Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Minno

Cryhavoc wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Think the better change would have been to put a cooldown on being ressed over and over -rather than hitting ress speed or sickness. This would really prevent the problem people have, where large groups are being ressed over and over in fights. But this probably goes against some ZOS philosophy of players not being able to play the game or something even though they can always release.

This, the issue wasn't rez speed it's no rez sickness. The issue I have with ZOS is they don't ever pick the correct changes that fix the underlying issue. They only treat the symptoms, they don't understand the WHY's of their own game. They ALWAYS pick the EASY fix, even if it doesn't actually fix anything.

So much truth to this.

Because the people that built the game jumped ship to projects with bigger budgets. Nothing against current ZOS workers kicking their butts trying to make it right (and intense respect since i know how that grunt work can soul-sap lives).
But if you are in a top leader position making decisions you do deserve 100% of the blame for these mistakes and missed opportunities to revitalize the game. They have over a thousand pages of feedback and still nothing? I wish my clients did my work for me ...

I agree. It is amazing how the Templar community came together here with suggestions, critiques, etc. So many great ideas.

"The customer is always right" especially when they understand what they want. ZOS should take notice. More camels and glowy armor skins will not support a game when fundamental problems exist underneath.

Personally, I would be just fine with a "my house" defense play style if I could actually accomplish it....

It's less about consumer and more "client" based.
If this was consumer, we would be free to return the broken merchandise for at least store credit and not be required to provide reports of how we use the product to find bugs.

Since it's client based, we are engaged at every facet of the design and implementation. So our feedback is more than "angry tones"; you cannot succeed without our signed approval.

Only issue is we lack the proper check and balances a client has that forces products or services to conclude correctly (signed fee schedules, withholding funds if product isn't complete, signed documents and changes, etc.)

Gaming industry is lucky no one dies from their products...

Ashamray

I think Templar's Healing ultimate should be compeletly reworked cuz now it is easely replaced with any healing spell, BoL and Healing Spring as example. Templar healers prefer damaging or damage mitigation ultimates.

New unmorphed version will be instant AoE cast (12m radius, 6 max targets) buffing people for 10 seconds (or less, if too OP). This buff saves a player from killing blow and immediately restores 20% of max HP if buffed target dies. Like AoE Phoenix Set. Cost should be 200-250.
A game changer? It may be. But it will be much more useful and interesting than current Rite of Passage.

Ffastyl

Given that there is two weeks until Live, I shall hold out hope until then for a defensive ability or passive.

Once Update 9 goes Live I will give Templar one more shot-- as a hybrid.

BullNetch

Ashamray wrote: »

I think Templar's Healing ultimate should be compeletly reworked cuz now it is easely replaced with any healing spell, BoL and Healing Spring as example. Templar healers prefer damaging or damage mitigation ultimates.

New unmorphed version will be instant AoE cast (12m radius, 6 max targets) buffing people for 10 seconds (or less, if too OP). This buff saves a player from killing blow and immediately restores 20% of max HP if buffed target dies. Like AoE Phoenix Set. Cost should be 200-250.
A game changer? It may be. But it will be much more useful and interesting than current Rite of Passage.

why are PVPers trying to ruin the game for PVE?

Healing nerf because of PVP QQ.

First BoL and then the ultimate. Might as well just get rid of the healing skill line.

Ashamray

BullNetch wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I think Templar's Healing ultimate should be compeletly reworked cuz now it is easely replaced with any healing spell, BoL and Healing Spring as example. Templar healers prefer damaging or damage mitigation ultimates.

New unmorphed version will be instant AoE cast (12m radius, 6 max targets) buffing people for 10 seconds (or less, if too OP). This buff saves a player from killing blow and immediately restores 20% of max HP if buffed target dies. Like AoE Phoenix Set. Cost should be 200-250.
A game changer? It may be. But it will be much more useful and interesting than current Rite of Passage.

why are PVPers trying to ruin the game for PVE?

Healing nerf because of PVP QQ.

First BoL and then the ultimate. Might as well just get rid of the healing skill line.

I don't understand you, seriously.
Are you using Rite of Passage in PvE? I've got bad news for you. U're wasting your ultimate points and your time, coz there are some really nice non-ult skills to execute Rite of Passage purpose

Rainingblood

After almost two years of hoping, I'm shelving my Templar for another class because all three are more fun to play. When it comes to ZoS and Templars... Hope is a lie.

Sallington

Ffastyl wrote: »

Given that there is two weeks until Live, I shall hold out hope until then for a defensive ability or passive.

Once Update 9 goes Live I will give Templar one more shot-- as a hybrid.

Hybrid build huh?

You might want to have a seat, we have something to tell you...

AriBoh

To everyone switching class, don't forget to unsub. They don't deserve your money

Minno

BullNetch wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I think Templar's Healing ultimate should be compeletly reworked cuz now it is easely replaced with any healing spell, BoL and Healing Spring as example. Templar healers prefer damaging or damage mitigation ultimates.

New unmorphed version will be instant AoE cast (12m radius, 6 max targets) buffing people for 10 seconds (or less, if too OP). This buff saves a player from killing blow and immediately restores 20% of max HP if buffed target dies. Like AoE Phoenix Set. Cost should be 200-250.
A game changer? It may be. But it will be much more useful and interesting than current Rite of Passage.

why are PVPers trying to ruin the game for PVE?

Healing nerf because of PVP QQ.

First BoL and then the ultimate. Might as well just get rid of the healing skill line.

Unless otherwise stated on the pts that templar healing is not viable anymore for pve with factual numbers, I'd say pve healing remains unchanged.

Pvp still remains severely unbalanced in many areas.

Im both a pve and pvp Templar. For BOL change, I've yet to see a negative that prompts reason for partisan lines you hint at.

Alorier

AriBoh wrote: »

To everyone switching class, don't forget to unsub. They don't deserve your money

Couldn't have put it any better

nagarjunna

Our house...



This is more like it, with a Templar in it too!

Thal

[flash=]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo35R9zQsAI[/flash]

PriorityBalle

I really like the changes, Templar feels like a much more balanced class now and can really compete with other classes.

Especially the 1m increase in Crescent sweep made a big difference and Breath of Life was very overpowered, especially in Dungeons cause you could almost reach your entire team with it, now its totally more balanced that one person dies because the healers reaction time is equal to a 90 year old with arthritis, gj ZoS on these well thought changes to the Templar class, I really mean it from the bottom of my heart and speak of the entirety of the Templar players when I say, Really well done!

Husan

PriorityBalle wrote: »

I really like the changes, Templar feels like a much more balanced class now and can really compete with other classes.

