OILS NOT SHIELDABLE AND DOING 18K DMG PER TICK

  • Ralamil
    Ralamil
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    That's easy

    1. Siege in immobile

    1. You can hop off of it and move around if absolute need be.
    2. You can actually reposition it if need be, and most likely will have the opportunity to do so, either by being one of many laying down siege against an opposing group, safely up on keep walls (or other terrain, I suppose), or both, at least in some fights.
    Xsorus wrote: »
    2. You cannot use any other ability while operating siege

    1. Anyone worth their salt can keep a volley of three ballistae going continuously.
    2. Let's be honest, the use-case for these things isn't going to be 1 player vs. 60. It's going to be multiple players, grouped or otherwise, vs. another group of players. You don't need to be able to use another skill while you're all safely at range hitting for 18k per shot.

    Meanwhile, pumping out all of this damage over a wide area with the reload time as your only cooldown, you could be safely out of range or elevated in a position players cannot get to you (ever since ZOS deemed things like leaping onto keep walls emergent gameplay bannable offenses), and in the most defensive setup one could imagine, which otherwise would be incapable of dealing damage if you had to rely on your own skill and skills.

    So if we're going for terse responses: Cute post, but ultimately your reply responds effectively to literally none of my points, particularly those over trying to make Cyrodiil game play healthy, engaging, and rewarding.
    Karn Wild-Blood - PC NA AD Nord Warden
  • LoreToo
    LoreToo
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    I realy hope that siges not count as pets with char stats
  • Rygonix
    Rygonix
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    I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

    Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.
    I do admit that siege was a bit weak after the multiple buffs to siege weapon shield, and could use buffs. It'd be nice if we could get a happy medium where siege isn't cheesier than a Kraft factory, but isn't such a pushover that I could literally have 4 stacks of oils ticking and survive.


    Ceres Des Mortem-Dark Elf Templar, EP
    PC-NA 810+CP
  • CompM4s
    CompM4s
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    Stay out of the red circles...
  • fullheartcontainer
    fullheartcontainer
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    I keep seeing this "oh, I actually like the siege thing. It makes defense fun and you can't just flip keeps every two seconds"

    Yeah, it's kind of funny and amusing to do so much brainless damage, but it gets old. Here's the real issue people seem to be forgetting though - there are players that play off prime-time; they will take your keeps when there is no defense, then prime-time is gonna come and suddenly all these same braindead players that want to one-shot everything will be whining because they are getting one-shot and can't take their keeps back
  • kypranb14_ESO
    kypranb14_ESO
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    From a Light Armor Perspective in Battlegrounds - PVP is twice as fun now. 12k Spectral Bow Procs without stealth are awesome. XD
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    Was playing with guildies yesterday on Sotha. Boy did this abuse catch on fast. You couldn’t go for 10 meters until some random dropped down a ballista, even on open field. It’s ridiculous.
    Main characters:
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  • JumpmanLane
    JumpmanLane
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    I had 2 cold fire ballista from Midyear. Fired it at some fools siegeind a door. They melted.
    Witch up, lil' witches!
  • Bergzorn
    Bergzorn
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    CompM4s wrote: »
    Stay out of the red circles...

    But for some reason that damn circles often follow me around and won't stay out of me! It's nearly like players are trying deliberately to hit me.
    Edited by Bergzorn on February 27, 2019 8:02AM
    PC/EU Sotha Sil

    EP Zergborn
    DC Wobbling Disaster

    guild master, raid leader, janitor, and only member of Zergbored
  • SilverPaws
    SilverPaws
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    Instead of making op sieges remove that earthgore noob crutch set and all will be better.
  • Mr_Walker
    Mr_Walker
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    I'm looking forward to a weeks time when zerglings have figured this all out, and the same players who are squealing with delight now are crying about how they can't even capture one lousy keep because zergs* are one-shotting them all with OP siege weps.

    Gamers.... :/

    * Zerg is of course defined as "any group larger than the one I'm currently in".
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    technohic wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    Bosov wrote: »
    I wonder if the people who want the siege change to stay like this are also the players who use snipe. Press one button over and over and get big rewards (kills) without taking any risk because you are in a safe spot.

    Zos made this whole combat system and still people who just want to click.. not even point and click but only click.

    For me, it is how effective on masses of players that otherwise have so many heals and purges flying around that siege does nothing. I find smaller groups are more able to move out of the way. Not because of collision detection we dont have, but rather because they are not sheep waiting for their Sheppard to tell them to move.

    Its somewhat an inconvenience to have to move so easily because of a red circle and I did see players throwing up siege for things like smaller groups and open field fights; but I feel the benefit is outweighing that. The group I run with also has 1 night a week where we run PvEers and newer players, and that might be called off as we know the challenge that will come keeping them alive in this.

