PTS Update 29 - Feedback Thread for Champion Point System

PeacefulAnarchy

Artanisul wrote: »

They seriously need to change the paths to open up many of the stars. Stealthy stuff up one branch....general adventure/money/supply stuff up another...crafting up yet another. That's just the Green side.

It really is kind of hap hazard. Or just clue me into how it makes sense maybe? Intuative?

I think there's a general order to things in terms of expected paths, and then they connected them together to give people alternate ways to get there.

I think a better way to lock stars would have been to make the stars higher up the paths have a spent CP prereq. It would keep them from being accessible too early, while giving people a bit more freedom to choose which stars they want and not feel like they wasted CP just to reach something.

LtClungeX

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Can you please put buffs into the Champion System to give builds more variety?

For example, it would be nice to have the option to spend CP to get access to a buff like Major Brutality on a Templar Archer without having to burn a 5 piece set, use a 2H, or chug potions. Thanks.

Good idea, having a CP system that frees a slot up on your bar is a great way of improving your character without just adding flat damage or stats

LtClungeX

NobleX35 wrote: »

Here are my thoughts on the new cp system after doing some testing last night. First, I'd like to say that I think this new system has a lot of potential, but also needs a lot of work.

1. A more reasonable "softcap" is an absolute necessity. Maybe 1.2k CP, since that is the number decided for the new leveling curve? The system was advertised as having an "end point" for vertical progression; however, that end point is 3k+ CP. While it would take less CP to optimize your specific role in PvE, to be optimized in PvP could easily require 3k+ CP. These numbers are completely unacceptable and it is unreasonable to expect players to want to engage in such a system.

2. Convert all passives into slotable perks. I think the idea of slotable perks to complete our builds is a truly interesting approach to the CP system. However, the current proposal contains both slotable and passive perks, which derails from the concept of slotable perks. The problem with passive perks is that there is no downside to going form, essentially making them a necessity to be fully optimized. The problem is compounded by the fact that there are so many passives. I would personally rather all perks be required to be slotted in order to obtain their respective benefits. This would help create a more reasonable softcap, as well as we give the dev's greater control over the difference between vertical and horizontal progression (a major component for the proposed change in the first place).

3. Double the number of slots to 8 per constellation (potentially up to 10 per constellation). This suggestion goes hand-in-hand with my previous point. I think making all the perks required to be slotted would be more interesting, but we would need additional slots to allow for unique build composition's. I think that the number of slots should still be limited so that players can't slot everything, but would have enough slots available to come up with some interesting combinations (especially considering how many additional perks there are now).

4. I am not a fan of the hyper specialization between single target, dot, and aoe damage/mitigation/healing (though point 3 could alleviate some of this problem). I think the older system of direct damage and dot damage made more sense and was a little more fair. For example, NB’s benefit significantly from the new system because they can easily ignore the dot and aoe percent damage modifiers, thus giving them more options to specialize their other 3 slots. DK’s on the other hand will need/want all three 10% damage perks, thus leaving them with only 1 additional slot for whatever else. (I’m just using these two classes as examples since they have the greatest discrepancy). This is especially noticeable when considering the percentage modifier perks all max out at 10% each. These numbers easily provide the greatest damage potential over any other option. Why go for 1400 mag/stam or 150 wd/sd, when you get at least double (if not triple or more) the output with the 10% star. Now, obviously these don’t effect healing, but the difference is so substantial it’s not even worth considering the other perks.

5. Sub trees seem kind of pointless in the current iteration. The passives in a sub tree could easily just be part of the normal tree. If sub trees functioned like set bonuses, where you invest points into the subtree and then slotted the main star to get all the benefits within the sub tree (obviously this would need substantial rebalancing), then sure...but the current system seems pointless.

7. Rework or remove the path’s. It’s kind of obnoxious to be forced to invest points into perks you dont want/won’t use just to reach the perks you do want/will use.

7. General numbers across the board need rebalancing (obviously). Some perks are significantly overperforming other perks, limiting actual choices.

8. This one's been touched on a lot, but it's because it is also kind of obvious. The UI is definitely too “busy.” Needs to be more streamlined and cleaner looking. The graphics look nice, and credit where credit is due. However, the background noise gets in the way of trying to put a build together.

9. Reimplement diminishing returns. I'm ~1450 CP, so this hopefully won't apply to me; however, it is worth mentioning. Many of the goals of the ESO dev team have been to make the game more user friendly to newer players to help grow the community. Diminishing returns helps curve the power gap between new and veteran players. Either make it so earlier points invested in a perk provide more of said perks bonus than later stages, or make each stage provide the same benefit with earlier stages being cheaper to purchase and later stages being more expensive.

Yep if they want to really end vertical progression your points are good ones!

It's made me think!

Passive buffs could be for like freeing up a skill slot,
Example 120 points gives you major brutality at all times or major ward etc.
yes a big commitment!!
but it gives you a free skill slot!
but it's passive.

