ESO Overland Veteran Mode

Iccotak · June 2020

NOTES:
->The changes in the Veteran Zone setting would be optional and not applied to Normal Zones, Dungeons, Trials, or PvP.
->Please make sure to read the Q&A at the end as it might answer some questions and concerns you may have after you’re finished reading.

To Preface:
We know that the Developers are talking about difficulty options for overland & story content.

From Reddit about 1 year ago
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bwdb0r/comment/epwrb9x
Text of answer

ZOS_MattF
Hello! We have no plans on implementing spears, but we have talked off and on about cool ways to do the one hand magic/one hand weapon thing. That's not on our roadmap anywhere, but we have been brainstorming.

There are so many cool things we could do! Seriously, we love these ideas too, but it all comes down to a matter of time and priorities.

EDIT: to respond to your edit. Yes, we've talked about this, in fact we tried to get that into the game as part of One Tamriel, but we just couldn't get it done. So we have ideas on how to have difficulty settings for overland content, but it's not currently planned. It's a great idea.

So this is Not a discussion on "if" they should do it.
This is my proposal of what a Veteran difficulty setting option for Overland content could look like.

Veteran Mode for Zones
This is a separate instance of existing zones but with harder content.
The reason this veteran zone is a separate instance is because it takes some inspiration from the “Adventure Zone” concept, that ZOS tried a while ago in Craglorn, but with some tweaks & adjustments and applies it to the existing zones.

Players of any level can enter this instance but are warned that the content is harder and might need friends to help complete some of the areas in the game.
Solo is still a viable play style but it will be harder than it is in the “Normal Zone” instance. Also Players can still do the story on their own in Veteran until the Final Boss.
So if a player feels that the current content is too easy and want more challenge in their overland/story experience - they can check out Veteran Zones.

This Veteran Zone includes the following
Meaning;
- Larger enemy mobs
- Enemies have more health & deal more damage
- Enemies have greater range of detection
- Enemies have more mechanics/tactics/abilities
- Veteran Delve Bosses
- Veteran World Bosses that scale up to more players than in Normal
- Veteran Dolmens that scale up to more players than in Normal
- Veteran Story Bosses are hard group activities (more health & damage dealt, more mechanics + a Hard Mode)

Overland Content Changes
Enemies, Delves, Dolmens, and World bosses

Changes would have to be made to the enemies in order to make the overland more exciting.
Meaning that enemies will have to be Tougher. Not just more health & more damage dealt.

They will have access to more abilities, including ultimates, and tactics along with the removal certain cues that were available in normal overland.
For example: the red path indicator that an enemy is about to charge you would no longer be visible and they would charge at you about 50% faster than they do in normal.

Sometimes a mob leader will be of higher status. So a mini boss can actually be encountered in the wild. Like a “Bandit Chief”.

The Coldharbour spawns in the vanilla zones include more enemies.

Tougher monsters will be littered throughout the zone, like we see in Craglorn with mobs that include Atronachs
Example: Veteran Murkmire will have large Voriplasm monsters, Wamasu & Argonian Behemoths wandering certain parts of the zone.
Imagine a Voriplasm Wamasu Skeleton monster.

With those changes Delves will be tougher without necessarily needing to increase the population too much.

Dolmens & World Bosses will scale to greater amount of players. This way it is much harder to cheese the encounters.
Dragons are going to have to use more abilities and use them more frequently.

Just some examples of how encounters could be “tougher” and not just “longer”.

Changes to the Story Bosses?
Many Endgame Players, including myself, are tired of Story Bosses that are designed for casual players which can be easily dispatched. It’s hard to care about the story when the final antagonist can be beaten in 2 seconds.
So in Veteran Mode, the Main Antagonists are memorable experiences that live up the how the stories build them up.

In Veteran Mod the Story Boss encounters are essentially re-done to convert them into Repeatable Dungeons & Trials. Q2 & Q4 quest bosses would become dungeons, while the Season Story Boss would be a Trial. These encounters would not be something that players could queue for but would have to seek aid in/out of game. These dungeons & trials are for challenge so they will not have a normal mode nor will they have gear sets.
These bosses are the end goal to test your mettle from all the work you’ve done so the only rewards from these encounters are cosmetic to show off your accomplishment.

