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Cast Time To All Shields, Not Just Specific Shields
Haashhtaag
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With the changes to shields it is my opinion that if you're going to apply a 1 second cast time to certain shields you should apply to all shields. It is absurd that you're only targeting shields that 1 class has in regards to annulment and it's morphs as well as conjured ward and it's morphs.
Below are a list of other shields which should also receive a cast time:
Steadfast Ward and its morphs
Sun Shield and its morphs
Magma Shell
Obsidian Shield and its morphs
Crystallized Shield and its morphs
Bone Shield and its morphs
Barrier and its morphs
Siege Shield and its morphs
Concentrated Barrier passive in psijic skill line should have a 1 second delay
It is only fair that if you're going to make this decision to completely destroy a class in a facet of the game you make the change across all classes.
Below are a list of other shields which should also receive a cast time:
Steadfast Ward and its morphs
Sun Shield and its morphs
Magma Shell
Obsidian Shield and its morphs
Crystallized Shield and its morphs
Bone Shield and its morphs
Barrier and its morphs
Siege Shield and its morphs
Concentrated Barrier passive in psijic skill line should have a 1 second delay
It is only fair that if you're going to make this decision to completely destroy a class in a facet of the game you make the change across all classes.
24
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Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭How about no. Different abilities are different, stop asking to homogenize everything especially via nerfs.17 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS made it clear in the class rep meeting their intent was to nerf damage shields that make healers useless.
With that in mind, its pretty obvious why they nerfed some shields and not others.5 -
Shezzarrine✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »
And a damage abitu is a damage ability right? Let's just give every class the same abities, and just change the names of them. It's balanced right?
But for real have you ever tanked? Adding a 1 second channel to DK shards, which is btw probably the weakest sheild in the game being based on health, wouldn't let tanks block cast it and would make the skill useless7 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think your character should also go into a channeled animation every time iceheart procs.5 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »
No it isn't. Read Rob Garrett's comments in the dev tracker. The two affected shields we're targeted because they allow you to shirk having to make offensive sacrifices for better survivability.
Many other shields are health based, proc based, ultimates, etc. They don't compare to sorc Ward and Annulment which scale on offensive stats and are essentially spammable.11 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shezzarrine wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »
And a damage abitu is a damage ability right? Let's just give every class the same abities, and just change the names of them. It's balanced right?
But for real have you ever tanked? Adding a 1 second channel to DK shards, which is btw probably the weakest sheild in the game being based on health, wouldn't let tanks block cast it and would make the skill useless
The response would be, have your ever sorced in PVP? I would trade a shield with a cast time for a smaller insta cast that also returns stam, especially with all the dodging I am going to have to do on magic toon next patch.4 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Haashhtaag wrote: »
No it isn't. Read Rob Garrett's comments in the dev tracker. The two affected shields we're targeted because they allow you to shirk having to make offensive sacrifices for better survivability.
Many other shields are health based, proc based, ultimates, etc. They don't compare to sorc Ward and Annulment which scale on offensive stats and are essentially spammable.
Here is a little bit of knowledge for you and Rob.... sorcs in PVP weren't spec'ing full damage. Most ran 2 sustain sets plus a set like EG, BS, or Pirate skeleton. If a sorc was spec'ing full damage odds are they either had a pocket healer or ran in a zerg.Edited by Haashhtaag on September 20, 2018 9:25PM4 -
VarisVaris✭✭✭✭✭Shezzarrine wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »
And a damage abitu is a damage ability right? Let's just give every class the same abities, and just change the names of them. It's balanced right?
But for real have you ever tanked? Adding a 1 second channel to DK shards, which is btw probably the weakest sheild in the game being based on health, wouldn't let tanks block cast it and would make the skill useless
Block casting honestly is another thing that needs to go in this game1 -
Ir0nB34r✭✭✭Can we keep threads like this in the PTS/Feedback sections?[XBOX][NA]
Breton | Sorcerer | Damage Dealer - Build Info (Coming Soon)
Breton | Warden | Healer - Build Info (Coming Soon)
Argonian | Dragon Knight | Tank - Build Info (Coming Soon)
(Retired)Breton | Sorcerer | Tank - Build Info (<< Link to Google Docs Page)"If you are quitting, can I have your stuff??"0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »
Please present a viable argument for consideration.
You can start by explaining how a ~2k damage shield is somehow the equivalent of an 8k+ damage shield.5 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »
No it isn't. Read Rob Garrett's comments in the dev tracker. The two affected shields we're targeted because they allow you to shirk having to make offensive sacrifices for better survivability.
Many other shields are health based, proc based, ultimates, etc. They don't compare to sorc Ward and Annulment which scale on offensive stats and are essentially spammable.