Anything that gives a flat increase of stats has to be slotable
Example you gain 10 percent extra damage to direct damage.
or aoe damage or a heal over time.
it would totally open up build diversity!!!

bluebird

DebaZapelo wrote: »

I see a lot of complains here but.....
This CP 2.0 system is actually much better.
Let me explain why.

In the current CP system all tanks, DD or healers have almost the same CP distribution based on their role and primary stat.The difference is caused a bit by racial skills but mainly by class skills, armour sets and player skill.

Now with the new CP system build diversity will be introduced.

So you will have to choose what your main type of dmg will be, what kind of healer you will be ...... and so on
Remember that there will still be a limit of 1200 CP per constellation.
[...]
Also be honest and admit how many of you just copy pasted a build from someone on the internet.

Not really. Let me explain why. You will have the same choice as the choice you had before: 'what kind of healer will you be'... a good one, or a bad one. That's it. Same goes for dps and tanks. You don't get to choose what kind of dd you will be other than whether you will be good or bad.

• If you slot perks that increase your AoE damage on a single target burst boss, you're a bad dps.
• If being an AoE fire-soul-wizard is your class fantasy, and you stick with that regardless of the situation, you're a bad dps.
• If you don't have enough CP and only managed to level up an AoE perk which you always use, you're a noob dps.

There will be a BiS perk setup for every situation, just as there was a BiS CP setup for every situation (carefully calculated due to the diminishing returns and the best possible place to use certain numbers of CP).

The difference, however, will be that people didn't expect players to change their CP allocation regularly; while in the new system people will be expected to switch their perks regularly. Most people had a mix of stars that were generally useful in their chosen game mode (due to diminishing returns favoring a more even spread) and the cost of respeccing your CP. In the new system however, switching perks is freely done at any point, and the only-4-perks-per-color and the no diminishing returns favor maxing out stars to switch around, rather than having a wider more universal allocation. So people will be expected to pick perks and then micromanage that perk loadout constantly, whereas in the old system they had to pick perks once.

If you choose not to do it, you won't be a 'diverse' build, you'll be a bad build. Just as there are bad builds right now. Nobody's stopping me from having a double-dualwielding Altmer Stamsorc (I do have one actually ) just don't expect that to be the standard in group content. Nothing was stopping players from choosing offmeta CP setups before either, you could dump all your CP into 2.5 stars per color each (rather than the more efficient spread), maxing out aoe and dot damage and just calling it a day. So 'build diversity' and whatnot will still be mostly for casuals, and there will always be a meta.

And yes, many people 'copy-paste' builds from the internet, since let's be honest math is hard and most people don't know what stats benefit them most (e.g. do their pets scale well with maxmag or spellpower, what's the breaking point between crit and crit chance). That will not change at all. People will still continue to read guides for the best setup. And community perceptions about what's meta and what's better will still filter down into the community.

So really, CP 2.0 is not how you do diversity. It just increases the micromanaging required to be BiS. Build diversity would require mutually exclusive perks that are committed to rather than freely-switchable perks that high-CP players can just unlock in sequence, and have them maxed out and ready for any scenario. And even if a game introduced mutually exclusive 'specialized' builds that people commit to, most players would still choose the BiS one. (That's what happened with WoW and their WoW devs' deluded fantasy about 'meaningful choices' and diversity as well - as it turned out, players just gravitated towards what's best, even when they didn't 'have' to because they weren't at the top end of competitive play).

Silly2202

Looking at how mush Exp you need for 1 CP lvl at the moment on live and that not changing it is bad, i play this game 3 active years and am 1200 CP+ now. it would take years to grind EXP to reach 3600 CP with having to need almost 1 mil exp. even doing skyreach or spellscar will take to long. Pls make exp gain easyer or reduce the amount you need to get 1 CP lvl.

majulook

So I have a Breton Templar ( CP 810 / 1647 actual ) that can currently Heal and DPS. I use a Restro Staff front bar, and Destro staff back bar. In Trials I either Heal, DPS, or both depending on what the group needs.

With the current CP system I have no issues and can do both roles without having to change CP points.

With the new CP system will I have to respect CP points depending on what Role Healer or DPS?

Universe

I believe it will be appropriate to compensate with experience players who played during the current Champion System(Champion System 1.0).
If I understand correctly, ZOS intends to change the way champion points are earned and make them easier to earn.
For example, it will be much easier to get to champion 1,200 when Update 29 will launch.

