can't even get close to the numbers before (((

please raise the cap to 5k like it is on the current system

ApostateHobo

The rate at which we gain cp needs to be adjusted even more because at the new rate it's still going to be a huge grind to get to whatever number is necessary to be maxxed out in effectiveness for our role. Nobody wants to grind for a year or more just to get back to doing what we've been doing on live. If we wanted to grind all day we'd go play something like bdo not eso.

MudcrabAttack

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

FinrodMacBeorn wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

The change of the soft cap to 1020 is a 20-30% nerf in the total amount of XP you need to earn to get to a specific CP level.

The changes to the stars means that 1100-1200 CP is enough to be fully specced for your role.

It depends on how interpret "fully specced". For a pve mag DD, vertical progression in 6.3.2 goes to roughly 1800 cp if you choose all useful blue passives and only 4 actives. For progress groups, horizontal progression even starts later, as the ability to change actives between trash and bosses on the fly will lead to better scores.

The nerf of needed XP is only 20% (at cp 1400+) - so welcome to the grind.

For me, it all depends on the viability of cp 1200-1400, where most of my gaming buddies are located, for vet trials and vet DLCs. We play a lot since beta, but never have intentionally grinded, and we won't do it in the future. Life is too short for such shenanigans.

How did you come to 1800?

200 for actives - DPS
170 passives - DPS
(40 crit CP
40 magicka CP
20 penetration - no more needed since 7light is the new meta
40 increased magical status effects chance
30 spell damage passive)
130 mitigation
(10 healing taken
40 non-player mitigation
40 magic mitigation
40 physical mitigation)

That's 1500 total. Only healing done CP, healing taken CP, stamina CP, martial status effects chance CP and weapon damage passive CP are missing at this point, which are all mostly useless for a magDD.

You need 1800 only if you want to truly min-max and boost damage of your Barbed Trap. That's not what majority of players need, the difference will be so freaking small that only the pushiest score pushers will feel the difference.

There's probably some overthinking happening on the amount of mitigation needed for damage dealers. A few years ago, with 500-600 CP, DDs would enter vet DLC with little over 15k health while relying on ebon to lift them up to 17k.

FinrodMacBeorn

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

FinrodMacBeorn wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

The change of the soft cap to 1020 is a 20-30% nerf in the total amount of XP you need to earn to get to a specific CP level.

The changes to the stars means that 1100-1200 CP is enough to be fully specced for your role.

It depends on how interpret "fully specced". For a pve mag DD, vertical progression in 6.3.2 goes to roughly 1800 cp if you choose all useful blue passives and only 4 actives. For progress groups, horizontal progression even starts later, as the ability to change actives between trash and bosses on the fly will lead to better scores.

The nerf of needed XP is only 20% (at cp 1400+) - so welcome to the grind.

For me, it all depends on the viability of cp 1200-1400, where most of my gaming buddies are located, for vet trials and vet DLCs. We play a lot since beta, but never have intentionally grinded, and we won't do it in the future. Life is too short for such shenanigans.

How did you come to 1800?

...

That's 1500 total. Only healing done CP, healing taken CP, stamina CP, martial status effects chance CP and weapon damage passive CP are missing at this point, which are all mostly useless for a magDD.

You need 1800 only if you want to truly min-max and boost damage of your Barbed Trap. That's not what majority of players need, the difference will be so freaking small that only the pushiest score pushers will feel the difference.

II can't check the details currently (and it was more like 1780 rounded to 1800), but I have looked at it from the viewpoint of a mag DD going into vMA or vVH where the reduction of incoming damage is important too. I even didn't choose the + max stamina passive which also would be useful in that content. So, it's still vertical progression for pve mag DDs until about 1800 cp as the solo arenas definitely are pve content.

On the weekend, I plan to compare vMA on life (where 810 cp is max to be spent) with vMA on pts with 1200 cp which is claimed to be sufficient. So let's see ...

tmbrinks

Artanisul wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

I can't test anything on PTS, so I have a question for the PvP players who have been on.

