Sotha Sil NAPC Part VII

Joshlenoir

Kartalin wrote: »

Joshlenoir wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

Also, if you small scale wipe zerg squad or Drac with your skills then you'll have my vote that you small scalers are superior.

yes because 6 people are going to wipe 24 (edited for sarcasm)

FWIW, Drac tends to run less than 16 — usually 14 or 15. More challenging than you realize even with even numbers. That style doesn’t really fly in Sotha though, it’s too dependent on CP. But the application of the style is similar to small scale, hit and run tactics, string out larger groups to take chunks out of them a bit at a time using line of sight and choke points, and stay constantly mobile. It’s more of an extrapolation of small scale style applied to medium sized zergs to fight larger zergs, 24+.

I never said people in 14-15 can't be challenging. I said as a general rule the larger the numbers go usually you'll start to have less emphasis put on you being good at your craft (whatever that may be). I've played in 10-12 man groups that are organized and it's a hell load of fun don't get me wrong. I understand if you're fighting 30 people, having a 6 man won't cut it.
It's just that often time I've seen so many players in these "medium sized groups" of 10-15 players say they do X by themselves or have wiped dozens of players when in reality they're surrounded by their own factions pugs and it's just your basic zerg v zerg with one organized group thrown in the mix. Such are the dynamics of this type of gameplay because 99% of the time when you fight at keeps you'll always have other people / groups at the same spot seeing as it's the most basic, introductory form of gameplay that can easily include everyone regardless of skill level or time played.

gameswithaspoon

In other news, Spoon went in on her Werewolf Spoon for the first time tonight. And she found a EP seiging the Front Door of Drakelowe and she smushed him. ALL BY HERSELF!!

Rin_Senya

Joshlenoir wrote: »

yes because 6 people are going to wipe 24 (edited for sarcasm)
I'm talking about a strong 6 man group wiping 10-12 people, it happens a lot.

Drac normally run 10-16, just FYI

Adenoma wrote: »

IMO, I would think that coordinating groups like Zerg Squad or Drac is a lot more demanding than small scale (which is ambiguously more than one, less than zerg). By the fights they seek, I guess those are small scale because they maintain similar ratios of group:opponent.

Small scale by what I've experienced with some folks on here is just loose proximity play where you're more or less soloing around someone else and every once in a while you actually focus damage.

Most of the folks I've talked to who are involved with those organized guilds have a heck of a lot better understanding of game and class mechanics than any small-scale player I've chatted with in Sotha. That said, it's a different environment in which they're trying to function. I would argue that those guild groups are juggling more variables in their decision making than most small scale groups given the volume of opponents.

Good point.

Also @A_G_G_R_O Drac and Zerg Squad have one of the most experienced players in this game. They play not only in organized raids but smallscale and solo too. And if you calling players that play in such groups and guilds "braindead" then it simply means that you are braindead yourself

Sylphie

Adenoma wrote: »

Small scale by what I've experienced with some folks on here is just loose proximity play where you're more or less soloing around someone else and every once in a while you actually focus damage.

lolwut. I don't know about the smallscalers you have encountered but duo/trios that don't focus targets, peel for each other and coordinate ultis/ccs won't last against any semi competent group. That said, there is quite a large difference in playstyle between smallscale (2-4) and medium scale (5-12) groups. I've tried coordinating a 6-8 man group with a friend a few times and it never ended well since everyone was so used to running solo or duo.

Speaking of smallscale, here's another mediocre magicka dk video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS3XQ-AbBw8

Sylphie

odd111out wrote: »

In other news, Spoon went in on her Werewolf Spoon for the first time tonight. And she found a EP seiging the Front Door of Drakelowe and she smushed him. ALL BY HERSELF!!

Congrats on your first 1v1!

Adenoma

@Sylphie that's been my experience playing with folks on AD in Sotha - some of them have regularly posted in this thread. I totally agree, though. When playing with my regular partners that's exactly what I do.

A_G_G_R_O

@Rin_Senya GvG?

