Sotha Sil NAPC Part VII

Nihang

Rickter wrote: »

Malibulove wrote: »

It would explain a lot; the rambling posts, the obsession with siege, emping on empty campaigns. You guys are practically kin already.

Hey, whoever you are, im not on sotha anymore. I dont talk about it other than to communicate the factual statement that its a p*ss- poor server, worse than Shor has ever been, a sentiment echoed repeatedly in this thread, and id like to move on.

Forgot i had the thread bookmarked. Will remedy that immediately.

If youd like to shame me on the forums again, please tag me, reach out to me via Private Message, or simply talk behind my back as i will not be aware nor care after this post. Please note: a response is not guaranteed as your post may not warrant the dignity of a response.

Im sorry i rubbed you in such a wrong way. My opinions should be regarded as such, just opinions, and its unfortunate you spent moments of your life posting what you did. Good day, sir.

cringe cringe cringe cringe

Joshlenoir

I have to say, this morning there was some pretty solid, healthy small scale pvp going on at brk mine with my small man group. Lots of fighting and killing on both sides but it seems AD came out on top. Great effort all around guys !

Taylor_MB

Joshlenoir wrote: »

I have to say, this morning there was some pretty solid, healthy small scale pvp going on at brk mine with my small man group. Lots of fighting and killing on both sides but it seems AD came out on top. Great effort all around guys !

Does not even compare to my small man at Ash Farm!

Tay's Guide to Capping a Resource
https://youtu.be/Tuy7OnUcSGg

*to be fair though it was weekend prime time at last Emp keep

Joshlenoir

Good job this morning AD ! Lot's of people were online and thankfully there was no toxicity in zone chat either. We put in a great effort and finally managed to acquire all of the scrolls. Hopefully we can hold emperorship for a long time and have a great defence like last night !

sluice

Server's dead, again..

Malibulove

The Camp is a weekend proposition. That's the only time there's enough numbers for spontaneous pvp.

Weekdays you basically have to siege through a couple Level 5 keeps just to get out on the map, which is beyond soul-sucking, especially on no CP.

It's why even most the AD transfers gave up playing EP weeks ago. No matter how enticing the 2 bar AD is, there are much more fun ways to enjoy Cyrodiil rather than pushing leveled up Home Keeps.

Joshlenoir

Malibulove wrote: »

The Camp is a weekend proposition. That's the only time there's enough numbers for spontaneous pvp.

Weekdays you basically have to siege through a couple Level 5 keeps just to get out on the map, which is beyond soul-sucking, especially on no CP.

It's why even most the AD transfers gave up playing EP weeks ago. No matter how enticing the 2 bar AD is, there are much more fun ways to enjoy Cyrodiil rather than pushing leveled up Home Keeps.

To be fair last time I tried transferring over to EP, Getting #1, and helping the faction as emp, I just got accused of being a keep trading, helping AD control the mapp'ing spy, so I just gave up and played AD. Seems like it's just easier letting EP suffer seeing as most of their guilds won't log on SothaSil until a handful of reds morning cap the emp ring, then grab scrolls, then hold emp for as long as they can. (usually on the weekend or a day prior).

DeadlyRecluse

Malibulove wrote: »

The Camp is a weekend proposition. That's the only time there's enough numbers for spontaneous pvp.

This is more or less my feeling at this point. Even if everyone is on the ring, on weeknights you basically rehash the same 2-3 fights ad nauseum (until one faction gains momentum--and usually an extra bar of pop). There are exceptions, but at the moment weekday Sotha is pretty uninspiring.

Hopefully it picks up a bit when some schools let out in December and we can have at least one solid competitive cycle.

gameswithaspoon

Malibulove wrote: »

The Camp is a weekend proposition. That's the only time there's enough numbers for spontaneous pvp.

Weekdays you basically have to siege through a couple Level 5 keeps just to get out on the map, which is beyond soul-sucking, especially on no CP.