Here is what I propose(based on the amount of champion points the player has when Update 29 launch):
Player at Champion 810-900 - Player receives instant 30 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 901-1,000 - Player receives instant 50 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,001-1,100 - Player receives instant 70 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,101-1,200 - Player receives instant 90 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,201-1,300 - Player receives instant 110 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,301-1,400 - Player receives instant 130 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,401-1,500 - Player receives instant 150 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,501-1,600 - Player receives instant 170 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,601-1,700 - Player receives instant 190 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,701-1,800 - Player receives instant 210 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1801-1,900 - Player receives instant 230 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,901-2,000 - Player receives instant 250 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,001-2,100 - Player receives instant 270 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,101-2,200 - Player receives instant 290 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,201-2,300 - Player receives instant 310 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,301-2,400 - Player receives instant 330 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,401-2,500 - Player receives instant 350 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,501-2,600 - Player receives instant 370 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,601-2,700 - Player receives instant 390 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,701-2,800 - Player receives instant 410 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,801-2,900 - Player receives instant 430 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,901-3,000 - Player receives instant 450 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 3,001+ - Player reaches the 3,600 cap immediately as a gift


*The numbers I suggested are subject to change and are merely an example of the compensation.
The extra work will be retroactively rewarded!

Sju

Universe wrote: »

I believe it will be appropriate to compensate with experience players who played during the current Champion System(Champion System 1.0).
If I understand correctly, ZOS intends to change the way champion points are earned and make them easier to earn.
For example, it will be much easier to get to champion 1,200 when Update 29 will launch.

Here is what I propose(based on the amount of champion points the player has when Update 29 launch):
Player at Champion 810-900 - Player receives instant 30 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 901-1,000 - Player receives instant 50 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,001-1,100 - Player receives instant 70 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,101-1,200 - Player receives instant 90 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,201-1,300 - Player receives instant 110 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,301-1,400 - Player receives instant 130 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,401-1,500 - Player receives instant 150 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,501-1,600 - Player receives instant 170 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,601-1,700 - Player receives instant 190 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,701-1,800 - Player receives instant 210 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1801-1,900 - Player receives instant 230 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,901-2,000 - Player receives instant 250 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,001-2,100 - Player receives instant 270 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,101-2,200 - Player receives instant 290 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,201-2,300 - Player receives instant 310 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,301-2,400 - Player receives instant 330 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,401-2,500 - Player receives instant 350 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,501-2,600 - Player receives instant 370 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,601-2,700 - Player receives instant 390 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,701-2,800 - Player receives instant 410 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,801-2,900 - Player receives instant 430 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,901-3,000 - Player receives instant 450 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 3,001+ - Player reaches the 3,600 cap immediately as a gift


*The numbers I suggested are subject to change and are merely an example of the compensation.
The extra work will be retroactively rewarded!

People really need to just play the game and level like normal.

katorga

Sju wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

I believe it will be appropriate to compensate with experience players who played during the current Champion System(Champion System 1.0).
If I understand correctly, ZOS intends to change the way champion points are earned and make them easier to earn.
For example, it will be much easier to get to champion 1,200 when Update 29 will launch.

Here is what I propose(based on the amount of champion points the player has when Update 29 launch):
Player at Champion 810-900 - Player receives instant 30 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 901-1,000 - Player receives instant 50 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,001-1,100 - Player receives instant 70 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,101-1,200 - Player receives instant 90 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,201-1,300 - Player receives instant 110 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,301-1,400 - Player receives instant 130 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,401-1,500 - Player receives instant 150 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,501-1,600 - Player receives instant 170 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,601-1,700 - Player receives instant 190 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,701-1,800 - Player receives instant 210 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1801-1,900 - Player receives instant 230 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,901-2,000 - Player receives instant 250 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,001-2,100 - Player receives instant 270 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,101-2,200 - Player receives instant 290 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,201-2,300 - Player receives instant 310 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,301-2,400 - Player receives instant 330 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,401-2,500 - Player receives instant 350 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,501-2,600 - Player receives instant 370 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,601-2,700 - Player receives instant 390 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,701-2,800 - Player receives instant 410 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,801-2,900 - Player receives instant 430 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,901-3,000 - Player receives instant 450 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 3,001+ - Player reaches the 3,600 cap immediately as a gift


*The numbers I suggested are subject to change and are merely an example of the compensation.
The extra work will be retroactively rewarded!

People really need to just play the game and level like normal.

Maybe. I'd hate to be a brand new player though. 3600 is a pretty discouraging number. I could see ZOS making 1-1200 wicked fast and 1201-3600 a painful grind in order to cluster players around the mean.

Nordic__Knights

Sju wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

I believe it will be appropriate to compensate with experience players who played during the current Champion System(Champion System 1.0).
If I understand correctly, ZOS intends to change the way champion points are earned and make them easier to earn.
For example, it will be much easier to get to champion 1,200 when Update 29 will launch.

