PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Tonturri

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

Sorc has very good mobility. Way better that DK or templar.
Sorc has double executes, active and passive.
Sorc will still have one more solid shield compared to some other classes, shield that also help its pets.
I dont see why boundless storm is such a big deal for Derra to point that out as some major flaw.
I mean, it last 23 seconds, its not like spammable where 200-300 cost reduction would be major thing.
Its radius is realistic for a class like sorcerer. Why would you want more than 5 meters anyways?
As I said, what playstyle you need more than 5 meter for?

1) People vastly overestimate the usefulness of Bolt Escape, especially when fighting someone competent (as opposed to a scrub who doesn't instantly close the gap)
2) Implosion is an extremely low proc chance and an extremely low health threshold. It could be removed and nobody would notice much of a difference in getting kills. If you run the active execute, then the passive one is nullified anyway.
3) Melee range on classes is being upped to ~7m generally, isn't it? Something like that. So, presumably we need more range on our melee stuff for the same reason others need more range on their melee stuff. It's a skill that does damage when the sorc is in the one place they DON'T want to be - in melee range. Rather odd, isn't it.

StamWhipCultist

Tonturri wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

Sorc has very good mobility. Way better that DK or templar.
Sorc has double executes, active and passive.
Sorc will still have one more solid shield compared to some other classes, shield that also help its pets.
I dont see why boundless storm is such a big deal for Derra to point that out as some major flaw.
I mean, it last 23 seconds, its not like spammable where 200-300 cost reduction would be major thing.
Its radius is realistic for a class like sorcerer. Why would you want more than 5 meters anyways?
As I said, what playstyle you need more than 5 meter for?

1) People vastly overestimate the usefulness of Bolt Escape, especially when fighting someone competent (as opposed to a scrub who doesn't instantly close the gap)
2) Implosion is an extremely low proc chance and an extremely low health threshold. It could be removed and nobody would notice much of a difference in getting kills. If you run the active execute, then the passive one is nullified anyway.
3) Melee range on classes is being upped to ~7m generally, isn't it? Something like that. So, presumably we need more range on our melee stuff for the same reason others need more range on their melee stuff. It's a skill that does damage when the sorc is in the one place they DON'T want to be - in melee range. Rather odd, isn't it.

Uppercut barely hit anyone that is not either being zerged down and immobilized or complete newcomer.
Implosion has solid proc chance, as seen from BGs where it proc a lot.
15% health might seem low but paired with other skill sorc use that are pretty much all based on lightning, it has great synergy with class.

if someone suggested revision of rebate as outdated passive, Id understand that.
if someone asked for stun back on frags, Id understand that.
but focusing on boundless as one of main issues is really wtf moment for me.

Apherius

Dark deal is meh, it could be so much more interesting in PVE
I really don't understand why class reps said it's something we could " work with " @Tasear , I agree with the rest but not with the Dark deal change.

the cast time IS the issue.

Dark Conversion

• if your goal is to make it interesting in both PVE and PVP, here is an idea (not the best):
  " Dark Conversion: Cost 2000 stamina ~ Cast-T : Instant ~ Duration: 20,4 sec ~ Self : Bargain with darkness, restore 8K health and 3600 Magicka after 1,2 sec. [ Then restore 1100 health and 190 magicka each 1,2 sec and deplete 350 stamina each second during 19,2 sec. Until you run out of stamina or the ability is toggled off]. You can be interrupted within 1,2 sec after you used the ability.
  
  I really like this idea, make it a toogle like mend wound ( requiered on one bar only), toggle the skill on ... wait 1,2 sec then toggle it off, and repeat if you only care about the first part of the skill, or keep it on and it will start draining your stamina while restoring your health and magicka each 1,2 sec after 1,2 sec.
  
  
• Dark Conversion: Cost 2250 stamina ~ Cast-T : Instant ~ Self : Bargain with darkness, restore 8K health and 3600 Magicka after 1,2 sec. and an additional 2400 magicka over 20 second. you can be interrupted within 1,2 sec after you used the ability.
  ( This would make the ability useful in PVE cause the cast time is the main problem ) and keep it useful in PVP.
  

