OILS NOT SHIELDABLE AND DOING 18K DMG PER TICK

Sandman929

Czirne wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

sha-ext wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

mayasunrising wrote: »

I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

I hope you are not serious...
You want fast paced combat? You want keep sieges? You want players to take keeps?
Then please adjust the damage. I don't mind some sieges hurt a bit more, but remember how it was when meatbag and scattershot catapults were strong - it was very, very hard to take a keep against decent defenders...

As it should be.

If siege damage is there to stay, zos needs to introduce ladders and allow poeple to climb the walls.

Now you're talkin.

Minno

Sandman929 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I really don't mind siege being strong, if there are ways to mitigate it beyond simply not standing in it. Some fights have an incredible amount of defensive siege and there is literally nowhere for offensive siege to be except in the defensive siege AoEs. Often, even if I wanted to move to another location the siege cap prevents me from being able to set up enough new siege to be effective against a second wall.
Siege is already strong against people who can't/won't mitigate it with siege shields, strong heals and purges. Many disorganized groups die to siege, and that's as it should be, but everyone cheering overpowered siege are looking for a way to make disorganized beat organized by making siege a death sentence with no counter play.

Id like to see that video showing a random clump zerg "defeat" a well organized ball group running purges/dedicated healers with only siege lol.

Edit:
because they couldn't on murkmire and they wont on live.

I'm not sure which video you're talking about, but I don't think what you described would, could or should happen, although the siege on live PC sounds like it might be possible.

calling for video proof that a random bunch of misfits could drop a group running purgebots\healers. They won't because those groups haven't adapted to the rapids nerf yet; my money is on the ballgroups.

Turgenev

Sandman929 wrote: »

I'm just dying to know how this happens accidentally...QA is putting in work.

Sam, the PVP QA guy, is spending his 18th night going over the siege damage tables to make sure things remain balanced like they were ten minutes previously. Yep, siege is right there where it should be, he mutters under his breath. Damage multiplier is set to its correct "2" value. Just like ten minutes ago.

He thinks quietly to himself, "man, Aruba sounds great right now... Beaches.. sun.. *yaaawn* I could really.. real go f'r.. thaaaat---"

Sam's face nods forward, his eyes shut, and a dream of warm winds and roaring ocean fills his dream senses...

Sam's nose hits the keyboard, and rests ever so gently on the ZERO key. It settles down, holding Sam's head comfortably, letting him sleep deeply.


Two nights later, there's an urgent memo to the QA team. The author appears quite put out, from the subject..

"WHO THE HECK SET THE SIEGE MULTIPLIER TO 20,000,000,000,000?!?"

Sandman929

Minno wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I really don't mind siege being strong, if there are ways to mitigate it beyond simply not standing in it. Some fights have an incredible amount of defensive siege and there is literally nowhere for offensive siege to be except in the defensive siege AoEs. Often, even if I wanted to move to another location the siege cap prevents me from being able to set up enough new siege to be effective against a second wall.
Siege is already strong against people who can't/won't mitigate it with siege shields, strong heals and purges. Many disorganized groups die to siege, and that's as it should be, but everyone cheering overpowered siege are looking for a way to make disorganized beat organized by making siege a death sentence with no counter play.

Id like to see that video showing a random clump zerg "defeat" a well organized ball group running purges/dedicated healers with only siege lol.

Edit:
because they couldn't on murkmire and they wont on live.

I'm not sure which video you're talking about, but I don't think what you described would, could or should happen, although the siege on live PC sounds like it might be possible.

calling for video proof that a random bunch of misfits could drop a group running purgebots\healers. They won't because those groups haven't adapted to the rapids nerf yet; my money is on the ballgroups.

I don't recall every saying that happened. So I have no video proof, and don't know what you're talking about. I said disorganized groups die to siege, which in my opinion means that siege is as strong as it should be before this unintended buff.

technohic

Czirne wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

sha-ext wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

mayasunrising wrote: »

I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

I hope you are not serious...
You want fast paced combat? You want keep sieges? You want players to take keeps?
Then please adjust the damage. I don't mind some sieges hurt a bit more, but remember how it was when meatbag and scattershot catapults were strong - it was very, very hard to take a keep against decent defenders...

As it should be.

If siege damage is there to stay, zos needs to introduce ladders and allow poeple to climb the walls.

