A vast majority of players are asking to remove cast times

sweatapodimas

Please oh please read this ZOS, and the other past 100+ threads showing that the VAST majority of players want this reverted...

Those people that know computering and hate cast times please tag those devs like y'all do...

Gilvoth

BohnT2 wrote: »

Are the people saying light attack weaving isn't intended aware that Zos actively promotes it when you level up.

In a combat advice around lvl 40 they tell you that it is intended and that it's helpful.

light attack animation canceling is ok and hurts no one.
and thats where it should end.
no other animation canceling should happen.

AMeanOne

Cast times really suck the fun out of a fast fluid combat system. Like many others have said, if I wanted a slow boring combat system I'd play something else.

Kronuxx

Joy_Division wrote: »

Just because we can't exactly measure what every single ESO player thinking on this issue does not mean we throw our hands in the air and proclaim that there is no way to measure public opinion.

We could do a search on cast times and see what comes out. Here are the first two pages:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508920/please-remove-cast-times-of-ultimates - negative

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/491407/cast-time-on-ultimates-is-garbage - negative

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/488917/cast-times-on-ultimates ... "are simply horrible" - negative

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484409/cast-times-on-ultimates-should-not-go-live - negative

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484920/cast-timed-ultimates-discussion - negative

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/492754/cast-time-utimates-need-to-go - negative

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484238/cast-time-on-ultimates-feels-awful - negative

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/500055/cast-times-so-when-are-they-bieng-removed-from-ultimates - negative

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/491990/remove-ultimate-cast-times-for-men-taller-than-173-centimeters - negative

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/436792/cast-time-to-all-shields-not-just-specific-shields - neutral, asking for consistency.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/495644/cast-time-on-ultimates-worries-about-the-future-of-eso - negative

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484572/cast-time-for-ultimates - negative

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/501925/cast-time-on-ults - negative

Don't need a advanced degree in public relations to see a trend here.

Now, people love to sprout out, "But, but, that's just a small percentage of the community! You still can't prove what the majority of the people think!"

No, I can't. This is just circular "logic" to get us back to the point where we just throw our hands in the air because we can't ask every single person. People who abide by this "logic" should delete their forum account, never participate in a public survey, and just burn every book and study ever that endeavored to assess public opinion because they place zero value in them and will never accept their outcome (unless, I am guessing, the outcome matches what they want to hear.) Seriously, if people are going to disregard forum feedback as a legitimate measure of public opinion, why do they offer their opinion on these forums and expect me to value it as representative? Either these forums are indicators of public opinion or they are not.

I mained a class once full of cast-times (templars) and because people associated me with them, they'd tell, ask, and beg me to get ZoS to get rid of them. Of the dozens and dozens of templars who gave me feedback, *not one* said, "Hey Joy, I know a lot of folks on the forums hate cast times, but I've got to say they add an interesting element to the game and I kind of like them."

When I sat in Rep meetings the amount of disconnect on this issue was alarming. I still remember one meeting when we were discussing sorcerer's (bad) resource management and the devs asking us point blank why sorcerers did not use their Dark Exchange skill in their rotations if they needed resources. If you have to ask why players aren't using a skill, that should be a pretty obvious indicator that the players either don't like it or it's sub-optimal choice!

Well put. Adding in my voice to say I also hate cast times, especially in ESO's current performance state. And before anyone says "but they are gonna fix their performance", two things to note here. 1) Even if ZOS somehow manages this feat (considering their track record I am skeptical as you should be to), slowing down combat is never fun because then it becomes less responsive to your measured attacks that you thought out and 2) Did I mention ZOS' track record for improving performance?

katorga

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

I think the original poster's thesis is completely wrong. The majority want cast times, cooldowns, travel times, spamming penalties, and other variations that obtain the same outcome.

The streamers, most dedicated players, end game players are a minority of the population. The majority is bent on making the game as easy and uncomplicated as possible.