Dark Exchange

• Dark Exchange: Cost 3014 stamina or Magicka ~ Cast-T: Instant ~ Self: Bargain with darkness to restore 8K health and 3600 magicka or stamina after 1,2 sec and an additional 2500 magicka or stamina over 20 second, whichever maximum is the higher. and cost 3014 stamina or magicka whichever maximum is lower. You can be interrupted within 1,2 sec after you used the ability.
• Dark Conversion:: [ Has reduced cost ]
• Dark Deal: Cost 1100 stamina or magicka ~ Cast-T: Instant ~ Self ~ needed on 1 bar only ~ Toogle: Bargain with darkness to restore 1100 health and 250 magicka or stamina each 1,2 sec, whichever maximum is the higher and cost 300 stamina or magicka each 1 sec, whichever maximum is the lower. Deplete stamina or magicka until your run out or the ability is tooggled off.
  
  They would need to ajust the values ofc.

Derra

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

but focusing on boundless as one of main issues is really wtf moment for me.

I´ve posted feedback on a number of skills in this topic.
It just happens to be that boundless is the worst skill out of the skills that gamemechanics mandate to use.

We could have endless debates on useless skills/passives sorc has (implosion is one of them for magica sorc). We could also have endless debates on fragstun - which zos won´t restore either way.

My feedback on boundless is simply rooted in the neccessity to get an armor buff next patch. Those other skills/passives are somewhat irrelevant. The armor buff won´t be next patch - so imo it´s of higher priority to be put in a state where it´s secondary functions aren´t entirely useless.

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

Implosion has solid proc chance, as seen from BGs where it proc a lot.
15% health might seem low but paired with other skill sorc use that are pretty much all based on lightning, it has great synergy with class.

Can you provide more than anecdotes about that statement?
If you find a competent magsorc that thinks implosion is a good passive i´ll not post in this topic again for this patch cycle.

Because coincidentally since i reset my killcounter i CAN provide evidence on the usefulness of implosion.
Out of 1185 killingblows a total of 35 came from implosion. That´s 2.9%.
Now important is: Since implosion applies it´s dmg before the actual skill that triggers it - it´s pretty safe to assume that the skill would have killed the enemy in almost all of those cases either way (because that skill is endless fury for me).
Implosion IS a useless passive and you do not know what you´re talking about.

Somewhere

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

StamWhipCultist wrote: »

Sorc has very good mobility. Way better that DK or templar.
Sorc has double executes, active and passive.
Sorc will still have one more solid shield compared to some other classes, shield that also help its pets.
I dont see why boundless storm is such a big deal for Derra to point that out as some major flaw.
I mean, it last 23 seconds, its not like spammable where 200-300 cost reduction would be major thing.
Its radius is realistic for a class like sorcerer. Why would you want more than 5 meters anyways?
As I said, what playstyle you need more than 5 meter for?

1) People vastly overestimate the usefulness of Bolt Escape, especially when fighting someone competent (as opposed to a scrub who doesn't instantly close the gap)
2) Implosion is an extremely low proc chance and an extremely low health threshold. It could be removed and nobody would notice much of a difference in getting kills. If you run the active execute, then the passive one is nullified anyway.
3) Melee range on classes is being upped to ~7m generally, isn't it? Something like that. So, presumably we need more range on our melee stuff for the same reason others need more range on their melee stuff. It's a skill that does damage when the sorc is in the one place they DON'T want to be - in melee range. Rather odd, isn't it.

Uppercut barely hit anyone that is not either being zerged down and immobilized or complete newcomer.
Implosion has solid proc chance, as seen from BGs where it proc a lot.
15% health might seem low but paired with other skill sorc use that are pretty much all based on lightning, it has great synergy with class.

if someone suggested revision of rebate as outdated passive, Id understand that.
if someone asked for stun back on frags, Id understand that.
but focusing on boundless as one of main issues is really wtf moment for me.

