PTS Update 29 - Feedback Thread for Champion Point System

Contraptions

Please unnerf Master Gatherer and increase the 50% bonus gathering speed back to 100% please.

Please also consider letting all the stars in the green tree be passives, since they are all QOL changes that are unrelated to combat balance. Very annoying to have to swap green stars for specific activities over and over.

Why is there a star for Blade of Woe? You do realize it's DLC content only right?

Sju

Either I'm not doing something right, which I doubt, or Meticulous disassembly is not working.

I tested about 5 times assigned, 5 without, and I am getting far less powerful materials from refining jewelry mats with it assigned. But there seems to be a bigger issue with it- Even though it shouldn't affect it (supposedly?) it is affecting deconstructing gold jewelry, and it's worse, no powerful mats from decon with MD assigned, I am getting 3 single plat ounces from gold jewelry, nothing else.

I don't even know why we have this, as others mentioned, it is nearly a copy/paste of the currently available passives.

NobleX35

Here are my thoughts on the new cp system after doing some testing last night. First, I'd like to say that I think this new system has a lot of potential, but also needs a lot of work.

1. A more reasonable "softcap" is an absolute necessity. Maybe 1.2k CP, since that is the number decided for the new leveling curve? The system was advertised as having an "end point" for vertical progression; however, that end point is 3k+ CP. While it would take less CP to optimize your specific role in PvE, to be optimized in PvP could easily require 3k+ CP. These numbers are completely unacceptable and it is unreasonable to expect players to want to engage in such a system.

2. Convert all passives into slotable perks. I think the idea of slotable perks to complete our builds is a truly interesting approach to the CP system. However, the current proposal contains both slotable and passive perks, which derails from the concept of slotable perks. The problem with passive perks is that there is no downside to going form, essentially making them a necessity to be fully optimized. The problem is compounded by the fact that there are so many passives. I would personally rather all perks be required to be slotted in order to obtain their respective benefits. This would help create a more reasonable softcap, as well as we give the dev's greater control over the difference between vertical and horizontal progression (a major component for the proposed change in the first place).

3. Double the number of slots to 8 per constellation (potentially up to 10 per constellation). This suggestion goes hand-in-hand with my previous point. I think making all the perks required to be slotted would be more interesting, but we would need additional slots to allow for unique build composition's. I think that the number of slots should still be limited so that players can't slot everything, but would have enough slots available to come up with some interesting combinations (especially considering how many additional perks there are now).

4. I am not a fan of the hyper specialization between single target, dot, and aoe damage/mitigation/healing (though point 3 could alleviate some of this problem). I think the older system of direct damage and dot damage made more sense and was a little more fair. For example, NB’s benefit significantly from the new system because they can easily ignore the dot and aoe percent damage modifiers, thus giving them more options to specialize their other 3 slots. DK’s on the other hand will need/want all three 10% damage perks, thus leaving them with only 1 additional slot for whatever else. (I’m just using these two classes as examples since they have the greatest discrepancy). This is especially noticeable when considering the percentage modifier perks all max out at 10% each. These numbers easily provide the greatest damage potential over any other option. Why go for 1400 mag/stam or 150 wd/sd, when you get at least double (if not triple or more) the output with the 10% star. Now, obviously these don’t effect healing, but the difference is so substantial it’s not even worth considering the other perks.

5. Sub trees seem kind of pointless in the current iteration. The passives in a sub tree could easily just be part of the normal tree. If sub trees functioned like set bonuses, where you invest points into the subtree and then slotted the main star to get all the benefits within the sub tree (obviously this would need substantial rebalancing), then sure...but the current system seems pointless.

7. Rework or remove the path’s. It’s kind of obnoxious to be forced to invest points into perks you dont want/won’t use just to reach the perks you do want/will use.

7. General numbers across the board need rebalancing (obviously). Some perks are significantly overperforming other perks, limiting actual choices.

8. This one's been touched on a lot, but it's because it is also kind of obvious. The UI is definitely too “busy.” Needs to be more streamlined and cleaner looking. The graphics look nice, and credit where credit is due. However, the background noise gets in the way of trying to put a build together.

9. Reimplement diminishing returns. I'm ~1450 CP, so this hopefully won't apply to me; however, it is worth mentioning. Many of the goals of the ESO dev team have been to make the game more user friendly to newer players to help grow the community. Diminishing returns helps curve the power gap between new and veteran players. Either make it so earlier points invested in a perk provide more of said perks bonus than later stages, or make each stage provide the same benefit with earlier stages being cheaper to purchase and later stages being more expensive.