How much power advantage does a 1600 cp have over a 1200 for instance? I know you have to slot 4 passives, but aren't there some you always get? If so, does that extra CP makes a huge difference? Even if it is small margins like 2% here and 3% there, you add a few of them up and it makes all the difference in PvP.

I would bet when all the number crunching gets done the TOTAL difference between 1200 CP and 1600 CP is less than 3% combined... and less than 5% when compared with somebody at max CP.

Player skill is and still will be much, much more important than your CP.

You cant fill all the passives and all the slottable stars at 1200. so adding 1% per CP is going to add more than you are saying.

In other words, you would loose the bet you just made. There will be a difference in PvE content and a much larger one in PvP stuff because you can get tankier and add more damage per CP you have over your enemy

They did not solve the problems, they just moved them around a bit.

I must say, for the content I do, this new system won't change my day. I only go near the PVP land for the stamina heal lol.
I just like to keep all the facts clear. We loose power after this goes live. Dungeon crawlers will be affected negatively. I really don't see a positive in this at all. Casual play won't take the hit like Vet content.

You think you're going to gain 1% PER CP? You will be able to fill pretty much every relevant, role specific passive in the 1200 CP range.

Stuff above that is for extra mitigation (which the importance is reduced because of increase health and reduced monster damage), extra "off-stats" like extra stamina or healing received/done, etc...

Also: You can't get all the passives on live... you already went without much of the mitigation and almost nobody ran the bonus healing received on live...

So, now you have the choice to put some time in and get more CP so you can get those off-stats (that you can't use now, even if you are over the cap) and you "can't see any positives"?

(also, it's lose, loose is the opposite of tight, I know the English language is dumb)

EDIT: Yes, we will lose power. That is one of the points. It's lowering the importance of CP on the game as a whole. Giving players with less CP more power, and taking some (a little) away from the top, while giving back a sense of some progression. DPS is insane, making much of the "end-game" content irrelevant and simple to clear. So, there is a correction happening along with this change to bring down the DPS levels some. There's nothing wrong with that... except some people's egos might be hurt because their video game numbers are smaller (or bigger) than what they were before

QuinnTheWolf

the recent changes in 6.3.2 suck ALOT

it was already hard to gain good dps with the crit being nerfed and all
but now? even less power all around! and crit got yet another backstab...

what are you doing.... the game gets less enjoyable, i hope 6.3.3 will revert these horrible changes in a way your goal gets achieved wilst not losing the power

for example:
youve reduced star tiers to 4 and 2, weakening the star entirely, but instead of removing that tier entirely making the maxed out star weaker, make it so you split the 5th tier up in 4
the crit passive adds 160 crit rating per tier, instead of removing 1 tier entirely divide the 5th tier (160 crit rating) split 160 in 4 wich is 40, then change 160 to 200, so each stage adds 200 crit rating

do this for all passives.

passives that need this even more are battle mastery and flawless ritual, you all think they were so op, truth be told they were not, they were good but not that good, they did help in spreading debuffs and that made them quite good

now at max its a 60% increase to apply a magickal/martial status effect, wich is very bad...
since it has 2 tiers, make it so each tier adds 75% so that the total is 150% again

why all this? you wanted to make it eazier for lower cp leveled players to get their stars
but you fail to realize that this update already nerfed dps to oblivion to the point vet content, to be more specefic trials and their vet achievements are pretty much impossible now

think about the huge damage youre inflicting on the general dps needed

either make vet content eazier or revert some of those horrible changes (im speceficaly staring at and barely holding myself togeter and not exploding in ragequitting hate at the reduced crit rates of armor and also the cp star cuts that have clearly seen the careless and reckless we-dont-care eat the low dps treatment)

ill most likely get some players screaming at me and probaly going after me for blood
but everything is worth the pain to undo the pain me and my friends will suffer when the update hits
besides, i can just ignore them by not opening their notifications :shrugs:

code65536

Playing around with the green points, I feel like the new CP system is a big nerf to new players.