Because our shields are now less effective, so as Sorcs we are looking at what our other defensive options are. The obvious option is Lightning Form since it grants a resistance bonus. Most mag sorcs just don't bother using it really because the damage portion is essentially negligible since it's really just a tickle, only there to proc stuff such as Implosion (which you hate, and we hate too) and Surge. The speed bonus is nice but if you want to keep it up you need to speed 3400 magicka (with passives). Most of us don't find it worth while. We are not asking for it to be a super cheap, huge range, massive damage aoe dot like you seem to think we are.

I would rather it lose the damage and provide some other boon instead. Leave Hurricane as the damaging morph.

Doctordarkspawn

@Derra

Stop bothering with the troll, trust me, the winning move is not to play.

Instead, I want to know as someone with a interest in magsorc since this patch cycle, what's the plan if these current itteration of the changes go live?

Derra

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

@Derra

Stop bothering with the troll, trust me, the winning move is not to play.

Instead, I want to know as someone with a interest in magsorc since this patch cycle, what's the plan if these current itteration of the changes go live?

Nothing better to do.

Heavy sorc will be somewhat decent as it seems with the changes to shields (which is ironic since zos mentioned the desire to make light and medium armor more attractive for players in pvp - yet they made heavy even better comparatively).

Doctordarkspawn

Derra wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

@Derra

Stop bothering with the troll, trust me, the winning move is not to play.

Instead, I want to know as someone with a interest in magsorc since this patch cycle, what's the plan if these current itteration of the changes go live?

Nothing better to do.

Heavy sorc will be somewhat decent as it seems with the changes to shields (which is ironic since zos mentioned the desire to make light and medium armor more attractive for players in pvp - yet they made heavy even better comparatively).

Yeeeeeah...considering with the cap the only one who will make any use of shields -will be- heavy armor players, I'm not sure what they were trying to pull.

Lord-Otto

ZOS are dropping the ball again. It's the same principle as always: community discusses and works out solutions for ZOS, and they go ahead and do something completely different. Just so it's not community-made.

@Joy_Division , this is what I meant when I asked you to pressure ZOS to work harder WITH the community. Yes, getting the cast time removed is a huge success, but we're at square one again with ZOS spitting out random ideas. THIS is what has to change, it's a fundamental work progress flaw.

Regarding HP cap, 40% is absurd, it should be 50% or 60%. It should not take emperor bonus into account, that would be extremely imbalanced. And if ZOS thought it through, they would have re-designed the sorc HP passive to require having a summoning ability slotted for that. That passive is useless in Cyro, compare that to the awesome Dark Vigor passive, which will benefit shields.

Tonturri

ZOS seems only willing to listen to us AFTER they've screwed something up - instead of before, where they just want 'pain points' but make it CLEAR that they're not after any actual suggestions.

Apherius

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ZOS are dropping the ball again. It's the same principle as always: community discusses and works out solutions for ZOS, and they go ahead and do something completely different. Just so it's not community-made.

@Joy_Division , this is what I meant when I asked you to pressure ZOS to work harder WITH the community. Yes, getting the cast time removed is a huge success, but we're at square one again with ZOS spitting out random ideas. THIS is what has to change, it's a fundamental work progress flaw.

Regarding HP cap, 40% is absurd, it should be 50% or 60%. It should not take emperor bonus into account, that would be extremely imbalanced. And if ZOS thought it through, they would have re-designed the sorc HP passive to require having a summoning ability slotted for that. That passive is useless in Cyro, compare that to the awesome Dark Vigor passive, which will benefit shields.

A sorcerer with 24K HP and 40K magicka won't notice any difference with harness or hardened.

• Harness would start at 14,000. (40k Magicka * 0.35 coefficient)
• The shield would be halved by Battle Spirit to 7000.
• The shield would be unaffected by the health-based cap, because 7000 < 9,600. (9,600 = 40% of 24k hp)
• Same thing with Hardened, it would start at 19,200 ( 40k Magicka *0,48 coefficient)
• Then halved by battle spirit to 9600.
• And unaffected by the health based cap ( 40% of 24K hp = 9600)

Now I will take my sorc as an example, 20K5 HP and 41K magicka.

