Cast time for Ultimates

UmbrioGaming

Am I the only one who really hates the 0,4sec cast time on some of the most popular ultis like Death Stroke (and morphs), Onslaught, Dawnbreaker...?
I realize that they do it so the audio and visual effects are not showing up AFTER the ultimate hits, but making it impossible to cancel them is WAY worse in my opinion.
There has got to be a better way to fix the problem with audio and visual than just making the ultimates insanely bad.

MurderMostFoul

I believe the patch notes say they can still can be cancelled.

Vortigaunt

^ they can’t. You can’t even bar swap cancel anymore. It’s ridiculously [snip] and doesn’t fit with the pvp combat of eso, and it needs to be brought up to the attention of zos...

[Edit for bait.]

Trian94

It's super bad, already made a post about this on the PTS section and commented on the PvP feedback thread. Have an agree because you're on the right track

UmbrioGaming

yeah i really love the fast playstyle of this game, but that change literally changed that.

MurderMostFoul

Vortigaunt wrote: »

^ they can’t. You can’t even bar swap [snip] anymore. It’s ridiculously cancer and doesn’t fit with the pvp combat of eso, and it needs to be brought up to the attention of zos...

[Edit for bait.]

I mean, the patch notes indicate they can be cancelled without firing or using your ultimate. So you can get out of the animation, but you are no longer triggering your ultimate.
If this element is not working as intended, then it indeed needs to be fixed. There shouldn't be any animations you can't bar swap, Dodge roll, block, or bash out of.

Gilvoth

i love these new changes, and im willing to bet this will be a big hit and Fortune in the Positive for those of us that hate animation canceling and want it removed from the game.

thank you zenimax for getting this new change introduced into the game, it is a Great step forward in the path we are looking for towards canceling animation canceling.

Gilvoth

UmbrioGaming wrote: »

yeah i really love the fast playstyle of this game, but that change literally changed that.

although your group of friends do not want it, many of us DO want animation canceling removed.
and we have been asking for this since 2014 till present.


https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/257245/remove-animation-cancelling

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/231468/a-desperate-plea-for-zos-please-remove-animation-cancelling

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/391406/animation-canceling

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318000/remove-animation-canceling

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/476113/animation-cancelling-feels-horrible-and-pointless

Gilvoth

[Quoted post has been removed.]

not everyone is going to have the same opinion as yours.
the forum is here for us to be allowed to share our opinions, and that is all i have done.
if this bothers you? i cant help that.
im not here for that.

ryh

Problem with anicancel is that lower lag U have more U get from anicancel.

For example my friend got about 30ms ping to server. Ive got about 100.
When he put on me some combo I just mostly see bash animaton on his toon but at combat log I se light attacks skills bashes and downbraker.
When he tries the same on my ISP connection He couldnt anicancel so good and i saw some parts of skill animations before bash cancels and flash from downbraker was visible.

NuarBlack

Animation canceling is a double edged sword. On one hand it is nice cause it increases the skill ceiling, but on the other other it degrades the integrity of the game. Just watching streams or videos of players good at animation canceling shows you that. It actually makes the game look like ***.

Animations are there for a reason in a action combat rpg. They are a form of tell. Imagine playing a fromsoft game where bosses animation cancelled. You wouldn't be able to beat them.

So I'm torn. Not sure if this ultimate change is the right one but I honestly wish there was a better way to increase the skill ceiling without animation canceling. As infact many games a part of the skill is knowing when to animation lock yourself and when to avoid it.

ElvenVeil

I think cast time on ultimates is an annoyance but something you can learn to live with. Having said that, the biggest issue in changes like this one, is that it slows down pvp. Same with buffing snares (and reducing snare immunity) , and more or less removing major expedition , it just slows down how the game is played, and honestly I find the fast paced gameplay much more enjoyable.

jhall03

I could take them or leave them, honestly. Once you learn how to do them they are fun and add to the skill ceiling. But they can also be a detriment during lag, which we know isn't going to get better. It's pretty fun to LA>skill>bash Overland NPCs, but annoying as heck when you go into Cyrodiil and struggle to do the same thing.

A delay on roll dodge kills the game for me, though. I hope it's not intended.

ryh

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Its not a problem with learn that.
Problem is in differnet place.
I see bash bash bash bash bash maybe some strange canceled moves not always sure what skill it was.
Then im dead.
Checking combat log: LA+HEROIC+BASH LA+REVERB+BASH DOWNBRAEKER LA+SLICE+BASH LA+SLICE+BASH....


Many times i die becase i didnt know that ive got downbreaker and health bar is going down with some dealy in PvP (lag).

So its good to apply small channel to some skills like downbrekaer.

Wolfpaw

Vortigaunt wrote: »

^ they can’t. You can’t even bar swap cancel anymore. It’s ridiculously [snip] and doesn’t fit with the pvp combat of eso, and it needs to be brought up to the attention of zos...

[Edit for bait.]