I also don’t mean all 16 of drac, This isn’t a ZvZ

asneakybanana

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

@Rin_Senya GvG?

I also don’t mean all 16 of drac, This isn’t a ZvZ

How many is an acceptable gvg for you? 1? 2? My guess is 2

A_G_G_R_O

4v4 5v5 6v6

Adenoma

Please record if this happens. Tell redsky I'm sorry for being rude in the past and to have some fun.

asneakybanana

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

4v4 5v5 6v6

Go play BGs if you want 4v4.

A_G_G_R_O

If I wanted advice on how to arrange a deck peaking siege v siege @asneakybanana , I will be sure to reference a relevant source like yourself. Once BGs let you chose game mode to only death match I’m sure you will see me in there. Until then it’s currenty 4 tanks on an objective point, 4 tanks hold a chaos ball, or my favorite 3 tanks and one slightly fast tank running the relic.

Vilestride

This argument has been had 1000 times and is still filled with as little intelligent insight as ever.

I don't know any top raid players who don't also participate in small scale because yes, there are skills you learn playing smaller scale that get honed faster than when playing with a raid.

That being said it is by no measure superior and the same can absolutely be said about the inverse. I have seen many top 1vX players under preform in raid because they lack skills that are more unique to the play style. Note I specified more, not exclusive. in my experience they have been less effective with their teamwork and communication as well as lacking in intuition which is heavily required in raid.

There is also much to be said about the relativity and subjective definition of skill and consider it along side experience. For example I have no doubt I would loose most duels to anyone who duels regularly but I invite any of those same duelers to come to raid and try to out heal me.

I am sure there will be some who can but do you see my point about relativity?

Context is often lost on the irrational.

A_G_G_R_O

Vilestride wrote: »

This argument has been had 1000 times and is still filled with as little intelligent insight as ever.

I don't know any top raid players who don't also participate in small scale because yes, there are skills you learn playing smaller scale that get honed faster than when playing with a raid.

That being said it is by no measure superior and the same can absolutely be said about the inverse. I have seen many top 1vX players under preform in raid because they lack skills that are more unique to the play style. Note I specified more, not exclusive. in my experience they have been less effective with their teamwork and communication as well as lacking in intuition which is heavily required in raid.

There is also much to be said about the relativity and subjective definition of skill and consider it along side experience. For example I have no doubt I would loose most duels to anyone who duels regularly but I invite any of those same duelers to come to raid and try to out heal me.

I am sure there will be some who can but do you see my point about relativity?

Context is often lost on the irrational.

Ok.
GvG?

asneakybanana

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

This argument has been had 1000 times and is still filled with as little intelligent insight as ever.

I don't know any top raid players who don't also participate in small scale because yes, there are skills you learn playing smaller scale that get honed faster than when playing with a raid.

That being said it is by no measure superior and the same can absolutely be said about the inverse. I have seen many top 1vX players under preform in raid because they lack skills that are more unique to the play style. Note I specified more, not exclusive. in my experience they have been less effective with their teamwork and communication as well as lacking in intuition which is heavily required in raid.

There is also much to be said about the relativity and subjective definition of skill and consider it along side experience. For example I have no doubt I would loose most duels to anyone who duels regularly but I invite any of those same duelers to come to raid and try to out heal me.

I am sure there will be some who can but do you see my point about relativity?

Context is often lost on the irrational.

Ok.
GvG?

I would say by definition GvGs are organized fights between 8v8 and 24v24 simply because that's what guild groups would comprise. The fact that if a guild only had 4-6 ppl in it and even with 50% subs meaning rosters of 6-9 they still would not even have a guild tabard unlocked I simply can't count those as 'guild vs guild' fights and they would be better off being hosted by a dueling in a tournament style than as a GvG. I'm sure we would be more than happy to fight you in a 12v12 but I doubt you will agree to that citing zerging or something.

jaysins

asneakybanana wrote: »

I would say by definition GvGs are organized fights between 8v8 and 24v24 simply because that's what guild groups would comprise. The fact that if a guild only had 4-6 ppl in it and even with 50% subs meaning rosters of 6-9 they still would not even have a guild tabard unlocked I simply can't count those as 'guild vs guild' fights and they would be better off being hosted by a dueling in a tournament style than as a GvG. I'm sure we would be more than happy to fight you in a 12v12 but I doubt you will agree to that citing zerging or something.