Especially the 1m increase in Crescent sweep made a big difference and Breath of Life was very overpowered, especially in Dungeons cause you could almost reach your entire team with it, now its totally more balanced that one person dies because the healers reaction time is equal to a 90 year old with arthritis, gj ZoS on these well thought changes to the Templar class, I really mean it from the bottom of my heart and speak of the entirety of the Templar players when I say, Really well done!

Sarcasm doesn't translate well on the internet. A lot of people will think this comment was actually serious.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Husan wrote: »

PriorityBalle wrote: »

I really like the changes, Templar feels like a much more balanced class now and can really compete with other classes.

Especially the 1m increase in Crescent sweep made a big difference and Breath of Life was very overpowered, especially in Dungeons cause you could almost reach your entire team with it, now its totally more balanced that one person dies because the healers reaction time is equal to a 90 year old with arthritis, gj ZoS on these well thought changes to the Templar class, I really mean it from the bottom of my heart and speak of the entirety of the Templar players when I say, Really well done!

Sarcasm doesn't translate well on the internet. A lot of people will think this comment was actually serious.

That is how you know you are doing it right.

Joy_Division

What I believe are still the major problems with Templars. @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KNowak @ZOS_RichLambert @ZoS anyone.

@Soris @bikerangelo @Hymzir @timidobserver @tinythinker @david.haypreub18_ESO @dodgehopper_ESO @BalticBlues @eliisra @Zinaroth @AfkNinja @Zheg @booksmcread @nagarjunna @Cinbri @DHale @Husan @MissBizz @Chelos @Deltia @puffy99 @Essiaga @AriBoh @Sallington @Kaliki @SeptimusDova @technohic @Faulgor @Islyn @Alcast @lots of people I missed. I do not and will not claim to speak for you as these are my assessments. If I missed something point it out please. If I write something that makes sense to you, let the Devs know what is here is not a lonely voice in the wilderness.

The purpose of this post is to identify the major problems with templars, not to fix them. Put the spotlight on them and hopefully provide and impetus for ZoS to do their thing and make the class a versatile, compelling, interesting, distinctive, and fun play. I am historian, not a game designer so I am not going to pretend I have the training and experience to go beyond that and do something competently that's not my job. I am pretty good at analyzing, comparing stuff, and considering perspectives that are not my own. So, I'll just point out the stuff that isn't quite working and just a general idea where I think it needs to go.

Needs Immediate Attention

This tier represents those skills that templars are actually less effective for using and potentially damages their chances of winning.

Healing Ritual - the split second reduction in cast time does not reconcile the fundamental problem Eric Wrobel identified with this skill on ESO Live: "Cause in general the burst damage happens really quickly, like you die really fast, right? ... I hit the ability and I'm like waiting, and I'm waiting, and then they die before it goes off." This on top of the lack of mobility, the potential for interruption, and the short range.
Fix: NO time between casting and healing. Period. End of Story. Make it a HoT. Make it a channel. I don't care. Do NOT have me wait for that heal.

Radiant Aura - No spell in the game should duplicate the common and widely used tri-stat potion. I will never use one of my ten slots and my magicka to provide a redundant buff the people who need stamina are going to have in any case. Note: The Repentance morph is just fine.
Fix: Make it like function like the original spell pre 1.6, i.e, what we get is independent the already present mundane buffs we will have active. Tweak the numbers. Thematically templars providing stamina for their group is very useful function that helps distinguish us.

Sun Shield - It is totally unfair for ZoS to scale our primarily defensive ability of an attribute that its lead combat designer has admitted everyone tries to run as low as possible. This indicates ZoS is aware of the fundamental problem but is content to do nothing to address it. That it is designed to be cast in combat is also a huge disadvantage compared to other shields. It has got to be good. It's not. Unacceptable. Here are some pictures what I have to deal with when trying to defend my "house"


That's my shield. 3204.

And what exactly is that 3204 shield going to do when I have to deal with damage like this?

[

I blocked that! The shield is a woeful. And, take a look at my alleged OP breath of life. Keep telling me Templars are spamming too much healing while ignoring the damage flying around Cyrodiil.

Here's what happens when I don't block



This is a single global cooldown:



Fix: - Do not ask me to run a high health builds because the PvE content ZoS's dungeon team designed thinks I run a high magicka build. Scale the shield to magicka and increase the damage until the whole health is undesirable thing is fixed.

Bad, but not game-breakingly terrible

This tier represents those skills that are lacking with respect to other stuff in the game, but won't actually impede your chances of success.

Radial Sweep - If you are a level 45 max CP expert PvPer terrorizing Backwater Blade, this skill can serve as an excellent means of damage mitigation. Now can we please get an ultimate that has a bit more applicability? This has a range of 6 meters while lava whip and wrecking blow have 7 meters. This often misses targets in its radius (perhaps an elevation issue).
Fix: More range, reliably hitting targets. One of these morphs should do physical damage. The "tank" empowering morph should also put some sort of 8 second debuff enemies. The "damage" crescent morph looks like it may have been addressed (I'll still have to test) but it still should grant some sort of 8 second offensive buff. I will still use Dawnbreaker over the ability because the Fighter's Guild ultimate has comparable damage even to non daedra-undead.

Balanced Warrior (passive). A misnomer if there has ever been one. 1.6 made this passive obsolete. Spell damage please.

Sun Fire - The Vampire Bane morph is a good DPS skill. Everything about this ability needs work. Reflective Light did not get same duration increase. The major prophecy buff is way too short to be practical alternative to mage light.
Fix: - Please Major Prophecy to standard buff duration (20 seconds). Increase Reflective Light's duration.

Enduring Rays (passive). It still the only passive in the game that makes class abilities worse (in this case the Unstable Core morph for Eclipse). Just include the passive's benefits into the standard duration the Dawn's Wrath abilities we want to last longer and replace this with something we need: passive resource management. Because templars need to endure. Every time you cast a dawn's wrath ability, templars get X magicka and stamina. Sound familiar? It should. It was an old passive that never needed to be removed and would really help the heavy armor paladin archetype that so many who rolled this class would like to play ...

Rite of Passage . I know there are people out there that will argue with me and claim this is good or useful ultimate. All I will say is that there was once a time I was near the top of the Trials leaderboards and all my raid leaders rejected the premise that this skill was a viable alternative to healing springs + some other more useful ultimate. Also when the group I run with in PvP loses a fight, it is not because our opponents were using this skill to mitigate our damage. Until I see Hodor run both morphs of this ultimate, I will maintain my position that this is a suboptimal choice for any player looking to maximize their chance of winning.
Fix:. Again we can't move. Fine. Increase the range a bit. Roll the Remembrance morph into the base spell so the immobile Templar is actually doing something constructive for those people not getting heals (i.e. HALF a PVE raid and even more in PvP). The Practiced Incarnation morph extending the duration for this effect would be fine. Make the other morph cleanse negative effects. I also dislike the new animation as it does not as clearly define the beneficial range and effects of this ultimate. Without these changes, I will always spam healing springs when a large amount of stationary healing is required and slot Nova instead.