For example, Inspiration Boost. Leveling a craft to 50 is a pretty big deal for new players. On Live, they need to spend just 10 points in the first green constellation to unlock a 30% Inspiration boost. On PTS, they need to spend 20 points just to reach the star, and then another 45 points to get the star up to 30%.

• Live: 30% inspiration boost available at CP 30
• PTS: 30% inspiration boost available at CP 195

Or look at Master Gatherer. On Live, spending 75 points anywhere in the second green constellation will unlock a 50% gathering speed increase. On PTS, you need to spend 135 points just to reach the star, and then another 75 points to get the star up to 50%.

• Live: 50% gathering speed available at CP 225
• PTS: 50% gathering speed available at CP 630

The three most popular green perks on Live for a new player are Inspiration Boost, Master Gatherer, and Treasure Hunter. To reach all three, players need to spend 30, 75, and 75 points in the green constellations. On PTS, unlocking all 3 and getting them to the same potency as their Live counterparts will cost 310 CP spent in green.

• Live: All three available to players at CP 540
• PTS: All three available to players at CP 930

As someone who is way over the CP cap (I'm over 1700 CP on PC/NA and almost 1500 CP on PC/EU), being able to use all that previously unusable CP means that I'm in the segment of the player population that's going to come out ahead--rich getting richer and all that jazz. But for someone who's new? They're getting screwed. Hard.

Rungar

code65536 wrote: »

Playing around with the green points, I feel like the new CP system is a big nerf to new players.

For example, Inspiration Boost. Leveling a craft to 50 is a pretty big deal for new players. On Live, they need to spend just 10 points in the first green constellation to unlock a 30% Inspiration boost. On PTS, they need to spend 20 points just to reach the star, and then another 45 points to get the star up to 30%.

• Live: 30% inspiration boost available at CP 30
• PTS: 30% inspiration boost available at CP 195

Or look at Master Gatherer. On Live, spending 75 points anywhere in the second green constellation will unlock a 50% gathering speed increase. On PTS, you need to spend 135 points just to reach the star, and then another 75 points to get the star up to 50%.

• Live: 50% gathering speed available at CP 225
• PTS: 30% inspiration boost available at CP 630

The three most popular green perks on Live for a new player are Inspiration Boost, Master Gatherer, and Treasure Hunter. To reach all three, players need to spend 30, 75, and 75 points in the green constellations. On PTS, unlocking all 3 and getting them to the same potency as their Live counterparts will cost 310 CP spent in green.

• Live: All three available to players at CP 540
• PTS: All three available to players at CP 930

As someone who is way over the CP cap (I'm over 1700 CP on PC/NA and almost 1500 CP on PC/EU), being able to use all that previously unusable CP means that I'm in the segment of the player population that's going to come out ahead--rich getting richer and all that jazz. But for someone who's new? They're getting screwed. Hard.

im not saying its not a big change but how will anyone new know the difference?

code65536

Rungar wrote: »

im not saying its not a big change but how will anyone new know the difference?

Say you have a kinda new-ish player with 400 CP. They probably have Master Gatherer already on Live. Once PTS lands, they'll discover that they've lost it and can't get it back until they gain a few hundred more CP. Yea, I'd say that they'll notice. For a truly new player who has never experienced CP 1.x, yea, they wouldn't know the difference. But if the CP levels of the people that I need when I do random battlegrounds or dungeons are any indication, I'd say there's a pretty significant part of the player base that's in the 200-600 CP range, and they'll definitely feel like they've lost something.

silvereyes

code65536 wrote: »

For example, Inspiration Boost. Leveling a craft to 50 is a pretty big deal for new players. On Live, they need to spend just 10 points in the first green constellation to unlock a 30% Inspiration boost. On PTS, they need to spend 20 points just to reach the star, and then another 45 points to get the star up to 30%.

• Live: 30% inspiration boost available at CP 30
• PTS: 30% inspiration boost available at CP 195

This is not accurate. The CP inspiration boost on live is only 20%, and it unlocks at CP 90, not CP 30. On PTS, one can start getting a 10% inspiration boost at CP 105, and 20% at CP 150. The cost is certainly higher just for that one bonus, but not ridiculously so.