Here is what I propose(based on the amount of champion points the player has when Update 29 launch):
Player at Champion 810-900 - Player receives instant 30 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 901-1,000 - Player receives instant 50 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,001-1,100 - Player receives instant 70 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,101-1,200 - Player receives instant 90 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,201-1,300 - Player receives instant 110 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,301-1,400 - Player receives instant 130 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,401-1,500 - Player receives instant 150 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,501-1,600 - Player receives instant 170 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,601-1,700 - Player receives instant 190 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,701-1,800 - Player receives instant 210 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1801-1,900 - Player receives instant 230 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,901-2,000 - Player receives instant 250 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,001-2,100 - Player receives instant 270 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,101-2,200 - Player receives instant 290 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,201-2,300 - Player receives instant 310 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,301-2,400 - Player receives instant 330 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,401-2,500 - Player receives instant 350 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,501-2,600 - Player receives instant 370 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,601-2,700 - Player receives instant 390 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,701-2,800 - Player receives instant 410 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,801-2,900 - Player receives instant 430 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,901-3,000 - Player receives instant 450 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 3,001+ - Player reaches the 3,600 cap immediately as a gift


*The numbers I suggested are subject to change and are merely an example of the compensation.
The extra work will be retroactively rewarded!

People really need to just play the game and level like normal.

1420-1421CP IS 1,138,669 XP
806-807CP IS 445,578 XP
THATS CLOSE TO 3XS MORE FOR LESS THEN HALF THE MAX WHATS 3599-3600 GOING TO BE 36,363,636 XP

oh lets remember its 1.3k xp per add lol have fun on that GRINDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Luckylancer

Can some Crafting CP passives be active at non-CP? Like faster gathering, better sell prices, better treasure chests etc. Just the ones that are litteraly imposible to get combat advantage. Less charge usage, longer food buffs and not consuming pot/poisons on use can benefit new players a lot. It dont make sense they have to be at monetary disadvantage at Non-CP PvP because they dont go to CP PvP to avoid being smashed by higher CP veterans.

silvereyes

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Sju wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

I believe it will be appropriate to compensate with experience players who played during the current Champion System(Champion System 1.0).
If I understand correctly, ZOS intends to change the way champion points are earned and make them easier to earn.
For example, it will be much easier to get to champion 1,200 when Update 29 will launch.

Here is what I propose(based on the amount of champion points the player has when Update 29 launch):
Player at Champion 810-900 - Player receives instant 30 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 901-1,000 - Player receives instant 50 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,001-1,100 - Player receives instant 70 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,101-1,200 - Player receives instant 90 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,201-1,300 - Player receives instant 110 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,301-1,400 - Player receives instant 130 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,401-1,500 - Player receives instant 150 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,501-1,600 - Player receives instant 170 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,601-1,700 - Player receives instant 190 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,701-1,800 - Player receives instant 210 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1801-1,900 - Player receives instant 230 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,901-2,000 - Player receives instant 250 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,001-2,100 - Player receives instant 270 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,101-2,200 - Player receives instant 290 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,201-2,300 - Player receives instant 310 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,301-2,400 - Player receives instant 330 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,401-2,500 - Player receives instant 350 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,501-2,600 - Player receives instant 370 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,601-2,700 - Player receives instant 390 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,701-2,800 - Player receives instant 410 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,801-2,900 - Player receives instant 430 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,901-3,000 - Player receives instant 450 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 3,001+ - Player reaches the 3,600 cap immediately as a gift


*The numbers I suggested are subject to change and are merely an example of the compensation.
The extra work will be retroactively rewarded!

People really need to just play the game and level like normal.

1420-1421CP IS 1,138,669 XP
806-807CP IS 445,578 XP
THATS CLOSE TO 3XS MORE FOR LESS THEN HALF THE MAX WHATS 3599-3600 GOING TO BE 36,363,636 XP

oh lets remember its 1.3k xp per add lol have fun on that GRINDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

You are comparing apples to oranges. It takes much longer to get from 806-807 today than it will after the cap increase. They have a catch up boost for levels that are far from cap, and they stated that they intend to adjust the curve accordingly for CP 2.0.

That’s not to say it won’t be a grind, but I don’t expect CP 2.0 10-36001200 to take significantly longer than CP 1.0 10-810 for new players.

For players that already did the entire CP 1.0 grind and then threw out their training gear, it’s definitely going to take another long grind, but it shouldn’t be any worse than the one we’ve done before.

Edit: Correction, the XP boost only applies up to CP 1200 in CP 2.0. The stated goal being that they want people to start focusing on horizontal progression at that point.

Maggusemm

"For players that already did the entire CP 1.0 grind and then threw out their training gear, it’s definitely going to take another long grind, but it shouldn’t be any worse than the one we’ve done before.[/quote]"

Whats the reason that players should do it again? They will just leave. There is no skill involved in getting up higher CP. We need content, not grinding. For sure we need a CP adjustment of old players to the new curve.

One ZOS guy already said a CP adjustment is not planned. They will do it anyway. Because people will just leave the game if they wont do it.

lillybit

Maggusemm wrote: »

"For players that already did the entire CP 1.0 grind and then threw out their training gear, it’s definitely going to take another long grind, but it shouldn’t be any worse than the one we’ve done before.