    Do you want to force people into going back to the days of epic wall sieges 20 trebuchets deep, or let them keep PvDooring? Cause the later is much more instant grat.

    Im not sure what you are asking but I think having a reason to use trebs is not so bad. They generally do not get used because they are slower and take up more space, but it might compel people for the range.

    Sorry I was meaning to reply to what Bosov said.
    CP1,100+ Master Explorer - AvA Prefect - Console Peasant

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  • thedude33
    thedude33
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    Recremen wrote: »
    thedude33 wrote: »
    thedude33 wrote: »
    kringled_1 wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

    Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

    In noCP a Coldharbour ballista Hit kills anyone within the initial tick and the first or second tick, depending on HP. If that’s the gameplay you want to promote...
    Just means you don't have enough health! Plague doctor/warrior poet tank with no damage other than running siege, here I come, just for all the lovers of heavy armor tanks in pvp we have on the forums.
    More seriously, I'm not really wild about the prolonged siege battles where you have to punch multiple breaches in a keep, then fire siege through to get defensive siege down, and eventually move in. It tends to come down to attrition, and to promote large stacks at one location which we know doesn't work well.

    A siege attack that comes down to attrition. Kind of like how it was when castles and sieges actually happened?

    Realism - the go-to argument in every high fantasy setting, right?

    I wouldn't go with realism as much as common sense. I don't believe 25 people standing under hot oil, and surviving, is great game design.

    Taking a keep should be tougher than killing a mudcrab.

    "A little hot oil should instantly murder people, but also it's totally normal to be alive after getting shot with six arrows, or cut by a full-force axe swing, or struck by lightning. Also I have a terrible understanding for how difficult it is to take a keep or the fact that multi-raid faction fights regularly occur at them several times an hour."

    Y'all are betraying your complete lack of understanding for even basic Cyrodiil dynamics.

    What are you going on about?

    It's a difference of opinion. Get over yourself. I don't like ineffectual siege. I also don't like Justin Bieber. I guess we disagree on both.
    1v1 Win/Loss Record in PvP.
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  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    The future of 1vX montages will be one dude killing 8 others with a coldfire ballista.
    Retired werewolf player, currently getting carried by whatever the FOTM is

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  • MikaHR
    MikaHR
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    1st rule of cyrodiil: siege EVERTYHING....even open field.

    When you see a enemy player...put down siege IMMEDITALETY and one shot him. Unless he saw you forst and has put down siege faster than you and one shotted you. Such fun.

    There wasnt a skirmish yesteday that didnt involve couple of sieges on both sides irrelevant of number of players involved.

    This will just encourage MORE zerging....because the more siege wins.
    Edited by MikaHR on February 27, 2019 9:50AM
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    thedude33 wrote: »
    thedude33 wrote: »
    kringled_1 wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

    Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

    In noCP a Coldharbour ballista Hit kills anyone within the initial tick and the first or second tick, depending on HP. If that’s the gameplay you want to promote...
    Just means you don't have enough health! Plague doctor/warrior poet tank with no damage other than running siege, here I come, just for all the lovers of heavy armor tanks in pvp we have on the forums.
    More seriously, I'm not really wild about the prolonged siege battles where you have to punch multiple breaches in a keep, then fire siege through to get defensive siege down, and eventually move in. It tends to come down to attrition, and to promote large stacks at one location which we know doesn't work well.

    A siege attack that comes down to attrition. Kind of like how it was when castles and sieges actually happened?

    Realism - the go-to argument in every high fantasy setting, right?

    I wouldn't go with realism as much as common sense. I don't believe 25 people standing under hot oil, and surviving, is great game design.

    Taking a keep should be tougher than killing a mudcrab.

    I invite you to no-CP, where people actually died to oil even before this stupid bug. That facetanking must be a cp thing.
  • FakeZavos
    FakeZavos
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    thedude33 wrote: »
    thedude33 wrote: »
    kringled_1 wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

    Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

    In noCP a Coldharbour ballista Hit kills anyone within the initial tick and the first or second tick, depending on HP. If that’s the gameplay you want to promote...
    Just means you don't have enough health! Plague doctor/warrior poet tank with no damage other than running siege, here I come, just for all the lovers of heavy armor tanks in pvp we have on the forums.
    More seriously, I'm not really wild about the prolonged siege battles where you have to punch multiple breaches in a keep, then fire siege through to get defensive siege down, and eventually move in. It tends to come down to attrition, and to promote large stacks at one location which we know doesn't work well.

    A siege attack that comes down to attrition. Kind of like how it was when castles and sieges actually happened?