1. Health based cap = 8200
2. Hardened = (0,48*41000)/2 = 9840, affected by the health based cap.
3. Harness = (0,35*41000)/2 =7175, unaffected by the health based cap.

When you have too much magicka ( or not enough health ) hardened is above the health based cap and harness is unaffected, it reduce the slight gap between both shield ... Which is sad cause hardened is a class shield and should be superior to harness, Hardened cost 2900 magicka and harness cost 3900 but restore up to 4200 magicka ... The sustain is already better with harness, let's not reduce the gap between both shield strength.
Now some are probably like " Who care, sorc use both shields anyway, no need to choose " but keep in mind we don't shield stack in PVE, let's make the same calculation on a non-pet sorc in PVE.

16.124HP and 43 431 magicka.

1. health based cap = 6449
2. Hardened = (0,48*43431)= 20 846, affected by the health based cap = 6449.
3. Harness = (0,38*43431)/2= 15 200, affected by the health based cap = 6449.

Tell me how the choice is even interesting between both ? there is a 1K magicka cost difference between both, and harness restore up to 4200 magicka when you fight boss/mobs that deal magic/elemental damage.

The change is far better than a cast-time, but they could add some slight changes, 60% health based cap for conjured ward and morphs is one of them ( keep it 40% for harness).

The 10% increased strenght on Harneded ward isn't gonna be interesting, since we have low health and high magicka in PVE, I wonder how they plan to balance both morphs.

Galarthor

You will notice the difference in PvP, since in a CP environment Hardened has a size of roughly 12000. With a limit of 9600 you are looking at a 20% nerf. Many sorcs even run Hardened Ward of 13000, which puts it at a 26% nerf. And all of that is before factoring in the additional crit damage now taken by shields. Depending on crit damage and crit chance factors we are looking at an up to 50% nerf of Hardened Ward in PvP. Tha's excessive!

And let's not forget shifting stats from Magicka to HP will only aggravate the sustain problems sorcs are having in both PvP and PvE.

Irylia

Maulkin wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Damn do I wish fresh still stunned and streak stunned thorough block. So much better it was back then.

When frag has bite. When fights were fun. When my build didn't need me to use a DSA staff.

Streak stunning through block was never live. It was for only one PTS cycle way way back in IC or Wrothgar update.

However it’s basically what many of us have been campaigning for since the frag nerf. Get rid of rune cage 40m stun and make Streak stun go through block instead. Since Streak teleport is only 8m you need to basically be in melee range and also target in the right direction to get a stun (a short one at that). It’d be far more balanced and saves a slot.

They ignored that and decided to go through the ridiculous overbuff/overnerc cycle with Rune Cage instead.

Streak did stun through block
On live I used to do it

Andferne

What about getting rid of the shield completely and making the Sorcs shield instead grant Major Protection for 6 seconds. Then one morph could add minor intellect and the other minor for stamina.

Could then change Annulment to act the same way. Harness would work identical to the Sorcs magic morph, while the other morph could just add a duration to the skill from 6 seconds to +1(Or even +2) second per light armor piece worn.

firedrgn

Not everything can be balanced between pvp and pve thats the real issuse. Need pvp morph and pve morph.

Tonturri

Andferne wrote: »

What about getting rid of the shield completely and making the Sorcs shield instead grant Major Protection for 6 seconds. Then one morph could add minor intellect and the other minor for stamina.

Could then change Annulment to act the same way. Harness would work identical to the Sorcs magic morph, while the other morph could just add a duration to the skill from 6 seconds to +1(Or even +2) second per light armor piece worn.

For one, let's not make two nearly exactly the same skills. There's enough of that going on. However, this seems like a nice alternative for one of the Sorc Ward morphs, or something they can change all of Anuulment into.

cpuScientist

Okokok

I have mained Sorc forever. My favorite Magicka class and stamina class.

Stamina Sorcerer is supposed to be all about the weapon line and I get it. But please bie that a Stan morph of the ultimates are possibly going through.

Air atronach makes sense in the AOE morph for sure. It is definitely fitting and would be nice in PVE. No doubt. But it would not be used in PvP. It would not change anything for us. We would still be lacking identity.

