OILS NOT SHIELDABLE AND DOING 18K DMG PER TICK

baronzilch

Vapirko wrote: »

I’d like to add my voice to those who say it’s a good thing, I’ve said this in a thread or two already but I after playing with it for an extended time, I beleive the battles are faster paced, more dynamic and much more tactical than ever before. At first I was like meh, but it certainly does make big groups think twice before zerging into a keep.

Whipping out 20k dps siege to fight in the open field is not tactical. Faster in a way, maybe...

Siege was fine pre 21.

Maybe you were kidding...

InvitationNotFound

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just to clear things up - when it was said that this is something we're discussing, it wasn't to keep siege's currently-broken state. Just that we're talking about potentially increasing the damage of siege from how it's been. Again, nothing set it stone, we're just talking like you all are.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Please don't increase the damage or at least, for once, consider the differences between cp and no-cp.

No-cp PvP certainly doesn't need a buff in siege damage. You can't just simply put the damage up by x% and think the results on both campaigns would be the same.

It is the same with guards, on Vivec a pure joke in comparison to Sotha (still not an issue, but way harder).

Operativ

That looks like a fun 'feature'.

I think that anti-facetanking features could be implemented like this one to bolster the defences of keeps and such, and to promote a more frequent use of siege equipment.

Svidrir

Cut anim on siege weapon is the futur !!

Why reroll, the siege weapon replaces classes !!

Teso you can play in pvp only with just one finger !!




E.T, come back ESO home !!



Ps:
A little help for all the great poliorectics expert of the forum
!! !

Ancient Fortifications: A Compendium of Theory and Practice

BoraxFlux

Having a blast up til now, fights are much more dynamic around keeps.
Bleakers yesterday, attackers jumped around the oils or melted away, a sniper that took out the siegers defending, an enemy alliance that coldfired the oilers and wiped a few of us instantly.

Chased out the AD and DC groups circling and sieging, don't know if those were tactics, but behind our backs Bleakers got tagged by DC postern sieging it, if so, smart move

I can imagine some will see siege-using as pointing and clicking right now, I differ in opinion , right now I think the urge to do something about the sieges is much more there. Pulling out the groundtroops.
From a defence stance to cripple those attack -sieges fast, from the walls you offer the ground-troops cover, or 'herd' the attackers far better in assisting ground-troops or killing them instantly when unprepared.
(Siege shield -if working properly- might be used more often now, maybe the role of tanks might get more extensive as well?)

Attackers point of view, e.g trebuchets are excellent to clear a wall faster with defenders and damaging the wall simultaneously.
Stealing a corner tower of a keep and you can now really prey havoc on the roof of the inner keep, greatly relieving the siegers below. Counterattack is dds that will address those sieges on the wall, there's only so much ballista's and oils fitting on the defending platform.
You can seriously deal damage to oilers at a maingate btw, by shooting with a trebuchet between the top of the gate and the first oiling floor, at least... if that isn't changed with the patch :P

Still, this has only been the second evening for me, playing trough prime time. So experience with the latest patch is still new.

technohic

baronzilch wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I’d like to add my voice to those who say it’s a good thing, I’ve said this in a thread or two already but I after playing with it for an extended time, I beleive the battles are faster paced, more dynamic and much more tactical than ever before. At first I was like meh, but it certainly does make big groups think twice before zerging into a keep.

Whipping out 20k dps siege to fight in the open field is not tactical. Faster in a way, maybe...

Siege was fine pre 21.

Maybe you were kidding...

Have you actually seen someone place siege in the open and it actually work? I've seen people try and it generally ends poorly.

The increased damage has added some excitement and it's been fun for a couple days but it is a bit much as I see more often people not attacking much at all and waiting at keeps. Needs to be somewhere between ore-patch and now in CP campaigns because pre patch it was pretty toothless except to really tunnel visioned players standing in it too long without healing.

And for those that dont think its skilled; it at least calls for some strategy and common sense. I say that from experience of seeing poor strategy of people hitting resources before the keep giving plenty of heads up for an enemy defense. Then singing the keep with all fire versions because "maybe that's all we have" according to snarky responses when I just mention to make sure they know as earlier in the night I saw people complaining it takes too long to take down a wall. Never mind the same people just took all the resources which gave them AP AND a siege version.

I usually dont comment in zone because everyone gets defensive but I've had free time since the patch fixed a bug where you get stuck on 1 bar, which somehow translates into me now getting it all the time, turning me into a RD spammer.

