Official Feedback Thread for Enchanting

Divinius

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your ongoing feedback on the enchanting changes.

We’re definitely listening and appreciate the concern regarding the inability to harvest potency runestones. As a result, we’re planning on trying a modification to the existing runestone harvest loot table so it will always provide an essence and aspect as it does now, but it will also provide a 1/3rd chance at a potency instead of a chance of a bonus aspect runestone . The potency runestones will continue to be offered by vendors to give you the option of buying instead of harvesting as desired.

This change will be implemented in an upcoming PTS update, and we will continue to monitor feedback and metrics.

Faith in ZOS = Restored

Thank you very much!

Now, about that issue where everyone is still going to leave the Ta runes in the nodes....

OldManJim

Thank you for listening, ZOS!

smacx250

MasterSpatula wrote: »

While I appreciate that ZOS is listening to the feedback, I think the compromise solution still misses part of the problem: Fun!

Enchanting is my favorite craft. When I'm out in the wild, I always get a thrill from finding a rune. I love the little shine, sometimes out in the open and sometimes obscured--especially at dusk or night. When I see an Essence rune, my reaction is always, "Sure, I'll grab that." When I see a Potency Rune, I often think, "Awesome! I need those." And when I see that red glow, a tiny little adrenaline burst hits. "Maybe," I say to myself, "just maybe I'll get lucky." Ok, the huge majority end up being Tas, which are worthless, but that exciting moment of possibility is part of what I enjoy in the game.

By making one kind of node that drops all three runes, you remove that variety of possible emotions, that excitement of feeling like you're putting together a puzzle by finding the variety you need. I'm sure, in the new system, there'll be a thrill of "Maybe it'll be a potency!" but, frankly, we don't need a maybe on potencies. They need to be uncommon enough to be exciting but common enough to be able to do what we need to do. Meanwhile, you're removing the excitement of coming across Aspect runes and that almost scary moment of possibility. All runes will be essentially the same, it will be more dull, and the disappointment of looting a Ta will become more noticeable than the thrill of possibility.

Simply put, the change takes a source of joy out of the game.

People have already suggested a really good way to improve participation in Enchanting, and this has been suggested since before the inspiration boost way back in the day: Introduce green and better glyphs to the loot tables with corresponding inspiration gains. This wouldn't have to flood the market with Aspect runes. Greens and blues are only used for leveling characters. Purple and gold glyphs could be rare and extremely rare. Aspect extraction could remain where it is, which is slightly-uncommon. This might introduce a few more Rekutas and Kutas into the world, but not enough to hurt anything.

I would suggest a slight nudge upward in the chance to extract Potencies, though.

I usually hate to do "this", but this ^^^ !!!

Even with the great news that potency will be harvestable, it really is more fun the "old way".

Pomaikai

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your ongoing feedback on the enchanting changes.

We’re definitely listening and appreciate the concern regarding the inability to harvest potency runestones. As a result, we’re planning on trying a modification to the existing runestone harvest loot table so it will always provide an essence and aspect as it does now, but it will also provide a 1/3rd chance at a potency instead of a chance of a bonus aspect runestone . The potency runestones will continue to be offered by vendors to give you the option of buying instead of harvesting as desired.

This change will be implemented in an upcoming PTS update, and we will continue to monitor feedback and metrics.

We'd happily exchange the chance of ever getting a Ta for a chance at Potency runes. Just put Ta's for sale on a vendor and remove that worthless rune from the loot table and we'll all be happy. Give us MORE Ta's and the Enchanters will become very grumbly...

CadenceRowan

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your ongoing feedback on the enchanting changes.

We’re definitely listening and appreciate the concern regarding the inability to harvest potency runestones. As a result, we’re planning on trying a modification to the existing runestone harvest loot table so it will always provide an essence and aspect as it does now, but it will also provide a 1/3rd chance at a potency instead of a chance of a bonus aspect runestone . The potency runestones will continue to be offered by vendors to give you the option of buying instead of harvesting as desired.

This change will be implemented in an upcoming PTS update, and we will continue to monitor feedback and metrics.

I honestly would prefer the harvesting to be left as it is, so still disappointed; I will miss seeing the different colored rune stones glowing in the wild. This also sounds like potency runes will be harder to find, which I don't like. I seriously still do not see how this is making Enchanting easier.