A 12v12 would be difficult to do for us because of how few of us there are and getting that many online at the same time is pretty rare. We would have to most likely recruit outside the guild. However, an 8v8 would be much more manageable and fit your stated definition of a GvG so no problems there, so let us know. Also, your answer when he was asking for a 4v4 doesn't make sense because, and maybe you don't know this, but BGs are actually 4v4v4 and not what AGGRO said he was looking for. Just an FYI

Vilestride

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

This argument has been had 1000 times and is still filled with as little intelligent insight as ever.

I don't know any top raid players who don't also participate in small scale because yes, there are skills you learn playing smaller scale that get honed faster than when playing with a raid.

That being said it is by no measure superior and the same can absolutely be said about the inverse. I have seen many top 1vX players under preform in raid because they lack skills that are more unique to the play style. Note I specified more, not exclusive. in my experience they have been less effective with their teamwork and communication as well as lacking in intuition which is heavily required in raid.

There is also much to be said about the relativity and subjective definition of skill and consider it along side experience. For example I have no doubt I would loose most duels to anyone who duels regularly but I invite any of those same duelers to come to raid and try to out heal me.

I am sure there will be some who can but do you see my point about relativity?

Context is often lost on the irrational.

Ok.
GvG?

Sure but I don't see what a 4v4 would prove for you brother. Clearly you're not quite understanding what I am saying about context and experience. Asking me to 4v4 you is like asking a soccer team to play off against a basketball ball team in a game of basketball.

Joshlenoir

Vilestride wrote: »

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

This argument has been had 1000 times and is still filled with as little intelligent insight as ever.

I don't know any top raid players who don't also participate in small scale because yes, there are skills you learn playing smaller scale that get honed faster than when playing with a raid.

That being said it is by no measure superior and the same can absolutely be said about the inverse. I have seen many top 1vX players under preform in raid because they lack skills that are more unique to the play style. Note I specified more, not exclusive. in my experience they have been less effective with their teamwork and communication as well as lacking in intuition which is heavily required in raid.

There is also much to be said about the relativity and subjective definition of skill and consider it along side experience. For example I have no doubt I would loose most duels to anyone who duels regularly but I invite any of those same duelers to come to raid and try to out heal me.

I am sure there will be some who can but do you see my point about relativity?

Context is often lost on the irrational.

Ok.
GvG?

Sure but I don't see what a 4v4 would prove for you brother. Clearly you're not quite understanding what I am saying about context and experience. Asking me to 4v4 you is like asking a soccer team to play off against a basketball ball team in a game of basketball.

No, it's actually not. PvP is PvP regardless of numbers. If you can't 1v1, fine. Group PvP can range from 4 all the way to 24. If you think 8, 12 and 24 is more to your speed, but you can't operate in a 4 versus 4 scenario then thats a player issue.

Vilestride wrote: »

This argument has been had 1000 times and is still filled with as little intelligent insight as ever.

I have seen many top 1vX players under preform in raid because they lack skills that are more unique to the play style.

Please tell me what "skills" you need to operate in a 24 man zerg. Theres a reason people learn to small scale and 1vX after coming from playing in large "raids". Raids appeal to newer players where they can rely on a large amount of others for help and support whereas the smaller your group is the harder it becomes.
The only way a "1vX" type player would "underperform" in a "raid" is if their entire setup is single target burst with no support capabilities or multi-target burst. Once again, not a skill issue, but it's a build / ability change that would need to happen. It's interesting you think that playing with 23 other people requires any other skill set apart from stacking on crown, pushing ults and running into a keep. I've done it for months when I started playing this game as have many many other people. The only difference is some players become veterans, max CP, and move on to more challenging ways of PvPing, while others stay in the same environment even after acquiring 1000 CP's. Once again, nothing against "raid" groups in PvP but its a much simpler playstyle.