EDIT: To clarify - I think that this double siege damage is more realistic, but its too effective while defending keep from game balance point of view. Adding a ladders to climb the wall would allow attackers get on walls and try to burn sieges.

Of course there has to be some limitation on ladders, otherwise everyone will just build ladder and rams and trebuchets will not be used at all. I would say limit 3-6 ladder per keep, and it takes 5-15 second to actually climb up the ladder, to prevent attackers swarm walls like ants.

I actually wish they would freshen this up a bit and like that idea. Add some stones to drop on ladders as well. I even used to like it when DKs could leap onto walls and start attacking the people manning the siege. Maybe there should be a timer if you come in that way or something before it starts huring and you have to jump down.

Czirne

technohic wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

sha-ext wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

mayasunrising wrote: »

I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

I hope you are not serious...
You want fast paced combat? You want keep sieges? You want players to take keeps?
Then please adjust the damage. I don't mind some sieges hurt a bit more, but remember how it was when meatbag and scattershot catapults were strong - it was very, very hard to take a keep against decent defenders...

As it should be.

If siege damage is there to stay, zos needs to introduce ladders and allow poeple to climb the walls.

EDIT: To clarify - I think that this double siege damage is more realistic, but its too effective while defending keep from game balance point of view. Adding a ladders to climb the wall would allow attackers get on walls and try to burn sieges.

Of course there has to be some limitation on ladders, otherwise everyone will just build ladder and rams and trebuchets will not be used at all. I would say limit 3-6 ladder per keep, and it takes 5-15 second to actually climb up the ladder, to prevent attackers swarm walls like ants.

I actually wish they would freshen this up a bit and like that idea. Add some stones to drop on ladders as well. I even used to like it when DKs could leap onto walls and start attacking the people manning the siege. Maybe there should be a timer if you come in that way or something before it starts huring and you have to jump down.

Oh yea, I as well miss those days when DK could leap on walls and in main keep from outer walls. Good old times.
Back to the idea, I believe possibility of small group of attackers getting into keep before wall si breached would make taking and defending keep more fun. Right now as a defender you just wait inside, siege and wait for opportunity to push outside, as a attacker you wait outside and siege.
Adding another layer of gameplay and giving people more options could make game more fun, if implemented correctly into the game.

sage2000

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

mayasunrising wrote: »

I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

This will turn the game into PvSiege. Soooo boring. Please no.

TBois

Czirne wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

sha-ext wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

mayasunrising wrote: »

I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

I hope you are not serious...
You want fast paced combat? You want keep sieges? You want players to take keeps?
Then please adjust the damage. I don't mind some sieges hurt a bit more, but remember how it was when meatbag and scattershot catapults were strong - it was very, very hard to take a keep against decent defenders...

As it should be.

If siege damage is there to stay, zos needs to introduce ladders and allow poeple to climb the walls.

EDIT: To clarify - I think that this double siege damage is more realistic, but its too effective while defending keep from game balance point of view. Adding a ladders to climb the wall would allow attackers get on walls and try to burn sieges.

Of course there has to be some limitation on ladders, otherwise everyone will just build ladder and rams and trebuchets will not be used at all. I would say limit 3-6 ladder per keep, and it takes 5-15 second to actually climb up the ladder, to prevent attackers swarm walls like ants.

I actually wish they would freshen this up a bit and like that idea. Add some stones to drop on ladders as well. I even used to like it when DKs could leap onto walls and start attacking the people manning the siege. Maybe there should be a timer if you come in that way or something before it starts huring and you have to jump down.

Oh yea, I as well miss those days when DK could leap on walls and in main keep from outer walls. Good old times.
Back to the idea, I believe possibility of small group of attackers getting into keep before wall si breached would make taking and defending keep more fun. Right now as a defender you just wait inside, siege and wait for opportunity to push outside, as a attacker you wait outside and siege.
Adding another layer of gameplay and giving people more options could make game more fun, if implemented correctly into the game.

That was some fun gameplay. Even though I never played a DK then, it made things interesting. ZOS seems to be taking away interesting gameplay and promoting boring gameplay. I mean siege in its current state (functionally, not considering damage) is super boring, but ZOS is considering making it OP.