Here is a little bit of knowledge for you and Rob.... sorcs in PVP weren't spec'ing full damage. Most ran 2 sustain sets plus a set like EG, BS, or Pirate skeleton. If a sorc was spec'ing full damage odds are they either had a pocket healer or ran in a zerg.
Please explain how you kill anyone with a brain wearing two sustain sets and EG. In orther words, the sorcs you describe are the zerg surfers.5 -
Splattercat_83✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »With the changes to shields it is my opinion that if you're going to apply a 1 second cast time to certain shields you should apply to all shields. It is absurd that you're only targeting shields that 1 class has in regards to annulment and it's morphs as well as conjured ward and it's morphs.
Below are a list of other shields which should also receive a cast time:
Steadfast Ward and its morphs
Sun Shield and its morphs
Magma Shell
Obsidian Shield and its morphs
Crystallized Shield and its morphs
Bone Shield and its morphs
Barrier and its morphs
Siege Shield and its morphs
Concentrated Barrier passive in psijic skill line should have a 1 second delay
It is only fair that if you're going to make this decision to completely destroy a class in a facet of the game you make the change across all classes.
Don't kill what mitigation pve magic classes would have left.0 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Haashhtaag wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »
No it isn't. Read Rob Garrett's comments in the dev tracker. The two affected shields we're targeted because they allow you to shirk having to make offensive sacrifices for better survivability.
Many other shields are health based, proc based, ultimates, etc. They don't compare to sorc Ward and Annulment which scale on offensive stats and are essentially spammable.
Here is a little bit of knowledge for you and Rob.... sorcs in PVP weren't spec'ing full damage. Most ran 2 sustain sets plus a set like EG, BS, or Pirate skeleton. If a sorc was spec'ing full damage odds are they either had a pocket healer or ran in a zerg.
Please explain how you kill anyone with a brain wearing two sustain sets and EG. In orther words, the sorcs you describe are the zerg surfers.
False, some of the best sorcs in the game are wearing some combination of shackle/amber/lich but some will throw spinners or running a willpower inferno staff. Magicka abilities scale differently than stamina abilities. Throw in a domihaus/llambris or grothdarr for more max mag and stam. You can do a lot of damage getting to 40-46k magicka(in cp). and only have around 2300-2600SD. It's all in the math and scaling how you output damage, plus the ever increasing CP increases that as well.Edited by Haashhtaag on September 20, 2018 9:30PM4 -
Shezzarrine✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Shezzarrine wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »
And a damage abitu is a damage ability right? Let's just give every class the same abities, and just change the names of them. It's balanced right?
But for real have you ever tanked? Adding a 1 second channel to DK shards, which is btw probably the weakest sheild in the game being based on health, wouldn't let tanks block cast it and would make the skill useless
The response would be, have your ever sorced in PVP? I would trade a shield with a cast time for a smaller insta cast that also returns stam, especially with all the dodging I am going to have to do on magic toon next patch.
Yes but that's not the point, if you don't have 30-40k HP the sheild is very small, it returns Stam but the only reason it's used in PvP is the mending buff. The sheild is negligible0 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Summoned shields with a cast animation should have a cast time that is longer than instant but shorter than one second.
Physical blocking is nearly instant because you already have the tools present.signing off0 -
akl77✭✭✭✭✭
✭For PVE this is gonna kill all mag tanks using shield, especially sorc.
Just bring sorc tank to any dlc dungeon, you’ll see it’ll get one shot cos of the 1 sec shield.
The boss hit so hard it’s gonna break your shield or a stun move then next second your dead.
Don’t even talk about other abilities, you won’t even have a chance to use them.
Sorc tank will no longer be playable, completely killed by ZOS, what sort of tank balance on all classes is this?
Like if there’s not already short of tanks everywhere when you queue anything.Pc na2 -
VaranisArano wrote: »ZOS made it clear in the class rep meeting their intent was to nerf damage shields that make healers useless.
Yup. And whose fault is that? It's ZOS' fault, that's who.
For FOUR YEARS they've been balancing content around shields, far too much in fact, and of course with power creep that content kept needing to be made more and more difficult in order to challenge the top players. Unfortunately their solution to creating that challenge was more and more "Simon Says" one-shot death mechanics to defeat those shields. Red-red-red-yellow... you win. Red-red-red-blue, you die. The only way to have a chance of surviving a mistake in this kind of evironment is to have huge damage shields available on demand, and that's how we ended up with AS and Cloudrest, where stam characters are generally a liability and not even wanted.
