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Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

  • Hand_Bacon
    Hand_Bacon
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    I don't understand what's to argue hear, already there are ten polls where people who don't own bosmers agree that bosmer changes are stupid, bad both for gameplay and for lore..

    It wouldn't matter if there were a thousand polls, wouldn't make it more or less correct in different people's eyes.
  • Hand_Bacon
    Hand_Bacon
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    *Issue was sorted by the better parts of our nature*

    Edited by Hand_Bacon on February 28, 2019 5:47PM
  • wedgebert
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    Hand_Bacon wrote: »
    I don't understand what's to argue hear, already there are ten polls where people who don't own bosmers agree that bosmer changes are stupid, bad both for gameplay and for lore..

    It wouldn't matter if there were a thousand polls, wouldn't make it more or less correct in different people's eyes.

    Again, you're really comparing apples to . The majority of people aren't asking to have the dodge roll removed (despite it requiring something incredibly niche to use effectively).

    We want the stupid stealth detection removed and replaced with our old better at hiding stealth bonus.

    You can keep your dodge roll buff that is an active decrease in damage if used offensively since you would get more damage from a single use of any attack power than from the extra penetration (and you'll use less stamina to boot). Not to mention that penetration doesn't work on shields or against blocks.

  • Hand_Bacon
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    Hey, man <3

    I get that you like the new passive. I'm just sad that so many can't put it to use. If they had replaced the stealth passive with literally anything that could have been useful in PvE, I would be a bit more behind it than I am right now. Maybe even a skill that was different in PvE and PvP? (don't know how that would work, though)

    I just don't understand why this passive has been made to be useless to anyone who doesn't enjoy PvP.

    That would be an interesting idea, but I don't know if I trust ESO to pull something like that off without some odd complications. Like I stated before I'd be for the return of the stealth passive but I'm not ready to give up the new to get it personally. Doesn't mean anyone needs to feel the same way. :)

    I wondering if its pve application will come. It may seem far-fetched and odd to change it at a time before the applicable content. Maybe since they were doing a big racial update. I don't know, maybe a glimmer of hope for everyone else.
  • Hand_Bacon
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    wedgebert wrote: »
    Hand_Bacon wrote: »
    I don't understand what's to argue hear, already there are ten polls where people who don't own bosmers agree that bosmer changes are stupid, bad both for gameplay and for lore..

    It wouldn't matter if there were a thousand polls, wouldn't make it more or less correct in different people's eyes.

    Again, you're really comparing apples to . The majority of people aren't asking to have the dodge roll removed (despite it requiring something incredibly niche to use effectively).

    We want the stupid stealth detection removed and replaced with our old better at hiding stealth bonus.

    You can keep your dodge roll buff that is an active decrease in damage if used offensively since you would get more damage from a single use of any attack power than from the extra penetration (and you'll use less stamina to boot). Not to mention that penetration doesn't work on shields or against blocks.

    I get your point. The way I see it, the roll dodge, is not as "in place of x" but "in addition to". There are a number of things to dodge in combat anyway so why not get up with increased pen etc? That's part of my experience anyway.

    My objection to the polls was on the quantity being introduced as a substitute or evidence of merit. I'd do the same thing if we were literally talking about apples vs oranges. Merit is determined by the individual, the number of people that feel one way or another about it should not factor in to the individual's determination.

  • anadandy
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    @BlueRaven - to answer your earlier question about Pax East
    Will we see you at our next #BethesdaDays event? Join the ESO team on March 29th and 30th at Laugh Boston & MJ O’Connors.

    Play Elsweyr for the first time, win swag, and meet other members of the community! No #PAXEast badge necessary.

  • BlueRaven
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    anadandy wrote: »
    @BlueRaven - to answer your earlier question about Pax East
    Will we see you at our next #BethesdaDays event? Join the ESO team on March 29th and 30th at Laugh Boston & MJ O’Connors.

    Play Elsweyr for the first time, win swag, and meet other members of the community! No #PAXEast badge necessary.


    Thanks!

  • Hand_Bacon
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    All your hand-waving and word-twisting mean nothing. Even your examples mean nothing. When you would scout, would you set off in your dress uniforms, accompanied by your marching bands and bagpipers, along with your honor guard's banners waving high? I have to doubt you'd be terribly effective. Hey, maybe scouts need to be stealthy. Some of my attitude may reflect my naval background. The only way to be stealthy at sea is not to be looking. Radars, sonar, and radios off; because when you are looking you can be seen much farther away than you will ever be able to detect anything.

    Talk about humpty dumpty logic. No school today?

    I get it, you're flustered and I'm just having a conversation. Odd that you would attempt to act condescending towards conversation in such a childish manner. There is nothing up my sleeve, no slight of hand tricks, I'm just having a conversation.

    Edited by Hand_Bacon on February 28, 2019 4:58PM
  • Jaraal
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    Hand_Bacon wrote: »
    I wondering if its pve application will come. It may seem far-fetched and odd to change it at a time before the applicable content. Maybe since they were doing a big racial update. I don't know, maybe a glimmer of hope for everyone else.

    You may be on to something here. Would not surprise me in the least if ZOS is waiting for everyone to use their free race change tokens to swap out their crippled Bosmer toons for something else, and then later introduce something that makes wood elves relevant again. And then:

    “For the next 24 hours, we are offering two for one race change tokens in the crown store! Go back to being the stealthy Bosmer we intended from the beginning! And for the next hour, we are offering a 5% discount to ESO Plus subscribers!”
    Edited by Jaraal on February 28, 2019 5:47PM
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • Eiron77
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    Hand_Bacon wrote: »
    Eiron77 wrote: »
    You've stated multiple times you don't like stealth play. Which is fine.