Shalktonin

ErMurazor wrote: »

ZoS totally Lost it. Keep it as it is!!!!!!!!!! You are aware ppl dying like flies? IF this is How You want PvP to be im out of here

make sure door doesn't hit you on the way out drama queen

Gnozo

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

mayasunrising wrote: »

I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

I can tell you what happens:

No keeps will get capured due to siege spam that will just wipe the attacker

Players will stack even more for purges and heals increasing lag

A player without purge will insta die to one single oil

Smal groups will be deleted from the game cause they just get sieged down

Please, for the love of gods. Dont even think about. Dont make this game a siege Simulator.

disintegr8

Nice to see something that can wipe out overhealed zergs and bomb squads, just think of the D-ticks.

Laying siege should not just be about stacking at the front door, just as defending should not be about having a bomb squad ready to hit the incoming group as soon as the door opens.

Think more about it, start a second breech while everyone is focused elsewhere, make an effort to counter siege the counter siege.

Djiku

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

mayasunrising wrote: »

I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

I really hope you are not considering this. I don't like it at all.

Sandman929

disintegr8 wrote: »

Nice to see something that can wipe out overhealed zergs and bomb squads, just think of the D-ticks.

Laying siege should not just be about stacking at the front door, just as defending should not be about having a bomb squad ready to hit the incoming group as soon as the door opens.

Think more about it, start a second breech while everyone is focused elsewhere, make an effort to counter siege the counter siege.

Hard to do when at most keeps, I'll have to be in range of their siege to hit them with mine...and furthermore, why on Earth is that fun?

Gyra_Lothbrok

For the love of all things holy, DO NOT keep siege the way it is. There are enough 1 click heroes in Cyro, you should not be promoting such brainless gameplay.

eaton68_ESO

Loving this, no fix needed. Lag has been good too ... like something was fixed? #makeseigegreatagain worked!

soniku4ikblis

Fix it.

Gankimus

sha-ext wrote: »

If siege damage is there to stay, zos needs to introduce ladders and allow poeple to climb the walls.

EDIT: To clarify - I think that this double siege damage is more realistic, but its too effective while defending keep from game balance point of view. Adding a ladders to climb the wall would allow attackers get on walls and try to burn sieges.

Of course there has to be some limitation on ladders, otherwise everyone will just build ladder and rams and trebuchets will not be used at all. I would say limit 3-6 ladder per keep, and it takes 5-15 second to actually climb up the ladder, to prevent attackers swarm walls like ants.

Maybe siege towers that roll up to a wall like a ram to the FD? Stairs inside to run up, some nice fiery death trap options. LOS types should get some poles to dance around...

BoraxFlux

I enjoyed it very much, the fight/sieging is much more dynamic, sieges are scary as they should be, no time drinking a beer in a red circle. More use of Siege Shield to counter.
Just played this evening so it might be too short to have a good overall idea, but yes, liked it a lot sofar.

I heard Siege Shield doesn't work properly tho, is that correct?

Xarc

More damages from sieges: yes.
So much : no.

SturgeHammer

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

Probably wouldn’t be horrible if the damage radius was smaller on ballistas. That way it encourages more accuracy on the side of the shooter while giving the target a better chance of getting out of the way.

thedude33

bitels wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

EdoKeledus wrote: »

OIL like every other siege weapon should not be shieldable and should ignore resistances.

Barely anyone will want to pvp if everyone gets dunked by 2 ticks of oil, or essentially 1-shotted if more than 1 oil is on you.

Then how about avoiding the oil AoE?

Lol- pls tell me how can you avoid oil AoE? Especially that you usually have anything between 3-5 on breach. Do you just ask politely other side to stop using it?

I will agree- for a short time it is little bit funny. But the problem with it is that it is way to easy to defend right now, which will make whole Cyrodil stale and only benefit night caping

We took 2 keeps last night. We put up a ram. Used it a few times until oil showed up. Got out of the ram and went to plan B, which is exactly how it should be.

Set up ballistas and trebs and made sure to step out of the siege after firing so we didn't get hit by counter-siege. Let the cooldown expire, get back in.

Much more realistic than ignoring any siege that is hitting you, especially oil .... and defending should be easier than attacking.

thedude33

disintegr8 wrote: »

Nice to see something that can wipe out overhealed zergs and bomb squads, just think of the D-ticks.

Laying siege should not just be about stacking at the front door, just as defending should not be about having a bomb squad ready to hit the incoming group as soon as the door opens.

Think more about it, start a second breech while everyone is focused elsewhere, make an effort to counter siege the counter siege.

