Sotha Sil NAPC Part VII

Mihael

Haven't been in sotha much lately but to the people saying ad and ep team up are they outnumbering you by a lot? Because i think it would be easier to fight 5 ad and 5 ep instead of 10 ad because they can't heal each other and can risk killing each other

Phreeki

Man this thread has degenerated fast lol Inb4 lock.

Zander98

I leave the campaign and it falls to pieces...

Sigh.....

esotoon

Mihael wrote: »

Haven't been in sotha much lately but to the people saying ad and ep team up are they outnumbering you by a lot? Because i think it would be easier to fight 5 ad and 5 ep instead of 10 ad because they can't heal each other and can risk killing each other

They are mainly made up of stam builds, including Wardens so are able to self heal and heal each other and survive a lot of damage, whilst not relying on AOE damage to kill. They are also mainly made up of highly skilled, experienced players that like to 1vX so are all perfectly capable of surviving a lot of damage without support. And for added fun, they sometimes have an Emp with them. As for numbers it depends. DC are usually outnumbered pretty much most the day, except for some reason through late night (3am'ish+ EST), when Oceanic & Europeans players seem to play DC more than other factions.

When there is usually only 1 DC group left running, it doesn't take many for them to make the fights unwinnable. Depending on the situations they will do two different things. If it's a clutch moment (last Emp keep defence) then yes, they all fight together. More usually though (depending on how many other players from their factions are on at the time), AD will fight us with a few EP harassers, whilst a few of their other EP players take back Keeps/Outposts. If we split to defend, they move more across too and we lose both Keeps we are fighting at. If we stay in one group we can defend one Keep and lose the other. So it is a win, win for them no matter what we do. Later in the night when numbers drop then they will again join forces.

As a result of controlling both fronts, usual tactics don't apply here because neither side is focussed on there own faction's self interests. So for example EP will gladly leave their Keeps Blue/Yellow, and their scrolls in AD's hands if they are needed to take a DC Keep/Outpost on the other side of the map and sit in it in order to cut us off. And AD have no need to care if EP are taking Emp keeps,, they can keep pushing DC, just as long as the Keeps are turned anything but blue. And when you control two factions, there's never any need to defend anything or worry about being cut off should we try to send a small group behind their lines. Why bother? You can never be cut off when they you can just flip a keep/outpost red/yellow as and when needed, so they can always keep their full numbers focussed on us. The only thing they have to concentrate on is pushing DC back - the spoils can be divvied up after.

So they have the numbers (usually), the skill base, and tactical advantage no matter what.

During the hours of peak DC population, their influence isn't as great, but after that time, their influence is so great there becomes no point even trying. Hence why DC disengages and just goes get some AP elsewhere. We then get accused PVPDooring and not wanting to have a fair fight. LOL

Rickter

Is there a perception at the moment that there are barely any players on Sotha?

this week, what ive seen, and this is with the new content and new trial with the new weapons, I'll log on around 7:30EST which is my usual time. typically, I'll have around 5 in my group at this time because I consider it "early evening". There are usually 8-10 AD around DC tri keeps and they are fighting from defensible positions, and are expert counter siegers, and it makes the whole experience like trudging up a muddy hill.

Finally around 8:30-9PM Requiem fields around 12 (last night we had 15) and we can start being aggressive, relatively competitive, and influence the map. AD numbers grow at that point as well and we generally speaking, see prety good fighting.

Every night this week has been what I would have considered a "good night" on Shor. Lots of fighting against large groups 10+

I havent seen too many of the EP regulars though. My experiences have almost entirely been with AD. and AD have lots of players. LOTS.

Despite the zerging, Ive seen a refreshing change in scenery and a vastly different play dynamic than what ive been used to. We havent fought an Emperor group, its been pretty clearly drawn fighting across the board.

I do want to mention however, the wolves were out last night and only @Chrlynsch knows the actual size of that raid but id bet there was more than 24 for sure. There wasnt a whole lot we could do against that but the nightmare ended almost as soon as it began and we ended the night with a high note defending Nikel against AD and farming around 20k AP before calling it.

esotoon

Rickter wrote: »

Is there a perception at the moment that there are barely any players on Sotha?

DC has struggled to get above 1 bar for at least a couple campaigns now, because of the exodus of some of their guilds.

EP, is struggling this campaign because of the exodus of some of their guilds after the last campaign.

AD still gets far more numbers during most times of the day but they are far more disorganised than they were due to the exodus of some of their guilds after the last campaign.