Svidrir

BoraxFlux wrote: »

Having a blast up til now, fights are much more dynamic around keeps.
Bleakers yesterday, attackers jumped around the oils or melted away, a sniper that took out the siegers defending, an enemy alliance that coldfired the oilers and wiped a few of us instantly.

Chased out the AD and DC groups circling and sieging, don't know if those were tactics, but behind our backs Bleakers got tagged by DC postern sieging it, if so, smart move

I can imagine some will see siege-using as pointing and clicking right now, I differ in opinion , right now I think the urge to do something about the sieges is much more there. Pulling out the groundtroops.
From a defence stance to cripple those attack -sieges fast, from the walls you offer the ground-troops cover, or 'herd' the attackers far better in assisting ground-troops or killing them instantly when unprepared.
(Siege shield -if working properly- might be used more often now, maybe the role of tanks might get more extensive as well?)

Attackers point of view, e.g trebuchets are excellent to clear a wall faster with defenders and damaging the wall simultaneously.
Stealing a corner tower of a keep and you can now really prey havoc on the roof of the inner keep, greatly relieving the siegers below. Counterattack is dds that will address those sieges on the wall, there's only so much ballista's and oils fitting on the defending platform.
You can seriously deal damage to oilers at a maingate btw, by shooting with a trebuchet between the top of the gate and the first oiling floor, at least... if that isn't changed with the patch :P

Still, this has only been the second evening for me, playing trough prime time. So experience with the latest patch is still new.

Absolutely and I think we should go further!

I propose to establish underground Bunkers at each faction base and to equip them with the nuclear weapon, so we can really clean the ramparts effectively and avoid unnecessary losses in the most dexterous to click the red button .

The atomic fallout ensuring the role of guardians to prevent any reinstallation of enemies before 100 or 200 years!




#makecyrodilgreatagain

TheBonesXXX

Recremen wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Wrong, I'm giving an analysis of an experienced MMO player, Beta Tester, and has the education to know how human perception actually works.

There are visual ques for siege. Animation clipping is the result of broken game physics which results certain visual ques not to appear.

One is complete in it's animation and was intended that's sieging.

You know what was not intended in the games physics? Animation canceling because the game is built for binocular vision; that means you have a pair of eyes and an overlapping field of view.

I'm not attacking the ability to purposely hide animation even when it was never intended, it's literally an unintended function of the game because it removes visual indicators needed to react. No game designer builds games without visual indicators.

Each skill has it's own animation, a visual motion that indicates that the character is using a skill, it's not supposed to have one animation and a player gets hit with three skills.

A player who animation canceling is tricking another person's perception of what's going in because the physics are broken. No one sees it, in fights people are giving an anticipratory reaction. You or anyone did not see all of those necessary movements.

Now, back to basic game physics, dying from fall damage requires falling. The way to mitigate falling is, do not stand next to the edge of things.

Everyone laughs when someone roll dodges off the third floor of the inners and dies.

The way not to die in Lake Rumare is not to swim in Lake Rumare, because the games programmed to kill player characters.

Do not fall in lava in the game, because the game is programmed to kill players.

Same principle applies, it's on the player not to get hit by a missile with a fix trajectory it has all necessary and complete visual indicators.

If people die to, fall damage, Slaughter fish, Lava, or siege, it's on them to react because the game gives them more than necessary perceptual ques, visual indicators.

You know what's not the proper amount of perceptual ques per the amount of skills used? Animation canceling.

Literally explained how the game functions but continue on with a knee jerk emotional response.

Your "analysis" betrays a complete lack of either academic integrity or rigor, perhaps both. First, I don't know why you're going off on animation canceling, it is completely tangential to the siege debate. Second, animation canceling is no longer even A Thing after the animation rework. Third, binocular vision has absolutely nothing to do with anything you were talking about. What is the relevance of binocular vision to the difference between player ability and siege animations? Is it.... nothing? Are you just throwing words out there to add artificial depth to your statements? What are you going to talk about next, the ergonomics of sitting?

During the whole time you decided to bloviate about your animation canceling truther conspiracies, you also ignored every other aspect of my argument, which I must assume is because you don't actually have any counters. For example, you complete ignored the comment about mind games, which is an essential part of any PvP game system. You do know what those are, right? Even long ago when your nonsense comments regarding animation canceling were true, the mind games were the most important part of a PvP encounter. Everyone had access to this "animation canceling" (which I must remind you no longer exists), which means everyone was on a level playing field. If you were still getting hit by skills you couldn't see while being unable to get your own off, you were probably a mind game novice.