It's why even most the AD transfers gave up playing EP weeks ago. No matter how enticing the 2 bar AD is, there are much more fun ways to enjoy Cyrodiil rather than pushing leveled up Home Keeps.

Spoon did this with company against DC for 6 months every morning, so yeah she knows what you mean. IOTE is off the map cause there's no PVP. Too bad Richter and et al left but the reason people use less siege in Vivec is cause the lag is so bad you can't fire it at major keep battles.

We miss the EP guilds, we really do, but we understand why you left and we don't blame you.

Somedays you actually miss HeWhoseNameMayNotBeTyped.

Joshlenoir

odd111out wrote: »

We miss the EP guilds, we really do, but we understand why you left and we don't blame you.

Somedays you actually miss HeWhoseNameMayNotBeTyped.

If they can't handle the heat they shouldn't step into the kitchen

Adenoma

Or we could just have good PvP. I would like that too. CPs enable really stupid build options.

gameswithaspoon

Joshlenoir wrote: »

odd111out wrote: »

We miss the EP guilds, we really do, but we understand why you left and we don't blame you.

Somedays you actually miss HeWhoseNameMayNotBeTyped.

If you can't handle the heat don't step into the kitchen

All my means are sane, my object and my motive mad.

Joshlenoir

odd111out wrote: »

Joshlenoir wrote: »

odd111out wrote: »

We miss the EP guilds, we really do, but we understand why you left and we don't blame you.

Somedays you actually miss HeWhoseNameMayNotBeTyped.

If you can't handle the heat don't step into the kitchen

All my means are sane, my object and my motive mad.

Edited my message, I was talking about EP

gabriebe

It`s not a matter of being able to handle the heat or not, it's a matter of whether you want to cap 3-4 homekeeps before you can start having some fun and having the responsibility of flipping the map vs jumping in and finding some stress-free, mostly toxicity-free fun wherever you want.

Joshlenoir

gabriebe wrote: »

It`s not a matter of being able to handle the heat or not, it's a matter of whether you want to cap 3-4 homekeeps before you can start having some fun and having the responsibility of flipping the map vs jumping in and finding some stress-free, mostly toxicity-free fun wherever you want.

Everyone come to Shor

gabriebe

Shor is about the same, at least in the hours I play. Lurking in unpopulated campaigns isn`t everyone`s thing.

gameswithaspoon

Spoon missed saying this last night but congrats to the EP emp!! Lot of fun, especially the bridge wars.

Joshlenoir

gabriebe wrote: »

Shor is about the same, at least in the hours I play. Lurking in unpopulated campaigns isn`t everyone`s thing.

I'm a RP nightblade ganker. I sit in the shadows and wait for unsuspecting victims as I eagerly wag my tail and feel the air against my whiskers. Dead campaigns are prime areas for ignorant adventurers who think they can prance around my territory without a care.
My poisoned arrow and blade has killed many mighty foes. The shadows are my refuge.

A_G_G_R_O

Once EP and DC lost their APEX predators in pvp, and I am not speaking of DC's or EP's ball zerg guilds, I am speaking of both factions most notorious small scalers, the factions crumbled. Like or hate small scale guilds or players. You can call them toxic or campaign ruiners, but in truth they save the campaign. They farm out the pug zergs and cull the herd, which lets you keep your tri-keeps and fight in the circle running your [large groups can enjoy]. ~edit for clarity

As of late there is a group of DC doing some small-scale and their skills are developing for many of their newer members. But as for EP there is not one competent small scale group left. If an infamous group of small-scalers were on EP still as they were 6 months ago you wouldn't be so dire pressed. In a group of 4-5 they could farm an entire AD faction stack zerg in a tower. When you don't have killers of that magnitude your faction hurts. I'd make an appeal for their return, or develop some small scale skills of your own. Actual small scale too, none of this I do medium scale 12-16 people, that is a zerg and you won't develop core competencies like staying buffed.