Stamina Overload however, especially with the new direction overload is being taken. Just makes sense. It gives sta Sorc an identity. If it's nade to return Stam on hit like the mag one it gives sustain through ultimate as seems to be the desire. It gives many new builds and ideas and just a refresh to the class in PvP. And help in the area if ssustain and monotonous rotation in PVE. And if it's strong enough take away from the over reliance on bow ultimate. It truly would be a fantastic change.

Now I believe both should go down. Air atronach and overload. Both make sense. But if it us only one please highly consider overload!

@ZOS_Wrobel

Lord-Otto

Irylia wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Damn do I wish fresh still stunned and streak stunned thorough block. So much better it was back then.

When frag has bite. When fights were fun. When my build didn't need me to use a DSA staff.

Streak stunning through block was never live. It was for only one PTS cycle way way back in IC or Wrothgar update.

However it’s basically what many of us have been campaigning for since the frag nerf. Get rid of rune cage 40m stun and make Streak stun go through block instead. Since Streak teleport is only 8m you need to basically be in melee range and also target in the right direction to get a stun (a short one at that). It’d be far more balanced and saves a slot.

They ignored that and decided to go through the ridiculous overbuff/overnerc cycle with Rune Cage instead.

Streak did stun through block
On live I used to do it

I'm so glad you caught that. One of the two biggest sorc nerfs to date (the other being physical Dawnbreaker).
Of course, back then, everyone just looked at unblockable curse and screamed "OP!"...
(>_>)

Witar

Apherius wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ZOS are dropping the ball again. It's the same principle as always: community discusses and works out solutions for ZOS, and they go ahead and do something completely different. Just so it's not community-made.

@Joy_Division , this is what I meant when I asked you to pressure ZOS to work harder WITH the community. Yes, getting the cast time removed is a huge success, but we're at square one again with ZOS spitting out random ideas. THIS is what has to change, it's a fundamental work progress flaw.

Regarding HP cap, 40% is absurd, it should be 50% or 60%. It should not take emperor bonus into account, that would be extremely imbalanced. And if ZOS thought it through, they would have re-designed the sorc HP passive to require having a summoning ability slotted for that. That passive is useless in Cyro, compare that to the awesome Dark Vigor passive, which will benefit shields.

A sorcerer with 24K HP and 40K magicka won't notice any difference with harness or hardened.

• Harness would start at 14,000. (40k Magicka * 0.35 coefficient)
• The shield would be halved by Battle Spirit to 7000.
• The shield would be unaffected by the health-based cap, because 7000 < 9,600. (9,600 = 40% of 24k hp)
• Same thing with Hardened, it would start at 19,200 ( 40k Magicka *0,48 coefficient)
• Then halved by battle spirit to 9600.
• And unaffected by the health based cap ( 40% of 24K hp = 9600)

Now I will take my sorc as an example, 20K5 HP and 41K magicka.

1. Health based cap = 8200
2. Hardened = (0,48*41000)/2 = 9840, affected by the health based cap.
3. Harness = (0,35*41000)/2 =7175, unaffected by the health based cap.

When you have too much magicka ( or not enough health ) hardened is above the health based cap and harness is unaffected, it reduce the slight gap between both shield ... Which is sad cause hardened is a class shield and should be superior to harness, Hardened cost 2900 magicka and harness cost 3900 but restore up to 4200 magicka ... The sustain is already better with harness, let's not reduce the gap between both shield strength.
Now some are probably like " Who care, sorc use both shields anyway, no need to choose " but keep in mind we don't shield stack in PVE, let's make the same calculation on a non-pet sorc in PVE.

16.124HP and 43 431 magicka.

1. health based cap = 6449
2. Hardened = (0,48*43431)= 20 846, affected by the health based cap = 6449.
3. Harness = (0,38*43431)/2= 15 200, affected by the health based cap = 6449.

Tell me how the choice is even interesting between both ? there is a 1K magicka cost difference between both, and harness restore up to 4200 magicka when you fight boss/mobs that deal magic/elemental damage.

The change is far better than a cast-time, but they could add some slight changes, 60% health based cap for conjured ward and morphs is one of them ( keep it 40% for harness).