    Realism - the go-to argument in every high fantasy setting, right?

    I wouldn't go with realism as much as common sense. I don't believe 25 people standing under hot oil, and surviving, is great game design.

    Taking a keep should be tougher than killing a mudcrab.

    I invite you to no-CP, where people actually died to oil even before this stupid bug. That facetanking must be a cp thing.

    I dont get how everyone thinks this is good? A good organised group should be able to survive siege, with purge and heals. Otherwise you are gonna make it impossible for a "smaller" group to take an outpost for example. What are they supposed to do then? Join the already massive zergs and roll around the map? Can siege use a little buff, maybe, probrably not. Organised siege is already super strong. I think people need to remember that still some kind of skill would be nice in a PvP zone. Whiping for example a 10 man group by putting 1 ballista and 2 oils is way over the top. And for people who use realism as a good referance, burning oil doesnt kill a man on impact, it takes a while, and if in the realism moment he would have a purge, he wouldve been fine, as it should be in game too.
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  • FakeZavos
    FakeZavos
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    This bug finally exposed some trash pretending to be good. Good players fight other good players. When exploiters die to a broken thing - it is justice. Did you really think you are the only so special to farm AP using every broken thing in this game? When two full raids come to ram a nearly empty keep and die to 3 coldfires - it is justice. Because this is how siege weapons should work against zergs.
    It's the 3rd day of the best bug ever after broken caltrops years ago. Lets see who will be able to learn. Simple things - do not ram till the oils fixed. Do not stand as a fkn statue while sieging letting "left-clickers" simply burn you. Do not gather huge zergs, this still cause lag spikes and prevents you from notice you are exactly in red area of incoming siege hit. Remember - you are not special, we are all equal before oils. But some purge.

    Arent you just exploiting as much as the "2 full raids"? Using broken siege to gain an unfair advantage?

    I agree, the multiple full raids stacking on 1 semiempty keep is stupid. But that doesnt mean 1 guy with 2 sieges should be able to whipe them. Something should be done to unstack groups like that. Make siege like proxy det for example, the more you hit, the higher the damage. But think from it as from my perspective. Im playing in a 2-6 man group on average. We try to stay between 2 enemy lines (im EP, nikkel/roe farm is my home). So lets say we are 4 man. 10 man AD and 10 man DC show up. Normally we would be able to fight both groups for quite a long time, and with a bit of luck and some good timing, we might even be able to kill some of em.

    Now here comes the joke. We are still 4 people, we walk upto the keep, we see 6 AD standing around the keep, start fighting. Having fun but at 1 point, we die. All 4, instantly. We check our recap, and somebody decided to place 2 coldfires and fire them at the same time. Like, how are we supposed to fight anymore? We try to split the zergs up a bit by going between enemy factions, to get some fun fights. But the last 2 days have just been about dodging siege then acually fighting.

    So many "zerglings" always used to cry about ballgroups, and you they destroyed their way of playing the game. Yet they are doing the exact same now to smallscalers (or lets call them exploiters cuz apperently thats what all smallscalers are) for example.
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  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

    Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

    Sounds like a great time to try CP PvP then.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 27, 2019 10:32AM
  • FakeZavos
    FakeZavos
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    I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

    Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

    This is a joke right @ZOS_GinaBruno? If you keep it like this, or only fix it a bit you are gonna destroy any form of smallscale left. Cyrodiil is litteraly gonna be 1 big ball of zergs. And we all know how your servers handle big zergs ey?

    On a serius note, if you realy are considereing sieges, just get it back to how it was, and then put a buff on it like proxy det. 10% more dmg per enemy hit or smth. That way siege can be used by smaller groups to defend themselfs against huge groups, and can still be way more effective in a ZergvZerg guildfight. And on top of that, it doesnt *** up smallscale groups too much.

    Please be very carefull with buffing siege, like I said, its litteraly kill 100% of whats left of the smallscalers if you keep it like this.
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  • Raudgrani
    Raudgrani
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    Thing is, you're not supposed to stand in flaming oils. They hurt. This was a way of dealing with attackers in real life too. Hot oils or hot sand, it made people stay clear of passages and doors of castles. That was the point. In this game, make sure someone - or preferably a few people - have Siege Shield, or simply use ranged siege.

    I've seen people complaining about ballistas being too powerful. I'm like "Ehum... Ok." When Romans started to fire those through Celtic and Germanic front lines, it punched through several lines of infantry. I'm sure you understand it's pretty likely fatal. If anything, siege damage should be increased. Perhaps we would see more actual SIEGE and COUNTER siege then? Instead of two full groups laying siege with a ram and 4 ballistas, the rest on both sides either running around without any regard at all, or light attacking one another for 10 minutes straight - because "siege is boring".