One could argue that having inspiration max out at +30% (or +40% with ESO+) is actually better for new players than the current max on live of +20% (+30% with ESO+), assuming they want to invest the points and then power level their trade crafts.

code65536 wrote: »

Or look at Master Gatherer. On Live, spending 75 points anywhere in the second green constellation will unlock a 50% gathering speed increase. On PTS, you need to spend 135 points just to reach the star, and then another 75 points to get the star up to 50%.

• Live: 50% gathering speed available at CP 225
• PTS: 50% gathering speed available at CP 630

This is not accurate. If targeting Master Gatherer, specifically, you can max it out at CP 474 on PTS by going up the left side, starting at Fleet Phantom.

code65536 wrote: »

The three most popular green perks on Live for a new player are Inspiration Boost, Master Gatherer, and Treasure Hunter. To reach all three, players need to spend 30, 75, and 75 points in the green constellations. On PTS, unlocking all 3 and getting them to the same potency as their Live counterparts will cost 310 CP spent in green.

• Live: All three available to players at CP 540
• PTS: All three available to players at CP 930

Except you don't need all three. Inspiration boost is useless once your craft skills are maxed, or while not deconstructing. If you want just Master Gatherer and Treasure Hunter, you can do that at CP 600 on PTS.

The real problem for new players, IMO, is the lack of a clear line from inspiration boost to Master Gatherer. Meticulous Disassembly is a perk for high-CP master crafters, so its location in the middle of the tree makes no sense. It would be better if something with low jump points was put in its place, like Plentiful Harvest. That would give players as low as CP 150 a way to unlock the first bonuses in Inspiration Boost, Master Gatherer and Plentiful Harvest, which is great for an aspiring crafter.

code65536 wrote: »

But for someone who's new? They're getting screwed. Hard.

This is making the assumption that the goal of a new player is going to be crafting and farming. If that is the case, yes, they will have a much harder time, especially if they want Plentiful Harvest too.

However, there is a lot of other stuff for new players on PTS that I think that the masses will like more.

• Steeds Blessing: up to +20% out of combat movement speed, with no jump points
• Lots of options for sneaky, sneaky players, like Fleet Phantom and Sustaining Shadows
• Way more raw base stats for free, making them more powerful
• Faster leveling to gear cap
• Always-on +30% mount speed after unlocking Alliance War rank 3, which can be done with just the intro quest during a double AP event if your alliance has some bonuses.

Universe

I would be happy if ZOS will return to the drawing board and delay the Champion System 2.0 until Update 30(June 2021) at the least.
There are far too many issues and 3 weeks isn't enough time to improve the situation.

code65536

silvereyes wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

For example, Inspiration Boost. Leveling a craft to 50 is a pretty big deal for new players. On Live, they need to spend just 10 points in the first green constellation to unlock a 30% Inspiration boost. On PTS, they need to spend 20 points just to reach the star, and then another 45 points to get the star up to 30%.

• Live: 30% inspiration boost available at CP 30
• PTS: 30% inspiration boost available at CP 195

This is not accurate. The CP inspiration boost on live is only 20%, and it unlocks at CP 90, not CP 30. On PTS, one can start getting a 10% inspiration boost at CP 105, and 20% at CP 150. The cost is certainly higher just for that one bonus, but not ridiculously so.

One could argue that having inspiration max out at +30% (or +40% with ESO+) is actually better for new players than the current max on live of +20% (+30% with ESO+), assuming they want to invest the points and then power level their trade crafts.

code65536 wrote: »

Or look at Master Gatherer. On Live, spending 75 points anywhere in the second green constellation will unlock a 50% gathering speed increase. On PTS, you need to spend 135 points just to reach the star, and then another 75 points to get the star up to 50%.

• Live: 50% gathering speed available at CP 225
• PTS: 50% gathering speed available at CP 630

This is not accurate. If targeting Master Gatherer, specifically, you can max it out at CP 474 on PTS by going up the left side, starting at Fleet Phantom.

code65536 wrote: »

The three most popular green perks on Live for a new player are Inspiration Boost, Master Gatherer, and Treasure Hunter. To reach all three, players need to spend 30, 75, and 75 points in the green constellations. On PTS, unlocking all 3 and getting them to the same potency as their Live counterparts will cost 310 CP spent in green.