The 10% increased strenght on Harneded ward isn't gonna be interesting, since we have low health and high magicka in PVE, I wonder how they plan to balance both morphs.

Exept that you can't shieldstack anymore. 40% is max amount you can shield yourself be it just hardened or hardened and harness combined. That is incredibly poor amount in pve and quite a big nerf in pvp too for a light armor sorc. If you manage to hit softcap resistances shield will be the same amount as harness+hardened is now on live.

NyxWrench

Witar wrote: »

Exept that you can't shieldstack anymore. 40% is max amount you can shield yourself be it just hardened or hardened and harness combined. That is incredibly poor amount in pve and quite a big nerf in pvp too for a light armor sorc. If you manage to hit softcap resistances shield will be the same amount as harness+hardened is now on live.

Not correct.

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Okay, I appreciate the overall direction... but 40% of my health bar on a 24k sorc shield? So Basically why run hardened ward because I'll always be so far over the health cap?

Is this 40% for ALL shields stacking or just each shield individually?

Shields still stack the same way as before. We didn't change that behavior. The health-based cap is applied per individual shield.

Lord-Otto

Apherius wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

ZOS are dropping the ball again. It's the same principle as always: community discusses and works out solutions for ZOS, and they go ahead and do something completely different. Just so it's not community-made.

@Joy_Division , this is what I meant when I asked you to pressure ZOS to work harder WITH the community. Yes, getting the cast time removed is a huge success, but we're at square one again with ZOS spitting out random ideas. THIS is what has to change, it's a fundamental work progress flaw.

Regarding HP cap, 40% is absurd, it should be 50% or 60%. It should not take emperor bonus into account, that would be extremely imbalanced. And if ZOS thought it through, they would have re-designed the sorc HP passive to require having a summoning ability slotted for that. That passive is useless in Cyro, compare that to the awesome Dark Vigor passive, which will benefit shields.

A sorcerer with 24K HP and 40K magicka won't notice any difference with harness or hardened.

• Harness would start at 14,000. (40k Magicka * 0.35 coefficient)
• The shield would be halved by Battle Spirit to 7000.
• The shield would be unaffected by the health-based cap, because 7000 < 9,600. (9,600 = 40% of 24k hp)
• Same thing with Hardened, it would start at 19,200 ( 40k Magicka *0,48 coefficient)
• Then halved by battle spirit to 9600.
• And unaffected by the health based cap ( 40% of 24K hp = 9600)

Now I will take my sorc as an example, 20K5 HP and 41K magicka.

1. Health based cap = 8200
2. Hardened = (0,48*41000)/2 = 9840, affected by the health based cap.
3. Harness = (0,35*41000)/2 =7175, unaffected by the health based cap.

When you have too much magicka ( or not enough health ) hardened is above the health based cap and harness is unaffected, it reduce the slight gap between both shield ... Which is sad cause hardened is a class shield and should be superior to harness, Hardened cost 2900 magicka and harness cost 3900 but restore up to 4200 magicka ... The sustain is already better with harness, let's not reduce the gap between both shield strength.
Now some are probably like " Who care, sorc use both shields anyway, no need to choose " but keep in mind we don't shield stack in PVE, let's make the same calculation on a non-pet sorc in PVE.

16.124HP and 43 431 magicka.

1. health based cap = 6449
2. Hardened = (0,48*43431)= 20 846, affected by the health based cap = 6449.
3. Harness = (0,38*43431)/2= 15 200, affected by the health based cap = 6449.

Tell me how the choice is even interesting between both ? there is a 1K magicka cost difference between both, and harness restore up to 4200 magicka when you fight boss/mobs that deal magic/elemental damage.

The change is far better than a cast-time, but they could add some slight changes, 60% health based cap for conjured ward and morphs is one of them ( keep it 40% for harness).

The 10% increased strenght on Harneded ward isn't gonna be interesting, since we have low health and high magicka in PVE, I wonder how they plan to balance both morphs.

Don't forget CP. Still don't know if Bastion can get over the cap.