Xairvaiss

I understand that this is only 2nd week of PTS cycle but I'm very worried with current state of things.

So much nerfs to dps that i see on cp. How we suppose to do GodSlayer with so low dps in 30 mins!? Few examples:
Thaumaturge currently at 50 points you get ~18% - for PTS it 10%
Elfborn currently at 50 points you get ~18% - for PTS Fighting Finesse it has 10%
Tried to parse with 810CP 21M dummy on PTS and damage drastically low.

Also the people that now have 900-1200CP will become "non high enders" due lack of bonuses that you can put passively. If now it take longer to reach 1400CP and after patch it will be easier why you not convert old cp to new cp basing on XP earned?

Hellmasker

Hm, I think I would prefer if they just bundle some of the passives together and make all stars "active" ones. So 1200cp would be enough to slot the 4 of each tree and everything afterwards would be just convenience to change on the fly, if necessary.

At least that way we wouldn't have to grind for all eternity to become viable again...

Alentarlixia

USSRTovarisch wrote: »

Tried to parse with 810CP 21M dummy on PTS and damage drastically low.

I'd like to quote the imperial calculator t3hasiangod:
"Can't do any accurate parse testing because pen is f***ed"

Vercingetorix

Two nodes caught my attention:
Fleet Phantom: This passive can be rendered useless if a player has negated the penalty altogether. Instead, it can be changed to “increase the movement speed while sneaking per stage” so that it still does the same thing you originally intended but also has value if a player has Dark Stalker for example.

Precision: Increase the value per stage to 178 up from 160 so that at max rank the player receives a whole number crit (4%), rather than a useless “3.65” since armor sets give whole number crit (3%) amounts now.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler
The positives:

• The new UI looks great,
• Some of the ideas for the stars and the slotting system in general is a really good move and makes for some potentially interesting builds and choices in the future (not really currently so much).
• Its great to see such a big change in a year where there would otherwise not really be too much end-game content.

Concerns about CP 2.0

Uncapped CP

• Uncapped CP leads to less meaningful choices in the CP system, Players will always want 4 slotted CP stars and ‘as many points’ in the passive system as possible. The choice comes only when choosing what 4 CP to slot rather than potentially balancing between which passives to put points into due to a cap.
  
• Additionally players now need to reach CP 2250 before being as effective as possible. (2250-3600 just allows for easier CP star swapping without respec). Without this amount of CP a player will simply be weaker than they could be.
  
• This is more of an issue for PVP as players need to be able to both heal and damage more so than in PVE where there is often a dedicated healer.
  
• No CP cap doesn’t allow for future ‘CP increases’ during DLC’s etc. This also means that players who are at low CP have an extremely difficult task to grind up enough XP to be competitive.

This leads onto the catch up system.
With the above comments it is now even more important for players to be able to catch up to a competitive level (2250 cp). Starting from 0 this is a huge undertaking. It was already difficult for players to reach 810 but to reach 2250 when the catch up system stops at 1200 is going to be even more difficult.

- The diminishing returns side of the CP system is basically not a thing any more. (more is always better up to a certain point). (see below too)
- The Blue tree feels too extensive. It feels like there are way too many passives and very narrow slottable's. The green tree feels like a good balance in contrast. (red is somewhere between the 2).

- Discussing further, I'd almost rather the passives were dropped from the first implementation, just give us the slot choices and make the benefit of more CP saving money by not needing to respec to do different content.


I would also agree with the diminishing returns part of this post, it would help somewhat although I still think no cap is a dangerous idea for the game in its current state.
The ideas in the OP https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/560109/introducing-cp-1-5-an-alternative-suggestion-to-the-cp-2-0-revamp

NobleX35

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Concerns about CP 2.0

[*] Additionally players now need to reach CP 2250 before being as effective as possible. (2250-3600 just allows for easier CP star swapping without respec). Without this amount of CP a player will simply be weaker than they could be.

This leads onto the catch up system.
With the above comments it is now even more important for players to be able to catch up to a competitive level (2250 cp). Starting from 0 this is a huge undertaking. It was already difficult for players to reach 810 but to reach 2250 when the catch up system stops at 1200 is going to be even more difficult.