Saying toxicity from a small-scale group that has you ON FARM, is why it is dead, is just not logical. My guildmates and Myself receive more salt, in game threats, and IRL death threats it's honestly disgusting. But we enjoy pvp so we log on and honestly deal with more toxicity in an afternoon from salty PUGS then you have dealt with since the first day you hit "login". You don't pvp in sotha because it just isn't fun, and i think some serious attention and stale Cyrodiil mechanics are at the core of the issue. If you don't like one of my members, find the ignore button. You are in control of your emotions, no one makes you feel anything. ~edit to embolden facts

I know many folks claim my guild [CAMPAIGN KILLERS] (formerly Knwn Shtrs) killed Sotha Sil, but that is simply just short sighted. I think we need to ask more from our ZOS developers. When there are two AD faction stacked zergs on at primetime and factions do not want to log on and play, the state of the game incentivizes them to just take the center ring, get stronger, take enemy tri-keeps, gets even stronger, takes enemy scrolls, get even more stats. I think this is a flawed design from a game perspective that kills the campaign. They could also make Tri-keeps uncapturable, simply make it a neutral keep or a rubble pit and once done so it opens the gates. If there was incentives to hold particular keeps and introduce things such as Daedric raids on keeps when pop is low, it would add an interesting blend to pvp. The daedra want the elder scrolls right? (Remember Molag Kena), have them invade your keeps that hold scrolls with a trial like difficulty.

` edit for an interesting idea
If daedra successfully raid your keep the Scroll could go to IC where mechanic to recover the scroll comes in a massive free for all with pvp and pve mobs simultaneously. Would be interesting.
` end of edit

One major problem with sotha is also when it comes to retaking a map is it's a slog because the guards are simply out of control. One they have the most busted version of their abilities (Dawnbreaker Yourself!) and two you have no-cp, it's actually insane. This breaks momentum of pvp when you are on the losing side, also stacked with the fact the dominant faction has more crit, defense, hp, and flat dmg than you simply for owning more the map. I understand why you wouldn't want to log on and retake the tri-keeps (the ones taken by large scale zergs who have nothing better to do than take keeps, what else is there to do, the game offers them no other options).

Faction imbalances are also an issue. ZOS doesn't offer anything to help actively balance this issue. It is evident in Sotha SIl that AD has both more numbers currently, and the highest skilled small scale players (currently). This is a clear imbalance and makes smaller and less skilled groups for EP and DC not want to play and I understand that. Maybe ZOS could implement a system where a group of 4-6 could queue into a campaign as "Outlaws" or "factionless" and then fight whoever they want. Or have a mercenary mode queue like they have in WoW where you can queue into underpopulated side and make 20% more ap whilst playing on that faction but the score does not apply to your leaderboards of your faction. This way you still earn AP on a GO push and personal character development and do not have to make two of the same class to just get quality OPEN WORLD PVP.

The could also Combine Kyne with Sotha sil, and Make Shor Vivec pt 2 and lower the pap cop on vivec. A blend of all or some of this also seems practical but [NOT] an all encompassing solution. ~edit forgot not

As I see it, these are the options for sotha sil. Losing factions can analyze what they are doing wrong when it comes to losing fights and develop and get better(or ask the good EP small scale guilds to help sotha). They can also continue to crutch on night time ball zerging the map and losing emp within a few hours because they are not strong enough and didn't do the former, and then continue to log off and complain on forums. They could recognize there is a serious flaw of game mechanics and how ZOS decided to [NOT] handle clear faction imbalances like we experience today and maybe help raise a unified voice of change to make a more refreshing cyrodiil (This the option ZOS would prefer we do not take and like us to blame players and not developers for boring pvp). Finally, just log on an PvP even if you lose or do not have emp... If you don't like someone ignore them.