Light Weaver Perhaps the worst passive in the game. It does nothing to our good abilities and gives marginal increases to only our terrible ones. I don't even spend my skill points here.
Fix: Increase the Templar's armor and spell resistance while within any of her runes or auras. Let's start building that house, huh?

Uninspiring and Mediocre, but occasionally useful

Nothing about the performance of effect of these abilities gets me excited to log into Elder Scrolls and play a Templar even if they perform their function adequately.

Piercing Javelin -Appreciate the range increase, but it's just a generic CC that opponents will simply break. Fix: Debuff enemy somehow.

Spear Wall (passive) Increases block Vs. melee attacks. Historically spear walls were used as a defense against missile attacks. Just saying.

Restoring Spirit (passive) - No templar has ever forgotten the nerf to what was the class's only means of passive resource regeneration. ZoS removed what was an interesting and different means of sustain and gave templars a boring cost reduction that is inadequate compared to the other classes. So now we have not means to defend our house and no passive resource management. Buff please.

Solar Barrage (specific morph) - It's a little better than Impulse ... maybe ... but Impulse has been nerfed so it is also uninspiringly insipid. I will take Dark Flare morph every time.
Fix: Skill needs to do more than just damage.

Cleansing Ritual - Used to be a great ability that gave templars the very distinctiveness Zos seeks. Then ZoS "fixed" this. Thanks ZoS always fixes the beneficial "bugs" to our class (without compensating the loss in effectiveness) but has trouble with the ones the undermine it. I know I have to use it because of a passive, but the skill's actual functionality is now the same as the generic Alliance War Purge skill. Yawn. Boring. Meh.
Fix: It wasn't cool to just take away the defensive capability of this spell without replacing it with something else.

Has potential but is undermined

Toppling Charge - What more can I say that hasn't been said? The most annoying bug associated with this ability is when it starts and you hear the sound effect of the spell but then cancels. I believe this is a NEW bug that did not happen when our main complaints were limited to the cooldown and getting stuck in the charge animation. For what it's worth, I dont get stuck in charges much anymore (thank you very much, I will acknowledge the improvement here), but this happens every single night I play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_a9gKVP3UE

Spear Shards - Does not do enough damage considering the long aim and travel time. We still remember the double nerf to this ability during the IC incremental patches. An AoE that places only 1 debuff is a puzzling mechanic ... especially when 3 seems to be the common number out there (cf. talons, fear).
Fix: Slow speed needs to be strong damage. Make CC component to 3 targets for consistency.

Dark Flare - I don't mind and accept the long travel time because I think it is now the hardest hitting spell in the game. I know that first cast is longer than the 1.1 second tooltip time and that will get a templar killed in PvP. We are mad because stuff like this never gets fixed but when dodge-roller complains about getting hit by toppling charge, that just has to get priority. Fix: 1.1 second cast time.

Backlash - This skill is good in theory but does not scale with spell damage (only max magicka), which turns it into a DPS loss for players who get a lot of spellpower bonuses (such as from spell power cure, major sorcery, Molag Kena, etc). Also the recent changes to the patch makes it noticeably more difficult for a single player to reach the damage cap, particularly in Cyrodiil where there is already a 50% reduction.
Fix: Either the secondary utility function (heal, armor debuff) needs to be more potent or this needs to scale with spell damage.

Rune Focus - A net nerf. On Live, if I put this down and leave, I get the resistance buffs for 8 seconds and the magicka regen for like 20. What ZoS wants to do is make it so both of these last 8 seconds after I leave. Here is the other problem with the skill. ZoS is against homogenization right? OK...why is it that the templar's buff is the same as the sorcerer and NB buff when the templar's is so much more restrictive? This ability does not create a "house" that is somehow sturdier, more resilient, or more advantageous than the sorcerer's "house" (which can move) or the NB's house (which they get while doing damage).
Fix: No idea. ESO requires mobility and ZoS wants templars to stand in one spot. For a start, I would NOT penalize a templar for leaving the Rune. All classes keep their buffs no matter where they go and the same should be for Templars. Instead, incentivize us to stay in that Rune by offering more than generic bonuses and maybe debuff the enemies trying to break in and enter it?

Note: one-third of our class abilities fall into this category!

Abilities worthy of comparison with other classes

Puncturing strikes - It's good but still flawed. Appreciate the snare change but that's still a nerf; this stopped wrecking blow spammers and it won't do that anymore which can be potentially significant. The snare should be on the first hit since the ability locks us into place, not on the last. @Nifty2g says this still can't crit heal and I trust his testing. I still hate the 5% healing nerf and I am piqued to be told it's not a nerf. Magicka templars who charge follow up with this skill and will be getting healed for less. It's another indication to me that ZoS's combat team does not fully grasp how templars try to compete in a PvP environment. Sorry if that sounds mean, but I don't know how else I could interpret ZoS's response to the healing nerf.
Fix: Heals for 40% of damage done; heal can crit; Snare applied on first hit; ability interrupts casters/channels.

Nova - Our only good ultimate. I still don't know why an ally has to be within 3.5 meters of the center to activate the synergy. If a Nova is not crushed, it's a waste of 250 ultimate. It's too expensive.
Fix: Synergy is given priority and can be activate by an ally standing anywhere in Nova. Reduce cost (and DK standard).

Radiant Destruction - Appreciate the recognition that channels should not be dodged. I still dislike ZoS's practice of making its customers play with broken abilities for 6 months. Fix: Upon entering Cyrodiil for the first time, please force new players to go through a "here is how you counter RD" tutorial that demonstrates how bashing, using interrupt skills, cleansing, cloaking, healing, shielding, harness magickaing, moving out of range/LOS, out DPSing the attacking templar, CCing the templar, and other various means can defeat a templar using RD.

Rushed Ceremony - I'm sorry but this skill is overrated. I get it, other classes hate it. But everything a NB says about Cloak, everything sorcerers say about Hardened Ward/streak, and everything DKs says about Reflective Scales applies to Rushed Ceremony when considering how strong it is. Since their signature skills also got nerfed, I will bite my tongue with regards to the blanket and unnecessary nerf to Breath of Life. And it left a sour taste in my mouth that our signature skill was just nerfed without any other consideration/adjustment to other apsects of the spell such as cost/adding non-healing functionality/etc. I still think is it beholden upon ZoS to provide us with these other viable healing options we are suppose to use in class. This means rethinking the get-your-allies-killed Healing Ritual spell and making Rite of Passage feel like I'm doing something more worthy of an ultimate than giving 6 people a HoT.