If the true reason for these nerfs, so they claim, was that healers aren't needed, then it's not because of shields, it's because they painted themselves into a corner with their dungeon and trial design. The way to make healers needed again (and stam wanted again) isn't to nerf shields, it's to lose the one-shot crap and develop mechanics with increasing amounts of damage over time that players need to absorb, and healers need to cleanse, shielded or not.
Unfortunately this is the bed they've made, and we have to sleep in it. Now of course they've finally realized it's a problem, but the true solution, which is reworking and re-balancing the content and mechanics, is just far too much work for them. All they've done with these nerfs is make mag and stam equally dead, and equally annoyed.
Nice.
As others have said before, this change isn't going to be much more than an especially annoying speed bump to the top 1% of players, nor for those who have little interest in exploring the game's most difficult content, but for those who are in the middle, those working their way up through dungeons and trials, or trying for that elusive flawless conqueror title, it's going to be a world of hurt.
Yes, shields needed a bit of a nerf, but this is too much. Having them be affected by crit damage, increasing the cost slightly for spamming them, or nerfing their size just a little would be enough. Increasing the duration of them was pointless. I've never had a shield last more than 3 seconds when I really needed one. It's also long, long past time to separate pve and pvp skills and gear. They can never be balanced while both groups continue to have access to the same toys. The hardcore pvp crowd can never be appeased, because for them every death is ultimately personal on some level, and pve players have suffered and will continue to suffer every time they complain.
Edited by ramasurinenpreub18_ESO on September 21, 2018 4:13AM14 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For PVE this is gonna kill all mag tanks using shield, especially sorc.
Just bring sorc tank to any dlc dungeon, you’ll see it’ll get one shot cos of the 1 sec shield.
The boss hit so hard it’s gonna break your shield or a stun move then next second your dead.
Don’t even talk about other abilities, you won’t even have a chance to use them.
Sorc tank will no longer be playable, completely killed by ZOS, what sort of tank balance on all classes is this?
Like if there’s not already short of tanks everywhere when you queue anything.
Zos kills tanks of other classes all the time. Templar tanks, Nightblade tanks, always in the meat grinder. I’m not surprised if Sorc tanks are next in line. They want only DK tanks and Templar healers. “Diversity” is just lip service and selling jargon.ramasurinenpreub18_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »ZOS made it clear in the class rep meeting their intent was to nerf damage shields that make healers useless.
Yup. And whose fault is that? It's ZOS' fault, that's who.
For FOUR YEARS they've been balancing content around shields, far too much in fact, and of course with power creep that content kept needing to be made more and more difficult in order challenge the top players. Unfortunately their solution to creating that challenge was more and more "Simon Says" one-shot death mechanics to defeat those shields. Red-red-red-yellow... you win. Red-red-red-blue, you die. The only way to have a chance of surviving a mistake in this kind of evironment is to have huge damage shields available on demand, and that's how we ended up with AS and Cloudrest, where stam characters are generally a liability and not even wanted.
If the true reason for these nerfs, so they claim, was that healers aren't needed, then it's not because of shields, it's because they painted themselves into a corner with their dungeon and trial design. The way to make healers needed again (and stam wanted again) isn't to nerf shields, it's to lose the one-shot crap and develop mechanics with increasing amounts of damage over time that players need to absorb, and healers need to cleanse, shielded or not.
Unfortunately this is the bed they've made, and we have to sleep in it. Now of course they've finally realized it's a problem, but the true solution, which is reworking and re-balancing the content and mechanics, is just far too much work for them. All they've done with these nerfs is make mag and stam equally dead, and equally annoyed.
Nice.
As others have said before, this change isn't going to be much more than an especially annoying speed bump to the top 1% of players, nor for those who have little interest in exploring the game's most difficult content, but for those who are in the middle, those working their way up through dungeons and trials, or trying for that elusive flawless conqueror title, it's going to be a world of hurt.
Yes, shields needed a bit of a nerf, but this is too much. Having them be affected by crit damage, increasing the cost slightly for spamming them, or nerfing their size just a little would be enough. Increasing the duration of them was pointless. I've never had a shield last more than 3 seconds when I really needed one. It's also long, long past time to separate pve and pvp skills and gear. They can never be balanced while both groups continue to have access to the same toys. The hardcore pvp crowd can never be appeased, because every death is ultimately personal on some level, and pve players have suffered and will continue to suffer every time they complain.
Agree and awesome. QFT.
In regards to OP, they’ll get around to it, don’t you worry. This is only the beginning.Edited by max_only on September 21, 2018 3:13AM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom2 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Never have I seen greater hyperbole then when kids complain about a nerf. The class is not completely destroyed due to a cast time of shields being added. Stop wetting the bed pos5 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe zeni will understand when group meta becomes one tank three DD with healing ward backbar.1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »
No it isn't. Read Rob Garrett's comments in the dev tracker. The two affected shields we're targeted because they allow you to shirk having to make offensive sacrifices for better survivability.