I’m not sure where or how you’re coming up with 2250. I easily needed at least 3100 cp total to get all the passives and 4 slotables for the blue constellation.

You need way more than 2250 to max everything out.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

NobleX35 wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Concerns about CP 2.0

[*] Additionally players now need to reach CP 2250 before being as effective as possible. (2250-3600 just allows for easier CP star swapping without respec). Without this amount of CP a player will simply be weaker than they could be.

This leads onto the catch up system.
With the above comments it is now even more important for players to be able to catch up to a competitive level (2250 cp). Starting from 0 this is a huge undertaking. It was already difficult for players to reach 810 but to reach 2250 when the catch up system stops at 1200 is going to be even more difficult.

I’m not sure where or how you’re coming up with 2250. I easily needed at least 3100 cp total to get all the passives and 4 slotables for the blue constellation.

You need way more than 2250 to max everything out.

The number itself makes little difference to the overall statement, my figures could be slightly wrong but I guess a higher max for your numbers makes the point even more of an issue

kalunte

top change, instead of having a max lvl at 810 (which is already ridiculously high and makes newest player leave the game) you rise it to 3600... guess the guy who had the idea is a genius, like always.

+ you can swap it whenever you're not in combat so, regardless of all the passive that cant be gathered without some 3k CP, you will also lose because higher CP will give more flexibility on top of base raw power.

what was the point of this CP overhaul again? i must be missing something...

Zer0oo

Why do we still not have a fast swap for cp points? (maybe even without paying the 3k gold)

Why?:
Will healers, tanks ,dds in pvp and pve have the same cp setup? Assuming they are not totally maxed out: No? See the problem

spacefracking

Zer0oo wrote: »

Why do we still not have a fast swap for cp points? (maybe even without paying the 3k gold)

Why?:
Will healers, tanks ,dds in pvp and pve have the same cp setup? Assuming they are not totally maxed out: No? See the problem

This patch is going to make Markarth look like a triumph of engineering. Nerfing peoples' ability to do the same content they did before patch is going to alienate a lot of the player base and hurt this game as a whole. This change is a disaster and I am baffled as to why they would show a completely broken overhaul of the entire game with only a month til launch. It's like Cyberpunk 2077's launch, except they have a working game to start with.

spacefracking

spacefracking wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Why do we still not have a fast swap for cp points? (maybe even without paying the 3k gold)

Why?:
Will healers, tanks ,dds in pvp and pve have the same cp setup? Assuming they are not totally maxed out: No? See the problem

This patch is going to make Markarth look like a triumph of engineering. Nerfing peoples' ability to do the same content they did before patch is going to alienate a lot of the player base and hurt this game as a whole. This change is a disaster and I am baffled as to why they would show a completely broken overhaul of the entire game with only a month til launch. It's like Cyberpunk 2077's launch, except they have a working game to start with.

I responded to the wrong comment. lol. anyway, can't delete or edit so.....

VaxtinTheWolf

spacefracking wrote: »

I responded to the wrong comment. lol. anyway, can't delete or edit so.....

When you make a mistake like that, you can reload the page so that the Edit Gear Icon shows up next to the Post #.

Tigertron

Sju wrote: »

Either I'm not doing something right, which I doubt, or Meticulous disassembly is not working.

I tested about 5 times assigned, 5 without, and I am getting far less powerful materials from refining jewelry mats with it assigned. But there seems to be a bigger issue with it- Even though it shouldn't affect it (supposedly?) it is affecting deconstructing gold jewelry, and it's worse, no powerful mats from decon with MD assigned, I am getting 3 single plat ounces from gold jewelry, nothing else.

I don't even know why we have this, as others mentioned, it is nearly a copy/paste of the currently available passives.

I second this. I tested it and it does nothing or very little as far as I can tell. I may have bought up all the raw mat on PTS testing it out but for the CP cost it is not worth it if it’s giving a 0.01% increase.

Kurat

spacefracking wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Why do we still not have a fast swap for cp points? (maybe even without paying the 3k gold)

Why?:
Will healers, tanks ,dds in pvp and pve have the same cp setup? Assuming they are not totally maxed out: No? See the problem

This patch is going to make Markarth look like a triumph of engineering. Nerfing peoples' ability to do the same content they did before patch is going to alienate a lot of the player base and hurt this game as a whole. This change is a disaster and I am baffled as to why they would show a completely broken overhaul of the entire game with only a month til launch. It's like Cyberpunk 2077's launch, except they have a working game to start with.