If a player wants the solo story boss experience then they can play the “Normal Zone” setting.
(EDIT: Is there room for Vet Solo story bosses? Of course.)

NOTES:
- This does not apply to the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood DLCs. Those bosses will be harder but they will NOT be converted to group content.
- In Veteran Mode, the Craglorn Zone will be reverted to making the Trials necessary to complete the whole main story quest line.

Dungeons & Trials: Full Break-Down

Spoiler

NEW group activities
Planemeld

Spoiler

Trial: The God of Schemes - Make your way to Molag Bal and defeat the God of Schemes

Spoiler

Orsinium

Spoiler

Dungeon: Scarp Keep - Stop King Kurog from killing the Orc Clan Chiefs

Spoiler

Daedric War

Spoiler

Dungeon: The Clockwork Vault - Defeat Barbas in the Clockwork City to restore Vivec

Spoiler

Dungeon: Cogitum Centralis - Find the Shadow of Sotha Sil and stop him before the Clockwork city is lost forever

Spoiler

Dungeon: The Crystal Tower - stop Nocturnal before she uses the tower to remake reality.

Spoiler

The Reason that the Final boss in Summerset is not a Trial (even though Nocturnal is the end of the arc) is because the Daedric War Arc was not part of the Seasonal Model that Zenimax went with in the following year

Murkmire

Spoiler

Dungeon: Vakka-Bok Xanmeer - Prevent Kassandra from acquiring the Remnant of Argon

Spoiler

Season of the Dragon

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Dungeon: Jode's Core - Defend Jode's core and defeat Mulaamnir to save Northern Elsweyr

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Dungeon: Doomstone Keep - Assist Nahfahlar end his feud with Laatvulon to save Southern Elsweyr

Spoiler

8de58c83cbcee0154e40f081cff82e2b_dragons-overshadow-the-ruins-of-pellitine_wallpaper-1920x1080.jpg

Trial: Dragonhold - Journey to Dragonhold and Defeat Kaalgrontiid to save Tamriel

Spoiler

525b059bc747f1102d9c82c7c6067c61_final-stand-against-kaalgrontiid_wallpaper-1920x1080.jpg

Question of Rewards
In past discussion one of the major issues with “Veteran Overland” that people have brought up is players using Vet mode for farming gear more efficiently, this would create an extreme divide in player base and leave the normal zones empty.
In my opinion the current gear reward system in Normal is already very good and if the goal is challenge then increased monetary reward should not be the priority. So Veteran mode for Overland will NOT provide any advantage in obtaining better gear.
If a player wants to grind for gear in the zones then Normal mode would be more efficient. This way there is not a drastic split in the PvE player base.

Also players with existing characters who have already completed the zones & quests have no reason to return so, besides gear, what would make players interested in going back? Add things that allows players to show off their achievements, that’s a better long term reward than farming gear which has stats that could change under any given update.

Just like Dungeons & Trials - Add Achievements & Cosmetics that can be obtained through gameplay.
In the base game make an achievement for completing the challenges for each faction in Veteran mode: Ebonheart Pact, Daggerfall Covenant, & Aldmeri Dominion
Then apply this system to current & future DLC content

Make a list of achievements for each Boss & Group content of each zone.
- Beat X number of Y type Enemies
- Beat all Vet Delves
- Beat the Vet Public Dungeon
- Beat all Vet World Bosses
- Beat all Vet Dolmens (or beat them X number of times)
- Beat the Vet Story Boss

Add achievements for the Story Boss to make players want to go back and repeat the fight
- Speed run
- No Death
- Hard Mode
Something like we see in dungeons & trials
Image Example of achievement challenges for the Fang Lair Dungeon

Spoiler

What kind of obtainable cosmetics? Like Dungeons & Trials we would be able to obtain;
- Titles
- Colors
- Head items (hat, hair, facial hair, face markings, adornments, etc)
- Skins
- Costumes
- Signature Motifs
- Collectibles
- Furniture
- Pets
- Personalities
- Mounts
- House

Overall this would provide a lot of re-playability.

