Official Feedback Thread for Enchanting

elvigy01

I don't have much to add to what everyone else has said here but wanted to put in my $0.02. I'm absolutely utterly opposed to this. I say this as someone who is only level 49 in Enchanting even after a lot of time playing. While it was slow to get there, at least I wasn't forced to pay gold to level it. That's ridiculous.

babylon

I think, ZOS, what you're hearing us say here is "no".

Cendrillion21

This change is completely ridiculous. Zos please re-consider before launch, crafting should absolutely be about gathering, not buying **** off a vendor.

susmitds

This change is absolutely ridiculously bad. It is going to heavily affect enchanting economy. If you must do something like this, then add some way extract enchantments from gear (maybe not a 100% chance, but maybe 80% with a new three tier passive). Then you can get the enchantment and extract the runes out of it. Also then potency runes should need a greater chance to be extracted.

Divinius

I'm late to the party, and admittedly haven't read the whole thread yet (but I will).

I'd just like to add in my voice of displeasure at this unnecessary change as well.

rysc

So what I am seeing is this:

Now when I go to a node I will find TA because, just like worms, the player before me will leave them.

In order to make any runes, I will need to spend gold to get the right level potency

In order to level up, I will need to spend a lot of gold to get the potency, make a glyph, send the glyph to someone else so they can just break it down for the xp. And they will have to do the same thing. I think I would rather them just send the gold rather than use this gold sink.

Which one of these is supposed to make enchanting more inviting? Are crafting writs going to offer rewards equal to the 2k-6k we have to spend on the glyphs?

Ourorboros

Based on official response and zos history in similar changes (I'm looking at you, Collectibles), one thing seems certain: This change WILL happen, regardless of impassioned or reasoned pleas from us. I also will not be surprised if predictions of a Master Potency in the crown store comes true, a la mimic stones.

edit: Our impassioned or reasoned pleas worked! zos blinked and made enough of a reversal to put this issue to rest. See post from Gina below.

CP5

Anyone want to do the math and see how much gold it would cost a new player to level enchanting? Dropped glyphs give barely any experience so people will likely have to still craft/trade/decon, so whatever number that is would need to likely be doubled given the other players gold invested as well.

Altairien

Ourorboros wrote: »

Based on official response and zos history in similar changes (I'm looking at you, Collectibles), one thing seems certain: This change WILL happen, regardless of impassioned or reasoned pleas from us. I also will not be surprised if predictions of a Master Potency in the crown store comes true, a la mimic stones.

Most likely.

And when the big hook is announced/realized by players...
(I'm pretty sure I see it in the patch notes, but I hesitate to state it just in case...)

Of course, this is just speculation (based on history, and not just in this game). It's still a bad idea even absent a possible Crown connection.

Korah_Eaglecry

Im about half way through leveling Echanting. Been busting my Altmers butt doing it but I dont see this change as helping. In fact its going to make it harder on me since Ill actually have to commit gold to CRAFT!

I smell Crown Store. I normally dont have an issue with that thing. But Ive played enough F2P/B2P games to know when strange changes like this come along. Theyre almost always heralding something being added to the store. To decide that the tempers for Enchanting have to be bought with gold means only one thing.

Kwivur

This game can go to hell..

Preyfar

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

Gina, can I ask a favor?

I think this new system is decently streamlined, but has an annoying flaw. 90% of the time Aspect nodes are Ta, and people leave them on the runestone and walk away. Why? Ta has ZERO value on NPC vendors, DOES NOT sell on guild stores and has almost no value for enchanters. It's like finding a brown banana. You can't give Ta away (I've tried!).

Because of this, players ignore Ta and leave it on the nodes (the same way people leave cloth harvest nodes).

This prevents other nodes from spawning since the Ta-bearing nodes are still considered full. It's rather annoying. A very minor quality of life thing, but annoying nonetheless. Would ZOS consider adding value to Ta to make them worth selling to NPC vendors? Encourage players not to leave these new singular nodes with nothing but a single Ta and keep the cycle of nodes spawning.