• Live: All three available to players at CP 540
• PTS: All three available to players at CP 930

Except you don't need all three. Inspiration boost is useless once your craft skills are maxed, or while not deconstructing. If you want just Master Gatherer and Treasure Hunter, you can do that at CP 600 on PTS.

The real problem for new players, IMO, is the lack of a clear line from inspiration boost to Master Gatherer. Meticulous Disassembly is a perk for high-CP master crafters, so its location in the middle of the tree makes no sense. It would be better if something with low jump points was put in its place, like Plentiful Harvest. That would give players as low as CP 150 a way to unlock the first bonuses in Inspiration Boost, Master Gatherer and Plentiful Harvest, which is great for an aspiring crafter.

code65536 wrote: »

But for someone who's new? They're getting screwed. Hard.

This is making the assumption that the goal of a new player is going to be crafting and farming. If that is the case, yes, they will have a much harder time, especially if they want Plentiful Harvest too.

However, there is a lot of other stuff for new players on PTS that I think that the masses will like more.

• Steeds Blessing: up to +20% out of combat movement speed, with no jump points
• Lots of options for sneaky, sneaky players, like Fleet Phantom and Sustaining Shadows
• Way more raw base stats for free, making them more powerful
• Faster leveling to gear cap
• Always-on +30% mount speed after unlocking Alliance War rank 3, which can be done with just the intro quest during a double XP event if your alliance has some bonuses.

Oops. I stand corrected. The Live server was down and I was playing on PTS, so the Live details were what I drew from my memory, which is apparently quite flawed.

I do agree, though, that Meticulous Disassembly being a single 100-point chunk right in the middle is a problem and that some of these issues could be alleviated by either moving it, or by breaking it down to smaller chunks. The deconstruction skill passives are divided into three tiers, after all.

Xebov

Universe wrote: »

I would be happy if ZOS will return to the drawing board and delay the Champion System 2.0 until Update 30(June 2021) at the least.
There are far too many issues and 3 weeks isn't enough time to improve the situation.

I think they just have to decide what they want. They created a system that required a moderate to fast leveling speed and they gave it slow to super slow level speed.

They created a system that is half vertical and half horizontal progression.
Naturally players will want to fill their vertical part first. To do this they need ~2.5 -3.0 times the XP they require with the old system. So maxing out the potential takes longer.
The horizontal progression will likely see investment after vertical is complete. At that point however players will need even more XP to use the choice feature of the new system. Most will never reach it at this point.

The main turn down on the system will be the pure time requirement and the feeling that you dont progress unless you farm explicitely and even then it will be slow.

Besides some adjustments to stars what they need to do is this: CP1-CP1800 should take as long as CP1-CP810 currently takes. Thats a reasonable amount of time, especially when considering that enw players have to catch up and that progression inside the stars is now linear instead of diminishing returns. CP1801-CP3600 should take twice as long as CP1-CP1800. This would mean a reasonable amount of work is needed, but there is also progress to make use of the horizontal progression and the choice system.

albumoculus

QuinnTheWolf wrote: »

the recent changes in 6.3.2 suck ALOT

it was already hard to gain good dps with the crit being nerfed and all
but now? even less power all around! and crit got yet another backstab...

what are you doing.... the game gets less enjoyable, i hope 6.3.3 will revert these horrible changes in a way your goal gets achieved wilst not losing the power

for example:
youve reduced star tiers to 4 and 2, weakening the star entirely, but instead of removing that tier entirely making the maxed out star weaker, make it so you split the 5th tier up in 4
the crit passive adds 160 crit rating per tier, instead of removing 1 tier entirely divide the 5th tier (160 crit rating) split 160 in 4 wich is 40, then change 160 to 200, so each stage adds 200 crit rating

do this for all passives.