Final
This would require more effort and investment from the developers but I think this system would do the following;
- Provides more challenge for all players
- Encourages players to work together and socialize.
- Makes the story experience more enjoyable & engaging for long term endgame players, where the main antagonist is a memorable experience that fulfills the build up the of the story.
- Adds more cosmetics that can be obtained through gameplay.
- Adds a system which works to close the skill gap by encouraging players to venture out of their comfort zone.
- Adds re-playability to content.
- Overall adds more to the game which increases the value of existing & future content.

Q&A
Please check this section as some of your questions may have already been answered here.

Spoiler

Q. I’ve already completed the zones, will I have to do the story all over again with an existing character? Can I still obtain the rewards?
A.You will not have to repeat overland story content with an existing character in Vet mode. If you’ve already completed a Zone in Normal then it will be completed in Veteran.
The Veteran achievements and rewards are specific to repeatable overland content.
So Veteran Overland achievements & rewards can still be accomplished with an existing character, even if that player has already completed it on Normal.

To be clear you will not get the rewards for completing the challenges on normal, it has to be done in the veteran instance.

Q. Can I still solo in Veteran Zones?
A.You can certainly try, although the content is going to demand more of you than it does in normal.
A point of Veteran zones is to make a group play style more viable in overland. So while players certainly can solo the content they will also have a better reason to find a friend(s) to play with. Allowing for challenges as well as more reason to play together.

With that said none of the story, except for the final boss, requires the player to be in a group.

Q.Why not just use a de-buff in the normal zone?
A.This is a three-part answer.
First. A de-buff boils down to putting in unto the player to make the game harder when it is the game that should be making the content harder for the player.
The players should not have to Nerf themselves in order to make overland & story more challenging and/or enjoyable.

Second. Opting for a De-buff in a normal zone is opting to make yourself useless in comparison to casual/new players. This would result in casual players outpacing their more powerful peers within the same instance.
What if you were in a group but were the only one with a de-buff? Your party would most likely tell you to turn it off.

Imagine if a group of de-buffed players were outdone by a casual player, that is not fun or motivating in the slightest. It also doesn’t work to bridge the skill gap at all.
There is no allure in putting a handicap on yourself.

A veteran instance would be better because it would be a harder for everyone making it an even playing ground, which everyone there chose to participate in.
The content should be in such a way that players are motivated to get more powerful and skilled in the game.
Which leads to the third point.

Third. In order to make overland more engaging for people seeking a challenge, whether casual or veteran, as well as better prepare new players for harder content then the enemies need to be in larger mobs while also using more mechanics & abilities.

Essentially, in order to make them work in Veteran Zones, the changes to enemies would be incompatible with Normal Zones.

Q. Why not have gear rewards that are of higher tier when participating in Veteran Overland?
A. Two part answer.
1. The reward system is already in a good place. Also, players would leave “normal mode” in droves because Veteran offered higher tier rewards allowing for more efficient grind - this would leave normal mode redundant.
2. The single player titles never offered more reward for switching difficulty. The increased difficulty provided incentive to get better at the game. That is the goal of Veteran Zones - incentive for players to get better.

So not only is the cosmetic rewards system a good middle ground but it also gives what many players have been asking for - more cosmetics that can be obtained in through game activities.

Q.Why add any reward at all?
A.
1. Because very few people would play for the challenge alone.
2. ZOS understands this which is why they would never implement an activity that offers no reward.

Q. Will the group mode of story bosses be accessible in the normal zones
A.The group content for Story Bosses (Story dungeons & trials) will NOT be accessible in Normal mode.
There is no difficulty setting for this group content and you cannot queue for it.
They will be hard, challenging, and full of trial & error as to make the experiences memorable.
Also, Just like Dungeons & Trials, Story Bosses will have a Hard Mode Scroll for a foe worth bragging about.
Story Bosses are truly end game content in Veteran mode, so if a player is not ready then they can come back at a later time.

Q.Why did you change the story bosses into group content?
A.This is an MMO and a threat to Tamriel should feel like it. Like I said before; a point of Veteran mode is to make Group style play more viable for guilds & friends as well as to encourage them to be social.
The story bosses in normal were already easy mini-group content so this mode takes them to their top potential.

Keeping in line with the logic of a Veteran zone in this proposal - they don’t have gear rewards, only cosmetic for achievements accomplished.