Nahz

This change to enchanting is a mistake. Do you remember why ZOS stated they did not add an alchemy hireling? Because gathering was part of the experience. Is gathering not supposed to be part of the enchanting experience?

Some people have mentioned that they would be ok with runes being available from vendors if they also had the option of harvesting them too. Some have stated this would be appropriate because some provisioning materials are available from vendors. I would agree to lower level potency runes being sold by vendors, but kura through repora-tier runes should only be harvestable. That would allow people to level enchanting easier, but still allow endgame potency runes to have value.

Another option would be to sell essence runes in vendors since they generally are not as valuable anyway, but vary so drastically when harvesting. This would allow lower level players to level enchanting, and make specific glyphs for their builds.

Caroloces

Based on official response and zos history in similar changes (I'm looking at you, Collectibles), one thing seems certain: This change WILL happen, regardless of impassioned or reasoned pleas from us. I also will not be surprised if predictions of a Master Potency in the crown store comes true, a la mimic stones.

Even if it were placed in the Crown Store, there is still no reason to make it unharvestable. There will always be players in such a rush that they can't be bothered to explore and search for nodes. Those are the players that will pay crowns to pick up potency runes. Case in point: Psijic Ambrosia can be crafted in the provisioning line from elements found in the world, but one can always purchase Experience Scrolls in the crown store if one lacks the patience to farm the perfect roe.

What gives me pause for concern is that certain elements in the world would become so frustratingly hard to find that one would be forced to pay crowns to achieve one's goals. Right now, I believe Nirncrux is challenging to farm because its rarity makes its achievement in blacksmithing and clothing a significant accomplishment. If Nirncrux was suddenly offered in the crown store, and then its rarity in the world increased to the point of mind-numbing frustration, I would feel manipulated and my estimation of the game would plummet.

Elsonso

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Im about half way through leveling Echanting. Been busting my Altmers butt doing it but I dont see this change as helping. In fact its going to make it harder on me since Ill actually have to commit gold to CRAFT!

I smell Crown Store. I normally dont have an issue with that thing. But Ive played enough F2P/B2P games to know when strange changes like this come along. Theyre almost always heralding something being added to the store. To decide that the tempers for Enchanting have to be bought with gold means only one thing.

If this is the long game... it is sad. If they could figure out a way to make money on this game without changing the game so they can squeeze us for cash, they could probably make a game that people would pay for without needing to do this sort of thing.

Anyone think that they will decide that Alchemy is also pretty neglected, all that nasty running around and getting wet trying to collect from those confusing water nodes, and pull the nodes and sell bottled water? That way they can sell Crown Water, and the combat team can make sure that people don't use as many top tier potions?

Fruitmass

Ourorboros wrote: »

Based on official response and zos history in similar changes (I'm looking at you, Collectibles), one thing seems certain: This change WILL happen, regardless of impassioned or reasoned pleas from us. I also will not be surprised if predictions of a Master Potency in the crown store comes true, a la mimic stones.

Thinking the same thing when I saw this. It's going to be just like patch 2.1.4 with that whole improvements to monster trophies thing all over again. Improving and streamlining something by taking the worst possible solution to the situation imaginable. A change that nobody seems to want and will likely end up screwing over a huge portion of your player base.

If they really wanted to make improvements to enchanting, rather than turning the world upside down with something clearly very few people (if anybody) wants, they could just go through and adjust Potency runes so that we no longer have 2 positive and 2 negative runes for each tier. Tier 9 has only 1 negative and positive Potency rune. So why not do the same the rest? They'd achieve your goal of streamlining the system with far less imposition on the players. Players have fewer materials to gather and less frustration trying to find the runes they need/want. But then that would be something that makes too much sense.

Honestly I will not be surprised that this goes change Live. They've done this sort of thing before (you know ignore player feedback about genuinely bogus changes) and I see no reason why that would change now. Nor would I be surprised to see Rune bundles or anything like that wind up in the Crown Store.