You will still be able to do the same content as currently, but may not necessarily able to burn everything to skip mechs, may need real tanks and healers for some content that currently dont require them etc. You just gotta adapt.

Raegwyr

Kurat wrote: »

spacefracking wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Why do we still not have a fast swap for cp points? (maybe even without paying the 3k gold)

Why?:
Will healers, tanks ,dds in pvp and pve have the same cp setup? Assuming they are not totally maxed out: No? See the problem

This patch is going to make Markarth look like a triumph of engineering. Nerfing peoples' ability to do the same content they did before patch is going to alienate a lot of the player base and hurt this game as a whole. This change is a disaster and I am baffled as to why they would show a completely broken overhaul of the entire game with only a month til launch. It's like Cyberpunk 2077's launch, except they have a working game to start with.

You will still be able to do the same content as currently, but may not necessarily able to burn everything to skip mechs, may need real tanks and healers for some content that currently dont require them etc. You just gotta adapt.

Don't think it is the true for many groups that are progressing DB or GS. Sure, groups that already have multiple gs might be fine but for ppl who are not 0.01% it will be a dissastear. I wonder if zos even consider how to adjust some fights with this new system. Last boss vKA HM is more then 300mil hp to beat (boss + add from first phase) and for many group is ridiculously long and unfun. How long it should take by zos standard to beat that guy, 15 minutes?

Hotdog_23

anadandy wrote: »

laufey wrote: »

I'm really not a fan of how the Craft tree is laid out. There are decent things tucked away behind high-cost but not very useful (or entirely unrelated) nodes, so you're essentially forced to drop CP into something pointless that you'll never slot just to unlock the things you actually want.

Completely agree. Why would my grand master crafter drop points into getting more inspiration just to get to Master Gatherer?

1000% yes, what a waste of CP's.

Universe

I'm happy that you finally changed the champion system,
it is a step in the right direction
Though not all is good, feedback below.

I tested it to some degree with 810 CPs template and found it easy to use and rewarding.
I couldn't test it with my higher CP Account because I play on PC EU mostly and there are no EU character copies yet.

*Would suggest to make one more sheet in Character Overview menu that provides all the names of the stars, points invested and their bonuses.
Similar to the Character sheet, but this menu will provide easy access to all champion points allocation information(though changing the champion points will require opening the Stars overview, same as it is now.).
This will simplify the process rather than forcing the player to open the Champion Overview and viewing each star.
Sometimes there is no reason to change anything, but only the urge to check current spent points.

*Would suggest to implement two new components which will appear on Screen when entering the Champion Overview:
1. Numbers of total stars and champion points currently in use out of the max number of stars and Champion points.
2. Live current Max number of possible stars to use with the amount of champion points available to the player(and necessary champion points).


I'm concerned that balancing the system in PVP may prove difficult unless more restrictions will be made on stars which give passive bonuses that don't require slotting.
Players with 810 CPs compared to players with 1K or 2K or more CPs may be at a major disadvantage.
Last thing anyone wants is the return of super OP players like before there was a CP cap in Champion system 1.0.
The excuse some players give: "play no CP campaign for more balanced gameplay" isn't valid, I want the game to be balanced in CP enabled campaign as well.
Also, PVE content, like Vet dungeons, trials and arenas may become too trivial if there will be a massive power creep due to unbalanced Champion system.
Furthermore, the power creep will increase the gap between new, mid-class and veteran players.
*This is why restricting the power of this system and wisely capping it is a MUST.

*I may update this post at a later date for more feedback.

Artanisul

They seriously need to change the paths to open up many of the stars. Stealthy stuff up one branch....general adventure/money/supply stuff up another...crafting up yet another. That's just the Green side.

It really is kind of hap hazard. Or just clue me into how it makes sense maybe? Intuative?

LadyDestiny

heaven13 wrote: »

There are some things that are showing in the CP trees that are also purchasable skills.