Vilestride

Joshlenoir wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

This argument has been had 1000 times and is still filled with as little intelligent insight as ever.

I don't know any top raid players who don't also participate in small scale because yes, there are skills you learn playing smaller scale that get honed faster than when playing with a raid.

That being said it is by no measure superior and the same can absolutely be said about the inverse. I have seen many top 1vX players under preform in raid because they lack skills that are more unique to the play style. Note I specified more, not exclusive. in my experience they have been less effective with their teamwork and communication as well as lacking in intuition which is heavily required in raid.

There is also much to be said about the relativity and subjective definition of skill and consider it along side experience. For example I have no doubt I would loose most duels to anyone who duels regularly but I invite any of those same duelers to come to raid and try to out heal me.

I am sure there will be some who can but do you see my point about relativity?

Context is often lost on the irrational.

Ok.
GvG?

Sure but I don't see what a 4v4 would prove for you brother. Clearly you're not quite understanding what I am saying about context and experience. Asking me to 4v4 you is like asking a soccer team to play off against a basketball ball team in a game of basketball.

No, it's actually not. PvP is PvP regardless of numbers. If you can't 1v1, fine. Group PvP can range from 4 all the way to 24. If you think 8, 12 and 24 is more to your speed, but you can't operate in a 4 versus 4 scenario then thats a player issue.

Vilestride wrote: »

This argument has been had 1000 times and is still filled with as little intelligent insight as ever.

I have seen many top 1vX players under preform in raid because they lack skills that are more unique to the play style.

Please tell me what "skills" you need to operate in a 24 man zerg. Theres a reason people learn to small scale and 1vX after coming from playing in large "raids". Raids appeal to newer players where they can rely on a large amount of others for help and support whereas the smaller your group is the harder it becomes.
The only way a "1vX" type player would "underperform" in a "raid" is if their entire setup is single target burst with no support capabilities or multi-target burst. Once again, not a skill issue, but it's a build / ability change that would need to happen. It's interesting you think that playing with 23 other people requires any other skill set apart from stacking on crown, pushing ults and running into a keep. I've done it for months when I started playing this game as have many many other people. The only difference is some players become veterans, max CP, and move on to more challenging ways of PvPing, while others stay in the same environment even after acquiring 1000 CP's. Once again, nothing against "raid" groups in PvP but its a much simpler playstyle.

I already listed some but seeing as how the sick mad skillz 1vX kids in this thread seem to have a hard time grasping notions that don't align with their own I am happy to reiterate. Because I'm a helpful guy like that.

Can't say I've ever run in a 24 man but the number really seems quite arbitrary.

To play in a top teir raid guild one would need the following skill set:

- Self survivability and resource management
- situational awareness.
- intuition
- teamwork and coordination
- communication
- good reaction times and reflexes
- mastery of ones class and combos or Rotations.

If you would like to have an intelligent discussion about this and analyze it in depth with me I would be happy to help you. If you want to continue being reductive and ignorant to the information you are being given from people who actively participate in all forms of gameplay have fun but this bores me.

Not all raid guilds will display all of the skills I mentioned and all of them will be at different levels of them same as some scall scale players will have perfected their skill sets better than others.

I am not taking anything away from you or how you play. I simply expect you to offer the same to people who choose to play differently. Like I said if you think it's easy I invite you to come tag along for a raid and try to out dps our DD or out heal our healers.

Regarding your remark of it being simple I would argue that everything about this game is simple. Chess is simple. It's easy to learn and play so much so that a 5 year old can play it. Yet... We're not all chess masters.

gabriebe

Don`t you know it takes no skill to lead 24 people, there`s definitely no difference of skills between a pug raid and guild raid. /s

Vilestride

gabriebe wrote: »

Don`t you know it takes no skill to lead 24 people, there`s definitely no difference of skills between a pug raid and guild raid. /s

Just zerglings zerging zergs.

Joshlenoir

Vilestride wrote: »

Joshlenoir wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

This argument has been had 1000 times and is still filled with as little intelligent insight as ever.