ThePonzzz

If the prime objective is to move a mimic potency rune into the Crown store, just know, there will be no stopping this. I work on microtransactions in another setting, and these sort of decisions don't come from game designers/developers.

Elephant42

I'll add my 2c to the feedback for the post by @ZOS_GinaBruno.

It's not the price that's the problem, it's the fact that they can't be harvested. It's the same problem I had with V16 enchanting mats when IC came out.

Very bad move ZOS.

maboleth

Well, I have no problem if runes will be available in the crown store. We have something similar already. All kind of materials and buffs can be bought in the crown store for real money. HOWEVER, that stuff can also be acquired/purchased/earned/harvested/crafted in the world. If you are impatient and have cash to burn - well, go buy it. But fundamental game mechanics was not changed because of the store.

This time around they are destroying the freedom of choice. We are forced to do it their way. Even when it just does not make any sense, game wise. It's not enhancing it in any way, quite the contrary.

Just leave that poor rune in the wild! Is that so hard for you?

Benefactor

I really dislike the idea of potency runestones only available at vendors. I feel this makes things a bit more difficult for people getting into crafting as they have to put an initial investment into the item they make. Also the sense of being able to go into the world collect everything you need and form an awesome enchant from what you found has been severely diminished.

smacx250

@ZOS_GinaBruno - thanks for providing some insight into why this change has been made. However, I, like many others, feel that the change is actually counter to the stated goal of increasing the participation in the enchanting skill line. I won't rehash why this is the case - many others have already done so (check the lengthly posts with lots of "agrees" and "awesomes").

That said, I understand that there likely isn't time to make some of the more productive changes that have been suggested to achieve your stated goal for the DB DLC release. However, I would ask that you seriously consider reverting the enchanting changes made for DB on the PTS, and instead work on some of the other enchanting suggestions for a subsequent DLC release. All told I think that will be much more likely to increase player participation and enjoyment of enchanting than what is currently on PTS - even if there is delay in it reaching the players.

NewBlacksmurf

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for your feedback on the change to Potency runes. The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor. This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

So you're intentionally killing one of the worse to participate crafting lines by this change. You acknowledge that ZOS is aware that participation was down so you remove a tune and lock it behind a paywall in-game.

That doesn't help....you literally just skyrocketed the cost of glyphs intentionally so that now only rich players can participate.

FortheloveofKrist

I've been defending and supporting the changes ZoS makes because I know one person can't be satisfied by everything. But this is the most obvious push toward the crown store that I have seen yet. ZoS, you can keep pushing, but eventually people like myself will tire of the prominence of the Crown Store in every "new idea" or "change," and we will move on. I used to play every day. Now I'm moving on the other games because the business model is starting to overshadow the game's entertainment value. Especially when you change core concepts that are not even broken.

acw37162

Making a glyph is roughly the same as before.

Not a fan of having to buy potency runes, will go so far as saying, I hate it. Haven't received one from decon yet either but I've only found and deconed five or so glyphs from Wrothgar on test.

I, absolutely hate that hakiejo runes were rewards items specific to Imlerial City. I absolutely hate hakiejo runes are purchasable and as of yet I haven't found one on live or test from a node and I understand using hakiejo as a hook to get gold chasers and PVE's into PVP land to satisfy the bloodthirsty of your PVP community. I hate that to.

The recent change you made to the outlaw style swords after it had been up and functioning on live for a month for farming, pruchasing, crafting, or selling is just downright despicable.

You have changed a bunch of traits and crafting around with no ability in game to change traits of armor or weapons. Guess those who have gold out armor or gear can just bend over if they wanted to try something new or something worked out better for their build.

The moral of the story is don't even make the time and material investment to be a end game crafter or upgrade your gear to gold it will be a shiny piece glittering junk in your bank gathering dust. Sorry Zeni some of the recent things you guys have done have me very salty.

On a side note anyone know the glyph combination on test to make a weapon enchantment of plus spell damage, I though I saw one the other day on a stream?