It's a good move imo, ESO combat needed to be slowed down,...now get the hell off my lawn.

leepalmer95

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

^ they can’t. You can’t even bar swap cancel anymore. It’s ridiculously [snip] and doesn’t fit with the pvp combat of eso, and it needs to be brought up to the attention of zos...

[Edit for bait.]

It's a good move imo, ESO combat needed to be slowed down,...now get the hell off my lawn.

Eso's combat is the only thing it has over other mmo's.

Insco851

ryh wrote: »

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Its not a problem with learn that.
Problem is in differnet place.
I see bash bash bash bash bash maybe some strange canceled moves not always sure what skill it was.
Then im dead.
Checking combat log: LA+HEROIC+BASH LA+REVERB+BASH DOWNBRAEKER LA+SLICE+BASH LA+SLICE+BASH....


Many times i die becase i didnt know that ive got downbreaker and health bar is going down with some dealy in PvP (lag).

So its good to apply small channel to some skills like downbrekaer.

Excuse me if this sounds rude- it’s not meant to be taken that way.

It just sounds like an experience gap and you aren’t used to what each class has to bring. Visual queues are there once you know what you are looking at.

Unless you are experiencing something so quick that I’ve never actually seen. There’s a gcd regardless.

kollege14a5

Cast times on Ultimates is ridiculous and should not be added to the game since it makes combat super clunky.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings,

After removing a few comments, we must remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil and constructive, as well as within the guidelines of the rules we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Madhatten512

The flow of ESO combat the ability to animation cancel and weave is what makes it so amazing and frankly better than any other game out there... The combat is what keeps us playing through the lag through the terrible performance issues through the broken promises of a fix coming soon that has never came.... If you start picking and choosing what skills you can and cant cancel its going to ruin that flow and what makes ESO combat great.... The next patch looks very promising in a lot of ways hopefully the death of the tank meta more risk and reward for building a damage oriented build and more risk for building tanky… If an ult like Dawnbreaker needs to have its damage delayed to make some people happy so be it but you have to give back the ability to animation cancel the skills to keep the flow of combat... Plus outnumbered there are times using an ultimate into a roll dodge is your only chance of survival don't ruin what makes ESO combat great..

ryh

Insco851 wrote: »

ryh wrote: »

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Its not a problem with learn that.
Problem is in differnet place.
I see bash bash bash bash bash maybe some strange canceled moves not always sure what skill it was.
Then im dead.
Checking combat log: LA+HEROIC+BASH LA+REVERB+BASH DOWNBRAEKER LA+SLICE+BASH LA+SLICE+BASH....


Many times i die becase i didnt know that ive got downbreaker and health bar is going down with some dealy in PvP (lag).

So its good to apply small channel to some skills like downbrekaer.

Excuse me if this sounds rude- it’s not meant to be taken that way.

It just sounds like an experience gap and you aren’t used to what each class has to bring. Visual queues are there once you know what you are looking at.

Unless you are experiencing something so quick that I’ve never actually seen. There’s a gcd regardless.

Ive testem this with friend.

One connection 1Gbit with less than 30ms ping to ESO server, 2nd by LTE with about 100ms ping.

When i was on 1Gbit and my friend on LTE - easy wins on my side and my friend just saw my toon mostly with bash and no visual downbraker. He didnt see even reverse slices heroic slashes etc. Just bashes. I saw all his skills and he got problemy with proper anicancel.

When friend connected to 1Gbit and my laptop to LTE I couldnt see his canceled skills and he got full flow combos without any problems.

So my point is that there is no l2p issue with anicancel. Its easy. Its just work best if U got really good connection to ESO. If U meet equal enemy at PvP and uve got not best connection U will die because U will not see many visuals of canceled skills.

Davadin

Insco851 wrote: »

ryh wrote: »

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Its not a problem with learn that.
Problem is in differnet place.
I see bash bash bash bash bash maybe some strange canceled moves not always sure what skill it was.
Then im dead.
Checking combat log: LA+HEROIC+BASH LA+REVERB+BASH DOWNBRAEKER LA+SLICE+BASH LA+SLICE+BASH....


Many times i die becase i didnt know that ive got downbreaker and health bar is going down with some dealy in PvP (lag).

So its good to apply small channel to some skills like downbrekaer.

Excuse me if this sounds rude- it’s not meant to be taken that way.

It just sounds like an experience gap and you aren’t used to what each class has to bring. Visual queues are there once you know what you are looking at.

Unless you are experiencing something so quick that I’ve never actually seen. There’s a gcd regardless.

u can ani-cancel Dawnbreakers and a few other ulti that u skipped the visual nearly 100%.....

Insco851

Davadin wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

ryh wrote: »

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Its not a problem with learn that.
Problem is in differnet place.
I see bash bash bash bash bash maybe some strange canceled moves not always sure what skill it was.
Then im dead.
Checking combat log: LA+HEROIC+BASH LA+REVERB+BASH DOWNBRAEKER LA+SLICE+BASH LA+SLICE+BASH....


Many times i die becase i didnt know that ive got downbreaker and health bar is going down with some dealy in PvP (lag).

So its good to apply small channel to some skills like downbrekaer.