I don't know any top raid players who don't also participate in small scale because yes, there are skills you learn playing smaller scale that get honed faster than when playing with a raid.

That being said it is by no measure superior and the same can absolutely be said about the inverse. I have seen many top 1vX players under preform in raid because they lack skills that are more unique to the play style. Note I specified more, not exclusive. in my experience they have been less effective with their teamwork and communication as well as lacking in intuition which is heavily required in raid.

There is also much to be said about the relativity and subjective definition of skill and consider it along side experience. For example I have no doubt I would loose most duels to anyone who duels regularly but I invite any of those same duelers to come to raid and try to out heal me.

I am sure there will be some who can but do you see my point about relativity?

Context is often lost on the irrational.

Ok.
GvG?

Sure but I don't see what a 4v4 would prove for you brother. Clearly you're not quite understanding what I am saying about context and experience. Asking me to 4v4 you is like asking a soccer team to play off against a basketball ball team in a game of basketball.

No, it's actually not. PvP is PvP regardless of numbers. If you can't 1v1, fine. Group PvP can range from 4 all the way to 24. If you think 8, 12 and 24 is more to your speed, but you can't operate in a 4 versus 4 scenario then thats a player issue.

Vilestride wrote: »

This argument has been had 1000 times and is still filled with as little intelligent insight as ever.

I have seen many top 1vX players under preform in raid because they lack skills that are more unique to the play style.

Please tell me what "skills" you need to operate in a 24 man zerg. Theres a reason people learn to small scale and 1vX after coming from playing in large "raids". Raids appeal to newer players where they can rely on a large amount of others for help and support whereas the smaller your group is the harder it becomes.
The only way a "1vX" type player would "underperform" in a "raid" is if their entire setup is single target burst with no support capabilities or multi-target burst. Once again, not a skill issue, but it's a build / ability change that would need to happen. It's interesting you think that playing with 23 other people requires any other skill set apart from stacking on crown, pushing ults and running into a keep. I've done it for months when I started playing this game as have many many other people. The only difference is some players become veterans, max CP, and move on to more challenging ways of PvPing, while others stay in the same environment even after acquiring 1000 CP's. Once again, nothing against "raid" groups in PvP but its a much simpler playstyle.

I already listed some but seeing as how the sick mad skillz 1vX kids in this thread seem to have a hard time grasping notions that don't align with their own I am happy to reiterate. Because I'm a helpful guy like that.

Can't say I've ever run in a 24 man but the number really seems quite arbitrary.

To play in a top teir raid guild one would need the following skill set:

- Self survivability and resource management
- situational awareness.
- intuition
- teamwork and coordination
- communication
- good reaction times and reflexes
- mastery of ones class and combos or Rotations.

If you would like to have an intelligent discussion about this and analyze it in depth with me I would be happy to help you. If you want to continue being reductive and ignorant to the information you are being given from people who actively participate in all forms of gameplay have fun but this bores me.

Not all raid guilds will display all of the skills I mentioned and all of them will be at different levels of them same as some scall scale players will have perfected their skill sets better than others.

I am not taking anything away from you or how you play. I simply expect you to offer the same to people who choose to play differently. Like I said if you think it's easy I invite you to come tag along for a raid and try to out dps our DD or out heal our healers.

Regarding your remark of it being simple I would argue that everything about this game is simple. Chess is simple. It's easy to learn and play so much so that a 5 year old can play it. Yet... We're not all chess masters.

All the skills you mentioned above apply to literally, any good group, regardless of size. Like I've said 1000 times, the bigger the group gets, the less emphasis you have on those skills. I never said every single raid guild on the game lacks those skills.
Also I'd 100% love to join a raid night one day with an actual good, organized, "large scale", "raid group" and see how it is. Private message me, this will be fun I hope, I can be respectful and I know you can too.

Vilestride

Joshlenoir wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

Joshlenoir wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

This argument has been had 1000 times and is still filled with as little intelligent insight as ever.