I also share the concern that I'm going to be finding a lot of Ta's and not much else because people don't pick them up (and I kinda don't blame them).

However, it is nice to know that you are listening, and making an effort to correct. Thank you for that.

But really, can't we just put it back the way it was?

staracino_ESO

There still needs to be something we can do with Ta's outside of selling them for 0 gold or deleting them. My best bet is on refining them as I outlined in my earlier post, but there could be other options. Perhaps, instead of selling the potency runes for gold, have the enchanting vendors trade potency runes for Ta's; with higher potency runes costing more Ta's. Or at least have it as an alternative to gold.
I do not consider simply 'crafting' with the Ta's an option. While essence runes are abundant, it is not worth wasting even a single potency rune to 'use up' my excess Ta's.

BlueViolet

smacx250 wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

While I appreciate that ZOS is listening to the feedback, I think the compromise solution still misses part of the problem: Fun!

Enchanting is my favorite craft. When I'm out in the wild, I always get a thrill from finding a rune. I love the little shine, sometimes out in the open and sometimes obscured--especially at dusk or night. When I see an Essence rune, my reaction is always, "Sure, I'll grab that." When I see a Potency Rune, I often think, "Awesome! I need those." And when I see that red glow, a tiny little adrenaline burst hits. "Maybe," I say to myself, "just maybe I'll get lucky." Ok, the huge majority end up being Tas, which are worthless, but that exciting moment of possibility is part of what I enjoy in the game.

By making one kind of node that drops all three runes, you remove that variety of possible emotions, that excitement of feeling like you're putting together a puzzle by finding the variety you need. I'm sure, in the new system, there'll be a thrill of "Maybe it'll be a potency!" but, frankly, we don't need a maybe on potencies. They need to be uncommon enough to be exciting but common enough to be able to do what we need to do. Meanwhile, you're removing the excitement of coming across Aspect runes and that almost scary moment of possibility. All runes will be essentially the same, it will be more dull, and the disappointment of looting a Ta will become more noticeable than the thrill of possibility.

Simply put, the change takes a source of joy out of the game.

People have already suggested a really good way to improve participation in Enchanting, and this has been suggested since before the inspiration boost way back in the day: Introduce green and better glyphs to the loot tables with corresponding inspiration gains. This wouldn't have to flood the market with Aspect runes. Greens and blues are only used for leveling characters. Purple and gold glyphs could be rare and extremely rare. Aspect extraction could remain where it is, which is slightly-uncommon. This might introduce a few more Rekutas and Kutas into the world, but not enough to hurt anything.

I would suggest a slight nudge upward in the chance to extract Potencies, though.

I usually hate to do "this", but this ^^^ !!!

Even with the great news that potency will be harvestable, it really is more fun the "old way".

I also agree with this. It really is fun "the old way"
I appreciate ZOS listening to the feedback, and reaching a compromise, but simply speaking for myself, I don't see anything wrong with the current system, apart from the leaving of Ta runes in nodes. I didn't know people did that since I take everything and thought everyone else did too

Ideally, I would love for this whole new enchanting thing to be scrapped altogether, apart from maybe the dual rune drops, and leave the system as is; perhaps making inspiration from deconstructing and constructing far more rewarding, alongside increased enchantment drops.

That isn't going to happen however, but I think it's awesome that you guys listened to the feedback and took it all into considerations. Thanks

kevlarto_ESO

I enjoy the harvesting part but if your going to do away with it do not penalize the crafter with high prices to purchase something that was once free to gather, thousands of gold for runes feels just wrong, make them cheap since you are removing an option that some people enjoy.

James-Wayne

Maybe they need to remove a harvesting item from the game world to help ease the LAG issues? Anyone thought of that?

TerraDewBerry

James-Wayne wrote: »

Maybe they need to remove a harvesting item from the game world to help ease the LAG issues? Anyone thought of that?

Nope.. if that had been the issue.. they would have said so as a means of justifying the unwanted change.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

...So my understanding is, if I want to keep doing Enchanting Writs, I'm going to need to buy a Runestone? Every single day for every single character?

BergisMacBride

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your ongoing feedback on the enchanting changes.

We’re definitely listening and appreciate the concern regarding the inability to harvest potency runestones. As a result, we’re planning on trying a modification to the existing runestone harvest loot table so it will always provide an essence and aspect as it does now, but it will also provide a 1/3rd chance at a potency instead of a chance of a bonus aspect runestone . The potency runestones will continue to be offered by vendors to give you the option of buying instead of harvesting as desired.