    WHOA! I've never stated this and it'd do you good to correct yourself.

    lol I've actually stated the opposite.

    wow

    Yep, I think you're right. I got mixed up with a different thread from last night. I removed that portion from my comment.

    But, my point still stands that there is an easy compromise to satisfy everyone.

    But until then you're just hitting your head against a brick wall trying to convince us to just be satisfied with what they did to wood elves. And vice-versa.
  • Hand_Bacon
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    @KMarble

    I'm not saying there shouldn't be a discussion about it. By all means complain. I think it suits all of our purposes to do so when it is done without doomsday hyperbolic rhetoric which creates false narratives or the impression of 100% solidarity.

    I've stated a couple times now that the return of that passive is not something I object to, but I don't "personally" want it to REPLACE the new passive. That's why I've chosen to engage in conversation about it. I would hope, that those who are in woe over the loss of that passive would find a way to make hay while the sun is shining in a different direction. Wanting everyone to feel despair and grief is something I'll never sign on with. I've handed out agrees and insightfuls to those in opposition when I find merit in counter arguments. Its possible to find merit, agree with logical process, and appreciate arguments that one doesn't agree with totally.

    Sometimes its like I'm a heretic for just wanting conversation and pointing out when things cross the line.
  • Hand_Bacon
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    Arato wrote: »

    It's meters though, about melee range difference. If you get within melee range of enemies they spot you even with both sets, with both sets and racial bonus you can almost walk on top of them. If there's a normal sized hallway with a guard on either side of it, they will spot you now while wearing both sets.

    So we are talking with 7 medium and both set bonuses? I thought the beginning point was like 6m from behind and 14m or so from the front. With both set bonuses and 7 medium with a hallway you are completely unable to sneak by? Even with abilities? Cloak lasts for 2.9 seconds. Is the hallway lined with guards?
  • Hand_Bacon
    Hand_Bacon
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    Hand_Bacon wrote: »

    All your hand-waving and word-twisting mean nothing. Even your examples mean nothing. When you would scout, would you set off in your dress uniforms, accompanied by your marching bands and bagpipers, along with your honor guard's banners waving high? I have to doubt you'd be terribly effective. Hey, maybe scouts need to be stealthy. Some of my attitude may reflect my naval background. The only way to be stealthy at sea is not to be looking. Radars, sonar, and radios off; because when you are looking you can be seen much farther away than you will ever be able to detect anything.

    Talk about humpty dumpty logic. No school today?

    I get it, you're flustered and I'm just having a conversation. Odd that you would attempt to act condescending towards conversation in such a childish manner. There is nothing up my sleeve, no slight of hand tricks, I'm just having a conversation.

    No ad hominem attacks at all. Just a conversation.

    Right.

    If you read the entire post that I quoted from and previous posts, you'll see the context. That was introduced by that person and I simply gave it back. I've pointed out before how I hadn't and how it wouldn't be constructive. That poster must have been unaware.

    EDIT: I couldn't find any rolling eyes so how about a wink ;) Since you know exactly what I'm talking about.

    Edited by Hand_Bacon on February 28, 2019 5:43PM
  • Hand_Bacon
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    Eiron77 wrote: »

    Yep, I think you're right. I got mixed up with a different thread from last night. I removed that portion from my comment.

    Thank you for that, I'll do likewise.
  • Hand_Bacon
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    KMarble wrote: »

    I think the problem is that you're looking at it as if the passive is one thing, and that to change one aspect of it would be to change the whole. I see it as 3 different traits that could be modified separately.

    Can we just ask them to take our 10% reduced fall damage in exchange for giving back the 3m reduction? Seems more fit for Khajiits always landing on their feet anyways.

    I don't know if I really want to give up that increased ability to find other non bosmer/khajiit stealthers first.

    Edited by Hand_Bacon on February 28, 2019 6:58PM
  • Arato
    Arato
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    Hand_Bacon wrote: »
    Arato wrote: »

    It's meters though, about melee range difference. If you get within melee range of enemies they spot you even with both sets, with both sets and racial bonus you can almost walk on top of them. If there's a normal sized hallway with a guard on either side of it, they will spot you now while wearing both sets.

    So we are talking with 7 medium and both set bonuses? I thought the beginning point was like 6m from behind and 14m or so from the front. With both set bonuses and 7 medium with a hallway you are completely unable to sneak by? Even with abilities? Cloak lasts for 2.9 seconds. Is the hallway lined with guards?

    cloak is invisibility which is a different mechanic, but stam builds don't have enough magicka to constantly spam that.
  • Hand_Bacon
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    KMarble wrote: »
    From what I've read so far once you use it, you get out of stealth yourself and because of the very small radius, you'll be within reach of a melee attack. Or did I understand it all wrong?

    The stealth detection is always there when you're moving around, its not only after you roll dodge. When you roll dodge you get the pen/speed and yes, that pops you out of stealth.

    Edited by Hand_Bacon on February 28, 2019 9:25PM
  • Hand_Bacon
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    max_only wrote: »
    Hand_Bacon wrote: »
    Shouting down the opposition isn't constructive.

    Who is shouting?

    I find it interesting that no one engages with the reasonable measured responses in all these threads and only jump on the emotional responses.

    It’s almost like attacking tone is a way of avoiding the real issue.

    I’ve answered all these objections and more and yet, it remains ignored in favor of pricking emotional responses from other people.

    It’s interesting.

    Seriously, that was not even indirectly having anything to do with you. Look at the original post and posts leading up to that and maybe you'll get the context. The term "shouting down" is not in reference to volume or the act of yelling. Its a tactic in ignoring or marginalizing opposition.


    Edited by Hand_Bacon on February 28, 2019 9:32PM
This discussion has been closed.