Disagree.The casual player(the majority in this game) don't actually care most of them are just doing overland content,leveling character or normal dungeon anyway.
They don't need or use Animation Cancel and don't care about it,the forum poll show that many people casual or not don't like it.

The few that want cast time don't even know how animation cancel actually work,just read one of the post of the guy who spawn in every thread where the word "cast time on ultimate" show up,people like him actually think animation cancel let you ignore the GCD and fire 3-4 skill at the same time.

The percentages are the same no matter how you subdivide the player base. Of those who do PVP, the majority run around with the herd spamming whatever button their fingers happen to hit, thinking they are amazing and unable to fathom what just happened to them. Only a small percentage goes whole hog and masters every detail of the game.

It has been that way for forever in MMO's. The percentage is like Planck's Constant. It never changes.

FWIW, I'm not in the group that masters the game, but jeez I hate cast times. Especially subsecond ones that feel like you got interrupted.

FrankonPC

Tell me, how does one react to something you cannot see or hear? Ill wait.

Sorry for keeping you waiting. Most classes have extremely predictable burst. Whether it's the timed delay on curse, purifying or power of the light, blastbones, or warden sub assault, there's a timer for when this fires. In this way you can already predict when the other part of the burst is coming in. Most players also already give out indicators for when they're going to go offensive(cycling offensive buffs or offensive debuffs, full heavy attacks for more weapon procs etc).

You also already have global cooldowns on each skill, meaning there is a time before you can fire another ability. If you're getting hit by multiple skills at the same time, it's more likely that it's cyrodiil performance and latency than animation cancelling.

Good players could ALREADY respond to incoming ultimates due to the queues their opponents were giving them.

FrankonPC

katorga wrote: »

I think the original poster's thesis is completely wrong. The majority want cast times, cooldowns, travel times, spamming penalties, and other variations that obtain the same outcome.

The streamers, most dedicated players, end game players are a minority of the population. The majority is bent on making the game as easy and uncomplicated as possible.

Of course it's a small sample size relative to the overall population of the game, but it's a much larger sample size than the average amount of posters in the PTS, and it's a pretty overwhelming vote for "cast times are bad"

JanTanhide

Cast times should be removed. Definitely. It ruins fluidity of combat and makes the game clunky. And now ZOS wants to add cast times to more skills?

Geezus, wake up ZOS. Stop ruining this game.

Emma_Overload

sweatapodimas wrote: »

Please oh please read this ZOS, and the other past 100+ threads showing that the VAST majority of players want this reverted...

Those people that know computering and hate cast times please tag those devs like y'all do...

LMAO at this stamina supremacist propaganda!

Magicka users don't comment on these posts because they don't even know what you are complaining about! How can we have an opinion on the tiny little cast times on your instant burst ultimates when we don't even have instant ultimates?

Imagine if Dawnbreaker took 3 seconds to land and made a nice big ring around the target letting him know it was coming... just like Meteor? THEN you would have something to complain about!

Rianai

There are instant magicka ultimates and there used to be even more before the cast times got added. It is not a mag vs stam issue.

Btw, even tho meteor isn't instant, a delay is not the same as a cast time.

FrankonPC

Emma_Overload wrote: »

sweatapodimas wrote: »

Please oh please read this ZOS, and the other past 100+ threads showing that the VAST majority of players want this reverted...

Those people that know computering and hate cast times please tag those devs like y'all do...

LMAO at this stamina supremacist propaganda!

Magicka users don't comment on these posts because they don't even know what you are complaining about! How can we have an opinion on the tiny little cast times on your instant burst ultimates when we don't even have instant ultimates?

Crescent Sweep

Nerftheforums

Adding this to the discussion, worth watching to understand why they are such a big problem, in case the other 2048392084 videos about it have been ignored https://youtu.be/m2OIJBCbr_g

MCBIZZLE300

Totally agree with this statement, remove them all!