This change will be implemented in an upcoming PTS update, and we will continue to monitor feedback and metrics.

Well I am gratified to see that the devs do listen to feedback. Thanks for the update, Gina, and thanks to the devs for making the effort to address our concerns. I certainly look forward to testing the changes on PTS when they go in with the next update. At first glance, 1/3 seems a little low compared to the other two but we'll see how it is in practice.

That being said, and at the risk of sounding like a glass half-empty person, I would like to say that my personal preference would still be to return runestone harvesting to the way it is currently on live and keep the vendor. IMO, the drop rates currently are sufficient for most everyone's needs. Plus, I really like seeing the different colored runestones out in the world when I am questing or exploring (even if you keep the current generic runestone, could you perhaps have them spawn in a random color?). I also second the often mentioned suggestion of adding green, blue and rare purple glyphs to loot tables. I would even go as far as to add the occasional gold glyph as an additional reward for weekly PvE and the PvP leaderboards.

Korah_Eaglecry

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for your feedback on the change to Potency runes. The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor. This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

I can understand there may be some confusion for a new player just jumping into Enchanting and trying to figure out what does what. But this is just PR spin. The only issue Enchanters face is the insane climb to level 50 for this skill. There is no issue with the abundance of potency stones. There was never a need to "streamline" this system beyond maybe finding a way to make low level runestones useful at higher levels.

What you've introduced is a gold sink that will force any wannabe Enchanter to either give it up entirely or wait until they can bankroll themselves through it. And considering no changes has been made to EXP gain from deconstructing or constructing items. Im gonna go ahead and assume you dont actually care about streamlining. You care about overhauling a current system and making it ready for monetization. I fully expect to see some Potency Mimic Stone suddenly find its way into the Crown Store about a week after Dark Brotherhood makes it to Console.

Korah_Eaglecry

Divinius wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your ongoing feedback on the enchanting changes.

We’re definitely listening and appreciate the concern regarding the inability to harvest potency runestones. As a result, we’re planning on trying a modification to the existing runestone harvest loot table so it will always provide an essence and aspect as it does now, but it will also provide a 1/3rd chance at a potency instead of a chance of a bonus aspect runestone . The potency runestones will continue to be offered by vendors to give you the option of buying instead of harvesting as desired.

This change will be implemented in an upcoming PTS update, and we will continue to monitor feedback and metrics.

Faith in ZOS = Restored

Thank you very much!

Now, about that issue where everyone is still going to leave the Ta runes in the nodes....

They remove 100 % of Potency from the wilds of Tamriel. Only to give us a 1/3 chance drop rate and your faith is restored?

You do know we didnt win anything here right?

Calippe_Hac

Ashtaris wrote: »

I can think of only one plausible reason they did something like this, to come out with a generic potency rune purchasable in the crown store very similar with what they did with the Mimic Stones. I hope I'm wrong, but I have a very bad feeling about this.

>>>>>>>>BINGO<<<<<<<<<

There is no logical gameplay reason for this change even with the updated change:

ZOS_GinaBruno
admin

Hey guys, thanks for your ongoing feedback on the enchanting changes.

We’re definitely listening and appreciate the concern regarding the inability to harvest potency runestones. As a result, we’re planning on trying a modification to the existing runestone harvest loot table so it will always provide an essence and aspect as it does now, but it will also provide a 1/3rd chance at a potency instead of a chance of a bonus aspect runestone . The potency runestones will continue to be offered by vendors to give you the option of buying instead of harvesting as desired.

This change will be implemented in an upcoming PTS update, and we will continue to monitor feedback and metrics.

NB--"We're planning on trying a modification to the existing runestone etc.." (italics mine.)

Note that they haven't changed their idea to remove potency runes in the wild but only "trying a modification" re: potency runes.

The initial reason:

to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills

just rings hollow.

What?
Isn't there a community here?
Don't people trade (for gold or not)?
Aren't there guilds with a community of players?
What is this sudden concern after all this time?

This all sounds strange unless there is some (get ready for the conspiracy theory ) ulterior motive as was mentioned in the first quote.

(Ashtaris wrote: »

I can think of only one plausible reason they did something like this, to come out with a generic potency rune purchasable in the crown store very similar with what they did with the Mimic Stones. I hope I'm wrong, but I have a very bad feeling about this.)