• Meticulous Disassembly (CP) vs Wood Extraction (purchasable woodworking passive) have the same exact wording (and none of the other crafting skills are included as CP options). Do they stack? Are crafting passives being moved to CP and skills just haven't been reworked yet?
• Rationer (CP) vs Connoisseur and Gourmand (purchasable provisioning passive). Again, do these things stack together or will the skill point versions be removed?
  • After testing, these 2 things do stack but ONLY if you eat a new food. **Tested using artaeum, ate new food after assigning the skill points - duration increased. Then added the CP to Rationer and added to my CP bar. Duration did not increase. Ate a new food again, duration increased. So if you switch your bar to this, yes, you can stack for very long lasting food but could be an expensive mistake if you eat without having Rationer assigned to your bar. On the other hand, you can put the node on the bar, eat, then remove it and the duration stays. This is probably not working as intended, if I had to guess.
• Spirit Mastery (CP) vs Master Ritualist (templar Restoring Light passive): the cp version is even better than the templar version - 33% faster vs 20% faster (with both skillpoints). Can these stack on templars for an even faster rez? If not, are there plans to adjust the templar passive to something else?
• Infamous (CP) vs Haggling (Thieves Guild purchasable passive).
  • These two do NOT stack. I purchased the 4 skills points in Haggling. A green item went from 100g to 110g. I then added the required CP to purchase Infamous and put it on the CP bar. My green item still was only worth 110g. I went and stole a new green item with Infamous on the bar when I looted the item and then headed back to an outlaw refuge. The new green item was still only worth 110g. Respecced and removed Haggling so I would only have Infamous on the CP bar. Green items dropped back to 100g. Went and stole a new item. Still only worth 100g. So maybe these two should stack but Infamous is bugged.

I was wondering this myself. Surely they are not removing the skill perks on crafting only to make you grind cp out to get them back? This would be so wrong if that happens.

DebaZapelo

I see a lot of complains here but.....

This CP 2.0 system is actually much better.
Let me explain why.

In the current CP system all tanks, DD or healers have almost the same CP distribution based on their role and primary stat.The difference is caused a bit by racial skills but mainly by class skills, armour sets and player skill.

Now with the new CP system build diversity will be introduced.

So you will have to choose what your main type of dmg will be, what kind of healer you will be ...... and so on
Remember that there will still be a limit of 1200 CP per constellation.

And
Yes a lot of content will be harder to complete even for people that have been playing this game for a long time.
Yes we will have to re-think group composition for group content.
Yes ignoring mechanics will be punished much more than now.
.......

To be honest as the things stand now it does not make sense
That after less than a year of playing this game I'm able to complete some vet dungeons solo with my tank
The PVP builds i see that have to face 20+ plus people to get killed
......

So the other hand people complain that content is too easy.
Well now that will change.

Do not be lazy and adapt to changes.

Also be honest and admit how many of you just copy pasted a build from someone on the internet.

lillybit

DebaZapelo wrote: »

I see a lot of complains here but.....

This CP 2.0 system is actually much better.
Let me explain why.

In the current CP system all tanks, DD or healers have almost the same CP distribution based on their role and primary stat.The difference is caused by a bit by racial skills but mainly by class skills, armour sets and player skill.

Now with the new CP system build diversity will be introduced.

So you will have to choose what your main type of dmg will be, what kind of healer you will be ...... and so on
Remember that there will still be a limit of 1200 CP per constellation.

And
Yes a lot of content will be harder to complete even for people that have been playing this game for a long time.
Yes we will have to re-think group composition for group content.
Yes ignoring mechanics will be punished much more than now.
.......

To be honest as the things stand now it does not make sense
That after less than a year of playing this game I'm able to complete some vet dungeons solo with my tank
The PVP builds i see that have to face 20+ plus people to get killed
......

So the other hand people complain that content is too easy.
Well now that will change.

Do not be lazy and adapt to changes.

Also be honest and admit how many of you just copy pasted a build from someone on the internet.

I don't think hardly anyone is saying it's all bad. Of course there are good things here. Most people are reasonable enough to not really care about things getting a bit harder but many are concerned that they won't be able to do things at all. People rightly don't want to be stopped doing content they are already doing. Saying to people they're just being lazy and not adjusting to changes helps no-one.

DebaZapelo

lillybit wrote: »

DebaZapelo wrote: »

I see a lot of complains here but.....

This CP 2.0 system is actually much better.
Let me explain why.

In the current CP system all tanks, DD or healers have almost the same CP distribution based on their role and primary stat.The difference is caused by a bit by racial skills but mainly by class skills, armour sets and player skill.

Now with the new CP system build diversity will be introduced.