Doctordarkspawn

@ZOS_RobGarrett

The way I see it, your options are:

1. Make heavy armor usable for magicka builds. Full stop. Sorry, but the way the changes are now structured, you make health a stat for magsorcs. Making damage bonuses that scale off health might be OP AF in PVP, but you've written yourself into a corner with the changes that most of the sorcs main defense, shields, now only work with high health and resistances.

2. Increase the cap to 60%, make bastion apply craptons of resistances to shields, so that while the shield is up, it -feels- like you have heavy armor on in PVE. This is how sorcs survive one-shots, burst damage in trials, and there's a screenshot of the new black rose prison four man floating around, that shows normal mobs dealing 8K damage per swipe in rapid succession. The new shield will not last against those enemies without some serious resistances, so make it so that the player can make those resistances happen, with bastion.

3. Keep the resistance, and crit changes to shields. But remove the cap, and cast time. Because the crit means they'll last alot less after battle spirit in PVP, and in PVE, it was never an issue anyway. Shields didn't make healers feel useless. One-shot mechanics and high ammounts of burst healers couldn't deal with, without players running their own heals, made healers feel useless.

There are your options.

Thraben

cpuScientist wrote: »

Okokok

Stamina Overload however, especially with the new direction overload is being taken. Just makes sense. It gives sta Sorc an identity. If it's nade to return Stam on hit like the mag one it gives sustain through ultimate as seems to be the desire. It gives many new builds and ideas and just a refresh to the class in PvP. And help in the area if ssustain and monotonous rotation in PVE. And if it's strong enough take away from the over reliance on bow ultimate. It truly would be a fantastic change.

Now I believe both should go down. Air atronach and overload. Both make sense. But if it us only one please highly consider overload!

@ZOS_Wrobel

Unfortunately, the "fresh ideas" are prevented by the utter lack of bar space.
I've tested many new builds for the new OL, and none beats the old Overload, because you need

a) a source of empower (the damage without it is emberassing),
b) an additional source of Ulti regeneration (blocking the Ulti regen while active ... Who came with that idea?!)
c) at least another skill that increases its damage like Crushing Weapons, or Bound Armaments.

That's 2-4 dead Skill slots and 1-2 sets. With the only stamina skill to directly empower being the bad morph of a skill you won't land anyway because of the 3 swift meta. A pretty hefty price tag for something that can't be used against Wardens, DK, or anyone who uses a shield.
Even a Stam morph of it won't change a thing with its current implementation.

The only PvP build that works with the PTS Overload is a Snipetard who empowers it with mage light - a playstyle the OL change was supposed to prevent.

Witar

NyxWrench wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Exept that you can't shieldstack anymore. 40% is max amount you can shield yourself be it just hardened or hardened and harness combined. That is incredibly poor amount in pve and quite a big nerf in pvp too for a light armor sorc. If you manage to hit softcap resistances shield will be the same amount as harness+hardened is now on live.

Not correct.

ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Okay, I appreciate the overall direction... but 40% of my health bar on a 24k sorc shield? So Basically why run hardened ward because I'll always be so far over the health cap?

Is this 40% for ALL shields stacking or just each shield individually?

Shields still stack the same way as before. We didn't change that behavior. The health-based cap is applied per individual shield.

That's a relief

Nicko_Lps

Nerf sorcs to ground, make it the most useless class in this game so this forum can have peace.

After 7 shield nerfs we still see tears for shields, rolldodge+vigor+rally+suffle/mirage+block all balanced, shields IMBA

ruikkarikun

@ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel

How sorcerer pets (scamp and twilight matriarch) will survive in veteran dungeons and trials?
Because now in Live server pets are useless in veteran trials, and sometimes die in veteran dungeons (DLC, matriarch dies in vMA, vDSA).
So if they die with 20k shields how they will survive with 6k shield?

Apherius

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel

How sorcerer pets (scamp and twilight matriarch) will survive in veteran dungeons and trials?
Because now in Live server pets are useless in veteran trials, and sometimes die in veteran dungeons (DLC, matriarch dies in vMA, vDSA).
So if they die with 20k shields how they will survive with 6k shield?