Strider__Roshin

It's obvious that this was a bad decision. If ZOS doesn't revert the change it's a clear message that ZOS doesn't only ignore feedback, but also they lack the humility to admit that they were wrong.

pieratsos

Chelo wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

idk wrote: »

While I am not a fan of the cast times that have been added I have to ask how OP quantifies a vast majority of players? I am pretty certain none of us can gleam into the minds of a majority of the player base and people make comments of such measurements either based on comments of a very small portion of the player base or suggest such things in order to inflate their opinion in a manner Zos can probably see through.

All I am suggesting is make a reasonable well worded argument vs inflating it with suggestions Zos knows we have no way of knowing.

You keep raising the same argument in every thread but you are completely missing the point in pretty much every single thread. The term vast majority is used to emphasize the actual point of the argument. In this case, that cast times need to go. Not to quantify the amount of players that support that argument.

By that logic, "the vast majority" could be just 1 guy looool hahahaha 🤣

Nope. Not even close to what I said. But nice strawman right there. Better luck next time

pieratsos

TheFM wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

From my personal perspective it´s very clear that players that can and do articulate feedback or adress their concerns in such a way like this topc are not zos target group when doing changes to the game.
They cater to people who spew 3 lines of noncoherent nonsense about things they never even experienced firsthand nor do they really understand what´s happening.
It´s my personal opinion that 80% of changes cater to the latter kind of players bc zos believes they have to cater to a super casual target audience as they believe there´s more money to be made with those players.
The issue is - those ppl will play either way bc they´re incapable of analying gameplay in the first place and as a consequence will never stop spewing nonsense as long as they enter competetive situations with other players.
i´m waiting for the day where a dev realizes that you can not balance for the people living their happy life on mount stupid
even if you have only those people left they´d still complain bc everyone of them believes themselves as gods only child - you´d have to make the game a pure 100% failsafe singleplayer experience to appeal to them

anyway - my personal take away out of this:
to make your feedback be heared just repeat it often and loud and DONT elaborate on why you want sth
just say that you want
or that sth is broken and needs nurfed

The ones incapable of reactive gameplay are throwing shade at the ones ok with that , that's hilarious.

I´ve posted numerous times that a better solution would have been to give the skills a minimum animation/traveltime rather than a casttime - like all ranged skills have varying between 200 and 800ms.
This would have made the skills not clunky yet enable reactive gameplay.

Apart from that i don´t use any of the skill that received a casttime - yet i still disagree with it from only being on the receiving end.
This because the implementation is so slow and clunky that it´s not actually reactive gameplay from my perspective but rather a failsafe for anyone half aware of what´s going on on their screen.

I have nothing against being able to react when i read the fight well.
I think it´s absolutely hilarious that i can evade/block skills atm with not having my hand on the keyboard mouse at the time i get attacked.

Having someone use an onslaught from stealth and there being no sound or animation, and they still get the damage is toxic gameplay. It's not clunky at all, people have just been spoiled with the fact that they got easy kills before on people that couldn't even react to the situation. If there was a cast time for ultis only while on steatlh, that would be ok too, barring that tho, it needs to stay. You cannot be aware of what you cannot see or hear in a video game. There is no smell o vision yet.

So what you are saying is that ganking is toxic gameplay therefore make combat clunky as a band aid fix instead of you know, maybe address ganking specifically?

Rianai

pieratsos wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

From my personal perspective it´s very clear that players that can and do articulate feedback or adress their concerns in such a way like this topc are not zos target group when doing changes to the game.
They cater to people who spew 3 lines of noncoherent nonsense about things they never even experienced firsthand nor do they really understand what´s happening.
It´s my personal opinion that 80% of changes cater to the latter kind of players bc zos believes they have to cater to a super casual target audience as they believe there´s more money to be made with those players.
The issue is - those ppl will play either way bc they´re incapable of analying gameplay in the first place and as a consequence will never stop spewing nonsense as long as they enter competetive situations with other players.
i´m waiting for the day where a dev realizes that you can not balance for the people living their happy life on mount stupid
even if you have only those people left they´d still complain bc everyone of them believes themselves as gods only child - you´d have to make the game a pure 100% failsafe singleplayer experience to appeal to them

anyway - my personal take away out of this:
to make your feedback be heared just repeat it often and loud and DONT elaborate on why you want sth
just say that you want
or that sth is broken and needs nurfed

The ones incapable of reactive gameplay are throwing shade at the ones ok with that , that's hilarious.