So more than a perception unfortunately.

Chrlynsch

@Rickter We only got up too about 14 last night in group. There was no doubt about another group of about 8 EP that was reacting to stimulus as we were, and usually ended up at similar places to each other. Heck we put two holes in Chal because we weren't communicating.

Not sure who the other group was though as I've been running without adds ons and didn't catch any names.

It will be harder for the wolf pack to operate as 4 wolves does not generate unlimited form anymore.

Rickter

Chrlynsch wrote: »

It will be harder for the wolf pack to operate as 4 wolves does not generate unlimited form anymore.

oh really? was that one of the changes this past patch? They really should just make it a toggle like warden bear

Sedare

Sotha NA PC is a crap fest. Not enough of a balanced population, double to tri-faction guilds just farming ap and wiping, spotting, or trolling anyone who randomly comes upon the action intending to help their faction. In other words, it's a complete and utter [snip] show.

Allowing people to login to different factions within the same campaign, not having anything real to fight for to stimulate faction loyalty, and so much more is slowly, quickly, or already has depending on perspective, killing pvp in this game.

[Edited to remove profanity masking]

Rickter

Sedare wrote: »

In other words, it's a complete and utter [snip] show.

would you say. . . known [snip] show?

[Edited for quote]
[Edited to remove profanity masking]

jaysins

Well as a part of theknown ones loved by all I'd be pretty unhappy not to be able to switch between factions. Now that I've finally got my EP fully geared I can go there when AD has the overwhelming numbers. I basically dropped out of the campain even though I was in second as I wasn't having fun playing on AD and focused on creating and gearing out my two EP PvP toons. Some of us are just never going to care about factions, or the campaign, except for how much fun we're deriving from it and how it benefits ourselves and the group we play with. And that's our right a players to play as we see fit as long as long as we're following the TOS. Now, zos could create a rogue faction where you can't take keeps and can attack everyone and be attacked by everyone and I'd be happy to do that as you're all just AP in my eyes. The more targets I have, the happier I am.

Joshlenoir

esotoon wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

Haven't been in sotha much lately but to the people saying ad and ep team up are they outnumbering you by a lot? Because i think it would be easier to fight 5 ad and 5 ep instead of 10 ad because they can't heal each other and can risk killing each other

They are also mainly made up of highly skilled, experienced players that like to 1vX so are all perfectly capable of surviving a lot of damage without support.

Put some respeck on my name.

Sedare wrote: »

Allowing people to login to different factions within the same campaign, not having anything real to fight for to stimulate faction loyalty, and so much more is slowly, quickly, or already has depending on perspective, killing pvp in this game.

Not trying to insinuate that you're directly targeting me but since the shoe fits I'll reply.
I play or "faction hop" because I have multiple friends on multiple factions that I wish to play wish. Also take into account faction dynamics change every month or two (AD dominated now but it definitely wasn't always that way), as well as with different campaigns. Personally, I find die hard faction loyalty to be more of a zerg/RPPVP thing since large scale guilds have a much harder time to moving to other factions as it requires every player to have a fully leveled PvP ready toon. Also this can come from players that have resentment from fighting people and by extension associate the faction to the player they dislike. I made an EP because all AD seems to want to do is wipe the map with 2-3 bars of population versus 1 bar and give each other pats on the back for doing so. Frankly I make much more AP playing on EP because more people = more kills, and AP=Gold for me.
I don't think there should be any penalty for faction hopping however as there are legitimate reasons to play different factions at any time. The only issue is players that deliberate faction hop to the winning side and then zerg with them to avoid dying so much.

esotoon

Joshlenoir wrote: »

I don't think there should be any penalty for faction hopping however as there are legitimate reasons to play different factions at any time. The only issue is players that deliberate faction hop to the winning side and then zerg with them to avoid dying so much.

I don't think many have a problem with players swapping factions if they are boosting their ranks and are genuinely going to fight for that faction. The problem comes when those friends split themselves across factions to also start working together to control the map.

If the people involved were taking keeps and resources on behalf of their new faction great. It's when they take/don't take keeps and resources, and work alongside their friends in order to benefit the Campaign/AP gain of each other that the problem comes. Or stand around with each other flipping resources.

fablliott

Sorry to butt in here, im a returning player who used to be pretty active on azuras 2 years back, and will start playing again sometime next week. Am i correct i guessing that sotha is the 30 days non cp camp? And was wondering if all the old players were still around? (:

Malibulove

I checked a few days ago right after the campaign started; flipped a resource on each of my different faction toons to gain AP and see what the leaderboard range looked like. AD had nearly as many characters ranked as DC and EP combined.