    And yes btw. 12k shield minus a 18k damage tick, that's 6k more than your shield can take. Just as a sidenote....
  • FakeZavos
    FakeZavos
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    Raudgrani wrote: »
    Thing is, you're not supposed to stand in flaming oils. They hurt. This was a way of dealing with attackers in real life too. Hot oils or hot sand, it made people stay clear of passages and doors of castles. That was the point. In this game, make sure someone - or preferably a few people - have Siege Shield, or simply use ranged siege.

    I've seen people complaining about ballistas being too powerful. I'm like "Ehum... Ok." When Romans started to fire those through Celtic and Germanic front lines, it punched through several lines of infantry. I'm sure you understand it's pretty likely fatal. If anything, siege damage should be increased. Perhaps we would see more actual SIEGE and COUNTER siege then? Instead of two full groups laying siege with a ram and 4 ballistas, the rest on both sides either running around without any regard at all, or light attacking one another for 10 minutes straight - because "siege is boring".

    And yes btw. 12k shield minus a 18k damage tick, that's 6k more than your shield can take. Just as a sidenote....

    But this is a game, not real life. Were game balance should be considered. As said above here. I like to play with a small group and fight bigger numbers. Like, 5 of mine vs 15 of the other. With great coordination and teamwork those fights should be doable. Yet atm, I cant even walk upto a keep to fight 1 other dude before getting hit with 6 siege. Normally that would be hard to stay alive in it, but fine. With proper dodging and strong healing I could survive it. Now, I cant even survive 1 hit. The impact dmg in 9/10 times too high to even survive anything. Throw realism away for now, its a game, not real life. How is this balanced/good for every party involved. I know people only think about the game the way they play it. And apperently every other opinion doesnt matter because it doesnt fit they playstyle. Thats why I said, lets make siege like proxy det. Everyone happy.
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  • heng14rwb17_ESO
    heng14rwb17_ESO
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    GO OIL OR GO CRY !
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    And yes btw. 12k shield minus a 18k damage tick, that's 6k more than your shield can take. Just as a sidenote....

    Just as a side note, you’re going to take the full 18k at the moment regardless of shields. Btw.

    And if we’re so totally into realism, I’d expect you need 15 people at least to carry 1 siege weapon and assembling it takes a few hours at least. Sounds fun.
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 41 - Stormproof (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial Necromancer (lvl 8)
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Vidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDK
    Marquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - Stormproof
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 1000+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on Bahlokdaan PC EU.
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    The future of 1vX montages will be one dude killing 8 others with a coldfire ballista.

    In all honesty siege should be a deadly thing, it adds to the ''sandbox'' part of ESO which is already weak. I don't use siege for anything other than breaking keep doors personally and I don't look at this problem from a biased perspective because I don't want the game to meet my fantasies of outnumbered combat nor am I one of those siege pilots who do nothing else but obsess over their collection of coldfire ballistas.

    I embrace the change if it stays, standing under oil is well, dumb. You should most definitely suffer if you get hit by it. Siege shield must be definitely slotted if a group of 6 wants to ram a gate.

    However if these changes stay , it would definitely require some tweaking, coldfire sieges for example could even use a nerf to their rate of fire to give them a meaningful choice rather than being a straight upgrade for everything.

    And if they fix everything back to how it once was... Well, then still not much changes for me other than a missed chance at an opportunity to make cyrodiil more interesting.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 27, 2019 11:18AM
  • iALEXi
    iALEXi
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    I might say for Vivec it might be more interesting, as sieges normally do almost nothing in Vivec.
    In Sotha the sieges are stronger than in Vivec and now it's a bit out of hand.
    Edited by iALEXi on February 27, 2019 11:44AM
    @iALEXi
    Guild: The Kiradashians, Guild Master
    Discord: The Kiradashians, Owner

    Battlegrounds - Sotha Sil - Ebonheart Pact - PC EU
    1. EP - Dark elf - Magicka Dragonknight [Main][PvE] Tank
    2. EP - Breton - Magicka Sorcerer [PvE] Damage
    3. EP - Khajiit - Stamina Warden - Kira of Ebonheart [PvP][PvE] Damage
    4. EP - Wood elf - Stamina Nightblade [PvP] Damage + Werewolf
    5. EP - High elf - Magicka Templar [PvP] Healer
    6. EP - Dark elf - Magicka Nightblade [PvP][PvE] Bomber + Healer + BG healer
    7. EP - Orc - Stamina Sorcerer [lvl 13]
    8. AD - Redguard - Stamina Warden [PvP][PvE]
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