Here is what they said about pets in class reps meeting notes.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Pets
No critical resistance and the shield change mechanic means they are squishier. ZOS indicated to us they are willing to look at specific problematic PvE fights in which pets do more harm than good via triggering boss mechanics, dying, etc. The reps already have a thorough list and will send it to the Devs.

Vahrokh

NyxWrench wrote: »

I've never seen a 50k parse from sorcerer. On the other hand, sorcerer is heavily AOE, and I never see anyone do parses on 2 or 3 skeletons at once. I'd love to see a 3-target parse comparison between jobs.

You won't see 3 target scores because since 1 year+, doing good AoE damage has become irrelevant. All new trials have 1 thing to hit at a time, which suits mablades and not sorcs.

Vahrokh

PVE only, PvPers just skip.

Look at the double standards: in this and in other threads you see a stamina player asking for suggestions about how to improve his PvE DPS.

If he had been a magsorc, the replies SHALL be:

• You cannot have cake and eat it
• You have to make sacrifices.
• Put skill points on health dude! And health enchants!
• You either give up on damage, or on survivability (the excuse that brought us the nerfs we get come next update)

Instead, as ALWAYS, and as every single other class and spec in game except magsorc, he gets the proper suggestions:

• Dude your gear is terrible, the BiS is full on DPS, with this and this gear set.
• Dude you must put all your skill points in stamina, so you get top DPS (see "Change attributes to all be in stam" reply, "... and for instance move most of your attribute points to stamina..." reply, "It's typically best to put all attribute points into stamina" reply. "Put all points into stamina" reply. Just go and read yourself).

Basically this game runs a double standard. If it's any other class and spec, "go all out ape-damage" but if it's magsorcs, then we MUST make sacrifices, we MUST put points into health, we MUST give up on this and that.

Why is that?

If magsorcs actually did crazy amounts of damage, or if magsorcs could respec to the best trial tank or best trial healer in 20 seconds, then I could understand the "cannot have it all" schooling.
But magsorcs today do average damage at best, and post patch they'll deal even less. And magsorcs cannot respec to anything else, nobody is going to take a magsorc trial tank or healer.

So, again, why do we have to receive nerf after nerf and give up this and that, while the others enjoy a full life with no compromise and no sacrifices?

How's that fair?

Galarthor

Vahrokh wrote: »

PVE only, PvPers just skip.

Look at the double standards: in this and in other threads you see a stamina player asking for suggestions about how to improve his PvE DPS.

If he had been a magsorc, the replies SHALL be:

• You cannot have cake and eat it
• You have to make sacrifices.
• Put skill points on health dude! And health enchants!
• You either give up on damage, or on survivability (the excuse that brought us the nerfs we get come next update)

Instead, as ALWAYS, and as every single other class and spec in game except magsorc, he gets the proper suggestions:

• Dude your gear is terrible, the BiS is full on DPS, with this and this gear set.
• Dude you must put all your skill points in stamina, so you get top DPS (see "Change attributes to all be in stam" reply, "... and for instance move most of your attribute points to stamina..." reply, "It's typically best to put all attribute points into stamina" reply. "Put all points into stamina" reply. Just go and read yourself).

Basically this game runs a double standard. If it's any other class and spec, "go all out ape-damage" but if it's magsorcs, then we MUST make sacrifices, we MUST put points into health, we MUST give up on this and that.

Why is that?

If magsorcs actually did crazy amounts of damage, or if magsorcs could respec to the best trial tank or best trial healer in 20 seconds, then I could understand the "cannot have it all" schooling.
But magsorcs today do average damage at best, and post patch they'll deal even less. And magsorcs cannot respec to anything else, nobody is going to take a magsorc trial tank or healer.

So, again, why do we have to receive nerf after nerf and give up this and that, while the others enjoy a full life with no compromise and no sacrifices?

How's that fair?

B/c ZOS is pushing their own agenda: stamina domination. Why? I do not know. I can just observe their actions.
PvP outside of zergs is pretty much stamina-exclusive these days. I bet they are aiming for something similar in PvE. With each patch magicka becomes less viable. And with each patch light armor becomes less viable.