So you will have to choose what your main type of dmg will be, what kind of healer you will be ...... and so on
Remember that there will still be a limit of 1200 CP per constellation.

And
Yes a lot of content will be harder to complete even for people that have been playing this game for a long time.
Yes we will have to re-think group composition for group content.
Yes ignoring mechanics will be punished much more than now.
.......

To be honest as the things stand now it does not make sense
That after less than a year of playing this game I'm able to complete some vet dungeons solo with my tank
The PVP builds i see that have to face 20+ plus people to get killed
......

So the other hand people complain that content is too easy.
Well now that will change.

Do not be lazy and adapt to changes.

Also be honest and admit how many of you just copy pasted a build from someone on the internet.

I don't think hardly anyone is saying it's all bad. Of course there are good things here. Most people are reasonable enough to not really care about things getting a bit harder but many are concerned that they won't be able to do things at all. People rightly don't want to be stopped doing content they are already doing. Saying to people they're just being lazy and not adjusting to changes helps no-one.

I never said people are saying it is all bad.
And yes a lot of people (not all) are just lazy/afraid that they will have to rethink their strategies.
I'm sure that in the end the right group will be able to finish the same content as before.
On the other hand the people that get carried along will be in trouble.

But let us see what future brings .... as I can see there is quite a few bugs still present in the CP 2.0 system

MaximusDecimus

I'm going to read the room and gather up everyone's key points. Most basic and fixable first, more complex and vague to the end.

UI
Basically yes the UI is very, very pretty. However it is extremely hard to process visually. After probably 20 minutes playing around it makes sense to use as a structure but the visual design is hard to see, hard to understand at first glance. Stars need to be brighter, the background dimmed slightly. The lines connecting stars, the webs, need to be brighter and more defined as well.

Okay now the other UI issue is the nested CP mini-trees. Purple? in a sea of blue stars? The mini trees need a better UI indicator symbol, sure keep the purple but give it a white outline or something. They in particular need to be well defined.

XP Gain
Basically everyone is concerned about the rate of XP gained and the lack of power a max level 810 will feel in the new system. This is amplified by the uncertainty of how much XP CP will require to gain. Give us the formula for XP gain in the new CP system so we know EXACTLY what this system entails so we can judge properly.

Vertical vs Horizontal Power and relative CP Strength
The final and hardest to solve problem is everyone's concern with the massive DPS loss seen on PTS. It seems like the promise of less straight CP power gain was broken because of all the passives. It looks like we need to double our CP to regain lost power. That's NO BUENO. I can tell you right now you will lose players if that's the case. This is compounded by the lack of clarity on XP per CP changes. The general consensus is this feels like an across the board nerf to anyone max CP who doesn't play this game like a Zealot. Granted this can't be tested until we have max CP test templates. Honestly even if it is a nerf then soften the blow and give everyone 2 months of enlightenment when the update drops. It just seems like this wasn't a full cooked idea, give us a few weeks on PTS with max CP toons and we'll finish baking it until its done.

ealdwin

I see plenty of concern from more experienced players (and rightfully so), but I keep coming back to thinking about new players or people trying to determine if they want to play ESO. If you were asked to explain the leveling system to them, it would be one of the more confusing parts of the game. Not confusing in a 'huh' way, but in a 'why?' way. As in, why is it like that.

First, you explain that new characters begin at level 1 and you get them up to 50. Simple. Not hard to understand. But wait! Then you enter 'Champion Points'. You need to earn 160 Champion Points to reach the gear cap so that you get gear at the max level. Ok, so CP sounds like just more levels. But 160 isn't that bad... WAIT! Currently, you won't be at your full level, until you've earned 810 CP. But good news! They're removing the cap, so you can earn 3600 CP. Don't worry, you only need somewhere above 2000 to reach your full mathematical power potential. Happy grinding!

That's the problem I can't wrap my head around. How do you explain this system to someone in a way that makes them think it makes sense or sounds fun? How does multiple tiers of ever progressing power potential entice someone to engage in the game in any manner more than casually? (Unless they like grinding)

There are some good ideas in the new CP system. There really are. But there are also changes that are off-putting, and the continuation of a system with a long (if maybe not as steep) vertical progression model is one of them. Especially when that progression is locked behind a path of requirements.

Firstmep

MaximusDecimus wrote: »

I'm going to read the room and gather up everyone's key points. Most basic and fixable first, more complex and vague to the end.

