Cast times on ultimates should not go live

React

Death Stroke & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities to sync up with their animations.
Dawnbreaker & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
Berserker Strike & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
Soul Shred & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities.
Lacerate & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities, rather than the 500ms delay they had before.

These changes should not be allowed to go live. ESO combat is fast paced, and creating burst combos in 2019 takes more precision timing and player skill than it EVER has. Adding a cast time to some of the only instant-damage ults, after YEARS of players adapting their playstyles and honing their animation cancelling skills to better use these ults, is a terrible idea.

On live currently, the unmorphed version of dawn breaker has a short cast time. It feels terrible. The animation feels clunky and delayed, the cone targeting does not feel accurate at all as the damage itself doesn't register in line with the ability use, and it is all around a worthless skill. This change is on par with the ward cast-time change we ALMOST had several patches ago. Dawnbreaker is already an ability that seems to suffer from severe targeting issues with an instant usage on console, and I foresee this cast time making it near impossible to consistently land in actual PVP encounters. Additionally, with soul harvest/incap and berserker strike being SINGLE TARGET+DODGEABLE, having a cast time on them is going to make avoiding them a joke. Soul tether is another ability with a strange hitbox, that will likely suffer severely from this change. Nobody uses lacerate, but now nobody will either.

There isn't even a developer note explaining why this change was made or what the justification was, other than "This change is to help high impact abilities sync up better with their animations". The animation is the LAST THING that pvp players care about, hence the only practice that separates lower skilled players from higher skilled ones. ANIMATION CANCELLING. The counterplay to instant damage burst ultimates is to AVOID letting yourself get into burst range, which has already been made as easy as it ever has been with the ridiculous amount of CP, mitigation, and health available in this game. This is a silly, hand-holding, noob-catering change that has no place at all in the fast paced environment that is ESO pvp.

susmitds

Agreed

Insco851

Remember when Merciless bow proc had a 400ms cast time and EVERYONE could dodge it? Thumbless

Now it’s on a bunch of ultis... stun>break>dodge roll is MUCH QUICKER THAN 400ms. Ask any mnb that’s played in the last 6 months.

React

Insco851 wrote: »

Remember when Merciless bow proc had a 400ms cast time and EVERYONE could dodge it? Thumbless

Now it’s on a bunch of ultis... stun>break>dodge roll is MUCH QUICKER THAN 400ms. Ask any mnb that’s played in the last 6 months.

Yep. Merciless was so easy to dodge before this patch it was a joke. Literally any player with one thumb could break free and dodge faster than you could fear -> bow, and it made the class feel terrible. Any burst ability that was designed as an instant one but then has had a cast time addded has turned out terrible. I don't know what they are thinking with this change, and yet there are so many strictly casual or inexperienced players defending it as a "counterplay" change. As if any of these abilities even hit hard enough to burst most of the ridiculously tank, heal-y, or high health having players in cyrodiil.

leepalmer95

Liam12548 wrote: »

Death Stroke & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities to sync up with their animations.
Dawnbreaker & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
Berserker Strike & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
Soul Shred & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities.
Lacerate & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities, rather than the 500ms delay they had before.

These changes should not be allowed to go live. ESO combat is fast paced, and creating burst combos in 2019 takes more precision timing and player skill than it EVER has. Adding a cast time to some of the only instant-damage ults, after YEARS of players adapting their playstyles and honing their animation cancelling skills to better use these ults, is a terrible idea.

On live currently, the unmorphed version of dawn breaker has a short cast time. It feels terrible. The animation feels clunky and delayed, the cone targeting does not feel accurate at all as the damage itself doesn't register in line with the ability use, and it is all around a worthless skill. This change is on par with the ward cast-time change we ALMOST had several patches ago. Dawnbreaker is already an ability that seems to suffer from severe targeting issues with an instant usage on console, and I foresee this cast time making it near impossible to consistently land in actual PVP encounters. Additionally, with soul harvest/incap and berserker strike being SINGLE TARGET+DODGEABLE, having a cast time on them is going to make avoiding them a joke. Soul tether is another ability with a strange hitbox, that will likely suffer severely from this change. Nobody uses lacerate, but now nobody will either.

There isn't even a developer note explaining why this change was made or what the justification was, other than "This change is to help high impact abilities sync up better with their animations". The animation is the LAST THING that pvp players care about, hence the only practice that separates lower skilled players from higher skilled ones. ANIMATION CANCELLING. The counterplay to instant damage burst ultimates is to AVOID letting yourself get into burst range, which has already been made as easy as it ever has been with the ridiculous amount of CP, mitigation, and health available in this game. This is a silly, hand-holding, noob-catering change that has no place at all in the fast paced environment that is ESO pvp.

Its because in 2019 there are some forum warriors still calling animation cancelling cheating and are for some reason incapable or simply too lazy to learn it.