passives that need this even more are battle mastery and flawless ritual, you all think they were so op, truth be told they were not, they were good but not that good, they did help in spreading debuffs and that made them quite good

now at max its a 60% increase to apply a magickal/martial status effect, wich is very bad...
since it has 2 tiers, make it so each tier adds 75% so that the total is 150% again

why all this? you wanted to make it eazier for lower cp leveled players to get their stars
but you fail to realize that this update already nerfed dps to oblivion to the point vet content, to be more specefic trials and their vet achievements are pretty much impossible now

think about the huge damage youre inflicting on the general dps needed

either make vet content eazier or revert some of those horrible changes (im speceficaly staring at and barely holding myself togeter and not exploding in ragequitting hate at the reduced crit rates of armor and also the cp star cuts that have clearly seen the careless and reckless we-dont-care eat the low dps treatment)

ill most likely get some players screaming at me and probaly going after me for blood
but everything is worth the pain to undo the pain me and my friends will suffer when the update hits
besides, i can just ignore them by not opening their notifications :shrugs:

Agreed, out of the stars they should've reduced it was not battle mastery and flawless ritual, stares intensly at strategic reserve that somehow maintained an absurd amount of its power. 150% to status effect could really have fixed the issues with DPS players complaining about reduced damage, espeically if it increases the chances to apply concussion/burned for DPS players and the chilled status effect for tanks using a frost staff. Forst staffs continues to be undermined as far as I know, and the benefit of being able to procc the chilled status effect for tanks would've made frost staff's more approachable, except for the additional armor bonus there isn't a reason to slot it.

Mix

Please remove the need to invest in one star to unlock another! None of us want to "waste" cp in a skill we don't need for our playstyle or have no room to slot for current build when we don't have CP to spare!

Every time I go to play in the new CP trees I get frustrated by those damn required stars. Don't want or don't need and wasting points to go past it to something I do want or need. You also managed to (for my playstyle) alternate a lot of stars so every 2nd or 3rd on a chain is something I don't want lol.

All the talk about how much XP needed per new CP is also starting to scare me.

rrimöykk

I know providing feedback doesn't do anything as previous pts discussions have showed but have you really thought this cp change through?

I love the basic idea behind it and it really was needed BUT 3600 being the max? I'm quite certain this will alienate new players from this game. When you tell a new player it will take way over a year to reach max levels, will they start this game? No one wants that grind.

I really wish you adjust the numbers. Otherwise the new changes look interesting and can't wait to test them on live but the amount of xp needed I just too much.

Lerozain

The exp required per point for CP needs to be literally half of what it currently is post-810. I've played for thousands of hours, and now I'm supposed to play for thousands more to reach this new cap? It's insulting and discouraging.

20-30%? exp reduction per point is nowhere near enough when you consider there's more than 4 TIMES the total number of points available now, and far more points are required for a comparable setup than before.

Having so many crafting slottables makes literally 0 sense. Anything not combat related should be a passive and active constantly once unlocked. Why should I have to switch my CP bar around to open chests quicker, or to harvest more from nodes, or any number of other things? Micro-managing my CP bar for overland shenanigans is more like gamer hell than an enjoyable experience.

Gating certain perks behind other unwanted/unneeded perks should be reconsidered.

LOWER the exp required per point, this is a game not an exercise in masochism.

p00tx

If you're not going to retroactively adjust our CP (which is another sore point)and are going to pile all relevant skills into the blue tree, I don't think the even split is a good idea. I can't speak for the entire raiding community, but I have a feeling most would agree with me when I say the green tree is almost entirely useless to us. It's nice, but it's just extra fluff that doesn't really impact my game play. On the flipside of that, someone from the roleplay community or the crafter merchants probably don't have much interest in carefully balancing their crit/stat pool/healing output/etc in the blue tree. I still don't even really understand the point of the red tree yet. If you want to truly give players the ability to explore the game on their own terms and fully customize thier game play, the CP pool needs to be unlocked so we can allocate our points freely. The forced split worked well with the previous system, but not so much with this one.Right now, as it stands, I have 1/3rd of my cp sitting unused, which is really disappointing and frustrating.