UI
Basically yes the UI is very, very pretty. However it is extremely hard to process visually. After probably 20 minutes playing around it makes sense to use as a structure but the visual design is hard to see, hard to understand at first glance. Stars need to be brighter, the background dimmed slightly. The lines connecting stars, the webs, need to be brighter and more defined as well.

Okay now the other UI issue is the nested CP mini-trees. Purple? in a sea of blue stars? The mini trees need a better UI indicator symbol, sure keep the purple but give it a white outline or something. They in particular need to be well defined.

XP Gain
Basically everyone is concerned about the rate of XP gained and the lack of power a max level 810 will feel in the new system. This is amplified by the uncertainty of how much XP CP will require to gain. Give us the formula for XP gain in the new CP system so we know EXACTLY what this system entails so we can judge properly.

Vertical vs Horizontal Power and relative CP Strength
The final and hardest to solve problem is everyone's concern with the massive DPS loss seen on PTS. It seems like the promise of less straight CP power gain was broken because of all the passives. It looks like we need to double our CP to regain lost power. That's NO BUENO. I can tell you right now you will lose players if that's the case. This is compounded by the lack of clarity on XP per CP changes. The general consensus is this feels like an across the board nerf to anyone max CP who doesn't play this game like a Zealot. Granted this can't be tested until we have max CP test templates. Honestly even if it is a nerf then soften the blow and give everyone 2 months of enlightenment when the update drops. It just seems like this wasn't a full cooked idea, give us a few weeks on PTS with max CP toons and we'll finish baking it until its done.

Penetration doesn't work properly on the pts, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions towards dps.
I more concerned with dps players with let's 1200 cp having to give up mitigation to be able to push out max dmg, while someine with double thay cp won't.
That's a clear power difference right there, and not a welcome one.

virtus753

MaximusDecimus wrote: »

Vertical vs Horizontal Power and relative CP Strength
The final and hardest to solve problem is everyone's concern with the massive DPS loss seen on PTS. It seems like the promise of less straight CP power gain was broken because of all the passives. It looks like we need to double our CP to regain lost power. That's NO BUENO. I can tell you right now you will lose players if that's the case. This is compounded by the lack of clarity on XP per CP changes. The general consensus is this feels like an across the board nerf to anyone max CP who doesn't play this game like a Zealot. Granted this can't be tested until we have max CP test templates. Honestly even if it is a nerf then soften the blow and give everyone 2 months of enlightenment when the update drops. It just seems like this wasn't a full cooked idea, give us a few weeks on PTS with max CP toons and we'll finish baking it until its done.

But no one has been able to test dps properly, so we have no way of judging whether the dps loss was “massive” or not, much less exactly how far we each have to go to make up for it. The closest we can get is paper calculations, but that isn’t an adequate replacement for actual valid testing.

There are several things critically broken on the PTS preventing that testing. Penetration, as mentioned, is one of them. Some of the new CP nodes are another. Who knows if there’s other stuff too, with the advanced stats sheet mostly nonfunctional as well. It was a mistake (imo) to release this to PTS for at least two weeks with these highly impactful things not working, since checking dps changes is the first thing a lot of people do on the PTS and dps is one of the biggest factors people consider when they look at the system changes.

One of the bigger danger—as we’re seeing—is that those initial numbers get circulated without the caveat that they are not valid indicators of dps change. People react as if they were, since we want hard numbers and those are the only tangible ones we have. To wait weeks for valid results after the initial PTS update is a hard ask, not least because it means we can’t get an accurate picture of the impact of the system as a whole until then. And it also means it’s hard to provide accurate detailed feedback on particular nodes (the damage ones, I mean) or set changes or other things that impact dps. The PTS as a whole might not be broken, but gauging the damage dealing aspect of it certainly is.

Add to that the issue of not having a 3600 CP template available, and we’re really struggling to form an accurate assessment of the difference between various CP levels here, especially on the higher end. There may well be reason to be concerned, based on what we’re seeing on paper, but those concerns can’t be validated or assuaged right now in light of the lack of valid numbers.

ketermuls

The benefits from the combat buffs are vague and I don't have a sense of what will make my character more powerful.

I can't figure out how to add stars to my topbar.

I don't like how merchant and thieving benefits compete for resources with more important movement speed and sneak bonuses.