That's every Templar ability except one that deserves its own special tier

I know ZoS is trying, but it gets worse with every patch

Eclipse - This ability deserves an entire thread of its own. I'll write something pithy tomorrow after class. The short of it is that this spell is objectively worse now that it was before the IC update, a time when it was already uninspiring since many Templars preferred the sword & shield reflect to their own class skill. Yet it has gotten nerfed and worse. Inexplicable.

**********************

Where do Templars stand in the grand scheme of things?

There are some things that are better. As much as we have critiqued and complained, a templar's DPS is unquestionably better and easier to put on target. The more offensively minded templars in PvP are probably going to prefer the Thieves' Guild update than what's on Live. And I know the mending change will make things better for Stamplars (that's all they getting though). I have talked with some templars that are legitimately excited. This should not be ignored. Some good work here ZoS.

However, it is difficult to feel that Templars are on the whole better or more versatile or more interesting to play in the next update.

I think it's 100% clear the class's ability to sustain/mitigate/defend its "house" is absolutely weaker. ZoS can claim the capacity to purify meteors was a "bugfix," that still does not change the fact that a key defensive aspect templars use on Live is being removed without compensation. ZoS can claim the major mending makes up for the healing nerfs, but as someone who doesn't rely on a resto staff to heal in PvP and who uses puncturing sweeps after charging opponents, this isn't lemonade ZoS is selling, it's a 5% healing reduction lemon. More wasted time and mana laying down Runes just to match what we have on Live right now. Eclipse is still somehow restricted to a single target and the defensive capabilities of it on the PTS is an unquestionably a net loss. As it was, a huge critique of the 1.6 change was that templars could not stand their ground adequately to justify the class's lack of mobility. I know about the minor protection addition to Rune, but most templars opt for the magicka recovery because ZoS gives us no resource management. Don't get me started on the 1% increase to my woeful shield to the morph I don't even use. None of this even considers the breath of life nerf.

These changes seem to be pushing templars into a more offensive, glass-cannon approach which is ... puzzling given that probably is not the reason why many players decided to role a templar. I understand that lack of templar DPS has been source of templar agitation (mostly from before 1.6), but I don't think what templars wanted was to be a re-skinned nightblade without mobility or cloak. I mean ZoS took away our best defensive tool in blinding flashes and gave us our best DPS tool in Radiant Destruction. I love RD as it allows me as a healer to better contribute to my dungeon-delving team with some actual and meaningful DPS, but why couldn't this have replaced Sun Fire or Healing Ritual?

There is also a loss of distinctiveness which, again, is puzzling given Eric's recent stated desire to ensure classes were different and has their own identities. People claimed we heal and we had a class tree solely devoted to that. Then some people complained that we healed too much and we rez too fast. Now that got nerfed, sorcerers have pets that heal more than our signature skill and yet somehow we are still stuck we a tree that is devoted to healing even though two of the skills are terrible and its ultimate not used. OK, I guess the anti-healers are happy ... but where does that leave us? What is our place? Why does stuff just get taken away without any recompense? Maybe sorcerers didn't like I could purify their crystal frags. But it was something that made us special and they still were a stronger class than us. Are we now just supposed to be excited for being generic DPS with one less ability tree than the other classes? I still have no mobility, still overly restrictive resource management, still lack the tools to defend my "house," now can't heal as well as I used to. I guess I am supposed to just Jesus Beam all of you.

Most of all, the 40+ pages of disappointment stem from unfulfilled expectations and changes that are just baffling to those of us who play this class everyday. I don't know why I was under the impression this patch was devoted to address balance. I think I heard it on ESO Live at some point. Or maybe because it's been a year since I've been stuck with so many clumsy and inefficient skills and I just assumed it's been long enough. We did our part. We have told ZoS time and time again, with a bizarre and atypical degree of consensus I have never seen in over 30 years of playing RPGs, just how counterproductive many of the templar mechanics are. To see so many of these clear and insightful explanations not heeded or given token adjustments is a huge let down.

What bothers me most about these patch notes is perception of apathy that went behind them. No doubt this is a false impression. But perception trumps reality. Look at the 5% reduction to the healing for puncturing sweeps. It apparently would be inconceivable, inexplicable, incredulous, incredible, implausible, and impossible for Zos to say: "You know what, templars are kind of hurting with their overall tankiness and it's been a common complaint about the class. The change to the major mending passive could potentially increase those sweep heals by a bit under certain conditions. It might make sense to leave that value at 40% to reward templars who are trying to defend their 'house' and besides, we still can't figure out how to get those heals to crit." Just had to put that nerf in there! Or with Healing Ritual. How can I possibly come to a different conclusion that Zos places so little value in our feedback when with a unanimous voice we have said the cast-time kills the spell and yet in the patch notes we see it that the cast time is still there?

I really really really want to believe that Zos's combat team loves templars and that ZoS listens to the templar community and to be perfectly clear I am sure ZoS does, but ... wow we've been stuck with that awful Radiant Aura spell and an inadequate shield for so long, trust me it's not easy. I am tired of seeing our sole remaining only sometimes useful defensive spell eclipse get nerfed every single update. Tired of seeing only beneficial bugs to our class get fixed without the only that plagued it or undermine it not get fixed. Tired of having so many wonky or useless skills diluting our build choices. The constant and persistent nerfs and "fixes" to the little things my class can do that others cannot is driving me nuts. This thread would be just 10 pages long if it were easy for templar players to believe that the other classes were not somehow loved more equally than their own.

I know Zos is trying. I know ZoS cares. I know what is on ZoS's plate and what they would like to do exceeds its manpower/resources. I'm not expecting perfection. I can accept nerfs for the betterment of the game as a whole. But for the love of the Eight Divines, let us help you. Most of this feedback and the stuff we have suggested does have the game's best interest at heart. I know we get hysterical at times, too easily allow our frustrations to overdramatize things we say, and our passions for the class make us overly defensive and sensitive to nerfs and negative adjustments. Besides, you got to admit some of it is rather amusing We wouldn't be templars if we just sat down quietly and meekly said, "OK" when our most defining skill gets nerfed. Trust us when we say we don't use certain skills. Throw us a bone once in a while when you announce on the patch notes that one of our defining features is getting "fixed" or "adjusted." Give us a reason to be excited to do something other than a few more DPS.