There are no mind games when it comes to defending a keep with siege, however. It's not a mind game to slather a breach with oil, for instance. That's literally the only way to get in. The options are : risk getting oiled, or don't try to take keeps. No special decision is needed on behalf of the defenders, you're just getting carried by the game design. But again, you seem incapable or unwilling to acknowledge that dynamic. I'd love to accuse you of a "knee jerk emotional response" as you've so falsely accused me, but for that you'd have to actually respond to the arguments presented.

No, it doesn't. "Move out of the way" should have sufficed.

But with everyone reacting, not thinking things obviously need explained instead of the hysteria.

It's obvious that the forum reactionaries will always see the small picture instead of the big one.

BoraxFlux

Svidrir wrote: »

BoraxFlux wrote: »

Absolutely and I think we should go further!

I propose to establish underground Bunkers at each faction base and to equip them with the nuclear weapon, so we can really clean the ramparts effectively and avoid unnecessary losses in the most dexterous to click the red button .

The atomic fallout ensuring the role of guardians to prevent any reinstallation of enemies before 100 or 200 years!




#makecyrodilgreatagain

Sounds awesome #wantwhatyouareon

TequilaFire

I dare you to place siege in front of me in open field, you will be dead as fast as my gap closer gets me to you.

TheBonesXXX

TequilaFire wrote: »

I dare you to place siege in front of me in open field, you will be dead as fast as my gap closer gets me to you.

If I could awesome this a thousand times.

Qbiken

TequilaFire wrote: »

I dare you to place siege in front of me in open field, you will be dead as fast as my gap closer gets me to you.

Sure, I'll just shoot the coldfire ballista right at my feet and give u a nice 15k dot/sec, so unless you're a templar or decided to slot purge you're rip

TequilaFire

Qbiken wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I dare you to place siege in front of me in open field, you will be dead as fast as my gap closer gets me to you.

Sure, I'll just shoot the coldfire ballista right at my feet and give u a nice 15k dot/sec, so unless you're a templar or decided to slot purge you're rip

See my sig.

twitch_zero

technohic wrote: »

Have you actually seen someone place siege in the open and it actually work? I've seen people try and it generally ends poorly.

This week yes.

Mr_Walker

Buzo wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just to clear things up - when it was said that this is something we're discussing, it wasn't to keep siege's currently-broken state. Just that we're talking about potentially increasing the damage of siege from how it's been. Again, nothing set it stone, we're just talking like you all are.

All the zerglings that had their hopes up:

Krec wrote: »

Currently siege equipment damage is too op. If peeps want realism then make siege gear crew weapons and immovable or very cumbersome. Also increase the costs for all that siege gear, including oil. If you wanted to make siege gear hit harder then maybe reduce the buffs from siege shields. Those shield pop up everytime

When people say they want realism, they don't mean that much realism. What they actually mean is "we want realism insofar as it confers advantages on my play style".

marius_buys

Strong seige will help with lag and provide interesting choices when running a zerg.

JumpmanLane

All the Lil Zerglings on siege NEED to look behind them. Lol. and learn to fight.

Banana

It should whoop ya ass

Soul_Demon

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

mayasunrising wrote: »

I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

Of course increased siege damage is great....but currently the game 'sees' all siege as oblivion even ticks- so siege shield, glyphs, gear-sets and passives that give reductions to those types of damage (fire, cold, disease ect) would have to be all considered if you choose to keep all siege being seen as 'oblivion' rather than siege and the other elements ect. Currently none of them are functioning- at all. Many of us would need replacements for those items/resistances or an adjustment to make them functional. Just something to keep in mind as you discuss.

Mettaricana

Turelus wrote: »

Wait so siege is actually scary again? No more face tanking them?

Can we make it a feature?

Agreed i figure an arrow the size of 7 people should probably kill on hit rather than shield spam survive im for this

Neoauspex

JumpmanLane wrote: »

All the Lil Zerglings on siege NEED to look behind them. Lol. and learn to fight.

Zerglings in Earthgore puddles need to learn tactics.

