OILS NOT SHIELDABLE AND DOING 18K DMG PER TICK

JumpmanLane

Like everything broken, that stuff doesn’t make you good. The siege hits WAY too hard

Qbiken wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I dare you to place siege in front of me in open field, you will be dead as fast as my gap closer gets me to you.

Sure, I'll just shoot the coldfire ballista right at my feet and give u a nice 15k dot/sec, so unless you're a templar or decided to slot purge you're rip

Neoauspex wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

All the Lil Zerglings on siege NEED to look behind them. Lol. and learn to fight.

Zerglings in Earthgore puddles need to learn tactics.

I don’t run earthgore or in a ball Zerg. I run lone wolf style.

You don’t need to drop siege in an open field to fight a ball Zerg. Lol.

IzzyStardust

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Buzo wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just to clear things up - when it was said that this is something we're discussing, it wasn't to keep siege's currently-broken state. Just that we're talking about potentially increasing the damage of siege from how it's been. Again, nothing set it stone, we're just talking like you all are.

All the zerglings that had their hopes up:

LOL you really wish. The zerglings are the most harmed by this effect, most likely to be in a large group, most likely to stand in bad, least able to coordinate and avoid siege. Propaganda at its finest.

I'm sure the random zerglings popping siege was the most devastating, not an organized group of 4 or more than can time their ballista launch to devastate a whole region.

So glad you said it. We ALL know what 'type' doesn't like this change, they know too. ;-)

Lylith

technohic wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Siege weapons are definitly not the only thing they broke
Made me laugh so hard by the way

So thats the guy in the waiting room in Beetlejuice.

beat me to it.

Mayrael

After week of playing both on Vivec and Sotha these are my thoughts:
- It's not so bad. After 3-4 deaths from sieges I have learned how to counter them now, TBH it's even easier for me now than it used to be (I've survived 2 simultaneous cold fire hits + player on my back), since then I died just a few times because of sieges - when I was paying not enough attention aka my bad.

- Coordinated siege fire finally is dangerous even against ball groups. With my friend we were able to coordinate our siege fire so it really was deadly for those groups. Ironically single player with a bit of knowledge, reflex and skill can avoid death from it. Nothing stops ball groups from doing the same but it seems that they are lacking some of above traits if they die because of siege fire. Who is really skill less?


- After all this doesn't look so bad, keeps are being taken and defended. Bad players die faster while good ones adapted almost immediately. There is much less "wanna be ball groups", just the really good ones left and they deserve respect.

anatole1234

You can't even mist it either

JamilaRaj

Well, the age of ballista has ended. Skilled players can once again skillfully wade right through red circles unscathed, impervious to any damage from wet noodle launchers.

JumpmanLane

Lol guess that end the Artillery Division Lol.

Mayrael

Aaand gues what? After not having any issues with ping spikes or something like that today I have constant spikes and kicks from Cyrodiil... No correlation at all with ball groups (riiiight).

JumpmanLane

Mayrael wrote: »

Aaand gues what? After not having any issues with ping spikes or something like that today I have constant spikes and kicks from Cyrodiil... No correlation at all with ball groups (riiiight).

You’re luckier than me, first I gotta use a VPN just to download this crap and now I get fatal error 6 and have to repair. If they hadn’t broken siege would there have even been a patch this week?

gezginrocker

Mayrael wrote: »

Aaand gues what? After not having any issues with ping spikes or something like that today I have constant spikes and kicks from Cyrodiil... No correlation at all with ball groups (riiiight).

On Sunday night patch wasn't released yet, and I was still getting disconnected randomly and the ping was peaking 999+ on EU. So it has nothing to with the siege bug or ball groups, it is the usual ZOS impotence.

Wildberryjack

I'd rather they didn't fix this. It's way more fun even when on the other end of it. Makes us pay more attention and play better. Prefer it this way.

Mayrael

gezginrocker wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Aaand gues what? After not having any issues with ping spikes or something like that today I have constant spikes and kicks from Cyrodiil... No correlation at all with ball groups (riiiight).