Making content that is exclusive to Veteran Mode which offers cosmetic rewards would encourage players to try out the Veteran Zone.
This encouragement and exposure would help bridge the gap between Casual and Endgame.

Q.Is there room for a Veteran Solo Story Boss?
A.I don’t see why not, it would have to work differently compared to group mode as well as have its own achievements & rewards separate from group mode.

Q.Could ZOS make a new PvP Cyrodil map instance with Veteran Overland settings?
A.I don’t see why not, the questions would be; if players want that and how that could work with Imperial City?

Q.If Veteran mode in Overland doesn’t work exactly like Veteran dungeons & trials could it have a different name?
A.I used “normal” & “veteran” terminology to effectively communicate the idea.
Idea for new words
Normal setting = Adventurer
Veteran setting = Champion

Iccotak · June 2020

Other discussions about Harder Overland content
Just to list a few

Spoiler

coercer02neb18_ESO · June 2020

Haven’t read the entire post but would absolutely love an increased difficulty for overland content; don’t even care for rewards or anything like that, just want to feel a sense of challenge.

idk · June 2020

It would be nothing like dungeons and trials and the rewards should not be in-line with that. With the rewards suggests it makes it appear as though OP thinks this will be on par with vMA or something and it should not in any way. They are still trash mobs with very simple mechanics. Doubtful Zos will redesign the entire overland content to make the mechanics themselves more challenging for a more difficult setting. It will merely be TTK that changes, we do less damage as a percentage of their health and we take more damage from them.

Edit: If there is a difference in rewards it should be in quality only. Nothing for achievements as that is not what most people are focused on when they ask for greater difficulty.

xXMeowMeowXx · June 2020

Do Vet Trials and VetHM DLC dungeons. Granted the new trial is not that hard but it is still worth progressing on.

PvP for me, gives the perfect challenge. Being out numbered and things always changing up.

Just start a fresh account with no gear crafted from your main or gold given. You will still be better because of your experience but go for the hard stuff solo. Just wear mismatched scraps and have fun.

I know you’re just proposing the how.

But for me after all these years, I just want the performance to be better. Resources need to go there, especially for PvP.

Overland serves it’s purpose, as is.

Plus, most people have not even done the mass of harder achievements out there. That is why this is a moot issue to me, as were the other similar threads.

Nice presentation though

Iccotak · June 2020

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Do Vet Trials and VetHM DLC dungeons. Granted the new trial is not that hard but it is still worth progressing on.

PvP for me, gives the perfect challenge. Being out numbered and things always changing up.

Just start a fresh account with no gear crafted from your main or gold given. You will still be better because of your experience but go for the hard stuff solo. Just wear mismatched scraps and have fun.

I know you’re just proposing the how.

But for me after all these years, I just want the performance to be better. Resources need to go there, especially for PvP.

Overland serves it’s purpose, as is.

Plus, most people have not even done the mass of harder achievements out there. That is why this is a moot issue to me, as were the other similar threads.

Nice presentation though

I understand that players have performance issues with the game but that is not relevant to the discussion. Stay on topic please.

As for the "Self Nerf", I addressed that point in the Q&A at the end of the post.

Please make sure to read the Q&A at the end as it might answer some questions you may have after you’re finished reading.

Grandchamp1989 · June 2020

Very well thought out post OP. A vet overland doesn't take anything away from casuals, but does add more to hardcore players.

I'm all for a more challenging story mode and overworld content. When a goblin in "veteran fungal grotto 1" is tougher than a storymode endgame boss.. it's a bit tame lol.

There is a lot of hard content in the game from vet trials/dlc dungeon to solo vet dungeon and WB but it would be really nice to have an epic fight in the story mode worth remembering as long as it is soloable.

Thechuckage · June 2020

My only real quibble is with the removal of telegraphs, as they have been in place for all PvE content.

A larger, optional harder mode (not constrained to dungeons or raids) allowing for a much more open and free flowing adventure than the group content would be very welcome. Much more so than shooting oneself in the foot or shelling out more cash.

*Unless someone wants to buy that new account for me.

Taleof2Cities · June 2020

You're getting way ahead of yourself, @Iccotak.

The link you provided is a year old and doesn't say they're actively working on Veteran Overland content ... unless perhaps you provided the wrong link?