Have an enjoyable day.

jaysins

Great suggestions AGGRO. I think there are definitely things ZOS is missing the boat on to help the PvP community out as a whole. Look at how obvious and effective closing the unused servers was. Not a fix all but definitely helped and there are other common sense things that could be done to alleviate the problems by the developers who many of us support financially every month.

esotoon

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

One major problem with sotha is also when it comes to retaking a map is it's a slog because the guards are simply out of control. One they have the most busted version of their abilities (Dawnbreaker Yourself!) and two you have no-cp, it's actually insane. This breaks momentum of pvp when you are on the losing side, also stacked with the fact the dominant faction has more crit, defense, hp, and flat dmg than you simply for owning more the map. I understand why you wouldn't want to log on and retake the tri-keeps

I can understand the need to have the npc's as powerful as they are however I definitely think it would be good to disincentivise the holding the tri-keeps.

A solution I've suggested before is to have a demarcation zone around each gate and its associated home keep where 30 minutes (or some other arbitrary time period) after the gate is opened, you no longer score AP for killing players. Have this zone reset only after the gate is closed.

And to add to that, once the demarcation is active, have the tri-keeps and resources start to lose levels instead of gaining them. And once recaptured, have them jump straight to level 5 keeps/resources (to try and help alleviate immediate counter attacks).

That way there would be no incentive for players to gate camp or hold the oppositions tri-keeps unless they are still after the scroll. And if you log on to find your tri-keeps all taken, with them all at level 1, it will be much less of a slog to get those keeps back (especially if only a small number of players are on).

Maybe ZOS could implement a system where a group of 4-6 could queue into a campaign as "Outlaws" or "factionless" and then fight whoever they want.

The problem with this is, as we saw at the start of the current campaign, is if those 'outlaws' chose to fight alongside the strongest faction, it makes things much worse for the faction they are fighting against. Therefor, I think it definitely needs some kind of incentive to encourage the factionless to fight with the losing faction(s), like in your second suggestion.

The mercenary solution sounds interesting but might not be as simple as you suggest. With WoW you have only two factions, so balancing is straightforward. The problem in ESO comes with balancing for 3 factions. e.g. When you have a situation like Sotha does currently, where 2 factions often have a low pop count. If EP and DC are in 2nd and 3rd and the score is close, the chances are they are going to be tangling with each other constantly (with the factionless swapping between them as and when the pop levels change). Meanwhile it is doing nothing to thwart the largest population group and they are free to get even further ahead. Even if you incentivising the mercenaries to only to go after the highest pop faction, it still has it's problems, because it leaves the 3rd place faction exposed should the 2nd place faction chose to attack them.

To be clear, I'm not saying this is a bad idea. Just that it is maybe more complicated than it first appears so needs more 'work'.


Your idea about Daedra attacks is interesting. Perhaps it could also be used to help with the population disparity problem? i.e. When you're faction's population is x% larger than the faction with the lowest population on the server, have Daedra attack random keeps that your faction owns (have either the number of keeps being attacked at once and/or the number/strength of the daedra attacking increase in relation to the size of the population disparity). That way the daedra can act as harassers, forcing the high population faction(s) to split their forces in order to deal with them. Make it that there is zero reward for repelling the daedra other than getting your keep back, so that it doesn't become another mechanic that gets abused in order to farm.

On a technical level though, I would imagine anything that introduces more enemies (and enemy types) around large numbers of players is going to increase the lag issues.

WhitePawPrints

Great battles with DC tonight. It's so rare when a battle at the gate actually happens. Good fun all that participated in the Nikel to Ash fights.

It's nice to come to Sotha and see even fights, instead of AD just owning the map so often. Hope to play with more of the DC folk soon

A_G_G_R_O

We had a really good round of fights against EP emp and friends last night in 3rd floor Kingscrest. Took you all quite some time to route us 4 from your keep. I’m glad you milk drinkers didn’t skitter off to go console your feelings at the Riften tavern whilst binging on sweet rolls. I wouldn’t want the pact getting any softer on us.