I´ve posted numerous times that a better solution would have been to give the skills a minimum animation/traveltime rather than a casttime - like all ranged skills have varying between 200 and 800ms.
This would have made the skills not clunky yet enable reactive gameplay.

Apart from that i don´t use any of the skill that received a casttime - yet i still disagree with it from only being on the receiving end.
This because the implementation is so slow and clunky that it´s not actually reactive gameplay from my perspective but rather a failsafe for anyone half aware of what´s going on on their screen.

I have nothing against being able to react when i read the fight well.
I think it´s absolutely hilarious that i can evade/block skills atm with not having my hand on the keyboard mouse at the time i get attacked.

Having someone use an onslaught from stealth and there being no sound or animation, and they still get the damage is toxic gameplay. It's not clunky at all, people have just been spoiled with the fact that they got easy kills before on people that couldn't even react to the situation. If there was a cast time for ultis only while on steatlh, that would be ok too, barring that tho, it needs to stay. You cannot be aware of what you cannot see or hear in a video game. There is no smell o vision yet.

So what you are saying is that ganking is toxic gameplay therefore make combat clunky as a band aid fix instead of you know, maybe address ganking specifically?

But ... but ... that might hurt those poor snipers. Better adress those nasty oneshoty with lacerate or soul siphon directly.

TheFM

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

It's obvious that this was a bad decision. If ZOS doesn't revert the change it's a clear message that ZOS doesn't only ignore feedback, but also they lack the humility to admit that they were wrong.

Or they just know better in this case and don't listen to people who want something else than reactionary gameplay.

TheFM

Rianai wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

From my personal perspective it´s very clear that players that can and do articulate feedback or adress their concerns in such a way like this topc are not zos target group when doing changes to the game.
They cater to people who spew 3 lines of noncoherent nonsense about things they never even experienced firsthand nor do they really understand what´s happening.
It´s my personal opinion that 80% of changes cater to the latter kind of players bc zos believes they have to cater to a super casual target audience as they believe there´s more money to be made with those players.
The issue is - those ppl will play either way bc they´re incapable of analying gameplay in the first place and as a consequence will never stop spewing nonsense as long as they enter competetive situations with other players.
i´m waiting for the day where a dev realizes that you can not balance for the people living their happy life on mount stupid
even if you have only those people left they´d still complain bc everyone of them believes themselves as gods only child - you´d have to make the game a pure 100% failsafe singleplayer experience to appeal to them

anyway - my personal take away out of this:
to make your feedback be heared just repeat it often and loud and DONT elaborate on why you want sth
just say that you want
or that sth is broken and needs nurfed

The ones incapable of reactive gameplay are throwing shade at the ones ok with that , that's hilarious.

I´ve posted numerous times that a better solution would have been to give the skills a minimum animation/traveltime rather than a casttime - like all ranged skills have varying between 200 and 800ms.
This would have made the skills not clunky yet enable reactive gameplay.

Apart from that i don´t use any of the skill that received a casttime - yet i still disagree with it from only being on the receiving end.
This because the implementation is so slow and clunky that it´s not actually reactive gameplay from my perspective but rather a failsafe for anyone half aware of what´s going on on their screen.

I have nothing against being able to react when i read the fight well.
I think it´s absolutely hilarious that i can evade/block skills atm with not having my hand on the keyboard mouse at the time i get attacked.