I also have a very bad feeling about this.

Lylith

bunnytrix wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for your feedback on the change to Potency runes. The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor. This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

Then please answer the glaring question : Why not add potency runes to a vendor in addition to being able to harvest them?
And how does a crafter "have control" if they do not have the gold to purchase the required potency rune, where before they could go out into the world and "have control" by harvesting the rune they need?

Edit 2: The frustration has nothing to do with the price and everything to do with the fact that you can no longer harvest potency runes.

^this x 1000^

acw37162

Anyone figured out the tune combination to make spell damage weapon glyphs?

Or the new weapon damage and spell damage glyphs?

lohworm

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

They remove 100 % of Potency from the wilds of Tamriel. Only to give us a 1/3 chance drop rate and your faith is restored?

You do know we didnt win anything here right?

I do not understand as you do :

now :
33% or so of runstones in the wild give for sure a potency rune
33% or so of runstones in the wild give for sure an essence rune
33% or so of runstones in the wild give for sure an aspect rune
(actually, not sure for the 33%/33%/33%)

next :
100% of runstones in the wild give both aspect+essence runes
100% of runstones in the wild give potency but with a 33% chance

33% of runstones with 100%rate <=> 100% of runstones with 33%rate

Do I totally miss the point ?

Dromede

lohworm wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

They remove 100 % of Potency from the wilds of Tamriel. Only to give us a 1/3 chance drop rate and your faith is restored?

You do know we didnt win anything here right?

I do not understand as you do :

now :
33% or so of runstones in the wild give for sure a potency rune
33% or so of runstones in the wild give for sure an essence rune
33% or so of runstones in the wild give for sure an aspect rune
(actually, not sure for the 33%/33%/33%)

next :
100% of runstones in the wild give both aspect+essence runes
100% of runstones in the wild give potency but with a 33% chance

33% of runstones with 100%rate <=> 100% of runstones with 33%rate

Do I totally miss the point ?

Unless it's too late and my math is wrong, you are right. This way, per 1 Enchanting nod we will get an essence and aspect rune and a 33% chance at potency vs having to harvest 3 separate nodes before.

The change seems to be beneficial unless they mess with overall rune node quantity. They seem to be more rare now in comparison with Live ( PTS Gold Coast vs Live Wrothgar). Could be me and my perception (paying extra attention to nodes and all), or could be for real

The way it is right now on PTS, all enchanting nodes are red in color and only drop essence+aspect.

Waiting for the new update to see the change. Again, I'm grateful for the listening, but still feel uneasy about the change. I liked harvesting system the way it is now on Live.

Elephant42

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your ongoing feedback on the enchanting changes.

We’re definitely listening and appreciate the concern regarding the inability to harvest potency runestones. As a result, we’re planning on trying a modification to the existing runestone harvest loot table so it will always provide an essence and aspect as it does now, but it will also provide a 1/3rd chance at a potency instead of a chance of a bonus aspect runestone . The potency runestones will continue to be offered by vendors to give you the option of buying instead of harvesting as desired.

This change will be implemented in an upcoming PTS update, and we will continue to monitor feedback and metrics.

This sounds like an excellent response to the feedback, thank you. :thumbs up:

Moozzie

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for your feedback on the change to Potency runes. The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor. This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

You could just have dropped more mats per gathering...

ContraTempo

If the problem is that people have a hard time finding potency runes of the right level, how about if they are made additive?

So LvL10 + LvL 20 = LvL 30

Suddenly it's a lot easier to get what you need. IF that's actually the problem ZoS is trying to solve.

Moozzie

Moozzie wrote: »

You could just have dropped more mats per gathering...

Or increase the amount of xp gained

Moozzie

ContraTempo wrote: »

If the problem is that people have a hard time finding potency runes of the right level, how about if they are made additive?

So LvL10 + LvL 20 = LvL 30

Suddenly it's a lot easier to get what you need. IF that's actually the problem ZoS is trying to solve.

That would be a weird excuse you find them in high level zones like you would find high level ores..

Eiagra

There's a lot of talk to wade through here, and a lot of general disapproval, so forgive something of a blind post.

As I currently understand the system -- and understanding that I have yet to test the system -- it seems like a fair compromise would be to do the following:

1.) Allow both polarities of Potency runes to be purchased at a vendor (as the proposed system currently does)... AND

2.) Have two separate types of harvestable Rune nodes: One type that grants both an Essence and an Aspect rune... and one type that grants both a Positive and a Negative Potency rune. 50% chance that it will be one or the other type.