Vortigaunt

Agree. @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler

RighteousBacon

Yes

Vapirko

+1 for not letting this go live please. It severely hampers the flow of combat.

eso_lags

Liam12548 wrote: »

Death Stroke & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities to sync up with their animations.
Dawnbreaker & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
Berserker Strike & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
Soul Shred & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities.
Lacerate & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities, rather than the 500ms delay they had before.

These changes should not be allowed to go live. ESO combat is fast paced, and creating burst combos in 2019 takes more precision timing and player skill than it EVER has. Adding a cast time to some of the only instant-damage ults, after YEARS of players adapting their playstyles and honing their animation cancelling skills to better use these ults, is a terrible idea.

On live currently, the unmorphed version of dawn breaker has a short cast time. It feels terrible. The animation feels clunky and delayed, the cone targeting does not feel accurate at all as the damage itself doesn't register in line with the ability use, and it is all around a worthless skill. This change is on par with the ward cast-time change we ALMOST had several patches ago. Dawnbreaker is already an ability that seems to suffer from severe targeting issues with an instant usage on console, and I foresee this cast time making it near impossible to consistently land in actual PVP encounters. Additionally, with soul harvest/incap and berserker strike being SINGLE TARGET+DODGEABLE, having a cast time on them is going to make avoiding them a joke. Soul tether is another ability with a strange hitbox, that will likely suffer severely from this change. Nobody uses lacerate, but now nobody will either.

There isn't even a developer note explaining why this change was made or what the justification was, other than "This change is to help high impact abilities sync up better with their animations". The animation is the LAST THING that pvp players care about, hence the only practice that separates lower skilled players from higher skilled ones. ANIMATION CANCELLING. The counterplay to instant damage burst ultimates is to AVOID letting yourself get into burst range, which has already been made as easy as it ever has been with the ridiculous amount of CP, mitigation, and health available in this game. This is a silly, hand-holding, noob-catering change that has no place at all in the fast paced environment that is ESO pvp.

its *** awful

React

eso_lags wrote: »

Liam12548 wrote: »

Death Stroke & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities to sync up with their animations.
Dawnbreaker & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
Berserker Strike & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
Soul Shred & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities.
Lacerate & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities, rather than the 500ms delay they had before.

These changes should not be allowed to go live. ESO combat is fast paced, and creating burst combos in 2019 takes more precision timing and player skill than it EVER has. Adding a cast time to some of the only instant-damage ults, after YEARS of players adapting their playstyles and honing their animation cancelling skills to better use these ults, is a terrible idea.

On live currently, the unmorphed version of dawn breaker has a short cast time. It feels terrible. The animation feels clunky and delayed, the cone targeting does not feel accurate at all as the damage itself doesn't register in line with the ability use, and it is all around a worthless skill. This change is on par with the ward cast-time change we ALMOST had several patches ago. Dawnbreaker is already an ability that seems to suffer from severe targeting issues with an instant usage on console, and I foresee this cast time making it near impossible to consistently land in actual PVP encounters. Additionally, with soul harvest/incap and berserker strike being SINGLE TARGET+DODGEABLE, having a cast time on them is going to make avoiding them a joke. Soul tether is another ability with a strange hitbox, that will likely suffer severely from this change. Nobody uses lacerate, but now nobody will either.

There isn't even a developer note explaining why this change was made or what the justification was, other than "This change is to help high impact abilities sync up better with their animations". The animation is the LAST THING that pvp players care about, hence the only practice that separates lower skilled players from higher skilled ones. ANIMATION CANCELLING. The counterplay to instant damage burst ultimates is to AVOID letting yourself get into burst range, which has already been made as easy as it ever has been with the ridiculous amount of CP, mitigation, and health available in this game. This is a silly, hand-holding, noob-catering change that has no place at all in the fast paced environment that is ESO pvp.

idk if you use the PTS or not but let me reassure you, its *** awful

I'm working on setting up a PC now to play new games and utilize the PTS. Unfortunately with the state of the game, grinding a new account on PC NA is out of the question until they address performance.

I can only imagine though, using the unmorphed dawnbreaker recently on my stamnecro in BG's while finishing out skill lines I discovered how god awful the short cast time is. The ability doesn't always fire when you press it and it's difficult to predict when the damage will actually go out, making it miss the majority of the time on mobile targets in PVP. With the way they made animation canceling actually cancel the ability with the new cast time, I predict some severe (and well founded) frustration coming out of players that have used this ability (and others) for years.

Transairion

Its because in 2019 there are some forum warriors still calling animation cancelling cheating and are for some reason incapable or simply too lazy to learn it.

Not quite as clear cut as that, but I've always found it really bizarre you can animation cancel at all... what's the point of the (formerly?) forced animations if you can skip them entirely to do add something "impossible" into what should be filled timeframe? Wouldn't then an animation-less ESO combat be even better/faster?

The main problem is PvP and latency/ms differences, since 300ms at all times in Australia VS 30ms in US makes stuff being animation cancelled all clump together.

• Death Stroke & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities to sync up with their animations.
• Dawnbreaker & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
• Berserker Strike & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
• Soul Shred & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities.
• Lacerate & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities, rather than the 500ms delay they had before.