"

Whats the reason that players should do it again? They will just leave. There is no skill involved in getting up higher CP. We need content, not grinding. For sure we need a CP adjustment of old players to the new curve.

One ZOS guy already said a CP adjustment is not planned. They will do it anyway. Because people will just leave the game if they wont do it.

They won't do it. They're fine with people leaving.

(Edited to fix quote)

Nordic__Knights

silvereyes wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Sju wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

I believe it will be appropriate to compensate with experience players who played during the current Champion System(Champion System 1.0).
If I understand correctly, ZOS intends to change the way champion points are earned and make them easier to earn.
For example, it will be much easier to get to champion 1,200 when Update 29 will launch.

Here is what I propose(based on the amount of champion points the player has when Update 29 launch):
Player at Champion 810-900 - Player receives instant 30 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 901-1,000 - Player receives instant 50 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,001-1,100 - Player receives instant 70 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,101-1,200 - Player receives instant 90 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,201-1,300 - Player receives instant 110 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,301-1,400 - Player receives instant 130 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,401-1,500 - Player receives instant 150 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,501-1,600 - Player receives instant 170 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,601-1,700 - Player receives instant 190 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,701-1,800 - Player receives instant 210 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1801-1,900 - Player receives instant 230 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,901-2,000 - Player receives instant 250 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,001-2,100 - Player receives instant 270 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,101-2,200 - Player receives instant 290 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,201-2,300 - Player receives instant 310 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,301-2,400 - Player receives instant 330 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,401-2,500 - Player receives instant 350 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,501-2,600 - Player receives instant 370 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,601-2,700 - Player receives instant 390 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,701-2,800 - Player receives instant 410 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,801-2,900 - Player receives instant 430 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,901-3,000 - Player receives instant 450 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 3,001+ - Player reaches the 3,600 cap immediately as a gift


*The numbers I suggested are subject to change and are merely an example of the compensation.
The extra work will be retroactively rewarded!

People really need to just play the game and level like normal.

1420-1421CP IS 1,138,669 XP
806-807CP IS 445,578 XP
THATS CLOSE TO 3XS MORE FOR LESS THEN HALF THE MAX WHATS 3599-3600 GOING TO BE 36,363,636 XP

oh lets remember its 1.3k xp per add lol have fun on that GRINDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

You are comparing apples to oranges. It takes much longer to get from 806-807 today than it will after the cap increase. They have a catch up boost for levels that are far from cap, and they stated that they intend to adjust the curve accordingly for CP 2.0.

That’s not to say it won’t be a grind, but I don’t expect CP 2.0 10-3600 to take significantly longer than CP 1.0 10-810 for new players.

For players that already did the entire CP 1.0 grind and then threw out their training gear, it’s definitely going to take another long grind, but it shouldn’t be any worse than the one we’ve done before.

idk what your thanking but they said themselves that at 1200cp the make up buff goes bye bye and cp once again is 3xs the amount per as is on live today so NO YOU WONT BEING GETTING 3600 LIKE YOU DID 810 LOL NEW PLAYERS MIGHT SEE AN FAST ROAD TO 1200 BUT AFTER THAT ITS ALL DOWNHILL AND I CAN PUT MONEY THAT BE THE POINT THEY STOP PLAYING TOO

Artanisul

The forums keep trying to get me to quote the wrong post....

In reply to this

From Nordic Knight : idk what your thanking but they said themselves that at 1200cp the make up buff goes bye bye and cp once again is 3xs the amount per as is on live today so NO YOU WONT BEING GETTING 3600 LIKE YOU DID 810 LOL NEW PLAYERS MIGHT SEE AN FAST ROAD TO 1200 BUT AFTER THAT ITS ALL DOWNHILL AND I CAN PUT MONEY THAT BE THE POINT THEY STOP PLAYING TOO

That will just be the point 90% stop grinding, not stop playing. The end game community is not gigantic. Min Maxers make up just a small part of the herd of players.

Firstmep

bluebird wrote: »

DebaZapelo wrote: »

I see a lot of complains here but.....
This CP 2.0 system is actually much better.
Let me explain why.

In the current CP system all tanks, DD or healers have almost the same CP distribution based on their role and primary stat.The difference is caused a bit by racial skills but mainly by class skills, armour sets and player skill.

Now with the new CP system build diversity will be introduced.

So you will have to choose what your main type of dmg will be, what kind of healer you will be ...... and so on
Remember that there will still be a limit of 1200 CP per constellation.
[...]
Also be honest and admit how many of you just copy pasted a build from someone on the internet.

Not really. Let me explain why. You will have the same choice as the choice you had before: 'what kind of healer will you be'... a good one, or a bad one. That's it. Same goes for dps and tanks. You don't get to choose what kind of dd you will be other than whether you will be good or bad.