"So we have ideas on how to have difficulty settings for overland content, but it's not currently planned. It's a great idea."

idk · June 2020

Thechuckage wrote: »

My only real quibble is with the removal of telegraphs, as they have been in place for all PvE content.

A larger, optional harder mode (not constrained to dungeons or raids) allowing for a much more open and free flowing adventure than the group content would be very welcome. Much more so than shooting oneself in the foot or shelling out more cash.

*Unless someone wants to buy that new account for me.

iirc, people can already remove the telegraph markings if they so choose. So it is already an easy choice.

I really doubt Zos is considering such a formidable rework of the game as is being suggested in the OP. There is a much simpler and effective approach that would likely be the path if Zos every does start considering the general idea again.

Thechuckage · June 2020

Honestly this whole thing is more of a thought experiment and yes, doubt mightily it would ever see the light of game.

But it never hurts to dream.

TheNuminous1 · June 2020

Iccotak wrote: »

Other discussions about Harder Overland content
Just to list a few
Spoiler
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6788870#Comment_6788870

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526340/legendary-overland-difficulty-toggle-option/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/524584/why-is-this-game-so-easy/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6750634

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530402/there-is-too-much-separation-between-story-and-group-content

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/507695/a-zone-with-public-dungeon-difficulty

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/519603/eso-is-too-easy/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529668/expectations-trailer-hype-vs-reality-difficulty/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/524416/classic-tes-feature-difficulty-slider/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6761583

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532118/easy-normal-hard-difficulty-level-option

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/511873/sancre-tor-this-is-how-easy-the-game-has-become/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6595831

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6389888

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521439/zones-main-story-quest-bosses-needs-to-be-stronger/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/531898/a-new-player-feedback-eso-is-both-phenomenal-and-terrible/p1

What this tells me is its a highly sought after feature.

YstradClud · June 2020

It will never happen. There is not enough demand for it. Pretty much all the players I see doing overland are sub 50.

Darkenarlol · June 2020

at last a thread about vet difficulty without begging for moar shinies - just achieves/cosmetics

which i really appreciate alongside with well structured and presented ideas

but...the part about "new mechanics"...do you really think that zos gonna redo all zones/all bosses

with new mecs just for a small bunch of tryhards? sounds...unrealistic at least

btw i'll much more happy with new solo/duo arena for difficulty/ego pleasing

Hanokihs · June 2020

We've had vet-level overland content more than once, and it's been nerfed into the ground every time. It's just never as fun as people seem to think it'll be, and they aren't gonna implement big/interesting changes for such a small subset of the playerbase. If anything, they're trying to make the game easier and more accessible across the board.

highkingnm · June 2020

I agree with a vet mode but not one which mandates dungeon/trial level group co-ordination for questing. One of the reasons Craglorn struggled was the need to have group members at the same phase of the quest and the interest to do it. I can’t see enough people wanting to run quest bosses when the endgame raid population is already relatively limited compared to the overall population.

To me, higher health and damage in exchange for high material and item drop rates would be perfect. This scheme could have worked if ESO has been built from the ground up like this and encouraged enough hardcore players to make this kind of proposal operable. Instead we’re in a game where at least 60/70% of people I PUG dungeons with don’t even know how to interrupt or dodge roll.

I think this would be a great idea for a new game, but sadly not as a retrofitted solution.

Iccotak · June 2020

Just a reminder
1. This is a thought experiment of what they could do. Not a debate about whether or not they should add a hard mode for overland content.
It is understood that this is a massive concept and there are possible simpler solutions.

2. Some of the concerns & questions people have voiced so far were addressed in the Q&A section.
Points about Rewards & “Required Group Play” were answered there.

Back to the discussion!
Your points are appreciated. Thanks again for taking the time to read through the whole post and contributing to the discussion.
Hope it continues to be a constructive and civil conversation.

Olauron · June 2020

I already told everything what needs to be done. There is no reason to repeat myself.

aaisoaho · June 2020

Well, the original Craglorn was kinda like a vet overland, and we all know how it ended up - not enough players. For me, it was enjoyable.