Many other shields are health based, proc based, ultimates, etc. They don't compare to sorc Ward and Annulment which scale on offensive stats and are essentially spammable.
Honestly, Garret's motivating sounds more like:
"It doesn't matter what kind of feedback you guys give us, we will go through with whatever changes that we like, wether you like it or not".
Sure, this is always the case, but when you almost work against your costumer's wishes (instead of actually listening to them), and doing so in an official response, it gives a wierd feeling I must say......
ZOS wanted to add counterplay to shields, but now they remove the ability to interrupt them....A lot of stuff doesn't make sense this patch, many un expected and wierd changes...
Instead of having a cast time on shields, I would rather see a cooldown being applied, so you can't spam your shields, but you can use them for "ohh sh*t moments* instead of before it happens.
Edited by Qbiken on September 21, 2018 5:50AM1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ramasurinenpreub18_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »ZOS made it clear in the class rep meeting their intent was to nerf damage shields that make healers useless.
Yup. And whose fault is that? It's ZOS' fault, that's who.
For FOUR YEARS they've been balancing content around shields, far too much in fact, and of course with power creep that content kept needing to be made more and more difficult in order to challenge the top players. Unfortunately their solution to creating that challenge was more and more "Simon Says" one-shot death mechanics to defeat those shields. Red-red-red-yellow... you win. Red-red-red-blue, you die. The only way to have a chance of surviving a mistake in this kind of evironment is to have huge damage shields available on demand, and that's how we ended up with AS and Cloudrest, where stam characters are generally a liability and not even wanted.
If the true reason for these nerfs, so they claim, was that healers aren't needed, then it's not because of shields, it's because they painted themselves into a corner with their dungeon and trial design. The way to make healers needed again (and stam wanted again) isn't to nerf shields, it's to lose the one-shot crap and develop mechanics with increasing amounts of damage over time that players need to absorb, and healers need to cleanse, shielded or not.
Unfortunately this is the bed they've made, and we have to sleep in it. Now of course they've finally realized it's a problem, but the true solution, which is reworking and re-balancing the content and mechanics, is just far too much work for them. All they've done with these nerfs is make mag and stam equally dead, and equally annoyed.
Nice.
As others have said before, this change isn't going to be much more than an especially annoying speed bump to the top 1% of players, nor for those who have little interest in exploring the game's most difficult content, but for those who are in the middle, those working their way up through dungeons and trials, or trying for that elusive flawless conqueror title, it's going to be a world of hurt.
Yes, shields needed a bit of a nerf, but this is too much. Having them be affected by crit damage, increasing the cost slightly for spamming them, or nerfing their size just a little would be enough. Increasing the duration of them was pointless. I've never had a shield last more than 3 seconds when I really needed one. It's also long, long past time to separate pve and pvp skills and gear. They can never be balanced while both groups continue to have access to the same toys. The hardcore pvp crowd can never be appeased, because for them every death is ultimately personal on some level, and pve players have suffered and will continue to suffer every time they complain.
Quoted for truth. Questionable trial design (looking at you Asylum) is what started all this mess.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »ZOS made it clear in the class rep meeting their intent was to nerf damage shields that make healers useless.
With that in mind, its pretty obvious why they nerfed some shields and not others.
But healers aren't useless at all in pvp.
They're completely gutting the class in pvp.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
coplannb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Magma shield is a secondary effect of an ultimate, and also only a synergie, so not a an ability in the first place.
obsidian shield is so weak on a normal-hp toon no one slots it for the shield anyway.
crystalised shield only absorbs projectiles
I could go on, but apples and oranges...max level: mDK, stamBlade, stamSorc, magPlar, mDen, stamDen, magBlade, stamCro
ESO+
# of mules: 4 (FULL)
maxed bank: FULL -_-
Stop the grind! Get rid of stupid events and daily-quest gallore. Get rid of "have a chance of 1 in a million to get a piece of 1 in 30 to get a stupid motif or pet... wtf..."
And at this point just remove all classes and have everyone choose their set of skills. then balance accordingly to skills always used vs. skills never used.0 -
LeHarrt91✭✭✭✭✭
✭Uh what... most of what you listed are either expensive ultimates or shields that scale with Max Health (which require you to sacrifice a lot of damage to have effective shields) even Steadfast ward requires a specific weapon to use it. the only 2 that scale with magicka and don't require a specific weapon are annulment and conjured ward. Which is why they were affected differently.
and lol at siege shield... really.PS NA
Have played all classes.
Warden Main0