• If you slot perks that increase your AoE damage on a single target burst boss, you're a bad dps.
• If being an AoE fire-soul-wizard is your class fantasy, and you stick with that regardless of the situation, you're a bad dps.
• If you don't have enough CP and only managed to level up an AoE perk which you always use, you're a noob dps.

There will be a BiS perk setup for every situation, just as there was a BiS CP setup for every situation (carefully calculated due to the diminishing returns and the best possible place to use certain numbers of CP).

The difference, however, will be that people didn't expect players to change their CP allocation regularly; while in the new system people will be expected to switch their perks regularly. Most people had a mix of stars that were generally useful in their chosen game mode (due to diminishing returns favoring a more even spread) and the cost of respeccing your CP. In the new system however, switching perks is freely done at any point, and the only-4-perks-per-color and the no diminishing returns favor maxing out stars to switch around, rather than having a wider more universal allocation. So people will be expected to pick perks and then micromanage that perk loadout constantly, whereas in the old system they had to pick perks once.

If you choose not to do it, you won't be a 'diverse' build, you'll be a bad build. Just as there are bad builds right now. Nobody's stopping me from having a double-dualwielding Altmer Stamsorc (I do have one actually ) just don't expect that to be the standard in group content. Nothing was stopping players from choosing offmeta CP setups before either, you could dump all your CP into 2.5 stars per color each (rather than the more efficient spread), maxing out aoe and dot damage and just calling it a day. So 'build diversity' and whatnot will still be mostly for casuals, and there will always be a meta.

And yes, many people 'copy-paste' builds from the internet, since let's be honest math is hard and most people don't know what stats benefit them most (e.g. do their pets scale well with maxmag or spellpower, what's the breaking point between crit and crit chance). That will not change at all. People will still continue to read guides for the best setup. And community perceptions about what's meta and what's better will still filter down into the community.

So really, CP 2.0 is not how you do diversity. It just increases the micromanaging required to be BiS. Build diversity would require mutually exclusive perks that are committed to rather than freely-switchable perks that high-CP players can just unlock in sequence, and have them maxed out and ready for any scenario. And even if a game introduced mutually exclusive 'specialized' builds that people commit to, most players would still choose the BiS one. (That's what happened with WoW and their WoW devs' deluded fantasy about 'meaningful choices' and diversity as well - as it turned out, players just gravitated towards what's best, even when they didn't 'have' to because they weren't at the top end of competitive play).

And its likely that people with lower cps will invest into always active passives as much as possible, meaning they will have to spend gold to respec their slottables, or run a subpar setup, or allocate slottables and miss out on some of the power from always active passives.
At least in the current system you don't need to fiddle much with your cp unless you're swapping between pve and PvP.
Come next patch you can expect to spend an ungodly amount of time in the cp ui, assuming you don't want to miss out.
Hopefully someone makes an addon that somehow let's us swap cp allocations.

Of course all this could be avoided with a new cp cap of let's say 1200, until the devs figure out what vertical and horizontal progression actually mean, Beacuse looking at cp 2.0 it's clear they have no clue.

ErMurazor

2 things. Im ok with faster CP gain between 810-1200. After 1200 though it shouldnt be as on live now. It should be faster aswell. Put another softcap between 1200-2000 CP.. Alot of veteran players are now around 1300-1500 CP. With the speedy CP gain up to 1200. Almost the entire playerbase will in a couple months be 1200-1500 CP and stay there basically.

And second thing. You should get your CP lvl in this new system based on Total XP earned nothing else or you totaly invalidates all thoose playing hours ppl put in to support this game.

Firstmep

ErMurazor wrote: »

2 things. Im ok with faster CP gain between 810-1200. After 1200 though it shouldnt be as on live now. It should be faster aswell. Put another softcap between 1200-2000 CP.. Alot of veteran players are now around 1300-1500 CP. With the speedy CP gain up to 1200. Almost the entire playerbase will in a couple months be 1200-1500 CP and stay there basically.

And second thing. You should get your CP lvl in this new system based on Total XP earned nothing else or you totaly invalidates all thoose playing hours ppl put in to support this game.

Exept depending on the content you did, you may have earned massively different amounts of xp.
As it stands, come next patch a lot of ppl will grind zombos, while some will spam master alchemy writs.
The amount of hours you put into this game doesn't really reflect on your cp.

GrimTheReaper45

Havent got a real look at the new round of changes but from the patch notes it sounds like an improvement. Thanks for listening to the feedback zos!

DeathStalker

If what is on PTS goes live then a lot of content will be unplayable by a lot of people. I understand that the power of those at the top needed to be nerfed. But you are hitting the people at the very bottom proportionally just as hard.

I understand you can't respond to every post. But what about engaging on the topics important to those who are testing and spending money on this game? Some of us have spent real money on changing our races. What about a comment on the request for race change tokens? What about a comment on the damage nerf making some content unplayable?