I really think it would be a good idea for ZoS to throw some of its more promising ideas for the changes that are supposed to be coming for the Dark Brotherhood on incremental patches. Let us actually see how ZoS's vision shapes up and let us help guide you to a better product. I know Zos says that approach is not as efficient, but efficiency is a really tough selling point when Healing Ritual, Radiant Aura, Rite of Passage, etc., have been so bad for so long. We're just looking for inspiration here. Something tangible to grasp on and say to ourselves, "Looks like ZoS has a legit plan for templars." If you just threw one change to one of our meh skills that a non DPS glass cannon templar would be genuinely excited to try out, it would go a long way. And if our class is so distinctive with channels and staying "home," a few gear options that recognized that vision would really help us do just that. Heck, there are 5 piece crafted bonuses going to waste because nobody even considers using them (like Ashen Grip, Torug's Pact, etc.).

I think a lot of us just want to be excited and inspired to play a templar and do templar things, ideally in some different and new ways than what we have been doing for the past year. DPS is all well and good, but many templars want to be something more than a damage dealing class.

Solariken

@Cinbri you might like this then:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/240429/eclipse-morphs-suggestion/p1

Proposed change to the base skill:

Eclipse
Surround yourself with four lightless spheres that intercept any harmful projectiles for 4 seconds. Each projectile intercepted causes a sphere to explode, dealing X Magic damage to nearby enemies. (8m range)

Proposed morphs:

Total Dark (possibly rename to Unyielding Light)
Surround yourself with four lightless spheres that intercept any harmful projectiles for 4 seconds. Each projectile intercepted causes a sphere to explode, dealing X Magic damage to nearby enemies and healing nearby allies for X.

Unstable Core
Surround yourself with four lightless spheres that intercept any harmful projectiles for 4 seconds and grants Major Evasion (20% dodge chance) for 4 seconds. Each projectile intercepted causes a sphere to explode, dealing X Magic damage to nearby enemies. While slotted, you gain Minor Expedition (10% increased movement speed) at all times.

Additional thoughts:
This suggestion gives Templars a defensive ability that is analogous to Reflective Scale but fits more with the Templar niche. It addresses some Templar survivability problems and adds some needed utility (if you troll my thread with BoL hate I will ram my javelin right up your [snip]). Total Dark might be attractive for PvE tanks and PvE/PvP healers, while Unstable Core might be attractive to stamplars and magicka jabplars.

Sallington

@Joy_Division Can you create a new thread with that post?

Mods, can you sticky it. Gina,can you print out a copy and put it on Wrobel's desk?

Lettigall

Sallington wrote: »

@Joy_Division Can you create a new thread with that post?

Mods, can you sticky it. Gina,can you print out a copy and put it on Wrobel's desk?

Wrobel just gonna use printed out copy as a toilet paper next time he goes to relieve himself!

dodgehopper_ESO

Bravo @Joy_Division !!!

I really liked what you had to say and the way in which it was said. This is what I was talking about earlier when I was telling people fighting for Templar that we need to avoid being offensive because it solves nothing and makes the problem worse. You also highlight the issues very well. My only disagreement with you is in how they treat Sun Shield. I think basing the DK/Templar shield on health was good, the problem comes with the fact they've hit this concept with a rules wrecking ball multiple times. Health Multiplier was nerfed. Battle Spirit doublenerfed our shield but simultaneously allowed Sorcerers to still get ridiculous shield sizes along with damage output/pools. On top of all that even before the nerfs Sun Shield was a lot more situational in usage because it is a reactive shield. Six seconds (really more like 5.something with animation time) is not enough to prepare for danger. In Pve the Sun Shield is 'okay' at best, and still underperforms. In Pvp its garbage.

I don't want to gush and reiterate, you said a lot of great things that need looking at.

bikerangelo

@Joy_Division

Ashtaris

What I'm wondering about is how the changes to the rez times are going to effect end game PVE content. I heal a lot of pugs and invartiably as hard as you try, someone will die once in awhile during a boss fight. When someone goes down, you only have so much time to get them back up in the fight. A lot of times you are taking damage from mobs and the boss, so often you have a very short window where you can stop your heals, throw down the rez, and get that person up before you either get hit with too much damage yourself, or another member of the team is taking a dirt nap. Even with pumping HOT's, it might not be enough while your standing there with the rez counter slowly ticking away. I depended on my Kags and Templar passives to get people back in the fight quickly. I don't PVP, and I can understand why some of the calls for the longer rez times, but I sure wish they would do it in a way that it didn't totally screw with my PVE playstyle.

Minno

@Joy_Division
Best list comprised!
I'm tempted to make a spreadsheet change log to keep track of these changes lol

bikerangelo

Ashtaris wrote: »

What I'm wondering about is how the changes to the rez times are going to effect end game PVE content. I heal a lot of pugs and invartiably as hard as you try, someone will die once in awhile during a boss fight. When someone goes down, you only have so much time to get them back up in the fight. A lot of times you are taking damage from mobs and the boss, so often you have a very short window where you can stop your heals, throw down the rez, and get that person up before you either get hit with too much damage yourself, or another member of the team is taking a dirt nap. Even with pumping HOT's, it might not be enough while your standing there with the rez counter slowly ticking away. I depended on my Kags and Templar passives to get people back in the fight quickly. I don't PVP, but I'm sure getting sick of PVP QQ totally screwing with my PVE playstyle.

That's where a pvp-exclusive ressurrection sickness would've prevented this nerf from happening, but ZOS took the easy way out.

Deltia

The amount of time and information you put into this is staggering. Let's hope this gets looked at.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Deltia wrote: »

The amount of time and information you put into this is staggering. Let's hope this gets looked at.

The sad part is, we all know it won't.

We have provided now literally hundreds of pages of suggestions and solutions for Templar problems. No one at ZOS is listening, at least not their Lead Combat Designer. He just ignores it.

TRoclodyte

Saddened, I will create a new character this week to replace my templar healer. I shall make a dragonknight healer and restart everything from the beginning, but I'll play for free.

No one deserves any of my money after screwing 2 years of commitment I've put into my templar.

nagarjunna

@Joy_Division, you rock!

I've never commented specifically on the skills and the failings and drawbacks our beloved Templar has - there are so many people better than I who have done so.

I agree with @Deltia to about the amount of work and I loved your final comment:

I think a lot of us just want to be excited and inspired to play a Templar and do Templar things, ideally in some different and new ways than what we have been doing for the past year. DPS is all well and good, but many Templars want to be something more than a damage dealing class.

I believe it comes down to not having a complete vision and road map for the class. Someone said that @Wrobel plays a Nightblade? Perhaps he should play a Templar until Dark Brotherhood to obtain a clearer picture of what the class is and does.

Islyn

Joy_Division wrote: »

What I believe are still the major problems with Templars. @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KNowak @ZOS_RichLambert @ZoS anyone.