And to be frank nobody is zerging that much anymore, but when everybody is at 1 bar and the entire map is full of a single factions level 5 keeps... hard to muster excitement especially when AD has enough pop at all times that they hit 2 bar occasionally throughout the day.

It's not even bad AP necessarily, if you have a group to resource farm or something. But not many randoms are going to stick around for that day after day.

esotoon

fablliott wrote: »

Am i correct i guessing that sotha is the 30 days non cp camp?

Yep.

Raknosh

fablliott wrote: »

Sorry to butt in here, im a returning player who used to be pretty active on azuras 2 years back, and will start playing again sometime next week. Am i correct i guessing that sotha is the 30 days non cp camp? And was wondering if all the old players were still around? (:

Azura 2 years back? I think at that time, that was THE main campaign of the game. When they made the CP changes, the main campaign switched to Trueflame (now Vivec) since it was the only 30day CP campaign. As for if the old players still around, some maybe, but the PvP is really starting to die now. Only 1 campaign still has decent pop.

Taysa

LOL.

The justification in this thread is hilarious.

10/10. Please keep going. I'm bored at work.

Guilds are leaving Sotha because of changes to combat. L-O-fricking-L. That's the best thing I've read all day. You'll seriously say anything to delude yourself into thinking you're not the problem, won't you?

Kartalin

TM rehomed to Vivec because we still wanted to play AD and we weren’t getting consistent action on Sotha. We also prefer to fight equal or greater numbers, there just to wasn’t any challenge or enjoyment to roflstomping smaller groups in Sotha (outside of very specific groups ). Thus we’re on Vivec now. We’d still prefer to be on Sotha and if things change we’d consider returning at some point.

Welcome back btw @fablliott. I remember you from the early days of no cp Azura’s. Most of the regulars from then are still around some, whether in other factions/campaigns or just doing BGs or PVE.

WhiteMage

Logged in after a few months away. Let me tell you that was a mistake.

There were zerglings everywhere, I assume, because the map was yellow, even though I couldn't find them for the most part. Killed a few, got killed some because I've grown sloppy. There were only two names I recognized, and they were in a duo. Somehow after all these months this certain AD duo maintained a hate *** for me, enough so for me to remember mine for them! Found the good one's @ name, sent him a tell, and received an unhealthy dose of held-a-grudge-in-too-long from him. I tried to be a big boy, but I couldn't do it: I swapped to AD and gave him an ,!, in zone...

WhiteMage

...you didn't see this cuz you ignored me, but I said you're good, Maikon. I kept impaling myself on your duo because I was hoping to get a good 1v1 against you, without the potato spamming BoL, javelin, and flares. That sour attitude though, it's as bad as mine!


Separately, this game is still an unbalanced mess.

Taylor_MB

@WhiteMage At least we have no CP BG's when we get sick of Cyrodiil...

... oh wait.

Rickter

Hey folks, I regretfully inform you that <Requiem> will not be homing on the Sotha Sil campaign. After a week on the server, it became very clear to us that we were unprepared, and unwilling to conform to the combat demands of the server. Politics aside, there are some fine folks on the server and I wish the best for everyone on the campaign who are passionate about noCP pvp as it is a truly unique pvp experience.

Farewell!

Adenoma

I'm curious what the combat demands of the server were that required preparation. I'm sad to see you go!

Rickter

Hey @Adenoma thanks as always for the kind words and support. Speaks a lot about your character in that you would encourage an opposite faction and I want you to know that does not go unnoticed.

With that being said, essentially these were the issues:

Kill Enemy Nightblades = Kill Enemy Players. That is a fact on Sotha Sil. What that means? every single engagement we're taking a hail of arrow fire and when attempting to deal with that "tactic" the nbs just cloak away and popping innerlight/camo hunter immediately is seemingly useless, due to the innate server lag that is unavoidable and not specific to ESO.

As if that wasnt frustrating enough, the players on Sotha have been thoroughly trained to lay copious amounts of fire siege immediately on enemy contact due to their months having to fight off true 60 man zergs.

So a stand up, straight up fight is nigh non-existent on Sotha Sil and I admit, as a raid leader I did not adapt by designating siegers, or necessarily adjust our positioning to handle the nb archers and sieging. It's just not an environment we were used to, equipped for, or expecting. It would take dedication, hard work, and a true focus to adapt/adjust/conform to the server's combat demands.