Malibulove

The irony of small-manning and 1vX has always been that people mostly do it from the winning side on the emptier campaigns. Because when all you want to do is gank or farm, it's more fun to fight your outnumbered fights from the side where you never have to worry about siege.

Sotha used to have a ton of elite DC, does anybody actually think they all left just because Daniel and the Ocean zerg stopped carrying them? lol no. But when even bigger DC guilds are complaining about counter-siege and having to take keeps, you know those small-mans are going to be looooooooooong gone.

And we see that every weekend. All kinds of names and guilds show up out of the woodwork from DC (and EP) the moment their faction has pushed out and they're not forced to be siege-monkeys.

EdmundTowers

Malibulove wrote: »

And we see that every weekend. All kinds of names and guilds show up out of the woodwork from DC (and EP) the moment their faction has pushed out and they're not forced to be siege-monkeys.

I notice that too. People don't like to log into the side campaigns (non-Vivec) unless there are outposts to derp over. Ez access to pvp at the bridge or mile gate; and when you die you get to respawn nearby, no problem. Same for your enemies, they will be back to fight you real soon.

But when you're faction is pushed to their tri-keeps or even worse their gates, its just long horse rides and painful sieges after that. Most players go somewhere else when faced with that. I think this is the main reason why the lagfest that is Vivec remains the most populated server, because there are big guilds that do all the sieging for you there. The average pug can just jump in and follow the zergs around. Most solo/small scale players will also go to Vivec, so they can farm those pugs and not care about one side being pushed off the map. The big guilds will take back keeps and re-establish ports/respawns that enable ez access to non stop pvp at the outposts.

A_G_G_R_O

Malibulove wrote: »

The irony of small-manning and 1vX has always been that people mostly do it from the winning side on the emptier campaigns. Because when all you want to do is gank or farm, it's more fun to fight your outnumbered fights from the side where you never have to worry about siege.

The only irony here is your thinking of having a valid opinion on something you currently can’t do in game. Had you have, you would know there aren’t winning sides to small scale and solo PVP’ers. We don’t care about scrolls or scores or what keeps we own. We just want fights. Most of the turncoat pugs join factions with strong small scalers because they got tired of being farmed. Just like the blue ball Zerg that left for “competition” in vivec after their whole ball Zerg got 1vX’d, recorded, and dropped on YouTube; pugtatoes prefer the “Winning side”.

A_G_G_R_O

[Deleted-Double Post]

A_G_G_R_O

[Deleted -Double post]

Leinova

Malibulove wrote: »

The irony of small-manning and 1vX has always been that people mostly do it from the winning side on the emptier campaigns. Because when all you want to do is gank or farm, it's more fun to fight your outnumbered fights from the side where you never have to worry about siege.

What? We were in a five man group, pushed to our gates with no scrolls and we went to BRK and Arrius and forced an emp group of 15+ people come and try to stop us. Using siege on us, while we were already at a significant disadvantage (no scrolls, no emp) and it was some of the best PvP on Sotha I've experienced (for me at least I can speak for the rest of the people I was with) for a long time.

Small man groups are actually very annoying to run if you're already in a winning campaign because then a zerg will just follow your group around, ruin the fun, and force you to relocate.

Everyone I know doesn't log in, see the map entirely their color and think "Wow this will be fun!" No. It doesn't work like that. The most fun you can have is when your campaign only owns your tri-keeps, because you know there will be fights and resistance.

jaysins

I was in that five man group mentioned above the other night and can confirm it was a blast for us until AD started getting way more population. Everyone's favorite AD emp told me EP had the highest pop and a certain blue guild that likes to ride roughly kept going after our tri-keeps, even though EP had emp and most of the map, and I logged on immediately knowing we'd have lots of outnumbered fights. The whole point of small scaling and soloing is the challenge. I prefer being outnumbered and logged onto shor once AD really got going last night.