@Soris @bikerangelo @Hymzir @timidobserver @tinythinker @david.haypreub18_ESO @dodgehopper_ESO @BalticBlues @eliisra @Zinaroth @AfkNinja @Zheg @booksmcread @nagarjunna @Cinbri @DHale @Husan @MissBizz @Chelos @Deltia @puffy99 @Essiaga @AriBoh @Sallington @Kaliki @SeptimusDova @technohic @Faulgor @Islyn @Alcast @lots of people I missed. I do not and will not claim to speak for you as these are my assessments. If I missed something point it out please. If I write something that makes sense to you, let the Devs know what is here is not a lonely voice in the wilderness.

The purpose of this post is to identify the major problems with templars, not to fix them. Put the spotlight on them and hopefully provide and impetus for ZoS to do their thing and make the class a versatile, compelling, interesting, distinctive, and fun play. I am historian, not a game designer so I am not going to pretend I have the training and experience to go beyond that and do something competently that's not my job. I am pretty good at analyzing, comparing stuff, and considering perspectives that are not my own. So, I'll just point out the stuff that isn't quite working and just a general idea where I think it needs to go.

Needs Immediate Attention

This tier represents those skills that templars are actually less effective for using and potentially damages their chances of winning.

Healing Ritual - the split second reduction in cast time does not reconcile the fundamental problem Eric Wrobel identified with this skill on ESO Live: "Cause in general the burst damage happens really quickly, like you die really fast, right? ... I hit the ability and I'm like waiting, and I'm waiting, and then they die before it goes off." This on top of the lack of mobility, the potential for interruption, and the short range.
Fix: NO time between casting and healing. Period. End of Story. Make it a HoT. Make it a channel. I don't care. Do NOT have me wait for that heal.

Radiant Aura - No spell in the game should duplicate the common and widely used tri-stat potion. I will never use one of my ten slots and my magicka to provide a redundant buff the people who need stamina are going to have in any case. Note: The Repentance morph is just fine.
Fix: Make it like function like the original spell pre 1.6, i.e, what we get is independent the already present mundane buffs we will have active. Tweak the numbers. Thematically templars providing stamina for their group is very useful function that helps distinguish us.

Sun Shield - It is totally unfair for ZoS to scale our primarily defensive ability of an attribute that its lead combat designer has admitted everyone tries to run as low as possible. This indicates ZoS is aware of the fundamental problem but is content to do nothing to address it. That it is designed to be cast in combat is also a huge disadvantage compared to other shields. It has got to be good. It's not. Unacceptable. Here are some pictures what I have to deal with when trying to defend my "house"


That's my shield. 3204.

And what exactly is that 3204 shield going to do when I have to deal with damage like this?

[

I blocked that! The shield is a woeful. And, take a look at my alleged OP breath of life. Keep telling me Templars are spamming too much healing while ignoring the damage flying around Cyrodiil.

Here's what happens when I don't block



This is a single global cooldown:



Fix: - Do not ask me to run a high health builds because the PvE content ZoS's dungeon team designed thinks I run a high magicka build. Scale the shield to magicka and increase the damage until the whole health is undesirable thing is fixed.

Bad, but not game-breakingly terrible

This tier represents those skills that are lacking with respect to other stuff in the game, but won't actually impede your chances of success.

Radial Sweep - If you are a level 45 max CP expert PvPer terrorizing Backwater Blade, this skill can serve as an excellent means of damage mitigation. Now can we please get an ultimate that has a bit more applicability? This has a range of 6 meters while lava whip and wrecking blow have 7 meters. This often misses targets in its radius (perhaps an elevation issue).
Fix: More range, reliably hitting targets. One of these morphs should do physical damage. The "tank" empowering morph should also put some sort of 8 second debuff enemies. The "damage" crescent morph looks like it may have been addressed (I'll still have to test) but it still should grant some sort of 8 second offensive buff. I will still use Dawnbreaker over the ability because the Fighter's Guild ultimate has comparable damage even to non daedra-undead.

Balanced Warrior (passive). A misnomer if there has ever been one. 1.6 made this passive obsolete. Spell damage please.

Sun Fire - The Vampire Bane morph is a good DPS skill. Everything about this ability needs work. Reflective Light did not get same duration increase. The major prophecy buff is way too short to be practical alternative to mage light.
Fix: - Please Major Prophecy to standard buff duration (20 seconds). Increase Reflective Light's duration.

Enduring Rays (passive). It still the only passive in the game that makes class abilities worse (in this case the Unstable Core morph for Eclipse). Just include the passive's benefits into the standard duration the Dawn's Wrath abilities we want to last longer and replace this with something we need: passive resource management. Because templars need to endure. Every time you cast a dawn's wrath ability, templars get X magicka and stamina. Sound familiar? It should. It was an old passive that never needed to be removed and would really help the heavy armor paladin archetype that so many who rolled this class would like to play ...

Rite of Passage . I know there are people out there that will argue with me and claim this is good or useful ultimate. All I will say is that there was once a time I was near the top of the Trials leaderboards and all my raid leaders rejected the premise that this skill was a viable alternative to healing springs + some other more useful ultimate. Also when the group I run with in PvP loses a fight, it is not because our opponents were using this skill to mitigate our damage. Until I see Hodor run both morphs of this ultimate, I will maintain my position that this is a suboptimal choice for any player looking to maximize their chance of winning.
Fix:. Again we can't move. Fine. Increase the range a bit. Roll the Remembrance morph into the base spell so the immobile Templar is actually doing something constructive for those people not getting heals (i.e. HALF a PVE raid and even more in PvP). The Practiced Incarnation morph extending the duration for this effect would be fine. Make the other morph cleanse negative effects. I also dislike the new animation as it does not as clearly define the beneficial range and effects of this ultimate. Without these changes, I will always spam healing springs when a large amount of stationary healing is required and slot Nova instead.

Light Weaver Perhaps the worst passive in the game. It does nothing to our good abilities and gives marginal increases to only our terrible ones. I don't even spend my skill points here.
Fix: Increase the Templar's armor and spell resistance while within any of her runes or auras. Let's start building that house, huh?

Uninspiring and Mediocre, but occasionally useful

Nothing about the performance of effect of these abilities gets me excited to log into Elder Scrolls and play a Templar even if they perform their function adequately.

Piercing Javelin -Appreciate the range increase, but it's just a generic CC that opponents will simply break. Fix: Debuff enemy somehow.

Spear Wall (passive) Increases block Vs. melee attacks. Historically spear walls were used as a defense against missile attacks. Just saying.

Restoring Spirit (passive) - No templar has ever forgotten the nerf to what was the class's only means of passive resource regeneration. ZoS removed what was an interesting and different means of sustain and gave templars a boring cost reduction that is inadequate compared to the other classes. So now we have not means to defend our house and no passive resource management. Buff please.