Having someone use an onslaught from stealth and there being no sound or animation, and they still get the damage is toxic gameplay. It's not clunky at all, people have just been spoiled with the fact that they got easy kills before on people that couldn't even react to the situation. If there was a cast time for ultis only while on steatlh, that would be ok too, barring that tho, it needs to stay. You cannot be aware of what you cannot see or hear in a video game. There is no smell o vision yet.

So what you are saying is that ganking is toxic gameplay therefore make combat clunky as a band aid fix instead of you know, maybe address ganking specifically?

But ... but ... that might hurt those poor snipers. Better adress those nasty oneshoty with lacerate or soul siphon directly.

When you run out of arguments you start patronising. Gg.

Drdeath20

Certain skills should have cast times when its merited.

pieratsos

TheFM wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

It's obvious that this was a bad decision. If ZOS doesn't revert the change it's a clear message that ZOS doesn't only ignore feedback, but also they lack the humility to admit that they were wrong.

Or they just know better in this case and don't listen to people who want something else than reactionary gameplay.

Reactionary gameplay is good and people should have ques to react but if u are basing that concept on less than half a second cast times then u screwed up big time. At their current iteration, those cast times, the only thing they achieve is making combat clunky, not making combat reactive nor do they give time to people to react.

TheFM

pieratsos wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

It's obvious that this was a bad decision. If ZOS doesn't revert the change it's a clear message that ZOS doesn't only ignore feedback, but also they lack the humility to admit that they were wrong.

Or they just know better in this case and don't listen to people who want something else than reactionary gameplay.

Reactionary gameplay is good and people should have ques to react but if u are basing that concept on less than half a second cast times then u screwed up big time. At their current iteration, those cast times, the only thing they achieve is making combat clunky, not making combat reactive nor do they give time to people to react.

I have plenty of time to react when I see ultis cast now, as it should be, and if I don't pay attention, I still die, as it should be. You however cannot react to something you cannot percieve, it's basic physics.

pieratsos

TheFM wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

It's obvious that this was a bad decision. If ZOS doesn't revert the change it's a clear message that ZOS doesn't only ignore feedback, but also they lack the humility to admit that they were wrong.

Or they just know better in this case and don't listen to people who want something else than reactionary gameplay.

Reactionary gameplay is good and people should have ques to react but if u are basing that concept on less than half a second cast times then u screwed up big time. At their current iteration, those cast times, the only thing they achieve is making combat clunky, not making combat reactive nor do they give time to people to react.

I have plenty of time to react when I see ultis cast now, as it should be, and if I don't pay attention, I still die, as it should be. You however cannot react to something you cannot percieve, it's basic physics.

It's called anticipation and knowing the game. When you see a warden sub lining up, you should know what is coming for example. In fact that's what you are prety much doing now. Not actually seeing the ult beforehand and then reacting. And since you are talking about physics, you should probably know that is dumb to base the combat system around less than half a second reaction times.

And if you are going to implement a cast time on abilities, the abilities have to be designed with cast time in mind. Those ults were designed as instant. Slapping a cast time on them changes their design. They didn't implement counterplay. They essentially just nerfed instant burst ults and made combat clunky. And ironically even the reason they did this, is a total failure.

TheFM

pieratsos wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

It's obvious that this was a bad decision. If ZOS doesn't revert the change it's a clear message that ZOS doesn't only ignore feedback, but also they lack the humility to admit that they were wrong.

Or they just know better in this case and don't listen to people who want something else than reactionary gameplay.

Reactionary gameplay is good and people should have ques to react but if u are basing that concept on less than half a second cast times then u screwed up big time. At their current iteration, those cast times, the only thing they achieve is making combat clunky, not making combat reactive nor do they give time to people to react.

I have plenty of time to react when I see ultis cast now, as it should be, and if I don't pay attention, I still die, as it should be. You however cannot react to something you cannot percieve, it's basic physics.

It's called anticipation and knowing the game. When you see a warden sub lining up, you should know what is coming for example. In fact that's what you are prety much doing now. Not actually seeing the ult beforehand and then reacting. And since you are talking about physics, you should probably know that is dumb to base the combat system around less than half a second reaction times.