I just find the lack of engagement by ESO with the community during this PTS cycle very frustrating. Why is communicating with us so hard? I'm not asking to be given everything we want but instead, we are asking just to be listened to. It's hard not to become frustrated when you don't feel listened to or acknowledged but instead, feel like you're given the middle finger and told to just shut up, accept it and hand over money.

Env_t

del

Xebov

Since european characters where copied today i had a chance to see how far my 1350 CP get me.

In total i need about ~15% less XP compared to live. Additionally my 1300 CP are barely enought to get relevant nodes for one role. Given that we didnt get any multispec with the patch this also means that Tank and Heal players still have to deal with respecs if they want to fill a DD role.

What realy grinds my gears here is how long is it expected to take to reach the cap (that seems to be not enought to skill everything)? My rough estimation is in years and i wonder how new players ever gonna catch up.

Duplomancer

I don't get why CP XP has to be on a curve, rather than a set amount of XP needed for every point. Ex. 1st CP cost 100k xp, 811th cost 100kxp, 3599th cp cost 100k XP (amount can be whatever).

A curve implies difficulty to get to the next level or point. Since that is really kind of moot (XP grinding in this game is not hard, just tedious), it would make sense to "normalize" the XP per point.

Universe

Env_t wrote: »

Patchnotes on PTS stated:


can anyone please clarify this? is this intended? How it must work?

after 3rd PTS patch, this is what we have:

LIVE CP



PTS CP


...... we will lose CP??!!!

Yes.
I suggested a way to compensate veteran players so it will negate the effects of the new champion system experience curve:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/560918/suggestion-champion-points-compensation-for-veteran-players-when-update-29-launch/p1

Xebov wrote: »

Since european characters where copied today i had a chance to see how far my 1350 CP get me.

In total i need about ~15% less XP compared to live. Additionally my 1300 CP are barely enought to get relevant nodes for one role. Given that we didnt get any multispec with the patch this also means that Tank and Heal players still have to deal with respecs if they want to fill a DD role.

What realy grinds my gears here is how long is it expected to take to reach the cap (that seems to be not enought to skill everything)? My rough estimation is in years and i wonder how new players ever gonna catch up.

You do have a valid point and I partly agree.
While progression for veteran players is important, a new player should not face major combat disadvantages.
This is why ZOS is trying to take some of the vertical power out of the Champion system to balance it out, but so far not successfully enough.

In my last test in PTS I did 26% less DPS compared to Live.
Currently, I'm champion 1233(1234 on Live, but that's just 1 point xD).

The 3600 cap makes it extremely hard to balance it out and make everyone happy.
Maybe the smart move will be to lower it to Champion 2,700 as a start and figure it out.

Xebov

Universe wrote: »

Env_t wrote: »

Patchnotes on PTS stated:


can anyone please clarify this? is this intended? How it must work?

after 3rd PTS patch, this is what we have:

LIVE CP



PTS CP


...... we will lose CP??!!!

Yes.
I suggested a way to compensate veteran players so it will negate the effects of the new champion system experience curve:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/560918/suggestion-champion-points-compensation-for-veteran-players-when-update-29-launch/p1

Xebov wrote: »

Since european characters where copied today i had a chance to see how far my 1350 CP get me.

In total i need about ~15% less XP compared to live. Additionally my 1300 CP are barely enought to get relevant nodes for one role. Given that we didnt get any multispec with the patch this also means that Tank and Heal players still have to deal with respecs if they want to fill a DD role.

What realy grinds my gears here is how long is it expected to take to reach the cap (that seems to be not enought to skill everything)? My rough estimation is in years and i wonder how new players ever gonna catch up.

You do have a valid point and I partly agree.
While progression for veteran players is important, a new player should not face major combat disadvantages.
This is why ZOS is trying to take some of the vertical power out of the Champion system to balance it out, but so far not successfully enough.

In my last test in PTS I did 26% less DPS compared to Live.
Currently, I'm champion 1233(1234 on Live, but that's just 1 point xD).

I dont think that vertical power alone is the problem here.

The old CP system has the benefit of diminishing returns which allows new players to relatively fast close the CP gap to veterans because they can get a big chunk of the bonuses with 50-75% of the CP cap, which is easier to achieve given the XP needed for this part of the CP.
The issue iam seeing with the new system is that vertical power is a linear progression and its very expansive. This also means that newer players have to play far longer to get into a state where they catched up. The huge amounts of XP needed for this can easily be a neckbreaker. A side effect of the expansive nature is that players have to specialize more compared to the current system leaving little room for extras. This makes the slot system practically useless because players will not have enought points to fill it or have extras that dont fit.

With 1350 CP i made it to 4 green, 4 blue, 3 red slotable stars. The green i only got because i wanted specific ones so i ignored alot of passive ones. The blues are just tanking related with many extras not skilled and damage passives completely ignored. The red area is also tanking related while some stuff is still missing. With this situation my only way to make an actual DD build for solo arenas etc would be respecing. This, again, puts Tanks and healers to the short end of the stick and even worse than before.

silvereyes

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Sju wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

I believe it will be appropriate to compensate with experience players who played during the current Champion System(Champion System 1.0).
If I understand correctly, ZOS intends to change the way champion points are earned and make them easier to earn.
For example, it will be much easier to get to champion 1,200 when Update 29 will launch.