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hey guys, thanks for your ongoing feedback on the enchanting changes.

We’re definitely listening and appreciate the concern regarding the inability to harvest potency runestones. As a result, we’re planning on trying a modification to the existing runestone harvest loot table so it will always provide an essence and aspect as it does now, but it will also provide a 1/3rd chance at a potency instead of a chance of a bonus aspect runestone . The potency runestones will continue to be offered by vendors to give you the option of buying instead of harvesting as desired.

This change will be implemented in an upcoming PTS update, and we will continue to monitor feedback and metrics.

Cryptical

Seeing any sort of crown mimic rune or crown potency rune in the store will immediately motivate me to seal my wallet.

I have been feeling excited over the upcoming pride lion mount. Crown rune? --> Nope, no money for a cool lion.

There's a thread about a huge dire wolf type of mount, which I was thinking could be something cool. Crown rune? --> Nope, no money for a wolf mount.

I've been trying to level my enchanting. It's a slog. It feels worthless, like there is no light at the end of the tunnel. It is ALREADY a punishing time sink, and now they want to make it a gold sink as well?

Screw that. Screw. That.

Edit:
Well, dinner was good, and the post of Gina's that landed at the same time as mine is a nice dessert!

I'll say, if it goes from what it is now, to having the essence / aspect nodes contain a 1/3rd chance at a scaled-to-something potency rune... Then I think that would be fine.

As it stands now, I've been working on leveling my enchanting and have not been pumping the blue and purple potency runes through the process because it simply hasn't felt like they show up all that often. I've felt like I should hold on to them because of rarity, like people hold on to kuta and tempering alloy and such. If the blues and purples and *gasp* yellow runes show up more regularly then I'm not going to be hesitant about throwing them onto trait-set armor / weapons I make.

It is fundamentally this simple: If you want more of enchanting, you have to first make sure to ease any scarcity of the components involved.

LaucianNailor

1. Potency Runes available to buy with in-game gold from Merchants - Excellent ideas ZOS
2. Potency Runes REMAIN able to be harvested - Just do the right thing
3. Potency Runes no longer available to Harvest - What on Earth are you thinking
4. Potency Runes (or mimic of) available in the Crown Store - OK providing both 1 and 2 of the above is in place and drop rates are not changed from current live environment - If no 2, then shame on your attempt at exploitation.

Pomaikai

Completely unacceptable.

Ourorboros

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, thanks for your ongoing feedback on the enchanting changes.

We’re definitely listening and appreciate the concern regarding the inability to harvest potency runestones. As a result, we’re planning on trying a modification to the existing runestone harvest loot table so it will always provide an essence and aspect as it does now, but it will also provide a 1/3rd chance at a potency instead of a chance of a bonus aspect runestone . The potency runestones will continue to be offered by vendors to give you the option of buying instead of harvesting as desired.

This change will be implemented in an upcoming PTS update, and we will continue to monitor feedback and metrics.

WOW. I'm speechless! They actually listened!

Divinius

rysc wrote: »

Now when I go to a node I will find TA because, just like worms, the player before me will leave them.

Preyfar wrote: »

90% of the time Aspect nodes are Ta, and people leave them on the runestone and walk away. Why? Ta has ZERO value on NPC vendors, DOES NOT sell on guild stores and has almost no value for enchanters. It's like finding a brown banana. You can't give Ta away (I've tried!).

Because of this, players ignore Ta and leave it on the nodes (the same way people leave cloth harvest nodes).

This prevents other nodes from spawning since the Ta-bearing nodes are still considered full. It's rather annoying.

Dear god, so much this.

This is only going to get FAR worse, since now all enchanting nodes are going to have an essense and aspect rune, and since 90% of the time the aspect will be a Ta, all anyone is ever going to find with be runes where just the Ta was left.

This issue (which has never been corrected) is just going to make it that much worse.

{Edited due to my originally missing Gina's awesome comment above. }