And if you are going to implement a cast time on abilities, the abilities have to be designed with cast time in mind. Those ults were designed as instant. Slapping a cast time on them changes their design. They didn't implement counterplay. They essentially just nerfed instant burst ults and made combat clunky. And ironically even the reason they did this, is a total failure.

A low reaction time is better than none. And there is nothing you can say that would change my mind. Cast times on ultimates are fine, abilities should not do damage before they hit, that's just toxic gameplay. And I am 100 percent fine with the cast times. And clearly some agree, as well as the Devs.

MehrunesFlagon

TheFM wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

NB has been really hurt by the cast time change. Even before cast times were added it was usually possible to avoid an incap after a fear but now it's trivial to avoid an incap. I don't even like NB's and think they deserve to have their class ult land more often, especially after Defile got removed and cost got increased.

Also @Joy_Division you delivered a Critical Hit above that was both factually accurate and entertaining to read. Thanks for the chuckle.

Nightblades were just spoiled that they could get free kills before. you should -never- be able to kill someone before they can see or hear it in this game, there is 0 counterplay

ElvenVeil wrote: »

one could also ask for a bit more lag in cyrodiil to give enough time for counter play. In all the time I have played I have never heard anyone being happy for cast times, but zos has just introduced a ton of bad decisions, which means the game today just doesn't work well - performance is terrible and all the skill changes, such as cast times and useless skill lines, turn the game into a boring mess.

and if one doesn't believe that is the general opinion just look at the amount of players left in the pvp campaigns. in the past you would have 3 constantly pop locked cp campaigns, and many people in queue. back then people still enjoyed the game. A bit over a year ago you would have 1 pop locked campaign. Now (ofc not with event taking place right now) , you have a hard time reaching even high pop in a campaign.

Happy about cast times here. And quite a few on the forums were as well, they just dont come into these threads becaue they know its just gonna be a bunch of people that want to be able to kill others befor they can respond patting each other on the back.

sweatapodimas wrote: »

Yeah this was a terrible idea. Play in so clunky both in PVE and PVP.

Counterplay isnt clunky, its how the game is supposed to be played. You cannot counter what you cannot see or hear.

FrankonPC wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Since i guess you all just wanna argue about semantics and be pedantic lets circle back to the actual issue

animation cancelling and instant cast abilities together should never continue the damage if the are cancelled.

No other mmorpg or rpg or PvP or AvA has this where you are attacking something and the block, cancelling the animation of the attack to block and the attack still goes through.

You know what has that? Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Tekken (kinda) etc.

These are because you are fighting 1 player and its expected for you to be predictive in combat. Eso is on paper a reactive game, sure you can be predictive and that will give you an advantage, but right now as it is the game punishes reactive gameplay and rewards predictive.

Animation cancelling in all forms needs to exist, even those who don't understand it and call it cheating would probably not like this game if you couldn't stop your channel to block or dodge, BUT

There is no reason that the damage portion of the skill should still go through when the animation is cancelled.

If you are lobbying for this then you are lobbying for making this a fighting game like Street Fighter, not trying to make it a balanced experience for AvAvA or 4v4v4 or small scale v 30 whatever.

You can easily argue that the reason this MMO is better than others is because of their reactive combat. If I wanted to play something slower, I'd go to WOW or Final Fantasy. Why would you want ESO to be like their competitors when in this way they're superior?

Tell me, how does one react to something you cannot see or hear? Ill wait.

The last time I was ganked to death without being able to see or hear what was going on was like 2017 when camo hunter was bugged and long before ZOS nerfed damage from stealth.

This issue was solved years ago. If anyone is still stuggling Vs. ganking NBs, that's is absolutely a L2P issue - especially in the defensive meta we've had for at least a year now, and they are deluding themselves if they think the chief reason they are dying is because they didn't have that few hundred miliseconds to dodge that Incap or Dawnbreaker.