I don't know any top raid players who don't also participate in small scale because yes, there are skills you learn playing smaller scale that get honed faster than when playing with a raid.

That being said it is by no measure superior and the same can absolutely be said about the inverse. I have seen many top 1vX players under preform in raid because they lack skills that are more unique to the play style. Note I specified more, not exclusive. in my experience they have been less effective with their teamwork and communication as well as lacking in intuition which is heavily required in raid.

There is also much to be said about the relativity and subjective definition of skill and consider it along side experience. For example I have no doubt I would loose most duels to anyone who duels regularly but I invite any of those same duelers to come to raid and try to out heal me.

I am sure there will be some who can but do you see my point about relativity?

Context is often lost on the irrational.

Ok.
GvG?

Sure but I don't see what a 4v4 would prove for you brother. Clearly you're not quite understanding what I am saying about context and experience. Asking me to 4v4 you is like asking a soccer team to play off against a basketball ball team in a game of basketball.

No, it's actually not. PvP is PvP regardless of numbers. If you can't 1v1, fine. Group PvP can range from 4 all the way to 24. If you think 8, 12 and 24 is more to your speed, but you can't operate in a 4 versus 4 scenario then thats a player issue.

Vilestride wrote: »

This argument has been had 1000 times and is still filled with as little intelligent insight as ever.

I have seen many top 1vX players under preform in raid because they lack skills that are more unique to the play style.

Please tell me what "skills" you need to operate in a 24 man zerg. Theres a reason people learn to small scale and 1vX after coming from playing in large "raids". Raids appeal to newer players where they can rely on a large amount of others for help and support whereas the smaller your group is the harder it becomes.
The only way a "1vX" type player would "underperform" in a "raid" is if their entire setup is single target burst with no support capabilities or multi-target burst. Once again, not a skill issue, but it's a build / ability change that would need to happen. It's interesting you think that playing with 23 other people requires any other skill set apart from stacking on crown, pushing ults and running into a keep. I've done it for months when I started playing this game as have many many other people. The only difference is some players become veterans, max CP, and move on to more challenging ways of PvPing, while others stay in the same environment even after acquiring 1000 CP's. Once again, nothing against "raid" groups in PvP but its a much simpler playstyle.

I already listed some but seeing as how the sick mad skillz 1vX kids in this thread seem to have a hard time grasping notions that don't align with their own I am happy to reiterate. Because I'm a helpful guy like that.

Can't say I've ever run in a 24 man but the number really seems quite arbitrary.

To play in a top teir raid guild one would need the following skill set:

- Self survivability and resource management
- situational awareness.
- intuition
- teamwork and coordination
- communication
- good reaction times and reflexes
- mastery of ones class and combos or Rotations.

If you would like to have an intelligent discussion about this and analyze it in depth with me I would be happy to help you. If you want to continue being reductive and ignorant to the information you are being given from people who actively participate in all forms of gameplay have fun but this bores me.

Not all raid guilds will display all of the skills I mentioned and all of them will be at different levels of them same as some scall scale players will have perfected their skill sets better than others.

I am not taking anything away from you or how you play. I simply expect you to offer the same to people who choose to play differently. Like I said if you think it's easy I invite you to come tag along for a raid and try to out dps our DD or out heal our healers.

Regarding your remark of it being simple I would argue that everything about this game is simple. Chess is simple. It's easy to learn and play so much so that a 5 year old can play it. Yet... We're not all chess masters.

All the skills you mentioned above apply to literally, any good group, regardless of size. Like I've said 1000 times, the bigger the group gets, the less emphasis you have on those skills. I never said every single raid guild on the game lacks those skills.
Also I'd 100% love to join a raid night one day with an actual good, organized, "large scale", "raid group" and see how it is. Private message me, this will be fun I hope, I can be respectful and I know you can too.

I don't disagree with this, and I have argued towards what you are saying in many other threads that have arisen about group size. to quote myself in a thread literally titled 'PvP group sizes' here I am talking about how an individual has less effect the larger a group gets.