On Sunday night patch wasn't released yet, and I was still getting disconnected randomly and the ping was peaking 999+ on EU. So it has nothing to with the siege bug or ball groups, it is the usual ZOS impotence.

Not for me. It was runing perfectly smooth on my side. But today? We can say I have rage quited because of performance.

Somnilux

In my personal opinion the best way to fix siege would be to do the following:

Increase time it takes to set up and take down siege to 10s. This way it isn't just busted out in field combat, requires tactics and forethought, and requires more time and can be interrupted. This also gives a little more siege time for a group hitting an empty keep that just 'one guard' is there, and that one person can't just bust out multiple coldfire and hold off an entire raid, but could still take out a small group.

In my opinion this is the best way to make it a specific keep tactics thing instead of affecting open field combat which is what most people I've talked with hated about the current change.

Next, make specific siege unpurgable. Yes, this is going to hurt, and I'll get pushback here, but I think its the best way to solve things: We already have a tool for reducing damage from siege, siege shield. This should reduce all damage from countersiege and allows for group coordination, but is expensive, can't be spammed and serves the exact purpose we want. However, right now its much easier for a coordinated group with siege spammers to purge oils and siege off, making countersiege not enormously effective without significant damage buffs, and encourages an already in my personal opinion broken and boring mechanic (mind you, I'm a healer than slots purge and uses it frequently). It also means you are reducing the tactical use of purge to remove CCs and other things because siege dots are eating many of the purge casts. At the very minimum, oils should not be purgable, but I think in general all siege damage should not be and should be tuned around it.

This means that solo players who don't have purge or their class doesn't give a cheap personal purge (magdens and templars come to mind), that they're not significantly worse off about a single hit from countersiege. It may be that the fire rate of fire ballista and catapults needs to be increased but the damage over time reduced to make the tradeoff make sense. So that you can stack a whole bunch of countersiege dots on people from multiple hits and each stack adds up, but individual hits do not. This is an area that would require testing obviously.

Additionally, I like the idea of using some more differentiation on defenses from different catapults and ballista beyond the current design. I did not enjoy the oblivion-damage style of siege where it ignored every tool in a toolbox to reduce damage, but the idea of some piece going through major evasion (lets say scattershot), while oil ignoring armor, and lightning ignoring protection effects might help differentiate and make the type of damage you're taking something you need to pay attention to. I'm not as certain of a change like this, but it feels like the kind of interesting mechanic many people could get behind if it is explained clearly in game and maybe even given tutorial prompts to players being hit by it.

What do people think about this kind of shift? I know my perspective as playing largely in groups will affect my views, but I think this would be the most elegant way to handle things without constant iteration.

gezginrocker

Mayrael wrote: »

gezginrocker wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Aaand gues what? After not having any issues with ping spikes or something like that today I have constant spikes and kicks from Cyrodiil... No correlation at all with ball groups (riiiight).

On Sunday night patch wasn't released yet, and I was still getting disconnected randomly and the ping was peaking 999+ on EU. So it has nothing to with the siege bug or ball groups, it is the usual ZOS impotence.

Not for me. It was runing perfectly smooth on my side. But today? We can say I have rage quited because of performance.

Like yesterday, today I also got disconnected countless times after the patch. And now (11:30pm GMT) I can't even login to EU, it is giving error. I highly doubt ball groups are responsible for that. I blame the usual suspects, server hamsters.

Also, I suggest you to do PVE while you rage quitted PVP. And I'm sure you'll get disconnected even in PVE, because it is definitely a server problem.

TheBonesXXX

Mayrael wrote: »

After week of playing both on Vivec and Sotha these are my thoughts:
- It's not so bad. After 3-4 deaths from sieges I have learned how to counter them now, TBH it's even easier for me now than it used to be (I've survived 2 simultaneous cold fire hits + player on my back), since then I died just a few times because of sieges - when I was paying not enough attention aka my bad.