Skitttles

I prefer it this way

gezginrocker

Maybe seasoned hardcore players think this bug is more fun, but I'm a casual player sorc at a non-cp server and I find this bug to be horrible. In fact I've been dying so much that I stopped playing until this bug is fixed. And I'm sick of people putting sieges everywhere and at almost every situation now. For example I used to love mass open field fights between Sej and Brk, but now people are putting sieges immediately even in the field and it is definitely not fun.

baronzilch

technohic wrote: »

Have you actually seen someone place siege in the open and it actually work?

Yes, I've seen it work.

TequilaFire wrote: »

I dare you to place siege in front of me in open field, you will be dead as fast as my gap closer gets me to you.

No one is dropping siege 1v1 in the open field. It's happening in small group play frequently though. If you are otherwise engaged when someone sets up siege off to the side of the melee your gap closer means nothing. Why intentionally be so obtuse? Just to brag about nothing?

The people loving it are cancer tanks and purgebot groups. You also couldn't kill a cancer tank in the 3 seconds it takes to set-up siege, awesome gap closer or not. Such hubris.

Siege was already the most damaging item in the game pre 21. Now it's just nutty. There are very few builds that can deal with 40K+ damage from the initial hit and first tick. Often you can't even purge/heal fast enough to take care of that first tick.

One shot mechanics are never good for pvp.

gezginrocker wrote: »

Maybe seasoned hardcore players think this bug is more fun

I'm sure some people think it's hilarious, but, don't expect those all to be hardcore pvpers. PvPers actually like to pvp and not have roflmao iwin buttons or gear rngs do their work for them.

TequilaFire

baronzilch wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Have you actually seen someone place siege in the open and it actually work?

Yes, I've seen it work.

TequilaFire wrote: »

I dare you to place siege in front of me in open field, you will be dead as fast as my gap closer gets me to you.

No one is dropping siege 1v1 in the open field. It's happening in small group play frequently though. If you are otherwise engaged when someone sets up siege off to the side of the melee your gap closer means nothing. Why intentionally be so obtuse? Just to brag about nothing?

The people loving it are cancer tanks and purgebot groups. You also couldn't kill a cancer tank in the 3 seconds it takes to set-up siege, awesome gap closer or not. Such hubris.

Siege was already the most damaging item in the game pre 21. Now it's just nutty. There are very few builds that can deal with 40K+ damage from the initial hit and first tick. Often you can't even purge/heal fast enough to take care of that first tick.

One shot mechanics are never good for pvp.

gezginrocker wrote: »

Maybe seasoned hardcore players think this bug is more fun

I'm sure some people think it's hilarious, but, don't expect those all to be hardcore pvpers. PvPers actually like to pvp and not have roflmao iwin buttons or gear rngs do their work for them.

No the point is a player in open field on siege is helpless and easy to take out if you can't do it that is on you.

Witar

Siege weapons are definitly not the only thing they broke
Made me laugh so hard by the way

TheBonesXXX

Qbiken wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I dare you to place siege in front of me in open field, you will be dead as fast as my gap closer gets me to you.

Sure, I'll just shoot the coldfire ballista right at my feet and give u a nice 15k dot/sec, so unless you're a templar or decided to slot purge you're rip

You know what the problem here is right? You assu

Witar wrote: »

Siege weapons are definitly not the only thing they broke
Made me laugh so hard by the way

Great, now we got Headshrinkers in ESO.

InvictusApollo

If you think about it a huge rock with magical fire should be able to one shot you. Before sieges were almost useless in keep defense because attackers would simply outheal any damage. Now it's more fun.

Demode

PVP is no fun anymore. I do believe the victory should go to whoever plays better not to those who manage to slot more sieges and point and click. With 28k health and active shuffle I get killed right away because 2 people hit me at the same time before healer can even react. This is not my definition of fun.

Currently there is a new meta ... slot a fire balista next to the wall and be as tanky as you can. Then if anyone comes near you shoot it and start stunning and debufing them. If it does not work repeat. You are tanky and cannot be killed unless there are like 10 people on you and you hit like a new born kitten ... but it's cool, there is a fire balista now to do the dmg for you. Not only that but it has quicker cooldown than most prop sets, does not care about are you stats dmg oriented or tanky, dmg is the same. And is an AOE. GG.

technohic

Witar wrote: »

Siege weapons are definitly not the only thing they broke
Made me laugh so hard by the way

So thats the guy in the waiting room in Beetlejuice.