The politics were present but not as much of a nuisance as the forums make it out to be. We just wanted to fight and push objectives and have fun. Instead, we found groups (and i am not in anyway pointing fingers) essentially cowering in keeps, firing siege like there was no tomorrow and cloaking nightblades picking off people from max distance but crumble under 2 dizzying swings IF you catch them. I honestly have never seen the knee jerk, instinctual reaction to lay siege immediately upon enemy contact as I have in Sotha. I believe it's become the "new thing" and that makes me very sad and worried.

With that being said, this was absolutely an adjustment/dedication needed on <Requiem>'s part and no one elses. Im not making excuses, Im just stating that because it was a style of play we were not used to, nor wanted to conform to, it would be detrimental to the health of the guild to stay as I felt we'd lose more than we gained by staying.

Kartalin

Pugs seem to instantly lay down siege everywhere you go now. We’ve found that out in Vivec too. It’s like they don’t want to learn how to fight anymore, and are too scared to come out (while they still have free respawns no less) unless they outnumber us by at least 3 to 1. It gets pretty frustrating at times.

Joshlenoir

Taysa wrote: »

LOL.

The justification in this thread is hilarious.

10/10. Please keep going. I'm bored at work.

Guilds are leaving Sotha because of changes to combat. L-O-fricking-L. That's the best thing I've read all day. You'll seriously say anything to delude yourself into thinking you're not the problem, won't you?

No if you reread what I said. I said that's PART of the reason no cp is dying in general and that's just a plain fact. I wasn't necessarily referring to this cycle alone. You have way less options than CP active and numbers are much much much more important than compared to vivec.
I'm the problem? Last time I checked I don't run any zerg guilds that paint the map yellow and the maximum size my groups reach are rarely ever 8. point your frustration towards the people actually pvdooring and night capping your keeps then defending them with superior numbers the next morning rather than a random, small minority of players you dislike.
I lose no sleep over any guilds on any faction leaving sothasil because free will exists and It takes me 1 second to que into vivec and have fun when sotha sil is dead.

Adenoma

@Joshlenoir , I don't think that's a super productive attitude. A lot of us do have problems with folks leaving Sotha because they can't play Vivec. I know that in my case Sotha's my best offer because I literally can't get more than 15-20 FPS in Vivec starting at around 2pm EST and I literally can't load the campaign during primetime. So to me, it really kills my PvP and fun when folks leave the campaign to play Vivec/PvE.

You're a good PvPer, but you aren't good enough to make folks want to leave. You're just acting selfish and toxic enough to motivate the switch.

gabriebe

People are leaving Sotha because its politics are just plain toxic, tbh. This thread just being a reminder of that every day. And since the queue for the big city is pretty manageable for most folks, and the CP bonuses are front-loaded, there's kind of no reason to go to Sotha unless your CPs are under 300 or you lag horribly. I will admit though, I'm sure it would be a lot more enjoyable as a campaign if it could keep a constant 3 bars every day, for at least half the day.

Joshlenoir

esotoon wrote: »

Joshlenoir wrote: »

I don't think there should be any penalty for faction hopping however as there are legitimate reasons to play different factions at any time. The only issue is players that deliberate faction hop to the winning side and then zerg with them to avoid dying so much.

I don't think many have a problem with players swapping factions if they are boosting their ranks and are genuinely going to fight for that faction. The problem comes when those friends split themselves across factions to also start working together to control the map.

If the people involved were taking keeps and resources on behalf of their new faction great. It's when they take/don't take keeps and resources, and work alongside their friends in order to benefit the Campaign/AP gain of each other that the problem comes. Or stand around with each other flipping resources.

Once again, sieging and taking keeps outside of farming players has always bored me. People have accused Kita and I of "trading keeps and resources" which simply isn't true. We've even been accused of it when I was playing on the same faction with him, at the same time, in his group..
Anyways there's no (and there shouldn't be) any obligation to work the map or take objectives to "help your faction", whatever that means. Cyrodiil campaign rewards and benefits revolve around AP. ZoS has designed the game in the way the AP Trump's everything else. You can be #1 on a faction without buying a single siege or sieging a single keep then get gold rewards while people that only work the map in large groups will ultimately make less AP for worse rewards. Bad game design? Maybe. However wishing to control the map is the last thing I care about, honestly. My faction can be getting gate camped and as long as the AP is there I'll be happy.