Excuse me if this sounds rude- it’s not meant to be taken that way.

It just sounds like an experience gap and you aren’t used to what each class has to bring. Visual queues are there once you know what you are looking at.

Unless you are experiencing something so quick that I’ve never actually seen. There’s a gcd regardless.

u can ani-cancel Dawnbreakers and a few other ulti that u skipped the visual nearly 100%.....

You still get the light flashes and audio. I’ve def seen really short animations. But not bashbashbashbash I’m lost combos.

Insco851

ryh wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

ryh wrote: »

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Its not a problem with learn that.
Problem is in differnet place.
I see bash bash bash bash bash maybe some strange canceled moves not always sure what skill it was.
Then im dead.
Checking combat log: LA+HEROIC+BASH LA+REVERB+BASH DOWNBRAEKER LA+SLICE+BASH LA+SLICE+BASH....


Many times i die becase i didnt know that ive got downbreaker and health bar is going down with some dealy in PvP (lag).

So its good to apply small channel to some skills like downbrekaer.

Excuse me if this sounds rude- it’s not meant to be taken that way.

It just sounds like an experience gap and you aren’t used to what each class has to bring. Visual queues are there once you know what you are looking at.

Unless you are experiencing something so quick that I’ve never actually seen. There’s a gcd regardless.

Ive testem this with friend.

One connection 1Gbit with less than 30ms ping to ESO server, 2nd by LTE with about 100ms ping.

When i was on 1Gbit and my friend on LTE - easy wins on my side and my friend just saw my toon mostly with bash and no visual downbraker. He didnt see even reverse slices heroic slashes etc. Just bashes. I saw all his skills and he got problemy with proper anicancel.

When friend connected to 1Gbit and my laptop to LTE I couldnt see his canceled skills and he got full flow combos without any problems.

So my point is that there is no l2p issue with anicancel. Its easy. Its just work best if U got really good connection to ESO. If U meet equal enemy at PvP and uve got not best connection U will die because U will not see many visuals of canceled skills.

On Xbox for the record- and I’ve never seen anything that dramatic. Could be a pc connection thing? I’m not playing on an amazing connection either. 15g down. 45-90~ ping.

Very interesting that’s out there tho on platforms.

NuarBlack

I transferred to ps4 so I'm not sure what mods are available and capable of as I know old miats is at least dead but recent videos do seem to show mods giving more info than is possible on console. So my question is that are some PC players mistaking these mods for skill and ability to tell what is going on and is therefore affecting their opinions on ani-cancel?

Inb4 I already said I like the higher skill ceiling and the flow it feels like it gives while playing. But you can't honestly say it looks good from an outside perspective. Makes the game look like garbage watching pvp videos and dps parses. And in a game that is supposed to rely on visual ques that is bad design. Cause no mods should not have to make up for it. In any other game seeing an ability fire without an animation would be considered a bug.

Madhatten512

@Gilliamtherogue I've followed you for a long a time and was always impressed with your animation canceling whether it be in your pve dps rotation videos or watching you play pvp could you or anyone else from Zenimax elaborate on the thought behind this change are we going to start picking and choosing this many years into the game what skills can and can't be animation canceled??? Animation canceling is something I practiced and learned to do well because I found it essential to finish kills in pvp everyone has the same opportunity to do the same its not a hard thing to do just takes a little practice... There has been a trend of simplifying and dumbing down the combat of this game every patch for about a year straight and if this goes live will just be another example of that..

Madhatten512

Gilvoth wrote: »

UmbrioGaming wrote: »

yeah i really love the fast playstyle of this game, but that change literally changed that.

although your group of friends do not want it, many of us DO want animation canceling removed.
and we have been asking for this since 2014 till present.


https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/257245/remove-animation-cancelling

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/231468/a-desperate-plea-for-zos-please-remove-animation-cancelling

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/391406/animation-canceling

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318000/remove-animation-canceling

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/476113/animation-cancelling-feels-horrible-and-pointless[/

So what just want turn based combat take all skill out whoever has the best gear wins because there are games out there like that go play them don't ruin this one

Madhatten512

@ZOS_GinaBruno I also didn't see anything in the patch notes about adding a cooldown after a bash but it is happening on the pts... There is a delay after a bash weave that doesn't allow you to roll or bar swap.... I want to know why you are trying to remove animation canceling and skilled gameplay from this game.. It also is the reason that roll dodge on gamepad is screwed up on the pts because there is this weird delay and u have to hit the block trigger and a button to roll dodge on an xbox controller... I wish Zenimax would just be honest about there intentions if your intent is to do the same thing WOW did homogenize skills take away the flow of combat change animation canceling after 5 years of it being the way combat in this game worked and dumb it down for the masses then just say it so the rest of us can move on...

LegacyDM

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

Waffennacht

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

You won't ever be able to kill one of my builds if you have cast times tho

leepalmer95

LegacyDM wrote: »

We need more cast times. Chaining attacks so that they can be cast within the same second as other attacks is broken. Been broken. Glad after 5 years they are fixing it.

There is always a 1s gcd between skills