Solar Barrage (specific morph) - It's a little better than Impulse ... maybe ... but Impulse has been nerfed so it is also uninspiringly insipid. I will take Dark Flare morph every time.
Fix: Skill needs to do more than just damage.

Cleansing Ritual - Used to be a great ability that gave templars the very distinctiveness Zos seeks. Then ZoS "fixed" this. Thanks ZoS always fixes the beneficial "bugs" to our class (without compensating the loss in effectiveness) but has trouble with the ones the undermine it. I know I have to use it because of a passive, but the skill's actual functionality is now the same as the generic Alliance War Purge skill. Yawn. Boring. Meh.
Fix: It wasn't cool to just take away the defensive capability of this spell without replacing it with something else.

Has potential but is undermined

Toppling Charge - What more can I say that hasn't been said? The most annoying bug associated with this ability is when it starts and you hear the sound effect of the spell but then cancels. I believe this is a NEW bug that did not happen when our main complaints were limited to the cooldown and getting stuck in the charge animation. For what it's worth, I dont get stuck in charges much anymore (thank you very much, I will acknowledge the improvement here), but this happens every single night I play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_a9gKVP3UE

Spear Shards - Does not do enough damage considering the long aim and travel time. We still remember the double nerf to this ability during the IC incremental patches. An AoE that places only 1 debuff is a puzzling mechanic ... especially when 3 seems to be the common number out there (cf. talons, fear).
Fix: Slow speed needs to be strong damage. Make CC component to 3 targets for consistency.

Dark Flare - I don't mind and accept the long travel time because I think it is now the hardest hitting spell in the game. I know that first cast is longer than the 1.1 second tooltip time and that will get a templar killed in PvP. We are mad because stuff like this never gets fixed but when dodge-roller complains about getting hit by toppling charge, that just has to get priority. Fix: 1.1 second cast time.

Backlash - This skill is good in theory but does not scale with spell damage (only max magicka), which turns it into a DPS loss for players who get a lot of spellpower bonuses (such as from spell power cure, major sorcery, Molag Kena, etc). Also the recent changes to the patch makes it noticeably more difficult for a single player to reach the damage cap, particularly in Cyrodiil where there is already a 50% reduction.
Fix: Either the secondary utility function (heal, armor debuff) needs to be more potent or this needs to scale with spell damage.

Rune Focus - A net nerf. On Live, if I put this down and leave, I get the resistance buffs for 8 seconds and the magicka regen for like 20. What ZoS wants to do is make it so both of these last 8 seconds after I leave. Here is the other problem with the skill. ZoS is against homogenization right? OK...why is it that the templar's buff is the same as the sorcerer and NB buff when the templar's is so much more restrictive? This ability does not create a "house" that is somehow sturdier, more resilient, or more advantageous than the sorcerer's "house" (which can move) or the NB's house (which they get while doing damage).
Fix: No idea. ESO requires mobility and ZoS wants templars to stand in one spot. For a start, I would NOT penalize a templar for leaving the Rune. All classes keep their buffs no matter where they go and the same should be for Templars. Instead, incentivize us to stay in that Rune by offering more than generic bonuses and maybe debuff the enemies trying to break in and enter it?

Note: one-third of our class abilities fall into this category!

Abilities worthy of comparison with other classes

Puncturing strikes - It's good but still flawed. Appreciate the snare change but that's still a nerf; this stopped wrecking blow spammers and it won't do that anymore which can be potentially significant. The snare should be on the first hit since the ability locks us into place, not on the last. @Nifty2g says this still can't crit heal and I trust his testing. I still hate the 5% healing nerf and I am piqued to be told it's not a nerf. Magicka templars who charge follow up with this skill and will be getting healed for less. It's another indication to me that ZoS's combat team does not fully grasp how templars try to compete in a PvP environment. Sorry if that sounds mean, but I don't know how else I could interpret ZoS's response to the healing nerf.
Fix: Heals for 40% of damage done; heal can crit; Snare applied on first hit; ability interrupts casters/channels.

Nova - Our only good ultimate. I still don't know why an ally has to be within 3.5 meters of the center to activate the synergy. If a Nova is not crushed, it's a waste of 250 ultimate. It's too expensive.
Fix: Synergy is given priority and can be activate by an ally standing anywhere in Nova. Reduce cost (and DK standard).

Radiant Destruction - Appreciate the recognition that channels should not be dodged. I still dislike ZoS's practice of making its customers play with broken abilities for 6 months. Fix: Upon entering Cyrodiil for the first time, please force new players to go through a "here is how you counter RD" tutorial that demonstrates how bashing, using interrupt skills, cleansing, cloaking, healing, shielding, harness magickaing, moving out of range/LOS, out DPSing the attacking templar, CCing the templar, and other various means can defeat a templar using RD.

Rushed Ceremony - I'm sorry but this skill is overrated. I get it, other classes hate it. But everything a NB says about Cloak, everything sorcerers say about Hardened Ward/streak, and everything DKs says about Reflective Scales applies to Rushed Ceremony when considering how strong it is. Since their signature skills also got nerfed, I will bite my tongue with regards to the blanket and unnecessary nerf to Breath of Life. And it left a sour taste in my mouth that our signature skill was just nerfed without any other consideration/adjustment to other apsects of the spell such as cost/adding non-healing functionality/etc. I still think is it beholden upon ZoS to provide us with these other viable healing options we are suppose to use in class. This means rethinking the get-your-allies-killed Healing Ritual spell and making Rite of Passage feel like I'm doing something more worthy of an ultimate than giving 6 people a HoT.

That's every Templar ability except one that deserves its own special tier

I know ZoS is trying, but it gets worse with every patch

Eclipse - This ability deserves an entire thread of its own. I'll write something pithy tomorrow after class. The short of it is that this spell is objectively worse now that it was before the IC update, a time when it was already uninspiring since many Templars preferred the sword & shield reflect to their own class skill. Yet it has gotten nerfed and worse. Inexplicable.

**********************

Where do Templars stand in the grand scheme of things?

There are some things that are better. As much as we have critiqued and complained, a templar's DPS is unquestionably better and easier to put on target. The more offensively minded templars in PvP are probably going to prefer the Thieves' Guild update than what's on Live. And I know the mending change will make things better for Stamplars (that's all they getting though). I have talked with some templars that are legitimately excited. This should not be ignored. Some good work here ZoS.

However, it is difficult to feel that Templars are on the whole better or more versatile or more interesting to play in the next update.