Isn't this what the try hard leets always talk about ? gitgud with tactics?

thedude33

kringled_1 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

mayasunrising wrote: »

I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

In noCP a Coldharbour ballista Hit kills anyone within the initial tick and the first or second tick, depending on HP. If that’s the gameplay you want to promote...

Just means you don't have enough health! Plague doctor/warrior poet tank with no damage other than running siege, here I come, just for all the lovers of heavy armor tanks in pvp we have on the forums.
More seriously, I'm not really wild about the prolonged siege battles where you have to punch multiple breaches in a keep, then fire siege through to get defensive siege down, and eventually move in. It tends to come down to attrition, and to promote large stacks at one location which we know doesn't work well.

A siege attack that comes down to attrition. Kind of like how it was when castles and sieges actually happened?

Recremen

thedude33 wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Nice to see something that can wipe out overhealed zergs and bomb squads, just think of the D-ticks.

Laying siege should not just be about stacking at the front door, just as defending should not be about having a bomb squad ready to hit the incoming group as soon as the door opens.

Think more about it, start a second breech while everyone is focused elsewhere, make an effort to counter siege the counter siege.

Isn't this what the try hard leets always talk about ? gitgud with tactics?

If you're really going to play it that way, we're just going to out-point-and-click you. If you weren't good before you're not going to suddenly be good now, and forcing experienced players into your playstyle is just going to show you how much room you have to grow in point-and-click heroism. Have fun getting wrecked by siege every time you go to attack a keep.

Chilly-McFreeze

thedude33 wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

mayasunrising wrote: »

I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

In noCP a Coldharbour ballista Hit kills anyone within the initial tick and the first or second tick, depending on HP. If that’s the gameplay you want to promote...

Just means you don't have enough health! Plague doctor/warrior poet tank with no damage other than running siege, here I come, just for all the lovers of heavy armor tanks in pvp we have on the forums.
More seriously, I'm not really wild about the prolonged siege battles where you have to punch multiple breaches in a keep, then fire siege through to get defensive siege down, and eventually move in. It tends to come down to attrition, and to promote large stacks at one location which we know doesn't work well.

A siege attack that comes down to attrition. Kind of like how it was when castles and sieges actually happened?

Realism - the go-to argument in every high fantasy setting, right?

TBois

Recremen wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Nice to see something that can wipe out overhealed zergs and bomb squads, just think of the D-ticks.

Laying siege should not just be about stacking at the front door, just as defending should not be about having a bomb squad ready to hit the incoming group as soon as the door opens.

Think more about it, start a second breech while everyone is focused elsewhere, make an effort to counter siege the counter siege.

Isn't this what the try hard leets always talk about ? gitgud with tactics?

If you're really going to play it that way, we're just going to out-point-and-click you. If you weren't good before you're not going to suddenly be good now, and forcing experienced players into your playstyle is just going to show you how much room you have to grow in point-and-click heroism. Have fun getting wrecked by siege every time you go to attack a keep.

im all for making keeps requiring more tactics and more time to take, but using this method is boring af. Seige is literally, as you say, point and click. There is not much more depth besides that. If they want siege to be more impactful at least make it interesting to use. As it is now we will all die of boredom after a month.

geonsocal

love it when folks say just don't stand in red...

not sure about everyone else, but, maybe there's some ground indicator for siege like 20% of the time...the other 80%, no indication at all that siege is hitting - right where I happen to be standing or moving...

Recremen

geonsocal wrote: »

love it when folks say just don't stand in red...

not sure about everyone else, but, maybe there's some ground indicator for siege like 20% of the time...the other 80%, no indication at all that siege is hitting - right where I happen to be standing or moving...

It's your fault for wanting to do things. You should have stayed at your keep and waited for the other factions to come to YOU so that YOU could be the one laughing at how effective it is to stand perfectly still and spam siege. What exciting and emergent gameplay!

Toc de Malsvi

SturgeHammer wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

Probably wouldn’t be horrible if the damage radius was smaller on ballistas. That way it encourages more accuracy on the side of the shooter while giving the target a better chance of getting out of the way.

They should do damage scaling based on position to the center of the damage. Stand in the center of a trebuchet blast get deleted, move the outer edge and take regular siege damage comparable to last several patches.

twitch_zero

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

mayasunrising wrote: »

I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

@ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

Please no, powerful siege promotes skillless anti pvp play.