As far as reacting, it's called anticipation, experience, and not being a potato. If you step into the octagon Vs a halfway decent MMA fighter, you aren;t getting all those obvious cues of what your going to get hit with, yet martial arts fighting is still a thing and still a legit test of fighting skill. Back when NBs were actually good, Incap cost 50, always stunned, always defiled, with no cast time, the ones who weren't as skilled or experienced still lost to my mediocre templar. Some people just want ZoS to hold their hand the entire game; they'll come onto these forums just posting death re-caps, whining how abilities are "over-performing," and insist that some class or mechanic needs a nerf. The end result of all of this is to suck the life out of what made this game fun - interesting things we could do with our characters and face paced fluid combat - and these people are still nothing but potatoes in Cyrodiil.

Yet you

MusCanus wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

I think the original poster's thesis is completely wrong. The majority want cast times, cooldowns, travel times, spamming penalties, and other variations that obtain the same outcome.

The streamers, most dedicated players, end game players are a minority of the population. The majority is bent on making the game as easy and uncomplicated as possible.

Yet this majority is still getting trashed by the minority despite all those nerfs. They can't understand what went wrong so they come to the forums again asking for more nerfs. All because they can't accept the simple fact they're just bad.

Actually I hardly ever get banked now cuz I can actually react , ya know, something the Devs said they wanted.?

You could react before.

yodased

React from prediction isn't reacting it's predicting and "knowing the game" is now required to anticipate every specs combos?

So barrier of entry to PvP is you must memorize the combos of every possible burst, how they line up that burst and recognize that before they begin since as you all have stated a potato isnt getting out of the burst window if its lines up already.

Good luck selling that to a developer who wants to lower the ceiling and raise the floor.

Just because you put in 4+ years of practice in something doesnt make that the best way to do it.

I personally dont care either way although I've been poked in this thread like im advocating something.

If they change things i will adapt or i will stop playing. It's not that big of a deal in the end.

Joy_Division

yodased wrote: »

React from prediction isn't reacting it's predicting and "knowing the game" is now required to anticipate every specs combos?

So barrier of entry to PvP is you must memorize the combos of every possible burst, how they line up that burst and recognize that before they begin since as you all have stated a potato isnt getting out of the burst window if its lines up already.

Good luck selling that to a developer who wants to lower the ceiling and raise the floor.

Just because you put in 4+ years of practice in something doesnt make that the best way to do it.

I personally dont care either way although I've been poked in this thread like im advocating something.

If they change things i will adapt or i will stop playing. It's not that big of a deal in the end.

Every spec combo? Nothing so dramatic.

The reality of this game since 2015 is that if your character is under 50% health, you're in danger of dying in a single global cooldown to an opponent that knows what they are doing. It's less about predicting exactly what is coming and more about taking a defensive posture and trying to limit the numerous ways you can die in that single global cooldown. I will dodge-roll, vamp mist, block cast a heal/shield, stun, do something such that my opponent is incapable of killing me in that one global cooldown. This does not require physic abilities or 4 years of PvP experience. Most people who are moderately self-reflexive figure this out pretty quickly when they PvP in just about any format aside from Stack on Crown.

Most games I have played do not require my opponent to play with their cards face down on the table so I know exactly what their next move will be. I'm not sure why all of a sudden this is some prerequisite for strategy or fantasy games to be "fair." The original Dawnbreaker had a cast-time and ZOS got rid of it because it was terrible. Now all of a sudden it needs one? This isn't vision, it isn't direction, it's just indecision and trying to appease complaints, many of them based on ignorance by people who think macros and animation canceling allow players to override the global cooldown in the game.