Here is what I propose(based on the amount of champion points the player has when Update 29 launch):
Player at Champion 810-900 - Player receives instant 30 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 901-1,000 - Player receives instant 50 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,001-1,100 - Player receives instant 70 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,101-1,200 - Player receives instant 90 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,201-1,300 - Player receives instant 110 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,301-1,400 - Player receives instant 130 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,401-1,500 - Player receives instant 150 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,501-1,600 - Player receives instant 170 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,601-1,700 - Player receives instant 190 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,701-1,800 - Player receives instant 210 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1801-1,900 - Player receives instant 230 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 1,901-2,000 - Player receives instant 250 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,001-2,100 - Player receives instant 270 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,101-2,200 - Player receives instant 290 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,201-2,300 - Player receives instant 310 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,301-2,400 - Player receives instant 330 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,401-2,500 - Player receives instant 350 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,501-2,600 - Player receives instant 370 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,601-2,700 - Player receives instant 390 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,701-2,800 - Player receives instant 410 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,801-2,900 - Player receives instant 430 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 2,901-3,000 - Player receives instant 450 champion points as a gift
Player at Champion 3,001+ - Player reaches the 3,600 cap immediately as a gift


*The numbers I suggested are subject to change and are merely an example of the compensation.
The extra work will be retroactively rewarded!

People really need to just play the game and level like normal.

1420-1421CP IS 1,138,669 XP
806-807CP IS 445,578 XP
THATS CLOSE TO 3XS MORE FOR LESS THEN HALF THE MAX WHATS 3599-3600 GOING TO BE 36,363,636 XP

oh lets remember its 1.3k xp per add lol have fun on that GRINDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

You are comparing apples to oranges. It takes much longer to get from 806-807 today than it will after the cap increase. They have a catch up boost for levels that are far from cap, and they stated that they intend to adjust the curve accordingly for CP 2.0.

That’s not to say it won’t be a grind, but I don’t expect CP 2.0 10-3600 to take significantly longer than CP 1.0 10-810 for new players.

For players that already did the entire CP 1.0 grind and then threw out their training gear, it’s definitely going to take another long grind, but it shouldn’t be any worse than the one we’ve done before.

idk what your thanking but they said themselves that at 1200cp the make up buff goes bye bye and cp once again is 3xs the amount per as is on live today so NO YOU WONT BEING GETTING 3600 LIKE YOU DID 810 LOL NEW PLAYERS MIGHT SEE AN FAST ROAD TO 1200 BUT AFTER THAT ITS ALL DOWNHILL AND I CAN PUT MONEY THAT BE THE POINT THEY STOP PLAYING TOO

My mistake. I missed the addendum where they said the catch-up XP boost will end at CP 1200.

I guess the idea is that they really don't want people feeling like they need to grind after CP 1200, but that seems fairly naïve to me. As long as there are combat-related passives - including defensive ones - to be gained by grinding, people will feel the need to grind.

I'm fine with the goal of having vertical progression end at 1200, along with the XP boost. However, I don't think that they have hit that mark, yet.

Brrrofski

I can't test anything on PTS, so I have a question for the PvP players who have been on.

How much power advantage does a 1600 cp have over a 1200 for instance? I know you have to slot 4 passives, but aren't there some you always get? If so, does that extra CP makes a huge difference? Even if it is small margins like 2% here and 3% there, you add a few of them up and it makes all the difference in PvP.

tmbrinks

The change of the soft cap to 1020 is a 20-30% nerf in the total amount of XP you need to earn to get to a specific CP level.

The changes to the stars means that 1100-1200 CP is enough to be fully specced for your role.

End-game CP PVP is going to require some more to get ALL of your passives/etc.. (but there are 3 less of those now that they got made slottable)

The entire CP system is "nerfed" to be less powerful and less important to a players build, so that a players ability will be more important now than it is on Live.

Players will still be able to get minimal increases in mitigation and/or survivability and/or off-stats by getting additional CP, but their overall power will only very minimally change.

tmbrinks

Brrrofski wrote: »

I can't test anything on PTS, so I have a question for the PvP players who have been on.

How much power advantage does a 1600 cp have over a 1200 for instance? I know you have to slot 4 passives, but aren't there some you always get? If so, does that extra CP makes a huge difference? Even if it is small margins like 2% here and 3% there, you add a few of them up and it makes all the difference in PvP.

I would bet when all the number crunching gets done the TOTAL difference between 1200 CP and 1600 CP is less than 3% combined... and less than 5% when compared with somebody at max CP.

Player skill is and still will be much, much more important than your CP.