- Coordinated siege fire finally is dangerous even against ball groups. With my friend we were able to coordinate our siege fire so it really was deadly for those groups. Ironically single player with a bit of knowledge, reflex and skill can avoid death from it. Nothing stops ball groups from doing the same but it seems that they are lacking some of above traits if they die because of siege fire. Who is really skill less?


- After all this doesn't look so bad, keeps are being taken and defended. Bad players die faster while good ones adapted almost immediately. There is much less "wanna be ball groups", just the really good ones left and they deserve respect.

It was never bad anytime siege was powerful. It's just forum QQ usually wins out over anything.

"Skilled" Roaming Potato Bowls..

Minno

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

After week of playing both on Vivec and Sotha these are my thoughts:
- It's not so bad. After 3-4 deaths from sieges I have learned how to counter them now, TBH it's even easier for me now than it used to be (I've survived 2 simultaneous cold fire hits + player on my back), since then I died just a few times because of sieges - when I was paying not enough attention aka my bad.

- Coordinated siege fire finally is dangerous even against ball groups. With my friend we were able to coordinate our siege fire so it really was deadly for those groups. Ironically single player with a bit of knowledge, reflex and skill can avoid death from it. Nothing stops ball groups from doing the same but it seems that they are lacking some of above traits if they die because of siege fire. Who is really skill less?


- After all this doesn't look so bad, keeps are being taken and defended. Bad players die faster while good ones adapted almost immediately. There is much less "wanna be ball groups", just the really good ones left and they deserve respect.

It was never bad anytime siege was powerful. It's just forum QQ usually wins out over anything.

"Skilled" Roaming Potato Bowls..

The only time in the history of MMOs where a company accidentally solved lag issues only to revert the changes lol.

thedude33

That's unfortunate.

Jhalin

Don’t ya love when zerglings get their way?

TheBonesXXX

Minno wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

After week of playing both on Vivec and Sotha these are my thoughts:
- It's not so bad. After 3-4 deaths from sieges I have learned how to counter them now, TBH it's even easier for me now than it used to be (I've survived 2 simultaneous cold fire hits + player on my back), since then I died just a few times because of sieges - when I was paying not enough attention aka my bad.

- Coordinated siege fire finally is dangerous even against ball groups. With my friend we were able to coordinate our siege fire so it really was deadly for those groups. Ironically single player with a bit of knowledge, reflex and skill can avoid death from it. Nothing stops ball groups from doing the same but it seems that they are lacking some of above traits if they die because of siege fire. Who is really skill less?


- After all this doesn't look so bad, keeps are being taken and defended. Bad players die faster while good ones adapted almost immediately. There is much less "wanna be ball groups", just the really good ones left and they deserve respect.

It was never bad anytime siege was powerful. It's just forum QQ usually wins out over anything.

"Skilled" Roaming Potato Bowls..

The only time in the history of MMOs where a company accidentally solved lag issues only to revert the changes lol.

Loooool. No kidding, problem is I only want to play Elder Scrolls or Asherons Call.

So I'm foolish enough to stick around.

thedude33

What a joke. Over and over today the zerglings all stack underneath 6 oil and have zero fear. Completely takes the fun away from trying to defend.

6 oil + timestops + negates should really eff up blobs of people all stacked together. It did for a while, but no longer.

Ackwalan

thedude33 wrote: »

What a joke. Over and over today the zerglings all stack underneath 6 oil and have zero fear. Completely takes the fun away from trying to defend.

6 oil + timestops + negates should really eff up blobs of people all stacked together. It did for a while, but no longer.

It does seem like ZOS not only "fixed" the siege to where it was, but made it weaker then before.

JumpmanLane

Siege could do with a buff but not a one shot or two-tick two shot buff. It shouldn’t be broken to the point people were dropping it in an open field.

I had a LONG 1v1 with a warden outside a Keep. Basically gave up because he kept popping trees. Caught him inside the Keep by the posturn and killed him when I got trapped in his Keep after it flipped. He ran out a second time and dropped siege to fight me again on the POSTURN STEPS. Killed him again and thought wtf.