What the "lower the ceiling, raise the floor" crowd does not understand is that changes do not effect players equally. Whenever ZOS does something to make it more difficult to kill and easier to survive, the more experienced and skilled players are going to be able to take advantage of them more than the potatoes. A potato would be better served with an instant cast dawnbreaker because the only way their going to beat a better player is by a lucky combo and that's much more likely to happen by restricting the time and ability the better player has to avoid that Dawnbreaker. The end result of all this lower the floor "logic" is to make it such that we're right back to where we were pre-Morrowind, when ZOS was flooded with complaints about players who are unkillable who can shrug off a dozen potatoes hacking away at them. How is this direction? Now the dozen potatoes are spamming overnerfed offensive abilities and ultimates that are easier to avoid, and walk away feeling the player must have Cheat Engine installed.

pieratsos

TheFM wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

It's obvious that this was a bad decision. If ZOS doesn't revert the change it's a clear message that ZOS doesn't only ignore feedback, but also they lack the humility to admit that they were wrong.

Or they just know better in this case and don't listen to people who want something else than reactionary gameplay.

Reactionary gameplay is good and people should have ques to react but if u are basing that concept on less than half a second cast times then u screwed up big time. At their current iteration, those cast times, the only thing they achieve is making combat clunky, not making combat reactive nor do they give time to people to react.

I have plenty of time to react when I see ultis cast now, as it should be, and if I don't pay attention, I still die, as it should be. You however cannot react to something you cannot percieve, it's basic physics.

It's called anticipation and knowing the game. When you see a warden sub lining up, you should know what is coming for example. In fact that's what you are prety much doing now. Not actually seeing the ult beforehand and then reacting. And since you are talking about physics, you should probably know that is dumb to base the combat system around less than half a second reaction times.

And if you are going to implement a cast time on abilities, the abilities have to be designed with cast time in mind. Those ults were designed as instant. Slapping a cast time on them changes their design. They didn't implement counterplay. They essentially just nerfed instant burst ults and made combat clunky. And ironically even the reason they did this, is a total failure.

A low reaction time is better than none. And there is nothing you can say that would change my mind. Cast times on ultimates are fine, abilities should not do damage before they hit, that's just toxic gameplay. And I am 100 percent fine with the cast times. And clearly some agree, as well as the Devs.

Except you are not reacting because of that half a second cast time genius. That was the point. And i know i wont change ur mind. You dont seem to be knowledgable enough to understand the combat and what those changes actually do and you like ZOS holding ur hand instead of making u l2p. And i know the devs agree with you. That is because time and time again, they proved that they are clueless when it comes to their game.

TheBonesXXX

Nerftheforums wrote: »

You say you started listening yo your player base after 5 years. Why won't you listen on basic stuff like NOT (NOT, i repeat, NOT) make combat clunkier? If so many people are asking to remove them, why the hell are you adding them to even more skills? Gosh we can't even ani cancel properly on pts! What the hell are doing guys?
Idk if you lost it in the process, but the goal here is to have people have more fun and improve the game so you get more money. Radically changing a 5yo product that people got so used to, will obtain the exact opposite.
See you in update 26, hopefully...

The cast times were added to reflect how you properly see information. Animations are necessary visual indicators.

The amount of people who don't know how their eyes and ears process information astounds me.

FrankonPC

yodased wrote: »

React from prediction isn't reacting it's predicting and "knowing the game" is now required to anticipate every specs combos?

So barrier of entry to PvP is you must memorize the combos of every possible burst, how they line up that burst and recognize that before they begin since as you all have stated a potato isnt getting out of the burst window if its lines up already.

Good luck selling that to a developer who wants to lower the ceiling and raise the floor.

Just because you put in 4+ years of practice in something doesnt make that the best way to do it.

I personally dont care either way although I've been poked in this thread like im advocating something.

If they change things i will adapt or i will stop playing. It's not that big of a deal in the end.

Knowing the game is a pre-requisite for being good on literally every quality game out there. "Knowing the game" will allow you to play better defensively.

As I said, competent players can go on for 20+ minutes fighting each other and never get an edge in currently because of the cast times and lag.

There is a 1 second global cool-down on each ability already, do you really need more reaction time than that? Anyone that gets to half health knows that they need to go defensive already.