3.) CONSIDER: Greatly increasing the number of glyphs found as loot... greatly increasing the success rate of extraction upon a deconstruction attempt... and/or both. Maxed out passives should grant fairly close to a 100% extraction rate if you truly want to make these resources more available to players.

I have no access to any metrics, but from experience as a materials hoarder I can agree that lower-level runes are in pretty short supply, and so were the VR16 glyphs/runes until you changed the drop rate and ability for hirelings to provide them. I can also agree that Enchanting is one of those skills that is exceptionally difficult to level in such a way that it keeps up with your current tiers of equipment/crafting ability -- unless you have a crafting buddy and ample resources -- so I can see why you are making these changes in an attempt to remedy that. I just hope the final result is done in a way that is not exclusionary.

RocDonald

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your ongoing feedback on the enchanting changes.

We’re definitely listening and appreciate the concern regarding the inability to harvest potency runestones. As a result, we’re planning on trying a modification to the existing runestone harvest loot table so it will always provide an essence and aspect as it does now, but it will also provide a 1/3rd chance at a potency instead of a chance of a bonus aspect runestone . The potency runestones will continue to be offered by vendors to give you the option of buying instead of harvesting as desired.

This change will be implemented in an upcoming PTS update, and we will continue to monitor feedback and metrics.

I'm sorry, Gina. But if these are your plans you should just scrap them. I really sincerely apologize for being blunt but if your goal is to make enchantment better simply add colored glyphs to drops. There's really plenty of runes to go around for those who care to actually look for them.

Titansteele

I am not going to say I have read all of these posts, there are many

I am disappointed that development time would be wasted on this. I undersatnd that there will be different teams working on different things but I would say that Enchanting was something that was not broken and therefore did not need fixed.

My only vexing issue with enchanting was the Ta`s ...... so many Ta`s that I honestly can not even give away and binning them feels wasteful and goes against all my core principles!

I am glad ZOS are listening to feedback but I am concerned that these changes cost $X and therefore rolling it back/out completely would be admitting it was a waste of $X so they will try to adjust it.

Roll it back please

RocDonald

Titansteele wrote: »

I am not going to say I have read all of these posts, there are many

I am disappointed that development time would be wasted on this. I undersatnd that there will be different teams working on different things but I would say that Enchanting was something that was not broken and therefore did not need fixed.

My only vexing issue with enchanting was the Ta`s ...... so many Ta`s that I honestly can not even give away and binning them feels wasteful and goes against all my core principles!

I am glad ZOS are listening to feedback but I am concerned that these changes cost $X and therefore rolling it back/out completely would be admitting it was a waste of $X so they will try to adjust it.

Roll it back please

My thoughts exactly

Fischblut

I buy potency runes from traders only when I need to enchant my new gear but I don't have time to gather runes myself; and it's ok for me because buying is optional and I have a choice. It won't be ok when buying is the only option.

Enodoc

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your ongoing feedback on the enchanting changes.

We’re definitely listening and appreciate the concern regarding the inability to harvest potency runestones. As a result, we’re planning on trying a modification to the existing runestone harvest loot table so it will always provide an essence and aspect as it does now, but it will also provide a 1/3rd chance at a potency instead of a chance of a bonus aspect runestone . The potency runestones will continue to be offered by vendors to give you the option of buying instead of harvesting as desired.

This change will be implemented in an upcoming PTS update, and we will continue to monitor feedback and metrics.

That sounds pretty good to me! I think that puts chance at harvesting Potency the same as it is on Live? I assume that it's currently equal 1/3 chance that a runestone spawns as either Aspect, Essence, or Potency.

So as lohworm says, the chance of Potency doesn't change, and you now get 100% chance of Aspect and Essence.

So the overall changes as now planned are:

• 3x increased chance of harvesting Aspect
• 3x increased chance of harvesting Essence
• No change in the harvesting chance of Potency
• Potency can now also be bought at vendors
• No upper limit on the equipment that Glyphs can be applied to
• The overall power of weapon enchantments has been significantly increased

While I would love to see an increased Inspiration gain for all activities (considering the levelling time is so slow), this is now an entirely positive list of changes, and ones that I am certainly happy with.