Maybe the idea of Ult Cast times is to give PvP counterplay to all the non-US players who don't have 30ms? These all look like PvP-centric Ults to me.

MehrunesFlagon

Haven't been on pts,but I can just imagine this being clunky. Plus they never tell the truth about the actual length of the cast time.

Xogath

..wow. I saw the cast time for Dawnbreaker, but now ALL of those abilities have a small cast time?

The hell is happening with combat in this game?

Sorry, but it's looking like prime time to jump ship before this sinks to the bottom of the MMOcean.

Nerhesi

Perhaps we should consider with an open mind a change from the twitch-FPS nature of PvP in this game, to a more attrition/sustained dps?

After all, PvP is frequently highlighted as the weakest area of this game (by people obviously who dont like it)

Insco851

Xogath wrote: »

..wow. I saw the cast time for Dawnbreaker, but now ALL of those abilities have a small cast time?

The hell is happening with combat in this game?

Sorry, but it's looking like prime time to jump ship before this sinks to the bottom of the MMOcean.

First of all that’s not “small”

Transairion wrote: »

Its because in 2019 there are some forum warriors still calling animation cancelling cheating and are for some reason incapable or simply too lazy to learn it.

Not quite as clear cut as that, but I've always found it really bizarre you can animation cancel at all... what's the point of the (formerly?) forced animations if you can skip them entirely to do add something "impossible" into what should be filled timeframe? Wouldn't then an animation-less ESO combat be even better/faster?

The main problem is PvP and latency/ms differences, since 300ms at all times in Australia VS 30ms in US makes stuff being animation cancelled all clump together.

• Death Stroke & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities to sync up with their animations.
• Dawnbreaker & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
• Berserker Strike & morphs: Added a 400ms cast time to these abilities.
• Soul Shred & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities.
• Lacerate & morphs: Added a 500ms cast time to these abilities, rather than the 500ms delay they had before.

Maybe the idea of Ult Cast times is to give PvP counterplay to all the non-US players who don't have 30ms? These all look like PvP-centric Ults to me.

“Break free > Dodge roll” is quicker than these ultis even if you stun before hand. Ask any magblade that played with merciless in the recent patches. This is godawful. More stalled out 1v1’s cuz burst gonna plummet.

sweatapodimas

Yep shorten or get rid of it, wonky wonky animation now

Koolio

Animation Cancellation is the main reason I play this game so much

Dcuo had it and fell in love with Eso when I found out they did too

ScruffyWhiskers

Yes, please reconsider this change. It's very disruptive to combat flow and isn't needed. I would rather take a million dawnbreakers to the face than have this clunkiness injected into the combat.

Lucky28

I really really don't like cast times on Ultimates. really don't need anymore broken/hindering animations to get stuck in.

Vlad9425

Half the time I use Dawnbreaker on the live server it just vanishes into thin air anyway due to lag and framerate problems so this is just another change that seems to only be getting implemented to frustrate people who play PvP.

kalunte

the most ridiculous imo is that it affects single target and "conic" ults but not dragon leap or radialk sweepfor instance which are circle AoE ults...

Vortigaunt

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Half the time I use Dawnbreaker on the live server it just vanishes into thin air anyway due to lag and framerate problems so this is just another change that seems to only be getting implemented to frustrate people who play PvP.

Exactly. They made this change thinking entirely in a vacuum. They forgot that this game has awful lag issues and netcode...

sweatapodimas

Yeah I'm still trying to figure out why they think there's a problem with DB and incap/SH/BS. Are people complaining that much about being bursted down? In this meta these Ulti are the only real solution imo. I wonder if it's the ones that play the "unkillable builds" that, when some of us blow em up, they cry about their "unkillable builds" dying. Takes skill (IMO) to dynamically (i.e. "with real-time variations") line up a burst combo, with 4 or 5 different buffs having each a different cool-downs, AND positioning/execution.

It just seems this patch and maybe more to come is to truly dumb down combat. Maybe their business development people have studied data that suggests the player base that will stick around after the game enters its maintenance period, are more casual button-pushers. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it's just not my thing after experiencing the joys of ESO's dynamic combat (especially PVP).

I know they are speaking of "standardization" , but they should really not gloss over the particulars. This kind of change requires serious data-gathering and playtesting, i.e. time time time, which is money at companies that develop anything (pharma, biotech, software, automotive, etc...)

Kolzki

I don't even mind people avoiding the ultimate. Just fix it so i don't get stuck on the wrong bar hitting the wrong skill because my ultimate prevented me from bar swapping.

khajiitNPC

yeah I very much dislike the changes to these ultimates. Please revert.

J18696

Also agree this is a bad change

khajiitNPC

Same. Bad is bad.

sweatapodimas

Bad bad bad bad just bad

Arciris

Oh! Look at all those people crying because they got their cheese taken away. L2P and adapt.

sweatapodimas

Man I hungry, I need some cheese right now. Thanks a lot

Veinblood1965

Well hey at least the scenery is still nice. Actually playing in any type of combat setting is more and more becoming irritating.