I get what you guys are saying, there is merit to it and no doubt the feeling you are describing happens. I have definitely experienced this. My point though is the larger the group, LITERALLY the less impact an individual has. I don't know if you guys use combat metrics to review your fights but as an example if its me and one other healer healing a 12 man raid, then Izy at the end might pull up his combat metrics and see that Vilestride did 40% of his healing. That is the measurable impact I had on the raid. If we pump up our numbers and get 2-3 more healers in there is no chance I am going to be doing 40% of the raids healing. Obviously its give or take, I might be 40% of one persons heals, 25% for someone else, 30% for the next guy and so on but as an average my percentage of the groups heals would always drop the more healers we added. (I better just get good right? :P)

I think the reason stalker refers to it as the magic number is because for a lot of group players it is the equilibrium of being able to be effective as a group, push objectives and contest other large groups, which is the game play we want to be involved with, while at the same time not feeling like we are fading into one of many.

The Healers example I just gave could be applied to even smaller groups and one might think "hey vile, but if you just healed a 4 man you could be hitting 70-80% of the groups heals and feel even more worthwhile" While I agree, and for many people this is why they love small scale and solo, they know that the results they achieve are exactly that, theirs.

For me though, this magic number is the balance between this feeling of worth, and the kind of game play I want to participate in and be viable. That is my position on it, you and others will value different things and sit at a different point on the scale. As you have stated in the past, you value pushing the map, taking keeps being on the front line day in day out, and that's fair, for that I concede its more viable to run full raids, its just not what we all wanna do.

Ultimately all I am saying is let's not simplify it to "ohh you run with more than 1, 2, 3, X, Dogs and cats or whatever, you must be bad at ESO period" and instead let's apply some context to the points we are trying to get across. Some people in here have definitely done that and obviously none if this is directed at you/them specifically, however others have taken the latter as their disposition.

A_G_G_R_O

Can they just close this thread and campaign already.

Joshlenoir

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Can they just close this thread and campaign already.

I think ZoS should Add an extra map, combine it with cyrodiil, then make there be only one vet server with IC as well. Fix their servers to address the lag, there would be fights all over the damn place. That'd be cool

Adenoma

Give them money and they might give you the magical Christmasland you want.

Mihael

I think most good small scale players could easily transition to large scale all they have to do is switch their abilities and build around a bit. When you are playing in small scale for the most part you are accountable for your own healing ,buffs damage, and sustain , but in a large group you usually have a healers and other players running group buffs. I think the hardest thing for me would be getting used to the lag from always being in large fights

gameswithaspoon

Spoon loves having all the different kinds of groups that make up the Sotha Sil campaign. A faction is like a military: you need seal teams, and tank brigades, and nuclear submarines and the regular old infantry. None of you are better, since all of you are needed. But she is very glad the most effective form of group is only on Vivec, the destro-ball. Even if nothing makes money like stacking 1,000,000 destro ultimates. Cause she likes to play with sound.

StaticWave

Small scale is always superior than large scale because people have to pull their own weight. Most small scalers run their solo open world build, and if necessary they may change a few skills, but they don't have the luxury to run 4 destro ults 2 negates, while having 4 healers behind spamming BoL and healing springs. Each player has to know his build and rotations, how to LoS as a cohesive unit, how to use his environment to his advantage, how to focus damage, how to peel for teammates, how to stack vigor if they're stam classes, how to avoid unnecessary movements to conserve resources, etc. If 1 player dies, the group loses its effectiveness and subsequently its chance of winning an outnumbered fight. Large groups don't suffer as much because they still have a lot of players to compensate for 1 death. This disadvantage forces small scalers to get better. If you put 5 small scalers in a group of large scalers, they would do just fine, and arguably increase the group's effectiveness. However if you made 5 large scalers play in a small group, they would most likely fail because they are so used to playing in large groups that they cannot operate effectively without the support from other people. If you formed a large group full of small scalers, well, say gg to whichever campaign they play in because the pugs in it would most likely be farmed all day everyday

gabriebe

StaticWave wrote: »

Small scale is always superior than large scale because people have to pull their own weight.

Ever heard of Vicious Death?