Now, I was pleasantly surprised when I was doing the Blackreach public dungeon in the off-hour and faced the group boss solo. I wasn't really prepared and tought it would be similar to every other boss, but no. I died a couple of times and the fight required a little bit of tought process instead of a short rotation of annihilation. If there was ever going to be a vet overland/story content, I would prefer the difficulty to be on the level of that boss.

mocap · June 2020

since players base is very healthy for this moment, new vet instance would be nice. Though it sounds like back to pre-OT times.

Still, any personal in-game debufs is a thing. Negative food, food with Major/Minor debufs (can't be purged for the duration), or any variations of self Battle Spirit for overland.

Vrienda · June 2020

Completely against this so long as any form of reward is tied to it. Especially cosmetic rewards.

No thank you. Craglorn still gives me nightmares and the last thing I want is to hear dev time was wasted making an optional “Adventure Zone” version of the perfectly good regular zones. It’s bad enough we get two worthless dungeon DLC’s every year without potentially having a story DLC scrapped for this garbage.

Joinovikova · June 2020

coercer02neb18_ESO wrote: »

Haven’t read the entire post but would absolutely love an increased difficulty for overland content; don’t even care for rewards or anything like that, just want to feel a sense of challenge.

remove CP and use random green non set gear .. and u can have it..

Gythral · June 2020

Why
PC-EU is that most of the time, given how few imputs it responds to in a timely way

mocap · June 2020

Joinovikova wrote: »

remove CP and use random green non set gear .. and u can have it..

you can't. It takes a little longer to kill mobs (few seconds), but really nothing else.

YstradClud · June 2020

Iccotak wrote: »

Just a reminder
1. This is a thought experiment of what they could do. Not a debate about whether or not they should add a hard mode for overland content.
It is understood that this is a massive concept and there are possible simpler solutions.

As I said before most the players I see doing overland are sub 50s. I only have one character who is CP 300 + and I like helping them kill world bosses and clear delves. No need to separate us as they seem to enjoy having vets around and they often help me to kill world bosses that are too hard for me to solo as well.

crjs1 · June 2020

Craglorn showed us that mandated groups for quest content failed and was just frustrating. I am not opposed to vet instances but all story quests should be soloable and there should be no additional rewards.

Thechuckage · June 2020

I think part of the problem craglorn failed was overtuning. But now powercreep has gotten to the point people are soloing all sorts of different things.

At the very least scaling needs a second look.

codierussell · June 2020

Not that I disagree with the idea as a whole I just don't think it is worth the time in older zones. For a lot of players like myself, we have already done all that content and making it more challenging won't entice me to back and fight more bosses. The only real way would be to redo the overland content but have an incentive to do it. Perfected gear and gold gear may help but most overland gear is trash anyways.

If they can figure out a way to get me back to those zones it would be worth it but as of right now making overland stuff harder won't get more people playing the content.

Iccotak · June 2020

crjs1 wrote: »

Craglorn showed us that mandated groups for quest content failed and was just frustrating. I am not opposed to vet instances but all story quests should be soloable and there should be no additional rewards.

It’s a good thing that normal mode still provides an easy solo story experience

Also as mentioned in the Q&A

Q.Is there room for a Veteran Solo Story Boss?

A.I don’t see why not, it would have to work differently compared to group mode as well as have its own achievements & rewards separate from group mode.

No one is advocating that overland “forces” you to group up. Just that group is just as viable as solo

Iccotak · June 2020

mocap wrote: »

since players base is very healthy for this moment, new vet instance would be nice. Though it sounds like back to pre-OT times.

Still, any personal in-game debufs is a thing. Negative food, food with Major/Minor debufs (can't be purged for the duration), or any variations of self Battle Spirit for overland.

as I explained in Q&A, there are reasons why most players would not choose to use a debuff or self nerf nor do I think that is that good design as it doesn't address the issue. It'd be more like a band-aid solution

idk · June 2020

Iccotak wrote: »

Just a reminder
1. This is a thought experiment of what they could do. . . .
It is understood that this is a massive concept and there are possible simpler solutions.

Since it is a thought experiment then it makes sense other solutions would b part of the discussion. Otherwise, it is not a thought experiment outside of OP's thoughts.

Heck, the simpler ideas would make more sense to discuss. It is extremely unlikely that Zos would commit the resources and money to make such a rework most of the game considering the little benefit that would come from this. i think that is why this thread has not received much attention.

Just my thoughts.