I think it's 100% clear the class's ability to sustain/mitigate/defend its "house" is absolutely weaker. ZoS can claim the capacity to purify meteors was a "bugfix," that still does not change the fact that a key defensive aspect templars use on Live is being removed without compensation. ZoS can claim the major mending makes up for the healing nerfs, but as someone who doesn't rely on a resto staff to heal in PvP and who uses puncturing sweeps after charging opponents, this isn't lemonade ZoS is selling, it's a 5% healing reduction lemon. More wasted time and mana laying down Runes just to match what we have on Live right now. Eclipse is still somehow restricted to a single target and the defensive capabilities of it on the PTS is an unquestionably a net loss. As it was, a huge critique of the 1.6 change was that templars could not stand their ground adequately to justify the class's lack of mobility. I know about the minor protection addition to Rune, but most templars opt for the magicka recovery because ZoS gives us no resource management. Don't get me started on the 1% increase to my woeful shield to the morph I don't even use. None of this even considers the breath of life nerf.

These changes seem to be pushing templars into a more offensive, glass-cannon approach which is ... puzzling given that probably is not the reason why many players decided to role a templar. I understand that lack of templar DPS has been source of templar agitation (mostly from before 1.6), but I don't think what templars wanted was to be a re-skinned nightblade without mobility or cloak. I mean ZoS took away our best defensive tool in blinding flashes and gave us our best DPS tool in Radiant Destruction. I love RD as it allows me as a healer to better contribute to my dungeon-delving team with some actual and meaningful DPS, but why couldn't this have replaced Sun Fire or Healing Ritual?

There is also a loss of distinctiveness which, again, is puzzling given Eric's recent stated desire to ensure classes were different and has their own identities. People claimed we heal and we had a class tree solely devoted to that. Then some people complained that we healed too much and we rez too fast. Now that got nerfed, sorcerers have pets that heal more than our signature skill and yet somehow we are still stuck we a tree that is devoted to healing even though two of the skills are terrible and its ultimate not used. OK, I guess the anti-healers are happy ... but where does that leave us? What is our place? Why does stuff just get taken away without any recompense? Maybe sorcerers didn't like I could purify their crystal frags. But it was something that made us special and they still were a stronger class than us. Are we now just supposed to be excited for being generic DPS with one less ability tree than the other classes? I still have no mobility, still overly restrictive resource management, still lack the tools to defend my "house," now can't heal as well as I used to. I guess I am supposed to just Jesus Beam all of you.

Most of all, the 40+ pages of disappointment stem from unfulfilled expectations and changes that are just baffling to those of us who play this class everyday. I don't know why I was under the impression this patch was devoted to address balance. I think I heard it on ESO Live at some point. Or maybe because it's been a year since I've been stuck with so many clumsy and inefficient skills and I just assumed it's been long enough. We did our part. We have told ZoS time and time again, with a bizarre and atypical degree of consensus I have never seen in over 30 years of playing RPGs, just how counterproductive many of the templar mechanics are. To see so many of these clear and insightful explanations not heeded or given token adjustments is a huge let down.

What bothers me most about these patch notes is perception of apathy that went behind them. No doubt this is a false impression. But perception trumps reality. Look at the 5% reduction to the healing for puncturing sweeps. It apparently would be inconceivable, inexplicable, incredulous, incredible, implausible, and impossible for Zos to say: "You know what, templars are kind of hurting with their overall tankiness and it's been a common complaint about the class. The change to the major mending passive could potentially increase those sweep heals by a bit under certain conditions. It might make sense to leave that value at 40% to reward templars who are trying to defend their 'house' and besides, we still can't figure out how to get those heals to crit." Just had to put that nerf in there! Or with Healing Ritual. How can I possibly come to a different conclusion that Zos places so little value in our feedback when with a unanimous voice we have said the cast-time kills the spell and yet in the patch notes we see it that the cast time is still there?

I really really really want to believe that Zos's combat team loves templars and that ZoS listens to the templar community and to be perfectly clear I am sure ZoS does, but ... wow we've been stuck with that awful Radiant Aura spell and an inadequate shield for so long, trust me it's not easy. I am tired of seeing our sole remaining only sometimes useful defensive spell eclipse get nerfed every single update. Tired of seeing only beneficial bugs to our class get fixed without the only that plagued it or undermine it not get fixed. Tired of having so many wonky or useless skills diluting our build choices. The constant and persistent nerfs and "fixes" to the little things my class can do that others cannot is driving me nuts. This thread would be just 10 pages long if it were easy for templar players to believe that the other classes were not somehow loved more equally than their own.

I know Zos is trying. I know ZoS cares. I know what is on ZoS's plate and what they would like to do exceeds its manpower/resources. I'm not expecting perfection. I can accept nerfs for the betterment of the game as a whole. But for the love of the Eight Divines, let us help you. Most of this feedback and the stuff we have suggested does have the game's best interest at heart. I know we get hysterical at times, too easily allow our frustrations to overdramatize things we say, and our passions for the class make us overly defensive and sensitive to nerfs and negative adjustments. Besides, you got to admit some of it is rather amusing We wouldn't be templars if we just sat down quietly and meekly said, "OK" when our most defining skill gets nerfed. Trust us when we say we don't use certain skills. Throw us a bone once in a while when you announce on the patch notes that one of our defining features is getting "fixed" or "adjusted." Give us a reason to be excited to do something other than a few more DPS.

I really think it would be a good idea for ZoS to throw some of its more promising ideas for the changes that are supposed to be coming for the Dark Brotherhood on incremental patches. Let us actually see how ZoS's vision shapes up and let us help guide you to a better product. I know Zos says that approach is not as efficient, but efficiency is a really tough selling point when Healing Ritual, Radiant Aura, Rite of Passage, etc., have been so bad for so long. We're just looking for inspiration here. Something tangible to grasp on and say to ourselves, "Looks like ZoS has a legit plan for templars." If you just threw one change to one of our meh skills that a non DPS glass cannon templar would be genuinely excited to try out, it would go a long way. And if our class is so distinctive with channels and staying "home," a few gear options that recognized that vision would really help us do just that. Heck, there are 5 piece crafted bonuses going to waste because nobody even considers using them (like Ashen Grip, Torug's Pact, etc.).

I think a lot of us just want to be excited and inspired to play a templar and do templar things, ideally in some different and new ways than what we have been doing for the past year. DPS is all well and good, but many templars want to be something more than a damage dealing class.

I can agree to all this. I also have been personally careful to remind people the BoL nerf itself is not the issue itself. It's the Sticky Outy Sore Thumb that was the last straw in a whole murder of issues.

SeptimusDova

@Joy_Division

That my friend is a perfect thesis on the issues. Combine that with Cinbri's post and submit to Wrolag Bal.
May the light shine on you always